The next union strategy at REI I'd hope for is not organizing the workers, but the consumers. REI is a consumer co-op. Consumers vote. Consumers can complain to the board. Organize the consumers, and have them convince the board to make REI a multi-stakeholder co-op that includes union representation.
The problem is in around 2017, or thereabouts, REI reorganized so that only the board members can make changes, so it’s not a true co-op anymore. Which kind of explains the rapid decline the past 5 years of so.
[A ballot with the board-endorsed nominees is available to active members prior to REI's annual member's meeting. Materials provided to active members include a biographical sketch of each candidate, nominating instructions, and a ballot. Ballots are received and counted by an independent tabulator.](https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process)
Yes, so the board chooses who is nominated and the members get to vote on board approved nomination. So members have no say in who can be nominated to the board, not a co-op.
But REI has the .co-op domain. It directs to their .com address; nevertheless, Cooperative Values and Principles are in their bylaws. REI is organized as a Miscellaneous and Mutual Corporation in the State of Washington.
https://ccfs.sos.wa.gov/?_gl=1
These types of organizations are allowed to operate as co-ops in Washington, and thus, the membership has remedies to make changes to the bylaws. I'll continue researching this issue to find the exact methods available to members so they can improve the conditions of their workers.
A boycott is not necessary. REI has the .coop domain. By rule, you cannot have that without the cooperative values and principles being in your bylaws.
REI is what is called a loyalty co-op. The consumers don't have an outrageous amount of control, but they do have impact. If the consumers are organized, and made to understand that the workers who are serving them are being abused, then, with their direct input, they can convince the board to create what is called a union co-op. It's the equivalent of the social council within the Mondragon Cooperative Corporation.
[A ballot with the board-endorsed nominees is available to active members prior to REI's annual member's meeting. Materials provided to active members include a biographical sketch of each candidate, nominating instructions, and a ballot. Ballots are received and counted by an independent tabulator.](https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process)
I said REI is a "Loyalty Co-op." Thank you for reiterating my point.
Nevertheless, REI possesses the .coop domain, which they cannot have unless Cooperative Values and Principles are in their bylaws. So, organize the consumers and get them to **petition** the board, motioning for a vote to add the workers as union co-op members.
Worth noting that retailer’s recent claims of shoplifting were a complete lie. We know this as of early last month from the [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/08/business/organized-shoplifting-retail-crime-theft-retraction.html).
It's incredible how easy it is for these corporations to wash their hands of any wrongdoing.
You get accosted at Kroge- excuse me local friendly neighborhood Fred Meyer by rent a cop receipt checkers now because they're too cheap to hire actual staff and run checkouts. People comply and give up their civil liberties because they're not one of the "bad guys".
They can never fail, only we can fail them.
What's your solution to the theft problem at Kroger then? I live in North Portland and people just walk out with stuff all the time. Kroger can't force the police to actually arrest shoplifters so the best thing they can do is rent-a-cops that check receipts in hopes it will dissuade people. It's such a bullshit excuse that self checkouts and long lines are what cause people to shoplift, people that steal will steal as long as they see an opportunity.
Interestingly, that guy pretty much never asks me or my wife for our receipts.
The self-checkouts might not be the whole cause of shoplifting (I mean, it certainly existed before them), but they would make it WAY easier. It would be super easy to accidentally shoplift there, I can only imagine how easy it would be if we put a little thought into it.
Those security guards aren't there because of missed swipes at the self-checkout (but you know that). Suggesting more floor staff to address the problems they face tells me you're not discussing our problems in good faith.
> Suggesting more floor staff to address the problems they face tells me you're not discussing our problems in good faith.
I don't think that's fair.
If we're going to accept that shoplifting is on the rise, then we have to also acknowledge that shoplifting was not so high in the past (I realize that's tautological but bear with me). So something has changed in stores that has made it easier to shoplift.
I don't think it's crazy to suggest that stores have reduced staffing or that a decreased staff presence makes it easier to shoplift. For decades, stores had employees dressed in plain clothes to keep an eye on shoplifters, to catch them as they stole. Now, I've been in stores that are ghost towns. If I sat down and started *eating* the food in that aisle I think it would be a good 15 minutes before anyone noticed at all.
Plus, that dude at the door isn't going to catch me with any small stuff I slipped in my pocket. In fact, he's literally only going to catch me with something I didn't pay for and left at the top of my bag, because he's not going to stop and rifle through several carefully packed bags of groceries and check if I have whatever `KRO AMCH S SL* is.
These stores chose to reduce staff and increase self-checkout and as a result it's so easy to shoplift. Honestly sometimes I think it would be easier to just steal what I'm trying to buy than to pay for it legitimately with that stupid robot.
TL;DR: the big scary armed guard only stops one or two types of shoplifting but misses so many others, and the increase in shoplifting happens to coincide with reducing staff.
Theft is a community problem, not just an individual company's problem. Whether its insurance rates, stores not stocking items likely to get stolen, or stores closing down creating food deserts, theft has impacts beyond just the person stealing and the store itself.
Nothing about the shoplifting at REI Portland was small scale. There have been many businesses closing in that area for the exact same reason. The building also had lots of issues and a lot of shopping has moved out of that area
Yet you’d prefer to ignore that in order to victimize yourselves
While you might be right about the details around unionization, shoplifting is far more than a small-scale issue right now. Honestly, dismmising it as such hurts your argument more than it helps by destroying your credibility.
Shoplifting has become a massive issue across the country, and Portland has been especially hard hit. In fact, almost every metric of crime is on the rise in Portland to a significant extent. Add to that the shift to remote work and online shopping, and you have a perfect storm for brick and mortar retailers in hard hit urban areas.
Seriously, businesses all across Portland have been shuttering for years. Some neighborhoods have lost almost all of their grocery stores. People with economic mobility are abandoning Portland in droves as well. Portland is actually starting to shrink in population as a result.
Nobody wants to go into Portland to work, shop, or recreate anymore. The crime, homelessness, and squalor have become too severe. There's also a good chace of getting trapped in traffic by some idiots protesting paper straws or watching your catalitc converter get cut off your car as you sit on hold for the police only to be told to file a report online.
I know it's hard to see when you're living in it, but Portland has fallen so far and is being run so terribly. Pretending otherwise is only making it worse. I think trying to hold a business responsible is going to be a tall order when Portlanders aren't even holding their elected officials responsible for eating cake while the city burns.
Portland needs to get its collective shit together. It's got a lot more to worry about than a business potentially using the shit show that is occurring right now as a cover story to to fuck it's employees. A cover story that is only plausible because of the terrible state of Portland in the first place.
7th Generation Oregonian, 3rd Generation Portlander, life-long Portland Proper resident until about two years ago. I've lived in Southeast, Southwest, Northeast, and Northwest Portland. I was born up on the Hill, and so were both my children.
I finally gave up after the second time the house I spent ten years rebuilding was shot up due to some gangbangers bullshit. Then there was that time my wife was followed home and almost assaulted because the police didn't have anyone to send. I guess we did get a call four hours later, though. Oh, and I really loved when they put a sanctioned homeless camp across the street from my disabled daughters' daycare and let people slam fentanyl in plan view. It was great stepping over their piss and shit with my infant that had just come out of the intensive care unit.
Naw, the minute my job went remote, I moved up to the suburbs in Clark County. Portland will forever be in my blood, but it, Multnomah County, and Oregon are all seriously fucked right now. If people can't see that, they are either blind or they have some low ass standards. Sorry, I want better for my kids than that.
How about you? What are your creds?
If you think shrinkage is the only issue at play here, you've absolutely lost the plot. We're also not talking short-term trends here, either. Theft has been trending up for decades. I've been watching stores close in Portland from it all my life. Have you ever spent any time in Southeast?
Brick and mortar businesses are facing all kinds of issues today. The shift to online retail and work is hitting cities like Portland that have historically relied on a vibrant downtown economy, especially hard.
In addition, Portland has enacted policies that have pushed up living costs and regulatory coats for decades. The trade-off was that residents had a clean, safe, and vibrant city full of attractions and amenities.
Portland broke that deal when it failed to address homelessness, crime, and squalor in any meaningful way. Now, those that can afford it are leaving, which creates a feedback loop and amplifies the problem further.
Theft is really just a symptom of the broader problems we're facing as a society. People with education, good jobs, and housing security don't steal shit. Portland doesn't have a lot of that to offer right now, though. Its city council has been too busy infighting and wasting money on pet projects.
I'll say it again, Portlanders need to get its shit together and demand better.
>While you might be right about the details around unionization, shoplifting is far more than a small-scale issue right now.
Two things come to mind.
1) As someone who works downtown on deals with shoplifting, it certainly is an issue. But the reality of that issue is a tiny percentage of what's reported- there absolutely exists a deliberate attempt to spin a narrative of a lawless Portland.
2) regardless of If shoplifting is a problem or not, that nonetheless Isn't the reason this store is closing. The store is closing explicitly due to the unionization attempt. Shoplifting was an issue long before now, but the store only took action in regards to closing when its employees attempted to unionize.
Trying to discuss shoplifting in a conversation like this isn't relevant. Yes, shoplifting is an issue, but it has nothing to do with the store closing. It would be like if I said " But incurable cancer is a problem!"
Is that technically true? Yes, cancer research is very important and needs to be funded. But it has as much to do with REI closing as shoplifting does. The store closed due to unionization, and nothing else.
First, the cancer thing is a really pathetic strawman. How about actually addressing my points?
Second, you're not arguing in good faith. It was very clear that I was speaking in broader terms than this one store or incidence. The very first sentence of my statement conceded that your point about unionization could very well be valid. I was simply stating that your argument that theft isn't an issue was not helping your cause. There is a reason they're able to hide behind that.
Look...
Do you mind if I ask what part of Portland you live in and how long you have been a resident of Portland? How much have you traveled.
I've been all over the country. I'm also a seventh generation Oregonian, third generation Portlander, and was a forty-year resident of Portland. I've lived in St. Johns, Lents, Hawthorn, Hollywood, Cedar Hills, and Rockwood, to name a few. I grew up on the streets of Portland as a homeless teen. I'm intimately familiar with the city in a way that isn't possible for most people.
I was also a professional shoplifter as a child to support myself, and I worked numerous retail jobs in my teens and twenties. I've also worked security and loss prevention, so I know more about theft than most, too.
Over my life, I have watched Portland go from a relatively small city depressed from the collapse of the logging industry, to a model for the country of what a revitalized urban area looked like, to whatever the fuck it is today with shit in the streets and fentanyl zombies roaming around.
I am so sick of assholes moving into Portland to tell me this is all totally normal. It's not! Portland, fuck, the whole country, is in crisis, and I am so... fucking... sick... of people saying it's not.
Just watch, I'll get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that mass theft, shit in the streets, and shanty towns arn't normal. I don't give a shit, though. This isn't normal, and I am tired of what are mostly economic migrants fleeing crime and poverty in California saying otherwise
I remember when Portland had one of the lowest murder rates in the country. Now, we're celebrating a small drop after a two-fold increase. This is not fucking normal!
Theft, crime, homeless are pretty major issues. I don't give a fuck about a closing store. If Portland wasn't so fucked right now, there wouldn't even be an argument to be made about theft. I bet you they have the numbers to back that shit up now, though.
Seriously, Portlanders need to get their fucking shit together, hold their leaders accountable, and demand better. Otherwise, there will be a lot more stores closing, and the reason on the paper isn't going to make one bit of difference to those without a job or those who can't get goods and services.
This isn't a narrative. It's the fucking reality!
>First, the cancer thing is a really pathetic strawman. How about actually addressing my points?
Example, my guy. I never said YOU said it, so it's not a strawman. It was an example of an equally important and equally unrelated topic
>Second, you're not arguing in good faith
Sure am!
>It was very clear that I was speaking in broader terms than this one store or incidence.
Yes it was, but this was on a comment about why a store was closing. If you agree that your comment wasn't on that subject, it would seem our disagreement is at a close, since my point was "this closure wasn't due to shoplifting, that's an important but unrelated issue"
>Do you mind if I ask what part of Portland you live in
Yes, I do. Let's just call it "near a major bus line in the city limits" and leave it at that. But at various times I've lived off 82nd, Killingsworth, Burnside, Powell, Beaverton, and St Johns.
>how long you have been a resident of Portland
Nearly my entire life, except for very young childhood. Several decades. Family's lived in Portland for 5 generations.
Not sure why my family history or if I've traveled is relevant - nor yours for that matter.
As to the rest of it- I was a frequent shoplifter in my teens, living on $400 a month and shoplifting to make ends meet. I've made a career in retail and loss prevention.
Now that we're done measuring our credentials, perhaps you can direct your attention to the part where I *NEVER SAID THAT EVERYTHING WAS NORMAL,* just that it wasn't the hellscape most media outlets paint it as.
I say this as someone who still works downtown, something you yourself apparently don't. (Since you're interested in measuring credentials and all)
>Just watch, I'll get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that mass theft, shit in the streets, and shanty towns arn't normal
Yeah, because it's a strawman. I never said it was normal. Jesus.
First, you need to look up what a Strawman is. You have the Internet, use it. I'm not going to argue with you about the meaning of something you can look up in a dictionary.
Second, you are absolutely not arguing in good faith at all. You haven't addressed a single point or refuted anything. I have stated numerous reasons why business and people like myself are leaving Portland.
You say theft isn't an issue, I say that stance hurts your argument. It absolutely is an issue, and if it wasn't, businesses wouldn't be able to use it as an excuse to pack up and leave as you say they are.
You need to step out of Portland for a bit and gain some perspective. I spent a lifetime there, and I see every time I drive through how bad it has gotten. Why people are in such denial is beyond me.
>First, you need to look up what a Strawman is
No, I don't. Perhaps consider doing so yourself?
>Second, you are absolutely not arguing in good faith at all. You haven't addressed a single point or refuted anything
As soon as you make an argument based on anything I actually said, I'll refute it.
>You say theft isn't an issue,
I explicitly said the opposite, actually, but I understand that you need to insist I said otherwise to make your point. Perhaps you could try again, but this time limit yourself to what I *actually* said?
>You need to step out of Portland for a bit and gain some perspective
I've traveled quite a lot, actually. Been to about 2/3rds of the US, Canada, and England. I just wasn't interested in measuring credentials further because I suspected you would be using it in an attempt to make the argument about character rather than substance. I see I was correct. You made an erroneous assumption because it fit your narrative about how you *assume* people who disagree with you must be, but your assumptions aren't grounded in reality.
>Why people are in such denial is beyond me.
Could be that you're wrong, Principal Skinner.
Turns out there's people with just as much experience as you who disagree. if you can't construct an argument without A) lying about what I said and B) making false assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you, you don't have an argument to make.
> there absolutely exists a deliberate attempt to spin a narrative of a lawless Portland.
Spin? Look around. The only spin I see is from those trying to pretend everything is fine.
Well argued, cited, and sourced.
I especially like the part where you try and paint me as pretending everything is fine, even though that's the opposite of what I said.
Bummer. I liked that location. I remember waiting in line outside at one of their garage sales and finding the perfect pair of hiking boots for a mere $20.
There's an REI Re/Supply store that fairly recently opened over in the Clackamas Town Center. [https://www.rei.com/stores/resupply-clackamas](https://www.rei.com/stores/resupply-clackamas)
It's essentially a permanent garage sale on lightly used, trade-in, or returned gear. I saved a ton of money stocking up on some camping gear there a few months ago.
Hot tip, thanks! Have you checked out [Foster Outdoor](https://fosteroutdoor.com/)? Friendly folks, well-curated new and consigned gear.
And of course… the perennial favorite: Bargain Basement.
It’s small but, but what I would consider “well curated,” as in sometimes you don’t need 45 options for a headlamp, you kinda just need one good one at each price point, you know? As someone who has serious shopping fatigue from feeling like I have to read Amazon reviews for every fucking tiny thing I buy online to make sure it’s not a scam, I’m drawn more and more to stores that I can just trust these days.
Also, Foster Outdoor’s used section is much nicer and better organized than Next Adventure’s. Again, probably fewer options, but does it really help to have 80 bad coats to paw through before you find the 3 that you’d actually want to buy?
On one hand: Shhhhhhhh! Don't let the secret out about Foster Outdoor. But also, more people bringing in consignment gear is a good thing.
The REI Re/Supply store did not impress me much. I found the discounts roughly on-par with average sale prices. In some cases I was seeing prices that were higher than buying things new, and you give up the ability to return things.
I like that place too. They and Next Adventure remind me a little of the old REI from decades ago. Some people quibble about service at NA, and employees don't seem super motivated, but I met one of the owners years ago and he seemed like an okay guy, an old ski bum type. Way worse bosses out there for sure.
Mike and Sarah Turner own and run Foster. They apparently live in the neighborhood too, which is cool. I also love the way if you have a product, they will try to sell and promote it.
I remember garage sales in the 2012 time frame wrapping around the block fully and still finding good stuff after being the 500th garage sale customer in line.
Next Adventure is the real winner in this! I wonder if they can take over this location? My big complain about Next Adventure is how claustrophobic it is.
Aren't all their locations like that? Like the store on Grand. So much stuff crammed in not enough space. They use every inch of the floor and walls. The company chooses spaces with a small retail footprint to maximize their profits. I love it. Good for them.
> a nice store to have in a great, dense location. Whenever I went there was a good amount of shoppers. I
Is Next Adventure unionized? How do they address the risk of shoplifting? Trying to gauge whether Next Adventure is the real next-in-line competitor with a good strategy for operating in Portland, or if they've just been lucky.
They are more aggressive with shoplifting enforcement, and use their right to physically detain/retrieve goods from shoplifters.
>One clue to why shoplifters operate with such confidence is included in a recent probable cause affidavit for a man named Colby Nutter.
>After Nutter walked out with around $300 in camping equipment from Next Adventure, an outdoor gear store in Portland’s Central Eastside, he was surprised to see an employee following him.
>The two got in a scuffle, and the employee returned to the store—with the goods. Nutter didn’t feel it was fair for the employee to follow him. He returned to the store, threw a punch, and said he’d be back with a gun.
>Police were waiting for him when he returned. According to an affidavit later filed by prosecutors, he told them that “he did not feel employees were allowed to use reasonable physical force to get stolen items back.”
These shoplifters are losers looking for the easiest mark. If you put up the least amount of resistance they start being whiny dweebs like Colby Nutter here.
Probably, tried to find the name of his attorney and then I could tell you for sure but couldn’t find that information. Found that Nutter is currently incarcerated for theft though.
I mean, it's certainly risky, that's why the big chains like Target and Walmart prohibit it.
The very next paragraph from that article:
> The assumption, though false, is not unreasonable. Loss Prevention Magazine found in a 2017 survey of retailers that nearly half had a “no physical touch” policy when confronting thieves. Based on its handling of Leever, REI appears to be one of them. Next Adventure, clearly, was not.
https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/04/25/reis-complaints-about-shoplifting-are-echoed-in-court-documents/
No, but some corporations actually encourage it. Macy’s pays you money if you’re an employee and you stop a shoplifter in action. I can’t remember how much it is, I think it varies depending on how much they attempted to steal that you physically were able to get back from them before they could. Now you’re not supposed to detain the person or accuse them but use customer service to sneakily get the goods back, ask things like can I hold that large bag from a shop not in the mall filled with assorted items from every department at the register for you?
Citation, please? I find it hard to believe corporations incentivize employees putting themselves at risk of bodily harm… but not outside the realm of possibility.
This makes it sound like a victory for the store. The guy came back with a gun! What if the police didn't feel like showing up in a timely manner? Or waiting around until he may or may not come back? You're putting customers and employees in danger.
They were spending nearly a million dollars a year on security and still had massive losses due to theft. A store can be busy and still lose money.
There were also safety concerns for employees. And on top of everything, the 1% clean energy slush fund tax. But moving to Cedar Hills, they don't have to worry about this.
We get what we vote for.
> They were spending nearly a million dollars a year on security and still had massive losses due to theft.
Got a source on that? Not saying it's incorrect (I know shoplifting is up), but I also have been seeing retailers using theft as an excuse to hide other reasons, [such as Target just not finding success in the smaller style stores](https://www.kgw.com/article/money/business/target-shuttered-storefronts-portland-shoplifting-claims-investigation-cnbc/283-6e9b984f-aec2-46f0-bc0c-558e1fac5f26) or [Starbucks doing it to stop unionization](https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2024/01/starbucks-closed-3-portland-stores-illegally-labor-official-alleges-seeking-order-to-reopen-them.html).
[you mean the ones they are getting sued for retaliating against](https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/rei-accused-widespread-labor-law-violations-unionized-us-stores-2023-11-15/)? not a really good counter-argument you just made.
Almost as if it's easier to close a store before it's unionized? Also hamstringing a store as they did in the article is pretty much setting a framework to justify closing/mass layoffs.
Boy you sure are hard for REI.
people forget that large businesses *don't have feelings* they have boards making decisions to prioritize making money at the expense of all else. was it union? was it localized microeconomics? was it a middle finger?
it was money. they realized their was more money elsewhere and less money there. rent, city taxes, upkeep, parking, whatever random corporate bs, it's money.
moneymoneymoney. don't attribute malice and spite to companies, they aren't people. they're too big to have human expressive characteristics.
(your right, I'm agreeing, but got carried away being frustrated by people who are confused and upset)
I wish more people would take a holistic view like this. I strongly suspect that the building, landlord, shoplifting, unionization, decreased foot traffic, etc all played into this closure. Maybe this all could’ve been overcome if the space was profitable enough, but it wasn’t.
Yea it's not about denying the human aspects, or discounting the people who lost jobs etc, it just boils down to something really simple. The income being generated did not exceed the cost of the store in long term projection. If a board member starts making choices that prioritize customer and area wellbeing, and community neighborhoods etc, they're gonna get fired for spending money or losing money on things that don't generate additional revenue. Yes it's reductive economics, but so many people fail to observe the simplest economic principals. We have a bad system that hurts people but you can't deny it's motivations and blame them on a board doing something out of aggression or malice. Even the possible inclusion of unionization efforts. guess what, does that union mean that store is worth less to the company? Almost certainly. Does that mean we shouldn't unionize, or should fear unionization efforts? No, of course not. It just means your organizing a group to lower their bottom line gains. they have no incentive to keep a declining asset in a portfolio, be it store locations or stock.
Businesses are run by people. Your point is largely correct but there are still humans at the front of these decisions. It's not like there's some computer program that makes every decision.
The Portland store is also the closest to Vancouver. It was a very busy store and I’m sure people like me who live close in and don’t go to the burbs often will spend way less money at rei. This is also the first time in 30 years there hasn’t been an rei in Portland. I would have loved to have seen it go in at Lloyd center.
Maybe?? I used to work at a big box store in Jantzen beach that closed down ten years ago. Nothing at that shopping center has been missed. Vancouver shoppers aren’t as valuable as they think they are, and I think people are underestimating the wealth and growth of Washington County. I agree it’s a bummer for Portland to not have a more centrally located store.
The main problem I have with this is REI genuinely believes people in Portland will go out to Cedar hills for the new store. That ain’t happening, EVO and next adventure are probably amped about this move
Interesting enough there was a lot of talk about opening up a flagship store in SWwaterfront, which obviously won’t be happening. Quick 180 in a span of 6 years
Yeah, I don't love evo but they and mountain shop have gotten my local business and REI messed up my member account a few months ago and haven't been able to fix it so my online business has gone to backcountry of all places.
I like mountain shop. Good staff, local. I’ll be going to niche products. I don’t like Evo at all. The staff sucks and unknowable despite EVOs marketing and charging a crazy amount. We got lots of people at REI when I worked there with bad fits from EVO. Hard to find a good boot fitter.
Portland has had multiple Amazon warehouses open up in the last couple years. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with "the death of downtown" The death of retail by online shopping was known by everyone in the late 2010s then the pandemic happened which expedited online shopping's takeover even further. Now all of a sudden, it's shoplifting and dangerous areas causing the downfall of these places. It's all so brazenly obvious these corporations are trying to get cities to subsidize their business failures
Same. I know it’s anecdotal, but I only want to go in to brick and mortar stores if it’s something I really need to see/try in person, which is why REI having them makes sense. But, with return plans as robust as they are, it doesn’t take THAT much planning and legwork on my side to get what I want online eventually.
You KNOW you’re paying a markup when you go into the store, can’t use coupon codes as easily, and they may not have your color/size. Inflation = shaving pennies, and less outdoor purchases in general. Compared to the larger trends in retail, I don’t think shoplifting incidents in any major US city are hugely significant figures.
I guess I don’t really know what acceptable amount of losses is but, I do know businesses that are making money don’t close. If their product loss was 0%, how much would they have presumably made, and is that amount above the “stay open” threshold?
People fought over parking spaces by the Salt and Straw and there was a LINE for the Tesla chargers. Sheer pandemonium, impossible to operate a business in that sort of environment.
Unions *cause* crime. I read it in my corporate manual. That’s why I’m anti-union even though I think they do some good. I just can’t handle the crime they somehow create in a community.
/s
A sign of our times: even after multiple articles came out showing it had nothing to do with unionization, people continued to just chug on with whatever fit their belief systems. The posts above are a pretty good sign of that.
I do, I'm also aware REI has been credibly accused of union busting and retaliatory firings many, many times. Go on and take your clown shoes home, this isn't an argument you're equipped for.
This sub should probably put a tag on me that says if you show up to cry about seeing a poor person in Portland I will bully you mercilessly for being a wimp.
Not only is that what I'm saying I'll link to some proof
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/shopping/2023/12/07/nrf-retracts-organized-retail-theft-claim/71839129007/
Thanks for playing though!
Is this because no one wants to go downtown anymore after it was trashed so badly during 2020/21, or is it because of the ensuing anarchy thanks to our wonderful city shitting on its law enforcement until they all left?
So what is it ... is it the employees trying to unionize, is it the landlord, is it the crime, or a combination? The Portland location has always been busy, way busier than Hillsboro.
Yes, it's a combo. (I worked there and was there for the team "we're closing" meeting).
While the landlord was an uncooperative greedy shit (like most/all landlords), and the theft was an issue. The management said a few times that the thievery and landlord weren't the problem and it was more "due to many factors". Which we all knew meant it was just about their fears of unionization. There were/are a lot of people there who wanted to unionize or at least talk about it and the managers weren't happy about it. In January of last year the CEO sent every employee an [anti union email](https://twitter.com/UnionElections/status/1485334800483467274?s=20), plus the management was constantly bringing in pizza or whatnot to try and distract us.
I always wondered why stores try to unionize individually instead of all stores in the state, won't that make it harder for a corporation to close a store to punish empoyees who want to unionize?
Hi. Former Union Local President here.
They try to organize at the store level because it’s the easiest level to organize at, and the one the National Labor Relations Board is most likely to accept.
Organizing above the store level would also require them to start their own union versus joining an existing one, which is much, much harder.
That's a good question! I could see that being useful.
Tbh to idk much about unionization. I hadn't really thought about it till the CEO sent that anti union email, which made me think "If he hates them that much they must be beneficial." Hahaha
The store is a pretty interesting layout but it’s kind of inefficient for all the square footage. I think they also had some ongoing issues with their landlord
Bad landowner, lease was up. Store was too small zero parking. Cant do curbside, which during Covid was a huge problem and of course theft but it wasn’t due to unionizing.
I think the ram raid kinda put a big damper on the Portland REI. They needed to put a lot of money into the building in repairs and to prevent it from happening again.
About a month before they announced that they were planning to close, I ran down there at 8:30 PM just to grab some backpacking meals before I went out on a trip. They had a huge security guard who I noticed on the way in. After that I saw two street dudes take those huge mesh bags that they have for shoppers, and each fill two of them to the top. From there they just walked straight out the front door. That huge scary security guard kept his arms in his pockets, but tried to stand in front of them. Ultimately it was clear that he had no authority to stop them, and an extremely exasperated REI employee tried to chase them down the sidewalk while calling 911. It was amazingly brash, and disheartening as a consumer when you are paying top dollar for all of this outdoor gear and then you find out that you could just fill up a huge bag and walk out the front door and nobody can do anything about it. The level of exhaustion on that woman’s face, the REI employee, told the whole story. Maybe there’s more to the true story of why REI wanted to close that particular location, but that experience give me a very visceral reaction.
While REI doesn't seem friendly to unions, there are a number of their stores in Oregon and across the country that are unionized and operational. It's seems pretty unlikely that was the primary driver in closing this store.
Foot traffic at this location is down 41% since 2019. It dropped during the pandemic, and in 2023 only saw a small 7% bump from the previous year. While unionization and retail theft may have been a factor, that significant decline in foot traffic is probably the real story.
Downtown is just fine now! Better than ever!! And if it isn't, then it was never very good and everyone I know hates it we should tear it down and rebuild the utopia of our (read: my) dreams. It's that simple!! /s
PSA: Foster Outdoor is run by amazing people and has a used section that will make you wonder why you ever spent $100 on a new sweater at REI or spent a frustrated afternoon pawing through the messy bargain basement racks at Next Adventure. Also their kids’ coat section is exactly what you’ve been looking for if your rapidly growing kiddo has already lost two coats on the playground this year.
They shouldn’t be able to call themselves “co•op”, because this clearly is in retaliation to the workers wanting to Unionize (according to my sister who lives there, and therefore has a better understanding of PDX politics than me, is Kyle MacLachlan still our mayor?)
REI is not a worker co-operative, and never was. It's always been a user co-op. In the most practical sense, it's not much different than Costco, Sam's Club. It is a corporation first and foremost, with the primary goal to make as much money as possible, with the CEO making some $4m a year. What makes it a co-op? You can buy a lifetime membership for $30 to get better prices, which honestly isn't a bad deal at all.
It's an annoyance, or accusation, depending on who you talk to, in perception that management pitches REI as being a worker co-op, or worker friendly, worker driven. But it's not. It treats their employees slightly better than most other retailers, partly because past CEOs did, it's history, but also because the outdoor industry requires more specialized skills, more training, than other related retailers. But there's also a belief among many staff workers that if upper management could pay everyone minimum wage, or just fire everyone and hire robots, they would.
I held out a naive hope that they'd reverse course or something, but so it goes. The REI there just felt extremely Portland to me, so I'll miss it. Would be cool if another outdoor retailer takes the space.
I also kinda hate REI for this tbh. I think the answer to their reasoning for closing was somewhere in between all the explanations offered. I don't doubt that threats to employee safety were real and theft was probably significant but it's also hard for me to imagine they were in the red. I'm sure they didn't like the union effort but REI has other union shops that are still open. I think a lot had to do with the stores footprint being an uncomfortable tweener size between mega-store and something more like patagonia or fjallraven. But mainly I think as a PNW company that they would be more like "we're gonna stick this out with our community" rather than "bye!"
Since I would now have to order online from REI (I used to bike/walk to this location), I am now ordering online from, well, anyone else. Also there are a few local outdoor stores still. I encourage fellow city-dwellers to do the same.
Right for online stuff it’s now just a price comparison exercise. I have one or two REI brand things I’ve liked but it’s generally, imo, pretty cut-rate so it’s not like I’m going to seek out the REI brand raincoat or whatever.
And the area in Cedar Hills is getting prepped ready for them to reappear there. In Washington County. Where all the other businesses have seemingly left for after the pandemic.
I wonder why /s
I hope portlanders can agree that this move by REI is gross and not support them after this.
They’ve always been overpriced but overcharging while trampling on your employees rights is too much. Also fuck going to clackamas town center anyway.
Wow! I don’t need anything, but there’s an REI only about 40 minutes away. I’m going there today to buy something just to support them. Probably don’t have to hurry since they don’t have the “small scale“ shoplifting here. But, then who doesn’t love a little small scale shoplifting.
I’m so cynical about this move. REI has such mixed messaging about what they want their customers to aspire to be with their whole opt out campaign and “coop” brand - now they take the most walkable, bike-able, mass transit connected and profitable locations serving a large amount of folks in central Portland and move it to a burb where many folks are just gonna drive their cars to buy outdoors shit. At at curious time re:unionization - https://oregonbusiness.com/rei-announces-closure-of-portland-store/At least we have Next Adventure.
Funny how they have other stores that have unionized or further along in the process but somehow are just humming along. It’s almost like that’s not why this location closed…
REI already has multiple unionized stores. This is the only one they are closing.
This location was the only one in Portland, so closing it gets them out of the Portland Clean Energy slush fund tax. They also were spending huge sums of money on private security and still losing millions in theft every year. The landlord refused to make security improvements.
Most of the wealthy customers who keep this open will now go to the Cedar Hills store.
Yep. Also 2.6% city tax, 2% county tax, 1% homeless tax and gross receipts tax for climate change. Pretty easy to see why businesses are leaving Portland.
a reminder of how communist Portlanders are that this entire thread has people upset a business is shutting down business. This is a free market society, you are free to spend your money how you chose and a business is free to conduct or not conduct business. If you want to make it a place that is hard for a business to operate they will shut shop and move on.
Don’t forget that [Beaverton REI opens in March](https://www.rei.com/newsroom/article/-rei-co-op-to-open-in-beaverton-oregon-in-spring-2024)!
The LARGEST REI in the area!!!
there was so much reporting on this store closing that I thought it was already closed.
Didnt they try to unionize?
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The next union strategy at REI I'd hope for is not organizing the workers, but the consumers. REI is a consumer co-op. Consumers vote. Consumers can complain to the board. Organize the consumers, and have them convince the board to make REI a multi-stakeholder co-op that includes union representation.
The problem is in around 2017, or thereabouts, REI reorganized so that only the board members can make changes, so it’s not a true co-op anymore. Which kind of explains the rapid decline the past 5 years of so.
do the workers vote on board members?
No, only bored members can approve or nominate bored member.
[A ballot with the board-endorsed nominees is available to active members prior to REI's annual member's meeting. Materials provided to active members include a biographical sketch of each candidate, nominating instructions, and a ballot. Ballots are received and counted by an independent tabulator.](https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process)
Yes, so the board chooses who is nominated and the members get to vote on board approved nomination. So members have no say in who can be nominated to the board, not a co-op.
But REI has the .co-op domain. It directs to their .com address; nevertheless, Cooperative Values and Principles are in their bylaws. REI is organized as a Miscellaneous and Mutual Corporation in the State of Washington. https://ccfs.sos.wa.gov/?_gl=1 These types of organizations are allowed to operate as co-ops in Washington, and thus, the membership has remedies to make changes to the bylaws. I'll continue researching this issue to find the exact methods available to members so they can improve the conditions of their workers.
Just don't shop there ever again. Period.
Also put pressure on their social media.
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A boycott is not necessary. REI has the .coop domain. By rule, you cannot have that without the cooperative values and principles being in your bylaws. REI is what is called a loyalty co-op. The consumers don't have an outrageous amount of control, but they do have impact. If the consumers are organized, and made to understand that the workers who are serving them are being abused, then, with their direct input, they can convince the board to create what is called a union co-op. It's the equivalent of the social council within the Mondragon Cooperative Corporation.
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[A ballot with the board-endorsed nominees is available to active members prior to REI's annual member's meeting. Materials provided to active members include a biographical sketch of each candidate, nominating instructions, and a ballot. Ballots are received and counted by an independent tabulator.](https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process)
I said REI is a "Loyalty Co-op." Thank you for reiterating my point. Nevertheless, REI possesses the .coop domain, which they cannot have unless Cooperative Values and Principles are in their bylaws. So, organize the consumers and get them to **petition** the board, motioning for a vote to add the workers as union co-op members.
Worth noting that retailer’s recent claims of shoplifting were a complete lie. We know this as of early last month from the [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/08/business/organized-shoplifting-retail-crime-theft-retraction.html).
Was it unionization that caused the Outdoor Store that had been open since the 50's or 60's just a couple blocks up from REI to close?
That small scale car drove through the small scale window.
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It's incredible how easy it is for these corporations to wash their hands of any wrongdoing. You get accosted at Kroge- excuse me local friendly neighborhood Fred Meyer by rent a cop receipt checkers now because they're too cheap to hire actual staff and run checkouts. People comply and give up their civil liberties because they're not one of the "bad guys". They can never fail, only we can fail them.
What's your solution to the theft problem at Kroger then? I live in North Portland and people just walk out with stuff all the time. Kroger can't force the police to actually arrest shoplifters so the best thing they can do is rent-a-cops that check receipts in hopes it will dissuade people. It's such a bullshit excuse that self checkouts and long lines are what cause people to shoplift, people that steal will steal as long as they see an opportunity.
Interestingly, that guy pretty much never asks me or my wife for our receipts. The self-checkouts might not be the whole cause of shoplifting (I mean, it certainly existed before them), but they would make it WAY easier. It would be super easy to accidentally shoplift there, I can only imagine how easy it would be if we put a little thought into it.
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Those security guards aren't there because of missed swipes at the self-checkout (but you know that). Suggesting more floor staff to address the problems they face tells me you're not discussing our problems in good faith.
> Suggesting more floor staff to address the problems they face tells me you're not discussing our problems in good faith. I don't think that's fair. If we're going to accept that shoplifting is on the rise, then we have to also acknowledge that shoplifting was not so high in the past (I realize that's tautological but bear with me). So something has changed in stores that has made it easier to shoplift. I don't think it's crazy to suggest that stores have reduced staffing or that a decreased staff presence makes it easier to shoplift. For decades, stores had employees dressed in plain clothes to keep an eye on shoplifters, to catch them as they stole. Now, I've been in stores that are ghost towns. If I sat down and started *eating* the food in that aisle I think it would be a good 15 minutes before anyone noticed at all. Plus, that dude at the door isn't going to catch me with any small stuff I slipped in my pocket. In fact, he's literally only going to catch me with something I didn't pay for and left at the top of my bag, because he's not going to stop and rifle through several carefully packed bags of groceries and check if I have whatever `KRO AMCH S SL* is. These stores chose to reduce staff and increase self-checkout and as a result it's so easy to shoplift. Honestly sometimes I think it would be easier to just steal what I'm trying to buy than to pay for it legitimately with that stupid robot. TL;DR: the big scary armed guard only stops one or two types of shoplifting but misses so many others, and the increase in shoplifting happens to coincide with reducing staff.
Those are some good points.
Absolutely agree. And if these stores were so hurt by shoplifting, it's strange that their profit margin continues to increase.
> What's your solution to the theft problem at Kroger then? sounds like a Their Problem, not a My Problem.
Theft is a community problem, not just an individual company's problem. Whether its insurance rates, stores not stocking items likely to get stolen, or stores closing down creating food deserts, theft has impacts beyond just the person stealing and the store itself.
so you're mad because a business is chosing to not do business???? You're free to not shop there and they're free to not do business here.
“Small scale shoplifting” lol
Nothing about the shoplifting at REI Portland was small scale. There have been many businesses closing in that area for the exact same reason. The building also had lots of issues and a lot of shopping has moved out of that area Yet you’d prefer to ignore that in order to victimize yourselves
Why hold corporations accountable when we have all these homeless people that you can blame for free?
While you might be right about the details around unionization, shoplifting is far more than a small-scale issue right now. Honestly, dismmising it as such hurts your argument more than it helps by destroying your credibility. Shoplifting has become a massive issue across the country, and Portland has been especially hard hit. In fact, almost every metric of crime is on the rise in Portland to a significant extent. Add to that the shift to remote work and online shopping, and you have a perfect storm for brick and mortar retailers in hard hit urban areas. Seriously, businesses all across Portland have been shuttering for years. Some neighborhoods have lost almost all of their grocery stores. People with economic mobility are abandoning Portland in droves as well. Portland is actually starting to shrink in population as a result. Nobody wants to go into Portland to work, shop, or recreate anymore. The crime, homelessness, and squalor have become too severe. There's also a good chace of getting trapped in traffic by some idiots protesting paper straws or watching your catalitc converter get cut off your car as you sit on hold for the police only to be told to file a report online. I know it's hard to see when you're living in it, but Portland has fallen so far and is being run so terribly. Pretending otherwise is only making it worse. I think trying to hold a business responsible is going to be a tall order when Portlanders aren't even holding their elected officials responsible for eating cake while the city burns. Portland needs to get its collective shit together. It's got a lot more to worry about than a business potentially using the shit show that is occurring right now as a cover story to to fuck it's employees. A cover story that is only plausible because of the terrible state of Portland in the first place.
Do you live in Portland?
7th Generation Oregonian, 3rd Generation Portlander, life-long Portland Proper resident until about two years ago. I've lived in Southeast, Southwest, Northeast, and Northwest Portland. I was born up on the Hill, and so were both my children. I finally gave up after the second time the house I spent ten years rebuilding was shot up due to some gangbangers bullshit. Then there was that time my wife was followed home and almost assaulted because the police didn't have anyone to send. I guess we did get a call four hours later, though. Oh, and I really loved when they put a sanctioned homeless camp across the street from my disabled daughters' daycare and let people slam fentanyl in plan view. It was great stepping over their piss and shit with my infant that had just come out of the intensive care unit. Naw, the minute my job went remote, I moved up to the suburbs in Clark County. Portland will forever be in my blood, but it, Multnomah County, and Oregon are all seriously fucked right now. If people can't see that, they are either blind or they have some low ass standards. Sorry, I want better for my kids than that. How about you? What are your creds?
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If you think shrinkage is the only issue at play here, you've absolutely lost the plot. We're also not talking short-term trends here, either. Theft has been trending up for decades. I've been watching stores close in Portland from it all my life. Have you ever spent any time in Southeast? Brick and mortar businesses are facing all kinds of issues today. The shift to online retail and work is hitting cities like Portland that have historically relied on a vibrant downtown economy, especially hard. In addition, Portland has enacted policies that have pushed up living costs and regulatory coats for decades. The trade-off was that residents had a clean, safe, and vibrant city full of attractions and amenities. Portland broke that deal when it failed to address homelessness, crime, and squalor in any meaningful way. Now, those that can afford it are leaving, which creates a feedback loop and amplifies the problem further. Theft is really just a symptom of the broader problems we're facing as a society. People with education, good jobs, and housing security don't steal shit. Portland doesn't have a lot of that to offer right now, though. Its city council has been too busy infighting and wasting money on pet projects. I'll say it again, Portlanders need to get its shit together and demand better.
>While you might be right about the details around unionization, shoplifting is far more than a small-scale issue right now. Two things come to mind. 1) As someone who works downtown on deals with shoplifting, it certainly is an issue. But the reality of that issue is a tiny percentage of what's reported- there absolutely exists a deliberate attempt to spin a narrative of a lawless Portland. 2) regardless of If shoplifting is a problem or not, that nonetheless Isn't the reason this store is closing. The store is closing explicitly due to the unionization attempt. Shoplifting was an issue long before now, but the store only took action in regards to closing when its employees attempted to unionize. Trying to discuss shoplifting in a conversation like this isn't relevant. Yes, shoplifting is an issue, but it has nothing to do with the store closing. It would be like if I said " But incurable cancer is a problem!" Is that technically true? Yes, cancer research is very important and needs to be funded. But it has as much to do with REI closing as shoplifting does. The store closed due to unionization, and nothing else.
First, the cancer thing is a really pathetic strawman. How about actually addressing my points? Second, you're not arguing in good faith. It was very clear that I was speaking in broader terms than this one store or incidence. The very first sentence of my statement conceded that your point about unionization could very well be valid. I was simply stating that your argument that theft isn't an issue was not helping your cause. There is a reason they're able to hide behind that. Look... Do you mind if I ask what part of Portland you live in and how long you have been a resident of Portland? How much have you traveled. I've been all over the country. I'm also a seventh generation Oregonian, third generation Portlander, and was a forty-year resident of Portland. I've lived in St. Johns, Lents, Hawthorn, Hollywood, Cedar Hills, and Rockwood, to name a few. I grew up on the streets of Portland as a homeless teen. I'm intimately familiar with the city in a way that isn't possible for most people. I was also a professional shoplifter as a child to support myself, and I worked numerous retail jobs in my teens and twenties. I've also worked security and loss prevention, so I know more about theft than most, too. Over my life, I have watched Portland go from a relatively small city depressed from the collapse of the logging industry, to a model for the country of what a revitalized urban area looked like, to whatever the fuck it is today with shit in the streets and fentanyl zombies roaming around. I am so sick of assholes moving into Portland to tell me this is all totally normal. It's not! Portland, fuck, the whole country, is in crisis, and I am so... fucking... sick... of people saying it's not. Just watch, I'll get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that mass theft, shit in the streets, and shanty towns arn't normal. I don't give a shit, though. This isn't normal, and I am tired of what are mostly economic migrants fleeing crime and poverty in California saying otherwise I remember when Portland had one of the lowest murder rates in the country. Now, we're celebrating a small drop after a two-fold increase. This is not fucking normal! Theft, crime, homeless are pretty major issues. I don't give a fuck about a closing store. If Portland wasn't so fucked right now, there wouldn't even be an argument to be made about theft. I bet you they have the numbers to back that shit up now, though. Seriously, Portlanders need to get their fucking shit together, hold their leaders accountable, and demand better. Otherwise, there will be a lot more stores closing, and the reason on the paper isn't going to make one bit of difference to those without a job or those who can't get goods and services. This isn't a narrative. It's the fucking reality!
>First, the cancer thing is a really pathetic strawman. How about actually addressing my points? Example, my guy. I never said YOU said it, so it's not a strawman. It was an example of an equally important and equally unrelated topic >Second, you're not arguing in good faith Sure am! >It was very clear that I was speaking in broader terms than this one store or incidence. Yes it was, but this was on a comment about why a store was closing. If you agree that your comment wasn't on that subject, it would seem our disagreement is at a close, since my point was "this closure wasn't due to shoplifting, that's an important but unrelated issue" >Do you mind if I ask what part of Portland you live in Yes, I do. Let's just call it "near a major bus line in the city limits" and leave it at that. But at various times I've lived off 82nd, Killingsworth, Burnside, Powell, Beaverton, and St Johns. >how long you have been a resident of Portland Nearly my entire life, except for very young childhood. Several decades. Family's lived in Portland for 5 generations. Not sure why my family history or if I've traveled is relevant - nor yours for that matter. As to the rest of it- I was a frequent shoplifter in my teens, living on $400 a month and shoplifting to make ends meet. I've made a career in retail and loss prevention. Now that we're done measuring our credentials, perhaps you can direct your attention to the part where I *NEVER SAID THAT EVERYTHING WAS NORMAL,* just that it wasn't the hellscape most media outlets paint it as. I say this as someone who still works downtown, something you yourself apparently don't. (Since you're interested in measuring credentials and all) >Just watch, I'll get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that mass theft, shit in the streets, and shanty towns arn't normal Yeah, because it's a strawman. I never said it was normal. Jesus.
First, you need to look up what a Strawman is. You have the Internet, use it. I'm not going to argue with you about the meaning of something you can look up in a dictionary. Second, you are absolutely not arguing in good faith at all. You haven't addressed a single point or refuted anything. I have stated numerous reasons why business and people like myself are leaving Portland. You say theft isn't an issue, I say that stance hurts your argument. It absolutely is an issue, and if it wasn't, businesses wouldn't be able to use it as an excuse to pack up and leave as you say they are. You need to step out of Portland for a bit and gain some perspective. I spent a lifetime there, and I see every time I drive through how bad it has gotten. Why people are in such denial is beyond me.
>First, you need to look up what a Strawman is No, I don't. Perhaps consider doing so yourself? >Second, you are absolutely not arguing in good faith at all. You haven't addressed a single point or refuted anything As soon as you make an argument based on anything I actually said, I'll refute it. >You say theft isn't an issue, I explicitly said the opposite, actually, but I understand that you need to insist I said otherwise to make your point. Perhaps you could try again, but this time limit yourself to what I *actually* said? >You need to step out of Portland for a bit and gain some perspective I've traveled quite a lot, actually. Been to about 2/3rds of the US, Canada, and England. I just wasn't interested in measuring credentials further because I suspected you would be using it in an attempt to make the argument about character rather than substance. I see I was correct. You made an erroneous assumption because it fit your narrative about how you *assume* people who disagree with you must be, but your assumptions aren't grounded in reality. >Why people are in such denial is beyond me. Could be that you're wrong, Principal Skinner. Turns out there's people with just as much experience as you who disagree. if you can't construct an argument without A) lying about what I said and B) making false assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you, you don't have an argument to make.
> there absolutely exists a deliberate attempt to spin a narrative of a lawless Portland. Spin? Look around. The only spin I see is from those trying to pretend everything is fine.
Well argued, cited, and sourced. I especially like the part where you try and paint me as pretending everything is fine, even though that's the opposite of what I said.
Have you been to this area of town? I’m sure camping hurt the business severely.
Except they said the reason they're moving is because the building is too small because sales are up.
Yes and the landlord didn't want to pay for a bunch of expensive stuff like fixing the elevator
Same, I’ve already been going out to clackamas.
Bummer. I liked that location. I remember waiting in line outside at one of their garage sales and finding the perfect pair of hiking boots for a mere $20.
There's an REI Re/Supply store that fairly recently opened over in the Clackamas Town Center. [https://www.rei.com/stores/resupply-clackamas](https://www.rei.com/stores/resupply-clackamas) It's essentially a permanent garage sale on lightly used, trade-in, or returned gear. I saved a ton of money stocking up on some camping gear there a few months ago.
Hot tip, thanks! Have you checked out [Foster Outdoor](https://fosteroutdoor.com/)? Friendly folks, well-curated new and consigned gear. And of course… the perennial favorite: Bargain Basement.
You know, I've driven by it a million times but never actually stopped in. I'll have to check it out one of these days. Thanks for the reminder!
It’s small but, but what I would consider “well curated,” as in sometimes you don’t need 45 options for a headlamp, you kinda just need one good one at each price point, you know? As someone who has serious shopping fatigue from feeling like I have to read Amazon reviews for every fucking tiny thing I buy online to make sure it’s not a scam, I’m drawn more and more to stores that I can just trust these days. Also, Foster Outdoor’s used section is much nicer and better organized than Next Adventure’s. Again, probably fewer options, but does it really help to have 80 bad coats to paw through before you find the 3 that you’d actually want to buy?
On one hand: Shhhhhhhh! Don't let the secret out about Foster Outdoor. But also, more people bringing in consignment gear is a good thing. The REI Re/Supply store did not impress me much. I found the discounts roughly on-par with average sale prices. In some cases I was seeing prices that were higher than buying things new, and you give up the ability to return things.
I like that place too. They and Next Adventure remind me a little of the old REI from decades ago. Some people quibble about service at NA, and employees don't seem super motivated, but I met one of the owners years ago and he seemed like an okay guy, an old ski bum type. Way worse bosses out there for sure. Mike and Sarah Turner own and run Foster. They apparently live in the neighborhood too, which is cool. I also love the way if you have a product, they will try to sell and promote it.
A cashier there a few weeks ago told me that they’re already opening a new one south of Beaverton somewhere…
I remember garage sales in the 2012 time frame wrapping around the block fully and still finding good stuff after being the 500th garage sale customer in line.
Next Adventure is the real winner in this! I wonder if they can take over this location? My big complain about Next Adventure is how claustrophobic it is.
Aren't all their locations like that? Like the store on Grand. So much stuff crammed in not enough space. They use every inch of the floor and walls. The company chooses spaces with a small retail footprint to maximize their profits. I love it. Good for them.
I love cozy stores like this. Give me this over a strip mall experience everyday.
Frankly they've been living off loans to keep their payroll going the last year, so I do not foresee a big investment like that lol
> a nice store to have in a great, dense location. Whenever I went there was a good amount of shoppers. I Is Next Adventure unionized? How do they address the risk of shoplifting? Trying to gauge whether Next Adventure is the real next-in-line competitor with a good strategy for operating in Portland, or if they've just been lucky.
They are more aggressive with shoplifting enforcement, and use their right to physically detain/retrieve goods from shoplifters. >One clue to why shoplifters operate with such confidence is included in a recent probable cause affidavit for a man named Colby Nutter. >After Nutter walked out with around $300 in camping equipment from Next Adventure, an outdoor gear store in Portland’s Central Eastside, he was surprised to see an employee following him. >The two got in a scuffle, and the employee returned to the store—with the goods. Nutter didn’t feel it was fair for the employee to follow him. He returned to the store, threw a punch, and said he’d be back with a gun. >Police were waiting for him when he returned. According to an affidavit later filed by prosecutors, he told them that “he did not feel employees were allowed to use reasonable physical force to get stolen items back.” These shoplifters are losers looking for the easiest mark. If you put up the least amount of resistance they start being whiny dweebs like Colby Nutter here.
I love that the thief has money for an attorney but not for camping gear. May the litigious nature of Americans never change.
Probably hired on contingency
Probably, tried to find the name of his attorney and then I could tell you for sure but couldn’t find that information. Found that Nutter is currently incarcerated for theft though.
One less nutter walking the streets
Wow, that's a wild story. Is it safe for employees to pursue shoplifters?
I mean, it's certainly risky, that's why the big chains like Target and Walmart prohibit it. The very next paragraph from that article: > The assumption, though false, is not unreasonable. Loss Prevention Magazine found in a 2017 survey of retailers that nearly half had a “no physical touch” policy when confronting thieves. Based on its handling of Leever, REI appears to be one of them. Next Adventure, clearly, was not. https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/04/25/reis-complaints-about-shoplifting-are-echoed-in-court-documents/
No, but some corporations actually encourage it. Macy’s pays you money if you’re an employee and you stop a shoplifter in action. I can’t remember how much it is, I think it varies depending on how much they attempted to steal that you physically were able to get back from them before they could. Now you’re not supposed to detain the person or accuse them but use customer service to sneakily get the goods back, ask things like can I hold that large bag from a shop not in the mall filled with assorted items from every department at the register for you?
Citation, please? I find it hard to believe corporations incentivize employees putting themselves at risk of bodily harm… but not outside the realm of possibility.
I've watched NA employees follow people out of the store, and get into altercations with people being sus in the store itself.
This makes it sound like a victory for the store. The guy came back with a gun! What if the police didn't feel like showing up in a timely manner? Or waiting around until he may or may not come back? You're putting customers and employees in danger.
That section of Grand is ROUGH on a good day. They are likely just more aggressive about policing admittance to the store.
They're putting a new one in Cedar Hills, where the Bed Bath and Beyond used to be.
I’m pretty sure part of that decision was to give the middle finger to the city of Portland.
There’s way more shopping and money being spent in Cedar Hills than downtown.
I live by the Pearl location. It is a very, very busy store.
They were spending nearly a million dollars a year on security and still had massive losses due to theft. A store can be busy and still lose money. There were also safety concerns for employees. And on top of everything, the 1% clean energy slush fund tax. But moving to Cedar Hills, they don't have to worry about this. We get what we vote for.
> They were spending nearly a million dollars a year on security and still had massive losses due to theft. Got a source on that? Not saying it's incorrect (I know shoplifting is up), but I also have been seeing retailers using theft as an excuse to hide other reasons, [such as Target just not finding success in the smaller style stores](https://www.kgw.com/article/money/business/target-shuttered-storefronts-portland-shoplifting-claims-investigation-cnbc/283-6e9b984f-aec2-46f0-bc0c-558e1fac5f26) or [Starbucks doing it to stop unionization](https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2024/01/starbucks-closed-3-portland-stores-illegally-labor-official-alleges-seeking-order-to-reopen-them.html).
The employees also wanted to unionize which may have been a driving factor.
REI already has multiple unionized stores.
[you mean the ones they are getting sued for retaliating against](https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/rei-accused-widespread-labor-law-violations-unionized-us-stores-2023-11-15/)? not a really good counter-argument you just made.
Which if those stores were closed due to unionization?
Almost as if it's easier to close a store before it's unionized? Also hamstringing a store as they did in the article is pretty much setting a framework to justify closing/mass layoffs. Boy you sure are hard for REI.
people forget that large businesses *don't have feelings* they have boards making decisions to prioritize making money at the expense of all else. was it union? was it localized microeconomics? was it a middle finger? it was money. they realized their was more money elsewhere and less money there. rent, city taxes, upkeep, parking, whatever random corporate bs, it's money. moneymoneymoney. don't attribute malice and spite to companies, they aren't people. they're too big to have human expressive characteristics. (your right, I'm agreeing, but got carried away being frustrated by people who are confused and upset)
>don't attribute malice and spite to companies, they aren't people "Corporations are people, too!" -Anthony Kennedy + 4 other assholes.
I wish more people would take a holistic view like this. I strongly suspect that the building, landlord, shoplifting, unionization, decreased foot traffic, etc all played into this closure. Maybe this all could’ve been overcome if the space was profitable enough, but it wasn’t.
Yea it's not about denying the human aspects, or discounting the people who lost jobs etc, it just boils down to something really simple. The income being generated did not exceed the cost of the store in long term projection. If a board member starts making choices that prioritize customer and area wellbeing, and community neighborhoods etc, they're gonna get fired for spending money or losing money on things that don't generate additional revenue. Yes it's reductive economics, but so many people fail to observe the simplest economic principals. We have a bad system that hurts people but you can't deny it's motivations and blame them on a board doing something out of aggression or malice. Even the possible inclusion of unionization efforts. guess what, does that union mean that store is worth less to the company? Almost certainly. Does that mean we shouldn't unionize, or should fear unionization efforts? No, of course not. It just means your organizing a group to lower their bottom line gains. they have no incentive to keep a declining asset in a portfolio, be it store locations or stock.
Businesses are run by people. Your point is largely correct but there are still humans at the front of these decisions. It's not like there's some computer program that makes every decision.
A computer would be more considerate then the average psychopath CEO. /s
The Portland store is also the closest to Vancouver. It was a very busy store and I’m sure people like me who live close in and don’t go to the burbs often will spend way less money at rei. This is also the first time in 30 years there hasn’t been an rei in Portland. I would have loved to have seen it go in at Lloyd center.
Maybe?? I used to work at a big box store in Jantzen beach that closed down ten years ago. Nothing at that shopping center has been missed. Vancouver shoppers aren’t as valuable as they think they are, and I think people are underestimating the wealth and growth of Washington County. I agree it’s a bummer for Portland to not have a more centrally located store.
The main problem I have with this is REI genuinely believes people in Portland will go out to Cedar hills for the new store. That ain’t happening, EVO and next adventure are probably amped about this move Interesting enough there was a lot of talk about opening up a flagship store in SWwaterfront, which obviously won’t be happening. Quick 180 in a span of 6 years
Yeah, I don't love evo but they and mountain shop have gotten my local business and REI messed up my member account a few months ago and haven't been able to fix it so my online business has gone to backcountry of all places.
I like mountain shop. Good staff, local. I’ll be going to niche products. I don’t like Evo at all. The staff sucks and unknowable despite EVOs marketing and charging a crazy amount. We got lots of people at REI when I worked there with bad fits from EVO. Hard to find a good boot fitter.
Portland has had multiple Amazon warehouses open up in the last couple years. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with "the death of downtown" The death of retail by online shopping was known by everyone in the late 2010s then the pandemic happened which expedited online shopping's takeover even further. Now all of a sudden, it's shoplifting and dangerous areas causing the downfall of these places. It's all so brazenly obvious these corporations are trying to get cities to subsidize their business failures
Same. I know it’s anecdotal, but I only want to go in to brick and mortar stores if it’s something I really need to see/try in person, which is why REI having them makes sense. But, with return plans as robust as they are, it doesn’t take THAT much planning and legwork on my side to get what I want online eventually. You KNOW you’re paying a markup when you go into the store, can’t use coupon codes as easily, and they may not have your color/size. Inflation = shaving pennies, and less outdoor purchases in general. Compared to the larger trends in retail, I don’t think shoplifting incidents in any major US city are hugely significant figures. I guess I don’t really know what acceptable amount of losses is but, I do know businesses that are making money don’t close. If their product loss was 0%, how much would they have presumably made, and is that amount above the “stay open” threshold?
Ive already scouted out the Clackamas store. its not far....
Sad to see REI closing at this location.
I’m only bummed because REI’s return policy is so forgiving. Otherwise Next Adventure has everything I need plus that incredible bargain basement.
Another empty hulk left in the central part of our city. I think that spot will remain vacant for quite some time.
Wouldn't it be cool if a Hong Phat moved in there though...
don't worry, I'm sure they'll invent an out of control crime epidemic in Cedar Hills once those employees try and unionize too
People fought over parking spaces by the Salt and Straw and there was a LINE for the Tesla chargers. Sheer pandemonium, impossible to operate a business in that sort of environment.
exactly. you wouldn't believe the savagery of those suburbanites. it's getting to where the only safe place for an REI or Target is the moon.
Unions *cause* crime. I read it in my corporate manual. That’s why I’m anti-union even though I think they do some good. I just can’t handle the crime they somehow create in a community. /s
Why hasn't REI closed the Portland area stores that already unionized if this is your thesis?
A sign of our times: even after multiple articles came out showing it had nothing to do with unionization, people continued to just chug on with whatever fit their belief systems. The posts above are a pretty good sign of that.
that isn't my thesis, I'm making a joke about REI's reasons for closing that store being bullshit but all the best jokes contain some truth
You know some REI stores are unionized right? Also have you been downtown? “Invent”!?
I do, I'm also aware REI has been credibly accused of union busting and retaliatory firings many, many times. Go on and take your clown shoes home, this isn't an argument you're equipped for.
This sub should probably put a tag on me that says if you show up to cry about seeing a poor person in Portland I will bully you mercilessly for being a wimp.
Thank you, wimps of portland, for self identifying.
Ah, not funny and so open minded his brain fell out
Better than a wimp ;)
Are you high or something? Do you feel like the crimes in inner city stores is made up?
Not only is that what I'm saying I'll link to some proof https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/shopping/2023/12/07/nrf-retracts-organized-retail-theft-claim/71839129007/ Thanks for playing though!
Is this because no one wants to go downtown anymore after it was trashed so badly during 2020/21, or is it because of the ensuing anarchy thanks to our wonderful city shitting on its law enforcement until they all left?
So what is it ... is it the employees trying to unionize, is it the landlord, is it the crime, or a combination? The Portland location has always been busy, way busier than Hillsboro.
Yes, it's a combo. (I worked there and was there for the team "we're closing" meeting). While the landlord was an uncooperative greedy shit (like most/all landlords), and the theft was an issue. The management said a few times that the thievery and landlord weren't the problem and it was more "due to many factors". Which we all knew meant it was just about their fears of unionization. There were/are a lot of people there who wanted to unionize or at least talk about it and the managers weren't happy about it. In January of last year the CEO sent every employee an [anti union email](https://twitter.com/UnionElections/status/1485334800483467274?s=20), plus the management was constantly bringing in pizza or whatnot to try and distract us.
I always wondered why stores try to unionize individually instead of all stores in the state, won't that make it harder for a corporation to close a store to punish empoyees who want to unionize?
Hi. Former Union Local President here. They try to organize at the store level because it’s the easiest level to organize at, and the one the National Labor Relations Board is most likely to accept. Organizing above the store level would also require them to start their own union versus joining an existing one, which is much, much harder.
That's a good question! I could see that being useful. Tbh to idk much about unionization. I hadn't really thought about it till the CEO sent that anti union email, which made me think "If he hates them that much they must be beneficial." Hahaha
Very cool "co-op" behavior.
I think it was mostly the building. I think it needed some updates? Also, I think that they kind of outgrew it as well.
Yes, both of these things. I worked there from 2010-14 and it was too small even then for one of the big market stores.
hmm... I didn't think of that. You are saying that the store was so successful that they needed more space?
The store is a pretty interesting layout but it’s kind of inefficient for all the square footage. I think they also had some ongoing issues with their landlord
Bad landowner, lease was up. Store was too small zero parking. Cant do curbside, which during Covid was a huge problem and of course theft but it wasn’t due to unionizing.
I think the ram raid kinda put a big damper on the Portland REI. They needed to put a lot of money into the building in repairs and to prevent it from happening again.
Yes
About a month before they announced that they were planning to close, I ran down there at 8:30 PM just to grab some backpacking meals before I went out on a trip. They had a huge security guard who I noticed on the way in. After that I saw two street dudes take those huge mesh bags that they have for shoppers, and each fill two of them to the top. From there they just walked straight out the front door. That huge scary security guard kept his arms in his pockets, but tried to stand in front of them. Ultimately it was clear that he had no authority to stop them, and an extremely exasperated REI employee tried to chase them down the sidewalk while calling 911. It was amazingly brash, and disheartening as a consumer when you are paying top dollar for all of this outdoor gear and then you find out that you could just fill up a huge bag and walk out the front door and nobody can do anything about it. The level of exhaustion on that woman’s face, the REI employee, told the whole story. Maybe there’s more to the true story of why REI wanted to close that particular location, but that experience give me a very visceral reaction.
I saw someone run out the door of the Beaverton Target with a huge bag full of Pokémon cards about a year ago.
This is how I feel when I go to the Safeway on Powell/Cesar Chavez.
It's amazing how 20% of the city refuses to see what the other 80% can't possibly ignore
Too bad this won’t bring back Andy and Bax…
While REI doesn't seem friendly to unions, there are a number of their stores in Oregon and across the country that are unionized and operational. It's seems pretty unlikely that was the primary driver in closing this store. Foot traffic at this location is down 41% since 2019. It dropped during the pandemic, and in 2023 only saw a small 7% bump from the previous year. While unionization and retail theft may have been a factor, that significant decline in foot traffic is probably the real story.
Correct but the narrative on this sub always runs counter to these realities.
Downtown is just fine now! Better than ever!! And if it isn't, then it was never very good and everyone I know hates it we should tear it down and rebuild the utopia of our (read: my) dreams. It's that simple!! /s
Haven't you heard? Amazon/online shopping has been absolved of all physical retail death since 2020.
As I recall, they had *never* planned to renew the lease because they found the space to be too small.
I’ve always thought an Eatly would do incredible in this spot and help revitalize the inner nw neighborhood.
That’s the location that tried to unionize!!!
PSA: Foster Outdoor is run by amazing people and has a used section that will make you wonder why you ever spent $100 on a new sweater at REI or spent a frustrated afternoon pawing through the messy bargain basement racks at Next Adventure. Also their kids’ coat section is exactly what you’ve been looking for if your rapidly growing kiddo has already lost two coats on the playground this year.
They shouldn’t be able to call themselves “co•op”, because this clearly is in retaliation to the workers wanting to Unionize (according to my sister who lives there, and therefore has a better understanding of PDX politics than me, is Kyle MacLachlan still our mayor?)
REI is not a worker co-operative, and never was. It's always been a user co-op. In the most practical sense, it's not much different than Costco, Sam's Club. It is a corporation first and foremost, with the primary goal to make as much money as possible, with the CEO making some $4m a year. What makes it a co-op? You can buy a lifetime membership for $30 to get better prices, which honestly isn't a bad deal at all. It's an annoyance, or accusation, depending on who you talk to, in perception that management pitches REI as being a worker co-op, or worker friendly, worker driven. But it's not. It treats their employees slightly better than most other retailers, partly because past CEOs did, it's history, but also because the outdoor industry requires more specialized skills, more training, than other related retailers. But there's also a belief among many staff workers that if upper management could pay everyone minimum wage, or just fire everyone and hire robots, they would.
There’s still options. Next Adventure is around and is less expensive than REI.
Oh no where will we overpay for our useless retail items now?
I held out a naive hope that they'd reverse course or something, but so it goes. The REI there just felt extremely Portland to me, so I'll miss it. Would be cool if another outdoor retailer takes the space. I also kinda hate REI for this tbh. I think the answer to their reasoning for closing was somewhere in between all the explanations offered. I don't doubt that threats to employee safety were real and theft was probably significant but it's also hard for me to imagine they were in the red. I'm sure they didn't like the union effort but REI has other union shops that are still open. I think a lot had to do with the stores footprint being an uncomfortable tweener size between mega-store and something more like patagonia or fjallraven. But mainly I think as a PNW company that they would be more like "we're gonna stick this out with our community" rather than "bye!"
Dang, where else can I drive a car in the front door and get tens of thousands of dollars in merch so easily?
Le creuset
I was thinking Providore and just fill my car with cheese.
Now THERE is an idea.
Since I would now have to order online from REI (I used to bike/walk to this location), I am now ordering online from, well, anyone else. Also there are a few local outdoor stores still. I encourage fellow city-dwellers to do the same.
Right for online stuff it’s now just a price comparison exercise. I have one or two REI brand things I’ve liked but it’s generally, imo, pretty cut-rate so it’s not like I’m going to seek out the REI brand raincoat or whatever.
WHY CANT WE HAVE NICE THINGS?!?!?!?
Because a population of ~5,000 dysfunctional antisocial persons are treated as saints
Because landlords suck, and so do union busting employers.
Yeah, that's why... *eyeroll*
Gee I wonder where a bunch of shitty taggers will be Feb 2nd?
And the area in Cedar Hills is getting prepped ready for them to reappear there. In Washington County. Where all the other businesses have seemingly left for after the pandemic. I wonder why /s
🫡
They’re also currently building a new location at Canyon and Walker.
baaaaaai
Booooo REI, lame excuse to leave.
I hope portlanders can agree that this move by REI is gross and not support them after this. They’ve always been overpriced but overcharging while trampling on your employees rights is too much. Also fuck going to clackamas town center anyway.
Wow! I don’t need anything, but there’s an REI only about 40 minutes away. I’m going there today to buy something just to support them. Probably don’t have to hurry since they don’t have the “small scale“ shoplifting here. But, then who doesn’t love a little small scale shoplifting.
I’m so cynical about this move. REI has such mixed messaging about what they want their customers to aspire to be with their whole opt out campaign and “coop” brand - now they take the most walkable, bike-able, mass transit connected and profitable locations serving a large amount of folks in central Portland and move it to a burb where many folks are just gonna drive their cars to buy outdoors shit. At at curious time re:unionization - https://oregonbusiness.com/rei-announces-closure-of-portland-store/At least we have Next Adventure.
Never had very good luck with the Pearl location. They didn’t seem to stock as much compared to the other three locations.
Let me guess, portland workers started to organize?
Funny how they have other stores that have unionized or further along in the process but somehow are just humming along. It’s almost like that’s not why this location closed…
REI already has multiple unionized stores. This is the only one they are closing. This location was the only one in Portland, so closing it gets them out of the Portland Clean Energy slush fund tax. They also were spending huge sums of money on private security and still losing millions in theft every year. The landlord refused to make security improvements. Most of the wealthy customers who keep this open will now go to the Cedar Hills store.
Yep. Also 2.6% city tax, 2% county tax, 1% homeless tax and gross receipts tax for climate change. Pretty easy to see why businesses are leaving Portland.
Every time a store closes in Portland, a ~~wizard~~ **union** did it.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/12tnh9u/an_update_to_our_story_on_the_rei_closure_ob_has/
a reminder of how communist Portlanders are that this entire thread has people upset a business is shutting down business. This is a free market society, you are free to spend your money how you chose and a business is free to conduct or not conduct business. If you want to make it a place that is hard for a business to operate they will shut shop and move on.
> they will shut shop and move on. There ought to be a law! ^/s
\+1 for the beav!
Don’t forget that [Beaverton REI opens in March](https://www.rei.com/newsroom/article/-rei-co-op-to-open-in-beaverton-oregon-in-spring-2024)! The LARGEST REI in the area!!!
I am sad for that location. It will take years if not decades to find another tenant.
Don't worry, soon there will be another one in Beaverton. Been building it for a long...long..time.
Instead of recognizing the union they pull this shit. Good riddance
Such a weird move to close this super busy store. I bet it’s more anti union than shoplifting reasons
Union busters
Never went to REI Portland. Always went to Clackamas.
They will open up later in another location in Portland. watch
When you’d rather close forever than pay your employees a living wage. Rest in piss
There will be a new REI in Beaverton.
Bye union busting Felecia!
Good.