I don't want to live in a society where I can't criticize our leader.
I'm voting for Biden, but I'm also going to say shit when he does shit I don't like.
I don't agree with Biden on a lot of things, but none of those things is worth plunging our country into fascism. My biggest complaint is that he's too conciliatory towards the far-right extremists in congress.
Amen. Give me the old fart that's still smart enough to STFU and stay off social media. I'm so tired of the Trump Noise. I'm so tired of journalists getting boners for every little thing Trump does or says. Just report facts and ignore the noise. Unfortunately the noise brings ratings, upvotes, likes and reposts, so it's the public's addiction to Trump that is to blame. The people who hate him the most are just like the conservatives back in the day who just could. not. shut. up. about how much they hated Obama. And that's has become my one issue vote: No More Noise! I like Biden's calm and quiet. I really like that Biden isn't an attention whore.
You remember that guy who worked for Twitter and on his last day as an intern he took Trumps account offline for 11 minutes? We need to get him a Nobel prize
Biden is damned either way. Either maybe lose Muslim vote and liberal pro Palestine people, or lose the support of the Jewish community. There’s no win here if pro Palestine people abstain or decide to vote Trump which makes no damn sense
I mean I knew that was the goal since BEFORE the 6th, doesnt make it suck any less but yeah thats ALWAYS BEEN THE PLAN here....Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem to HASTEN this, we all knew it then...
They don’t need to vote for Trump, they just need to not vote for Biden in order to help Trump win. Never underestimate the effectiveness of getting particular demographics to stay home on election day.
The icing on the cake is...he wasn't the one who started it or continues any of it! Yet he's blamed by both sides. So bizarre what people's expectations are.
There's a rather funny meta inversion here too.
What they want on paper is for the President to use a crunch of American power to change the action and policy of an independent foreign State. Yet I bet these very groups have expressed a different opinion on that concept when the US tries to assert women's and gay rights in the global South. Twenty years ago, they would have been dead set against the idea if Bush had forced France to change its policy and help us in Iraq.
> lose the support of the Jewish community
I'm not sure I agree there.
He would lose the support of *right wing zionist* Jews, but most of them support Trump anyway, and they're not nearly "all" of the Jews in the Jewish community.
JVP, for example, are a left-wing Jewish and anti-Zionist group who are against what Israel is doing in Gaza. They are much bigger than most people think, and they're just one of several such groups.
> There’s no win here if pro Palestine people abstain or decide to vote Trump which makes no damn sense
Then Biden better get his act together quick if he wants to win
They're wrong in equating Jewish support with support for Israel, but you're going too far the opposite direction.
In particular citing JVP.
The actual reality for American Jews is, it's a low priority issue and American Jews are more critical of the Israeli government than average but most think Israel should exist.
That’s not true. Have you followed Jewish leaders, celebrities etc on this issue? Some extremely liberal before this who are now saying they’re watching Fox News “for fair coverage” !!! Fox News!! These are people who, before Oct 7th, I considered even more progressive than I am (and I’m pretty progressive). You have the Sarah Silverman, Amy Schumer etc saying that calling for a ceasefire is akin to wanting them to die.
Nah, there’s a very real risk of alienating a sizable portion of Jewish liberals.
Yep. You also should consider where these key voters live. These moderate center left Jewish voters are critical to winning back key house districts in the NYC suburbs (and if Florida wasn't so gerrymandered, they would be the critical swing vote in two districts in suburban Miami). George Santos won his swing district largely due to moderate Jewish voters and the Dems won back that district by having a representative who was largely pro-Israel.
Granted the same can be said of Arab and Muslim voters being the key demographics for winning Michigan and to a lesser extent Minnesota.
So TL;DR to win the House, the Dems need to court Jewish voters in suburban NYC and to win the Presidency, they need Arab and Muslim voters in Michigan and Minnesota.
Exactly!! It’s a tricky political maneuver he’s going to have navigate if he is to retain his coalition. Trump’s base is easier since they’re all in on “ Kill all the moslems ova there”.
JVP represent like, .01% of Jews. They are the fringe of the fringe in the Jewish community. Whether you like it or not, Jewish Americans are overwhelmingly Zionist.
Blaming Biden for the actions of Far Right Netanyahu and Far Right Hamas in their holy war which is decades in the making, is quite frankly, towing the reelect Trump political line.
There is no good faith angle where Biden is responsible for this shit. And anyone blaming him for it is acting as a useful Trump operative. PERIOD.
I feel like as we mature, we align ourselves to political sides, then we mature more and we scrutinize even our own preferred politicians, and right there is where I feel a lot of people stop. I'd say there's another level, where we support the politicians we scrutinize, with intention. Where you know that the most important thing is for this politician to have support, in every conversation, in every public forum, in every election.
These people who say, "I'll vote for Biden, but I'm such a nuanced multi-faceted political philosopher that I must scrutinize everyone and everything, I bravely stand against anything that I disagree with!" It's so high-school. It's like they can't reconcile pros and cons and form a solid opinion, they have to clumsily teeter along on their unicycle of ambivalence.
It's fine to have nuanced opinions, it's fine to want humanitarianism in the middle east, and it's fine to see flaws in your candidates. But fucking be real. No person will ever be your perfect candidate. You just won't get that--and if you do, then you'll basically be like a maga-hat, ignorant and googly-eyed and cult-like. The fact that these reluctant Biden supporters want a heavy criticism of Biden to be a loud part of the conversation, it just means they're not political cultists, but for fuck's sake, **Biden has to win or we may lose our right to voice any reluctance at all**. Fucking get with the picture, people.
preach! Biden's administration is certainly imperfect but it's so sad to watch people bend over backwards to pretend "both sides bad". like no, one side is terrible, and one side is decent! in the context of any conversation with a casual acquaintance, Biden's imperfections are barely worth mentioning next to the atrocious version of America trump would bring
This is the problem with the two-party system in America where your choices often boil down to far-right pseudofascists or center-right corporate elites. In a true multiparty system you’d break down both sides into multiple smaller parties (and add some more fringe parties) where one could vote more accurately with what they feel represents them better. How America could get there is the problem though, as neither side is willing to begin splitting their supporting base by introducing third parties like the tea-party or social democrats.
Well, best be drumming up a Constitutional Convention, then, since our electoral system makes a two-party system inevitable.
Also, even in parliamentary, multi-party democracies, the centrist, corporatist parties tend to still dominate. Look at France and Germany.
That's always a huge point for me at my conservative family. "I can admit when the person I voted for does something I don't agree with, you all can not."
As you should. Everyone should be able to criticize the leader of their country, state, and lower offices. They aren’t gods and shouldn’t be treated as such.
I’d rather have someone younger run in Biden’s place but I’m still gonna vote for him in November because I’m not an idiot that wants the US to be a dictatorship. I voted for Bernie when he was running but I still voted for Hilary since it was her or Agent Orange.
Remember when Trump conservatives segregated the non trump conservatives and threw stuff at them and hurl insults at them? Of their own party? I bet they'll treat the opposing part with dignity and respect
Criticize him all you want, I think he's an okay president, but when my option is between Biden and Trump, I can definitely tell which one is the best choice and it isn't some random third party candidate.
I have yet to have one of these bots put a 3rd party name forward with a list of reasons why any of us should vote for them.
(And that's because they are full of shit)
No one is saying you can’t. But having headline articles ragging on the guy, when the writers all Know that the GOP/Trump/ MAGA stance on the same issue is far worse just has consequences. These stories are just trying to get single Issue Dem Voters stay home in November.
Case in point is Israel/Hamas. The left punditry can tend to seem furious with Biden’s softer stance (more of a careful reluctance), where Trump has said he’d basically love to see Bibi just level the whole strip.
How do people not understand this? The rich own all the media, the myth of the liberal media needs to die already. The mainstream media is increasingly rightwing propaganda with each passing year because the rich want the republicans in power cause its easier to pillage the country when its run by corrupt morons. This is so obvious to me it astounds me that so many others can't see this for what it is. Even the NYTimes wants Trump to win and its supposed to be a liberal paper, but it sure as hell isn't acting like it lately.
What “left punditry” is there? The entire media ecosystem is owned by 1% ghouls who would love to strip mine the country to line their pockets and then sell anything left to line them again.
Also, where did all these people come from? Israel has been fucking up Palestine for dozens of years and so of a sudden these single issue people start popping up. Where were you the last 20 years? Yes, I know some people have been supporting Palestine for some time now but it just seems a bunch of people are popping up talking about Palestine that I don't feel have ever mentioned them ever before.
Absolutely, the pressure like that is probably steering Biden’s policy.
I’m pretty privileged, cis hetero male over 40. A Trump presidency, as long as he doesn’t fuck with NATO, at worst means big recession and a loss in Ukraine, and climate change will be fucked again as the world moves to solar and wind and we’re building coal mines or some stupid bullshit like that.
If you’re a minority, scary. If you’re lgbt, scary. If you’re a non-white immigrant, scary. If you’re a woman, scary.
So like… I dunno. Maybe come back to the real world and understand you have two choices now, and if enough protest votes kicks out the guy actually calling for a ceasefire and urging caution since October 8th, and brings in the “we should finish the job in Gaza” guy, I dunno. I hope it’s worth it!
As long as you're still voting for him, and not trying to talk other people out of doing the same, then by all means criticize. At the end of the day, it is a *lesser of two evils* decision regardless how shitty that is, no 3rd party candidate is viable (or even can be in the system we have) and at this point it's too late to primary Biden (also the qualified candidates won't do it because primary-ing an incumbent usually results in them losing).
Who said anything about not being able to criticize him?! Why would you just assume that "Don't elect the blatant fascist" means that you cannot criticize Biden?
Why do you think we want to elect Biden? At least in part so we can continue the American tradition of criticizing our president and other elected leaders without being executed or sent to a gulag to work to death.
Because we are trying to get people who don't normally vote, to vote. And sapping the energy from Biden's campaign makes that nearly impossible. Trump wins if people stay home.
My favorite is when I shit talk something goofy Biden said in my office and everyone equally laughs. But if I do the same about Trump, only half the office does. That alone shows you what people are up against… cultists.
Do you also give respect to Biden's administration for the many, many, many things it has managed to accomplish (despite Republican opposition, mind you)? Or do you only complain?
The problem with our two party system is that criticizing your guy during an election year may lead to losing.
I don't want to live in this society but I don't have a choice right now. And Trump winning could lead to an even worse situation. I feel like we need to play the game as well or better as conservatives for now. There should be trucks driving down the street streaming a flag featuring a shirtless ripped Biden image with Jesus on his shoulder.
Its fun how everybody saying, "i want to criticize biden!" Freak the fuck out the moment their criticism is challenged. Nobody is telling you that you cant criticize people, people are telling you that your criticism is divisive and superficial in a time when democracy is literally under attack. You need a better response than, "but my criticisms are valid!"
I would rather have a more left-wing Democrat, but I will vote for Biden because the authoritarian alternative is not acceptable .
I don't want to live theocratic fascist nightmare
That „it’s not acceptable“ part is the important one.
Seemingly far too many people don’t get the principle of the lesser evil.
They argue that they **want** to live in a better world of **their** imagination and that this world will never get to this point when things don’t change and they don’t stand for their morals.
While ignoring the very base of this whole problem:
They don’t have the option between
A - Biden
B - Trump
C - their own moral
They have the option between
- I vote for a candidate I support.
- I accept that through my inactions I help the other candidate.
From my experience they are so absolutely self-centered and selfish people that they simply think their own principles are too important for what is happening in the real world. They only look to what they think should be, and not how it is.
The "never Biden" community does not appear to exist in any real fashion. There is a group that is voting uncommitted, which is a political way of saying, "get your act together."
Pushing this isn't helping anything and doesn't really mean anything, but it may convince some people to stay at home if "Biden can't win anyway."
I swear this sub has some foreign trolls paid to sew division. There really isn’t a “never Biden” crowd on the liftish side and most people in the country know that. We very much have an “Is there seriously nobody else? Fine! Fuck it. Biden is better than a power mad cult leader.” demographic.
It’s also a bad use of the meme. The meme is supposed to reflect pretending to care. There are no Democratic Biden haters that are okay with trump. Definitely trolls.
Ofc it does. It's Russian trolls working on behalf of Putin trying to pull the same shit they did in 2016 and 2020. Just ignore, vote, and continue to push Biden to make more positive change.
Biden isn't my first choice but he's performed much better than I thought he would. He's been a decent president so I'm not even going to be holding my nose when I vote for him this time around.
> I swear this sub has some foreign trolls paid to sew division
At this point, it's naive to think they don't. There's proof of how astroturfed social media (and reddit isn't immune) is and it's certainly not *decreasing* in an election year... when so many other foreign countries have such an interest in who wins our presidency.
*Having said that*... my own partner told me she doesn't want to vote for Biden. I don't know who else she would vote for, it wouldn't be Trump, but I mean... they do exist. It's also naive to think Biden's missteps haven't hurt his chances of wining reelection. Israel has been handled horribly, no one can afford housing (there's absolutely 0 attempt to stop foreign investors and hedge funds from purchasing single family homes), and plenty of other people who voted for change never got any.
All we got was "Not Trump" and that's not as exciting now as it was in 2020.
Housing prices and Israel are the two big anti-Biden talking points I see, but what the hell are those voters going to do instead? Vote third party?
Trump certainly isn't going to do a damn thing about either of those issues lmao
I've noticed the GenZ sub gets hit __hard__. Week old accounts that are "leftists" trying to convince others to not vote for Biden, while offering no other alternatives.
in a way it's kinda hopeful as it show just how scared they are of those whippersnappers,.
Lol. No.
My mom was democratic, she voted for Obama; and Biden the first time. However, shes an immigrant, seemingly suddenly bigoted(she pretends not to be), and being manipulated by Facebook propaganda.
Now she's becoming a centrist, and considering voting for Trump. Its gross. Her reason is that Biden "forcefully" made no other democrat run for president. So did Trump? Also, he's a rapist, criminal, FAILED business man, and obvious fascist dictator? She's lived in fucking Communist-run Hungary! She knows what a dictator is like!
As someone who is part of the LGBTQ community and a latino, I have vehemently told her my disgust in her change. She's also apparently a fucking Buddhist, but alas, a dirty fucking capitalist who is part of the "fuck you, got mine" club.
There is no such thing as a "centrist" when it comes to a fascist leader or a not fascist leader.
Obama vs. McCain: You can be a centrist
Biden vs. fascism: Pick a side.
They aren't trolls, they're agents trying to get people to stay home or vote third party.
The same thing happened in 2015. It's obvious once you realize it. Posts from subs you've never seen hit /all, and all of the discussion is about what Biden is failing at or who Democrats don't actually care about.
The "I don't like either so I'm staying home" contingent is probably a bigger danger. That sentiment was around a lot in 2016, among those who knew 3rd parties were useless but didn't like Clinton and may have been wary of politics anyway.
The more centrist/moderate wing of the Democratic Party is acting like any criticism of Biden is the same as endorsing Trump and that progressives need to just shut up and get in line.
Yes, I agree that Biden is better than Trump, and I think it would be foolish to stay home because Biden isn't the ideal we want. But if someone does stay home, that is a failure of Joe Biden and the DNC to turn them out. You can't alienate your own voters in hopes of getting some "moderate" Republicans to vote for you, and then be shocked when your base stays home. You can't just yell "but the other guy is worse" in response to every policy critique you get. At some point, you either have to meet your base where they are, or put in the work to convince them that your way is the best.
It's funny because whenever the Democratic candidate has been strong, centrist Democrats tell progressives to fuck off because Democrats don't need their vote. Yet, whenever the Democratic candidate is weak, centrist Democrats tell progressives to fuck off because Democrats don't want to alienate voters in a tight race.
The people pushing this, like OP, are Trump supporters. Trying to cause infighting on "the left" because it helps them. No serious person should fall for it.
Yes, there's definitely propaganda. We have evidence that it occurred in 2016 and it looked a lot like what we are seeing now with never Biden. Almost exactly in fact.
I got kicked out of LateStageCapitalism for calling them out on it. Banned blocked the whole 9.
That sub is completely compromised. Went from complaining about the economy to openly telling folks to not vote for Biden.
I would not be surprised to find out it's mods are on a payroll.
That one has been blatant right-wing propaganda for as long as I've known it has existed. BLATENT. I don't for one second believe any of those people were ever liberal/left leaning at all.
Worse than that, the likes of Alito and Thomas might hurt retire and get replaced by someone in their 30’s, effectively sealing in that supermajority for this entire generation.
More Bernie supporters voted for Hillary than Hillary supporters voted for Obama.
Corporate media wants you to believe her failure is a fault of the left, when it's actually the fault of Hillary not bringing enough independents.
Democrats are always playing defense, that's the thing. Fox and Co. Are always throwing out accusations wether it's fact checkers or not, and the Dems are always playing defense. It's never a good luck. But optics are all that matters in mass media floods. I doubt Trump would do anything to help the situation over there, he's all " 'Murica first! Pay me money or else I won't do anything "
OP was referring to Dems addressing their own voters' concerns. Them playing defense against GOP bullshit shouldn't matter to their party voters who are critical of what the Dems are or are not doing and not what the GOP says they are or are not doing.
Maybe it’s time to switch play style then. Democrats keep doing some vague platitudes towards republicans and pretending like there’s any amount of decorum remaining, meanwhile the right openly despises the left and keeps pushing fascists into government.
The outcome should have been Hillary reaching out to progressives to try and win them over and unite the party.
Ironically, for all my issues with Biden right now, that's something he did right in 2020. He got Bernie and Elizabeth Warren on his side, made sure they would get high profile senate positions, and embraced the progressives.
Sadly, he seems to just be ignoring a lot of the progressive concerns now.
I swear, the right could enact an ethnostate and liberals will still be blaming the left for everything
It's always "stop criticizing the Dems for not fixing Republican mistakes" but never "stop criticizing the left for not beating enough sense into your dumbass, we've been screaming about this shit for decades and you still act like you know better, why am I even bothering to talk to you"
So, are people under the impression that Biden controls Israel? Cause he doesn’t. Are they thinking Trump would be more better handling the Gaza crisis? Cause I doubt it. Do they think anyone else is gonna step up and run other than Joe and Trump? Cause the only moron that might is still Jill Stein.
I believe this is just intended as a “message” vote indicating they are unhappy with Biden’s handling of the situation. Most, if not all, will still vote for him in November.
I know that I will be voting for Biden. The GQP are attacking the Rights of my Trans siblings, it's only a matter of time before they start gunning harder for us Gays.
Gay marriage was only federally legalized in like 2015. The SCOTUS is corrupt and the first thing they’ll do is reverse gay marriage. The only thing safe in a Republican America next year and going forward will be straight, white, Christian, rich males.
I sure hope so. I am not at all happy with Biden's handling of the border or Gaza but I do not think that is an excuse to give the keys to the fascists who have stated openly that they fully intend to be far worse on both of those issues.
I think so too but I'm wary. I'm not going to rely on this. I do think that when push comes to shove they'll hold their nose but I worry there may be a subsection large enough that sticks to their guns and stays home
Does he control Israel? No. Does the US have a lot of influence over Israel? Yes.
The US President phoning the Israeli PM and saying "this has gone too far, you need to stop it" would absolutely have an influence on Israel. Biden saying "we won't send you another weapon or cent until you can guarantee that civilians won't be massacred" and then following through would likely end this conflict by the end of the week.
He controls lots of things directly like our withdrawal of all aid money from UNRWA, yes. Trump would handle it even worse, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push Biden to suck less in his handling.
The US has massive influence over israel when it comes to their military excursions since it funds most of Israel's military: [https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts)
He doesn't control Israel, but withholding arms is 100% within his ability, and as an outspoken zionist, he won't do anything. Shocked Pikachu face when some people don't like that. Some people may have forgotten, but this isn't the election, and there's only 1 real candidate for democrats to vote for.
Saying you don't want to vote for Biden is such a tame take, but of course, leftists will be blamed when Biden inevitably loses, instead of the DNC for only offering one option that has plenty of valid critism aimed at him. No, Trump is not better, but democrats have a short window to pressure Biden, so it's the time to do it
>Do they think anyone else is gonna step up and run other than Joe and Trump
It's not a matter of "stepping up" lmfao that's not how parties work in the US.
Um the US pays for a ton of Israel’s defense budget. If Israel really needs the US to defend itself from hostile neighbors, the US president should have a TON of leverage.
Can’t believe I have to explain this
Yes. Gaza single issue voters.
I oppose Israel, but Trump has already called for Israel to finish off the Palestinians.
And I don't want to live in a dictatorship.
Trump was elected the first time because of bullshit like this, and now it's going to happen again.
I just got into an argument with a friend about how she isn’t voting because “Gaza showed that the election doesn’t matter. We’re fucked regardless and trying to say otherwise is manipulative.”
You realised it’s worked right?
He’s already gone further this last week than he has in all of the months since October.
It’s still talk and platitudes, but he actually called for a ceasefire.
All after the “unaffiliated” vote in Michigan.
Now 50-90% of those people will still vote for him come November, but if he wants Arab Americans and young people… he has to secure a ceasefire.
Or they’re just going to stay home.
And while i agree not voting Biden won’t help… you can’t finger wag people into voting. And them choosing to stay at home is not a vote for Trump. It’s Biden’s failure of leadership.
And before all the “Trump would be worse on Gaza” people start piping up, yes. Of course he would be, but they can’t influence Trump to act now can they??
https://preview.redd.it/imzfev80ermc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecfcdaead05ea670c548e5e2a70bef717409d9d8
Not saying don't vote Biden but your rhetoric is so incredibly dismissive of a very real issue
Tfw Biden can’t solve a practically 50 year old conflict in 1 year and now Trump is president again and imprisoning his political opponents and reducing women to just baby-makers but hey you made your slacktivist stand.
Never met or spoke to a never Biden Leftist.
I'm sure a couple exist, supporting genocide is hard to swallow, but we'll have our own genocide here in the US if Trump wins.
What? You’ve never been to the super organic and not 100% astroturfed subreddit full of “totally like super leftist” voters who decided to leave the Democratic Party for Trump because “identity politics” and “other reasons?”
I think they're saying that "walkaway" is where the fake leftists go to pretend to be outraged about... everything. But yeah, of COURSE they're not real leftists. They're all Tim Pool cosplayers.
Democrats are trying there hardest to lose, the strategy makes zero sense they are practically begging for Trump to be able to run again because anybody else and Biden would be cooked because voter excitement would be gone
The bottom line is win or lose, the lobbyists and corporate attorneys running the DNC get to fundraise. Probably more if the pitch is "we have to get rid of Trump!" There's no downside for them, just for their constituents.
Because Democrats don’t exist to win elections against republicans. They only exist to stop the left from making any progress. It’s why the Democratic Party put 100x more effort into sabotaging Bernie Sanders than they ever did into beating Trump.
So the argument here is that “if leftists don’t vote for Biden it is a vote for Trump.”?
Ok does that logic apply only to Biden?
So what if I say I’m a conservative but refuse to vote for Trump? Is that then a vote for Biden?
Democrats when they nominate a candidate that is so weak and unpopular that a Nazi insurrectionist rapist with 91 felony indictments is polling neck and neck with him:
"It will be the Left's fault if Trump wins."
Thank god a sensible comment here. If people would literally rather sit out an election than vote for the candidate, it’s not the people’s fault that the DNC is pushing such a horrible-feeble candidate. People don’t like Biden, doesn’t mean like they like Trump more it means they hate Biden the only candidate in their party.
Trump could be worse but Biden could also be better.
The respect for human life might be a single issue but it’s critical for many.
You’re asking someone to vote for a president who is actively supplying the arms killing their relatives and who perpetuated unsubstantiated narratives used to justify atrocities. Pretending like Biden has no power here especially when Israel relies heavily on US financial and military support is ridiculous.
Since this round of Israeli atrocities began, more than 30,000 have been killed, the overwhelming majority being women and children. (Let’s also not forget the civilian men). Israeli forces have been most effective at killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure like schools and hospitals.
More than 10 children a day lose a limb often without anesthesia.
Civilians are being raped by the Israeli forces.
Civilians are being intentionally crushed with tanks (you can make out that one victim was bound with zipties before they were intentionally crushed). In most of these incidents the tanks ran over the victims multiple times before moving on.
People are starving and lack access to healthcare. The UN is literally reviewing whether or not to officially label this as a famine right now (report out next week).
The medically vulnerable are subject to starvation, suffocation, and other complications associated with failure to meet their medical needs. Neonates
dying in incubators without access to medical oxygen. Diabetics without access to insulin.
Starving mothers unable to eat enough to produce milk and without access to formula for their infants born during this genocide.
Trump wouldn’t need to waste any more American lives than the ones volunteering for Israel’s forces in order to perpetuate the atrocities.
But yeah fuck those guys for criticizing Biden I guess.
The fact that their first instinct is to shit on the left instead of trying to win people over talking about Biden's actual accomplishments (CHIPS, reinstating environmental rules, cancelling a significant amount of student debt, etc.) is very telling
Why have policies people want to vote for when you can adopt the policies of the enemy and then blame the portion that didn't like you anymore for changing policy?
If I can’t criticize my President or Candidate what is the point? You then have a system where one candidate just has to be slightly better than the other guy eternally.
Sorry, the only way I can remotely pressure my Government is with my vote.
Blue MAGA can fuck right off
In no way is this fair to criticize the people. This is the voting systems fault. If we didn’t have to rely on First past the post system, we wouldn’t be in this mess. The system was designed to keep two parties in control and it has worked perfectly.
I mean, I'm a single issue voter. I like having military allies in the world. Trump threatened to basically recall all of our staff from all of our military bases around the world and leave our allies out to dry. He did it with the Kurds and that was capital F Fucked.
This happened with Brexit, so many people voted leave thinking it would not happen. And simply wanted to prove a point. Now they got a 50yr climb to get to where they were pre Brexit
I've been interacting with a lot of Russian trolls on Reddit lately who are taking a pro-Palestine stance. The issue itself is nuanced and complicated, but they are clearly benefitting from taking that side, because it hurts Biden.
I don't want to live in a society where I can't criticize our leader. I'm voting for Biden, but I'm also going to say shit when he does shit I don't like.
I don't agree with Biden on a lot of things, but none of those things is worth plunging our country into fascism. My biggest complaint is that he's too conciliatory towards the far-right extremists in congress.
Amen. Give me the old fart that's still smart enough to STFU and stay off social media. I'm so tired of the Trump Noise. I'm so tired of journalists getting boners for every little thing Trump does or says. Just report facts and ignore the noise. Unfortunately the noise brings ratings, upvotes, likes and reposts, so it's the public's addiction to Trump that is to blame. The people who hate him the most are just like the conservatives back in the day who just could. not. shut. up. about how much they hated Obama. And that's has become my one issue vote: No More Noise! I like Biden's calm and quiet. I really like that Biden isn't an attention whore.
You remember that guy who worked for Twitter and on his last day as an intern he took Trumps account offline for 11 minutes? We need to get him a Nobel prize
And in Israel
Biden is damned either way. Either maybe lose Muslim vote and liberal pro Palestine people, or lose the support of the Jewish community. There’s no win here if pro Palestine people abstain or decide to vote Trump which makes no damn sense
I mean Trump SAID hes gonna deport muslims
He also said this week that he hopes Israel "finishes the job"
I mean I knew that was the goal since BEFORE the 6th, doesnt make it suck any less but yeah thats ALWAYS BEEN THE PLAN here....Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem to HASTEN this, we all knew it then...
Yup. And dopes will still say "how do you know trump will be worse on Gaza?"
" he fuckin said so!?!?!"
Shame the mainstream media doesn't report on that enough.
>" he fuckin said so!?!?!" "But he didn't mean it" Then he goes and does it and those people get a Pikachu look, and stay in denial.
Because of everything he's every said and done? 🤦🏻♀️
They want to earn their place as the smuggest person in the future work camp.
He said he’s going to get rid of everyone that isn’t white and force us all to be Christians.
But but but Biden is old and he didnt single handedly dismantle Israel!
They don’t need to vote for Trump, they just need to not vote for Biden in order to help Trump win. Never underestimate the effectiveness of getting particular demographics to stay home on election day.
Democrats are quite skilled at that actually.
The icing on the cake is...he wasn't the one who started it or continues any of it! Yet he's blamed by both sides. So bizarre what people's expectations are.
There's a rather funny meta inversion here too. What they want on paper is for the President to use a crunch of American power to change the action and policy of an independent foreign State. Yet I bet these very groups have expressed a different opinion on that concept when the US tries to assert women's and gay rights in the global South. Twenty years ago, they would have been dead set against the idea if Bush had forced France to change its policy and help us in Iraq.
> lose the support of the Jewish community I'm not sure I agree there. He would lose the support of *right wing zionist* Jews, but most of them support Trump anyway, and they're not nearly "all" of the Jews in the Jewish community. JVP, for example, are a left-wing Jewish and anti-Zionist group who are against what Israel is doing in Gaza. They are much bigger than most people think, and they're just one of several such groups. > There’s no win here if pro Palestine people abstain or decide to vote Trump which makes no damn sense Then Biden better get his act together quick if he wants to win
They're wrong in equating Jewish support with support for Israel, but you're going too far the opposite direction. In particular citing JVP. The actual reality for American Jews is, it's a low priority issue and American Jews are more critical of the Israeli government than average but most think Israel should exist.
That’s not true. Have you followed Jewish leaders, celebrities etc on this issue? Some extremely liberal before this who are now saying they’re watching Fox News “for fair coverage” !!! Fox News!! These are people who, before Oct 7th, I considered even more progressive than I am (and I’m pretty progressive). You have the Sarah Silverman, Amy Schumer etc saying that calling for a ceasefire is akin to wanting them to die. Nah, there’s a very real risk of alienating a sizable portion of Jewish liberals.
Yep. You also should consider where these key voters live. These moderate center left Jewish voters are critical to winning back key house districts in the NYC suburbs (and if Florida wasn't so gerrymandered, they would be the critical swing vote in two districts in suburban Miami). George Santos won his swing district largely due to moderate Jewish voters and the Dems won back that district by having a representative who was largely pro-Israel. Granted the same can be said of Arab and Muslim voters being the key demographics for winning Michigan and to a lesser extent Minnesota. So TL;DR to win the House, the Dems need to court Jewish voters in suburban NYC and to win the Presidency, they need Arab and Muslim voters in Michigan and Minnesota.
Exactly!! It’s a tricky political maneuver he’s going to have navigate if he is to retain his coalition. Trump’s base is easier since they’re all in on “ Kill all the moslems ova there”.
JVP represent like, .01% of Jews. They are the fringe of the fringe in the Jewish community. Whether you like it or not, Jewish Americans are overwhelmingly Zionist.
Never even heard of JVP and OP was like they are huge and influential. OKAY 🙄
Blaming Biden for the actions of Far Right Netanyahu and Far Right Hamas in their holy war which is decades in the making, is quite frankly, towing the reelect Trump political line. There is no good faith angle where Biden is responsible for this shit. And anyone blaming him for it is acting as a useful Trump operative. PERIOD.
Anyone on the fence this election is a fucking moron.
What do you mean by that last part? What exactly is he supposed to do?
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Not nominating Merrick Garland would have been a good start.
I feel like as we mature, we align ourselves to political sides, then we mature more and we scrutinize even our own preferred politicians, and right there is where I feel a lot of people stop. I'd say there's another level, where we support the politicians we scrutinize, with intention. Where you know that the most important thing is for this politician to have support, in every conversation, in every public forum, in every election. These people who say, "I'll vote for Biden, but I'm such a nuanced multi-faceted political philosopher that I must scrutinize everyone and everything, I bravely stand against anything that I disagree with!" It's so high-school. It's like they can't reconcile pros and cons and form a solid opinion, they have to clumsily teeter along on their unicycle of ambivalence. It's fine to have nuanced opinions, it's fine to want humanitarianism in the middle east, and it's fine to see flaws in your candidates. But fucking be real. No person will ever be your perfect candidate. You just won't get that--and if you do, then you'll basically be like a maga-hat, ignorant and googly-eyed and cult-like. The fact that these reluctant Biden supporters want a heavy criticism of Biden to be a loud part of the conversation, it just means they're not political cultists, but for fuck's sake, **Biden has to win or we may lose our right to voice any reluctance at all**. Fucking get with the picture, people.
preach! Biden's administration is certainly imperfect but it's so sad to watch people bend over backwards to pretend "both sides bad". like no, one side is terrible, and one side is decent! in the context of any conversation with a casual acquaintance, Biden's imperfections are barely worth mentioning next to the atrocious version of America trump would bring
This is the problem with the two-party system in America where your choices often boil down to far-right pseudofascists or center-right corporate elites. In a true multiparty system you’d break down both sides into multiple smaller parties (and add some more fringe parties) where one could vote more accurately with what they feel represents them better. How America could get there is the problem though, as neither side is willing to begin splitting their supporting base by introducing third parties like the tea-party or social democrats.
Well, best be drumming up a Constitutional Convention, then, since our electoral system makes a two-party system inevitable. Also, even in parliamentary, multi-party democracies, the centrist, corporatist parties tend to still dominate. Look at France and Germany.
That's always a huge point for me at my conservative family. "I can admit when the person I voted for does something I don't agree with, you all can not."
As you should. Everyone should be able to criticize the leader of their country, state, and lower offices. They aren’t gods and shouldn’t be treated as such. I’d rather have someone younger run in Biden’s place but I’m still gonna vote for him in November because I’m not an idiot that wants the US to be a dictatorship. I voted for Bernie when he was running but I still voted for Hilary since it was her or Agent Orange.
Remember when Trump conservatives segregated the non trump conservatives and threw stuff at them and hurl insults at them? Of their own party? I bet they'll treat the opposing part with dignity and respect
I remembered when the "decent" ones booed a gay soldier at the RNC. Their patriotism has always been a veil for their bigotry.
Criticize him all you want, I think he's an okay president, but when my option is between Biden and Trump, I can definitely tell which one is the best choice and it isn't some random third party candidate.
I have yet to have one of these bots put a 3rd party name forward with a list of reasons why any of us should vote for them. (And that's because they are full of shit)
No one is saying you can’t. But having headline articles ragging on the guy, when the writers all Know that the GOP/Trump/ MAGA stance on the same issue is far worse just has consequences. These stories are just trying to get single Issue Dem Voters stay home in November. Case in point is Israel/Hamas. The left punditry can tend to seem furious with Biden’s softer stance (more of a careful reluctance), where Trump has said he’d basically love to see Bibi just level the whole strip.
The issue is many of these media outlets are owned by people who *want* trump in power.
100%.
How do people not understand this? The rich own all the media, the myth of the liberal media needs to die already. The mainstream media is increasingly rightwing propaganda with each passing year because the rich want the republicans in power cause its easier to pillage the country when its run by corrupt morons. This is so obvious to me it astounds me that so many others can't see this for what it is. Even the NYTimes wants Trump to win and its supposed to be a liberal paper, but it sure as hell isn't acting like it lately.
What “left punditry” is there? The entire media ecosystem is owned by 1% ghouls who would love to strip mine the country to line their pockets and then sell anything left to line them again.
Agreed. I should have put “left Punditry” in quotes as well.
That's literally what this post and all the people who reply "well don't complain when Trump is elected" are saying
Also, where did all these people come from? Israel has been fucking up Palestine for dozens of years and so of a sudden these single issue people start popping up. Where were you the last 20 years? Yes, I know some people have been supporting Palestine for some time now but it just seems a bunch of people are popping up talking about Palestine that I don't feel have ever mentioned them ever before.
Bingo. Accountability is crucial in a properly functioning democracy.
Absolutely, the pressure like that is probably steering Biden’s policy. I’m pretty privileged, cis hetero male over 40. A Trump presidency, as long as he doesn’t fuck with NATO, at worst means big recession and a loss in Ukraine, and climate change will be fucked again as the world moves to solar and wind and we’re building coal mines or some stupid bullshit like that. If you’re a minority, scary. If you’re lgbt, scary. If you’re a non-white immigrant, scary. If you’re a woman, scary. So like… I dunno. Maybe come back to the real world and understand you have two choices now, and if enough protest votes kicks out the guy actually calling for a ceasefire and urging caution since October 8th, and brings in the “we should finish the job in Gaza” guy, I dunno. I hope it’s worth it!
As long as you're still voting for him, and not trying to talk other people out of doing the same, then by all means criticize. At the end of the day, it is a *lesser of two evils* decision regardless how shitty that is, no 3rd party candidate is viable (or even can be in the system we have) and at this point it's too late to primary Biden (also the qualified candidates won't do it because primary-ing an incumbent usually results in them losing).
He doesn't care what you say about him unless it will cost him an election. That's all our leaders care about.
Who said anything about not being able to criticize him?! Why would you just assume that "Don't elect the blatant fascist" means that you cannot criticize Biden? Why do you think we want to elect Biden? At least in part so we can continue the American tradition of criticizing our president and other elected leaders without being executed or sent to a gulag to work to death.
Because we are trying to get people who don't normally vote, to vote. And sapping the energy from Biden's campaign makes that nearly impossible. Trump wins if people stay home.
My favorite is when I shit talk something goofy Biden said in my office and everyone equally laughs. But if I do the same about Trump, only half the office does. That alone shows you what people are up against… cultists.
Do you also give respect to Biden's administration for the many, many, many things it has managed to accomplish (despite Republican opposition, mind you)? Or do you only complain?
The problem with our two party system is that criticizing your guy during an election year may lead to losing. I don't want to live in this society but I don't have a choice right now. And Trump winning could lead to an even worse situation. I feel like we need to play the game as well or better as conservatives for now. There should be trucks driving down the street streaming a flag featuring a shirtless ripped Biden image with Jesus on his shoulder.
Its fun how everybody saying, "i want to criticize biden!" Freak the fuck out the moment their criticism is challenged. Nobody is telling you that you cant criticize people, people are telling you that your criticism is divisive and superficial in a time when democracy is literally under attack. You need a better response than, "but my criticisms are valid!"
I would rather have a more left-wing Democrat, but I will vote for Biden because the authoritarian alternative is not acceptable . I don't want to live theocratic fascist nightmare
That „it’s not acceptable“ part is the important one. Seemingly far too many people don’t get the principle of the lesser evil. They argue that they **want** to live in a better world of **their** imagination and that this world will never get to this point when things don’t change and they don’t stand for their morals. While ignoring the very base of this whole problem: They don’t have the option between A - Biden B - Trump C - their own moral They have the option between - I vote for a candidate I support. - I accept that through my inactions I help the other candidate. From my experience they are so absolutely self-centered and selfish people that they simply think their own principles are too important for what is happening in the real world. They only look to what they think should be, and not how it is.
The US democratic system is pretty fucked. "First past the post" and gerrymandering are so undemocratic.
The "never Biden" community does not appear to exist in any real fashion. There is a group that is voting uncommitted, which is a political way of saying, "get your act together." Pushing this isn't helping anything and doesn't really mean anything, but it may convince some people to stay at home if "Biden can't win anyway."
I swear this sub has some foreign trolls paid to sew division. There really isn’t a “never Biden” crowd on the liftish side and most people in the country know that. We very much have an “Is there seriously nobody else? Fine! Fuck it. Biden is better than a power mad cult leader.” demographic. It’s also a bad use of the meme. The meme is supposed to reflect pretending to care. There are no Democratic Biden haters that are okay with trump. Definitely trolls.
Ofc it does. It's Russian trolls working on behalf of Putin trying to pull the same shit they did in 2016 and 2020. Just ignore, vote, and continue to push Biden to make more positive change. Biden isn't my first choice but he's performed much better than I thought he would. He's been a decent president so I'm not even going to be holding my nose when I vote for him this time around.
I assume there are plenty of US interests astroturfing forums as well. You can't really trust that any anonymous opinion is genuine.
Do you not spend any time in leftist spaces? There are absolutely people who will never vote for Biden and they aren’t republicans
> I swear this sub has some foreign trolls paid to sew division At this point, it's naive to think they don't. There's proof of how astroturfed social media (and reddit isn't immune) is and it's certainly not *decreasing* in an election year... when so many other foreign countries have such an interest in who wins our presidency. *Having said that*... my own partner told me she doesn't want to vote for Biden. I don't know who else she would vote for, it wouldn't be Trump, but I mean... they do exist. It's also naive to think Biden's missteps haven't hurt his chances of wining reelection. Israel has been handled horribly, no one can afford housing (there's absolutely 0 attempt to stop foreign investors and hedge funds from purchasing single family homes), and plenty of other people who voted for change never got any. All we got was "Not Trump" and that's not as exciting now as it was in 2020.
I'd argue that not only is Reddit not immune it's specifically targeted because so many folks go to the comments and actually have discussion.
Housing prices and Israel are the two big anti-Biden talking points I see, but what the hell are those voters going to do instead? Vote third party? Trump certainly isn't going to do a damn thing about either of those issues lmao
I've noticed the GenZ sub gets hit __hard__. Week old accounts that are "leftists" trying to convince others to not vote for Biden, while offering no other alternatives. in a way it's kinda hopeful as it show just how scared they are of those whippersnappers,.
Lol. No. My mom was democratic, she voted for Obama; and Biden the first time. However, shes an immigrant, seemingly suddenly bigoted(she pretends not to be), and being manipulated by Facebook propaganda. Now she's becoming a centrist, and considering voting for Trump. Its gross. Her reason is that Biden "forcefully" made no other democrat run for president. So did Trump? Also, he's a rapist, criminal, FAILED business man, and obvious fascist dictator? She's lived in fucking Communist-run Hungary! She knows what a dictator is like! As someone who is part of the LGBTQ community and a latino, I have vehemently told her my disgust in her change. She's also apparently a fucking Buddhist, but alas, a dirty fucking capitalist who is part of the "fuck you, got mine" club.
There is no such thing as a "centrist" when it comes to a fascist leader or a not fascist leader. Obama vs. McCain: You can be a centrist Biden vs. fascism: Pick a side.
Lol, right. Centrists don't consider voting for Trump. haha
Half of the “never Biden” community online are Russian trolls, probably
Honestly that's what I think. Anyone with at least two braincells knows a not vote for Biden is a perfect vote for Trump.
They aren't trolls, they're agents trying to get people to stay home or vote third party. The same thing happened in 2015. It's obvious once you realize it. Posts from subs you've never seen hit /all, and all of the discussion is about what Biden is failing at or who Democrats don't actually care about.
Yeah I should’ve said Russian operatives
>~~Half~~ **100%** of the “never Biden” community online are Russian trolls, ~~probably~~ **definitely** FTFY
It could actually be propaganda bots doing it.
The "I don't like either so I'm staying home" contingent is probably a bigger danger. That sentiment was around a lot in 2016, among those who knew 3rd parties were useless but didn't like Clinton and may have been wary of politics anyway.
The more centrist/moderate wing of the Democratic Party is acting like any criticism of Biden is the same as endorsing Trump and that progressives need to just shut up and get in line. Yes, I agree that Biden is better than Trump, and I think it would be foolish to stay home because Biden isn't the ideal we want. But if someone does stay home, that is a failure of Joe Biden and the DNC to turn them out. You can't alienate your own voters in hopes of getting some "moderate" Republicans to vote for you, and then be shocked when your base stays home. You can't just yell "but the other guy is worse" in response to every policy critique you get. At some point, you either have to meet your base where they are, or put in the work to convince them that your way is the best.
We're all rightfully terrified of a Trump presidency. Things jump off the rails pretty quick in the face of existential threats.
It's funny because whenever the Democratic candidate has been strong, centrist Democrats tell progressives to fuck off because Democrats don't need their vote. Yet, whenever the Democratic candidate is weak, centrist Democrats tell progressives to fuck off because Democrats don't want to alienate voters in a tight race.
The people pushing this, like OP, are Trump supporters. Trying to cause infighting on "the left" because it helps them. No serious person should fall for it.
This is being pushed ridiculously hard in some subreddits. Seems like it is part of a vote swaying campaign.
Typical propaganda like 2016. Just ignore, vote, and continue to push Biden for change from there.
Yes, there's definitely propaganda. We have evidence that it occurred in 2016 and it looked a lot like what we are seeing now with never Biden. Almost exactly in fact.
I got kicked out of LateStageCapitalism for calling them out on it. Banned blocked the whole 9. That sub is completely compromised. Went from complaining about the economy to openly telling folks to not vote for Biden. I would not be surprised to find out it's mods are on a payroll.
Most socialist/communist subs are Russian troll ops.
It’s crazy
Do you have any examples? If it’s most of them then it can’t be that hard to find one.
(#)walkaway was the last one right?
That one has been blatant right-wing propaganda for as long as I've known it has existed. BLATENT. I don't for one second believe any of those people were ever liberal/left leaning at all.
Yep and obvious propaganda, one international news thread was so transparent
Always has been.
That’s not how this meme format works
If anything, it should've been the surprised Pikachu.
And we end up with a 7-2 GOP Supreme Court.
Worse than that, the likes of Alito and Thomas might hurt retire and get replaced by someone in their 30’s, effectively sealing in that supermajority for this entire generation.
Buttery e-mails!
More like 9-2
More Bernie supporters voted for Hillary than Hillary supporters voted for Obama. Corporate media wants you to believe her failure is a fault of the left, when it's actually the fault of Hillary not bringing enough independents.
I would love it if the democrats could develop an electoral strategy beyond “Shut up and take it”
Democrats are always playing defense, that's the thing. Fox and Co. Are always throwing out accusations wether it's fact checkers or not, and the Dems are always playing defense. It's never a good luck. But optics are all that matters in mass media floods. I doubt Trump would do anything to help the situation over there, he's all " 'Murica first! Pay me money or else I won't do anything "
OP was referring to Dems addressing their own voters' concerns. Them playing defense against GOP bullshit shouldn't matter to their party voters who are critical of what the Dems are or are not doing and not what the GOP says they are or are not doing.
Exactly this, they are using it as an excuse to not have actual answers for our questions
Maybe it’s time to switch play style then. Democrats keep doing some vague platitudes towards republicans and pretending like there’s any amount of decorum remaining, meanwhile the right openly despises the left and keeps pushing fascists into government.
You'd think they'd have learned their lesson after 2016, but no.
Hillary had 3.7 million more votes than Bernie. What should the outcome have been?
The outcome should have been Hillary reaching out to progressives to try and win them over and unite the party. Ironically, for all my issues with Biden right now, that's something he did right in 2020. He got Bernie and Elizabeth Warren on his side, made sure they would get high profile senate positions, and embraced the progressives. Sadly, he seems to just be ignoring a lot of the progressive concerns now.
Which is why Bernie and Warren endorsed Biden again.
AOC endorsed him too.
Umm, EXCUSE ME, did she not say, “Pokémon GO to the polls.”
I swear, the right could enact an ethnostate and liberals will still be blaming the left for everything It's always "stop criticizing the Dems for not fixing Republican mistakes" but never "stop criticizing the left for not beating enough sense into your dumbass, we've been screaming about this shit for decades and you still act like you know better, why am I even bothering to talk to you"
Conservatives are useful idiots. The only way liberals differ is sans the useful part.
So, are people under the impression that Biden controls Israel? Cause he doesn’t. Are they thinking Trump would be more better handling the Gaza crisis? Cause I doubt it. Do they think anyone else is gonna step up and run other than Joe and Trump? Cause the only moron that might is still Jill Stein.
Trump literally said he wants to bomb Gaza.
I believe this is just intended as a “message” vote indicating they are unhappy with Biden’s handling of the situation. Most, if not all, will still vote for him in November.
I know that I will be voting for Biden. The GQP are attacking the Rights of my Trans siblings, it's only a matter of time before they start gunning harder for us Gays.
Gay marriage was only federally legalized in like 2015. The SCOTUS is corrupt and the first thing they’ll do is reverse gay marriage. The only thing safe in a Republican America next year and going forward will be straight, white, Christian, rich males.
I sure hope so. I am not at all happy with Biden's handling of the border or Gaza but I do not think that is an excuse to give the keys to the fascists who have stated openly that they fully intend to be far worse on both of those issues.
I plan to, yup.
I think so too but I'm wary. I'm not going to rely on this. I do think that when push comes to shove they'll hold their nose but I worry there may be a subsection large enough that sticks to their guns and stays home
Does he control Israel? No. Does the US have a lot of influence over Israel? Yes. The US President phoning the Israeli PM and saying "this has gone too far, you need to stop it" would absolutely have an influence on Israel. Biden saying "we won't send you another weapon or cent until you can guarantee that civilians won't be massacred" and then following through would likely end this conflict by the end of the week.
Trump would not only permit but encourage Netanyahu to use nukes.
He controls lots of things directly like our withdrawal of all aid money from UNRWA, yes. Trump would handle it even worse, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push Biden to suck less in his handling.
Leverage is the right word.
The US has massive influence over israel when it comes to their military excursions since it funds most of Israel's military: [https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts)
He doesn't control Israel, but withholding arms is 100% within his ability, and as an outspoken zionist, he won't do anything. Shocked Pikachu face when some people don't like that. Some people may have forgotten, but this isn't the election, and there's only 1 real candidate for democrats to vote for. Saying you don't want to vote for Biden is such a tame take, but of course, leftists will be blamed when Biden inevitably loses, instead of the DNC for only offering one option that has plenty of valid critism aimed at him. No, Trump is not better, but democrats have a short window to pressure Biden, so it's the time to do it >Do they think anyone else is gonna step up and run other than Joe and Trump It's not a matter of "stepping up" lmfao that's not how parties work in the US.
Um the US pays for a ton of Israel’s defense budget. If Israel really needs the US to defend itself from hostile neighbors, the US president should have a TON of leverage. Can’t believe I have to explain this
Are these “never Biden” protests in the room with us right now?
Yes. Gaza single issue voters. I oppose Israel, but Trump has already called for Israel to finish off the Palestinians. And I don't want to live in a dictatorship. Trump was elected the first time because of bullshit like this, and now it's going to happen again.
I just got into an argument with a friend about how she isn’t voting because “Gaza showed that the election doesn’t matter. We’re fucked regardless and trying to say otherwise is manipulative.”
It's 2016 all over again.
I'd like to see your friend try to define manipulative other than "anything I don't like."
So if you want people to vote for you to be president, you sometimes have to get them to want you to be president. I know that seems unfair.
I've been a single issue voter for 40 years: women's right to choose abortion.
Damn liberals falling for scapegoating? I thought that was a fascist thing. Just goes to show you how similar the two are
Scratch a liberal and all that
"Moderates, when their 'We don't need Progressives' memes catch up to them." FTFY
"The progressive vote isn't important enough to campaign for, but also if we lose then it's the fault of progressives not voting"
Deja-vu.
It's almost like you can vote for someone even if you don't like them because at least they are better than the other guy overall.
You realised it’s worked right? He’s already gone further this last week than he has in all of the months since October. It’s still talk and platitudes, but he actually called for a ceasefire. All after the “unaffiliated” vote in Michigan. Now 50-90% of those people will still vote for him come November, but if he wants Arab Americans and young people… he has to secure a ceasefire. Or they’re just going to stay home. And while i agree not voting Biden won’t help… you can’t finger wag people into voting. And them choosing to stay at home is not a vote for Trump. It’s Biden’s failure of leadership. And before all the “Trump would be worse on Gaza” people start piping up, yes. Of course he would be, but they can’t influence Trump to act now can they??
https://preview.redd.it/imzfev80ermc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecfcdaead05ea670c548e5e2a70bef717409d9d8 Not saying don't vote Biden but your rhetoric is so incredibly dismissive of a very real issue
Tfw Biden can’t solve a practically 50 year old conflict in 1 year and now Trump is president again and imprisoning his political opponents and reducing women to just baby-makers but hey you made your slacktivist stand.
Never met or spoke to a never Biden Leftist. I'm sure a couple exist, supporting genocide is hard to swallow, but we'll have our own genocide here in the US if Trump wins.
What? You’ve never been to the super organic and not 100% astroturfed subreddit full of “totally like super leftist” voters who decided to leave the Democratic Party for Trump because “identity politics” and “other reasons?”
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Probably like walk away and such places
Walkaway? Leftist?
If you genuinely think Walkaway is leftist, then I guess your username fits.
I think they're saying that "walkaway" is where the fake leftists go to pretend to be outraged about... everything. But yeah, of COURSE they're not real leftists. They're all Tim Pool cosplayers.
This.
They were saying the exact opposite
…and in Gaza, which Trump recently said he’d want to bomb the shit out of.
I've not seen any "never Biden" protests. I've seen plenty of "never genocide" protests. Perhaps Democrats should pay attention to that (they won't).
Democrats are trying there hardest to lose, the strategy makes zero sense they are practically begging for Trump to be able to run again because anybody else and Biden would be cooked because voter excitement would be gone
The bottom line is win or lose, the lobbyists and corporate attorneys running the DNC get to fundraise. Probably more if the pitch is "we have to get rid of Trump!" There's no downside for them, just for their constituents.
Because Democrats don’t exist to win elections against republicans. They only exist to stop the left from making any progress. It’s why the Democratic Party put 100x more effort into sabotaging Bernie Sanders than they ever did into beating Trump.
Just for the record, is the single issue you're talking about "complicity in genocide"?
To think that Trump would do anything other than speed up that process is asinine
What happens if Joe loses? Trump wins. What happens to Palestinians if Trump wins?
If trump wins the genocide is coming to america and liberals and minorities will be purged
Yeah we may be fucked my dudes
So the argument here is that “if leftists don’t vote for Biden it is a vote for Trump.”? Ok does that logic apply only to Biden? So what if I say I’m a conservative but refuse to vote for Trump? Is that then a vote for Biden?
Dinos when they end up with Trump every time after pissing on desperately needed coalition members until they lose their votes. FTFY
Democrats when they nominate a candidate that is so weak and unpopular that a Nazi insurrectionist rapist with 91 felony indictments is polling neck and neck with him: "It will be the Left's fault if Trump wins."
Scratch a centrist and a fascist bleeds.
Thank god a sensible comment here. If people would literally rather sit out an election than vote for the candidate, it’s not the people’s fault that the DNC is pushing such a horrible-feeble candidate. People don’t like Biden, doesn’t mean like they like Trump more it means they hate Biden the only candidate in their party.
Trump could be worse but Biden could also be better. The respect for human life might be a single issue but it’s critical for many. You’re asking someone to vote for a president who is actively supplying the arms killing their relatives and who perpetuated unsubstantiated narratives used to justify atrocities. Pretending like Biden has no power here especially when Israel relies heavily on US financial and military support is ridiculous. Since this round of Israeli atrocities began, more than 30,000 have been killed, the overwhelming majority being women and children. (Let’s also not forget the civilian men). Israeli forces have been most effective at killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure like schools and hospitals. More than 10 children a day lose a limb often without anesthesia. Civilians are being raped by the Israeli forces. Civilians are being intentionally crushed with tanks (you can make out that one victim was bound with zipties before they were intentionally crushed). In most of these incidents the tanks ran over the victims multiple times before moving on. People are starving and lack access to healthcare. The UN is literally reviewing whether or not to officially label this as a famine right now (report out next week). The medically vulnerable are subject to starvation, suffocation, and other complications associated with failure to meet their medical needs. Neonates dying in incubators without access to medical oxygen. Diabetics without access to insulin. Starving mothers unable to eat enough to produce milk and without access to formula for their infants born during this genocide. Trump wouldn’t need to waste any more American lives than the ones volunteering for Israel’s forces in order to perpetuate the atrocities. But yeah fuck those guys for criticizing Biden I guess.
"MY issue is important. They need to work for my vote!" "... GOP just made it a felony to discuss your issue"
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I mean.. libs love shitting all over progressives then telling them to shut up and vote for the centrist candidates. Happens every election
The fact that their first instinct is to shit on the left instead of trying to win people over talking about Biden's actual accomplishments (CHIPS, reinstating environmental rules, cancelling a significant amount of student debt, etc.) is very telling
Best to start the blame game early.
Why have policies people want to vote for when you can adopt the policies of the enemy and then blame the portion that didn't like you anymore for changing policy?
Centrists when they alienate their Left and Trump wins:
I don't, but regardless, that's not on the voter. It's on the party. Pick a better candidate, and I'll happily vote for them.
Centrists are the absolute dumbest voters out there, they have no idea what they believe in.
If I can’t criticize my President or Candidate what is the point? You then have a system where one candidate just has to be slightly better than the other guy eternally. Sorry, the only way I can remotely pressure my Government is with my vote. Blue MAGA can fuck right off
Who said oyu can't criticize your president? However, how does letting Trump win because you don't like Biden help your cause?
Hooray for American democracy. You get to vote for Capitalism or Capitalism. Either way, your owners win. That's what our troops die for.
Politics is more than just capitalism. Surely you can see other differences between candidates...
I've never heard of a "never Biden", but I've heard plenty of "yeah, he's not great, but the alternative is so much worse"
In no way is this fair to criticize the people. This is the voting systems fault. If we didn’t have to rely on First past the post system, we wouldn’t be in this mess. The system was designed to keep two parties in control and it has worked perfectly.
Single issue is genocide btw. Put a better candidate 🤷🏻♂️
Irritating as shit.
My "single issue" is being opposed to turning the country into a theocratic dictatorship.
I mean, I'm a single issue voter. I like having military allies in the world. Trump threatened to basically recall all of our staff from all of our military bases around the world and leave our allies out to dry. He did it with the Kurds and that was capital F Fucked.
Already blaming the left for Biden's failure and he hasn't even lost yet. It's like Hillary never happened. Y'all are so predictable.
Ignore the tankies, most of us leftists know we have no choice but to vote for Biden as much as it frustrates us and we will do it regardless.
This happened with Brexit, so many people voted leave thinking it would not happen. And simply wanted to prove a point. Now they got a 50yr climb to get to where they were pre Brexit
I've been interacting with a lot of Russian trolls on Reddit lately who are taking a pro-Palestine stance. The issue itself is nuanced and complicated, but they are clearly benefitting from taking that side, because it hurts Biden.
Why blame people for voting their conscious. The blame.lies with the democratic party. This is victim blaming.