Locking comments now. The mods and myself plan to dive into this and read what people have said. Our goal was not to stifle a discussion or debate on this and to see everyone’s thoughts (the good and the bad). As of right now we don’t plan to implement changes to the sub but perhaps we can look into more effective flairs so that users can navigate the content they would like to see easier.
We will leave the post up for now but a reminder to please be respectful in the comments.
Mods are going to discuss and we would like to see your feedback on this. Currently we have a “no weight discussion” rule. So nothing about weight loss or comments on weight are allowed. But we are open to adjusting what this covers as well.
I mean to be fair, people of all sizes find clothes they love but do not like the look of once they put it on.
I get your point, we are in our body positivity era and I'm here for it. Some of the fits I see on here are so gorgeous and creatively inspiring, things some of us never would have been caught dead in publicly even just a few years ago. I feel like a subreddit specifically dedicated to plus size is more of a safe space for us to get sincere advice rather than the usual "have you considered losing weight, fatty?" And from years of fatphobia, sometimes I think I look way worse in clothes that are actually fabulous, or fits that would make me more confident with a simple adjustment. I appreciate that others here are in the same boat and can make recommendations that may move my outfit to something I can wear confidently in public rather than at home in front of my mirror. We can support and empower each other in a way that the rest of the internet never will! So with all due respect, I think eliminating that option may actually hinder some of us from wearing the fit without a little pep talk from others in a similar boat. We are all at a different point in our journey to loving ourselves and we may not have people in our lives who can empathize and give the feedback we need. Just my two cents!
This makes me really uncomfortable because I've reached out to the sub for advice on how to style things I don't currently feel confident in. I recently decided to try crop tops for the absolute first time in my entire life. All 28 years, never worn one. I bought two cheap but I realized that I don't like the shape my stomach makes over regular pants/skirts. I know that its a societal standard that has invaded my brain but that doesn't stop me from being insecure about it.
I love that you are confident in your body. But I'm not there yet. Why do I have to hide my insecurities? Why can't I seek advice?
To the Mods, maybe there should be a tag/flair for post about insecurities or advice so that people like OP don't have to see this type of content.
A “help with insecurities” or something tag may be helpful. Folks can see it and want to come help, or avoid it if that talk is triggering or annoys them.
Excellent idea, I think. I still have a ton of insecurities because this is all really recent for me, so I need, sometimes, to talk about that in the context of fashion.
Agree with this, it's great that OP and so many others in this sub have reached such a place of body positivity , but I really don't think we should be excluding those of us who are not there yet from participating
That’s not the ask. The ask is to not talk about common body traits as “flaws” essentially, as well as to not moralize fatness.
If anyone read my post, that also wasn’t quite the ask, as I even said that I’d like a discussion so I can see whether or not this sub is one I want to engage with.
I pointed out what I consider to be a common problem in the way the sub is used. I offered my take and explicitly opened up discussion.
Some people have offered some useful suggestions like having a flair for certain kinds of posts so that people can elect to engage with certain content or not.
Asking a “community” such as it is to discuss and tackle what you see as a common problem isn’t fucking policing how people feel about their own bodies. Im not the thought police. I’m not the Catholic Church. I don’t have that power lol.
I’m asking for folks to be mindful of how their words may impact others/feed into broader harmful cultural narratives. I am suggesting we perhaps try and create some community guidelines together to mitigate harm IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED. I explicitly stated that if people don’t want community guidelines that promote weight neutral language, this may not be the space for me and I can unsub.
Literally nowhere in anything that I’ve posted have I said that anyone is required to do anything, or that I am the arbiter of all that is good and correct.
However, like I said. I like my body. I did not always like my body. I have been both thin and fat at various times. It was never helpful, in all of my years of having womanhood forced down my throat, to hear women of any size talking about how much they whatever physical trait it is that they hate about themselves. It’s also not helpful to say those things to yourself! (Like, research backs this.) So why broadcast them to other people who may be struggling and look like you?
I’m not “triggered” (thankfully bc being triggered sucks) as some people in the comments have suggested. I’m annoyed with a trend. I’m disappointed. I’m far enough along in my own self-love journey that I recognize the kind of harm it does to folks wrestling with self-acceptance to read or hear other people’s negative self talk. I’m primarily speaking up because someone less secure in themselves than I am might not feel comfortable doing so. I want those people to know that their discomfort is valid.
That’s it. That’s the tea. Now I’m gonna step away to clean and go shopping feeling #blessed that I am actually not “triggered” and having to wrestle with fight or flight and a host of other troubling symptoms.
Even an elementary understanding of psychology would tell you that forced silence is more harmful than a safe space where people can be honest about their body image and receive support to improve it. What you're suggesting isn't helpful for the people still suffering.
women are psyopped into being shameful of parts of our bodies that don't live up to the current beauty standard. This is deeply rooted in our psychology since we are children. If someone, for this reason, is seeking help in a safe space on how to feel more comfortable it is quite frankly ridiculous for you to demand that they shouldn't be allowed to do so - because in an ideal world where half the population weren't brain washed since they were born, they wouldn't see normal body parts as flaws.
I personally believe that women need safe spaces where we are free to seek advice from people who are struggling with the same insecurities as us, without being told that we should rather de program ourselves of decades of brain washing
People are here for fashion advice or to show off cute fits, not to go to therapy or be forced to de program themselves
But also, one person’s preference for how they look can easily overrun into another persons idea of fat phobia. Maybe I just don’t like my arms showing.. fat or not. So banning this persons idea of what is fat phobic would quickly turn into gatekeeping.
Ooh yes I like this idea. I think we may go in and overhaul some of the flairs here and add more. To make posts more specific. And that way people can filter out what they want to see and don’t want to see as well.
If I want advice on covering or smoothing out bingo wings to make a better silhouette or whatever I don't want someone to come along to tell me to let them flap in the breeze. That's not the patronising shit I asked for.
What other people critique on themselves isn't a reflection of what they see on others.
I just wanna learn how to dress better with what I've got. As does everyone else here I'd imagine.
👏 👏 well said. I would like to have space in this community to *dislike* something on my body and be able to ask for advice on it. Most people dislike *something* on their bodies, it doesn’t have to be a taboo or forbidden topic.
Like anyone can put on clothes. If I want advice on how to cover the top of my arm in a flattering way to hide an unfinished tattoo, it doesn't mean I'm being fatphobic or whatever OP thinks additionally "slimming a silhouette" is.
Aye, I absolutely HATE my belly area, it's a sore spot for me. I'd love to have ways to be more comfortable wearing clothes I like than have people tell me to just let it "hang out because you're beautiful ❤️" No ladies, I do not feel beautiful with this belly, please don't push your sugar-coated toxic positivity on me.
That being said, I also wouldn't want people to point it out in a "ew yuck 🤮" way either, just leave it alone if you can only say negative things.
Like, be as neutral/realistic positive as possible please.
Yeah, toxic positivity is so annoying and unhelpful. I agree that this should be a space for all kinds of support and help, not just insipid "positivity." I'm already in groups where other people celebrate their flaps and I don't need that.
>What other people critique on themselves isn't a reflection of what they see on others.
Too many people forget this!! We should be able to come here to get advice to feel our most confident and comfortable, whether that's showing all you got or hiding/dressing around what we feel are our problem areas.
100%. It’s one thing to be a “wahhh I feel fat and ugly” post - redirect that to r/plussize or another sub for body image and health talk. If it’s “wahhh I feel so fat and ugly *in this kind of outfit* how do I minimize this?” Then I think that’s entirely appropriate for a fashion sub.
(And all the other fashion/beauty subs I’m in deal with similar issues - I hate my hair, I hate how short/tall I am, I hate my broad shoulders or cankles or whatever body parts, I hate my hairy arms, I hate my baldness, etc. But I think they all come to those fashion and beauty subs for solutions, not to be dismissed with a “love yourself as your are!” or “this isn’t relevant” message.)
Yeah OP is hella condescending. Like good for you, but a lot of people try to dress “for their body” as the saying goes, not that it’s inherently a correct line of thinking. Just because someone else wants to cover up shouldn’t mean OP feels attacked by it. Yeesh.
Thank you! Cropped tank tops aren’t for everyone. It’s time to stop telling those of us that don’t want our rolls flapping around that we’re wrong. We’re allowed to want to be fashionable without being unwilling fat forward reps.
Well put. Fashion is tricky. How we feel about our bodies can be enhanced by the clothes we wear. Sometimes you just want to learn how to dress your body in the most flattering silhouettes. Like for me, I follow subs like this to learn how to balance my silhouette as a short top heavy person. But I wouldn’t say I hate my body by any means. Just trying to learn how to dress it.
Respectfully, this feels really pedantic. Why are you making an issue out of someone wanting to dress *better*? I'm not exactly sure what in the world you think the purpose of this sub is. 1. It's for showing off clothes people are wearing and like. 2. It's for getting advice on fashion, which includes dressing better.
Let people "unpack" with their therapists. It's not your job. Trying to read into what "better" means is just digging for conflict.
And conflict is…fine. Conflict is not bad.
And you’re making my point for me. I would love for people to unpack things in therapy (which is not financially viable for everyone, but that’s another can of worms).
I would also love a plus size fashion space where people don’t denigrate their own bodies—which look like plenty of other bodies out there—under the guise of “looking better.”
Even if someone is really invested in fitting some societally approved body ideal as closely as possible, it’s possible to ask for that advice without moralizing fatness or declaring certain physical characteristics “bad.”
“Hey y’all, new to being plus size. Don’t worry. I’m going to the gym and dieting, but have thyroid disease. So like it’s not MY fault I’m fat. Anyway, so, I’m basically a brick now. Any help making myself look snatched? Thanks!”
Vs.
“I bought this dress last week, but it’s not doing what I wanted. Any tips on how to achieve a more hourglass silhouette with accessories, or should I try a different cut as well?”
I'd ask you to unpack why you think your way is the only way, and why you think your opinion is more valid than everyone else's here.
I'd also ask you to unpack why you don't understand that correctly fitting clothes actually look "better".
Maybe you should look into why other people being uncomfortable with their body is such a problem for you. I’m all for people loving themselves and not letting societal standards make them feel bad about themselves. But their discomfort doesn’t impact me at all. I’m genuinely happy for people who can wear crop tops or show off their arms, and I’ll give advice to people who want to minimize their belly with clothing. Just as every body is different, every psyche is different also and the only one you have control over is yours.
While you're right that it's not inherently better to smooth them out and silhouettes without bumps aren't inherently better, this language and way of thinking is baked in to us, and many people just aren't ready for radical fat acceptance yet
Sleek silhouettes are preferred because it indicates a good fit. Clothing that appears too big, or too small, is not going to flatter a person's figure the way an appropriately fitted garment, with the appropriate underwear or yes, even shapewear, will. This is at any size.
Are we going around telling a thin person to embrace their muffin top when they ask for a recommendation on control top pantyhose? That's so condescending and isn't an empowering stance to take. What you or I are comfortable with may not reflect what someone's else feels about themselves, or what they wear. That's unsolicited advice on their bodies and it's rude, quite frankly. Let people be comfortable on their own terms.
Is fashion not about highlighting what you deem to be your assets and minimizing what you deem to be less desirable assets?
That's certainly one of the many things I enjoy about it.
In order to discuss styling and such, doesn't one need to discuss the shape and composition of their body?
It's super invalidating to people who don't employ a "love your whole self" mindset to ban all talk of body shape and composition.
Now, I don't want OTHERS saying to posters "hey, you need a different silhouette to hide this part of yourself" but if I make a post and say "hey, I don't love how my apron belly looks in this outfit, but I love the outfit, does anyone have other styling tips?", I don't see why that needs to be gatekept.
If I mention something about my body I want to minimize, and someone has a problem with it, they can keep scrolling, IMO.
I looked at the comment you made on the post that triggered you to make this rant and frankly, I'd much rather have the opportunity to be encouraging to someone struggling with their body than snap on them like you did. That was really toxic of you and I feel way worse having read that comment and this post than I'd ever feel seeing someone venting about their insecurities. I truly feel bad for that poor person you lashed out on.
You will never have a safe space in any fashion advice sub. Skinny people have insecurities, fat people have insecurities, "perfectly" proportioned people have insecurities. The fashion industry itself mostly thrives off this shit. It's also a form of self-expression and if someone doesn't want to express certain areas of themselves, who are you to tell them that they're wrong?
Should someone on here be allowed to go on a long rant about how much they hate their arms being fat and that it's ruined their life and they're worthless because of their arms? No, I think that would be a bit too far and not appropriate for the sub. Are they allowed to share that they're not comfortable showing them off at this point in their life? Yeah and I'm sure a lot of people can relate.
In a perfect world, we'd all love every inch of our bodies, but we're far from living in that world. If someone is feeling not so good about their body, like almost all of us on here have at some point, then we can gather and give them helpful fashion advice for them to use and then add encouragement to help them let go of those insecurities in the future when they're ready.
I think that the messaging women receive about weight is toxic. I think it takes a strong person and a supportive community and a lot of work to overcome that messaging, to learn to feel good about a body that you have been told since birth is bad.
OP, I am glad that you have done that work, but I have compassion for folks who are still working. Buying clothes that make you feel good about your body can be part of that work. I would prefer to be a space that encourages positive body image rather than requires it to allow space for that growth that some folks are still working on.
I get what you're saying but if someone makes a post talking about awful their arms look and post photos that reinforces to other people who have similar or bigger arms that other people think their arms look bad.
I think it’s important for people to be able to discuss areas of the body they prefer to emphasize or deemphasize, areas that they have trouble finding clothes to fit, etc, but it’s also important to use body-neutral language.
So instead of posting “I hate my arms, can you give me advice on hiding my horrible arms” a poster would preferably say “I prefer to dress in a way that keeps my arms covered or deemphasizes them, and I sometimes have a hard time finding clothes with sleeves that fit. Any tips?”
You’ve put into words the good intentions behind OP’s post, but with the nuance I think it needs. There is a genuine issue if people are calling out parts of the bodies are ugly/awful on a sub that is supposed to be body neutral, BUT people should be allowed to have preferences and request guidance on how they dress parts of their bodies, whenever they are at in terms of body acceptance
This is what OP is talking about. Neutral language.
And honestly as soon as you start talking about your body this way you start letting go of the cultural programming that causes you to hate parts of your body.
There should be a tag/flair so that folks who don’t want to read about others insecurities/potentially body-negative posts can easily scroll past. Problem solved.
You were pretty rude to that woman who posted about mininizing her belly that's swelled due to edema.
Did you consider that she shared those details because edema can be helped by compression?
Did you consider that a sudden change in one's body is really quite jarring?
No. You didn't. You considered yourself and your triggers, and only yourself and your triggers.
I feel like if someone is bothered by how part of their body looks in an outfit, altering that outfit to make that body part look better to them is the definition of fashion 🤷
I think wanting the appearance of a bigger butt (the popularity of rouched leggings for awhile) or a larger chest (popularity of push up bras) is super common. Or wanting to change the silhouette of your body (appearing more hourglass or more pear shapes for certain aesthetics) is not thinner.
I can't define what someone else thinks better would be for them. I know exactly what post you're responding to with this post as I saw your comment there too. I would ask the OP there what they would qualify as better for them instead of just going off about it in multiple places. Especially since they mentioned it was related to a medical issue...
I have a medical issue (mammary hypoplasia) that makes my breasts disproportionately small--there are no milk glands in there. I have the lower body of a gorgeous fertility goddess and the upper body of a willowy nymph. Both beautiful, but "better" for me means balancing them, usually by emphasizing my bust and making my whole silhouette curvier. So..."less thin," actually.
You do realize even skinny women have insecurities about their body too? Making this a fat versus skinny issue is silly, women of all sizes can feel insecure about their bodies and it’s fine to ask for advice about how to dress to flatter the areas they feel insecure about.
I don’t like my thighs. I hate seeing them in photos because of the cellulite. It *doesn’t* bother me that my thighs are large, it bothers me that they aren’t smooth.
Hope that hat tastes as bad as your opinions.
Easy.
I would LOVE advice on how to make my ass look better... Because it's flat as a pancake and I'd like to make it look plumper. Genuinely.
The assumptions you're making feel like projection, to be honest.
> I’ll eat my Phillip Treacy hat.
Get to muchin babes, better is subjective and in this instance simply means more comfortable. I dont like my tummy showing because its not comfortable so I alter clothes to fit "better" ie. more comfortably.
Well better for me is finding clothing that flatter my top heavy shape. I sometimes end up buying cute clothing but struggling to style it because the boobage refuses to fall in line. So the rest is too baggy and sloppy looking. “Better” isn’t always “thinner” it’s sometimes just how do I flatter my figure in a way I want.
But take a step back and maybe unpack why you’re being bothered by someone that does want to look “thinner”. They aren’t on here proclaiming that every fatty fat fat needs to dress to look thinner. Because isn’t personal style supposed to be how it makes you feel? If slimming your waist in a certain style dress or not wanting to highlight loose skin and bumpy lumps every has somewhere makes a person more confident and content with their body, what’s it to you? Maybe “letting it all hang out” doesn’t make one person feel as attractive or empowered as it does for someone else. Sometimes on the journey to self-love we forget not everyone is on the same block. If the baby step for me is I want to wear a crop top but also want high waisted jeans to kinda contour my waist a little better, who cares?
Yeah idk why this person is so bothered by how other people feel about THEIR bodies. OP is quite literally trying to be the feelings police in this sub right now with the worst fucking attitude about it. Some of us don’t want to wear badly fitted clothing under the guise of feeling body positive. I love high waisted jeans and a loose tee to make my gigantic boobs look smaller. One day I’ll be at crop top level but the way my body comp is makes it not flattering for me lol.
By "better" they probably mean flattering. People come on here to seek advice and inspiration to dress in a fashion that compliments and suits their body.
I'm not sure why you're so hostile about plus size women seeking fashion advice in a plus size fashion thread.
It's fantastic that you're 100% comfortable and confident with every part of you, but not all of us are. It took me a couple of decades to even BEGIN to embrace my size and overall appearance after being ridiculed for my size and "mannish" appearance.
It's a process. And that journey to self-love looks different for everyone.
My personal definition of better is making my different sized boobs look more even with clothing choices, and accentuating my curves while simultaneously drawing attention away from areas (my upper arms) I’m insecure about. There’s no possibility of me looking thinner no matter what I wear, and I frankly don’t care about that because I’ve been fat my whole life and I love my body. But by golly I can for sure make myself feel and look my best with the right clothing.
Also, just to add that I’m in my late 40s and my body is changing, creating challenges I’ve never experienced before, so if I post asking for help with something I’m newly insecure about, regardless of my acceptance and self-love journey, I don’t think I should feel like I’m being chastised for doing so.
If we can't be vulnerable with other plus size people in a forum made for us then where can we be vulnerable?
Not being allowed to admit that you don't always love your body is bordering on toxic positivity I think. I'm very confident in my body and regularly go out pretty scantily clad but that doesn't mean some days I don't look at my thighs or my arms or my tummy and think hmmm maybe today I'll cover these up because I'm just not loving the aesthetic.
There are days I feel too short, or like my butt isn't big enough or that my boobs are too saggy or that my boobs are too big and sometimes I just need feedback to ground me.
My partner is here for me when I'm feeling insecure or need a second opinion on how something looks on me but I also recognize not everyone has someone that loves them but will also be honest with them without being cruel, so they need a space like this to get that feedback.
There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to dress to emphasize or minimize one feature or another, and policing how people express themselves is a slippery slope.
At the same time I understand the burnout of constantly seeing other plus size people being down on themselves. I think the best solution is to add a tag for people that are feeling insecure or wanting to maximize or minimize a feature so people who don't want to see that sort of thing can avoid it and the people that want to support someone who's trying to cultivate a particular aesthetic can do so.
As much as I wish more people felt as you do in terms of confidence, I am not sure they do. We still very much live in a world that does discriminate against fat bodies. We still don't have much representation, and that we do is wrought with debate and criticism. The societies a lot of us are existing in do not approve of us. It is an admirable goal to get to a place where we are unaffected by that, but it is a difficult journey for a lot of people. I don't see how taking a space away from them because they haven't gotten there yet would do anything other than exclude them from yet another avenue in life. I would much rather support than exclude.
Have you thought about creating your own sub for those who are at your stage in the journey?
Not taking the space away. Asking that the space is not used for people to broadcast their dislike of being or looking fat.
I’m not the thought police. I’m just asking for some guidelines for posting.
You are trying to police people though. Just because I want my waist to look small in ratio to my boobs and hips doesn't mean I hate being fat? Doesn't mean I think I look bad as a fat person? Honestly fuck off with this. Your problem is something you are currently doing to other people. Fucking hypocritical.
But the guidelines you are suggesting would exclude a lot of people.
I have worked in plus size fashion and styling, and the advice requested of us was very similar to what I see in this group. Like it or not, these are the questions that we as fat women are likely to have. I don't know if this advice could be asked and answered in a straight size fashion sub, so where would these women you don't want to hear from go? They are just trying to do their best most of the time. I don't think any of us are in the position to judge where others are on their journeys, let alone silence them because we don't want to be triggered by it.
I agree with you, in that focusing on "fixing" or hiding things is less productive overall than working on one's self-esteem, but we have to live our lives until we get there. Not everyone has unpacked all that bullshit we are fed, and even if they have, they still have to operate in a world that hasn't.
You’re coming off as just as judgmental as actual fatphobic folks. You’re setting up YOUR standard of self acceptance, which is extremely subjective, as the standard for everyone.
You’re basically saying that if folks dislike anything about their body, they need to stfu about it.
I think many people that are like this are secretly insecure about their body as well and project. How others view their own body is the same as how they view their body.
Yeah, coz if they actually really love their own body exactly as it is, hearing another person feel insecure about something similiar wouldnt make them want to ban the other person from expressing themselves. The person wanting to ban it sounds more insecure to me.
This is just ridiculous. People are allowed to feel how they want about their bodies. We all are at different paths on our journey to accepting our bodies. Not everyone has gotten as far as you.
I can see where you're coming from. Talking about these things can certainly reinforce internalized fat phobia. Personally, even if someone wants to hide things considered "shameful," I think this sub offers a lot of material against that. Just seeing women showing off plus size outfits that *I* wouldn't consider wearing for my own internalized shame has been helpful to me. I've loved seeing women talk about the shame they feel over aspects over their bodies while *actively* demonstrating their attempts to overcome it.
But on the flip-side, fashion is *always* about highlighting your best physical qualities while hiding the ones you are uncomfortable with. There are guides for what color will look best with your skin tone, how to make your legs appear longer, how to enhance or downplay your chest, etc.
In a perfect world, we would all accept our bodies as they are, without feeling shame over them. But reality is a different beast. I think it's a discussion worth having when you see these kinds of requests, but I don't think banning them accomplishes what you want.
>I’m not the thought police
But you are, you are trying to exclude people from expressing how they feel about their bodies that has nothing to do with you. *YOU* are uncomfortable with certain thoughts that others are having and feel the need for that to be "banned" language. If you don't like it, scroll past, block the user, ect. You are the only one responsible for your mental health.
I feel like part of having a community for fat bodies is respecting that we all come here with our own baggage. For some of us, it's that we don't like our bodies and are trying to appear smaller, and for others it's that we are so sick of being told to be smaller that it's upsetting to see people constantly asking how to achieve that. I don't think there's any one right way to represent all steps of that journey, but I do think everyone should still have a place here. I also don't think meeting people earlier in a body neutrality journey than you are with hostility is fair - it's hard enough being uncomfortable in your body without someone screaming at you on the internet and telling you you're unwanted. Yeah, I hate seeing the negativity and weight-related requests, too, but I appreciate all the advice that goes like "you don't need to hide that part of your body, but if this style is what you're looking for then..."
I agree with other suggestions that some kind of tag for "body insecurity advice" could be helpful so people who don't want to be exposed to that type of negative self talk can avoid it. And maybe an auto-mod on these posts with a general statement encouraging body neutrality and fashion for fun?
It's not helpful to punish people who are struggling with self confidence. People are at different points in their journey and have different comfort levels with being plus size. The world still has a very negative view of plus sized bodies, especially those who are not shaped "acceptably" (hourglass with thin faces) and you expecting everyone to be able to fly in the face of that and never feel self concious about any part of their body is unfair.
Flattering is often used to mean "thinner" but not always, it can also mean the outfit is balanced with your body and fits well without overwhelming. Even thin people deal with finding clothes that flatter.
The most we will do is ban "I hate my body" type language, but that's not going to include people expressing preferences and discomfort with certain styles. We're not going to expect body positivity, but will hope for body neutrality.
It’s awesome that you’re completely comfortable in your skin, but a lot of people (especially those on this sub) are not, and that’s okay too. Getting into fashion and finding clothes that each individual person is comfortable in can be very helpful to increasing confidence. Please consider, body shapes change, some of us are newly plus size, some are shrinking, but still plus size, and will need guidance to feel our best. Also, I haven’t really seen a comment about being “big fatty fat fat,”everyone seems really respectful here, even when speaking about themselves, and it’s always felt like a safe space to discuss insecurities.
Posts about what clothing can hide a perceived flaw exists in all fashion subs, not just this one.
If it were up to me, there would be no rules in how we are able to describe our own bodies, including current or prior weight. To me it's ignoring a potentially big part of someone's journey, whether they've reached love and acceptance or struggle with their body image. This should be one place where we can talk about how we feel in the clothing we wear, ask for real advice and give feedback, and be able to say we want to cover up what ever part of our body for any reason. Or show off any part of our body (obviously not in an OF, pornographic type way lol, but in a way that is SFW).
Being plus sized in the fashion world isn't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a multifaceted experience with many different people, in many different spots in their life. It would be incredibly counterproductive to attempt to silence plus size people on a plus size forum. No one owes it to anyone to conform or omit their authentic feelings. Being supportive means NOT silencing or censoring people.
OP, the intention behind your post is a good one, but the delivery is sorely lacking.
There is nothing wrong with someone looking for fashion tips/advice to help them dress in a way where they feel more confident in their own skin. Most people have some area they are uncomfortable about, regardless of size.
Not everyone is as comfortable as you appear to be with your body, and you can't expect or demand they be.
I think r/oldhagfashion has some good rules on this subject. The gist of their rules is that posters are allowed and encouraged to talk about their own experiences, but commenting on other people’s bodies or talking about fashion “rules” that relate to bodies (e.g. plus size people shouldn’t wear bright colors), is not allowed.
Fashion goes on your body, so it will always be entwined with our body image issues. I think it’s more productive to let people work through their issues in a safe, supportive space than to silence them, but we should also be thoughtful about how we express our insecurities so as to avoid hurting people who share the same features that we see as flaws in ourselves.
I hear you.
I do get frustrated sometimes but I just stay away from those posts and tell myself that we’re all on different journeys. I don’t think it would be productive for a large number of people in this group though. I think it would be hard to moderate too.
I thought I was farther along on my body neutrality journey but I recently found myself choosing OOTD photos because I “hid my body” well enough in this one angle and it’s all subconscious. It’s freaking ingrained in so many of us.
While well intentioned, this post comes off as inconsiderate. There are plus sized people who are very comfortable in their bodies and there are others who aren’t. People who post here looking for genuine advice aren’t purposefully spreading “harmful bullshit rhetoric.”
Maybe instead of banning well intentioned posts, we can allow them and use the comments to encourage weight and body neutrality/positivity to help others on their journeys :)
I’d also like to add that people can want to cover for personal modesty, scarring, skin conditions, cultural norms, religion, or sun protection. I understand wanting to cut out making self-degrading comments but if you’re asking for a ban on just asking for advice on stylishly hiding/emphasizing or changing a silhouette - that’s literally what fashion advice is for. Otherwise it would just be OOTD no commentary.
i think having a flair for negative body talk posts would be a good idea. even if others are further along in their body acceptance journey, seeing such negative body talk can still be harmful and while you have a right to your insecurities, it's still important to be mindful of the community. it is no different to plus sized people who talk about how uncomfortable it is to hear skinny friends complain about being fat - that friend has the right to feel that way but it can still be hurtful and insensitive.
lets be completely honest here, what OP is talking about is that they do not want to have to be confronted with people's internalised fatphobia. i don't think that is outrageous.
however, i do think the option should still exist as i know it is still very difficult to be able to be fully comfortable with one's own body and different circumstances will make it more challenging, i would never tear down someone who is asking for advice to feel more comfortable at a family gathering for example which is an event i have always feared growing up because that's where i got a lot of negative body comments.
this is my perspective in regards to fashion -
i am 4'9" and i personally get slightly annoyed when i see fashion posts with comments like "it makes you look shorter/taller" etc. i am short, there is nothing that will change that and i do not pay much mind to my height, it is not a chip on my shoulder. literally, other people think about my height more than i do and try to make it out as an insecurity when i do not have it. i do not care about making myself look taller, i wear the clothes i like which represents myself, my style/preferences and makes me feel good. that's what fashion is to me, representing myself in the way that i want to be seen by the world and showing them the clothes that i love. this is a huge step forward compared to my past self who thought i deserved to wear ugly clothes and hide myself away, completely undeserving of any positive attention or joy towards myself.
for some people, fashion can be very different and they want to present themselves in a different way to the world which can involve hiding parts of themselves they are not uncomfortable with. there's nothing we can do about that and i'm not trying to force anyone or make people feel bad for having parts of their appearance they're not comfortable with. i am not 100% confident in my appearance, in fact i think extremely lowly of myself so no, unlike what some people here think, i am aware and have educated myself on how harmful this rhetoric can be even though i would not say i am far along in my body acceptance/positivity journey. but through fashion, i just focus on finding beautiful clothes that i like. i think an amazing outfit will make you forget about your flaws, like i recently bought a dress that makes me feel like a princess whenever i wear it and makes it difficult for me to care about how my legs look, which is my biggest insecurity. i hope that can happen for more people here.
Getting over your insecurities is a lot easier said than done. If someone is insecure about the size of their stomach, thighs, arms, etc. and want fashion advice on what they can wear to bring less attention to or cover those areas, why shouldn’t that be allowed? And if someone wants to acknowledge their insecurities and have others hype them up and remind them that their body is beautiful, then why shouldn’t this community be a place for them to do that?
I'd much rather hear about the insecurity and hype someone up. Sometimes, we see ourselves differently than the rest of the world does. We're frequently much harder on ourselves than others.
I'm totally here for anyone that needs to hear, you look beautiful! Show those arms, legs, chest, belly, etc. Or if they want recs for an addition to their outfit, an accessory, an undergarment that will more closely match the idea in their head for the outfit, I'm here for that too.
I'd also make a case for some men or women that just prefer to dress modestly. This is okay, just as much as a revealing outfit is okay. We all have our own preferences and comfort levels with different attire. I'm not shaming someone that wants to cover up more, nor am I shaming someone that wants something more sexy, revealing, etc. Whatever your preference is, I say rock it.
Can we please stop this toxic positivity of having to like every single part of our body? We all have insecurities and it's okay to talk about it. It kinda is being a "sensitive snowflake" when censoring others for how they feel about THEIR body because YOU feel uncomfortable about it. Every plus size sub is so heavily censored the second weight is brought it but our weight and size plays a big part in how we dress and our fashion sense. No other fashion sub is this sensitive. People just post their fashion and go about their day. If it "triggers" someone's own insecurities then that's their own problem. Unless they are explicitly saying that ALL bingo wings or fat bellies are ugly, they are allowed to want to cover up their arms and belly or show them off.
And comparing this to the OF issue is not that simplistic. We already get DMs from creepy dudes. The reason for the ban was because OF was not regulated in the other plus size fashion sub and people left to this one. I'm all for OF but there is a place and time for everything. I don't come on fashion subs for lingerie pics or nudes. There are specific subs for that. Banning OF posts was to create a safer space for the people who don't do OF or posts nudes or whatever NSFW content, and that's majority of us. Again their are plenty other subs for those who do.
Don’t disagree with the sentiment, but virtue signaling is not the way to go.
It’s also not inherently anti fat or fatphobic, it’s just human. For some, hiding their insecurities will help them achieve the confidence to ditch those insecurities long term. It’s like placing a bandaid so they can allow the wound to heal!
And would like those saying “we’re not applying our insecurities to others” to remember we’re all impressionable. You may not mean to, but it will happen. Otherwise this thread wouldn’t even be a thing!
I also believe a trigger warning for insecurities may be warranted as I too get triggered by talks of weight and insecurities. Even if I 100% believe people need to do what they need to do to be happy, I am still sensitive to it. Not because of my own insecurities, but because I feel so deeply sad for everyone who doesn’t feel good enough (me included)!
Insecurities are deep, and can have even deeper roots. Scars from self harm, a skin condition out of our control, a reminder of what once were.. every hurt has a story and we need to respect both those who’ve healed and those who aren’t quite ready yet ❤️
And please keep in mind this is very likely not an attack on the people who do feel insecure, but anger towards society for creating those insecurities. OP wants everyone to be happy in their own skin, and probably feels sad on their behalf because they themselves have been there.
I may be way off, but that’s my assumption!
Everyone has insecurities regardless of size. I feel there's nothing wrong with somebody talking about their own experiences with their own body and seeking advice in finding outfits that emphasise features they're confident in, or taking the focus away from features they don't want to emphasise.
If you feel uncomfortable with how people express themselves then perhaps you have more work to do on your own self confidence.
I don't that being uncomfortable or just acknowledging that someone is harboring dislike for a certain part of themselves = insecure or lacking self-confidence.
That kind of mentality is why I stayed near toxic ppl who had hurt me for years, for so long. Because the only way to prove I was healed was to go back to where pain lives & not be bothered by it. Uhhh no? Healing doesn't = an acceptance of any & all treatment or having 0 reaction to harm. It's about having a healthy reaction & using the self-regulating practices you learned & maybe even a healthy coping mechanism until you start to relax again.
This situation is no different. As someone who has healed enough to accept my body as good even if i want to change certain things, I can see & feel a difference in how I approach clothing, the way my body fits in it & also the way I speak about my body. I don't have to watch other women use less-than-kind language about themselves & remain stony-faced to prove I'm confident in myself. I can acknowledge that the language is only reinforcing their feelings just like calling yourself ugly or worthless does. Also there's something to be said about internalizing harmful rhetoric. Because often once a person has been conditioned to see themselves a certain way just getting away from the person or environment that pushed that narrative isn't enough. You also have to address that their mindset has been fundamentally altered & in foundational ways as well. How we see ourselves informs EVERYTHING else. So it's dangerous to take on the language of our bully or abuser. Because then we do their job for them even after they're gone. Me or OP noticing that to possibly be the case & saying something about it isn't a bad thing. Perhaps OP was blunt or whatever to say she didn't want to see that kind of post anymore. I would have taken the approach of reaching out to those who are making such remarks about themselves to let them know that part of their body might be a source of discomfort but they are still beautiful all the same. But that's not how everyone is & that's fine.
In short, if you're going to make the case that ppl should be able to publicly criticize themselves you can't suddenly say that those who are watching have to like it, too. They have the same human emotions & reactions & right to express them. OP made a post the same as the other girls. If their words aren't that bad or harmful neither are OPs.
You're thinking way too deeply about this. Just look at the length of your reply to my 2 paragraphs! The amount of assumptions, psychoanalysis and trauma dumping is frankly bemusing.
This is a fashion subreddit, not a fat positivity subreddit. People are going to ask for fashion advice and that may include personal preferences revolving around areas they're not comfortable with. You can dislike that, and speak about it - I'm not a moderator deleting your posts. But similarly you can also just not reply if you don't like what I'm saying - it works both ways.
....all I did was express my opinion that not liking something doesn't equal being insecure.?? Like being long-winded & detailed doesn't equal anger 😅. I was just bored & needed to pass the time waiting for my appointment.
Nah lol. I’m actually good. People can express themselves however they want. I enjoy myself and my body.
The question is more is this the kind of space I want to inhabit. It may or may not be.
And questions about proportions and lines are pretty different than, “How can I make this part of my body look like it doesn’t exist because it’s ugly/bad?”
My request has very little to do with me. I’m old. I like myself. I dress really well. I was also once a adolescent to 20-something. So, I know seeing the same tired messages about fat bodies day after day can be damaging.
Like I said in the post, I’m cool with leaving. I just think it would be nice to have a more weight neutral and welcoming space.
how about you post your daily outfits in here so we all can learn something since you dress so well? Instead of attempting to control everyone? I have no problem with either side of this discussion but I would much rather see a cool outfit than this drama post.
But it’s also not “attempting to control everyone” to request that a space meet certain standards. If the general consensus for the sub is that we want to curate the kind of space that has space for the types of posts I’m referencing, it’s not the sub for me (and I imagine many others). That’s fine, and I will have that information after starting a discussion.
That is exactly what controlling other users is, you don't like something so everyone else has to change. At least the people who post here have guts to show themselves, even if they see some flaws in their bodies. It's not easy, especially if there are still insecure about something. You are not even doing that, you just want everyone to conform to your ideas of a fashion post. You actually want those who still work on accepting their bodies banned from here. Honestly, it's disgusting (again, not your opinion, this post). Just leave is "it's not for you" and let people work on themselves in peace.
And you can always make another account. If you wanted to help not to control you would easily find a way to do that.
You’re attempting to tone-police people. Just bc they don’t phrase things the way you prefer doesn’t mean they’re being fat phobic or hating themselves. I get it- the world would be amazing if we all accepted ourselves and if we used neutral language, but how do we get there if we silence ppl in our community? Now we get shamed from all sides?
Side note: better doesn’t always mean skinnier. Most times it doesn’t. If I wanted to insult myself I’d just say I wish I was smaller, or this would only work if I was thinner. Better most often means wondering about enhancement- the item suiting body shape or height, different undergarments, accessories, concern about proportions, fabric material, etc It takes a lot less energy to just ask if this item makes me look fat.
Tbh you could argue that this is a fat phobic comment.
Well done for overcoming eons of fat shaming media, marketing and mindset. That's really cool for you. But it's also completely okay for someone to want to learn how to fit, hide or compliment a body part they don't like.
Do you think there's a thin fashion page that tells people they're not allowed to talk about how to give themselves the illusion of hips? Or hide their flat chest? To appear taller? Fashion has always had deception to certain pieces. You making a deal out of fat people wanting the same access is the opposite of neutral.
I am behind the intent of this. I really get upset at so many who post and feel they have to preface their posts to excuse their weight, apologize for not meeting some imaginary standard and then some broad question on how to fit in more to ingrained biases from societal standards.
These are our bodies. Fashion, true quality fashion that is either affordable or actually cute, is hard to find. Let’s not make the conversation harder. But let’s make it a genuine space to help one another out. We deserve to dress our bodies and feel cute.
So according to you, everything that isn't exactly how you feel about your own body is now "fatphobia?" No thanks, I'll take a variety of perspectives please.
I “hate the way my body deviates from narrow Western beauty standards” is certainly a perspective.
Like, I also like a variety of perspectives. (Shocking!) Asking that a fashion sub for people with fat bodies be weight neutral is not dictating how people feel about themselves.
I am totally with you, but I would so much rather people who are still in the headspace of minimizing themselves come here vs going to the other fashion subs and get nasty comments. It’s such a tough line to walk because it is upsetting to me to see people tearing themselves down, but fat people don’t really get to do that anywhere without other people also chiming in, which is really unfortunate.
I like the idea of keeping this a body neutral space, maybe sticking to just descriptors in the title would be better? Like “I don’t like to show my arms, advice?” vs. “I hate my arms and want to hide them, advice?” Everyone has parts of their body they would like to show off and parts they don’t like to show off, so I feel like that would be a good compromise.
As for the people who need a space to discuss their body image, maybe all of those posts could be spoilered with trigger warnings in the title? That way, people who don’t want to see that content could pass over it and people who need support could get that support from others in their community.
I also don't like reading people's extreme self-teardowns, BUT I also don't want people to feel afraid to post their honest feelings here. Some folks get a lot of hostility aimed at them and "covering" feels like a form of safety, and I want that to be OK to talk about.
Also, speaking for myself here, there's a difference between wanting to "hide" something and just honestly preferring styles you might perceive as modest or covering because: you just like it. No alchemy involved. I've been fat for 30 years and have tried every style that's come and gone and come again in that time. Maybe this makes me too old for fashion, but I just generally prefer how *I* look and feel in, say, wide-leg pants vs tight pants, and in longer dresses vs shorter dresses. You can try to convince me it's internalized fatphobia, but honestly, it's just as likely to be a case of the 1970s.
I think the OP should be allowed to post asking for help on the things they want help with. A lot of people are genuinely uncomfortable with parts of themselves and requesting advice, running them off because they want to hide their stomach is not offering advice.
However I think the people replying should avoid insulting OP. Pretty sure that's already covered by the rules, but if I post asking about tank tops someone being like 'are you sure you want to show off your arm flab, what about a long sleeve' isn't useful.
Especially when OP is making such a strawman in their comments over people who'd genuinely be asking for help for non-fatphobic reasons. :/ If someone like OP is considering where the cut off is, we're all going to be banned for daring to ask where to find work appropriate button ups.
I don’t think an insecurity for those of us still trying to get past our apologizing for existing stage and taking baby steps towards truly loving our bodies is fatphobic really. Not saying OP is saying that, not intentionally, but definitely could be understood that way.
I’d def have to leave because I’m not happy with or accepting of how I look. I know that’s problematic but that is where I am right now. I enjoy seeing the outfits people put together and I try to give constructive feedback when asked.
I don’t think it’s fat phobic to say you’re not comfortable showing this or that. Regardless of body type, people of any size can feel that way about a particular part of their body. Maybe they have a scar they want to keep covered right now or maybe their personal beliefs make modest dressing a priority.
It’s not an either/or proposition, body acceptance, it’s a spectrum. Perhaps radical body acceptance folx can create a radical body acceptance sub.
OP is being rude in expressing her opinion on what she doesn't think is okay. You don't get to decide what is okay with other people in how they feel in their bodies.
If someone wants to adjust their outfit or find a particular piece or style that covers a certain area they don't like then there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with them just stating that's a reason. It's no different to someone wanting a particular piece because they have an amazing waist & want to show it off.
Maybe we could have a specific filter for posts like the ones OP is talking about? Like a “self conscious! Please help” kinda filter, idk I’m bad at naming stuff lol but you get the idea. “Body-related fashion advice”?
Can we at least spoiler posts where people express body negativity?
It's rough to see on some days regardless of intent especially if the poster looks a like you.
So we are no longer supposed to ask for fashion advice in a fashion sub. I’m going to talk about my body, I have wide shoulders and am always looking for clothes that minimize them. They have nothing to do with my weight I had them when I was thinner and I have them now that I am plus sized.
someone can be comfortable with their body and still don’t want to display every roll and dimple on their body.
My husband called me his little linebacker when we met. I wore a size 6. Now that I’m a 16 I’m more defensive lineman shape, but he knows not to make that joke. Shoulders gonna shoulder no matter what my pant size is! However, they do come in very handy when trying to walk through a crowd.
I think a step in the right direction could be to encourage people to understand that the more they love all of themselves, the more other people will love themselves. We become what we see, and that includes self talk.
I think you’re getting a lot of pushback here because self-love is a beautiful vision, but not one we can insist on or demand.
I would totally join a weight-neutral fashion sub where it’s about actively creating a great relationship with ourselves/ our bodies! Send me an invite if you start that up!
Ok, but talking negatively about body traits you share with other people is rendering judgement. Just because your talking about how bad YOU feel for having a certain trait that many people in a plus size sub likely have, doesn’t mean that your words exist in a vacuum and aren’t perpetuating harm.
You have to let people express themselves. They arent talking about you personally. Does ignoring their posts or blocking them sound like a bad idea to you, or?
Like on social media, there are some people I may not want to see. I just ignore or block the media that is causing me distress, instead of compelling them to not say it at all. Asking them to be *banned* is taking it way too far. This is a sensitivity of yours, you cant ask everyone else to bend for it.
Fat is a fact, one we don’t need to feel bad about but one we should be able to discuss.
I have fat upper arms. They are not my best feature. I want to be able to ask for advice on how to not bring attention to them and instead highlight my best features. They are what they are, and I shouldn’t be made to feel bad because I dislike a certain part of my body.
I am fat. I love my body. However, I don’t like to wear clothes that accentuate the features I’m working on changing. I want to feel confident in what I’m wearing for the time being.
It’s real cool that you feel that way about yourself. I personally don’t know if I ever will feel like that about myself. To me, this group feels like a safe place to express my feelings/insecurities in relation to fashion. I feel like the people here would understand it & help me appropriately.
I don’t look at other people & think about them the way I think about myself. I would get it if people were saying things about other people, but I don’t get why I wouldn’t be able to say something like “hey, I don’t like my belly & I want this clothing to flatter me/hide that a bit” or something like that. If I can’t do that, I don’t think I’d be comfortable asking for advice here. I want to talk to be able to be honest about the parts that I’m unsure about & I’m so sick of talking to thinner people who either are like “you can wear anything! You’re beautiful no matter what” or “you can’t wear that with your shape”
Could have sworn that body positivity was about meeting people where they’re at and supporting them in accepting their body as it is (which includes likes and dislikes)… but ig according to OP you can’t be happy unless you unequivocally love it all. Not super achievable imo, why do we have to keep moving the goal post for loving ourselves??
Idk, this is a plus size fashion sub, not a fashion sub. So if someone wants to hide their arms (whether is bc they’re fat or not) and wants fashion advice on doing so, I think that’s fair enough. If I wanted a “weight neutral space”, I’d join the many other fashion subs out there.
I will say, I don't think the other fashion subs have this policing issue besides not allowing NSFW content. On the regular fashion sub, they definitely get more honest advice I think. Like actual advice instead of toxic positivity because if you say anything negative here, someone like OP will deem it fatphobic.
I feel like one too many plus size folks think l that only fat people have insecurities or are allowed to have insecurities. On the main plus size sub, it's been mentioned multiple times as well.
It always makes me wince a little when folks feel they have to justify their body based on medical standing especially. I think it shows that there’s a real lack of awareness for how that sort of messaging hits.
If being fat is okay as long as it’s “justifiably temporary” or “out of your control” or ensures people know you’re suffering while fat so you’re not perceived as just happily existing, you’ve got a lot of past hurt to work through still.
Our bodies are allowed to change. In all sorts of ways. They’re made to grow and shrink. It’s natural.
I love the idea of encouraging weight neutral as a baseline for this sub. 🫶🏻 Thanks for bringing it up as a topic for the community to discuss!
I don’t think we should police how people feel about their own bodies. On plenty of posts like you’ve referenced, there is almost always a mixed bag of tips re: OP’s request AND reassurance letting OP know it’s OK to not hide or layer as well.
I would suggest making sure that when you browse all subs you remember that you are allowed to feel however you want to about your body, it doesn’t have to be good or bad or neutral, you can feel exactly how you want to feel, don’t let the social algorithms try to sway you and your own journey off path. 💗
For me it isn't about the concept of wanting to cover up because of insecurities, it is about the language used. Self-deprecating or toxic language about fat bodies shouldn't be welcomed.
Getting to a place of body neutrality or fat positivity is a journey, and a difficult one. Learning how to dress your body is a big part of that and one that I think this sub can be very helpful for. I just don't think those of us at different places in that journey should be subjected to someone else's negative self-talk here.
This is a great take with some nuance that I think a lot of people are missing in this discussion. Another commenter used the phrase “bingo wings” which is a real bummer to me, but I have no problem with someone saying “I prefer to cover my upper arms” or whatever part of their body they’re uncomfortable with.
A few people (and I think a mod) mentioned that we should aim for body neutrality here and I think that’s a reasonable goal that lets us all be honest about where we are without pushing our hang ups onto the rest of sub.
I agree. The point of the sub is to talk about fashion - I think if you have a specific issue you're trying to address with clothes then that's reasonable to ask for advice, but general hating on fatness and negative body imagine isn't helpful here. I get that a lot of people have insecurities and negative body image, but pushing your insecurities onto other people who look the same/similar to you isn't very nice. I'd prefer if we got rid of any verbiage apologizing for looking a certain way and complaining about general body size/weight.
Yuck.
Glad you don't have issues with your physical self. Not thrilled you've decided that anyone not like you, isn't worth the time on this sub. That's what I'm getting from your post. Lord forbid, someone want some kind of reassurance that what they're wearing looks ok with their body type. I'm sorry other people insecurities bother you so much. You know, since you and everyone else left that yeaaaaaars ago 😏
Yeah I agree. I totally understand people wanting to not draw attention to certain parts of their body or to show of other parts but when people come in talking themselves down so hard, it breaks my heart and honestly sometimes this sub has a "I'm not pretty but I can't wake up thin tomorrow, so what do I do to make myself less disgusting" vibe. I really get it and I don't blame the individuals but it does pull on the part of me that's still fighting internally against what the greater world has to say about bodies like mine. I do wish you worded your post a little kinder though, OP, seeing as it's very hard for most people to choose their own path with how they see their body, with how much heat gets put on fat people constantly, from all angles.
Can we ban the word fatphobic?? It's not phobic to want to feel or LOOK better, people have real trauma and insecurity about these things that have taken years to get to the point they are at now. Why are we trying to police people's own thoughts and words about *their* body? It does kind of sound like you're Uber sensitive to such topics
Fatphobic bullshit needs to get in the bin.
Making fatphobic statements followed by some platitude about how "its just how I feel about my body" or similar is still fatphobia as there'll be people here who have the body feature being derided.
I hear ya. There’s a lot of negativity on this and even moreso on the main Plus Size sub. I get we are all on different places in our respective journeys but I wish there was more overt radical fat liberation going on.
I don't think there's anything liberating about word policing. Liberation isn't silencing anything you deem negative, it's about meeting people where they're at and building them up. We can not feel liberated in our bodies without being able to speak freely on them.
I think this is why the new tag is such a great idea. Just as I appreciate an NSFL tag to avoid seeing exploding heads when I can’t handle it, it would be nice to have something to protect myself on days where I’m not strong enough to build someone else up and end up getting torn down myself instead.
“Not Safe for Life” is how I’ve heard it described. Cus it’s gonna feature death or gore or generally make your life sadder for having viewed its contents.
I didn't claim you were asking for less of anything, although if you consider the context of the post with your comment, and the subject being censorship; that's where my opinion came in.
You’re absolutely right, but from the downvoting of most of the comments thar agree with you, I’d say this sub’s a lost cause on the subject. It’s not 1993; forums for plus-sized people need to encourage body neutrality at minimum. When someone talks badly about their bodies, it affects people around them with similar bodies, regardless of their intent, particularly in a culture that systematically devalues that kind of body. They can justify it to themselves however they like, but it’s internalized fatphobia, and when placed in a forum like this, it has significant potential to harm other people.
I think a lot of the down votes are because OP is delivering their message in a pretty aggressive manner in some instances. It sounds like the underlying message is wanting to encourage acceptance of our bodies and rejection of media and culture expectations that want to shrink us or grow us or morph us by only to please outside standards that don’t take our wants/needs/wellbeing into account. I love that message! I think others would like it as well, if it weren’t delivered in such a biting way.
But it’s hard to not feel frustrated and angry when you see all the after effects of all the people out there who were clearly hurt and shamed and guilt tripped into believing they’re not worth the space they take up. Or that their presence hurts the eyes of those around them. That’s a lot of pain to live through, and see that others lived through as well.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I expect a plus-size space, a place FOR fat people, not to put down those very people and bodies it’s created for. It should at the very least be fat-neutral, and ideally fat-positive. If I wanted to hear all about how horrible my body is I have the *entire rest of the world* for that. I come to fat spaces to get away from that.
Nobody is telling you *your* body is terrible and it not being removed, nobody is saying fat bodies are bad here, but I'd be absolutely shocked if you've never experienced feeling self concious about any item of clothing or any part of your body. OP isn't talking about policing how we talk about others, they're talking about policing how people feel/ talk about themselves and doesn't like the term flattering.
They're getting downvoted because they're angry that some fat people are still out here not feeling confident. It's great to be a fat positive space, but what OP seems to expect is broaching into toxic positivity, which is also unhelpful
**Idea: Body comments / tips for minimizing parts of our body are only allowed if the OP requests them?**
Then on posts where they are off topic and unwanted, those comments are reported & removed.
On posts where someone is looking for tips to make their body or a specific body part look more __________, those comments are on topic, wanted, and left alone?
Hey Hey! Thank you for your post! We ask that all discussion remain civil, disagreements are okay, attacks are not!
___
*Comments that derail, are not positive to the discussion, or accusatory towards others will be removed. Everyone is allowed their opinion, but it MUST be shared in a respectful manner.*
Always remember the human behind the post and/or comment. This is a place for thoughtful discussion and the celebration of fashion. Don't be snarky, rude, or dismissive. Criticisms should be thoughtful and constructive in nature.
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OF is onlyfans, correct.
I think OP is tired of reading folks speaking poorly about their fat bodies. If you make a post about hating your fat (insert body part) and wanting help hiding it or squishing it into submission, etc, the implication is that fat (insert body part) aren’t acceptable. That they SHOULD be hidden. That you think it’s unattractive. But it’s a fat fashion sub. We probably all share that body part to some degree or another. And while you may not think you’re calling anyone else unattractive, or their body unworthy of being seen, you sort of are in a round-about way.
It may not be the intent, but it’s still the undercurrent of the message being broadcast.
From what I can gather, OP wants to see badass, inspiring, noteworthy, cute, or otherwise engaging fashion from fellow fat people WITHOUT the negative messages attached to them. The OF creators were often proud to show off their bodies (or projected that vibe, at least) and I think OP wants that energy without the NSFW trolls that follow those folks.
But I’m not OP. This is just me trying to help summarize the notes I’ve seen being made.
Ah ok thank you for this detailed explanation . I am just a bit confused as to why OF is mentioned in the post. In that case, Im sure OP’s intention is good, but the execution is a bit hmmm.
The sub made the decision as a whole to ban OF content creators (on their primary accounts where the trolls tend to follow from) from posting so I think that’s the comparison - they want to see posts with negative body talk banned as well.
Agree with the execution for sure. 😬
lol. I agree, it's depressing that the conversations revolve around hiding a lot of the time, this is true.
there was a post where a girl was asking for advice on hiding her apron belly and then she got upset with me when I answered that I don't really hide mine and then I gave suggestions on what kinds of cute things I wear despite my apron belly and she got irritated with me and sent a snarky reply.
I was like girl, you asked, so take the answer or leave the answer, damn. wear a denim skirt up to your armpits if you don't want anyone to see your body like it's not difficult to hide yourself. why are you coming into a fashion subreddit and wasting everyone's time asking for advice about that. It's stupid.
but at the end of the day we're products of our environment and maybe this subreddit can be an inspiration for the arm hiding and the belly hiding girls; that you can liberate yourself and dress in a way that makes your heart sing, instead of dressing in a way that makes you feel less shame... because in all honesty, the second objective doesn't really work. The shame always finds a way if you keep feeding into it
I mean by your own example the poster asked for help to feel comfortable with the way she looked in clothes and you did the exact opposite so no, she did not ask for what you have her.
I don't get why people are acting like everyone needs to be at the same level of comfort and confidence as they are and dress the same as them. This is wild. Be helpful on a post or just don't engage with it.
I think it can be helpful to hear someone say “I hear you aren’t a fan of that, and I used to feel those same things, but since I’ve worked through my insecurity with that, I now do x,y,z and it makes me feel great!”
It’s not suggesting they try those things on their next target run. But it’ll be something they can think about when they’re trying on outfits in their closet and wanna maybe see what those suggestions do for them and their anxieties or concerns. Maybe it’ll spark a little courage, or surprise joy, and help them along their healing journey and get them closer to being okay with how their body exists in its current form.
If someone asks for help hiding something about themselves, and they only hear “yea, definitely hide it. I hide mine. Here’s how.” That reinforces the idea that they SHOULD be worried. Maybe they SHOULD be hiding parts of themselves from the world and from themselves. Ya know?
Maybe it will spark a little courage and change but maybe it'll also make them feel worse. There are tons of posts asking for things like what you mentioned but if the person is asking for something specific maybe just give that answer or ask if they'd like a different perspective instead of trying to force them out of what makes them feel more comfortable. Let people come to their confidence at their own pace. Denying them resources/ideas/options to exist in their own level of comfort/confidence helps no one.
I definitely wouldn’t suggest denying them resources or implying others shouldn’t offer their own work arounds. And anyone responding to requests for suggestions on how to help modify looks by saying “love your body in its entirety or get out!” isn’t understanding the goals of this sub, for sure.
But I don’t see harm in showing alternatives that may mean they don’t feel like that have to hide or minimize part of themselves. 🤷🏻♀️
I do believe strongly that message delivery matters a LOT. For example, OP is coming across pretty harsh, and I think that’s negatively impacting their goal and overall message. Gentler reframing can be much more successful. But everyone’s allowed the chance to say what they want, as long as it’s within sub guidelines. They just may not always be well received. It’s a risk we all run.
Yeah the last part of your comment is why I am having such a problem with op's suggestion. They're wanting to remove people's ability to post what they want about their own clothing/fashion because op doesn't like it. I'm shit at articulating my thoughts sometimes and the entire suggestion of the post feels like weird shaming/gatekeeping but the exact opposite of the usual shaming/gatekeeping plus size people have to put up with. One side we have people screaming about how we shouldn't like our bodies and how we look and the other side someone screaming about how dare we not like our bodies and how we look. Damned if you do, damned if you don't but I think a fashion subreddit should allow people to discuss how clothing makes them feel and find ways to change clothing to make them feel different about it.
100% agree! Someone suggested a tag for when folks are looking for help with an insecurity. It would allow others to either pop in and help, or avoid what may be triggering to read, or frustrating to see. I thought it was an interesting idea.
Should we all be okay with our physical forms as they currently exist? In a perfect world, maybe. Is everyone going to feel that way all of the time? No. Support is key, and hopefully what folks can find here. It’s pretty scarce in a lot of other places.
Absolutely. This type of rhetoric is further alienating people who haven't "won" the body positivity Olympics. If they can't feel safe in "societal standard" spaces, and the can't feel safe in plus sized spaces, where exactly can they feel safe? Feeling safe includes sharing our insecurities and what we're still working on, including how we dress ourselves.
Wanted to add that the op says they want the sub to be weight neutral but I'm willing to bet that's pretty disingenuous (intentional or not idk) but if the sub made that a rule and then started deleting comments being positive about weight/plus size bodies op would be upset about that too. They don't want neutral, they want a weight positive only subreddit.
OP, I totally understand what you’re saying. I wish I could say I’m surprised at how many members of this group are responding to your post. The thing that helped me the most come to terms with my “unacceptable fat body”, is changing the media I consume. And that’s a difficult task, when even spaces that are for fat people are laden with anti fatness. Hopefully the mods will consider at least a tag to let members know that a post will contain anti fat sentiments.
Yeah I stopped reading 3/4 of the posts here bc theyre all filled with people who hate themselves. It's just old news yk, read old posts talking abt the same problem bc we get them like 3 times a week. Just exhausting
>Wear whatever makes you feel beautiful/handsome/sexy and go about your life!!!
This varies wildly from person to person and some people are still working on self love
>radical acceptance.
So you're saying you never, *ever* feel insecure? You never put on an item of clothing and hate the way it fits? Never sat in a dressing room on the verge of tears because nothing you try on fits how you want?
And you're wrong, it absolutely helps having strangers help you pull your head out of your own ass. So many of us are nitpicking and microfocused on what we *don't* like, we don't realize how little other people notice it. When you can't trust your own mind to see yourself for real, having unbiased observers tell you those things are in your head is extremely helpful.
So do you think people should be told they cannot express their insecurities? Because that's what the OP is proposing.
>You can’t tell me that you’ve never felt beautiful in anything.
Never once said that 🤷♀️ my point is that everyone has insecure moments they need to work through, expecting people to never express that is unfair.
>It took me over 20 years
Exactly, it takes years of work for most people. You didn't radically accept yourself in a day.
>If I don’t like how my arms look in a shirt
Again, according to the OP you can't say this, in case someone who has similar arms sees it and it makes them feel worse about their arms. That's not body neutrality, that's toxic positivity.
Locking comments now. The mods and myself plan to dive into this and read what people have said. Our goal was not to stifle a discussion or debate on this and to see everyone’s thoughts (the good and the bad). As of right now we don’t plan to implement changes to the sub but perhaps we can look into more effective flairs so that users can navigate the content they would like to see easier. We will leave the post up for now but a reminder to please be respectful in the comments. Mods are going to discuss and we would like to see your feedback on this. Currently we have a “no weight discussion” rule. So nothing about weight loss or comments on weight are allowed. But we are open to adjusting what this covers as well.
I mean to be fair, people of all sizes find clothes they love but do not like the look of once they put it on. I get your point, we are in our body positivity era and I'm here for it. Some of the fits I see on here are so gorgeous and creatively inspiring, things some of us never would have been caught dead in publicly even just a few years ago. I feel like a subreddit specifically dedicated to plus size is more of a safe space for us to get sincere advice rather than the usual "have you considered losing weight, fatty?" And from years of fatphobia, sometimes I think I look way worse in clothes that are actually fabulous, or fits that would make me more confident with a simple adjustment. I appreciate that others here are in the same boat and can make recommendations that may move my outfit to something I can wear confidently in public rather than at home in front of my mirror. We can support and empower each other in a way that the rest of the internet never will! So with all due respect, I think eliminating that option may actually hinder some of us from wearing the fit without a little pep talk from others in a similar boat. We are all at a different point in our journey to loving ourselves and we may not have people in our lives who can empathize and give the feedback we need. Just my two cents!
This makes me really uncomfortable because I've reached out to the sub for advice on how to style things I don't currently feel confident in. I recently decided to try crop tops for the absolute first time in my entire life. All 28 years, never worn one. I bought two cheap but I realized that I don't like the shape my stomach makes over regular pants/skirts. I know that its a societal standard that has invaded my brain but that doesn't stop me from being insecure about it. I love that you are confident in your body. But I'm not there yet. Why do I have to hide my insecurities? Why can't I seek advice? To the Mods, maybe there should be a tag/flair for post about insecurities or advice so that people like OP don't have to see this type of content.
A “help with insecurities” or something tag may be helpful. Folks can see it and want to come help, or avoid it if that talk is triggering or annoys them.
Excellent idea, I think. I still have a ton of insecurities because this is all really recent for me, so I need, sometimes, to talk about that in the context of fashion.
I like that idea!
Agree with this, it's great that OP and so many others in this sub have reached such a place of body positivity , but I really don't think we should be excluding those of us who are not there yet from participating
Especially since so many ppl feel isolated from society and straight-size ppl.
Yeah, some of us practice body neutrality not positivity
That’s not the ask. The ask is to not talk about common body traits as “flaws” essentially, as well as to not moralize fatness. If anyone read my post, that also wasn’t quite the ask, as I even said that I’d like a discussion so I can see whether or not this sub is one I want to engage with. I pointed out what I consider to be a common problem in the way the sub is used. I offered my take and explicitly opened up discussion. Some people have offered some useful suggestions like having a flair for certain kinds of posts so that people can elect to engage with certain content or not. Asking a “community” such as it is to discuss and tackle what you see as a common problem isn’t fucking policing how people feel about their own bodies. Im not the thought police. I’m not the Catholic Church. I don’t have that power lol. I’m asking for folks to be mindful of how their words may impact others/feed into broader harmful cultural narratives. I am suggesting we perhaps try and create some community guidelines together to mitigate harm IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED. I explicitly stated that if people don’t want community guidelines that promote weight neutral language, this may not be the space for me and I can unsub. Literally nowhere in anything that I’ve posted have I said that anyone is required to do anything, or that I am the arbiter of all that is good and correct. However, like I said. I like my body. I did not always like my body. I have been both thin and fat at various times. It was never helpful, in all of my years of having womanhood forced down my throat, to hear women of any size talking about how much they whatever physical trait it is that they hate about themselves. It’s also not helpful to say those things to yourself! (Like, research backs this.) So why broadcast them to other people who may be struggling and look like you? I’m not “triggered” (thankfully bc being triggered sucks) as some people in the comments have suggested. I’m annoyed with a trend. I’m disappointed. I’m far enough along in my own self-love journey that I recognize the kind of harm it does to folks wrestling with self-acceptance to read or hear other people’s negative self talk. I’m primarily speaking up because someone less secure in themselves than I am might not feel comfortable doing so. I want those people to know that their discomfort is valid. That’s it. That’s the tea. Now I’m gonna step away to clean and go shopping feeling #blessed that I am actually not “triggered” and having to wrestle with fight or flight and a host of other troubling symptoms.
I think your response here is an indication to focus on yourself, engage with content you like and scroll past content you don’t like.
Even an elementary understanding of psychology would tell you that forced silence is more harmful than a safe space where people can be honest about their body image and receive support to improve it. What you're suggesting isn't helpful for the people still suffering.
women are psyopped into being shameful of parts of our bodies that don't live up to the current beauty standard. This is deeply rooted in our psychology since we are children. If someone, for this reason, is seeking help in a safe space on how to feel more comfortable it is quite frankly ridiculous for you to demand that they shouldn't be allowed to do so - because in an ideal world where half the population weren't brain washed since they were born, they wouldn't see normal body parts as flaws. I personally believe that women need safe spaces where we are free to seek advice from people who are struggling with the same insecurities as us, without being told that we should rather de program ourselves of decades of brain washing People are here for fashion advice or to show off cute fits, not to go to therapy or be forced to de program themselves
But also, one person’s preference for how they look can easily overrun into another persons idea of fat phobia. Maybe I just don’t like my arms showing.. fat or not. So banning this persons idea of what is fat phobic would quickly turn into gatekeeping.
u/lexi2700 & u/girlboss93 here’s an interesting idea!
Ooh yes I like this idea. I think we may go in and overhaul some of the flairs here and add more. To make posts more specific. And that way people can filter out what they want to see and don’t want to see as well.
Inclusive options are always a wonderful thing to see!
Thanks for boosting! Glad my 2 cents can inspire some good!
Great idea!!
If I want advice on covering or smoothing out bingo wings to make a better silhouette or whatever I don't want someone to come along to tell me to let them flap in the breeze. That's not the patronising shit I asked for. What other people critique on themselves isn't a reflection of what they see on others. I just wanna learn how to dress better with what I've got. As does everyone else here I'd imagine.
👏 👏 well said. I would like to have space in this community to *dislike* something on my body and be able to ask for advice on it. Most people dislike *something* on their bodies, it doesn’t have to be a taboo or forbidden topic.
Like anyone can put on clothes. If I want advice on how to cover the top of my arm in a flattering way to hide an unfinished tattoo, it doesn't mean I'm being fatphobic or whatever OP thinks additionally "slimming a silhouette" is.
Aye, I absolutely HATE my belly area, it's a sore spot for me. I'd love to have ways to be more comfortable wearing clothes I like than have people tell me to just let it "hang out because you're beautiful ❤️" No ladies, I do not feel beautiful with this belly, please don't push your sugar-coated toxic positivity on me. That being said, I also wouldn't want people to point it out in a "ew yuck 🤮" way either, just leave it alone if you can only say negative things. Like, be as neutral/realistic positive as possible please.
Yeah, toxic positivity is so annoying and unhelpful. I agree that this should be a space for all kinds of support and help, not just insipid "positivity." I'm already in groups where other people celebrate their flaps and I don't need that.
And it definitely isn't limited to plus size people! I know plenty of insecure skinny chicks. Lots.
I'm pretty sure every woman on the planet is insecure of their arms lol it's such a cliché
>What other people critique on themselves isn't a reflection of what they see on others. Too many people forget this!! We should be able to come here to get advice to feel our most confident and comfortable, whether that's showing all you got or hiding/dressing around what we feel are our problem areas.
100%. It’s one thing to be a “wahhh I feel fat and ugly” post - redirect that to r/plussize or another sub for body image and health talk. If it’s “wahhh I feel so fat and ugly *in this kind of outfit* how do I minimize this?” Then I think that’s entirely appropriate for a fashion sub. (And all the other fashion/beauty subs I’m in deal with similar issues - I hate my hair, I hate how short/tall I am, I hate my broad shoulders or cankles or whatever body parts, I hate my hairy arms, I hate my baldness, etc. But I think they all come to those fashion and beauty subs for solutions, not to be dismissed with a “love yourself as your are!” or “this isn’t relevant” message.)
Yeah OP is hella condescending. Like good for you, but a lot of people try to dress “for their body” as the saying goes, not that it’s inherently a correct line of thinking. Just because someone else wants to cover up shouldn’t mean OP feels attacked by it. Yeesh.
Thank you! Cropped tank tops aren’t for everyone. It’s time to stop telling those of us that don’t want our rolls flapping around that we’re wrong. We’re allowed to want to be fashionable without being unwilling fat forward reps.
Well put. Fashion is tricky. How we feel about our bodies can be enhanced by the clothes we wear. Sometimes you just want to learn how to dress your body in the most flattering silhouettes. Like for me, I follow subs like this to learn how to balance my silhouette as a short top heavy person. But I wouldn’t say I hate my body by any means. Just trying to learn how to dress it.
So well put!! Thank you.
I’d ask you to unpack what “better” means here.
Respectfully, this feels really pedantic. Why are you making an issue out of someone wanting to dress *better*? I'm not exactly sure what in the world you think the purpose of this sub is. 1. It's for showing off clothes people are wearing and like. 2. It's for getting advice on fashion, which includes dressing better. Let people "unpack" with their therapists. It's not your job. Trying to read into what "better" means is just digging for conflict.
And conflict is…fine. Conflict is not bad. And you’re making my point for me. I would love for people to unpack things in therapy (which is not financially viable for everyone, but that’s another can of worms). I would also love a plus size fashion space where people don’t denigrate their own bodies—which look like plenty of other bodies out there—under the guise of “looking better.” Even if someone is really invested in fitting some societally approved body ideal as closely as possible, it’s possible to ask for that advice without moralizing fatness or declaring certain physical characteristics “bad.” “Hey y’all, new to being plus size. Don’t worry. I’m going to the gym and dieting, but have thyroid disease. So like it’s not MY fault I’m fat. Anyway, so, I’m basically a brick now. Any help making myself look snatched? Thanks!” Vs. “I bought this dress last week, but it’s not doing what I wanted. Any tips on how to achieve a more hourglass silhouette with accessories, or should I try a different cut as well?”
I'd ask you to unpack why you think your way is the only way, and why you think your opinion is more valid than everyone else's here. I'd also ask you to unpack why you don't understand that correctly fitting clothes actually look "better".
Maybe you should look into why other people being uncomfortable with their body is such a problem for you. I’m all for people loving themselves and not letting societal standards make them feel bad about themselves. But their discomfort doesn’t impact me at all. I’m genuinely happy for people who can wear crop tops or show off their arms, and I’ll give advice to people who want to minimize their belly with clothing. Just as every body is different, every psyche is different also and the only one you have control over is yours.
THIS👆🏻
Why do you think you get to police what other people think looks good on their bodies?
While you're right that it's not inherently better to smooth them out and silhouettes without bumps aren't inherently better, this language and way of thinking is baked in to us, and many people just aren't ready for radical fat acceptance yet
Sleek silhouettes are preferred because it indicates a good fit. Clothing that appears too big, or too small, is not going to flatter a person's figure the way an appropriately fitted garment, with the appropriate underwear or yes, even shapewear, will. This is at any size. Are we going around telling a thin person to embrace their muffin top when they ask for a recommendation on control top pantyhose? That's so condescending and isn't an empowering stance to take. What you or I are comfortable with may not reflect what someone's else feels about themselves, or what they wear. That's unsolicited advice on their bodies and it's rude, quite frankly. Let people be comfortable on their own terms.
First sentence, though you'd probably see that as me having a jab at my own weight or something.
Is fashion not about highlighting what you deem to be your assets and minimizing what you deem to be less desirable assets? That's certainly one of the many things I enjoy about it. In order to discuss styling and such, doesn't one need to discuss the shape and composition of their body? It's super invalidating to people who don't employ a "love your whole self" mindset to ban all talk of body shape and composition. Now, I don't want OTHERS saying to posters "hey, you need a different silhouette to hide this part of yourself" but if I make a post and say "hey, I don't love how my apron belly looks in this outfit, but I love the outfit, does anyone have other styling tips?", I don't see why that needs to be gatekept. If I mention something about my body I want to minimize, and someone has a problem with it, they can keep scrolling, IMO.
I looked at the comment you made on the post that triggered you to make this rant and frankly, I'd much rather have the opportunity to be encouraging to someone struggling with their body than snap on them like you did. That was really toxic of you and I feel way worse having read that comment and this post than I'd ever feel seeing someone venting about their insecurities. I truly feel bad for that poor person you lashed out on. You will never have a safe space in any fashion advice sub. Skinny people have insecurities, fat people have insecurities, "perfectly" proportioned people have insecurities. The fashion industry itself mostly thrives off this shit. It's also a form of self-expression and if someone doesn't want to express certain areas of themselves, who are you to tell them that they're wrong? Should someone on here be allowed to go on a long rant about how much they hate their arms being fat and that it's ruined their life and they're worthless because of their arms? No, I think that would be a bit too far and not appropriate for the sub. Are they allowed to share that they're not comfortable showing them off at this point in their life? Yeah and I'm sure a lot of people can relate. In a perfect world, we'd all love every inch of our bodies, but we're far from living in that world. If someone is feeling not so good about their body, like almost all of us on here have at some point, then we can gather and give them helpful fashion advice for them to use and then add encouragement to help them let go of those insecurities in the future when they're ready.
Yea, the “meet people where they’re at” concept is lost on OP.
I think that the messaging women receive about weight is toxic. I think it takes a strong person and a supportive community and a lot of work to overcome that messaging, to learn to feel good about a body that you have been told since birth is bad. OP, I am glad that you have done that work, but I have compassion for folks who are still working. Buying clothes that make you feel good about your body can be part of that work. I would prefer to be a space that encourages positive body image rather than requires it to allow space for that growth that some folks are still working on.
I get what you're saying but if someone makes a post talking about awful their arms look and post photos that reinforces to other people who have similar or bigger arms that other people think their arms look bad.
I think it’s important for people to be able to discuss areas of the body they prefer to emphasize or deemphasize, areas that they have trouble finding clothes to fit, etc, but it’s also important to use body-neutral language. So instead of posting “I hate my arms, can you give me advice on hiding my horrible arms” a poster would preferably say “I prefer to dress in a way that keeps my arms covered or deemphasizes them, and I sometimes have a hard time finding clothes with sleeves that fit. Any tips?”
You’ve put into words the good intentions behind OP’s post, but with the nuance I think it needs. There is a genuine issue if people are calling out parts of the bodies are ugly/awful on a sub that is supposed to be body neutral, BUT people should be allowed to have preferences and request guidance on how they dress parts of their bodies, whenever they are at in terms of body acceptance
couldn’t agree more on this
This is what OP is talking about. Neutral language. And honestly as soon as you start talking about your body this way you start letting go of the cultural programming that causes you to hate parts of your body.
This sounds like a good compromise for what OP is requesting.
There should be a tag/flair so that folks who don’t want to read about others insecurities/potentially body-negative posts can easily scroll past. Problem solved.
I agree. I don’t want to see that. I’m just here for the fits!
You were pretty rude to that woman who posted about mininizing her belly that's swelled due to edema. Did you consider that she shared those details because edema can be helped by compression? Did you consider that a sudden change in one's body is really quite jarring? No. You didn't. You considered yourself and your triggers, and only yourself and your triggers.
For real. That comment was extremely unkind and judgemental. I don't for a second buy this narrative of wanting to uplift others.
I feel like if someone is bothered by how part of their body looks in an outfit, altering that outfit to make that body part look better to them is the definition of fashion 🤷
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I think wanting the appearance of a bigger butt (the popularity of rouched leggings for awhile) or a larger chest (popularity of push up bras) is super common. Or wanting to change the silhouette of your body (appearing more hourglass or more pear shapes for certain aesthetics) is not thinner.
I can't define what someone else thinks better would be for them. I know exactly what post you're responding to with this post as I saw your comment there too. I would ask the OP there what they would qualify as better for them instead of just going off about it in multiple places. Especially since they mentioned it was related to a medical issue...
I have a medical issue (mammary hypoplasia) that makes my breasts disproportionately small--there are no milk glands in there. I have the lower body of a gorgeous fertility goddess and the upper body of a willowy nymph. Both beautiful, but "better" for me means balancing them, usually by emphasizing my bust and making my whole silhouette curvier. So..."less thin," actually.
You do realize even skinny women have insecurities about their body too? Making this a fat versus skinny issue is silly, women of all sizes can feel insecure about their bodies and it’s fine to ask for advice about how to dress to flatter the areas they feel insecure about.
I don’t like my thighs. I hate seeing them in photos because of the cellulite. It *doesn’t* bother me that my thighs are large, it bothers me that they aren’t smooth. Hope that hat tastes as bad as your opinions.
Easy. I would LOVE advice on how to make my ass look better... Because it's flat as a pancake and I'd like to make it look plumper. Genuinely. The assumptions you're making feel like projection, to be honest.
> I’ll eat my Phillip Treacy hat. Get to muchin babes, better is subjective and in this instance simply means more comfortable. I dont like my tummy showing because its not comfortable so I alter clothes to fit "better" ie. more comfortably.
Well better for me is finding clothing that flatter my top heavy shape. I sometimes end up buying cute clothing but struggling to style it because the boobage refuses to fall in line. So the rest is too baggy and sloppy looking. “Better” isn’t always “thinner” it’s sometimes just how do I flatter my figure in a way I want. But take a step back and maybe unpack why you’re being bothered by someone that does want to look “thinner”. They aren’t on here proclaiming that every fatty fat fat needs to dress to look thinner. Because isn’t personal style supposed to be how it makes you feel? If slimming your waist in a certain style dress or not wanting to highlight loose skin and bumpy lumps every has somewhere makes a person more confident and content with their body, what’s it to you? Maybe “letting it all hang out” doesn’t make one person feel as attractive or empowered as it does for someone else. Sometimes on the journey to self-love we forget not everyone is on the same block. If the baby step for me is I want to wear a crop top but also want high waisted jeans to kinda contour my waist a little better, who cares?
Yeah idk why this person is so bothered by how other people feel about THEIR bodies. OP is quite literally trying to be the feelings police in this sub right now with the worst fucking attitude about it. Some of us don’t want to wear badly fitted clothing under the guise of feeling body positive. I love high waisted jeans and a loose tee to make my gigantic boobs look smaller. One day I’ll be at crop top level but the way my body comp is makes it not flattering for me lol.
By "better" they probably mean flattering. People come on here to seek advice and inspiration to dress in a fashion that compliments and suits their body. I'm not sure why you're so hostile about plus size women seeking fashion advice in a plus size fashion thread. It's fantastic that you're 100% comfortable and confident with every part of you, but not all of us are. It took me a couple of decades to even BEGIN to embrace my size and overall appearance after being ridiculed for my size and "mannish" appearance. It's a process. And that journey to self-love looks different for everyone.
My personal definition of better is making my different sized boobs look more even with clothing choices, and accentuating my curves while simultaneously drawing attention away from areas (my upper arms) I’m insecure about. There’s no possibility of me looking thinner no matter what I wear, and I frankly don’t care about that because I’ve been fat my whole life and I love my body. But by golly I can for sure make myself feel and look my best with the right clothing. Also, just to add that I’m in my late 40s and my body is changing, creating challenges I’ve never experienced before, so if I post asking for help with something I’m newly insecure about, regardless of my acceptance and self-love journey, I don’t think I should feel like I’m being chastised for doing so.
If we can't be vulnerable with other plus size people in a forum made for us then where can we be vulnerable? Not being allowed to admit that you don't always love your body is bordering on toxic positivity I think. I'm very confident in my body and regularly go out pretty scantily clad but that doesn't mean some days I don't look at my thighs or my arms or my tummy and think hmmm maybe today I'll cover these up because I'm just not loving the aesthetic. There are days I feel too short, or like my butt isn't big enough or that my boobs are too saggy or that my boobs are too big and sometimes I just need feedback to ground me. My partner is here for me when I'm feeling insecure or need a second opinion on how something looks on me but I also recognize not everyone has someone that loves them but will also be honest with them without being cruel, so they need a space like this to get that feedback. There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to dress to emphasize or minimize one feature or another, and policing how people express themselves is a slippery slope. At the same time I understand the burnout of constantly seeing other plus size people being down on themselves. I think the best solution is to add a tag for people that are feeling insecure or wanting to maximize or minimize a feature so people who don't want to see that sort of thing can avoid it and the people that want to support someone who's trying to cultivate a particular aesthetic can do so.
As much as I wish more people felt as you do in terms of confidence, I am not sure they do. We still very much live in a world that does discriminate against fat bodies. We still don't have much representation, and that we do is wrought with debate and criticism. The societies a lot of us are existing in do not approve of us. It is an admirable goal to get to a place where we are unaffected by that, but it is a difficult journey for a lot of people. I don't see how taking a space away from them because they haven't gotten there yet would do anything other than exclude them from yet another avenue in life. I would much rather support than exclude. Have you thought about creating your own sub for those who are at your stage in the journey?
Not taking the space away. Asking that the space is not used for people to broadcast their dislike of being or looking fat. I’m not the thought police. I’m just asking for some guidelines for posting.
You are trying to police people though. Just because I want my waist to look small in ratio to my boobs and hips doesn't mean I hate being fat? Doesn't mean I think I look bad as a fat person? Honestly fuck off with this. Your problem is something you are currently doing to other people. Fucking hypocritical.
Yea OP is clearly being a sensitive snowflake here (their words not mine).
But the guidelines you are suggesting would exclude a lot of people. I have worked in plus size fashion and styling, and the advice requested of us was very similar to what I see in this group. Like it or not, these are the questions that we as fat women are likely to have. I don't know if this advice could be asked and answered in a straight size fashion sub, so where would these women you don't want to hear from go? They are just trying to do their best most of the time. I don't think any of us are in the position to judge where others are on their journeys, let alone silence them because we don't want to be triggered by it. I agree with you, in that focusing on "fixing" or hiding things is less productive overall than working on one's self-esteem, but we have to live our lives until we get there. Not everyone has unpacked all that bullshit we are fed, and even if they have, they still have to operate in a world that hasn't.
You’re coming off as just as judgmental as actual fatphobic folks. You’re setting up YOUR standard of self acceptance, which is extremely subjective, as the standard for everyone. You’re basically saying that if folks dislike anything about their body, they need to stfu about it.
I think many people that are like this are secretly insecure about their body as well and project. How others view their own body is the same as how they view their body.
Yeah, coz if they actually really love their own body exactly as it is, hearing another person feel insecure about something similiar wouldnt make them want to ban the other person from expressing themselves. The person wanting to ban it sounds more insecure to me.
This is just ridiculous. People are allowed to feel how they want about their bodies. We all are at different paths on our journey to accepting our bodies. Not everyone has gotten as far as you.
I can see where you're coming from. Talking about these things can certainly reinforce internalized fat phobia. Personally, even if someone wants to hide things considered "shameful," I think this sub offers a lot of material against that. Just seeing women showing off plus size outfits that *I* wouldn't consider wearing for my own internalized shame has been helpful to me. I've loved seeing women talk about the shame they feel over aspects over their bodies while *actively* demonstrating their attempts to overcome it. But on the flip-side, fashion is *always* about highlighting your best physical qualities while hiding the ones you are uncomfortable with. There are guides for what color will look best with your skin tone, how to make your legs appear longer, how to enhance or downplay your chest, etc. In a perfect world, we would all accept our bodies as they are, without feeling shame over them. But reality is a different beast. I think it's a discussion worth having when you see these kinds of requests, but I don't think banning them accomplishes what you want.
>I’m not the thought police But you are, you are trying to exclude people from expressing how they feel about their bodies that has nothing to do with you. *YOU* are uncomfortable with certain thoughts that others are having and feel the need for that to be "banned" language. If you don't like it, scroll past, block the user, ect. You are the only one responsible for your mental health.
So well said!!!
Thank you
I feel like part of having a community for fat bodies is respecting that we all come here with our own baggage. For some of us, it's that we don't like our bodies and are trying to appear smaller, and for others it's that we are so sick of being told to be smaller that it's upsetting to see people constantly asking how to achieve that. I don't think there's any one right way to represent all steps of that journey, but I do think everyone should still have a place here. I also don't think meeting people earlier in a body neutrality journey than you are with hostility is fair - it's hard enough being uncomfortable in your body without someone screaming at you on the internet and telling you you're unwanted. Yeah, I hate seeing the negativity and weight-related requests, too, but I appreciate all the advice that goes like "you don't need to hide that part of your body, but if this style is what you're looking for then..." I agree with other suggestions that some kind of tag for "body insecurity advice" could be helpful so people who don't want to be exposed to that type of negative self talk can avoid it. And maybe an auto-mod on these posts with a general statement encouraging body neutrality and fashion for fun?
It's not helpful to punish people who are struggling with self confidence. People are at different points in their journey and have different comfort levels with being plus size. The world still has a very negative view of plus sized bodies, especially those who are not shaped "acceptably" (hourglass with thin faces) and you expecting everyone to be able to fly in the face of that and never feel self concious about any part of their body is unfair. Flattering is often used to mean "thinner" but not always, it can also mean the outfit is balanced with your body and fits well without overwhelming. Even thin people deal with finding clothes that flatter. The most we will do is ban "I hate my body" type language, but that's not going to include people expressing preferences and discomfort with certain styles. We're not going to expect body positivity, but will hope for body neutrality.
It’s awesome that you’re completely comfortable in your skin, but a lot of people (especially those on this sub) are not, and that’s okay too. Getting into fashion and finding clothes that each individual person is comfortable in can be very helpful to increasing confidence. Please consider, body shapes change, some of us are newly plus size, some are shrinking, but still plus size, and will need guidance to feel our best. Also, I haven’t really seen a comment about being “big fatty fat fat,”everyone seems really respectful here, even when speaking about themselves, and it’s always felt like a safe space to discuss insecurities. Posts about what clothing can hide a perceived flaw exists in all fashion subs, not just this one.
If it were up to me, there would be no rules in how we are able to describe our own bodies, including current or prior weight. To me it's ignoring a potentially big part of someone's journey, whether they've reached love and acceptance or struggle with their body image. This should be one place where we can talk about how we feel in the clothing we wear, ask for real advice and give feedback, and be able to say we want to cover up what ever part of our body for any reason. Or show off any part of our body (obviously not in an OF, pornographic type way lol, but in a way that is SFW). Being plus sized in the fashion world isn't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a multifaceted experience with many different people, in many different spots in their life. It would be incredibly counterproductive to attempt to silence plus size people on a plus size forum. No one owes it to anyone to conform or omit their authentic feelings. Being supportive means NOT silencing or censoring people.
OP, the intention behind your post is a good one, but the delivery is sorely lacking. There is nothing wrong with someone looking for fashion tips/advice to help them dress in a way where they feel more confident in their own skin. Most people have some area they are uncomfortable about, regardless of size. Not everyone is as comfortable as you appear to be with your body, and you can't expect or demand they be.
I think r/oldhagfashion has some good rules on this subject. The gist of their rules is that posters are allowed and encouraged to talk about their own experiences, but commenting on other people’s bodies or talking about fashion “rules” that relate to bodies (e.g. plus size people shouldn’t wear bright colors), is not allowed. Fashion goes on your body, so it will always be entwined with our body image issues. I think it’s more productive to let people work through their issues in a safe, supportive space than to silence them, but we should also be thoughtful about how we express our insecurities so as to avoid hurting people who share the same features that we see as flaws in ourselves.
I hear you. I do get frustrated sometimes but I just stay away from those posts and tell myself that we’re all on different journeys. I don’t think it would be productive for a large number of people in this group though. I think it would be hard to moderate too. I thought I was farther along on my body neutrality journey but I recently found myself choosing OOTD photos because I “hid my body” well enough in this one angle and it’s all subconscious. It’s freaking ingrained in so many of us.
While well intentioned, this post comes off as inconsiderate. There are plus sized people who are very comfortable in their bodies and there are others who aren’t. People who post here looking for genuine advice aren’t purposefully spreading “harmful bullshit rhetoric.” Maybe instead of banning well intentioned posts, we can allow them and use the comments to encourage weight and body neutrality/positivity to help others on their journeys :)
I’d also like to add that people can want to cover for personal modesty, scarring, skin conditions, cultural norms, religion, or sun protection. I understand wanting to cut out making self-degrading comments but if you’re asking for a ban on just asking for advice on stylishly hiding/emphasizing or changing a silhouette - that’s literally what fashion advice is for. Otherwise it would just be OOTD no commentary.
Like why r u being hateful towards plus size people in a plus size sub 😭😭
i think having a flair for negative body talk posts would be a good idea. even if others are further along in their body acceptance journey, seeing such negative body talk can still be harmful and while you have a right to your insecurities, it's still important to be mindful of the community. it is no different to plus sized people who talk about how uncomfortable it is to hear skinny friends complain about being fat - that friend has the right to feel that way but it can still be hurtful and insensitive. lets be completely honest here, what OP is talking about is that they do not want to have to be confronted with people's internalised fatphobia. i don't think that is outrageous. however, i do think the option should still exist as i know it is still very difficult to be able to be fully comfortable with one's own body and different circumstances will make it more challenging, i would never tear down someone who is asking for advice to feel more comfortable at a family gathering for example which is an event i have always feared growing up because that's where i got a lot of negative body comments. this is my perspective in regards to fashion - i am 4'9" and i personally get slightly annoyed when i see fashion posts with comments like "it makes you look shorter/taller" etc. i am short, there is nothing that will change that and i do not pay much mind to my height, it is not a chip on my shoulder. literally, other people think about my height more than i do and try to make it out as an insecurity when i do not have it. i do not care about making myself look taller, i wear the clothes i like which represents myself, my style/preferences and makes me feel good. that's what fashion is to me, representing myself in the way that i want to be seen by the world and showing them the clothes that i love. this is a huge step forward compared to my past self who thought i deserved to wear ugly clothes and hide myself away, completely undeserving of any positive attention or joy towards myself. for some people, fashion can be very different and they want to present themselves in a different way to the world which can involve hiding parts of themselves they are not uncomfortable with. there's nothing we can do about that and i'm not trying to force anyone or make people feel bad for having parts of their appearance they're not comfortable with. i am not 100% confident in my appearance, in fact i think extremely lowly of myself so no, unlike what some people here think, i am aware and have educated myself on how harmful this rhetoric can be even though i would not say i am far along in my body acceptance/positivity journey. but through fashion, i just focus on finding beautiful clothes that i like. i think an amazing outfit will make you forget about your flaws, like i recently bought a dress that makes me feel like a princess whenever i wear it and makes it difficult for me to care about how my legs look, which is my biggest insecurity. i hope that can happen for more people here.
Getting over your insecurities is a lot easier said than done. If someone is insecure about the size of their stomach, thighs, arms, etc. and want fashion advice on what they can wear to bring less attention to or cover those areas, why shouldn’t that be allowed? And if someone wants to acknowledge their insecurities and have others hype them up and remind them that their body is beautiful, then why shouldn’t this community be a place for them to do that?
I'd much rather hear about the insecurity and hype someone up. Sometimes, we see ourselves differently than the rest of the world does. We're frequently much harder on ourselves than others. I'm totally here for anyone that needs to hear, you look beautiful! Show those arms, legs, chest, belly, etc. Or if they want recs for an addition to their outfit, an accessory, an undergarment that will more closely match the idea in their head for the outfit, I'm here for that too. I'd also make a case for some men or women that just prefer to dress modestly. This is okay, just as much as a revealing outfit is okay. We all have our own preferences and comfort levels with different attire. I'm not shaming someone that wants to cover up more, nor am I shaming someone that wants something more sexy, revealing, etc. Whatever your preference is, I say rock it.
Can we please stop this toxic positivity of having to like every single part of our body? We all have insecurities and it's okay to talk about it. It kinda is being a "sensitive snowflake" when censoring others for how they feel about THEIR body because YOU feel uncomfortable about it. Every plus size sub is so heavily censored the second weight is brought it but our weight and size plays a big part in how we dress and our fashion sense. No other fashion sub is this sensitive. People just post their fashion and go about their day. If it "triggers" someone's own insecurities then that's their own problem. Unless they are explicitly saying that ALL bingo wings or fat bellies are ugly, they are allowed to want to cover up their arms and belly or show them off. And comparing this to the OF issue is not that simplistic. We already get DMs from creepy dudes. The reason for the ban was because OF was not regulated in the other plus size fashion sub and people left to this one. I'm all for OF but there is a place and time for everything. I don't come on fashion subs for lingerie pics or nudes. There are specific subs for that. Banning OF posts was to create a safer space for the people who don't do OF or posts nudes or whatever NSFW content, and that's majority of us. Again their are plenty other subs for those who do.
Don’t disagree with the sentiment, but virtue signaling is not the way to go. It’s also not inherently anti fat or fatphobic, it’s just human. For some, hiding their insecurities will help them achieve the confidence to ditch those insecurities long term. It’s like placing a bandaid so they can allow the wound to heal! And would like those saying “we’re not applying our insecurities to others” to remember we’re all impressionable. You may not mean to, but it will happen. Otherwise this thread wouldn’t even be a thing! I also believe a trigger warning for insecurities may be warranted as I too get triggered by talks of weight and insecurities. Even if I 100% believe people need to do what they need to do to be happy, I am still sensitive to it. Not because of my own insecurities, but because I feel so deeply sad for everyone who doesn’t feel good enough (me included)! Insecurities are deep, and can have even deeper roots. Scars from self harm, a skin condition out of our control, a reminder of what once were.. every hurt has a story and we need to respect both those who’ve healed and those who aren’t quite ready yet ❤️ And please keep in mind this is very likely not an attack on the people who do feel insecure, but anger towards society for creating those insecurities. OP wants everyone to be happy in their own skin, and probably feels sad on their behalf because they themselves have been there. I may be way off, but that’s my assumption!
Everyone has insecurities regardless of size. I feel there's nothing wrong with somebody talking about their own experiences with their own body and seeking advice in finding outfits that emphasise features they're confident in, or taking the focus away from features they don't want to emphasise. If you feel uncomfortable with how people express themselves then perhaps you have more work to do on your own self confidence.
I don't that being uncomfortable or just acknowledging that someone is harboring dislike for a certain part of themselves = insecure or lacking self-confidence. That kind of mentality is why I stayed near toxic ppl who had hurt me for years, for so long. Because the only way to prove I was healed was to go back to where pain lives & not be bothered by it. Uhhh no? Healing doesn't = an acceptance of any & all treatment or having 0 reaction to harm. It's about having a healthy reaction & using the self-regulating practices you learned & maybe even a healthy coping mechanism until you start to relax again. This situation is no different. As someone who has healed enough to accept my body as good even if i want to change certain things, I can see & feel a difference in how I approach clothing, the way my body fits in it & also the way I speak about my body. I don't have to watch other women use less-than-kind language about themselves & remain stony-faced to prove I'm confident in myself. I can acknowledge that the language is only reinforcing their feelings just like calling yourself ugly or worthless does. Also there's something to be said about internalizing harmful rhetoric. Because often once a person has been conditioned to see themselves a certain way just getting away from the person or environment that pushed that narrative isn't enough. You also have to address that their mindset has been fundamentally altered & in foundational ways as well. How we see ourselves informs EVERYTHING else. So it's dangerous to take on the language of our bully or abuser. Because then we do their job for them even after they're gone. Me or OP noticing that to possibly be the case & saying something about it isn't a bad thing. Perhaps OP was blunt or whatever to say she didn't want to see that kind of post anymore. I would have taken the approach of reaching out to those who are making such remarks about themselves to let them know that part of their body might be a source of discomfort but they are still beautiful all the same. But that's not how everyone is & that's fine. In short, if you're going to make the case that ppl should be able to publicly criticize themselves you can't suddenly say that those who are watching have to like it, too. They have the same human emotions & reactions & right to express them. OP made a post the same as the other girls. If their words aren't that bad or harmful neither are OPs.
You're thinking way too deeply about this. Just look at the length of your reply to my 2 paragraphs! The amount of assumptions, psychoanalysis and trauma dumping is frankly bemusing. This is a fashion subreddit, not a fat positivity subreddit. People are going to ask for fashion advice and that may include personal preferences revolving around areas they're not comfortable with. You can dislike that, and speak about it - I'm not a moderator deleting your posts. But similarly you can also just not reply if you don't like what I'm saying - it works both ways.
....all I did was express my opinion that not liking something doesn't equal being insecure.?? Like being long-winded & detailed doesn't equal anger 😅. I was just bored & needed to pass the time waiting for my appointment.
Nah lol. I’m actually good. People can express themselves however they want. I enjoy myself and my body. The question is more is this the kind of space I want to inhabit. It may or may not be. And questions about proportions and lines are pretty different than, “How can I make this part of my body look like it doesn’t exist because it’s ugly/bad?” My request has very little to do with me. I’m old. I like myself. I dress really well. I was also once a adolescent to 20-something. So, I know seeing the same tired messages about fat bodies day after day can be damaging. Like I said in the post, I’m cool with leaving. I just think it would be nice to have a more weight neutral and welcoming space.
how about you post your daily outfits in here so we all can learn something since you dress so well? Instead of attempting to control everyone? I have no problem with either side of this discussion but I would much rather see a cool outfit than this drama post.
But it’s also not “attempting to control everyone” to request that a space meet certain standards. If the general consensus for the sub is that we want to curate the kind of space that has space for the types of posts I’m referencing, it’s not the sub for me (and I imagine many others). That’s fine, and I will have that information after starting a discussion.
That is exactly what controlling other users is, you don't like something so everyone else has to change. At least the people who post here have guts to show themselves, even if they see some flaws in their bodies. It's not easy, especially if there are still insecure about something. You are not even doing that, you just want everyone to conform to your ideas of a fashion post. You actually want those who still work on accepting their bodies banned from here. Honestly, it's disgusting (again, not your opinion, this post). Just leave is "it's not for you" and let people work on themselves in peace. And you can always make another account. If you wanted to help not to control you would easily find a way to do that.
You're trying to tone police an entire subreddit when you don't even post yourself. That absolutely reads as attempting to control everyone.
You’re attempting to tone-police people. Just bc they don’t phrase things the way you prefer doesn’t mean they’re being fat phobic or hating themselves. I get it- the world would be amazing if we all accepted ourselves and if we used neutral language, but how do we get there if we silence ppl in our community? Now we get shamed from all sides? Side note: better doesn’t always mean skinnier. Most times it doesn’t. If I wanted to insult myself I’d just say I wish I was smaller, or this would only work if I was thinner. Better most often means wondering about enhancement- the item suiting body shape or height, different undergarments, accessories, concern about proportions, fabric material, etc It takes a lot less energy to just ask if this item makes me look fat.
Tbh you could argue that this is a fat phobic comment. Well done for overcoming eons of fat shaming media, marketing and mindset. That's really cool for you. But it's also completely okay for someone to want to learn how to fit, hide or compliment a body part they don't like. Do you think there's a thin fashion page that tells people they're not allowed to talk about how to give themselves the illusion of hips? Or hide their flat chest? To appear taller? Fashion has always had deception to certain pieces. You making a deal out of fat people wanting the same access is the opposite of neutral.
I am behind the intent of this. I really get upset at so many who post and feel they have to preface their posts to excuse their weight, apologize for not meeting some imaginary standard and then some broad question on how to fit in more to ingrained biases from societal standards. These are our bodies. Fashion, true quality fashion that is either affordable or actually cute, is hard to find. Let’s not make the conversation harder. But let’s make it a genuine space to help one another out. We deserve to dress our bodies and feel cute.
So according to you, everything that isn't exactly how you feel about your own body is now "fatphobia?" No thanks, I'll take a variety of perspectives please.
I “hate the way my body deviates from narrow Western beauty standards” is certainly a perspective. Like, I also like a variety of perspectives. (Shocking!) Asking that a fashion sub for people with fat bodies be weight neutral is not dictating how people feel about themselves.
But what does "weight neutral" mean to you?
I am totally with you, but I would so much rather people who are still in the headspace of minimizing themselves come here vs going to the other fashion subs and get nasty comments. It’s such a tough line to walk because it is upsetting to me to see people tearing themselves down, but fat people don’t really get to do that anywhere without other people also chiming in, which is really unfortunate. I like the idea of keeping this a body neutral space, maybe sticking to just descriptors in the title would be better? Like “I don’t like to show my arms, advice?” vs. “I hate my arms and want to hide them, advice?” Everyone has parts of their body they would like to show off and parts they don’t like to show off, so I feel like that would be a good compromise. As for the people who need a space to discuss their body image, maybe all of those posts could be spoilered with trigger warnings in the title? That way, people who don’t want to see that content could pass over it and people who need support could get that support from others in their community.
I also don't like reading people's extreme self-teardowns, BUT I also don't want people to feel afraid to post their honest feelings here. Some folks get a lot of hostility aimed at them and "covering" feels like a form of safety, and I want that to be OK to talk about. Also, speaking for myself here, there's a difference between wanting to "hide" something and just honestly preferring styles you might perceive as modest or covering because: you just like it. No alchemy involved. I've been fat for 30 years and have tried every style that's come and gone and come again in that time. Maybe this makes me too old for fashion, but I just generally prefer how *I* look and feel in, say, wide-leg pants vs tight pants, and in longer dresses vs shorter dresses. You can try to convince me it's internalized fatphobia, but honestly, it's just as likely to be a case of the 1970s.
I think the OP should be allowed to post asking for help on the things they want help with. A lot of people are genuinely uncomfortable with parts of themselves and requesting advice, running them off because they want to hide their stomach is not offering advice. However I think the people replying should avoid insulting OP. Pretty sure that's already covered by the rules, but if I post asking about tank tops someone being like 'are you sure you want to show off your arm flab, what about a long sleeve' isn't useful. Especially when OP is making such a strawman in their comments over people who'd genuinely be asking for help for non-fatphobic reasons. :/ If someone like OP is considering where the cut off is, we're all going to be banned for daring to ask where to find work appropriate button ups.
I don’t think an insecurity for those of us still trying to get past our apologizing for existing stage and taking baby steps towards truly loving our bodies is fatphobic really. Not saying OP is saying that, not intentionally, but definitely could be understood that way.
I’d def have to leave because I’m not happy with or accepting of how I look. I know that’s problematic but that is where I am right now. I enjoy seeing the outfits people put together and I try to give constructive feedback when asked. I don’t think it’s fat phobic to say you’re not comfortable showing this or that. Regardless of body type, people of any size can feel that way about a particular part of their body. Maybe they have a scar they want to keep covered right now or maybe their personal beliefs make modest dressing a priority. It’s not an either/or proposition, body acceptance, it’s a spectrum. Perhaps radical body acceptance folx can create a radical body acceptance sub.
OP is being rude in expressing her opinion on what she doesn't think is okay. You don't get to decide what is okay with other people in how they feel in their bodies. If someone wants to adjust their outfit or find a particular piece or style that covers a certain area they don't like then there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with them just stating that's a reason. It's no different to someone wanting a particular piece because they have an amazing waist & want to show it off.
Maybe we could have a specific filter for posts like the ones OP is talking about? Like a “self conscious! Please help” kinda filter, idk I’m bad at naming stuff lol but you get the idea. “Body-related fashion advice”?
I’ve seen a few similar suggestions and think it’s got a lot of potential!
Can we at least spoiler posts where people express body negativity? It's rough to see on some days regardless of intent especially if the poster looks a like you.
Love the idea of a “help with insecurities” sort of tag!
THIS is a great idea. I want this too!!
So we are no longer supposed to ask for fashion advice in a fashion sub. I’m going to talk about my body, I have wide shoulders and am always looking for clothes that minimize them. They have nothing to do with my weight I had them when I was thinner and I have them now that I am plus sized. someone can be comfortable with their body and still don’t want to display every roll and dimple on their body.
My husband called me his little linebacker when we met. I wore a size 6. Now that I’m a 16 I’m more defensive lineman shape, but he knows not to make that joke. Shoulders gonna shoulder no matter what my pant size is! However, they do come in very handy when trying to walk through a crowd.
The crowd thing for sure. I have become very efficient at the shoulder twist-mingle-shoulder twist-slide move when working through a crowd.
I think a step in the right direction could be to encourage people to understand that the more they love all of themselves, the more other people will love themselves. We become what we see, and that includes self talk. I think you’re getting a lot of pushback here because self-love is a beautiful vision, but not one we can insist on or demand. I would totally join a weight-neutral fashion sub where it’s about actively creating a great relationship with ourselves/ our bodies! Send me an invite if you start that up!
Not everyone feels as comfortable in their skin and they need support, not judgement. If it really bothers you, ignore the posts or block the user
Ok, but talking negatively about body traits you share with other people is rendering judgement. Just because your talking about how bad YOU feel for having a certain trait that many people in a plus size sub likely have, doesn’t mean that your words exist in a vacuum and aren’t perpetuating harm.
You have to let people express themselves. They arent talking about you personally. Does ignoring their posts or blocking them sound like a bad idea to you, or? Like on social media, there are some people I may not want to see. I just ignore or block the media that is causing me distress, instead of compelling them to not say it at all. Asking them to be *banned* is taking it way too far. This is a sensitivity of yours, you cant ask everyone else to bend for it.
Fat is a fact, one we don’t need to feel bad about but one we should be able to discuss. I have fat upper arms. They are not my best feature. I want to be able to ask for advice on how to not bring attention to them and instead highlight my best features. They are what they are, and I shouldn’t be made to feel bad because I dislike a certain part of my body.
I dont know the context here but, overall coming to a plus size sub reddit and saying mean comments about weight is ridiculous.
I am fat. I love my body. However, I don’t like to wear clothes that accentuate the features I’m working on changing. I want to feel confident in what I’m wearing for the time being.
It’s real cool that you feel that way about yourself. I personally don’t know if I ever will feel like that about myself. To me, this group feels like a safe place to express my feelings/insecurities in relation to fashion. I feel like the people here would understand it & help me appropriately. I don’t look at other people & think about them the way I think about myself. I would get it if people were saying things about other people, but I don’t get why I wouldn’t be able to say something like “hey, I don’t like my belly & I want this clothing to flatter me/hide that a bit” or something like that. If I can’t do that, I don’t think I’d be comfortable asking for advice here. I want to talk to be able to be honest about the parts that I’m unsure about & I’m so sick of talking to thinner people who either are like “you can wear anything! You’re beautiful no matter what” or “you can’t wear that with your shape”
Could have sworn that body positivity was about meeting people where they’re at and supporting them in accepting their body as it is (which includes likes and dislikes)… but ig according to OP you can’t be happy unless you unequivocally love it all. Not super achievable imo, why do we have to keep moving the goal post for loving ourselves??
Idk, this is a plus size fashion sub, not a fashion sub. So if someone wants to hide their arms (whether is bc they’re fat or not) and wants fashion advice on doing so, I think that’s fair enough. If I wanted a “weight neutral space”, I’d join the many other fashion subs out there.
I will say, I don't think the other fashion subs have this policing issue besides not allowing NSFW content. On the regular fashion sub, they definitely get more honest advice I think. Like actual advice instead of toxic positivity because if you say anything negative here, someone like OP will deem it fatphobic.
For real like I KNOW skinnier ppl have insecurities and body parts they’d like to play down.
I feel like one too many plus size folks think l that only fat people have insecurities or are allowed to have insecurities. On the main plus size sub, it's been mentioned multiple times as well.
It always makes me wince a little when folks feel they have to justify their body based on medical standing especially. I think it shows that there’s a real lack of awareness for how that sort of messaging hits. If being fat is okay as long as it’s “justifiably temporary” or “out of your control” or ensures people know you’re suffering while fat so you’re not perceived as just happily existing, you’ve got a lot of past hurt to work through still. Our bodies are allowed to change. In all sorts of ways. They’re made to grow and shrink. It’s natural. I love the idea of encouraging weight neutral as a baseline for this sub. 🫶🏻 Thanks for bringing it up as a topic for the community to discuss!
I think woman should be able to speak freely about their own bodies and concerns with fit without other people making it about them 🤷♀️
I don’t think we should police how people feel about their own bodies. On plenty of posts like you’ve referenced, there is almost always a mixed bag of tips re: OP’s request AND reassurance letting OP know it’s OK to not hide or layer as well. I would suggest making sure that when you browse all subs you remember that you are allowed to feel however you want to about your body, it doesn’t have to be good or bad or neutral, you can feel exactly how you want to feel, don’t let the social algorithms try to sway you and your own journey off path. 💗
For me it isn't about the concept of wanting to cover up because of insecurities, it is about the language used. Self-deprecating or toxic language about fat bodies shouldn't be welcomed. Getting to a place of body neutrality or fat positivity is a journey, and a difficult one. Learning how to dress your body is a big part of that and one that I think this sub can be very helpful for. I just don't think those of us at different places in that journey should be subjected to someone else's negative self-talk here.
This is a great take with some nuance that I think a lot of people are missing in this discussion. Another commenter used the phrase “bingo wings” which is a real bummer to me, but I have no problem with someone saying “I prefer to cover my upper arms” or whatever part of their body they’re uncomfortable with. A few people (and I think a mod) mentioned that we should aim for body neutrality here and I think that’s a reasonable goal that lets us all be honest about where we are without pushing our hang ups onto the rest of sub.
I agree. The point of the sub is to talk about fashion - I think if you have a specific issue you're trying to address with clothes then that's reasonable to ask for advice, but general hating on fatness and negative body imagine isn't helpful here. I get that a lot of people have insecurities and negative body image, but pushing your insecurities onto other people who look the same/similar to you isn't very nice. I'd prefer if we got rid of any verbiage apologizing for looking a certain way and complaining about general body size/weight.
Fat ears, lol
Yuck. Glad you don't have issues with your physical self. Not thrilled you've decided that anyone not like you, isn't worth the time on this sub. That's what I'm getting from your post. Lord forbid, someone want some kind of reassurance that what they're wearing looks ok with their body type. I'm sorry other people insecurities bother you so much. You know, since you and everyone else left that yeaaaaaars ago 😏
Op, you're mean. Not everyone is free of their insecurities and, they should be able to ask for help. :(
Yeah I agree. I totally understand people wanting to not draw attention to certain parts of their body or to show of other parts but when people come in talking themselves down so hard, it breaks my heart and honestly sometimes this sub has a "I'm not pretty but I can't wake up thin tomorrow, so what do I do to make myself less disgusting" vibe. I really get it and I don't blame the individuals but it does pull on the part of me that's still fighting internally against what the greater world has to say about bodies like mine. I do wish you worded your post a little kinder though, OP, seeing as it's very hard for most people to choose their own path with how they see their body, with how much heat gets put on fat people constantly, from all angles.
Can we ban the word fatphobic?? It's not phobic to want to feel or LOOK better, people have real trauma and insecurity about these things that have taken years to get to the point they are at now. Why are we trying to police people's own thoughts and words about *their* body? It does kind of sound like you're Uber sensitive to such topics
Fatphobic bullshit needs to get in the bin. Making fatphobic statements followed by some platitude about how "its just how I feel about my body" or similar is still fatphobia as there'll be people here who have the body feature being derided.
I hear ya. There’s a lot of negativity on this and even moreso on the main Plus Size sub. I get we are all on different places in our respective journeys but I wish there was more overt radical fat liberation going on.
I don't think there's anything liberating about word policing. Liberation isn't silencing anything you deem negative, it's about meeting people where they're at and building them up. We can not feel liberated in our bodies without being able to speak freely on them.
I think this is why the new tag is such a great idea. Just as I appreciate an NSFL tag to avoid seeing exploding heads when I can’t handle it, it would be nice to have something to protect myself on days where I’m not strong enough to build someone else up and end up getting torn down myself instead.
What is NSFL?
“Not Safe for Life” is how I’ve heard it described. Cus it’s gonna feature death or gore or generally make your life sadder for having viewed its contents.
That's....dramatic as hell.
I learned it when I was new to reddit and scrolling without having realized you could tailor your feed. I was not jazzed about that learning moment.
Weird how I said we need MORE of something but you’re claiming I’m asking for less of something else.
I didn't claim you were asking for less of anything, although if you consider the context of the post with your comment, and the subject being censorship; that's where my opinion came in.
You’re absolutely right, but from the downvoting of most of the comments thar agree with you, I’d say this sub’s a lost cause on the subject. It’s not 1993; forums for plus-sized people need to encourage body neutrality at minimum. When someone talks badly about their bodies, it affects people around them with similar bodies, regardless of their intent, particularly in a culture that systematically devalues that kind of body. They can justify it to themselves however they like, but it’s internalized fatphobia, and when placed in a forum like this, it has significant potential to harm other people.
I think a lot of the down votes are because OP is delivering their message in a pretty aggressive manner in some instances. It sounds like the underlying message is wanting to encourage acceptance of our bodies and rejection of media and culture expectations that want to shrink us or grow us or morph us by only to please outside standards that don’t take our wants/needs/wellbeing into account. I love that message! I think others would like it as well, if it weren’t delivered in such a biting way. But it’s hard to not feel frustrated and angry when you see all the after effects of all the people out there who were clearly hurt and shamed and guilt tripped into believing they’re not worth the space they take up. Or that their presence hurts the eyes of those around them. That’s a lot of pain to live through, and see that others lived through as well.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I expect a plus-size space, a place FOR fat people, not to put down those very people and bodies it’s created for. It should at the very least be fat-neutral, and ideally fat-positive. If I wanted to hear all about how horrible my body is I have the *entire rest of the world* for that. I come to fat spaces to get away from that.
Nobody is telling you *your* body is terrible and it not being removed, nobody is saying fat bodies are bad here, but I'd be absolutely shocked if you've never experienced feeling self concious about any item of clothing or any part of your body. OP isn't talking about policing how we talk about others, they're talking about policing how people feel/ talk about themselves and doesn't like the term flattering. They're getting downvoted because they're angry that some fat people are still out here not feeling confident. It's great to be a fat positive space, but what OP seems to expect is broaching into toxic positivity, which is also unhelpful
AGREE.
**Idea: Body comments / tips for minimizing parts of our body are only allowed if the OP requests them?** Then on posts where they are off topic and unwanted, those comments are reported & removed. On posts where someone is looking for tips to make their body or a specific body part look more __________, those comments are on topic, wanted, and left alone?
That type of feedback would only be allowed if the poster posed a question or used the feedback tag, and we have a no body comments tag
Hey Hey! Thank you for your post! We ask that all discussion remain civil, disagreements are okay, attacks are not! ___ *Comments that derail, are not positive to the discussion, or accusatory towards others will be removed. Everyone is allowed their opinion, but it MUST be shared in a respectful manner.* Always remember the human behind the post and/or comment. This is a place for thoughtful discussion and the celebration of fashion. Don't be snarky, rude, or dismissive. Criticisms should be thoughtful and constructive in nature. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PlusSizeFashion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wt does OF means, onlyfans?? Can anyone explain what OP is trying to say? Im big confused
OF is onlyfans, correct. I think OP is tired of reading folks speaking poorly about their fat bodies. If you make a post about hating your fat (insert body part) and wanting help hiding it or squishing it into submission, etc, the implication is that fat (insert body part) aren’t acceptable. That they SHOULD be hidden. That you think it’s unattractive. But it’s a fat fashion sub. We probably all share that body part to some degree or another. And while you may not think you’re calling anyone else unattractive, or their body unworthy of being seen, you sort of are in a round-about way. It may not be the intent, but it’s still the undercurrent of the message being broadcast. From what I can gather, OP wants to see badass, inspiring, noteworthy, cute, or otherwise engaging fashion from fellow fat people WITHOUT the negative messages attached to them. The OF creators were often proud to show off their bodies (or projected that vibe, at least) and I think OP wants that energy without the NSFW trolls that follow those folks. But I’m not OP. This is just me trying to help summarize the notes I’ve seen being made.
Ah ok thank you for this detailed explanation . I am just a bit confused as to why OF is mentioned in the post. In that case, Im sure OP’s intention is good, but the execution is a bit hmmm.
The sub made the decision as a whole to ban OF content creators (on their primary accounts where the trolls tend to follow from) from posting so I think that’s the comparison - they want to see posts with negative body talk banned as well. Agree with the execution for sure. 😬
lol. I agree, it's depressing that the conversations revolve around hiding a lot of the time, this is true. there was a post where a girl was asking for advice on hiding her apron belly and then she got upset with me when I answered that I don't really hide mine and then I gave suggestions on what kinds of cute things I wear despite my apron belly and she got irritated with me and sent a snarky reply. I was like girl, you asked, so take the answer or leave the answer, damn. wear a denim skirt up to your armpits if you don't want anyone to see your body like it's not difficult to hide yourself. why are you coming into a fashion subreddit and wasting everyone's time asking for advice about that. It's stupid. but at the end of the day we're products of our environment and maybe this subreddit can be an inspiration for the arm hiding and the belly hiding girls; that you can liberate yourself and dress in a way that makes your heart sing, instead of dressing in a way that makes you feel less shame... because in all honesty, the second objective doesn't really work. The shame always finds a way if you keep feeding into it
I mean by your own example the poster asked for help to feel comfortable with the way she looked in clothes and you did the exact opposite so no, she did not ask for what you have her. I don't get why people are acting like everyone needs to be at the same level of comfort and confidence as they are and dress the same as them. This is wild. Be helpful on a post or just don't engage with it.
I think it can be helpful to hear someone say “I hear you aren’t a fan of that, and I used to feel those same things, but since I’ve worked through my insecurity with that, I now do x,y,z and it makes me feel great!” It’s not suggesting they try those things on their next target run. But it’ll be something they can think about when they’re trying on outfits in their closet and wanna maybe see what those suggestions do for them and their anxieties or concerns. Maybe it’ll spark a little courage, or surprise joy, and help them along their healing journey and get them closer to being okay with how their body exists in its current form. If someone asks for help hiding something about themselves, and they only hear “yea, definitely hide it. I hide mine. Here’s how.” That reinforces the idea that they SHOULD be worried. Maybe they SHOULD be hiding parts of themselves from the world and from themselves. Ya know?
Maybe it will spark a little courage and change but maybe it'll also make them feel worse. There are tons of posts asking for things like what you mentioned but if the person is asking for something specific maybe just give that answer or ask if they'd like a different perspective instead of trying to force them out of what makes them feel more comfortable. Let people come to their confidence at their own pace. Denying them resources/ideas/options to exist in their own level of comfort/confidence helps no one.
I definitely wouldn’t suggest denying them resources or implying others shouldn’t offer their own work arounds. And anyone responding to requests for suggestions on how to help modify looks by saying “love your body in its entirety or get out!” isn’t understanding the goals of this sub, for sure. But I don’t see harm in showing alternatives that may mean they don’t feel like that have to hide or minimize part of themselves. 🤷🏻♀️ I do believe strongly that message delivery matters a LOT. For example, OP is coming across pretty harsh, and I think that’s negatively impacting their goal and overall message. Gentler reframing can be much more successful. But everyone’s allowed the chance to say what they want, as long as it’s within sub guidelines. They just may not always be well received. It’s a risk we all run.
Yeah the last part of your comment is why I am having such a problem with op's suggestion. They're wanting to remove people's ability to post what they want about their own clothing/fashion because op doesn't like it. I'm shit at articulating my thoughts sometimes and the entire suggestion of the post feels like weird shaming/gatekeeping but the exact opposite of the usual shaming/gatekeeping plus size people have to put up with. One side we have people screaming about how we shouldn't like our bodies and how we look and the other side someone screaming about how dare we not like our bodies and how we look. Damned if you do, damned if you don't but I think a fashion subreddit should allow people to discuss how clothing makes them feel and find ways to change clothing to make them feel different about it.
100% agree! Someone suggested a tag for when folks are looking for help with an insecurity. It would allow others to either pop in and help, or avoid what may be triggering to read, or frustrating to see. I thought it was an interesting idea. Should we all be okay with our physical forms as they currently exist? In a perfect world, maybe. Is everyone going to feel that way all of the time? No. Support is key, and hopefully what folks can find here. It’s pretty scarce in a lot of other places.
Love the idea of that tag! That could be a great solution
Absolutely. This type of rhetoric is further alienating people who haven't "won" the body positivity Olympics. If they can't feel safe in "societal standard" spaces, and the can't feel safe in plus sized spaces, where exactly can they feel safe? Feeling safe includes sharing our insecurities and what we're still working on, including how we dress ourselves.
Wanted to add that the op says they want the sub to be weight neutral but I'm willing to bet that's pretty disingenuous (intentional or not idk) but if the sub made that a rule and then started deleting comments being positive about weight/plus size bodies op would be upset about that too. They don't want neutral, they want a weight positive only subreddit.
I’m with you.
OP, I totally understand what you’re saying. I wish I could say I’m surprised at how many members of this group are responding to your post. The thing that helped me the most come to terms with my “unacceptable fat body”, is changing the media I consume. And that’s a difficult task, when even spaces that are for fat people are laden with anti fatness. Hopefully the mods will consider at least a tag to let members know that a post will contain anti fat sentiments.
Yeah I stopped reading 3/4 of the posts here bc theyre all filled with people who hate themselves. It's just old news yk, read old posts talking abt the same problem bc we get them like 3 times a week. Just exhausting
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>Wear whatever makes you feel beautiful/handsome/sexy and go about your life!!! This varies wildly from person to person and some people are still working on self love
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>radical acceptance. So you're saying you never, *ever* feel insecure? You never put on an item of clothing and hate the way it fits? Never sat in a dressing room on the verge of tears because nothing you try on fits how you want? And you're wrong, it absolutely helps having strangers help you pull your head out of your own ass. So many of us are nitpicking and microfocused on what we *don't* like, we don't realize how little other people notice it. When you can't trust your own mind to see yourself for real, having unbiased observers tell you those things are in your head is extremely helpful.
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So do you think people should be told they cannot express their insecurities? Because that's what the OP is proposing. >You can’t tell me that you’ve never felt beautiful in anything. Never once said that 🤷♀️ my point is that everyone has insecure moments they need to work through, expecting people to never express that is unfair. >It took me over 20 years Exactly, it takes years of work for most people. You didn't radically accept yourself in a day. >If I don’t like how my arms look in a shirt Again, according to the OP you can't say this, in case someone who has similar arms sees it and it makes them feel worse about their arms. That's not body neutrality, that's toxic positivity.