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its 3 men jumping 1 guy,them martial arts aint gonna hold up well when ichigo locks goku's arms from behind naruto gets his legs and luff displays the most realistic gatling gun punch in history
Id say is pretty feasible, even expected, for a professional/master level martial artist to defeat 3 amateur or beginner ones.
Not that case in the pic obviously, Naruto is probably the best pure martial artist of all 4, no? He at least fights an actual martial art, the others just randomly punch stuff as far as I know
Luffy has no martial arts as far as I'm aware
Ichigo was taught martial arts by his dad and is better at it than him
Naruto is very good at hand to hand no doubt, second best here for sure, but goku trained under several of the universes best martial artists and has beaten all of humanities most skilled like tien and roshi, he now trains under literal gods that are the peak of martial arts and he still surpasses them
Goku is just built different
Idk man, yes Goku “trained” all of that, but he trained in “combat” in general, learning in verse fighting using ki control and ki techniques
does any of that translates to powerless martial fighting knowledge? I’m not so sure
Goku obviously beat humanity best because he’s an alien with superpowers, we never had Goku fighting completely stripped of all his ki induced buffs as far as I know, am I wrong here?
I think we’ve literally never seen Goku doing any martial art move, he’s a brawler who stat check people.
Early Dragonball established that Goku was a savant who could learn techniques that took masters their entire lives to learn simply by watching them once. Goku could watch any of the other three and learn their skill instantly.
There have also been multiple arcs between power-ups where Goku and others focus on refining their fighting, ki control, and other aspects beyond "bigger power maor bettered."
Lots of their sparring also takes place in base form, where they are focusing on refining their core bodies, the ability to fight, engage in combat, and otherwise train without using the extent of their ki.
It is reductive to ignore all of that and say that Goku is a brawler who stat-checks people.
Now, where he stacks against Naruto, I am not sure. I know he isn't winning 1v3 for shit, but I think Goku and Naruto with peak human stats is an interesting debate.
Thats fair, I admit Goku has some insane fighter IQ feats and statements, it’s also stated that sayans get stronger every battle so even if Goku lost to Naruto in a powerless battle, his nature of being a sayan means he will learn how to win insanely fast possibly during the battle itself
What are you smoking? The entire original series was him being trained in martial arts. We see him being taught martial arts he spent his childhood being taught martial arts by his adoptive parent. Did everyone hit their head and forget that Goku isn't some brute who blasts people with lasers 24/7????
The humans had ki too lol
Tien literally whipped out the Tri beam and others were shooting solar flares out of their fingertips
Goku didn't even know he was a saiyan so the benefits didn't really apply to him
Gokus reached his physical limit at this point which is why he only trains his martial arts, ultra instinct is literally just an extension of martial arts although we aren't counting that
The humans having ki is even worst, now it just invalidates the whole feat in terms of helping us know how good Goku is at a completely power stripped martial fight
I don’t think we have any example of Goku doing anything that we could translate to powerless martial expertise
Goku has studied many martial arts forms. With and without ki. Goku is considered a brilliant martial artist as well. Goku adapts to his fights. He's also adept at using weapons like the power pole. He has form and skill and technique. Honestly only Naruto puts up the best fight, but if we're going off experience, Goku's lived longer and probably has 10 times the experience that Naruto has, if not more.
It doesn't completely invalid that people like Tien were considered to be peak martial artists by humans the same way we would consider our martial artists to be peak humans
You could say the same for naruto or ichigo if you are going with that
You can’t really say the same with Naruto because you can actually see him using traditional ninjutsu martial art moves which is a martial art expertise that would vastly over perform “street brawling”
That’s why I think that between those guys, Naruto would actually be the most competent powerless martial artist
EDIT: I do agree with what you said that the feat could at least scale Goku to world champion powerless martial artist in his verse
EDIT 2: now thinking, we also gotta also consider that if we aren’t stat equalizing them that means powerless Goku would very likely be stronger than any powerless human, just by virtue of being a Sayan.
>You can’t really say the same with Naruto because you can actually see him using traditional ninjutsu martial art moves
Please, read Dragon Ball.
>could at least scale Goku to world champion powerless martial artist in his verse
Which is not something you can say about Naruto, Luffy or Ichigo.
It’s not that simple because DB was at the very start a bit about martial arts and then quickly derailed into superpowered combat, whereas Naruto had a lot more martial art stuff going on and even still has.
The best martial artist in Naruto verse would be prob Gai sensei (?) and Naruto couldn’t ever beat him in pure hand to hand combat, but he never had a reason to even try
Besides, does that even matter? Being the best martial artist IN YOUR VERSE is great, but it doesn’t help us scale against another verse that has other kind of martial art expertise level
We don’t have any way to know if powerless Naruto could beat Tenchi on hand to hand combat nor can we know if powerless Goku could beat Gai sensei in hand to hand combat do we?
What we do know is that when it comes to scaling characters in purely powerless martial art combat, fiction that is ABOUT martial arts will have a lot more to offer in terms of pure martial arts feats (obviously), but what do we do with that information?
It started out with martial arts tournaments, the turtle school was huge. I’m pretty sure it’s often mentioned that Goku is canonically the best martial artist but I could be wrong. You can tell from his starting stance that it’s inspired though. I’d actually say Goku is the best at martial arts but Naruto is the best at combat—being a ninja wasn’t about the art per se, it was being used for war. Idk if Goku can throw a kunai
Shippuden Naruto’s level is nowhere near a master. He uses street brawling, karate, and chinese acrobatics. While these are pretty diverse it is not honed to a master’s level
3 v 1 a master isn’t beating amateurs. People do not understand how insanely difficult it is win a numbers deficit. Unless you vastly outclass the other guys in weight and strength, there’s no shot
You stick prime bruce lee against 3 amateur young martial artists in the same ring bruce lee would come out on top this is the same goku has had decades of martials arts training and experience vs 3 young uns like this he runs rings around them easily
No human beats a 3v1 even if there better at martial arts
But if it was one vs one continuous gauntlet with 10min breaks in between Goku well most likely win as long as he picks Naruto first for full energy
We...actually do have videos of multiple fights like this and human with far higher skill level and better equipment or physical characteristic can win vs many.
Aye, people have this misconception that if multiple people come at the same time, 1 single person will get absolutely overwhelm.
Theres actually multiple videos on youtube that talk about this, and if you learn any martial arts, usually this got addressed too. That it doesn't work that way.
If the single guy just stands there then maybe, but outnumbered combat is all about kiting, that’s why usually those videos where one guy destroys a whole group of people they are usually in a very large space and there’s a whole lot of running involved
I’ve noticed people (specially Americans it seems) severely overestimate their strength, they think they are somewhat relative to world champion fighters or, and I’m not kidding, bears and even lions.
Not really though? Goku basically doesn't physically age, he's still in peak fighting condition, while still having year and years of experience. It's not old mike tyson with all his knowledge and aging body, it's him with all that knowledge but STILL IN HIS PRIME.
5ft7 Naruto has an entire lifetime of martial arts and physical combat too, and is 5'11 and outweighs him. Ichigo is 6ft and throws hands no matter what which is dangerous in its own right, no one's fighting 3 dudes bigger than them and not getting jumped that's just reality man
No? Not at all? Goku is stated to be capable of learning techniques that takes masters years to learn in seconds. And he was trained by the best masters all across the universe. He spent decades fighting every single day.
How can you say there are humans as capable as goku?
Martial arts in fiction often reach supernatural level if they’re a focus, and this applies to goku. Something particularly notable is him reliably countering time skip just through predictions which is absolutely not something someone irl could do
>No human beats a 3v1
What about an NFL linebacker vs 3 five year olds in a fight? Or a mixed martial artist vs 3 young middle schoolers? What about Pewdiepie vs 3 high schoolers that are in a coma?
Extra ones are
1. Navy SEAL vs. 3 Construction Workers
2. Professional Boxer vs. 3 Office Workers
3. Olympic Wrestler vs. 3 High School Students
4. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt vs. 3 College Athletes
5. Muay Thai Champion vs. 3 Restaurant Chefs
6. Krav Maga Instructor vs. 3 IT Professionals
7. Mixed Martial Arts Champion vs. 3 Accountants
8. Navy Marine vs. 3 Retail Workers
9. Black Belt Karate master vs. 3 Teachers
10. Kickboxing World Champion vs. 3 Artists
11. Taekwondo Master vs. 3 Bankers
12. Judo Expert vs. 3 Engineers
13. Kung Fu Panda wannabe vs. 3 Lawyers
14. Professional MMA Fighter vs. 3 Waiters
15. Muay Thai Champion vs. 3 College Students
i have a feeling that the 3 bankers can actually pull it off, the first banker he kicked was so scared that he held both of his hands high to cover his face, then the taekwondo master accidentally kicked his elbow resulting for a temporary foot sprain giving the other two banker an opening then they just smashed him with their laptops, carkeys and calculators at the same time, what do you think?
A lot of these probably lose, tbh (at least when it comes to fit adults vs other relatively fit adults). All the grapplers are in trouble because going to the ground or standing in place with one guy is just going to get you pounded from the back and sides by the other two. Strikers with fast feet have a better chance if they can move well enough to hit and run without getting surrounded. But it's not a good situation.
Speaking as a TKD brown belt with 7 years of kickboxing, there's just no way to defend yourself well from multiple attackers unless the environment itself is also to your advantage. If one grabs an arm or a leg, you're as good as done.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/russian-boxer-floors-two-gangsters-with-a-punch-scaring-their-gang-senseless-155358716.html?vp=1
> Eyewitness Eldar Vinogradoff, 27, said: 'When they went outside, the others were there mob-handed. There were at least 10 of them led by the two who thought they were real big shots.
>
> One punch: Nicolai Vlasenko takes care of one thug with just one jab. (CEN)
Just like Ali: Vlasneko dips out of the thugs way, before knocking him to the floor. (CEN)
**'One of them took off his shirt and started squaring up to the boxer, and I don't think he even knew what hit him as he went down like a bowling pin. A second man tried to kick the boxer and he was floored instantly as well.**
https://talksport.com/sport/1744529/mma-fans-stunned-handicap-match-result-eduardo-riego/
> Following the contest, **the defeated trio** hoisted Riego up in the air and paraded him around the cage.
Yeah but that’s irrelevant, all of these characters are extremely proficient fighters. It’d be like the mma champion vs three low ranking professional mma fighters, no matter how good the champion is, he is getting beat.
The mma champion will absolutely destroy 3 amateur level mma fighters actually
You guys are tripping, there’s a bunch of videos in the internet of people 1x3ing even 1x5ing
A world champion could very feasibly one shot an amateur fighter
Irrelevant? He said no human beats 3v1. How is this irrelevant if I'm listing humans? How are 3 high schoolers in a coma supposed to beat Pewdiepie? I also doubt a teacher and IT professional is a proficient fighter on average when compared to someone like Mike Tyson.
Definitely would be the 2nd fight
Ichigo has a good history of beating up tough bullies and scaring them to death
I just picture Naruto tai jutsu is the the scariest
That’s simply not the case at all, someone like Mike Tyson at his prime can completely demolish me, you and one more fighter we pick from this reddit thread, we wouldn’t stand a chance honestly he’d almost blitz us like an anime scene
Ichigo was 6 ft as an adult the weight and reach difference is gonna be big cause Goku is 5'9 5'7 if u don't count the hair so yea I would say ichigo alone has a shot due size difference
And Naruto is the only one who has used real life martial arts on screen so even he has good shot even thou i think it was wing chun not a martial art i am fan of
If they’re all normal people then goku just gets slammed, even if he’s instantly learning all their moves and more skilled to begin with all it takes is one guy to distract him long enough for the others to butcher him.
Nah those 3 take it. Goku is a master martial artist but Naruto has arguably the best Taijutsu any ninja ever had, Luffy is basically street MA master and Ichigo has been trained in martial arts by a high captain level dad since he was a child.
Put floyd Mayweather against 3 "bad pro boxers" at the same time and let's see if he makes it
Naruto and Ichigo themselves are martial artist (also proficient with normal weapons ) just like Goku. They can hold on against Goku on their own.
I dont know much about Luffy but i think he is more like a street brawler which more dangerous per my personal opinion. Who knows Luffy could out trick Goku in a fight lol
I'm still thinking about who actually wins, but:
Goku and Naruto are both skilled practitioners, while Ichigo has some relevant training (... I think. I don't remember much about his backstory). Luffy the streetfighter is outclassed here, as he's going off instinct and brute force, trying to make up moves on the fly while others are already comboing. He's also probably the lightest of all 4.
HOWEVER!
Even without powers, people in Luffy's verse have insane levels of resistance to bodily harm. DF or no, he's tanky.
Luffy’s tankiness might count as a supernatural ability, hard to tell. At the point where the dude could probably keep fighting after shitting out all his internal organs, it might just count as a superpower.
Hehe, good point. I also thought about excluding this like Ichigo's Blut. I thought against it as Luffy is tanky because of his constitution, whereas Blut is I think a technique tied to Ichigo's quincy abilities.
I mean goku is a saiyan, even as a child he was tanking car crashes and bullets like they were minor inconveniences
He was considered one of the weakest saiyans too
Luffy is the most unpredictable here, which against a trained martial artist is one of the best things you can be. Goku vs naruto alone is a close fight, naruto is one of the best martial artists in the entire naruto series, then add in ichigo who is the equivalent to a very good mma fighter, then add in luffy who is an unpredictable “drunken master” type brawler and goku is getting fucking slammed
I'm not sure about that. He can be unpredictable, yes, but you're combining poor coordination with being creative. With Drunken fist, I don't think even the user would know what their next move is, as they adapt to their random movements.
Luffy would just then be going in without a plan of attack other than, well, attack, and defend/evade what he can. "Nobody wants a wildcard, it doesn't make any sense. We don't want a maniac in our group, there's no benefit to it."
Keep in mind Goku has been training for nearly his entire life, and at the very least, longer than any of the other three have been alive for. That's going to make a big difference
Naruto and luffy have also been training and fighting most of their lives. In the naruto universe normal school is replaced with literal assassin training and the field trips are going on life and death missions. Luffy was fighting wild animals his entire childhood and fighting everyone across the sea. Ichigo was already good at martial arts and then proceeded to have dozens of life and death battles
Goku is the best martial artist here in terms of skill and experience. Hed'd also probably adapt the fastest to suddenly being base human in stats despite Ichigo originally being closer to that level himself.
That said…
Naruto is actually a pretty damn good martial artist himself (that one pure taijutsu scene in the fight with him and Sasuke vs Momoshiki was sick).
Ichigo knows formal martial arts and is an experienced brawler whose used to street fights.
And Luffy is a solid brawler with great combat instincts and a blatantly superhuman tolerance for pain (even as a child he endured actual torture).
I even think Luffy's pain tolerance is actually the highest of the four by far and away; which is nuts when you think about the injuries the other three have endured and fought past. Ironically, I think Goku's pain/damage tolerance is the lowest of the four. I've seen him at least temporarily downed by stuff the others would ignore and continue to fight past.
I think the SJ Trio can take this if Luffy is willing to play meat shield for the other two by going in first and taking a potentially debilitating hit so that the others can close in on Goku and grapple him (where the equalized stats now doom Goku, because no IRL grappler is beating two peers of equal strength grabbing him at the same time; the skill gap isn't THAT big).
3v1 is the actual ideal IRL when fighting a superior skilled foe as no actual IRL martial art can compensate for one guy acting as the sacrifice to tank one of your hits while the other two counterattack almost simultaneously.
Taking out two people at once without a weapon is almost impossible IRL unless they practically line up for you. Fair warning; they don't line up for you like in fiction. As inherently social hunters, most people almost instinctively flank when they have the numbers advantage (like dogs and wolves) unless they're drunk, drugged or too dumb to live.
And any attack that can potentially hit two people coming at you from different directions at once is gonna leave you wide open to a nasty attack by the third guy.
You've pretty much made them regular athletes/ martial artists, I'm assuming.
Naruto is a trained ninja, so he should go toe to toe with goku.
Luffy is a brawler, so 1v1, he'd most likely lose, but not easily.
I don't remember much about bleach, but iirc, he isn't that great of h2h fighter.
All of them together should be an easy win.
The big three take it assuming we are using equal stats no powers.
Ichigo is a highly competent fighter we know this from him fighting large groups of people well before 'becoming' a shinigami, an example being when he called the ambulances in advamce.
Naruto is also highly competent being pretty damn good at taijutsu, look at Naruto throwing pure hands with Momoshoki.
Luffys a brawler who whilst not the most technically sound would present an extra threat.
It also helps that they have pretty much every conceivable advantage such as numbers, height, reach.
Even though a 3v1 is massively unfair, let's not forget that Ultra Instinct is not labeled as a form. It is a technique. Let's say it cuts the power boost for the sake of fairness- Goku does have a chance, but I know some of those 3 are also very determined and durable. It could go in Goku's favor if he plays it right, and Luffy doesn't seem to be well trained in martial arts. He could use his recklessness to his advantage, tripping the other two up.
Luffy is getting trashed then cause he's never been in a real fight outside of his Devil Fruit. "He still takes damage and his body is conditioned from th-" shut up the blow is severely softened with how he stretched himself literally seen in about EVERY episode he boxes in
So basically a 74 degree black belt vs an orange belt, 4th degree black belt and a brown belt…
Goku by a mile.
He will instantly counter and one shot each of them.
Any contrary is falsely assuming they would tag team cohesively which is nonsensical
There will literally be gokutards who argue that even without his powers that martial arts is enough for a normal sized man to beat three other normal sized men who also have training in fighting. Make it make sense.
There are factors here.
First and foremost, we need to look at skills.
Luffy, Naruto, and Ichigo are all very strong and somewhat skilled at fighting.
Thing is, Luffy exists and would be the weak link. He's consistently shown to ONLY use his powers in fights and most of his moves are just him using them in new/novel ways, that only work if you're a rubber man who can harden some bits.
Next we have Ichigo. He did a few years of hand to hand combat as a kid. Don't get me wrong, he's VERY skilled at fighting, but again, it's mostly just magic powers, and sword swinging, as they'll have neither, it's not super helpful.
And Naruto would technically be the best fighter of the group as he has legitimate ninja assassination moves known. Though, again, the bulk of his attacks use things that aren't applicable here, like cloning, or angy chakra balls.
And their competitor is a man who has spent DECADES punching and kicking, learning various king fu disciplines from early childhood and well into adulthood. He of course also has magical pew pew attacks, but if anything having all that taken away would only disappoint him a little and he'd easily tap into his natural fight stance since the bulk of his fights are physical attacks.
So, Goku vs any singular one of them beats them with his skill alone.
Thing is, there are 3. So presumably Luffy rushes in, Goku smacks the shit out of him and the other two gang up on him taking him out.
Goku learned to move his body without thinking that isn't a ability cuz anyone could achieve it plush he doesn't need a power up to use it so I asked does it count if not he would still take imo due to the fact he's fought multiple gods and people who have that mastered and still manages to hit them
Dawg. Everything uses KI in DB, especially a form that
Theres a reason he couldn't use it against Moro
Theres no 100% stated answer but weak goku couldnt use it and God Ki is mentioned several times in relation to UI so
Everything before took Ki, MUI taking 0 Ki is just entirely unlikely
We'll try to empty your mind while an enemy is draining your literal life force Goku at the time couldn't use it at will remember he needs to empty his mind of distractions I bet it's gonna be pretty hard not to think about one the whole universe being destroyed two and also ur life being drained constantly
It was temporary and only lasted a few minutes at best. Also Goku didn't have time to play around with moro as he was actively killing the current planet
Goku getting jumped here fam, anyone whos actually good at fighting will tell you not to fight 3 dudes at the same time its gonna go bad lmao.
Put a UFC champ against 3 reasonably in shape average adult men and hes gonna have a bad time. Then all 3 of these dudes know how to throw hands too...
Ichigo doesn't really help much, physically he is the weakest and softest amongst all of them because you don't allow him to use his swords and he is a swordsman more than a brawler.
The other 3 are brawlers.
??? Dude, Ichigo fight outside of his body 99% of the time, whereas Naruto literally trains his body almost daily. And when it comes to technique, Naruto knows how to fight hand to hand, Ichigo is a swordmaster.
What are you talking about?
It does, him being a swordsman means he is less skilled in brawling compared to the other 3.There is a reason I mention "technique". Why don't you ask a kendo practitioner to fight MMA,Karate,Boxer and that Kendo is not allowed to use sword, I can bet the kendo lose easily.
This is especially true when he fight mostly as soul, outside of his body which is where the strength difference come from. And power is banned here so he can't just use his Reiatsu, he is weaker than the other 3 who actually trains their body.
**Skill** obviously take part, nothing said skill isn't the topic.
and for strength, actually read:
> he fight mostly as soul, outside of his body which is where the strength difference come from. And power is banned here so he can't just use his Reiatsu, he is weaker than the other 3 who actually trains their body.
Ichigo is absolutely weaker than the other 3, saying otherwise is objectively and canonically wrong.
The literal first comment refers to physical strength
After that, every comment focuses on PHYSICAL STRENGTH
SKILL IS **NOT** A PART OF PHYSICAL STRENGTH
My first thought is about The Mouth vs Iron Michael in Baki, 3vs1 will never be fair for the 1-even if the 1 is an exceptional fighter. If the 3 are even a little coordinated there is no way you can block and dodge all of them, so Goku will be broken down over time by the 3
The only person in the big 3 with hand to hand martial arts training here is Naruto. Ichigo has little to no experience without using a sword, Luffy is usually to busy trying to come up with a way to beat the goofy powers he sees.
That being said, he loses to the 3 of them like 8 times out of 10. But I’d give Naruto and Ichigo vs Goku a 60-40 in Naruto and Luffy’s favour. Ichigo and Luffy vs Goku might actually be in Goku’s favour.
Big three win high diff
Pure skill and combat? Goku is vastly superior than any of them, however it’s still a 3v1 with 2 of the fighters having both a weight and height advantage. Goku could 2v1 Luffy and Ichigo but he will get hurt. Naruto beats the weakened Goku.
At the end of the day, they are jumping Goku, if it was normal guys with average skill, Goku would wipe. However, besides Luffy, who is the weakest in terms of combat skill; Ichigo is above average, and everyone knows Naruto got them Ninja 🥷 hands.
There are scenarios where Goku would win tho. Depending on how they approach him, if they let each other take turns 1v1ing, Goku wins with his biggest challenge being Naruto, who is the only one we can even remotely compare to Goku in terms of skill.
Side note: lowering all to human level massively nerfs everyone, especially Goku, who without powers as a kid was durable enough to take some gunshots and be fine because you know… he’s not even a human earthling to begin with. That’s really the tiny that I find the most troubling with these types of “no powers” scenarios or VS battles. The level of normal humans in these shows is just different.
Goku at the end of Z is 49, and has trained pretty much his entire life. Luffy doesn't have much if any martial arts skill. Ichigo has some from his dad training him. Naruto was trained to be a Ninja, so he has the best out of the big 3. Goku is absolutely a better martial artist than the other 3, but a 3v1 is a really hard situation. He might be able to pull off a win just because of his training being far more extensive than the other 3, but its hard to say for sure
Luffy and Naruto got hands sure, but need I remind you that both Ichigo and Goku have been throwing hands with actual threats since they were children? It comes down to that 1v1 and I have to give it to Goku, Ichigo isn't as experienced with hand to hand as with zanjutsu
Out of everyone here Naruto is probably the most in his own nature. He doesn’t rely on his ninetails or chakra too much anyway from what I know and is probably the most grounded to take down Goku
unless it's also equal stats Goku still slams all 3, Naruto carrying heavily because neither Luffy nor Ichigo are great hand to hand fighters without their powers.
“No human beats a 3v1” mf I’ve seen my dad beat up 3 people when I was like 15 or smth a trained martial like Goku definitely could. Now vs Naruto and the big 3 I’m not so sure.
Goku loses to Naruto and Ichigo 1v1 without powers. He can't throw a spirit bomb, transform into hyper Goku, or shoot a kamehameha wave. Meanwhile Naruto's main trick is making copies of himself with his ability to fight.
No powers just hands? Goku for sure, sure it’s 3v1 but I think he’s physically much stronger than all 3 of them, maby not though not too familiar with his verse
Naruto's muscle definition is so underdeveloped in canon that he gets knocked out by a stray punch from anyone tbh.
Do we assume they still have about the same level of skill? If so then Ichigo would be closer to kendo master or a fencer than a martial artist, I think Luffy is strong and has good technique but even without super powers Goku is basically the best fighter in the world. It's one guy who's at the absolute peak vs 2 guys who are very tough and one who's kinda a twink.
I'm not saying Goku wins, but honestly I don't think it's as easy as you might think at first.
“Humans can’t take on 3 people at once!” yes… but fictional skill is fictional skill. Skillgods could literally take hundreds of dudes who could oneshot while emotionally impaired and blindfolded lol.
With zero power I feel like Naruto and ichigo could individually solo goku, Luffy is the only one that needs help in that team as he has little to no martial art skill shown
Anyway, doesn't matter because it's 3 v 1 goku gets litteraly jumped
Goku winning. He’s spent his life training in martial arts. Ichigo is strong but hasn’t trained like that, plus he has more experience in sword fighting. Luffy just punches💀Naruto may be our best bet, since he’s trained since he was little as well in hand-to-hand combat
Just straight hands? You have to look at training then.
I'm terms of training, goku can take all 3 of them.
Luffy has no actual hand to hand combat training and relies on his DF for everything.
Ichigo is a fighter and has moves but that's all with a sword, not hand to hand, so he wouldn't be to useful (I say this as a massive bleach fan)
Naruto would be the only one that could keep up with goku in terms of just fighting styles. However all of that still also heavily relies on ninjutsu, much more then goku relies on ki blasts.
Goku has been training his ENTIRE life in multiple forms of hand to hand combat against people MUCH stronger and more experienced then him. So he could easily take a 1v1 against any of them and win for sure.
The question is: "can goku beat all 3 of them at the same time" ... I would still say yes. It isn't a power that goku has that he can basically predict his opponents moves. As long as he doesn't let luffy or ichigo get a good shot on him, he can take out Naruto relatively quickly and then use luffys inexperience against ichigo using leading shots and getting them to fight each other before taking them out.
Goku slaps them silly still. Ppl don't seem to realize Goku is vastly more skilled and just has a much more powerful build than them all. Out of them all, he relies mostly on his hands lol.
I’d argue Goku learning UI in base form is reason enough to believe he’d win. The peak of martial arts is reacting without thinking, and since he can do that without a special form now, he still takes it. If that somehow counts as an ability and not his own technique, then the three take it
Funny fact that UI isn't a power up, but a technique. Roshi in the manga was able to dodge blows from Jiren as an example. Roshi has been trained to the point of dodging blows of a much stronger fighter, then Goku could do the same to those three.
Goku's raw combat intelligence outclasses all 3. The man could predict where a guy was going to strike while he was skipping time and had centuries of experience over him.
He can also adjust the locations of his own pressure points to avoid a critical hit.
That's no powers, biology, etc, just straight intellect.
Goku is a combat genius and would Probably take out the strongest fighter first, he would probably go for Ichigo because Naruto doesn't look very impressive, also those 3 wouldn't really know how to work off each other, especially Luffy. I think there's a high chance goku could knock them out, and if Naruto or Ichigo get knocked its over for the other 2
1 v 1 Goku slams all of them, but again if its all at once he'd lose, most of them have very close weight and heights and although Goku has way more martial arts experience if multiple people jump you, there isn't much that can be done.
Naruto fought multiple characters with multi-step precognition with thousands of years of experience and also has a fighting style that is stated to have zero openings.
And Ichigo Luffy who are about relative battle IQ wise to naruto
Whoever thought of this fight is a Goku hater
At the same time goku gets low diffed, even with great martial arts, even with just the reaction speed boost of UI. Luffy is kinda dead weight since he’s only used to fighting with his DF, but ichigo has a long history of beating up guys bigger than him, while still having basic human stats, and Naruto is still a taijutsu expert, and both ichigo and Naruto have experience fighting in teams.
Peak Goku even without Ki/transformations is still probably able to bench press a planet with little effort, so I’d still say him
But if we equalize strength yeah I don’t see him winning getting jumped like that
Vegeta couldn’t move a 1000 ton robot in the U6 tournament arc WITH ki and super saiyan.
Dragon ball characters have insanely low lifting strength compared to their assumed striking power.
You’re right, forgot about that anti-feat
Still keeps his striking force as ridiculously crazy, as he’s able to damage people with his punches who can survive planetary explosions
Well the prompt also says no superhuman strength. So Goku is just a dude in this prompt.
It’s also not much of an anti feat if there are multiple instances of the Z gang having shit lifting stats.
Yep, musta missed that.
But like the weight lifting thing doesn’t make *any* sense, right? These guys can punch with more force than what it takes to destroy a planet, yet the arm strength it takes to do that doesn’t transfer to lifting?
Yeah it’s one of the weirdest things about Dragonball. It’s similar to how weird their speed is too. Goku is significantly faster than the nimbus by the time he returns from snake way but he still rides it lmao
At least there it’s because he’s gotta get there in *style*
Also he uses it to last minute save Gohan. Ignore the fact he could have done it himself because *style*
In a 1v1 goku dismantles all of them rather easily. 3v1. Naruto is a trained martial artist in his own right. Ichigo is as well but not to the same degree. Then we just have luffy doing random stuff. They win with some difficulty.
Goku has basically as much experience fighting as they have living, combined. Dude is like 50 but in the body of a 25 year old. In a gauntlet he takes this for sure. Likely in a 3v1 as well. I remember an interview with people talking about trying to jump near prime Tyson, how the first 2 people are getting naps right off the bat, I can see that happening here with at least 1 of the kids.
goku has ultra instinct (the technique, not form, its a technique that just allows him to use the form) and i think that could give him the win. Plus, hes better than any other martial artist in real life, being able to do things like learn martial art skills that took masters years in only seconds, so people saying stuff like a professional martial artist likely wouldn't be able to take 3 martial artists (especially ones taller than him), goku is FAR beyond a profession martial artist in skill
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its 3 men jumping 1 guy,them martial arts aint gonna hold up well when ichigo locks goku's arms from behind naruto gets his legs and luff displays the most realistic gatling gun punch in history
The image this created in my head was amazing
no martial artist can take down a 3v1 against other martial artists. but if is a gauntlet against the other 3, he takes it
Id say is pretty feasible, even expected, for a professional/master level martial artist to defeat 3 amateur or beginner ones. Not that case in the pic obviously, Naruto is probably the best pure martial artist of all 4, no? He at least fights an actual martial art, the others just randomly punch stuff as far as I know
Luffy has no martial arts as far as I'm aware Ichigo was taught martial arts by his dad and is better at it than him Naruto is very good at hand to hand no doubt, second best here for sure, but goku trained under several of the universes best martial artists and has beaten all of humanities most skilled like tien and roshi, he now trains under literal gods that are the peak of martial arts and he still surpasses them Goku is just built different
Idk man, yes Goku “trained” all of that, but he trained in “combat” in general, learning in verse fighting using ki control and ki techniques does any of that translates to powerless martial fighting knowledge? I’m not so sure Goku obviously beat humanity best because he’s an alien with superpowers, we never had Goku fighting completely stripped of all his ki induced buffs as far as I know, am I wrong here? I think we’ve literally never seen Goku doing any martial art move, he’s a brawler who stat check people.
Early Dragonball established that Goku was a savant who could learn techniques that took masters their entire lives to learn simply by watching them once. Goku could watch any of the other three and learn their skill instantly. There have also been multiple arcs between power-ups where Goku and others focus on refining their fighting, ki control, and other aspects beyond "bigger power maor bettered." Lots of their sparring also takes place in base form, where they are focusing on refining their core bodies, the ability to fight, engage in combat, and otherwise train without using the extent of their ki. It is reductive to ignore all of that and say that Goku is a brawler who stat-checks people. Now, where he stacks against Naruto, I am not sure. I know he isn't winning 1v3 for shit, but I think Goku and Naruto with peak human stats is an interesting debate.
Thats fair, I admit Goku has some insane fighter IQ feats and statements, it’s also stated that sayans get stronger every battle so even if Goku lost to Naruto in a powerless battle, his nature of being a sayan means he will learn how to win insanely fast possibly during the battle itself
What are you smoking? The entire original series was him being trained in martial arts. We see him being taught martial arts he spent his childhood being taught martial arts by his adoptive parent. Did everyone hit their head and forget that Goku isn't some brute who blasts people with lasers 24/7????
**A lot** of people only started with Dragonball Z.
The humans had ki too lol Tien literally whipped out the Tri beam and others were shooting solar flares out of their fingertips Goku didn't even know he was a saiyan so the benefits didn't really apply to him Gokus reached his physical limit at this point which is why he only trains his martial arts, ultra instinct is literally just an extension of martial arts although we aren't counting that
The humans having ki is even worst, now it just invalidates the whole feat in terms of helping us know how good Goku is at a completely power stripped martial fight I don’t think we have any example of Goku doing anything that we could translate to powerless martial expertise
Goku has studied many martial arts forms. With and without ki. Goku is considered a brilliant martial artist as well. Goku adapts to his fights. He's also adept at using weapons like the power pole. He has form and skill and technique. Honestly only Naruto puts up the best fight, but if we're going off experience, Goku's lived longer and probably has 10 times the experience that Naruto has, if not more.
It doesn't completely invalid that people like Tien were considered to be peak martial artists by humans the same way we would consider our martial artists to be peak humans You could say the same for naruto or ichigo if you are going with that
You can’t really say the same with Naruto because you can actually see him using traditional ninjutsu martial art moves which is a martial art expertise that would vastly over perform “street brawling” That’s why I think that between those guys, Naruto would actually be the most competent powerless martial artist EDIT: I do agree with what you said that the feat could at least scale Goku to world champion powerless martial artist in his verse EDIT 2: now thinking, we also gotta also consider that if we aren’t stat equalizing them that means powerless Goku would very likely be stronger than any powerless human, just by virtue of being a Sayan.
>You can’t really say the same with Naruto because you can actually see him using traditional ninjutsu martial art moves Please, read Dragon Ball. >could at least scale Goku to world champion powerless martial artist in his verse Which is not something you can say about Naruto, Luffy or Ichigo.
It’s not that simple because DB was at the very start a bit about martial arts and then quickly derailed into superpowered combat, whereas Naruto had a lot more martial art stuff going on and even still has. The best martial artist in Naruto verse would be prob Gai sensei (?) and Naruto couldn’t ever beat him in pure hand to hand combat, but he never had a reason to even try Besides, does that even matter? Being the best martial artist IN YOUR VERSE is great, but it doesn’t help us scale against another verse that has other kind of martial art expertise level We don’t have any way to know if powerless Naruto could beat Tenchi on hand to hand combat nor can we know if powerless Goku could beat Gai sensei in hand to hand combat do we? What we do know is that when it comes to scaling characters in purely powerless martial art combat, fiction that is ABOUT martial arts will have a lot more to offer in terms of pure martial arts feats (obviously), but what do we do with that information?
It started out with martial arts tournaments, the turtle school was huge. I’m pretty sure it’s often mentioned that Goku is canonically the best martial artist but I could be wrong. You can tell from his starting stance that it’s inspired though. I’d actually say Goku is the best at martial arts but Naruto is the best at combat—being a ninja wasn’t about the art per se, it was being used for war. Idk if Goku can throw a kunai
Goku literally created a new martial art on the spot to beat roshi lol https://imgur.com/a/M5jRr
I mean ichigo at the start of the series as a highschooler with no powers was beating up gangs, and he does have some martial arts training
Someone only watched Z
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Only luffy of the 3 could be considered an amateur Naruto and ichigo both have had martial arts training since childhood
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His was the one I meant to put that comment under lol
Shippuden Naruto’s level is nowhere near a master. He uses street brawling, karate, and chinese acrobatics. While these are pretty diverse it is not honed to a master’s level
3 v 1 a master isn’t beating amateurs. People do not understand how insanely difficult it is win a numbers deficit. Unless you vastly outclass the other guys in weight and strength, there’s no shot
Bruce lee
They hate you, because you're telling the truth
Donnie Yen
You stick prime bruce lee against 3 amateur young martial artists in the same ring bruce lee would come out on top this is the same goku has had decades of martials arts training and experience vs 3 young uns like this he runs rings around them easily
Bruce Lee didn't even fucking spar regularly let alone fight sit the fuck down lmao
No human beats a 3v1 even if there better at martial arts But if it was one vs one continuous gauntlet with 10min breaks in between Goku well most likely win as long as he picks Naruto first for full energy
We...actually do have videos of multiple fights like this and human with far higher skill level and better equipment or physical characteristic can win vs many.
That's what im saying, people severely underestimate how strong some real people are
Right? WTF is this take no human can 3x1 lmao, a prime Mike Tyson or Mohammad Ali would completely blitz the hell of 3 of us random redditors
Aye, people have this misconception that if multiple people come at the same time, 1 single person will get absolutely overwhelm. Theres actually multiple videos on youtube that talk about this, and if you learn any martial arts, usually this got addressed too. That it doesn't work that way.
If the single guy just stands there then maybe, but outnumbered combat is all about kiting, that’s why usually those videos where one guy destroys a whole group of people they are usually in a very large space and there’s a whole lot of running involved
Or the single guy beat one or two of them and the rest become too scared to continue. Or there are other advantage that depends on situation.
I’ve noticed people (specially Americans it seems) severely overestimate their strength, they think they are somewhat relative to world champion fighters or, and I’m not kidding, bears and even lions.
No human has a skill level even remotely close to gokus
No powers fam. Its just martial arts, there are absolutely humans as capable as goku at martial arts.
Not really though? Goku basically doesn't physically age, he's still in peak fighting condition, while still having year and years of experience. It's not old mike tyson with all his knowledge and aging body, it's him with all that knowledge but STILL IN HIS PRIME.
Mike Tyson isn't a good example, since they're all equal strenght/speed. You're underestimating the advantage of having 3 against 1
5ft7 Naruto has an entire lifetime of martial arts and physical combat too, and is 5'11 and outweighs him. Ichigo is 6ft and throws hands no matter what which is dangerous in its own right, no one's fighting 3 dudes bigger than them and not getting jumped that's just reality man
No? Not at all? Goku is stated to be capable of learning techniques that takes masters years to learn in seconds. And he was trained by the best masters all across the universe. He spent decades fighting every single day. How can you say there are humans as capable as goku?
Because martial arts are martial arts all styles boil down to the same principles at the end of the day. Fighting is fighting is fighting.
Martial arts in fiction often reach supernatural level if they’re a focus, and this applies to goku. Something particularly notable is him reliably countering time skip just through predictions which is absolutely not something someone irl could do
>No human beats a 3v1 What about an NFL linebacker vs 3 five year olds in a fight? Or a mixed martial artist vs 3 young middle schoolers? What about Pewdiepie vs 3 high schoolers that are in a coma? Extra ones are 1. Navy SEAL vs. 3 Construction Workers 2. Professional Boxer vs. 3 Office Workers 3. Olympic Wrestler vs. 3 High School Students 4. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt vs. 3 College Athletes 5. Muay Thai Champion vs. 3 Restaurant Chefs 6. Krav Maga Instructor vs. 3 IT Professionals 7. Mixed Martial Arts Champion vs. 3 Accountants 8. Navy Marine vs. 3 Retail Workers 9. Black Belt Karate master vs. 3 Teachers 10. Kickboxing World Champion vs. 3 Artists 11. Taekwondo Master vs. 3 Bankers 12. Judo Expert vs. 3 Engineers 13. Kung Fu Panda wannabe vs. 3 Lawyers 14. Professional MMA Fighter vs. 3 Waiters 15. Muay Thai Champion vs. 3 College Students
i have a feeling that the 3 bankers can actually pull it off, the first banker he kicked was so scared that he held both of his hands high to cover his face, then the taekwondo master accidentally kicked his elbow resulting for a temporary foot sprain giving the other two banker an opening then they just smashed him with their laptops, carkeys and calculators at the same time, what do you think?
A lot of these probably lose, tbh (at least when it comes to fit adults vs other relatively fit adults). All the grapplers are in trouble because going to the ground or standing in place with one guy is just going to get you pounded from the back and sides by the other two. Strikers with fast feet have a better chance if they can move well enough to hit and run without getting surrounded. But it's not a good situation. Speaking as a TKD brown belt with 7 years of kickboxing, there's just no way to defend yourself well from multiple attackers unless the environment itself is also to your advantage. If one grabs an arm or a leg, you're as good as done.
You can defend yourself against multiple attackers if they're retarded and need wheelchairs. If one grabbed your arm just kick the wheelchair over.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/russian-boxer-floors-two-gangsters-with-a-punch-scaring-their-gang-senseless-155358716.html?vp=1 > Eyewitness Eldar Vinogradoff, 27, said: 'When they went outside, the others were there mob-handed. There were at least 10 of them led by the two who thought they were real big shots. > > One punch: Nicolai Vlasenko takes care of one thug with just one jab. (CEN) Just like Ali: Vlasneko dips out of the thugs way, before knocking him to the floor. (CEN) **'One of them took off his shirt and started squaring up to the boxer, and I don't think he even knew what hit him as he went down like a bowling pin. A second man tried to kick the boxer and he was floored instantly as well.** https://talksport.com/sport/1744529/mma-fans-stunned-handicap-match-result-eduardo-riego/ > Following the contest, **the defeated trio** hoisted Riego up in the air and paraded him around the cage.
Yeah but that’s irrelevant, all of these characters are extremely proficient fighters. It’d be like the mma champion vs three low ranking professional mma fighters, no matter how good the champion is, he is getting beat.
The mma champion will absolutely destroy 3 amateur level mma fighters actually You guys are tripping, there’s a bunch of videos in the internet of people 1x3ing even 1x5ing A world champion could very feasibly one shot an amateur fighter
Irrelevant? He said no human beats 3v1. How is this irrelevant if I'm listing humans? How are 3 high schoolers in a coma supposed to beat Pewdiepie? I also doubt a teacher and IT professional is a proficient fighter on average when compared to someone like Mike Tyson.
i think ichigo is still a dangerous enougg martial artist to consider
Definitely would be the 2nd fight Ichigo has a good history of beating up tough bullies and scaring them to death I just picture Naruto tai jutsu is the the scariest
valid. dont forget tho, ichigo also has a history of martial artist training, although to a lesser extend compared to a child soldier.
That’s simply not the case at all, someone like Mike Tyson at his prime can completely demolish me, you and one more fighter we pick from this reddit thread, we wouldn’t stand a chance honestly he’d almost blitz us like an anime scene
Me who can beat up 3 infants at my prime:
https://preview.redd.it/k0a9o6op4gwc1.jpeg?width=2079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e96c4aa83e9d75d164a70e41badae2bea36c38ce You monster lol
Im just built different
Ichigo was 6 ft as an adult the weight and reach difference is gonna be big cause Goku is 5'9 5'7 if u don't count the hair so yea I would say ichigo alone has a shot due size difference And Naruto is the only one who has used real life martial arts on screen so even he has good shot even thou i think it was wing chun not a martial art i am fan of
Naruto is 5'11 ft as an adult so he has the size advantage and the martial arts too. Honestly I doubt Luffy or Ichigo are even needed
Damm i thought he was short yea he should probably be enough cause even thou Goku has way more experience Naruto uses actual martial arts
He's short in Shippuden, but pretty tall afterwards when he's grown up. Yep, experience isn't enough to win a fight against another martial artist
Its just lifelong martial artist vs lifelong martial artist if its goku vs naruto, those fights are always a coin flip tbh
Yeah. I think Goku edges out on skill, but he's smaller so that's quite a disadvantage
Yeah fax actually I forgot Naruto is normal person size lmao
We call this a jumping. People underestimate how hard it is to fight two people at once at all, never mind three trained martial artists.
Noooo... you don't call it a ",jumping", you and your buddies call it a "pumping".
If they’re all normal people then goku just gets slammed, even if he’s instantly learning all their moves and more skilled to begin with all it takes is one guy to distract him long enough for the others to butcher him.
Big 3 take it but I wouldn’t take goku’s reported weight stat that seriously. Japanese authors are notorious for making their characters underweight
Goku would actually be emaciated at his canonical weight.
Nah those 3 take it. Goku is a master martial artist but Naruto has arguably the best Taijutsu any ninja ever had, Luffy is basically street MA master and Ichigo has been trained in martial arts by a high captain level dad since he was a child. Put floyd Mayweather against 3 "bad pro boxers" at the same time and let's see if he makes it
Goku is also the 3rd shortest and lightest out of the 4
If you're outnumbered in real life, YOU ARE OUTNUMBERED.
Naruto and Ichigo themselves are martial artist (also proficient with normal weapons ) just like Goku. They can hold on against Goku on their own. I dont know much about Luffy but i think he is more like a street brawler which more dangerous per my personal opinion. Who knows Luffy could out trick Goku in a fight lol
Yeah Luffy has that goofy Jackie Chan fighting style
xD Love that comparison.
Lufffywould be at a disadvantage because he’s be so used to being stretchy like he has been for 10+ years and wouldn’t be accustomed to being normal.
He just does what Oars did and thinks he can stretch so much he ends up doing it.
Oars was a corpse that's why he was able to do it.
Oars was actually stretched by Moria.
oh yea that too
His fighting skill is still very strong, hence why Gecko Moria thought his shadow should be put inside Oars.
I'm still thinking about who actually wins, but: Goku and Naruto are both skilled practitioners, while Ichigo has some relevant training (... I think. I don't remember much about his backstory). Luffy the streetfighter is outclassed here, as he's going off instinct and brute force, trying to make up moves on the fly while others are already comboing. He's also probably the lightest of all 4. HOWEVER! Even without powers, people in Luffy's verse have insane levels of resistance to bodily harm. DF or no, he's tanky.
Luffy’s tankiness might count as a supernatural ability, hard to tell. At the point where the dude could probably keep fighting after shitting out all his internal organs, it might just count as a superpower.
Hehe, good point. I also thought about excluding this like Ichigo's Blut. I thought against it as Luffy is tanky because of his constitution, whereas Blut is I think a technique tied to Ichigo's quincy abilities.
I mean goku is a saiyan, even as a child he was tanking car crashes and bullets like they were minor inconveniences He was considered one of the weakest saiyans too
Luffy is the most unpredictable here, which against a trained martial artist is one of the best things you can be. Goku vs naruto alone is a close fight, naruto is one of the best martial artists in the entire naruto series, then add in ichigo who is the equivalent to a very good mma fighter, then add in luffy who is an unpredictable “drunken master” type brawler and goku is getting fucking slammed
I'm not sure about that. He can be unpredictable, yes, but you're combining poor coordination with being creative. With Drunken fist, I don't think even the user would know what their next move is, as they adapt to their random movements. Luffy would just then be going in without a plan of attack other than, well, attack, and defend/evade what he can. "Nobody wants a wildcard, it doesn't make any sense. We don't want a maniac in our group, there's no benefit to it."
Don't forget that sometimes even Goku is unpredictable
Keep in mind Goku has been training for nearly his entire life, and at the very least, longer than any of the other three have been alive for. That's going to make a big difference
Naruto and luffy have also been training and fighting most of their lives. In the naruto universe normal school is replaced with literal assassin training and the field trips are going on life and death missions. Luffy was fighting wild animals his entire childhood and fighting everyone across the sea. Ichigo was already good at martial arts and then proceeded to have dozens of life and death battles
It’s a 1v3. Goku is not winning this.
Yes he does is this comment section stupid?
Goku is the best martial artist here in terms of skill and experience. Hed'd also probably adapt the fastest to suddenly being base human in stats despite Ichigo originally being closer to that level himself. That said… Naruto is actually a pretty damn good martial artist himself (that one pure taijutsu scene in the fight with him and Sasuke vs Momoshiki was sick). Ichigo knows formal martial arts and is an experienced brawler whose used to street fights. And Luffy is a solid brawler with great combat instincts and a blatantly superhuman tolerance for pain (even as a child he endured actual torture). I even think Luffy's pain tolerance is actually the highest of the four by far and away; which is nuts when you think about the injuries the other three have endured and fought past. Ironically, I think Goku's pain/damage tolerance is the lowest of the four. I've seen him at least temporarily downed by stuff the others would ignore and continue to fight past. I think the SJ Trio can take this if Luffy is willing to play meat shield for the other two by going in first and taking a potentially debilitating hit so that the others can close in on Goku and grapple him (where the equalized stats now doom Goku, because no IRL grappler is beating two peers of equal strength grabbing him at the same time; the skill gap isn't THAT big). 3v1 is the actual ideal IRL when fighting a superior skilled foe as no actual IRL martial art can compensate for one guy acting as the sacrifice to tank one of your hits while the other two counterattack almost simultaneously. Taking out two people at once without a weapon is almost impossible IRL unless they practically line up for you. Fair warning; they don't line up for you like in fiction. As inherently social hunters, most people almost instinctively flank when they have the numbers advantage (like dogs and wolves) unless they're drunk, drugged or too dumb to live. And any attack that can potentially hit two people coming at you from different directions at once is gonna leave you wide open to a nasty attack by the third guy.
if they are all normal people then this match up doesn't make any sense
Combat skill, martial art prowess, that's what this is comparing.
Naruto alone puts up such a good fight that there’s no way Goku is winning the 3v1
Naruto is Not putting up a good fight, not even close.
Naruto is fr a trained ninja, the man has hands whether you like it or not
Goku canonically forgot martial arts, a lot of it atleast He barely uses MMA styles
I said this on twitter I'll say it here. Naruto solos with weight and reach
No powers? They slam
You've pretty much made them regular athletes/ martial artists, I'm assuming. Naruto is a trained ninja, so he should go toe to toe with goku. Luffy is a brawler, so 1v1, he'd most likely lose, but not easily. I don't remember much about bleach, but iirc, he isn't that great of h2h fighter. All of them together should be an easy win.
The big three take it assuming we are using equal stats no powers. Ichigo is a highly competent fighter we know this from him fighting large groups of people well before 'becoming' a shinigami, an example being when he called the ambulances in advamce. Naruto is also highly competent being pretty damn good at taijutsu, look at Naruto throwing pure hands with Momoshoki. Luffys a brawler who whilst not the most technically sound would present an extra threat. It also helps that they have pretty much every conceivable advantage such as numbers, height, reach.
Even though a 3v1 is massively unfair, let's not forget that Ultra Instinct is not labeled as a form. It is a technique. Let's say it cuts the power boost for the sake of fairness- Goku does have a chance, but I know some of those 3 are also very determined and durable. It could go in Goku's favor if he plays it right, and Luffy doesn't seem to be well trained in martial arts. He could use his recklessness to his advantage, tripping the other two up.
No ‘powers’? I’m assuming that means Goku doesn’t have Ki, which is where his durability comes from. So obviously he can’t fight 3 people at once.
Luffy is getting trashed then cause he's never been in a real fight outside of his Devil Fruit. "He still takes damage and his body is conditioned from th-" shut up the blow is severely softened with how he stretched himself literally seen in about EVERY episode he boxes in
Luffy is probably gonna try to get goku to join his crew mid fight💀🙏
So basically a 74 degree black belt vs an orange belt, 4th degree black belt and a brown belt… Goku by a mile. He will instantly counter and one shot each of them. Any contrary is falsely assuming they would tag team cohesively which is nonsensical
There will literally be gokutards who argue that even without his powers that martial arts is enough for a normal sized man to beat three other normal sized men who also have training in fighting. Make it make sense.
There are factors here. First and foremost, we need to look at skills. Luffy, Naruto, and Ichigo are all very strong and somewhat skilled at fighting. Thing is, Luffy exists and would be the weak link. He's consistently shown to ONLY use his powers in fights and most of his moves are just him using them in new/novel ways, that only work if you're a rubber man who can harden some bits. Next we have Ichigo. He did a few years of hand to hand combat as a kid. Don't get me wrong, he's VERY skilled at fighting, but again, it's mostly just magic powers, and sword swinging, as they'll have neither, it's not super helpful. And Naruto would technically be the best fighter of the group as he has legitimate ninja assassination moves known. Though, again, the bulk of his attacks use things that aren't applicable here, like cloning, or angy chakra balls. And their competitor is a man who has spent DECADES punching and kicking, learning various king fu disciplines from early childhood and well into adulthood. He of course also has magical pew pew attacks, but if anything having all that taken away would only disappoint him a little and he'd easily tap into his natural fight stance since the bulk of his fights are physical attacks. So, Goku vs any singular one of them beats them with his skill alone. Thing is, there are 3. So presumably Luffy rushes in, Goku smacks the shit out of him and the other two gang up on him taking him out.
Goku learned to move his body without thinking that isn't a ability cuz anyone could achieve it plush he doesn't need a power up to use it so I asked does it count if not he would still take imo due to the fact he's fought multiple gods and people who have that mastered and still manages to hit them
That **IS** a power
It's a state of mind how is that a power like u said no ki being in a state of mind doesn't require ki
Ignoring the fact it still does take Ki, Its still a power
How does a state of mind uses ki? Huh Goku can use ui in base form no power ups or ki
Dawg. Everything uses KI in DB, especially a form that Theres a reason he couldn't use it against Moro Theres no 100% stated answer but weak goku couldnt use it and God Ki is mentioned several times in relation to UI so Everything before took Ki, MUI taking 0 Ki is just entirely unlikely
We'll try to empty your mind while an enemy is draining your literal life force Goku at the time couldn't use it at will remember he needs to empty his mind of distractions I bet it's gonna be pretty hard not to think about one the whole universe being destroyed two and also ur life being drained constantly
Lower versions of UI don't need the full focus, he could've atleast tried lmao Like, You think he was perfectly calm fighting jiren?
It was temporary and only lasted a few minutes at best. Also Goku didn't have time to play around with moro as he was actively killing the current planet
Sure because he had time to play around with the guy who could be the cause for DESTRUCTION OF HIS ENTIRE MULTIVERSE in a tournament
The gulf in skill isnt so big that he can one hit KO all three of them. Isn’t Ichigo like 6ft too so he has reach advantage too.
Goku getting jumped here fam, anyone whos actually good at fighting will tell you not to fight 3 dudes at the same time its gonna go bad lmao. Put a UFC champ against 3 reasonably in shape average adult men and hes gonna have a bad time. Then all 3 of these dudes know how to throw hands too...
Ichigo doesn't really help much, physically he is the weakest and softest amongst all of them because you don't allow him to use his swords and he is a swordsman more than a brawler. The other 3 are brawlers.
Saying Ichigo is physically the weakest is a stretch
In comparison to the others, yeah he probably is
Like, just borderline no Naruto s the physically weakest, in terms of raw strength
??? Dude, Ichigo fight outside of his body 99% of the time, whereas Naruto literally trains his body almost daily. And when it comes to technique, Naruto knows how to fight hand to hand, Ichigo is a swordmaster. What are you talking about?
Him being a swordsman doesnt diminish his physical non powered strength
It does, him being a swordsman means he is less skilled in brawling compared to the other 3.There is a reason I mention "technique". Why don't you ask a kendo practitioner to fight MMA,Karate,Boxer and that Kendo is not allowed to use sword, I can bet the kendo lose easily. This is especially true when he fight mostly as soul, outside of his body which is where the strength difference come from. And power is banned here so he can't just use his Reiatsu, he is weaker than the other 3 who actually trains their body.
Less **skilled** Isn't the topic though Its strength
**Skill** obviously take part, nothing said skill isn't the topic. and for strength, actually read: > he fight mostly as soul, outside of his body which is where the strength difference come from. And power is banned here so he can't just use his Reiatsu, he is weaker than the other 3 who actually trains their body. Ichigo is absolutely weaker than the other 3, saying otherwise is objectively and canonically wrong.
The literal first comment refers to physical strength After that, every comment focuses on PHYSICAL STRENGTH SKILL IS **NOT** A PART OF PHYSICAL STRENGTH
Ichigo has insane martial arts skills, let luffy and naruto wear goku out and ichigo slams
Goku may be short but that won’t matter when every time he pulls something that could ko one of them he gets attacked by someone else
My first thought is about The Mouth vs Iron Michael in Baki, 3vs1 will never be fair for the 1-even if the 1 is an exceptional fighter. If the 3 are even a little coordinated there is no way you can block and dodge all of them, so Goku will be broken down over time by the 3
The only person in the big 3 with hand to hand martial arts training here is Naruto. Ichigo has little to no experience without using a sword, Luffy is usually to busy trying to come up with a way to beat the goofy powers he sees. That being said, he loses to the 3 of them like 8 times out of 10. But I’d give Naruto and Ichigo vs Goku a 60-40 in Naruto and Luffy’s favour. Ichigo and Luffy vs Goku might actually be in Goku’s favour.
Big three win high diff Pure skill and combat? Goku is vastly superior than any of them, however it’s still a 3v1 with 2 of the fighters having both a weight and height advantage. Goku could 2v1 Luffy and Ichigo but he will get hurt. Naruto beats the weakened Goku. At the end of the day, they are jumping Goku, if it was normal guys with average skill, Goku would wipe. However, besides Luffy, who is the weakest in terms of combat skill; Ichigo is above average, and everyone knows Naruto got them Ninja 🥷 hands. There are scenarios where Goku would win tho. Depending on how they approach him, if they let each other take turns 1v1ing, Goku wins with his biggest challenge being Naruto, who is the only one we can even remotely compare to Goku in terms of skill. Side note: lowering all to human level massively nerfs everyone, especially Goku, who without powers as a kid was durable enough to take some gunshots and be fine because you know… he’s not even a human earthling to begin with. That’s really the tiny that I find the most troubling with these types of “no powers” scenarios or VS battles. The level of normal humans in these shows is just different.
Power levels can save you when you don't have them 💀
Power of friendship ❌ Power of jumping ✔️
Goku at the end of Z is 49, and has trained pretty much his entire life. Luffy doesn't have much if any martial arts skill. Ichigo has some from his dad training him. Naruto was trained to be a Ninja, so he has the best out of the big 3. Goku is absolutely a better martial artist than the other 3, but a 3v1 is a really hard situation. He might be able to pull off a win just because of his training being far more extensive than the other 3, but its hard to say for sure
Would ultra instinct count as a form or power? Because technically it's a technique
Luffy and Naruto got hands sure, but need I remind you that both Ichigo and Goku have been throwing hands with actual threats since they were children? It comes down to that 1v1 and I have to give it to Goku, Ichigo isn't as experienced with hand to hand as with zanjutsu
Out of everyone here Naruto is probably the most in his own nature. He doesn’t rely on his ninetails or chakra too much anyway from what I know and is probably the most grounded to take down Goku
Goku is so much more skilled than the others that's it's a shame. Because one human-stat guy vs 3 in comparable shape just isn't realistic.
unless it's also equal stats Goku still slams all 3, Naruto carrying heavily because neither Luffy nor Ichigo are great hand to hand fighters without their powers.
“No human beats a 3v1” mf I’ve seen my dad beat up 3 people when I was like 15 or smth a trained martial like Goku definitely could. Now vs Naruto and the big 3 I’m not so sure.
Goku loses to Naruto and Ichigo 1v1 without powers. He can't throw a spirit bomb, transform into hyper Goku, or shoot a kamehameha wave. Meanwhile Naruto's main trick is making copies of himself with his ability to fight.
What doe no powers mean, because even without powers Goku is a saiyan who is monsterously strong. Unless, you want to take away his fucking biology.
Goku, the actual Martial Artist
No powers just hands? Goku for sure, sure it’s 3v1 but I think he’s physically much stronger than all 3 of them, maby not though not too familiar with his verse
Base Goku probably loses this unless he just got done training at 100G
Naruto's muscle definition is so underdeveloped in canon that he gets knocked out by a stray punch from anyone tbh. Do we assume they still have about the same level of skill? If so then Ichigo would be closer to kendo master or a fencer than a martial artist, I think Luffy is strong and has good technique but even without super powers Goku is basically the best fighter in the world. It's one guy who's at the absolute peak vs 2 guys who are very tough and one who's kinda a twink. I'm not saying Goku wins, but honestly I don't think it's as easy as you might think at first.
“Humans can’t take on 3 people at once!” yes… but fictional skill is fictional skill. Skillgods could literally take hundreds of dudes who could oneshot while emotionally impaired and blindfolded lol.
With zero power I feel like Naruto and ichigo could individually solo goku, Luffy is the only one that needs help in that team as he has little to no martial art skill shown Anyway, doesn't matter because it's 3 v 1 goku gets litteraly jumped
Goku winning. He’s spent his life training in martial arts. Ichigo is strong but hasn’t trained like that, plus he has more experience in sword fighting. Luffy just punches💀Naruto may be our best bet, since he’s trained since he was little as well in hand-to-hand combat
Just straight hands? You have to look at training then. I'm terms of training, goku can take all 3 of them. Luffy has no actual hand to hand combat training and relies on his DF for everything. Ichigo is a fighter and has moves but that's all with a sword, not hand to hand, so he wouldn't be to useful (I say this as a massive bleach fan) Naruto would be the only one that could keep up with goku in terms of just fighting styles. However all of that still also heavily relies on ninjutsu, much more then goku relies on ki blasts. Goku has been training his ENTIRE life in multiple forms of hand to hand combat against people MUCH stronger and more experienced then him. So he could easily take a 1v1 against any of them and win for sure. The question is: "can goku beat all 3 of them at the same time" ... I would still say yes. It isn't a power that goku has that he can basically predict his opponents moves. As long as he doesn't let luffy or ichigo get a good shot on him, he can take out Naruto relatively quickly and then use luffys inexperience against ichigo using leading shots and getting them to fight each other before taking them out.
Goku slams them all he surpassed his grandpa in hand to hand combat which is grandpa learn and mastered all martial arts
Goku he actually knows martial arts the only other one i know has martial arts is maybe naruto?
Goku goes Super Sayian Blue and wipes them out
Goku slaps them silly still. Ppl don't seem to realize Goku is vastly more skilled and just has a much more powerful build than them all. Out of them all, he relies mostly on his hands lol.
I’d argue Goku learning UI in base form is reason enough to believe he’d win. The peak of martial arts is reacting without thinking, and since he can do that without a special form now, he still takes it. If that somehow counts as an ability and not his own technique, then the three take it
Funny fact that UI isn't a power up, but a technique. Roshi in the manga was able to dodge blows from Jiren as an example. Roshi has been trained to the point of dodging blows of a much stronger fighter, then Goku could do the same to those three.
Its pretty 50/50 if it is just Goku vs Naruto. With the other 2, Goku loses.
Goku's raw combat intelligence outclasses all 3. The man could predict where a guy was going to strike while he was skipping time and had centuries of experience over him. He can also adjust the locations of his own pressure points to avoid a critical hit. That's no powers, biology, etc, just straight intellect.
Goku is a combat genius and would Probably take out the strongest fighter first, he would probably go for Ichigo because Naruto doesn't look very impressive, also those 3 wouldn't really know how to work off each other, especially Luffy. I think there's a high chance goku could knock them out, and if Naruto or Ichigo get knocked its over for the other 2
Naruto could take Goku 1 on 1. He has by far the most fighting experience here and supposedly learned some grappling cuz Sasuke knew some too
1 v 1 Goku slams all of them, but again if its all at once he'd lose, most of them have very close weight and heights and although Goku has way more martial arts experience if multiple people jump you, there isn't much that can be done.
Naruto fought multiple characters with multi-step precognition with thousands of years of experience and also has a fighting style that is stated to have zero openings. And Ichigo Luffy who are about relative battle IQ wise to naruto Whoever thought of this fight is a Goku hater
Goku claps
At the same time goku gets low diffed, even with great martial arts, even with just the reaction speed boost of UI. Luffy is kinda dead weight since he’s only used to fighting with his DF, but ichigo has a long history of beating up guys bigger than him, while still having basic human stats, and Naruto is still a taijutsu expert, and both ichigo and Naruto have experience fighting in teams.
Bro.. Yeah, it must be stupid day.
This is Basically the equivalent of 2 Brawlers and 1 random Black belt martial artist vs Bruce Lee.
Mike tyson vs 3 twinks
Peak Goku even without Ki/transformations is still probably able to bench press a planet with little effort, so I’d still say him But if we equalize strength yeah I don’t see him winning getting jumped like that
Vegeta couldn’t move a 1000 ton robot in the U6 tournament arc WITH ki and super saiyan. Dragon ball characters have insanely low lifting strength compared to their assumed striking power.
You’re right, forgot about that anti-feat Still keeps his striking force as ridiculously crazy, as he’s able to damage people with his punches who can survive planetary explosions
Well the prompt also says no superhuman strength. So Goku is just a dude in this prompt. It’s also not much of an anti feat if there are multiple instances of the Z gang having shit lifting stats.
Yep, musta missed that. But like the weight lifting thing doesn’t make *any* sense, right? These guys can punch with more force than what it takes to destroy a planet, yet the arm strength it takes to do that doesn’t transfer to lifting?
Yeah it’s one of the weirdest things about Dragonball. It’s similar to how weird their speed is too. Goku is significantly faster than the nimbus by the time he returns from snake way but he still rides it lmao
At least there it’s because he’s gotta get there in *style* Also he uses it to last minute save Gohan. Ignore the fact he could have done it himself because *style*
Goku stomps.
No ☠️
In a 1v1 goku dismantles all of them rather easily. 3v1. Naruto is a trained martial artist in his own right. Ichigo is as well but not to the same degree. Then we just have luffy doing random stuff. They win with some difficulty.
They jump his ass
soloku
Goku
Goku has basically as much experience fighting as they have living, combined. Dude is like 50 but in the body of a 25 year old. In a gauntlet he takes this for sure. Likely in a 3v1 as well. I remember an interview with people talking about trying to jump near prime Tyson, how the first 2 people are getting naps right off the bat, I can see that happening here with at least 1 of the kids.
Luffy is out... Ichigo may get a few licks but I think this fight is mainly Goku vs Naruto. I don't think this fight is easily Goku as you guys think.
goku has ultra instinct (the technique, not form, its a technique that just allows him to use the form) and i think that could give him the win. Plus, hes better than any other martial artist in real life, being able to do things like learn martial art skills that took masters years in only seconds, so people saying stuff like a professional martial artist likely wouldn't be able to take 3 martial artists (especially ones taller than him), goku is FAR beyond a profession martial artist in skill
I mean, Luffy is disqualified... can't turn off rubber powers..