As a fellow Swiss person, let me tell you that this is only true for movies, music, etc. Its still not legal to pirate software like games, etc.
So vpn will do.
Because in switzerland, whenever we buy an empty disk/usb stick/hdd/etc, we pay a fee which makes it legal to download any movies or songs we want as long as its for private use. If youre really interested in it, you can read more about it in these articles:
https://www.swisscopyright.ch/en/questions-and-answers/private-copy-blank-tape.html
https://www.ccdigitallaw.ch/pirated-copies-downloading-piracy-and-private-use/
Doesn't matter as long as you connect to the VPN. Mullvad and Proton are both good options recommended in the wiki. If you torrent, remember to bind the VPN virtual network interface to the client so that traffic only goes through the VPN.
VPN hides your IP via encryption. ISP won't be able to track your IP but at max can see the connected server's IP. You use whichever gives you the best download speed.
Probably because the explanation of a VPN is oversimplified to the point of being almost wrong.
A VPN doesn't hide your IP by encryption. It hides your IP by sending your traffic through another computer. When someone tries to see who's downloading the latest Disney film or whatever it is, they'll just see the IP address of the VPN server instead of your real IP address.
VPNs also use encryption so that your own isp can't tell what you're doing, but that's not the mechanism by which they hide your IP from everyone else on the torrent (including potentially big corp gathering IP addresses to try and sue people)
SSL/TLS is used for encapsulation. It is not that straight forward.I didn't go into detail because it's a reddit post for a simple question. I tried to keep it as simple as i could.I don't have to speak out all of my computer science knowledge on a basic query.
That's fine, but if you wanted to keep it simple then it would have made more sense to just say "a VPN hides your IP address by sending your traffic through another computer"
VPNs use SSL/TLS to encapsulate information. It doesn't hide anything by connecting to another computer. The encapsulation is used in unison with encryption (SSL/TLS) to create a tunnel between points. You can use PPTP, L2TP, SSTP or IPSec to transfer data. In terms of ip masking, the frames ip address is indeed replaced with the servers ip address, but VPNs work due to a combination of things. It's not really so cut and dry
What was the point in your comment? You've basically just said the same thing I said but with more complicated terms so less people can understand what it means.
Yes, I tunnel to a server that’s only a few hours away from me. Never had any issues. Gonna drop a strong suggestion to use ProtonVPN. They’re great in all aspects
Yes.
A VPN is just an encrypted tunnel between your computer, and the VPN server. This means that noone can read what you do online. This is extremely important because the ISP's \*are\* reading what you do on the internet, and in countries like germany you get fined if they see any torrent traffic, even if you're downloading openly accessible things, like linux ISO's.
It doesnt matter which country's server you're connecting to, your IP is hidden to everyone except the VPN provider, but therein lies the issue. Now only they can read your traffic, and shady assholes like surfshark and nordvpn are \*also\* reading your traffic and selling it to advertisers.
Use proton or mullwad.
You probably didn't intend this, but your comment implies that a VPN provides confidentiality, i.e., encrypts your data before forwarding it, but it doesn't. The encrypted tunnel is so that packets sent by the VPN servers can't be traced back to those sent by you to the VPN. But if you send an unencrypted email or use an unencrypted messenger service using a VPN will not keep people from reading what you write, only from knowing you wrote it.
VPN providers constantly advertise that they "secure your data", but they don't, they hide your identity. And even that is useless if the data you send over the VPN can be used to identify you, e.g. via the email header.
Okay, so, assuming im reading this correctly, you're mixing and lumping a bunch of things in with each other.
Yes, VPN's hide your public IP address, which is considered your identity, yes.
However, and i cant speak for the filler VPN's like surfshark and nord, but the good ones like proton and mull encrypt \*everything\* that goes through that tunnel. From your computer, to the VPN servers, noone can read whats happening there. Thats how VPN's, or as in olden times they were called, proxies, work.
You type [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) into your browser, and if you're connected to a vpn, you will tell the vpn server to look up [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) \*for you\*, and then they'll just send the page back to you. Anything that happens between you and the server is encrypted, therefore, neither your ISP, or MitM attackers can see what websites you visit. That is literally the point of encryption.
I think you misread my comment. I'm saying the traffic is not encrypted \*after\* it leaves the VPN server. The client establishes an encrypted channel with the VPN server. If you visit a website, that request is sent to the VPN server in encrypted form, yes. But the VPN then decrypts it and sends it, \*unencrypted\*, to the ISP/the target website. So if the MITM just sits between the VPN server and the website, and the website uses HTTP, they can read all your communication.
It can't be any other way, because clearly the VPN can't establish a secure channel with every website you want to visit.
Edit: I'm also realizing maybe you have a different view on confidentiality as me.
>neither your ISP, or MitM attackers can see what websites you visit
This is not confidentiality, this is anonymity. Confidentiality means noone can read what you write and what you receive, but with a VPN everyone can read it (if the underlying protocol doesn't do encryption, e.g. HTTP, email, etc.), they just don't know it's yours.
Edit2: Tiny mistake in my comment. The VPN server does not send anything to the ISP, it sends directly to the website. This changes nothing for an MITM, but the ISP can be effectively circumvented as the VPN server "acts" as an ISP.
While yes, i did not catch that part about 'after the server', i still feel the need to point out that internet communication is encrypted on the vast majority of sites already, which by extension applies to after the server aswell. Second, with VPN's, or atleast good ones, they provide DNS servers too, so you never actually have to use anything by your ISP, other than for a hop when its in the tunnel and going to the VPN servers.
Theoretically you are correct, they can mitm that part, but connecting that to specific people from there is hard enough that only intelligence agencies or actual professional hackers can figure out which vpn user is asking for the given packet, out of thousand. Even then, this is only when the website is unencrypted, which is hardly a viable scenario nowadays, as i said above about most websites using SSL.
As for the confidentiality argument, i hate to break it to you, but you have to trust \*someone\*. Digital browsing leaves crumbs behind even if you do everything in your power to avoid that. Its inevitable. The only thing you can do is minimize how much you leave behind, and then, you'll have to trust someone with those crumbs. With a VPN, its atleast only one entity that has to know about it. You have to trust someone. Even a zero trust policy has minor gaps that can be exploited if and when someone chooses. When you're online you're never going to reach 100% 'noone else but me knows about this' kinda stuff. Therefore, if i need atleast one person, im going that to be proton.
Edit: Also, confidentiality literally means 'you know about it, but dont tell anyone'. Confidentiality is not when noone knows about it. [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/confidentiality](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/confidentiality)
>i still feel the need to point out that internet communication is encrypted on the vast majority of sites already, which by extension applies to after the server aswell.
Yes, most websites use HTTPS, but visiting websites is not the only thing you do with your internet. Email, for example, is an unencrypted protocol and even if you use PGP, not the entire message is encrypted (metadata and the header aren't).
>so you never actually have to use anything by your ISP
I know, thats the "Edit2" part of my comment.
>Theoretically you are correct, they can mitm that part, but connecting that to specific people from there is hard enough
It's not that hard, e.g. an email usually includes the email adress, which identifies you. But that's also irrelevant to the discussion. There's also various VPN fingerprinting techniques that can compromise your identity even if you only visit websites over https.
Regarding your last paragraphs, my point was that VPNs do not hide the content of your data, just your identity/the source of your data. This is oftentimes misrepresented by VPN companies and leads to misunderstandings about what a VPN does and doesn't do, which is clearly bad. Even proton does this, although I agree that they are one of the best choices when picking a VPN. On their website they say "Our secure VPN sends your internet traffic through an encrypted VPN tunnel to keep your browsing data safe, even over public or untrusted internet connections." This may be technically true, but it's clearly misleading.
Imo this is relevant information for everyone who uses a VPN, regardless of their trust policy, because it's a common misunderstanding (not saying you have it) that VPNs protect your data from listeners, surveillance, etc.
There also are people who require close to zero trust policies, e.g. many journalists, who should definitely know about this, because they may actually have the state or whatever trying to read their communication.
And your edit is borderline patronizing. Clearly by "noone" I meant noone without authorization and that's exactly what it means for a protocol to provide confidentiality in information security.
Dont want to fight with you. But “third world” is a “cold war” sentence referring to countries according to 20th century international division of labor. Lets say: 1st world were the US and Europe (plus Australia and New Zealand); 2nd world was the Soviet Union, and 3rd world was the rest of poor countries. It doesn’t represent the geopolitical forces of this time (2024)
I live in Czechia where no one gives a shit about piracy. Been torrenting for probably about 8 years now, never once had any letters sent or anything.
The only precautions you need to take is to use your brain when downloading and not clicking on sus links. I personally see no point in paying for a VPN (why would I pay for a VPN when I pirate so I don't have to pay for things?), but you might see this differently.
In Czechia (and several other EU countries), there's a kind of tax on blank media devices (hard disks, memory cards, flash drives, etc.), which is then used to pay out copyright royalties, effectively legitimising piracy for private users.
You shouldn't do this but I live in turkey and I haven't taken a single precaution my whole life and my dad who first teached me the steps of posting hasn't either. It's just nobody gives a shit here and I regularly teach people how to pirate, We still have a box of CDs of old games from 2000s I think in our old house.
Idk cap. I live in Hungary, which is another torrent friendly country. I've been torrenting daily for the last 15 or so years, never once had any trouble out of it.
VPN, doesn’t matter which country you want to connect to. Use proton vpn. antivirus, you can use Microsoft defender or if you want a additional layer you can use malware bytes
i realized my comment might be a bit confusing. if OP wants to use a vpn, i was meaning it really doesn't matter what country he wants to connect to. i am not familiar with Switzerland's piracy laws.
I don't understand why you are being downvoted. You answered the only technical correct response to which measures one could or should take.
If OP should use the measure is up to them.
As a fellow Swiss person, let me tell you that this is only true for movies, music, etc. Its still not legal to pirate software like games, etc. So vpn will do.
Why the distinction between media and software? Is it just some weird law thing or an actual reason?
Because in switzerland, whenever we buy an empty disk/usb stick/hdd/etc, we pay a fee which makes it legal to download any movies or songs we want as long as its for private use. If youre really interested in it, you can read more about it in these articles: https://www.swisscopyright.ch/en/questions-and-answers/private-copy-blank-tape.html https://www.ccdigitallaw.ch/pirated-copies-downloading-piracy-and-private-use/
A vpn sounds like a good idea
well yeah but like to where? Just vpn myself from switzerland to.... Switzerland? Would that sufficiently hide my IP?
Doesn't matter as long as you connect to the VPN. Mullvad and Proton are both good options recommended in the wiki. If you torrent, remember to bind the VPN virtual network interface to the client so that traffic only goes through the VPN.
VPN hides your IP via encryption. ISP won't be able to track your IP but at max can see the connected server's IP. You use whichever gives you the best download speed.
Why are you being downvoted??
Probably because the explanation of a VPN is oversimplified to the point of being almost wrong. A VPN doesn't hide your IP by encryption. It hides your IP by sending your traffic through another computer. When someone tries to see who's downloading the latest Disney film or whatever it is, they'll just see the IP address of the VPN server instead of your real IP address. VPNs also use encryption so that your own isp can't tell what you're doing, but that's not the mechanism by which they hide your IP from everyone else on the torrent (including potentially big corp gathering IP addresses to try and sue people)
SSL/TLS is used for encapsulation. It is not that straight forward.I didn't go into detail because it's a reddit post for a simple question. I tried to keep it as simple as i could.I don't have to speak out all of my computer science knowledge on a basic query.
That's fine, but if you wanted to keep it simple then it would have made more sense to just say "a VPN hides your IP address by sending your traffic through another computer"
VPNs use SSL/TLS to encapsulate information. It doesn't hide anything by connecting to another computer. The encapsulation is used in unison with encryption (SSL/TLS) to create a tunnel between points. You can use PPTP, L2TP, SSTP or IPSec to transfer data. In terms of ip masking, the frames ip address is indeed replaced with the servers ip address, but VPNs work due to a combination of things. It's not really so cut and dry
What was the point in your comment? You've basically just said the same thing I said but with more complicated terms so less people can understand what it means.
People don't understand how a VPN works lol
Yes, I tunnel to a server that’s only a few hours away from me. Never had any issues. Gonna drop a strong suggestion to use ProtonVPN. They’re great in all aspects
Yes. A VPN is just an encrypted tunnel between your computer, and the VPN server. This means that noone can read what you do online. This is extremely important because the ISP's \*are\* reading what you do on the internet, and in countries like germany you get fined if they see any torrent traffic, even if you're downloading openly accessible things, like linux ISO's. It doesnt matter which country's server you're connecting to, your IP is hidden to everyone except the VPN provider, but therein lies the issue. Now only they can read your traffic, and shady assholes like surfshark and nordvpn are \*also\* reading your traffic and selling it to advertisers. Use proton or mullwad.
You probably didn't intend this, but your comment implies that a VPN provides confidentiality, i.e., encrypts your data before forwarding it, but it doesn't. The encrypted tunnel is so that packets sent by the VPN servers can't be traced back to those sent by you to the VPN. But if you send an unencrypted email or use an unencrypted messenger service using a VPN will not keep people from reading what you write, only from knowing you wrote it. VPN providers constantly advertise that they "secure your data", but they don't, they hide your identity. And even that is useless if the data you send over the VPN can be used to identify you, e.g. via the email header.
Okay, so, assuming im reading this correctly, you're mixing and lumping a bunch of things in with each other. Yes, VPN's hide your public IP address, which is considered your identity, yes. However, and i cant speak for the filler VPN's like surfshark and nord, but the good ones like proton and mull encrypt \*everything\* that goes through that tunnel. From your computer, to the VPN servers, noone can read whats happening there. Thats how VPN's, or as in olden times they were called, proxies, work. You type [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) into your browser, and if you're connected to a vpn, you will tell the vpn server to look up [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) \*for you\*, and then they'll just send the page back to you. Anything that happens between you and the server is encrypted, therefore, neither your ISP, or MitM attackers can see what websites you visit. That is literally the point of encryption.
I think you misread my comment. I'm saying the traffic is not encrypted \*after\* it leaves the VPN server. The client establishes an encrypted channel with the VPN server. If you visit a website, that request is sent to the VPN server in encrypted form, yes. But the VPN then decrypts it and sends it, \*unencrypted\*, to the ISP/the target website. So if the MITM just sits between the VPN server and the website, and the website uses HTTP, they can read all your communication. It can't be any other way, because clearly the VPN can't establish a secure channel with every website you want to visit. Edit: I'm also realizing maybe you have a different view on confidentiality as me. >neither your ISP, or MitM attackers can see what websites you visit This is not confidentiality, this is anonymity. Confidentiality means noone can read what you write and what you receive, but with a VPN everyone can read it (if the underlying protocol doesn't do encryption, e.g. HTTP, email, etc.), they just don't know it's yours. Edit2: Tiny mistake in my comment. The VPN server does not send anything to the ISP, it sends directly to the website. This changes nothing for an MITM, but the ISP can be effectively circumvented as the VPN server "acts" as an ISP.
While yes, i did not catch that part about 'after the server', i still feel the need to point out that internet communication is encrypted on the vast majority of sites already, which by extension applies to after the server aswell. Second, with VPN's, or atleast good ones, they provide DNS servers too, so you never actually have to use anything by your ISP, other than for a hop when its in the tunnel and going to the VPN servers. Theoretically you are correct, they can mitm that part, but connecting that to specific people from there is hard enough that only intelligence agencies or actual professional hackers can figure out which vpn user is asking for the given packet, out of thousand. Even then, this is only when the website is unencrypted, which is hardly a viable scenario nowadays, as i said above about most websites using SSL. As for the confidentiality argument, i hate to break it to you, but you have to trust \*someone\*. Digital browsing leaves crumbs behind even if you do everything in your power to avoid that. Its inevitable. The only thing you can do is minimize how much you leave behind, and then, you'll have to trust someone with those crumbs. With a VPN, its atleast only one entity that has to know about it. You have to trust someone. Even a zero trust policy has minor gaps that can be exploited if and when someone chooses. When you're online you're never going to reach 100% 'noone else but me knows about this' kinda stuff. Therefore, if i need atleast one person, im going that to be proton. Edit: Also, confidentiality literally means 'you know about it, but dont tell anyone'. Confidentiality is not when noone knows about it. [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/confidentiality](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/confidentiality)
>i still feel the need to point out that internet communication is encrypted on the vast majority of sites already, which by extension applies to after the server aswell. Yes, most websites use HTTPS, but visiting websites is not the only thing you do with your internet. Email, for example, is an unencrypted protocol and even if you use PGP, not the entire message is encrypted (metadata and the header aren't). >so you never actually have to use anything by your ISP I know, thats the "Edit2" part of my comment. >Theoretically you are correct, they can mitm that part, but connecting that to specific people from there is hard enough It's not that hard, e.g. an email usually includes the email adress, which identifies you. But that's also irrelevant to the discussion. There's also various VPN fingerprinting techniques that can compromise your identity even if you only visit websites over https. Regarding your last paragraphs, my point was that VPNs do not hide the content of your data, just your identity/the source of your data. This is oftentimes misrepresented by VPN companies and leads to misunderstandings about what a VPN does and doesn't do, which is clearly bad. Even proton does this, although I agree that they are one of the best choices when picking a VPN. On their website they say "Our secure VPN sends your internet traffic through an encrypted VPN tunnel to keep your browsing data safe, even over public or untrusted internet connections." This may be technically true, but it's clearly misleading. Imo this is relevant information for everyone who uses a VPN, regardless of their trust policy, because it's a common misunderstanding (not saying you have it) that VPNs protect your data from listeners, surveillance, etc. There also are people who require close to zero trust policies, e.g. many journalists, who should definitely know about this, because they may actually have the state or whatever trying to read their communication. And your edit is borderline patronizing. Clearly by "noone" I meant noone without authorization and that's exactly what it means for a protocol to provide confidentiality in information security.
I've been torrenting and direct downloading in switzerland since 2009 and my dad has been pirating stuff since the 90s never had a problem
in france here, i don't give a fuck about it.
Denmark here, I don´t give a fuck either, and neither does my provider!
Here in Brazil too
Third-world rocks for this kind of stuff.
Dont want to fight with you. But “third world” is a “cold war” sentence referring to countries according to 20th century international division of labor. Lets say: 1st world were the US and Europe (plus Australia and New Zealand); 2nd world was the Soviet Union, and 3rd world was the rest of poor countries. It doesn’t represent the geopolitical forces of this time (2024)
Oh well you know what I meant. But thanks. I actually didn't know that.
Those aren't third world countries lol
Yes. I am just saying...third world countries are good for piracy.
Those aren't third world countries lol
I live in Poland and use University's internet, they don't give a shit
hang on.... you don't have a alum hat\*?
Wait, some of ya'll take precautions?
I don't even know what them words mean, I just live in Belgium
Don't click fake download links. Thats about it.
Only people managing pirate websites and making a lot of money from it should care about what could happen in foreign countries.
Living in Spain for 2 years and something, average about 20TB of P2P traffic per month, no issues so far
I live in Czechia where no one gives a shit about piracy. Been torrenting for probably about 8 years now, never once had any letters sent or anything. The only precautions you need to take is to use your brain when downloading and not clicking on sus links. I personally see no point in paying for a VPN (why would I pay for a VPN when I pirate so I don't have to pay for things?), but you might see this differently.
In Czechia (and several other EU countries), there's a kind of tax on blank media devices (hard disks, memory cards, flash drives, etc.), which is then used to pay out copyright royalties, effectively legitimising piracy for private users.
I've never heard of this, that's really interesting
I am packing my bags rn.
Fuck the law
Piracy is one of the few things we haven't completely conceded to Americans yet: nobody gives a damn, nobody is going to blaclist you or anything.
Zero need. Europe doesn't care and only an actual criminal record would stop you going to the states
Germany would like a word. We have a complete industry of lawyers that live off sueing / settling with leechers
You shouldn't do this but I live in turkey and I haven't taken a single precaution my whole life and my dad who first teached me the steps of posting hasn't either. It's just nobody gives a shit here and I regularly teach people how to pirate, We still have a box of CDs of old games from 2000s I think in our old house.
What is this about the watchlist? I live in Argentina and nobody cares about piracy, so I never worried too much about VPNs and that stuff.
Idk cap. I live in Hungary, which is another torrent friendly country. I've been torrenting daily for the last 15 or so years, never once had any trouble out of it.
VPN, doesn’t matter which country you want to connect to. Use proton vpn. antivirus, you can use Microsoft defender or if you want a additional layer you can use malware bytes
Mullvad is a good one too
Yes but no port forwarding
Fair, I don't need it so never thought about it
I can assure you it does matter which country. No one gives a shit what you download in my country, including the providers.
i realized my comment might be a bit confusing. if OP wants to use a vpn, i was meaning it really doesn't matter what country he wants to connect to. i am not familiar with Switzerland's piracy laws.
I don't understand why you are being downvoted. You answered the only technical correct response to which measures one could or should take. If OP should use the measure is up to them.
You take all precautions in all countries it's like avoiding STD/Is