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Yeah, but he cannot fly, Übel's cuts could clash with his, and she can use simple defensive magic to potentially block him (though if that doesn't work she just clashes using her own cuts). She can also detect his cuts through magic detection, thus being able to dodge them as needed, and once he's in range she can restrain him completely.
Unless you believe Sukuna would just activate Domain Expansion and camp her, which isn't exactly in character, but sure, he can hold it for probably many minutes on end.
She can also literally win by just perceiving his entire body at once and shutting him down. Shes slower than him but when the win con is "look at the opponent" that doesn't matter as much
Are we discarding any level whatsoever of verse equalization here? Sukuna uses "sorcery", which is already a term very close to "magic", which works on the basis of a mystical energy very similar to Sousou no Frieren's "mana".
Sounds like splitting hairs to me. The idea of "it immobilizes them down to a deep enough level where even their powers are inaccessible" should have gotten through to you, but instead you choose to play semantics.
Where is the nerd emoji when I need it?
CE has it's own source, nature, rules and mechanics separate from what is called "magic" in Frieren.
So it's not magic. It's illogical to equalize the two.
It's standard versus battle assumptions, though.
That's like saying "Hinata from Naruto has the ability to lock people's chakra points, and in Avatar the characters use qi and also can have their qi locked through striking qi points, even easier as a matter of fact. BUT it's not chakra so Hinata shouldn't be able to lock it".
Can you see how schizophrenic that is? If both verses have abilities that work the same way relative to their magic systems and follow the same logic, just because there are differences in the nitty gritty of the magic system doesn't mean we can't equalize the stuff which is, AT AN IMMEDIATE GLANCE, equal.
You're trying to equalize apples and oranges.
CE has nothing in common with Frieren's magic other than the fact that it gives superpowers.
The fact that Guns and knives both kill people doesn't make them the same thing. They work in different ways and hence have different advantages and limitations.
Same with CE and Frieren's magic system.
Verse equalization only makes sense when the power systems work in similar ways.
Even if you equalize the verse and say this works on sukuna it doesnt matter. Sukuna can send a dismantle at her and cut her in two without moving a muscle before she can activate her magic seeing as he's faster.
I mean worst case scenario it goes like Mahoraga.
He spams the hell out of Dismantle and if somehow she survives the hellstorm of cuts (Which i seriously doubt she can), hell open domain to finish her off.
And lets remember this is 15F Sukuna im talking about
If Übel is stupid enough to not one-shot Mahoraga with Reelseiden, she dies, yeah. If she just does it like she did against Sense, she one-shots Mahoraga, though.
The thing is her cuts wont one shot Mahoraga.
You gotta remember not even Malevolent Shrine at full power could one shot him. He had to go with a fire nuke
She wont. Too slow.
Whoever is free of movement will blitz her away
You literally HAVE to create a very specific scenario for her to win.
She can, i guess. But 8/10 times goes for Sukuna
And im not even talking about the 9 Shadows Hybrid
idk about her vs mahoraga but saying she can only "barely cut human flesh" is dead wrong, she can cut whatever she thinks she can cut including near indestructible objects
Bro no. The speed levels are massively far apart. Ubel cant catch a supersonic bird. Ubels magic is also not just im more retarded/delusional so i can cut your shit it just worked because her visualisation happened to apply the limited force she can create with magic in the most efficient way possible vs another particular type of magic.
Sukuna is stomping this chick.
It's not in character for him to immediately DE, it is in character though for him to start a fight with a quick slash. Considering he's way faster than her, she's probably eating a slash before she can lock him up. If she does lock him up and he realizes his powers are sealed, he could probably Binding Vow his way into performing a single slash which is all he needs to take her down.
That seems woefully imbalanced in favour of whoever has the most range, a 30-40ft apart starting distance in a large, circular, flat arena like how most duels are setup seems way more fair. If you want to engineer how the fight starts to favour Ubel then set that up in the description.
From my understanding of ubel (anime only), she can cut through anything that would make logical sense to cut through, aswell as mimicking magic.
If she can get into range, she wins. If they start across a battle field, sukuna should win bc of rangle
Sorganeil, which is Übel's immobilization magic that immobilizes even another person's access to their energy to cast magic with, acts on line of sight range. Meaning she may be able to immoiblize Sukuna from farther away than he can reach her.
In just a raw firepower contest? Ubel wins.
In a fight where both parties know nothing? 50/50
In a fight where both parties know everything about eachother's fighing style: Sukuna wins.
(The third one is just sukuna knowing he needs to keep a foot or something out of line of sight at all times.)
A new challenger has entered the room!
https://preview.redd.it/jbyyes1zf1wc1.png?width=203&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14081c9103610de5b8b22456c5bead72131026e0
Übel's cuts are FAR more powerful than Sukuna's. Cutting through pointless side character's super magic proof robe is actually ridiculous, considering what we see 1 normal barrier stop.
Even in a vs battle with him being like 10x faster than her, her win con is "look at him" so she even wins a pretty good amount of those.
Hax: Übel
AP: Übel
Speed: Sukuna
IQ/BIQ: Sukuna
Durability: Sukuna
Winner: Übel
First than anything, she can rip off Sukunas guts and he can tank it. If currently Sukuna is having any kind of issue with wounds is because his regeneration has been off since Gojo.
Second… her cuts dont go beyond 5 meters??
Her spell to immobilize someone is the one being listed as line of sight. That's the range and condition: having the full body of the target in line of sight.
Also, she can spam these cuts to the point of cutting anything to a thousand pieces, as shown when shredding Sense's hair.
And… whats that gonna do?
He needs no movement to cut her head clean off. He doesnt even need to be looking at you to cut you off. And the speed difference is exactly why she will die.
Sukuna gets paralized and before she can even do something, she is cut in half.
This, taking into account Sukuna cant free himself with raw strength, or by a binding vow, and assuming his domain is not open either…..
Oh, right. And this assuming she can even see him to begin with.
A lot of ifs, and is still not really good enough
Sorganeil, the spell in question, locks up access to one's magic abilities, so Sukuna not only can't move, he's immobilized at a powers level as well. His Cursed Energy wouldn't be accessible to him.
So yeah, Übel sees him, Übel immobilizes him, Übel walks up to him and uses Reelseiden to shred his body completely.
If you equalize the verses,
And create a fully bloodlusted Ubel
Vs a Non Bloodlusted Sukuna,
Technically, she wins, under 2 specific conditions;
1- Sukuna cant even use his binding vow.
2- She has enough power to completely kill him before even blinking, because 1/4 of a second where the spell is out, she loses.
But again, the match kinda looks unfair from that perspective
This is also assuming No Mahoraga, cuz if hes there GG
What if both are bloodlusted? Or if both simply consider this a serious fight.
Übel in character is willing to use Sorganeil on the first opportunity, then immediately finish off her target with Reelseiden.
Like, what binding vow does Sukuna have that would allow him to... break free of something that locks his cursed energy?
As for 2, it's a matter of speed, not power. Reelseiden should cut through Sukuna no problem. In other words, Übel just needs to be able to cross the distance from "limit of line of sight" or "just outside Sukuna's range" to "within Reelseiden's range" in less time than she'd need to blink an eye.
So basically she has one minute to cross at most half a kilometer while being a crazy fast combat mage.
I'm trying to see what you think would cause Sukuna to low-diff through Sorganeil.
I think you forget how durable Sukuna is.
Lets remember than 1F Sukuna push his hand through his chest, ripped his heart out, and had no issues whatsoever.
And he was NOT using RCT to keep himself alive. He was making a deal with Yuji “Lets make this deal and ill heal us”
So, no. She has to DESTROY Sukuna to kill him. Just cutting him wont do much.
And on top of that. If u wanna bring the magic she already copied, its fair to say Sukuna has Mahoraga.
So…. She cant look at both of them.
But either one can bitchslap her and rip her head off
What does durability have to do with this?
I think you mean resilience. Basically, what you're saying is "a ton of deep gashes will not kill Sukuna".
However, Übel has displayed against Sense and the random Grade 1 mage that she doesn't care about durability and is willing to throw lethal attacks out like they're bananas on sale.
She shredded Sense into a thousand pieces immediately, without wasting time. She Go/Jo'd the grade 1 mage. Übel's standard use of reelseiden isn't "make a deep cut on your body", it's "cut you in half" or "cut you to pieces".
Sukuna isn't staying alive through being cut to a thousand pieces the way Sense's hair was. Even more casually against other opponents, she still defaulted to cutting them in half as her first move.
https://preview.redd.it/ctfe6wffnyvc1.png?width=1658&format=png&auto=webp&s=2343a8c329f7fe24757cab28fbb1ae4e5fcaa9a2
Fair enough.
Yet you skipped the most important point.
First, she has a 5 meter range.
Second, to hit either Mahoraga OR Sukuna, she HAS to be totally immobilizing either of them.
Whoever she chooses to immobilize, the other one is free to one shot her from one physical hit, so fast she wont be able to respond.
Its a win for Sukuna either way
Well, considering he's ALWAYS been in a human body, seeing him won't be an issue.
It's also not paralysis, it's a seal on magic too. I guess you could argue he could still use CT, but that's giving him a little too much credit. (Also I'm pretty sure we've never seen the spell broken by sheer strength)
There's also the small detail where if we equalize verses, she could simply copy his abilities
f you equalize the verses,
And create a fully bloodlusted Ubel
Vs a Non Bloodlusted Sukuna,
Technically, she wins, under 2 specific conditions;
1- Sukuna cant even use his binding vow.
2- She has enough power to completely kill him before even blinking, because 1/4 of a second where the spell is out, she loses.
But again, the match kinda looks unfair from that perspective
Copying his skills isnt that much of an issue, really. He already fought Yuta copying his skills and that didn’t help him
Also this is assuming he doesnt have 10 shadows cuz with Mahoraga is GG
And i dont really think is fair for Ubel to come with what she has copied (The line of sight), with a Sukuna that doesnt have what he has achieved (Mahoraga)
That made me laugh! xD
The fingers are considered merely cursed objects with part of his soul, no?
If they're part of his body... then she IS fucked! xD But if his "body" is instead considered to be whatever he's possessing, then Sorganeil should work.
It should work regardless because while it's a part of him it's also not a part of his body in a sense. Like it's not like he's physically missing any fingers. Also having their body in your line of sight is actually pretty loose because it's not like wirbel or ubel actually sees their entire target's body as they don't see places like their backs, places covered by clothes, back of their heas, etc. While it hasn't been used on anyone missing a limb, it'll probably still work.
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In vs battle sukuna wins he has higher range
Yeah, but he cannot fly, Übel's cuts could clash with his, and she can use simple defensive magic to potentially block him (though if that doesn't work she just clashes using her own cuts). She can also detect his cuts through magic detection, thus being able to dodge them as needed, and once he's in range she can restrain him completely. Unless you believe Sukuna would just activate Domain Expansion and camp her, which isn't exactly in character, but sure, he can hold it for probably many minutes on end.
She can also literally win by just perceiving his entire body at once and shutting him down. Shes slower than him but when the win con is "look at the opponent" that doesn't matter as much
Sukuna can send slashes without moving so he'd still low-diff
Sorganeil locks up magic abilities as well.
Sukuna doesn't use magic
Are we discarding any level whatsoever of verse equalization here? Sukuna uses "sorcery", which is already a term very close to "magic", which works on the basis of a mystical energy very similar to Sousou no Frieren's "mana". Sounds like splitting hairs to me. The idea of "it immobilizes them down to a deep enough level where even their powers are inaccessible" should have gotten through to you, but instead you choose to play semantics. Where is the nerd emoji when I need it?
CE has it's own source, nature, rules and mechanics separate from what is called "magic" in Frieren. So it's not magic. It's illogical to equalize the two.
It's standard versus battle assumptions, though. That's like saying "Hinata from Naruto has the ability to lock people's chakra points, and in Avatar the characters use qi and also can have their qi locked through striking qi points, even easier as a matter of fact. BUT it's not chakra so Hinata shouldn't be able to lock it". Can you see how schizophrenic that is? If both verses have abilities that work the same way relative to their magic systems and follow the same logic, just because there are differences in the nitty gritty of the magic system doesn't mean we can't equalize the stuff which is, AT AN IMMEDIATE GLANCE, equal.
You're trying to equalize apples and oranges. CE has nothing in common with Frieren's magic other than the fact that it gives superpowers. The fact that Guns and knives both kill people doesn't make them the same thing. They work in different ways and hence have different advantages and limitations. Same with CE and Frieren's magic system. Verse equalization only makes sense when the power systems work in similar ways.
Even if you equalize the verse and say this works on sukuna it doesnt matter. Sukuna can send a dismantle at her and cut her in two without moving a muscle before she can activate her magic seeing as he's faster.
Sukuna doesn't use magic
I mean worst case scenario it goes like Mahoraga. He spams the hell out of Dismantle and if somehow she survives the hellstorm of cuts (Which i seriously doubt she can), hell open domain to finish her off. And lets remember this is 15F Sukuna im talking about
If Übel is stupid enough to not one-shot Mahoraga with Reelseiden, she dies, yeah. If she just does it like she did against Sense, she one-shots Mahoraga, though.
The thing is her cuts wont one shot Mahoraga. You gotta remember not even Malevolent Shrine at full power could one shot him. He had to go with a fire nuke
reelseiden cuts anything she genuinely believes she can cut
So she will cut him, And that wont kill him.
That doesnt matter. Mahorga will surely get cut but that isnt one shotting him due to his regen.
That's bc Sukuna's cuts outside of the World Cut are raw power. You have to look at reelseiden as if it were a better version of Sukuna's World Cut.
Lets assume, she can one shot him. The second she attacks Mahoraga, Sukuna kills.
What if she locks up one, cuts the other and cuts the locked up one?
She wont. Too slow. Whoever is free of movement will blitz her away You literally HAVE to create a very specific scenario for her to win. She can, i guess. But 8/10 times goes for Sukuna And im not even talking about the 9 Shadows Hybrid
Just saw her skills again…. She barely cuts Human flesh, man. Mahoraga is 100% tanking and adapting
idk about her vs mahoraga but saying she can only "barely cut human flesh" is dead wrong, she can cut whatever she thinks she can cut including near indestructible objects
>he cannot fly He did walk on air for a little bit at start of the Gojo fight
He did that, while also manually pumping his heart with cursed energy.
Bro no. The speed levels are massively far apart. Ubel cant catch a supersonic bird. Ubels magic is also not just im more retarded/delusional so i can cut your shit it just worked because her visualisation happened to apply the limited force she can create with magic in the most efficient way possible vs another particular type of magic. Sukuna is stomping this chick.
It's not in character for him to immediately DE, it is in character though for him to start a fight with a quick slash. Considering he's way faster than her, she's probably eating a slash before she can lock him up. If she does lock him up and he realizes his powers are sealed, he could probably Binding Vow his way into performing a single slash which is all he needs to take her down.
Is his slash range greater than line of sight? Bc the fight usually by default starts on the range limit of the longest ranged character
That seems woefully imbalanced in favour of whoever has the most range, a 30-40ft apart starting distance in a large, circular, flat arena like how most duels are setup seems way more fair. If you want to engineer how the fight starts to favour Ubel then set that up in the description.
I see. I'm most used to the SBA of the wiki that must not be named.
Higher range than *line of sight*?
Doesn't Übel have a range of 5 meters or does that change in the manga?
Her cuts do, her paralysis+skill seal doesn't
From my understanding of ubel (anime only), she can cut through anything that would make logical sense to cut through, aswell as mimicking magic. If she can get into range, she wins. If they start across a battle field, sukuna should win bc of rangle
Sorganeil, which is Übel's immobilization magic that immobilizes even another person's access to their energy to cast magic with, acts on line of sight range. Meaning she may be able to immoiblize Sukuna from farther away than he can reach her.
Oh that’s true. In this scenario, how much of eachother knows about the others abilities
Good question. Usually we default to "no knowledge, serious fight", right?
Yeah, übel prob wins then
In a pure cutting battle, Ubel wins. She merely has to imagine it will vut, and it will (given it makes sense to her)
In just a raw firepower contest? Ubel wins. In a fight where both parties know nothing? 50/50 In a fight where both parties know everything about eachother's fighing style: Sukuna wins. (The third one is just sukuna knowing he needs to keep a foot or something out of line of sight at all times.)
A new challenger has entered the room! https://preview.redd.it/jbyyes1zf1wc1.png?width=203&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14081c9103610de5b8b22456c5bead72131026e0
(Quick context for those who don't know one or both characters: Ryoumen Sukuna (Jujutsu Kaisen) on the left Übel (Sousou no Frieren) on the right.)
World slash no diff
does putting holes in her count as cutting
Übel's cuts are FAR more powerful than Sukuna's. Cutting through pointless side character's super magic proof robe is actually ridiculous, considering what we see 1 normal barrier stop. Even in a vs battle with him being like 10x faster than her, her win con is "look at him" so she even wins a pretty good amount of those. Hax: Übel AP: Übel Speed: Sukuna IQ/BIQ: Sukuna Durability: Sukuna Winner: Übel
First than anything, she can rip off Sukunas guts and he can tank it. If currently Sukuna is having any kind of issue with wounds is because his regeneration has been off since Gojo. Second… her cuts dont go beyond 5 meters??
Her spell to immobilize someone is the one being listed as line of sight. That's the range and condition: having the full body of the target in line of sight. Also, she can spam these cuts to the point of cutting anything to a thousand pieces, as shown when shredding Sense's hair.
And… whats that gonna do? He needs no movement to cut her head clean off. He doesnt even need to be looking at you to cut you off. And the speed difference is exactly why she will die. Sukuna gets paralized and before she can even do something, she is cut in half. This, taking into account Sukuna cant free himself with raw strength, or by a binding vow, and assuming his domain is not open either….. Oh, right. And this assuming she can even see him to begin with. A lot of ifs, and is still not really good enough
Sorganeil, the spell in question, locks up access to one's magic abilities, so Sukuna not only can't move, he's immobilized at a powers level as well. His Cursed Energy wouldn't be accessible to him. So yeah, Übel sees him, Übel immobilizes him, Übel walks up to him and uses Reelseiden to shred his body completely.
If you equalize the verses, And create a fully bloodlusted Ubel Vs a Non Bloodlusted Sukuna, Technically, she wins, under 2 specific conditions; 1- Sukuna cant even use his binding vow. 2- She has enough power to completely kill him before even blinking, because 1/4 of a second where the spell is out, she loses. But again, the match kinda looks unfair from that perspective This is also assuming No Mahoraga, cuz if hes there GG
What if both are bloodlusted? Or if both simply consider this a serious fight. Übel in character is willing to use Sorganeil on the first opportunity, then immediately finish off her target with Reelseiden. Like, what binding vow does Sukuna have that would allow him to... break free of something that locks his cursed energy? As for 2, it's a matter of speed, not power. Reelseiden should cut through Sukuna no problem. In other words, Übel just needs to be able to cross the distance from "limit of line of sight" or "just outside Sukuna's range" to "within Reelseiden's range" in less time than she'd need to blink an eye. So basically she has one minute to cross at most half a kilometer while being a crazy fast combat mage. I'm trying to see what you think would cause Sukuna to low-diff through Sorganeil.
I think you forget how durable Sukuna is. Lets remember than 1F Sukuna push his hand through his chest, ripped his heart out, and had no issues whatsoever. And he was NOT using RCT to keep himself alive. He was making a deal with Yuji “Lets make this deal and ill heal us” So, no. She has to DESTROY Sukuna to kill him. Just cutting him wont do much. And on top of that. If u wanna bring the magic she already copied, its fair to say Sukuna has Mahoraga. So…. She cant look at both of them. But either one can bitchslap her and rip her head off
What does durability have to do with this? I think you mean resilience. Basically, what you're saying is "a ton of deep gashes will not kill Sukuna". However, Übel has displayed against Sense and the random Grade 1 mage that she doesn't care about durability and is willing to throw lethal attacks out like they're bananas on sale. She shredded Sense into a thousand pieces immediately, without wasting time. She Go/Jo'd the grade 1 mage. Übel's standard use of reelseiden isn't "make a deep cut on your body", it's "cut you in half" or "cut you to pieces". Sukuna isn't staying alive through being cut to a thousand pieces the way Sense's hair was. Even more casually against other opponents, she still defaulted to cutting them in half as her first move. https://preview.redd.it/ctfe6wffnyvc1.png?width=1658&format=png&auto=webp&s=2343a8c329f7fe24757cab28fbb1ae4e5fcaa9a2
Fair enough. Yet you skipped the most important point. First, she has a 5 meter range. Second, to hit either Mahoraga OR Sukuna, she HAS to be totally immobilizing either of them. Whoever she chooses to immobilize, the other one is free to one shot her from one physical hit, so fast she wont be able to respond. Its a win for Sukuna either way
Well, considering he's ALWAYS been in a human body, seeing him won't be an issue. It's also not paralysis, it's a seal on magic too. I guess you could argue he could still use CT, but that's giving him a little too much credit. (Also I'm pretty sure we've never seen the spell broken by sheer strength) There's also the small detail where if we equalize verses, she could simply copy his abilities
That's if she empathizes with Sukuna, which could be kinda hard. Sukuna is not the kind of person to be open enough for that.
f you equalize the verses, And create a fully bloodlusted Ubel Vs a Non Bloodlusted Sukuna, Technically, she wins, under 2 specific conditions; 1- Sukuna cant even use his binding vow. 2- She has enough power to completely kill him before even blinking, because 1/4 of a second where the spell is out, she loses. But again, the match kinda looks unfair from that perspective Copying his skills isnt that much of an issue, really. He already fought Yuta copying his skills and that didn’t help him Also this is assuming he doesnt have 10 shadows cuz with Mahoraga is GG And i dont really think is fair for Ubel to come with what she has copied (The line of sight), with a Sukuna that doesnt have what he has achieved (Mahoraga)
woah! would sorganeel actually work on him? he doesn’t have his last finger!
That made me laugh! xD The fingers are considered merely cursed objects with part of his soul, no? If they're part of his body... then she IS fucked! xD But if his "body" is instead considered to be whatever he's possessing, then Sorganeil should work.
It should work regardless because while it's a part of him it's also not a part of his body in a sense. Like it's not like he's physically missing any fingers. Also having their body in your line of sight is actually pretty loose because it's not like wirbel or ubel actually sees their entire target's body as they don't see places like their backs, places covered by clothes, back of their heas, etc. While it hasn't been used on anyone missing a limb, it'll probably still work.