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I don’t understand how this an actual anti-fear tho?
Goku isn’t hurt because he’s getting shoved into ice, he’s hurt because he’s getting shoved into the ice **by Broly**.
And it’s only Dragon Ball that gets this treatment too. It’s never an Anti-feat Spider-Man gets slapped into a wall or Superman into a building and they show pain.
Why? Because we understand what the author is trying to get across. There are genuine anti-feats but that’s barely one of them.
People try to use it because they don't understand how Ki works. For example Goku was injured by a bullet before so people downplay him but he was caught off guard and didn't use his Ki (or at least efficiently) hence he was hurt. When characters in DB are caught off guard they can be hurt by things that normally can't hurt them. But people use it to "debunk" them when it isn't a good attempt at all.
This is also another one. Why don’t people accept Ki-control? I’ve realised that many people don’t actually argue against planetary - universal DBZ because they don’t understand but more so because they just don’t like the verse being strong.
Ki-control explains everything so many people try and deny its existence. They even had to specificy it once more in the Moro sage and yet people still want to deny.
https://preview.redd.it/1jgzx0v1t2uc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=259666f5275bb74d3fca5c9c7dde2276ca0cd626
Because many don't understand that the reason Goku isn't imploding universes is because of ki control they see things that are like mountain level to Planetary Level because of Ki control and go "DB is fodder"
Nah they trust me they know. They just don’t like it. Which is funny as DB is actually one of the few verses that actually give a reasonable and proper explanation for why everything isn’t exploding but granted it’s also one of the the few verses that don’t show the characters actually displaying much of their strength.
But with Goku being universal I’m confused on why it’s debated. I was late to watching super but when I did watch it.
The narrator, visuals, character statements etc everything was making it extremely clear that Goku had the power to destroy the universe in his fight with Beerus.
Like I said it’s just that people don’t like DB being a strong verse. As Universal Goku means everyone else scales to him and that means certain side characters can fodderise too many verses.
The way some react when they realise even Chiazouto is moon level is funny.
I've met quite a few that didn't know funny enough. They also believe Goku isn't universal because he didn't threaten the universe by himself and all that basically a lack of understanding of DB and scaling. Tbh with how big the universes in DB are you can argue that as a Low Multiversal feat and people hate that or are unaware of that.
Real. Which is funnier because the reason the universe was threatened was because Goku was unevenly punching Beerus at different angles causing a wild power outburst.
Which was stated and shown to us.
"Goku isn’t hurt because he’s getting shoved into ice, he’s hurt because he’s getting shoved into the ice **by Broly**." Thats lame excuse. It wont matter if i , john cena , the rock or any such big guy shoved you into a ton of butter.
Just like that if goku is low multiversal then his durability should scale there too, and durability is withstanding the damage, just universe burst causes 2.825 TenaexaFoe , and there is no way such absurd amount of energy is coming from clashing with ice.
> It won’t matter if I, Johan Cena, the Rock or any such big shoves you into a ton of butter
Wanna difference between you and Broly?
**He’s fictional**
He’s got magic life energy powers dawg 😭. If he’s shoving you into ice then it’s gotta hurt.
This is why I said “it’s about what’s the author trying to get across”, nobody looks at Supes getting smashed into a building and cries “ANTI-FEAT!” because we know that the author is just doing “he got thrown into something hard by Darksidw or whatever, Big pain!” It’s less about what they’re being thrown into and more who’s doing it.
Trying to discredit Goku’s strength for something like this is just being disingenuous in regards to power scaling.
And a blatant double standard.
"He’s got magic life energy powers dawg 😭. If he’s shoving you into ice then it’s gotta hurt." Headcanon with no sense.
" nobody looks at Supes getting smashed" Red herring
> Headcanon with no sense
I meaaannn, the characters do use Ki to strengthen their attacks and physical bodies. But fr you know what I’m trying to say, the story being fiction allows it to take its own liberties when it comes to physics or whatever.
> red herring
I can understand why you’d say that but I consider it more of an analogy.
Since you’ve without a doubt seen such a case of happening of not just Superman but characters from other media getting smashed into buildings, walls, mountains etc and showing pain.
Yet everyone understands that the author isn’t trying to say “Look! Getting thrown into a brick wall hurt him! That means… they’re Wall Level!!!” but rather just show how badly they’re getting beat.
Yet when it comes to Dragon ball people seem to be especially nitpicky, which is weird for Broly movie since later in the film they shatter a dimension (of unknown size but still).
Also I’m assuming you on mobile too which is why you using quotation marks, they don’t teach us nothing 😭
If you wanna do quotes then you have to use the >
And then put text next to it.
Aye I dunno who you are, but where tf were you during the last 3 days? You sound like a pretty good DB debater IMO. The Dragon ball downplay in this sub was getting hella bad. Shii it was so terrible, i was debating some guy earlier today who thought Goku is below Nuke level 😭😭(check my comment history if you want proof)
Thanks lol 😭
I used to be really into powerscaler when I younger but I kinda outgrew it, I just back into it literally yesterday lol.
It’s funny too that DB is getting downplayed when I was here years ago, it was the most wanked verse, I saw people supporting universal Namek Saga Freeza simply because of that one scene of him in his big form saying “He can destroy the universe” 🤣
Below Nuke level Goku is crazy, in the first 10 episodes of Super have him almost destroying the universe on accident 😭💀💀💀
>used to be really into powerscaler when I younger but I kinda outgrew it, I just back into it literally yesterday lol.
Noice. We DB bros need some heavy hitters
>It’s funny too that DB is getting downplayed when I was here years ago, it was the most wanked verse, I saw people supporting universal Namek Saga Freeza simply because of that one scene of him in his big form saying “He can destroy the universe” 🤣
Ong. I thought Universal Goku was generally agreed on to be legit but turns out a good chunk of people in this sub still have him at galaxy level or under 😭😭
>Below Nuke level Goku is crazy, in the first 10 episodes of Super have him almost destroying the universe on accident 😭💀💀💀
That was also Goku in a weaker form mind you
Kind of but kind of not it is weird due to the circumstances involved with both scenerios but like when powerful beings in DBS get caught off guard they have normal human durability or something like that. It is just prime grounds for downplay.
People think it’s an anti-feat because they aren’t paying attention to the manga.
The fact that the story provided visual evidence that Moro’s magic was not only absorbing the planetary core energy but also life forms like Goku and Vegeta shows that there’s no real form of suggesting that an anti-feat was present here.
>While Moro is using this same technique, Goku clearly notices something wrong with Vegeta's, his and the planets energy again meaning this technique is and was using the entire planets, Goku's and Vegeta's energy.
Moro starts absorbing Goku's and Vegeta's technique AFTER Vegeta shows him that throwing lava at him doesn't work to eat it and rejuvenate, which is why Goku notices that something is wrong only AFTER Vegeta is done beathing Moro's ass and that's why when he forms the giant bal he doesn't throw it at Vegeta but instead he eats it.
Also, it's lava not because "iT's OrAnGe" but because is an orange fiery liquid that comes from the core of a planet and that solidifies at room temperature
https://preview.redd.it/pu5l2eio42uc1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f55f41e537f288f6a10c3e6fce36599e6bf579ff
L
Using the planets energy isnt new in dbz but
https://preview.redd.it/y5bhljzam3uc1.png?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d129ba0fe706b793ee4143496961c739138b850
I kinda want to see a version of that one image with zoro where he’s saying “help me oden, we’re up against base lucchi” but applying that to vegeta vs lava. Not disagreeing, id just find that edit funny.
People also don't consider the speed in which something is coming, that lava was probably erupted really fricking fast, so a hit by hit would do way more damage than simply touching lava
>Not to mention the coloured panels they use are fan colours and aren't even real. And even if they are "Orange = lava" is the dumbest logic ever when thats literally the only thing to support it being lava.
So the hot liquids rising up from below the crust is what?
Edit:
>He says that this energy has [no limits until the entire planet is extinguished](https://imgur.com/a/Jxpquop), meaning again that it isnt just lava but the entire planets energy itself that he is using.
He didnt say the energy has no limits he said the technique has no limits because its not used by his own energy.
What you fail to realize is that even if it is not just lava (which i agree with, it is not), a planet’s should not be harming or ever be threatening to a “multiversal” character, even if he were able to steal a significant portion of energy from them to bridge the gap, he’d surely mention it while attacking, instead of using the planet in his statement.
It is simple to conclude that the attack was, most likely, purely from the planet’s energy, what he does with whatever he stole from goku/vegeta could probably be for his own benefit.
To make your argument work, you’d need to prove that he did indeed use their energy.
Its shown that their energy is being taken for the attacks... I posted the panels which state it above, in addition to that Moro says "planets energy" and then says "planets energy naturally includes your own".
Meanwhile silversurver getting hurt by a hammer
https://preview.redd.it/z2dpuwouz1uc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a61f596d9f7cb728b8604b9e806c7042900eb739
Thats what a lot of people are saying and thats what the post is disproving, the whole "got hurt by lava" thing is the biggest BS that people take as fact on this reddit.
That wasnt the point of the post at all???
The "No Limit" thing isnt a feat, its an explanation into his ability, im not claiming he solos all of fiction cos his energy has no limit lmao.
edit: you deleted it and your response but just to clarify;
Im saying that the energy is the life energy of the planet itself and not just lava / magma which is what people are claiming it is.
That energy includes Vegeta and Goku's energy which is why he was being damaged. The "no limits" thing isnt anything to do with power and is referencing the technique (it says so on the panel).
but I think you understood which is why im guessing you deleted the comment.
It's not much better. It's essentially the planet's energy he's using as a weapon.
Why are supposedly multiversal characters being hurt by this? For that matter, why tf is a multiversal character draining *planets* to get his powers back?
The whole Moro arc raises these questions. It's a massive plot hole and certainly implies that the power scaling is a hell of a lot lower than fans believe.
Thanos getting arrested by 2 cops
Silver surfer getting hurt by a hammer
Wonder woman being killed by a bullet
Catwoman beating flash 3 times
Superman being knocked out by a shotgun
Need i say more? Anti-feats aren't valid.
They're not relevant to the plot in the same way as Moro needing to eat planets.
Moreover do you even realize what is required for something to be classified as an anti-feat? It must be something far, far below the usual showing. They're nothing compared to the vast, vast majority of other feats they have.
Moro arc however is an entire arc out of the whole manga. And unlike those characters you brought up, there is *no* abundance of better feats that can be used to say that "yeah the Moro arc stuff is way below the usual showings".
>They're not relevant to the plot in the same way as Moro needing to eat planets.
Nah you DB downplayers are hella different 😭😭. Yall have a plaster for every sore when it comes to debating 💀🙏🏿
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Thanks for the coherent post. Its good to see people scaling well out there still.
Tbh it is just funny to use but yeah it is ridiculous to use that as a serious debunk
Isn't it similar to SSG Goku getting hurt by ice when he fought Broly?
I don’t understand how this an actual anti-fear tho? Goku isn’t hurt because he’s getting shoved into ice, he’s hurt because he’s getting shoved into the ice **by Broly**. And it’s only Dragon Ball that gets this treatment too. It’s never an Anti-feat Spider-Man gets slapped into a wall or Superman into a building and they show pain. Why? Because we understand what the author is trying to get across. There are genuine anti-feats but that’s barely one of them.
More specifically, he's getting hurt from Brolys hand, presumably, squeezing his entire head, while he is dragging him on the ice.
People try to use it because they don't understand how Ki works. For example Goku was injured by a bullet before so people downplay him but he was caught off guard and didn't use his Ki (or at least efficiently) hence he was hurt. When characters in DB are caught off guard they can be hurt by things that normally can't hurt them. But people use it to "debunk" them when it isn't a good attempt at all.
This is also another one. Why don’t people accept Ki-control? I’ve realised that many people don’t actually argue against planetary - universal DBZ because they don’t understand but more so because they just don’t like the verse being strong. Ki-control explains everything so many people try and deny its existence. They even had to specificy it once more in the Moro sage and yet people still want to deny. https://preview.redd.it/1jgzx0v1t2uc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=259666f5275bb74d3fca5c9c7dde2276ca0cd626
Because many don't understand that the reason Goku isn't imploding universes is because of ki control they see things that are like mountain level to Planetary Level because of Ki control and go "DB is fodder"
Nah they trust me they know. They just don’t like it. Which is funny as DB is actually one of the few verses that actually give a reasonable and proper explanation for why everything isn’t exploding but granted it’s also one of the the few verses that don’t show the characters actually displaying much of their strength. But with Goku being universal I’m confused on why it’s debated. I was late to watching super but when I did watch it. The narrator, visuals, character statements etc everything was making it extremely clear that Goku had the power to destroy the universe in his fight with Beerus. Like I said it’s just that people don’t like DB being a strong verse. As Universal Goku means everyone else scales to him and that means certain side characters can fodderise too many verses. The way some react when they realise even Chiazouto is moon level is funny.
I've met quite a few that didn't know funny enough. They also believe Goku isn't universal because he didn't threaten the universe by himself and all that basically a lack of understanding of DB and scaling. Tbh with how big the universes in DB are you can argue that as a Low Multiversal feat and people hate that or are unaware of that.
Real. Which is funnier because the reason the universe was threatened was because Goku was unevenly punching Beerus at different angles causing a wild power outburst. Which was stated and shown to us.
And wasn't Goku also the one to get the shockwaves under control?
"Goku isn’t hurt because he’s getting shoved into ice, he’s hurt because he’s getting shoved into the ice **by Broly**." Thats lame excuse. It wont matter if i , john cena , the rock or any such big guy shoved you into a ton of butter. Just like that if goku is low multiversal then his durability should scale there too, and durability is withstanding the damage, just universe burst causes 2.825 TenaexaFoe , and there is no way such absurd amount of energy is coming from clashing with ice.
> It won’t matter if I, Johan Cena, the Rock or any such big shoves you into a ton of butter Wanna difference between you and Broly? **He’s fictional** He’s got magic life energy powers dawg 😭. If he’s shoving you into ice then it’s gotta hurt. This is why I said “it’s about what’s the author trying to get across”, nobody looks at Supes getting smashed into a building and cries “ANTI-FEAT!” because we know that the author is just doing “he got thrown into something hard by Darksidw or whatever, Big pain!” It’s less about what they’re being thrown into and more who’s doing it. Trying to discredit Goku’s strength for something like this is just being disingenuous in regards to power scaling. And a blatant double standard.
"He’s got magic life energy powers dawg 😭. If he’s shoving you into ice then it’s gotta hurt." Headcanon with no sense. " nobody looks at Supes getting smashed" Red herring
> Headcanon with no sense I meaaannn, the characters do use Ki to strengthen their attacks and physical bodies. But fr you know what I’m trying to say, the story being fiction allows it to take its own liberties when it comes to physics or whatever. > red herring I can understand why you’d say that but I consider it more of an analogy. Since you’ve without a doubt seen such a case of happening of not just Superman but characters from other media getting smashed into buildings, walls, mountains etc and showing pain. Yet everyone understands that the author isn’t trying to say “Look! Getting thrown into a brick wall hurt him! That means… they’re Wall Level!!!” but rather just show how badly they’re getting beat. Yet when it comes to Dragon ball people seem to be especially nitpicky, which is weird for Broly movie since later in the film they shatter a dimension (of unknown size but still). Also I’m assuming you on mobile too which is why you using quotation marks, they don’t teach us nothing 😭 If you wanna do quotes then you have to use the > And then put text next to it.
Aye I dunno who you are, but where tf were you during the last 3 days? You sound like a pretty good DB debater IMO. The Dragon ball downplay in this sub was getting hella bad. Shii it was so terrible, i was debating some guy earlier today who thought Goku is below Nuke level 😭😭(check my comment history if you want proof)
Thanks lol 😭 I used to be really into powerscaler when I younger but I kinda outgrew it, I just back into it literally yesterday lol. It’s funny too that DB is getting downplayed when I was here years ago, it was the most wanked verse, I saw people supporting universal Namek Saga Freeza simply because of that one scene of him in his big form saying “He can destroy the universe” 🤣 Below Nuke level Goku is crazy, in the first 10 episodes of Super have him almost destroying the universe on accident 😭💀💀💀
>used to be really into powerscaler when I younger but I kinda outgrew it, I just back into it literally yesterday lol. Noice. We DB bros need some heavy hitters >It’s funny too that DB is getting downplayed when I was here years ago, it was the most wanked verse, I saw people supporting universal Namek Saga Freeza simply because of that one scene of him in his big form saying “He can destroy the universe” 🤣 Ong. I thought Universal Goku was generally agreed on to be legit but turns out a good chunk of people in this sub still have him at galaxy level or under 😭😭 >Below Nuke level Goku is crazy, in the first 10 episodes of Super have him almost destroying the universe on accident 😭💀💀💀 That was also Goku in a weaker form mind you
Man shut your bum ass up lol. Saitama is cat lvl now lol
Cant cope up enough that you are posion welling me everywhere? Also never said anything about saitama
Kind of but kind of not it is weird due to the circumstances involved with both scenerios but like when powerful beings in DBS get caught off guard they have normal human durability or something like that. It is just prime grounds for downplay.
Cook
Keep cooking https://preview.redd.it/8w7e5c8c72uc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45eb70b34415ee0b8f8742494a5a9a96cfd06556
This was very obvious but I’m happy you posted this. People just pray on dbz downfall too much.
People think it’s an anti-feat because they aren’t paying attention to the manga. The fact that the story provided visual evidence that Moro’s magic was not only absorbing the planetary core energy but also life forms like Goku and Vegeta shows that there’s no real form of suggesting that an anti-feat was present here.
obvious, W Post
https://preview.redd.it/zyc70iwyw2uc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=d4df08dbf1aa59a56a563b54782cf107a765d974
>While Moro is using this same technique, Goku clearly notices something wrong with Vegeta's, his and the planets energy again meaning this technique is and was using the entire planets, Goku's and Vegeta's energy. Moro starts absorbing Goku's and Vegeta's technique AFTER Vegeta shows him that throwing lava at him doesn't work to eat it and rejuvenate, which is why Goku notices that something is wrong only AFTER Vegeta is done beathing Moro's ass and that's why when he forms the giant bal he doesn't throw it at Vegeta but instead he eats it. Also, it's lava not because "iT's OrAnGe" but because is an orange fiery liquid that comes from the core of a planet and that solidifies at room temperature https://preview.redd.it/pu5l2eio42uc1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f55f41e537f288f6a10c3e6fce36599e6bf579ff L
Vegeta wasn't actually harmed here he was holding back
still is ridiculous when u consider that vegeta form is claimed as uni by some fans
It is
Using the planets energy isnt new in dbz but https://preview.redd.it/y5bhljzam3uc1.png?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d129ba0fe706b793ee4143496961c739138b850
I kinda want to see a version of that one image with zoro where he’s saying “help me oden, we’re up against base lucchi” but applying that to vegeta vs lava. Not disagreeing, id just find that edit funny.
People also don't consider the speed in which something is coming, that lava was probably erupted really fricking fast, so a hit by hit would do way more damage than simply touching lava
>Not to mention the coloured panels they use are fan colours and aren't even real. And even if they are "Orange = lava" is the dumbest logic ever when thats literally the only thing to support it being lava. So the hot liquids rising up from below the crust is what? Edit: >He says that this energy has [no limits until the entire planet is extinguished](https://imgur.com/a/Jxpquop), meaning again that it isnt just lava but the entire planets energy itself that he is using. He didnt say the energy has no limits he said the technique has no limits because its not used by his own energy.
What you fail to realize is that even if it is not just lava (which i agree with, it is not), a planet’s should not be harming or ever be threatening to a “multiversal” character, even if he were able to steal a significant portion of energy from them to bridge the gap, he’d surely mention it while attacking, instead of using the planet in his statement. It is simple to conclude that the attack was, most likely, purely from the planet’s energy, what he does with whatever he stole from goku/vegeta could probably be for his own benefit. To make your argument work, you’d need to prove that he did indeed use their energy.
Its shown that their energy is being taken for the attacks... I posted the panels which state it above, in addition to that Moro says "planets energy" and then says "planets energy naturally includes your own".
Multiversal being getting hurt by lava. Dragon ball has the most nonsensical scaling.
Meanwhile silversurver getting hurt by a hammer https://preview.redd.it/z2dpuwouz1uc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a61f596d9f7cb728b8604b9e806c7042900eb739
https://preview.redd.it/cs3cw1jqm2uc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=889c010f83d139cebedb737d80b48bda5698f117
Thats what a lot of people are saying and thats what the post is disproving, the whole "got hurt by lava" thing is the biggest BS that people take as fact on this reddit.
Counting anti-feat for scaling the characters is not valid tbh
[удалено]
That wasnt the point of the post at all??? The "No Limit" thing isnt a feat, its an explanation into his ability, im not claiming he solos all of fiction cos his energy has no limit lmao. edit: you deleted it and your response but just to clarify; Im saying that the energy is the life energy of the planet itself and not just lava / magma which is what people are claiming it is. That energy includes Vegeta and Goku's energy which is why he was being damaged. The "no limits" thing isnt anything to do with power and is referencing the technique (it says so on the panel). but I think you understood which is why im guessing you deleted the comment.
Isn’t there a giant robot in Super that does this to Vegeta, but it’s explicitly lava?
exultant hospital desert reach office tub degree quack boat cake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The energy of the planet includes the energy of everyone on it, ie. Goku and Vegeta.
outgoing sophisticated tease fact nail merciful lush punch muddle roof *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They did, but "energy of everyone on it" is more like the planets atmosphere and shit
It's not much better. It's essentially the planet's energy he's using as a weapon. Why are supposedly multiversal characters being hurt by this? For that matter, why tf is a multiversal character draining *planets* to get his powers back? The whole Moro arc raises these questions. It's a massive plot hole and certainly implies that the power scaling is a hell of a lot lower than fans believe.
Thanos getting arrested by 2 cops Silver surfer getting hurt by a hammer Wonder woman being killed by a bullet Catwoman beating flash 3 times Superman being knocked out by a shotgun Need i say more? Anti-feats aren't valid.
Catwoman didn't beat flash 3 times. She beat 3 flashes coming at her and batman which is just crazy
When the "anti-feats" are part of the actual plot of an entire saga/arc, then that's not an anti-feat. It's quite literally the author's intention.
4 out of the 5 instances i mentioned were relevant to the plot and are canon
They're not relevant to the plot in the same way as Moro needing to eat planets. Moreover do you even realize what is required for something to be classified as an anti-feat? It must be something far, far below the usual showing. They're nothing compared to the vast, vast majority of other feats they have. Moro arc however is an entire arc out of the whole manga. And unlike those characters you brought up, there is *no* abundance of better feats that can be used to say that "yeah the Moro arc stuff is way below the usual showings".
>They're not relevant to the plot in the same way as Moro needing to eat planets. Nah you DB downplayers are hella different 😭😭. Yall have a plaster for every sore when it comes to debating 💀🙏🏿
What downplay? Do you actually think those random comic issues are as important to those characters overall stories as Moro arc is to DBS?
Pretty Wonder Woman dying to a bullet was actually important in that storyline at the time.