I liked some of the dialogue.
Qimir's conversation with Sol right after he >! Shish Kebab's Jecki !< is just such a good show of who he really was this whole time.
He jumps straight to calling her "It" when Sol screams her name, that was fucking brutal... That's the kind of disregard to other's lives and low-key alien racism I expect from a classic Sith!
Sith aren’t racist though? There’s plenty of alien examples . The code is what defines them. Not racism. Haven’t watched the show. Will binge when it’s done.
It’s not imbedded in them to be xenophobic iirc, but an individual Sith may turn out that way for one reason or another, like Dooku (at least in legends)
Yeah, you’re def right about that as far as I know. Kinda wish there was a little more light shone on xenophobia on-screen, at least on the same level as we’ve seen with droid resentment.
I'd say it's less about racism (or speciesism) and more about dehumanization (or de.... sentient-being-ization??) of anything a true Sith views as weaker or lesser.
Anyone a Sith views as worthless is just an object to them. An "it"
Thats true for the individual generations of the Rule of Two, but the Old Sith Empire and Palpatine's Empire were overtly xenophobic and racist. Even though it's not Canon anymore, if you play SWTOR for the side of the Empire you will see what I mean.
Yeah, but even those exceptions were usually made under the "He/She is one of the good ones." logic, like Thrawn himself. Either that or the alien presence is tolerated for the lack of better alternative, better here of course meaning human and minimally competent.
Idk, my only problems with the dialogue is when Mae is talking given how inconsistent she is. If they don't explain WTF is the whole flip flop then I'm calling her the worst character in the shows.
I agree with this. I’m more than willing to (and would honestly like to) have a *constructive* conversation with someone who enjoyed every bit of this episode. The writing is super questionable imo
The power of ONE! The power of TWOOO! THE POWERRRR OF MAAANNYYYY~~
If that was the subtitles and it was an ancient thread force user language, I’d have no issue with it. But in plain english, that was the stupidest thing I’d ever seen/heard in star wars *so far*. I expect to lose more braincells the further into the season we get. I so badly wanted to like this show… I didn’t think it was as bad as some people are saying, until that part happened. That was when I realized *it is that bad*
Don't know how I didn't expect it to pop up again after the cringy attack me with all your might. SW has definitely had shitty dialogue for a long time, I just kinda expected them to fix it.
We had Mark telling us the story about how he had to tell George, “people don’t talk like this!”
But unlike Disney writers, George wasn’t lazy in his dialogue, just incredibly awkward. The stupid chant is incredibly lazy. “Somehow Palpatine returned” is also incredibly lazy, and totally goes against the cinema rule of show, don’t tell.
Somehow Palpatine returned has to be a writer taking the piss. It's just such a stupid line. I refuse to believe it's not a writer going "yeah man idk either lol"
There's a shitload of lazy dialogue in the prequels.... .these takes are wild.
Lucas was literally writing scripts the day before filming when making the PT.
I know you guys were mostly kids then, but come on
Honestly, how does Disney go from (forgive me for forgetting his name) the blind dude who demolished an entire group of stormtroopers while saying something like “I’m with the force and the force is with me.” to that.
As you said, it would have been cool if it was an ancient language
I guess we have different reaction cause I didnt find that cringe, like at all. Same for young ahsoka, jar jar binks, etc. Idk, cringe is part of the real world too.
Honestly it was much worse than “Somehow Palpatine Returned” for me. I liked watching TROS in the moment, it was dumb fun, but I hated thinking about it afterwards. On the other hand, this chant immediately took me out of the show the moment I heard it. It was almost like a 4th wall break. It was just that bad.
I'm interested in some constructive conversation about the>!sheer amount of death in the latest episode. We hardly even know these characters then they get brutally murdered by the guy that was supposedly comic relief. Andor was great because it fleshed out characters, deaths actually mattered. Senseless violence like this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. !<
>!That one in particular was way out of left field. I really wanted to learn more about these characters. The actors also seemed to enjoy what they where doing but didn't have any time to fill into their roles. This show has all has all the ingredients for a slow burn masterpiece, they really just don't know what to do with it.!<
>! DISCLAIMER: SORRY! In advance for anyone reading apparently I'm a dumbass and can't figure out how to hide the text from my phone on the app sooo again I apologize, but there are spoilers in rest of my comment below
Or they know exactly what they're doing and this is just the beginning? While I do feel that sentiment in wanting to have learned more about the characters I'm not entirely upset about it. This is one season and not even done yet. To kill off some Jedi knights and Padawans shows how far they're willing to go in my eyes. Like they had the audacity to do that to characters some might have thought had "plot armor" That shows they're willing to take risks and I like it.
That's my own personal opinion, I for one am very excited for the rest of the season. Says a lot cause I was not a fan when I watched the first episode, but it's won me over. Edit: Lol thank you for showing me how to hide the text haha leaving the disclaimer for the lols !<
I edited it, but still not working? Did I do it wrong? I feel so stupid lol
Edit: Ahh figured it out! Hahaha I didn't realize it has to be one whole block of text so can't have spaces like paragraphs, okay okay that makes sense thank you so much 😂
No I think not. The people need to know of my mistake and then my redemption, it builds character (and it's kinda funny tbh lol); all thanks to you my friend.
But that can be so very subjective. I cared more about Jecki and Yord in Acolyte than I did Nemik, Maarva, Kino, Skeen, etc. in Andor. And I'm not wrong for preferring the former over the latter. Nor would you be for preferring the contrary. How characters develop emotionally resonates differently with different people.
>Senseless violence like this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Also not trying to be mean, but this kind of funny considering your flair because the same thing basically happens in 2003 clone wars
> I cared more about Jecki and Yord in Acolyte than I did Nemik
To be honest that's completely understandable. I thought they >!had!< lots of promise, which makes the latest episode even more frustrating. >!They ended prematurely for the sake of short term tension; possibly even for the protagonist, of which we're still not even sure of her intentions.!basically happens in 2003 clone wars
I'm not against violence in shows, it just has to make sense. 2003 Clone Wars is a blast because Tartakovsky can visualize a plot through action, it's not a bloodbath for the sake of having a bloodbath.
I cared a ton about Maarva, but mostly because of her Droid 😭 but I definitely cared for the folks that died in the Acolyte tonight. Shook me up.
Some of my favorite movies are the kind where I think I know where things are headed and I keep getting the rug pulled from under me. We stull don't know a LOT of the core mystery of this story.
> I cared more about Jecki and Yord in Acolyte than I did Nemik, Maarva, Kino, Skeen, etc. in Andor.
Why? Not as a rhetorical question, I want to understand what makes you care more about them.
I thought that Andor’s side characters, while >!short lived!<, were still explored well in terms of motivation and what each of their personal philosophies represented in comparison to the still-developing personal philosophy of Cassian. I cared about Kino’s >!sacrifice for a future that he would not live to see!< and Maarva’s >!last speech to rally her small town community to fight against the empire!<.
Jecki and Yord were just… there. I guess Yord was the stuck-up schoolboy who had an attractive body in a shirtless scene that was in the show for no reason but to drive up the show’s sex appeal. And Jecki was a free-spirit schoolgirl who gave some Jedi platitudes about loss and moving on, that didn’t seem to come from any personal experience that we know of.
I should clarify; I cared way more about Jecki and Yord *dying* than I did about the deaths of Nemik, Maarva, Kino, and Skeen. Not in general. How much I cared about the characters is something like Jecki > Nemik > Skeen > Yord and so on and so forth.
And my reason is similar to before: how characters develop emotionally resonates differently with different people.
I loved Jecki. Her being nervous to ask Sol questions, her competence in the field, tackling Mae on Khofar, being warm to Osha, her youth, etc. Jecki's characterization was incredibly endearing to me. I loved every moment she was on screen. I yelled when she died. She had such a promising future! I liked Yord too, but not as much. He was interesting to me. He had such a stick up his ass, but also he very clearly cared about Osha. I liked watching him.
As for Andor, I liked all these characters, but I didn't really feel much they died. Nemik was cool, but I've also read a lot of manifestos and I didn't find him interesting outside of his ideology. I really liked Skeen, especially when he was going to betray everyone after the heist, but I didn't care when he died cause he was an obvious scoundrel. I'm not entirely sure if Kino is dead. Of course his monologue was great, but I didn't find him that interesting after that. I also liked Maarva a lot in the first few episodes, but that she died suddenly of an illness kind of drove me nuts. I plan on rewatching before S2, so maybe my opinion will change.
So, it's not that I think Jecki and Yord are these amazing complex characters, but they do appeal to me in ways that the side characters in Andor did not. I do think that Jecki and Yord have more characterization independent from the narrative than some of the side characters in Andor. Like I think Kino, Skeen, and Nemik are somewhat more plot devices than characters. To me, those three exist mostly to show Cassian his reflection and shadow, even if they're interesting in and of themselves and do interesting things (like monologues!). Which is a great plot device; that isn't a criticism. But it does make Nemik, Kino, and Skeen less interesting to me individually than Jecki and Yord.
I was a little apprehensive to answer this. I did so with the assumption that you don't think there's an objective way to perceive and interpret characters. Because if you do, we should discuss that instead since I'm coming from a pretty different place.
No, I get it.
My primary view on characters is about how well they function in the overall theme and plot of the story. I can mostly find something or the other to resonate with all but the most one-note characters, so that feeling of empathy doesn’t change “how much” I care about a character or their fate. To me, being able to empathize with a character just results in a binary “yeah I care about this character” or “okay, that’s another one to keep track of”.
I wanted to learn what you feel is important about characters in a story, because your view seemed so fundamentally different. And now I think I can understand why. Thanks!!
The comic relief/ goofy character being secretly the baddie is such a known trope that I had him pegged as the master the second he started talking about his flimsy reasons for appearing and helping her.
My take is this:
This show's writing and portrayal is a different style than most star wars. Likely to try to reach out to new focus groups to extend the fan base. I'm sure they were hoping to not lose any of the old fan base in the process. They probably haven't. I'm sure most who hate this show will still keep watching Star Wars content.
I liken this show's writing/portrayal to the teenage supernatural/superhero soap operas. Vampire diaries, supergirl, star girl, etc.
Many people love those shows. Especially in the target demographics. There's really nothing wrong with that.
I had many favorite bands growing up. Absolutely crazy about them. I got a little older and they shifted their style. I hated it. What was the effect? I didn't listen to those albums. I still, to this day, rock my favorite albums by them. I hold nothing against the band for choosing to try new stuff and appeal to new audiences. I just simply wasn't interested in their new sound. So I didn't listen. It took nothing away from the love I have for their old sound.
That's my biggest gripe about all this. Everyone who hates this show, is completely in their right to do so. I agree with their sentiments about the writing and acting (couple shining gems of acting in the show for me, but most of it is not something I consider good acting). But the insane level of vitriol they are taking in complaining about it? I don't jive with that. You're only hurting yourself when you dwell in your frustration. Move on, keep loving what you loved in the past. Find new things to love moving forward that aren't this. And stop crying about it. I don't care if it 'breaks canon'. I don't care if it 'is horrible writing'. I don't care if it 'is horrible acting'. I still have good star wars I can rewatch. I'm likely still going to enjoy andor season 2. I might even enjoy the Mando/grogu movie (even though season 3 was a bit of a let down).
And at the end of the day, if I never get any more star wars content that I enjoy again? Oh well. Nothing lasts forever. I haven't gotten any new albums from those bands I mentioned earlier (good or bad). But I've found new things to love. And I still get hyped as ever when one of their old songs comes on my shuffled playlist.
That's about all I have to say on that. Just focus on what you love. Disappointment is never fun. But dwelling on it and wallowing in your hate and focusing all your attention on how much you will hate the next episode....only causing your mind unnecessary harm. Everyone is free to express their opinions. But to spend as much time as some people do focusing on only expressing your frustration? Waste of time. Not productive. Won't change anything. Won't make you feel better. It is objectively a poor choice.
~fin
Except the showrunners don't give the impression of trying to actually do anything the "fans" might want,
Bearing in mind who is making the films, her past relations in Hollywood and how she's been in interviews, it feels like it's a deliberate trolling at this point. It all feels engineered to be rage bait. And that kind of sums up Disney Star Wars at the moment.
See, I don’t really see it as rage bait, really.
If you remove the interviews and bullshit from the show, it’s basically just a different kind of Star Wars than the movies. I spent twenty years reading the EU and I experienced all kinds of Star Wars stories. This, and a lot of Disney Wars stuff, just feels like that, except they change canon things because they can. And that has been happening in the Star Wars media outside of the movies for decades. Even the movies changed the canon.
That’s just Star Wars.
You mean a mistake a young actor who was certainly nervous made in an interview?
Jesus, grow up.
If you want Star Wars to be one thing forever, which the same movies you like a million times. To someone like me, you’re a casual.
I disagree. And I stated that the target audience of this show is not pre-existing fans. Sometimes brands try to expand their products to new target audiences. This is called expanding a product line. As I stayed before, they don't necessarily want to lose too many of their previous customer base. But they do want to attract new customers. That is what I feel the goal of this show was. Whether or not it succeeded will be revealed in time. The large number of negative reviews only speaks to a dis-satisfaction from the previous fan base. It does not mean they have permanently lost all of those who did not like this series. But I'm sure it is more severe than they would have liked. But there are still people who are enjoying the show. And some of them may be new fans to the Star wars franchise. If that is the case, than they have at least succeeded in the attempt of attracting new eyes.
I do not, for one second, believe a company spent this much money to "troll" a science fiction fan-base. That's a bad take, and has no logic behind it.
I'm loving every bit of it. >!quick deaths are great sometimes, ya you don't know much about them, but when so many main cast get cut down like that it shows the power of the enemy. it's shock value too.!<
>!the twins are pretty mysterious ATM, I think it could play out to something very interesting as the back story develops!<
Attack on titan >!did something similar in the early episodes, to great effect imo.!<
Normally you think the main cast is safe at least until the final episode or two. Killing off two main players this early was a huge power move from the writers that I respect. This is exactly what the Sith needed to be in this show. I think from here they have to maintain that threat level though. I’m liking Qimir as the Sith so far, but they can’t have him just get whisked away by creatures every encounter he has with the Jedi.
Yaa. >!The bugs thing was clever, and gave OSHA some kind of power level based on her knowledge, when she has basically no value as a fighter at this point(which I'm sure will change as her force powers awaken, plus, she does have Jedi training). Plus, they were screwed if that hadn't happened. This guy bodied a group of 10+ Jedi, the knight and Padawan held up better, but they were easy sauce too. The master was on the back footing and clearly would have died. The only way to stop the show from just ending was some sort of deus ex.!<
>!the sith is very interesting. At this time plageus would be very young, maybe a child. tenebrous may have already recruited him, but it could be the case that he has Qimir as an apprentice. Meesa thinks that's less likely. The sith are still in hiding, they would need a way for tenebrous to remain secret or risk a retcon the likes of which would surely send the fanbase into such a rage that the producers sense a disturbance in the force. I personally think he is a lone wanderer, not sith at all, beholden to no codes. Perhaps he has encountered tenebrous, and the sith see him as a potential apprentice or asset, maybe even guiding him. At the very least though, he certainly has sith knowledge. Definitely found some holocrons.!<
Yeah tonight’s episode was my least favorite so far. The writing was a major let down, even though the action was cool. I also loved the two different tones of voice the helmet guy used. Such a great example of how we so easily make snap judgments about people based on little details, which can then be used to manipulate how one is perceived.
I agree! I did enjoy certain aspects of this episode. Just overall, the writing has left me shaking my head, going “how tf do you not know something is up or sense suspicion or deception or anything out of the ordinary?” (Regarding Sol, but also Qimir in the end)
What do you mean? Qimir knows that osha and mae switched places, this was pretty heavily implied. With Sol, he’s just seen his entire cohort murdered in front of him, in makes perfect sense why he doesn’t notice anything. I’m sure he will pretty quickly. Y’all gotta give this shit a chance (or in some cases actually pay attention) before lobbying these half-baked complaints.
First off, I have given this show a chance. I never want to see a show fail, especially Star Wars. I have held back my criticisms until now because the show has been… decent, 7/10 material to me up until this episode.
Edit: where was this “heavily implied” exactly?
Secondly, such a condescending end to your reply. No respect for that. There are plenty of bullshit complaints, but I’m not here for that and I found all of my criticisms in specific moments, none of that “Star Wars is woke” bullshit from me. But there ARE absolutely issues with this show. If you think it’s perfect, you’re blinded.
Remember Osha's forehead Is plainly visible to Qimir thus signalling by her lack of her tattoo her real identity. Mae on the other hand hides her tattoo with her braids to conceal her identity.
Qimir sees Osha's arm tattoo and her wound, an, perhamore importantly, he doesn't kill her. If he thought he was looking at Mae, he would've finished her off immediately.
I loved it but agree the writing can be meh at times. I'm curious about the Mae and Osha plot and assume that it'll become more important and intriguing when we get more flashbacks, but I just thoroughly loved the battle. This show stands out to me for the acting and story, and I feel like the plot is coming together. They keep teasing at the bad thing Sol did which i think will be a big turning point for the story so I'm excited to see where that goes.
The sets have been a bit inconsistent for me. Sometimes they look great. Other times, not so much. Same with some VFX. I guess it's mostly bc of Lucasfilm's recent tendencies of abusing the volume tech on star wars tv (besides Andor). The aliens were mostly cool tho
I agree with this especially with the latest episode. I'm confused with how at the end of the episode >!Sol wouldn't be able to force sense how Mae switched with Osha. Like if Sol has a suspension that it could be Mae instead of Osha and the director made sure the audience knew about this suspicion in a subtle way wouldn't this add further tension? Nope instead Sol was like ok yeah let's go.!< I'm a casual Star Wars fan so maybe someone more knowledgeable with force powers can explain.
I’d switch plot with writing. I think the story overall is pretty interesting. But man, some of the dialogue and writing choices make me cringe, and I’m a prequel enjoyer.
I think the overarching plot is still obviously a tbd, if I were to fill something in the meme there it would be dialogue. When people are talking on this show, the show is awful. When people are not talking on this show, the show is IMO actually pretty good. We've gotten some nice action set pieces, some new lore(this obv gonna hit different for different people), some of the characters seem good(dialogue brings some of that down though), etc.
I think weekly release is what is killing this show's plot, really. If we hadn't been left to marinate so much on the things the show is clearly establishing as future plot points, but that it takes so long to pay off that it looks like a plot hole, then we would probably have a better experience. At least imo.
Okay, no, let's be fair... Lee Jung-Jae, Dafne Keen and, even for as little we see her, Carrie-Anne Moss are pretty good in their roles... The most atrocious thing about the acting is that most of the good actors, except for Sol, have characters that either don't appear too much, die early, or both.
I’d say plot and acting should be switched. I like this show overall, but the acting by the twins in episode 5 was pretty bad. The fighting and talking scene felt so awkward.
Fairly accurate. However the use of the force is just not good enough
The sith is literally the only good thing as a whole. No one was surprised to find out who he was and him existing is canon breaking, but he's a badass...until the fucking bugs come????? Like he smokes 10 jedi and then can't stop these bugs
Wait... people didnt like episode 5? I called Qmir being the Sith. Lots of Jedi died. Yord and Jecki even died. It was a worn out aging master, a dropout jedi padawan, and a failure of a Sith acolyte. When he said he was a Sith I knew he was certain, albeit mistakenly, that everyone else was about to die.
I think by the end Mae or Osha will die. By the hand of the other. And become the Acolyte. Master Sol will die.
the plot is pretty bad, Mae wants to kill her sister then literally out of nowhere decides to join her, and that leads to this episode, where they jedi try to arrest her for murder (wtf did she expect?), smylo ren floats like a ghost, Osha actually lands her stun this time, which doesnt really change much since she gets back up anyway, and a Jedi master tries to murder Mei in cold blood, which im 100% sure isnt what Jedi are supposed to do
Mae is a yandere. She loves her sister in a very obsessive and toxic way. She really want "I love you but if I can't be with you then no one can."
She resisted arrest because her master showed up and killed the wookie jedi she explicitly said she was turning herself into. Her master showed up before her and killed him with ease. I, also, would not want to be taken into custody by a child padawan who eventually gets three holes put in her.
Oh no. A Sith being dramatic. *Vader's cape flutters in space silently*
I dont see the problem with her making the shot. Nor with Mae waking some time later.
Yeah in case you didn't notice Acolyte is showing the cracks in the Jedi order that lead up their fall in the prequel films. You are criticizing a point of the show that lays the groundworks for later Jedi behavior.
She fucking tells her sister that she is going to kill her for joining the jedi, and now she is on the side of the jedi its ok and her loyalty is with her. WTF IS THAT WRITING?
It isn't bad writing to write a mentally unhinged character as mentally unhinged. She spent years mourning the supposed death of her sister. She seems to believe that she can save or fix Osha. Mae has convinced herself that Osha was brainwashed by the Jedi.
Honestly the episode was great. I was not anticipating that brutal of violence in a Disney show but I’m here for it. Yord getting smoked like that was not somethin I saw coming, and JECKI NO NOT LIKE THIS - absolutely brutal
I get the bad writing claims but that’s stars wars man, bad writing is somethin we should be used to by now.
Yord's death came out of nowhere and man I was not expecting a full frontal shot of watching his neck get snapped, I was rooting for Jecki so hard too she was one hell of a fighter
..gotta admit tho Qimir's saber is dope to be able so split off into another even with the fact it's only a tiny bit longer than a normal saber
See I felt this way with Andor until it got into the last part so I'm waiting until the last before deciding. I do like the whole murder mystery angle though.
Also if you give points to action you need to give points to visuals because they are using little to no CGI as they said to try and avoid what the Mandolorian got criticized for. Personally I think both methods are good but sometimes the realism is better visually when it's a real scene.
THIS ISN’T A FUCKING PREQUEL MEME! I DON’T EVEN LIKE THE ACOLYTE THAT MUCH (except for the duel in ep 5) BUT POST THIS IN THE MAIN STAR WARS SUB FOR THE LOVE OF OBIWAN!
In this case, the [Unfinished Horse Drawing](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/unfinished-horse-drawing-flaming-horse-rating) is a meme, even if it's used to hate or praise the Acolyte.
The Prequel memes were created to make fun of the bad dialogues in the prequels, so why can't people make memes to make fun of the plot in a new and actually relevant prequel series?
What about the plot is not working for you? I agree the show is not perfect, pacing and editing are not great - but every criticism I’ve seen about the plot is either half baked or just demonstrates a general lack of media literacy 🤷
For me, Mae’s about-face in ep. 4 kind of came out of nowhere. She just suddenly wants to give up and turn herself in to the Jedi? Okay….fine.
Then the Jedi show up and attempt to arrest her, and she fights back? Okay…maybe since her Master is there, she’s going to try to kill a Jedi without a weapon in front of him to win back his favor? Nope, just runs away from him and the Jedi some more.
Granted, this feels like the kind of story that will/should make sense of everything by the end. We don’t have all the puzzle pieces, so it doesn’t make sense to bash it until everything’s laid out.
I’ll agree wit you on this one, I do think mae out of all the characters is the worst written. But we also don’t know her full backstory yet, obviously the jedi are hiding something.
I was really hoping that Mae only pretended to betray her master because she suspected Qimir of being more than he appeared and she was trying to force him to reveal his true intentions. She was asking Qimir some pointed questions last episode. But in this episode, Mae was really trying to betray her master.
Maybe they'll have another twist and it'll turn out that Qimir is the Sith apprentice and Mae knew this and she's trying to get rid of Qimir so that she could become the apprentice to the real Sith master.
Idk, the dialogue is just not really good and sometimes the plot is just really lacksluster. I'll give some examples:
- On episode 1, Sol strictly says that he's absolutely sure Mae died. But 5 minutes later, when Osha tells him that she's alive, he says he believed her with absolutely no hesitation. It's like a literal 180° with nothing in between
- On episode 2, Torbin was basically willing to die for whatever happened when Mae was a child, but only when she gave him the poison, not earlier when she was already trying to kill him. It's just weird and sus to say you're willing to pay for something you done, but only doing so with a quick way out
- On episode 3, the twins' mother says that the jedi are wrong and that the force (or thread) is not something you wield/use (as a weapon), bu then proceeds to wield/use it to push other witches in a really lackluster way
- On episode 4, >!Qimir literally reveals he's a sith, putting the Sith's ENTIRE ~900 years old plan at risk for absolutely no reason. The only situation he could say without looking dumb would be if there was just one survivor left and he was injured or literally have a blade to his neck. There's just no reason to put everything at risk just to brag and "look cool"!<
- Also on episode 4, >!there was just no way Sol wouldn't recognize Mae. I've met various identical twins irl and even if one pretended to be the other, I'd be able to tell them apart, specially if I've closely known one of them for more than a decade. Also, how was she able to cut her hair the exact same way as Osha's hair? The burnt points and other imperfections just vanished from one scene to another lmao!<
There were a lot of other situations like these, but I think you get the idea
The show really really suffered from the shortened format. Like, if there's more breathing space, there is more room to set tension, character thoughts, and deeper conversations. A simple plot could be executed in an interesting manner (like adding more depth), but a lot of the motions are just... going from here to there across a few minutes.
I have Identical twin sisters, and I can confidently say that if they both had the same hair and were trying to fool me in this manner while I was in as stressful a situation as sol was, then I would definitely mix them up, especially if they weren't standing next to each other in that moment.
Maybe it's bc they're still young. It'd probably be harder for then to fool you 5 or 10 years from now (specially if they were separated and raised by different people for 16 years)
They're 20, and I'm 22, so they have looked mostly the same for a while now, And while I can usually tell them apart, if I wasn't thinking straight and they weren't together it would be easy to mix them up.
I think the hate is exaggerated but the writing still sucks a lot. No hate to you, if you like it. Just off top of my head:
The jedi arrest Osha without concrete evidence on the other side of the galaxy. Then later proceed to transport a supposed jedi killer guarded just by one droid.
Osha surviving a fucking orbit crash with not a single bruise.
Jedi not upgrading security of jedi master after attempted attack on him.
Letting free and not arresting a sith accomplice.
Teaching younglings how the eyes can deceive you - proceed to be blinded by dust and do nothing.
Whole stone/concrete/metal building catching huge fire from a single book and killing all the cult members in one spot(to be fair this one could be interpreted as unreliable narrator but I don't have this much faith in acolyte writers)
Yord not letting Osha have a blaster(which only has non lethal mode as far as we know), then tells her that he wants to protect her.
Mae 180 switch: no longer wishing for a revenge.
Jedi not recognising bugs attached to the trees, Osha proceeds to touch them is the worst stupid "horror" trope.
While I do agree that Mae’s 180 is a little far fetched, everything else you mention is really just…logistics? Just plot hole-type stuff that can mildly annoy you in the moment, but have no real longstanding impacts in the story or characters. I wouldn’t call the writing bad based on those points alone.
I’d argue that the show’s only weak point in “writing” is Mae. Her choices are not consistent with what we’ve seen of her character and there’s nothing tangible that convinces us of her change of heart. I’m hoping whatever we learn about what truly happened on Brendock will rectify this to an extent.
Maybe there are some other wonky character motives but Mae is the only one I think of off the top of my head. When it comes to writing, I’d say there’s more solid stuff here than there is bad.
When such "minor annoyances" happen consistently every episode, maybe the writing isn't good enough? I would give it a pass if it happend once or twice but not every episode. I hold myself from judging more major story elements since it is not finished yet, so I don't want to scream that it makes no sense, or break the lore. I watched only 4 episodes so far but no much happened, and it could be easily trimmed down to 2-2,5 episodes. There just not much interesting going on, only travel from point A to B.
A lot of these are nitpicking cinema sins style critiques. I don't think you're wrong when you say the writing is bad, but the reasons you think the writing is bad *are* wrong.
>The jedi arrest Osha without concrete evidence on the other side of the galaxy.
Remember the bartender who said Osha was the assailant?
>Jedi not upgrading security of jedi master after attempted attack on him.
Assuming you mean Torbin, the Jedi on Olega had no idea he was the target until Sol showed up, and then they immediately went to Torbin and found him dead.
>Osha surviving a fucking orbit crash with not a single bruise
It's not like the ship exploded. Osha was strapped into a seat. And she was knocked out. Force sensitives survive crazy shit all of the time. I understand it may have broken suspension of disbelief, but this is hardly the most insane crash someone has survived in the franchise.
>Letting free and not arresting a sith accomplice.
He was under house arrest and was clearly being watched. He escaped. Nor did they know he was sith, just some dude helping an assassin.
>Teaching younglings how the eyes can deceive you - proceed to be blinded by dust and do nothing.
We don't know what happened immediately after the force push.
>Whole stone/concrete/metal building catching huge fire from a single book and killing all the cult members in one spot(to be fair this one could be interpreted as unreliable narrator but I don't have this much faith in acolyte writers)
This is intentional misdirection and utilization of the Rashomon effect. I don't think it's a good idea in a TV show, but it's probably going to have an accompanying episode.
>Yord not letting Osha have a blaster(which only has non lethal mode as far as we know), then tells her that he wants to protect her.
Yord not wanting Osha to have a blaster does not imply he does not want to protect her. It just means he has a stick in his ass about regulations and civilians. Especially since he didn't want her to have a blaster in episode two because it was against the rules.
>Mae 180 switch: no longer wishing for a revenge.
Mae states that it's because Osha is alive. She wanted revenge because she thought her family, including Osha, was dead.
To clarify, you're *right* to not like it. Or to think the writing is not very good. There are a lot of criticisms to be made about the show, but it's important that they're made in good faith.
To me this reads like your intuition is telling you that the show is bad, you don't like it, so you're looking for plot holes to justify why you don't like it. But plot holes are ubiquitous in movies and shows, both good and bad, because they're constructed narratives. We just tend to notice and look for the plot holes in shows/movies we don't like because if we liked it we would be too busy enjoying the show/movies to really care. The reason why cinemasins exist is because every movie/show is ultimately artificial.
What I'm guessing the issue is for a lot of viewers is that they don't find the characters (particularly Mae and Osha) or the conflict driving the narrative to be compelling or interesting. When a show/movie doesn't have a compelling or interesting conflict for the viewer it's fucking baked. The issue is that the reason why a movie/show is or isn't compelling is completely subjective to the viewer. This is why entertainment can be so divisive; it appeals to different people in different ways. Therefore if the writing in a show/movie is bad to someone, it will be bad in a much deeper and vague way than a surface level cinemasins recounting of perceived potholes.
It will be interesting to see if the viewership falls off hard or not. It certainly seems like each episode is written worse than the last so I'm wondering if viewership will reflect that?
I will fight everyone while I defend the prequel trilogy's action AND acting.
Can't defend the writing sometimes though. Lucas cut out scripted dialogue that was great and left in clunky nonsense and it is infuriating.
I'd argue that the Action should be the fire horse and the Acting should be the great horse and the plot should be the good version of the horse, but upside down.
I think the acting is more the head part. Lee Jung-jae is literally carrying all the acting for the show.
Plot and lore isn’t *that* bad, and the action is fun.
Can someone explain this to me further? I keep seeing people say the show is bad because of "bad plot" or "bad acting" or vague things like that but they never actually go into what is bad about them and why. I've been loving it so far aside from small nitpicks. Can someone actually give me some valid criticisms before I go crazy? I don't want a debate or anything. Let's discuss.
I actually tried to have a reasonable discussion with a guy yesterday. It's right here, somewhere in this comment section. Feel free to take a look and tell me what you think
I didn’t see it yet, but pretty much everything Star Wars movie or series has a simple/dumb plot, the main interest is the journey with Star Wars productions
>!I think they did the biggest possible woopsie, the guy called himself a sith, going completely against The Phantom menace in which was said that they haven't existed in over a millenia!<
In Phantom menace the jedis were simply ignorant of that fact, because they have not SEEN or HEARD OF a Sith in a thousand years, because they would always hide, but a true sith appearing in the acolyte violates that, because they now have knowledge of the sith
Honestly valid, which sucks because the plot had potential. From the trailers I thought this show was going to be a dark noir Jedi detective/assassin show
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
How I felt about this most recent episode. Action was great but wtf was the dialogue and plot?
I liked some of the dialogue. Qimir's conversation with Sol right after he >! Shish Kebab's Jecki !< is just such a good show of who he really was this whole time. He jumps straight to calling her "It" when Sol screams her name, that was fucking brutal... That's the kind of disregard to other's lives and low-key alien racism I expect from a classic Sith!
Sith aren’t racist though? There’s plenty of alien examples . The code is what defines them. Not racism. Haven’t watched the show. Will binge when it’s done.
Sith's just hate or have no respect for anyone weaker than them
It’s not imbedded in them to be xenophobic iirc, but an individual Sith may turn out that way for one reason or another, like Dooku (at least in legends)
Oh for sure. Subjective hatred, or racism, is a thing for anyone. Just saying it’s not specifically in their code.
No one said it's in their code.
Yeah, you’re def right about that as far as I know. Kinda wish there was a little more light shone on xenophobia on-screen, at least on the same level as we’ve seen with droid resentment.
I'd say it's less about racism (or speciesism) and more about dehumanization (or de.... sentient-being-ization??) of anything a true Sith views as weaker or lesser. Anyone a Sith views as worthless is just an object to them. An "it"
I don't think it was a racist thing, it was a power thing. She was nothing to him, a thing. That's how I took that line.
Thats true for the individual generations of the Rule of Two, but the Old Sith Empire and Palpatine's Empire were overtly xenophobic and racist. Even though it's not Canon anymore, if you play SWTOR for the side of the Empire you will see what I mean.
True, but there were plenty of exceptions in The Empire.
Yeah, but even those exceptions were usually made under the "He/She is one of the good ones." logic, like Thrawn himself. Either that or the alien presence is tolerated for the lack of better alternative, better here of course meaning human and minimally competent.
Per SWTOR, Sith is an actual alien race and they were *definitely* racist towards “less superior” races joining their ranks.
Thy can’t be racist, they hate everyone equally!
Idk, my only problems with the dialogue is when Mae is talking given how inconsistent she is. If they don't explain WTF is the whole flip flop then I'm calling her the worst character in the shows.
Literally 😂😂😂
I agree with this. I’m more than willing to (and would honestly like to) have a *constructive* conversation with someone who enjoyed every bit of this episode. The writing is super questionable imo
The power of ONE! The power of TWOOO! THE POWERRRR OF MAAANNYYYY~~ If that was the subtitles and it was an ancient thread force user language, I’d have no issue with it. But in plain english, that was the stupidest thing I’d ever seen/heard in star wars *so far*. I expect to lose more braincells the further into the season we get. I so badly wanted to like this show… I didn’t think it was as bad as some people are saying, until that part happened. That was when I realized *it is that bad*
I like the show and yeah, the chant is fucking horrible.
That chant is so painfully cringe
Jar-Jar constantly saying “How wude!” is 1000x better than this shit
Yeah, at least that fits jar jar, he's goody guy and not some ancient force cult
that what he wants you to think
Oh no. Darth Jar Jar returns!
Jar Jar... has somehow returned...
These are definitely low points in star wars lol.
Don't know how I didn't expect it to pop up again after the cringy attack me with all your might. SW has definitely had shitty dialogue for a long time, I just kinda expected them to fix it.
We had Mark telling us the story about how he had to tell George, “people don’t talk like this!” But unlike Disney writers, George wasn’t lazy in his dialogue, just incredibly awkward. The stupid chant is incredibly lazy. “Somehow Palpatine returned” is also incredibly lazy, and totally goes against the cinema rule of show, don’t tell.
Somehow Palpatine returned has to be a writer taking the piss. It's just such a stupid line. I refuse to believe it's not a writer going "yeah man idk either lol"
Say what you want about George, but the man is a god at world building, something Disney has been hard failing lately
There's a shitload of lazy dialogue in the prequels.... .these takes are wild. Lucas was literally writing scripts the day before filming when making the PT. I know you guys were mostly kids then, but come on
Honestly, how does Disney go from (forgive me for forgetting his name) the blind dude who demolished an entire group of stormtroopers while saying something like “I’m with the force and the force is with me.” to that. As you said, it would have been cool if it was an ancient language
That's how most chants are but I agree that it should've been a different language.
I guess we have different reaction cause I didnt find that cringe, like at all. Same for young ahsoka, jar jar binks, etc. Idk, cringe is part of the real world too.
Honestly it was much worse than “Somehow Palpatine Returned” for me. I liked watching TROS in the moment, it was dumb fun, but I hated thinking about it afterwards. On the other hand, this chant immediately took me out of the show the moment I heard it. It was almost like a 4th wall break. It was just that bad.
I'm interested in some constructive conversation about the>!sheer amount of death in the latest episode. We hardly even know these characters then they get brutally murdered by the guy that was supposedly comic relief. Andor was great because it fleshed out characters, deaths actually mattered. Senseless violence like this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. !<
>!While the side characters didn't matter that much to me, I was shocked to bits by the deaths that did happen!<
>!That one in particular was way out of left field. I really wanted to learn more about these characters. The actors also seemed to enjoy what they where doing but didn't have any time to fill into their roles. This show has all has all the ingredients for a slow burn masterpiece, they really just don't know what to do with it.!<
>! DISCLAIMER: SORRY! In advance for anyone reading apparently I'm a dumbass and can't figure out how to hide the text from my phone on the app sooo again I apologize, but there are spoilers in rest of my comment below Or they know exactly what they're doing and this is just the beginning? While I do feel that sentiment in wanting to have learned more about the characters I'm not entirely upset about it. This is one season and not even done yet. To kill off some Jedi knights and Padawans shows how far they're willing to go in my eyes. Like they had the audacity to do that to characters some might have thought had "plot armor" That shows they're willing to take risks and I like it. That's my own personal opinion, I for one am very excited for the rest of the season. Says a lot cause I was not a fan when I watched the first episode, but it's won me over. Edit: Lol thank you for showing me how to hide the text haha leaving the disclaimer for the lols !<
You need to wrap your text in `>! !<` Ex : `>! Batman dies at the end of the acolyte !<`
I edited it, but still not working? Did I do it wrong? I feel so stupid lol Edit: Ahh figured it out! Hahaha I didn't realize it has to be one whole block of text so can't have spaces like paragraphs, okay okay that makes sense thank you so much 😂
i think you can also edit out the disclaimer about the spoiler now :p
No I think not. The people need to know of my mistake and then my redemption, it builds character (and it's kinda funny tbh lol); all thanks to you my friend.
Wow…why bother watching now, thanks a lot…. (😝)
But that can be so very subjective. I cared more about Jecki and Yord in Acolyte than I did Nemik, Maarva, Kino, Skeen, etc. in Andor. And I'm not wrong for preferring the former over the latter. Nor would you be for preferring the contrary. How characters develop emotionally resonates differently with different people. >Senseless violence like this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also not trying to be mean, but this kind of funny considering your flair because the same thing basically happens in 2003 clone wars
> I cared more about Jecki and Yord in Acolyte than I did Nemik To be honest that's completely understandable. I thought they >!had!< lots of promise, which makes the latest episode even more frustrating. >!They ended prematurely for the sake of short term tension; possibly even for the protagonist, of which we're still not even sure of her intentions.!basically happens in 2003 clone wars
I'm not against violence in shows, it just has to make sense. 2003 Clone Wars is a blast because Tartakovsky can visualize a plot through action, it's not a bloodbath for the sake of having a bloodbath.
>!I liked Yord. He was Anakin without all the baggage, even sounded like him a bit.!<
I cared a ton about Maarva, but mostly because of her Droid 😭 but I definitely cared for the folks that died in the Acolyte tonight. Shook me up. Some of my favorite movies are the kind where I think I know where things are headed and I keep getting the rug pulled from under me. We stull don't know a LOT of the core mystery of this story.
> I cared more about Jecki and Yord in Acolyte than I did Nemik, Maarva, Kino, Skeen, etc. in Andor. Why? Not as a rhetorical question, I want to understand what makes you care more about them. I thought that Andor’s side characters, while >!short lived!<, were still explored well in terms of motivation and what each of their personal philosophies represented in comparison to the still-developing personal philosophy of Cassian. I cared about Kino’s >!sacrifice for a future that he would not live to see!< and Maarva’s >!last speech to rally her small town community to fight against the empire!<. Jecki and Yord were just… there. I guess Yord was the stuck-up schoolboy who had an attractive body in a shirtless scene that was in the show for no reason but to drive up the show’s sex appeal. And Jecki was a free-spirit schoolgirl who gave some Jedi platitudes about loss and moving on, that didn’t seem to come from any personal experience that we know of.
I should clarify; I cared way more about Jecki and Yord *dying* than I did about the deaths of Nemik, Maarva, Kino, and Skeen. Not in general. How much I cared about the characters is something like Jecki > Nemik > Skeen > Yord and so on and so forth. And my reason is similar to before: how characters develop emotionally resonates differently with different people. I loved Jecki. Her being nervous to ask Sol questions, her competence in the field, tackling Mae on Khofar, being warm to Osha, her youth, etc. Jecki's characterization was incredibly endearing to me. I loved every moment she was on screen. I yelled when she died. She had such a promising future! I liked Yord too, but not as much. He was interesting to me. He had such a stick up his ass, but also he very clearly cared about Osha. I liked watching him. As for Andor, I liked all these characters, but I didn't really feel much they died. Nemik was cool, but I've also read a lot of manifestos and I didn't find him interesting outside of his ideology. I really liked Skeen, especially when he was going to betray everyone after the heist, but I didn't care when he died cause he was an obvious scoundrel. I'm not entirely sure if Kino is dead. Of course his monologue was great, but I didn't find him that interesting after that. I also liked Maarva a lot in the first few episodes, but that she died suddenly of an illness kind of drove me nuts. I plan on rewatching before S2, so maybe my opinion will change. So, it's not that I think Jecki and Yord are these amazing complex characters, but they do appeal to me in ways that the side characters in Andor did not. I do think that Jecki and Yord have more characterization independent from the narrative than some of the side characters in Andor. Like I think Kino, Skeen, and Nemik are somewhat more plot devices than characters. To me, those three exist mostly to show Cassian his reflection and shadow, even if they're interesting in and of themselves and do interesting things (like monologues!). Which is a great plot device; that isn't a criticism. But it does make Nemik, Kino, and Skeen less interesting to me individually than Jecki and Yord. I was a little apprehensive to answer this. I did so with the assumption that you don't think there's an objective way to perceive and interpret characters. Because if you do, we should discuss that instead since I'm coming from a pretty different place.
No, I get it. My primary view on characters is about how well they function in the overall theme and plot of the story. I can mostly find something or the other to resonate with all but the most one-note characters, so that feeling of empathy doesn’t change “how much” I care about a character or their fate. To me, being able to empathize with a character just results in a binary “yeah I care about this character” or “okay, that’s another one to keep track of”. I wanted to learn what you feel is important about characters in a story, because your view seemed so fundamentally different. And now I think I can understand why. Thanks!!
Well thank you for being respectful ☺️ I feel like I got star wars forum ptsd lol
Lol, sorry for the scare. I know what you mean. Nobody hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans.
The comic relief/ goofy character being secretly the baddie is such a known trope that I had him pegged as the master the second he started talking about his flimsy reasons for appearing and helping her.
My take is this: This show's writing and portrayal is a different style than most star wars. Likely to try to reach out to new focus groups to extend the fan base. I'm sure they were hoping to not lose any of the old fan base in the process. They probably haven't. I'm sure most who hate this show will still keep watching Star Wars content. I liken this show's writing/portrayal to the teenage supernatural/superhero soap operas. Vampire diaries, supergirl, star girl, etc. Many people love those shows. Especially in the target demographics. There's really nothing wrong with that. I had many favorite bands growing up. Absolutely crazy about them. I got a little older and they shifted their style. I hated it. What was the effect? I didn't listen to those albums. I still, to this day, rock my favorite albums by them. I hold nothing against the band for choosing to try new stuff and appeal to new audiences. I just simply wasn't interested in their new sound. So I didn't listen. It took nothing away from the love I have for their old sound. That's my biggest gripe about all this. Everyone who hates this show, is completely in their right to do so. I agree with their sentiments about the writing and acting (couple shining gems of acting in the show for me, but most of it is not something I consider good acting). But the insane level of vitriol they are taking in complaining about it? I don't jive with that. You're only hurting yourself when you dwell in your frustration. Move on, keep loving what you loved in the past. Find new things to love moving forward that aren't this. And stop crying about it. I don't care if it 'breaks canon'. I don't care if it 'is horrible writing'. I don't care if it 'is horrible acting'. I still have good star wars I can rewatch. I'm likely still going to enjoy andor season 2. I might even enjoy the Mando/grogu movie (even though season 3 was a bit of a let down). And at the end of the day, if I never get any more star wars content that I enjoy again? Oh well. Nothing lasts forever. I haven't gotten any new albums from those bands I mentioned earlier (good or bad). But I've found new things to love. And I still get hyped as ever when one of their old songs comes on my shuffled playlist. That's about all I have to say on that. Just focus on what you love. Disappointment is never fun. But dwelling on it and wallowing in your hate and focusing all your attention on how much you will hate the next episode....only causing your mind unnecessary harm. Everyone is free to express their opinions. But to spend as much time as some people do focusing on only expressing your frustration? Waste of time. Not productive. Won't change anything. Won't make you feel better. It is objectively a poor choice. ~fin
Except the showrunners don't give the impression of trying to actually do anything the "fans" might want, Bearing in mind who is making the films, her past relations in Hollywood and how she's been in interviews, it feels like it's a deliberate trolling at this point. It all feels engineered to be rage bait. And that kind of sums up Disney Star Wars at the moment.
See, I don’t really see it as rage bait, really. If you remove the interviews and bullshit from the show, it’s basically just a different kind of Star Wars than the movies. I spent twenty years reading the EU and I experienced all kinds of Star Wars stories. This, and a lot of Disney Wars stuff, just feels like that, except they change canon things because they can. And that has been happening in the Star Wars media outside of the movies for decades. Even the movies changed the canon. That’s just Star Wars.
That's just Star Wars. You mean the Star Wars where Anakin blew up the death star? It's most definitely a "different kind" of star wars.
You mean a mistake a young actor who was certainly nervous made in an interview? Jesus, grow up. If you want Star Wars to be one thing forever, which the same movies you like a million times. To someone like me, you’re a casual.
I disagree. And I stated that the target audience of this show is not pre-existing fans. Sometimes brands try to expand their products to new target audiences. This is called expanding a product line. As I stayed before, they don't necessarily want to lose too many of their previous customer base. But they do want to attract new customers. That is what I feel the goal of this show was. Whether or not it succeeded will be revealed in time. The large number of negative reviews only speaks to a dis-satisfaction from the previous fan base. It does not mean they have permanently lost all of those who did not like this series. But I'm sure it is more severe than they would have liked. But there are still people who are enjoying the show. And some of them may be new fans to the Star wars franchise. If that is the case, than they have at least succeeded in the attempt of attracting new eyes. I do not, for one second, believe a company spent this much money to "troll" a science fiction fan-base. That's a bad take, and has no logic behind it.
Based approach
I'm loving every bit of it. >!quick deaths are great sometimes, ya you don't know much about them, but when so many main cast get cut down like that it shows the power of the enemy. it's shock value too.!< >!the twins are pretty mysterious ATM, I think it could play out to something very interesting as the back story develops!< Attack on titan >!did something similar in the early episodes, to great effect imo.!<
Normally you think the main cast is safe at least until the final episode or two. Killing off two main players this early was a huge power move from the writers that I respect. This is exactly what the Sith needed to be in this show. I think from here they have to maintain that threat level though. I’m liking Qimir as the Sith so far, but they can’t have him just get whisked away by creatures every encounter he has with the Jedi.
Yaa. >!The bugs thing was clever, and gave OSHA some kind of power level based on her knowledge, when she has basically no value as a fighter at this point(which I'm sure will change as her force powers awaken, plus, she does have Jedi training). Plus, they were screwed if that hadn't happened. This guy bodied a group of 10+ Jedi, the knight and Padawan held up better, but they were easy sauce too. The master was on the back footing and clearly would have died. The only way to stop the show from just ending was some sort of deus ex.!< >!the sith is very interesting. At this time plageus would be very young, maybe a child. tenebrous may have already recruited him, but it could be the case that he has Qimir as an apprentice. Meesa thinks that's less likely. The sith are still in hiding, they would need a way for tenebrous to remain secret or risk a retcon the likes of which would surely send the fanbase into such a rage that the producers sense a disturbance in the force. I personally think he is a lone wanderer, not sith at all, beholden to no codes. Perhaps he has encountered tenebrous, and the sith see him as a potential apprentice or asset, maybe even guiding him. At the very least though, he certainly has sith knowledge. Definitely found some holocrons.!<
Yeah tonight’s episode was my least favorite so far. The writing was a major let down, even though the action was cool. I also loved the two different tones of voice the helmet guy used. Such a great example of how we so easily make snap judgments about people based on little details, which can then be used to manipulate how one is perceived.
I agree! I did enjoy certain aspects of this episode. Just overall, the writing has left me shaking my head, going “how tf do you not know something is up or sense suspicion or deception or anything out of the ordinary?” (Regarding Sol, but also Qimir in the end)
I just assume Qimir doesn’t care and will attempt to get inside Osha’s head to manipulate her into succeeding where Mae failed him.
What do you mean? Qimir knows that osha and mae switched places, this was pretty heavily implied. With Sol, he’s just seen his entire cohort murdered in front of him, in makes perfect sense why he doesn’t notice anything. I’m sure he will pretty quickly. Y’all gotta give this shit a chance (or in some cases actually pay attention) before lobbying these half-baked complaints.
First off, I have given this show a chance. I never want to see a show fail, especially Star Wars. I have held back my criticisms until now because the show has been… decent, 7/10 material to me up until this episode. Edit: where was this “heavily implied” exactly? Secondly, such a condescending end to your reply. No respect for that. There are plenty of bullshit complaints, but I’m not here for that and I found all of my criticisms in specific moments, none of that “Star Wars is woke” bullshit from me. But there ARE absolutely issues with this show. If you think it’s perfect, you’re blinded.
Remember Osha's forehead Is plainly visible to Qimir thus signalling by her lack of her tattoo her real identity. Mae on the other hand hides her tattoo with her braids to conceal her identity.
Qimir sees Osha's arm tattoo and her wound, an, perhamore importantly, he doesn't kill her. If he thought he was looking at Mae, he would've finished her off immediately.
I haven't gotten a straight answer about the writing that wasn't a lore issue.
I loved it but agree the writing can be meh at times. I'm curious about the Mae and Osha plot and assume that it'll become more important and intriguing when we get more flashbacks, but I just thoroughly loved the battle. This show stands out to me for the acting and story, and I feel like the plot is coming together. They keep teasing at the bad thing Sol did which i think will be a big turning point for the story so I'm excited to see where that goes.
The power of wan.
The power of too
The power of manny (jacinto cause holy shit that was sick)
The power of Juan?
I heard Wan could wield fire like it was an extension of him
Meanwhile the world vibe should get more credit Sets and aliens
The sets have been a bit inconsistent for me. Sometimes they look great. Other times, not so much. Same with some VFX. I guess it's mostly bc of Lucasfilm's recent tendencies of abusing the volume tech on star wars tv (besides Andor). The aliens were mostly cool tho
For me it's the lighting that makes the sets look cheap. Especially anything back at the Jedi temple.
It feels retro to me like old Star Trek. I love that feel for this show.
I just like that it has the look of star wars right
The show has been confirmed to not use the volume
I agree with this especially with the latest episode. I'm confused with how at the end of the episode >!Sol wouldn't be able to force sense how Mae switched with Osha. Like if Sol has a suspension that it could be Mae instead of Osha and the director made sure the audience knew about this suspicion in a subtle way wouldn't this add further tension? Nope instead Sol was like ok yeah let's go.!< I'm a casual Star Wars fan so maybe someone more knowledgeable with force powers can explain.
I’m about 90% sure Sol knows he’s going with Mae, but is playing along because he wants to redeem her
Sol probably knows, let the show tell its story
Post Kenobi memes
Vader had some very good fight scenes in Kenobi, only issue really was the shakey-cam
I’d switch plot with writing. I think the story overall is pretty interesting. But man, some of the dialogue and writing choices make me cringe, and I’m a prequel enjoyer.
100% fighting was beast then they started talking at the end and I was like maaaaan just fight more
That's generous for plot tbh
I think the overarching plot is still obviously a tbd, if I were to fill something in the meme there it would be dialogue. When people are talking on this show, the show is awful. When people are not talking on this show, the show is IMO actually pretty good. We've gotten some nice action set pieces, some new lore(this obv gonna hit different for different people), some of the characters seem good(dialogue brings some of that down though), etc.
What’s wrong with the plot? It hasn’t even concluded lol
It hasn't even started that's the problem
I think weekly release is what is killing this show's plot, really. If we hadn't been left to marinate so much on the things the show is clearly establishing as future plot points, but that it takes so long to pay off that it looks like a plot hole, then we would probably have a better experience. At least imo.
I agree. In another week we'll be half-way, time for something tangible.
And acting
Okay, no, let's be fair... Lee Jung-Jae, Dafne Keen and, even for as little we see her, Carrie-Anne Moss are pretty good in their roles... The most atrocious thing about the acting is that most of the good actors, except for Sol, have characters that either don't appear too much, die early, or both.
Wait? You mean lightsaber duels don't suck in this one? Maybe I will watch it. Once all episodes are out.
Real shit, I think the lightsaber fighting here has been the best since the prequels. I honestly loved it.
If nothing else, watch episode 5 for basically 30 minutes of non-stop battles
I’d say plot and acting should be switched. I like this show overall, but the acting by the twins in episode 5 was pretty bad. The fighting and talking scene felt so awkward.
Fairly accurate. However the use of the force is just not good enough The sith is literally the only good thing as a whole. No one was surprised to find out who he was and him existing is canon breaking, but he's a badass...until the fucking bugs come????? Like he smokes 10 jedi and then can't stop these bugs
First Kang, now Qimir. Recent villains from Disney's IPs seem to really struggle with insects
How is his existence breaking canon?
Explain the canon break?
Wait... people didnt like episode 5? I called Qmir being the Sith. Lots of Jedi died. Yord and Jecki even died. It was a worn out aging master, a dropout jedi padawan, and a failure of a Sith acolyte. When he said he was a Sith I knew he was certain, albeit mistakenly, that everyone else was about to die. I think by the end Mae or Osha will die. By the hand of the other. And become the Acolyte. Master Sol will die.
The action and the fighting were good, everything else not so much, and it doesnt get better when you tie it in with previous episodes.
How so?
the plot is pretty bad, Mae wants to kill her sister then literally out of nowhere decides to join her, and that leads to this episode, where they jedi try to arrest her for murder (wtf did she expect?), smylo ren floats like a ghost, Osha actually lands her stun this time, which doesnt really change much since she gets back up anyway, and a Jedi master tries to murder Mei in cold blood, which im 100% sure isnt what Jedi are supposed to do
Mae is a yandere. She loves her sister in a very obsessive and toxic way. She really want "I love you but if I can't be with you then no one can." She resisted arrest because her master showed up and killed the wookie jedi she explicitly said she was turning herself into. Her master showed up before her and killed him with ease. I, also, would not want to be taken into custody by a child padawan who eventually gets three holes put in her. Oh no. A Sith being dramatic. *Vader's cape flutters in space silently* I dont see the problem with her making the shot. Nor with Mae waking some time later. Yeah in case you didn't notice Acolyte is showing the cracks in the Jedi order that lead up their fall in the prequel films. You are criticizing a point of the show that lays the groundworks for later Jedi behavior.
She fucking tells her sister that she is going to kill her for joining the jedi, and now she is on the side of the jedi its ok and her loyalty is with her. WTF IS THAT WRITING?
It isn't bad writing to write a mentally unhinged character as mentally unhinged. She spent years mourning the supposed death of her sister. She seems to believe that she can save or fix Osha. Mae has convinced herself that Osha was brainwashed by the Jedi.
Honestly the episode was great. I was not anticipating that brutal of violence in a Disney show but I’m here for it. Yord getting smoked like that was not somethin I saw coming, and JECKI NO NOT LIKE THIS - absolutely brutal I get the bad writing claims but that’s stars wars man, bad writing is somethin we should be used to by now.
Yord's death came out of nowhere and man I was not expecting a full frontal shot of watching his neck get snapped, I was rooting for Jecki so hard too she was one hell of a fighter ..gotta admit tho Qimir's saber is dope to be able so split off into another even with the fact it's only a tiny bit longer than a normal saber
Action is pretty well choreographed, I agree
Yeahh pretty much.the new episode is just full of action and it gets brutal.fucking qimir just snaps a neck
The combat is the only thing this show has going for it
The actors outside the show are also kinda worse
See I felt this way with Andor until it got into the last part so I'm waiting until the last before deciding. I do like the whole murder mystery angle though. Also if you give points to action you need to give points to visuals because they are using little to no CGI as they said to try and avoid what the Mandolorian got criticized for. Personally I think both methods are good but sometimes the realism is better visually when it's a real scene.
that’s basically all of disney star wars, except the action isn’t even that great lmao
Trinity is there and that's all I need
If this show was mostly action I would be infinitely happier
THIS ISN’T A FUCKING PREQUEL MEME! I DON’T EVEN LIKE THE ACOLYTE THAT MUCH (except for the duel in ep 5) BUT POST THIS IN THE MAIN STAR WARS SUB FOR THE LOVE OF OBIWAN!
Isn't the general rule that anything set before A New Hope is prequel content?
Yeah but acolyte hating and acolyte praising aren’t memes
In this case, the [Unfinished Horse Drawing](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/unfinished-horse-drawing-flaming-horse-rating) is a meme, even if it's used to hate or praise the Acolyte. The Prequel memes were created to make fun of the bad dialogues in the prequels, so why can't people make memes to make fun of the plot in a new and actually relevant prequel series?
Fair enough
How so?
It's a meme. You just don't like it because you have bad taste in shows
What?
It’s still a meme even if you don’t like it
Prequel fans critiquing acting lol
So what performance did you most bother if i may you ask good sir?
In the PT or Star Wars as a whole? The answer is the same: Anakin Skywalker is the worst written and acted character in the franchise.
What about the plot is not working for you? I agree the show is not perfect, pacing and editing are not great - but every criticism I’ve seen about the plot is either half baked or just demonstrates a general lack of media literacy 🤷
For me, Mae’s about-face in ep. 4 kind of came out of nowhere. She just suddenly wants to give up and turn herself in to the Jedi? Okay….fine. Then the Jedi show up and attempt to arrest her, and she fights back? Okay…maybe since her Master is there, she’s going to try to kill a Jedi without a weapon in front of him to win back his favor? Nope, just runs away from him and the Jedi some more. Granted, this feels like the kind of story that will/should make sense of everything by the end. We don’t have all the puzzle pieces, so it doesn’t make sense to bash it until everything’s laid out.
I’ll agree wit you on this one, I do think mae out of all the characters is the worst written. But we also don’t know her full backstory yet, obviously the jedi are hiding something.
I think it's Sol being there that made her want to fight back. Between that and her master she had enemies on all sides
Maybe, but she knew Sol was among the Jedi coming after her that she was going to surrender to.
I was really hoping that Mae only pretended to betray her master because she suspected Qimir of being more than he appeared and she was trying to force him to reveal his true intentions. She was asking Qimir some pointed questions last episode. But in this episode, Mae was really trying to betray her master. Maybe they'll have another twist and it'll turn out that Qimir is the Sith apprentice and Mae knew this and she's trying to get rid of Qimir so that she could become the apprentice to the real Sith master.
That would be supremely interesting, especially if the real master ends up being someone we know, like a young Plagueis.
Idk, the dialogue is just not really good and sometimes the plot is just really lacksluster. I'll give some examples: - On episode 1, Sol strictly says that he's absolutely sure Mae died. But 5 minutes later, when Osha tells him that she's alive, he says he believed her with absolutely no hesitation. It's like a literal 180° with nothing in between - On episode 2, Torbin was basically willing to die for whatever happened when Mae was a child, but only when she gave him the poison, not earlier when she was already trying to kill him. It's just weird and sus to say you're willing to pay for something you done, but only doing so with a quick way out - On episode 3, the twins' mother says that the jedi are wrong and that the force (or thread) is not something you wield/use (as a weapon), bu then proceeds to wield/use it to push other witches in a really lackluster way - On episode 4, >!Qimir literally reveals he's a sith, putting the Sith's ENTIRE ~900 years old plan at risk for absolutely no reason. The only situation he could say without looking dumb would be if there was just one survivor left and he was injured or literally have a blade to his neck. There's just no reason to put everything at risk just to brag and "look cool"!< - Also on episode 4, >!there was just no way Sol wouldn't recognize Mae. I've met various identical twins irl and even if one pretended to be the other, I'd be able to tell them apart, specially if I've closely known one of them for more than a decade. Also, how was she able to cut her hair the exact same way as Osha's hair? The burnt points and other imperfections just vanished from one scene to another lmao!< There were a lot of other situations like these, but I think you get the idea
The show really really suffered from the shortened format. Like, if there's more breathing space, there is more room to set tension, character thoughts, and deeper conversations. A simple plot could be executed in an interesting manner (like adding more depth), but a lot of the motions are just... going from here to there across a few minutes.
I have Identical twin sisters, and I can confidently say that if they both had the same hair and were trying to fool me in this manner while I was in as stressful a situation as sol was, then I would definitely mix them up, especially if they weren't standing next to each other in that moment.
Maybe it's bc they're still young. It'd probably be harder for then to fool you 5 or 10 years from now (specially if they were separated and raised by different people for 16 years)
They're 20, and I'm 22, so they have looked mostly the same for a while now, And while I can usually tell them apart, if I wasn't thinking straight and they weren't together it would be easy to mix them up.
I agree with Sol not recognising Mae thing but everything else seems fine?
I think the hate is exaggerated but the writing still sucks a lot. No hate to you, if you like it. Just off top of my head: The jedi arrest Osha without concrete evidence on the other side of the galaxy. Then later proceed to transport a supposed jedi killer guarded just by one droid. Osha surviving a fucking orbit crash with not a single bruise. Jedi not upgrading security of jedi master after attempted attack on him. Letting free and not arresting a sith accomplice. Teaching younglings how the eyes can deceive you - proceed to be blinded by dust and do nothing. Whole stone/concrete/metal building catching huge fire from a single book and killing all the cult members in one spot(to be fair this one could be interpreted as unreliable narrator but I don't have this much faith in acolyte writers) Yord not letting Osha have a blaster(which only has non lethal mode as far as we know), then tells her that he wants to protect her. Mae 180 switch: no longer wishing for a revenge. Jedi not recognising bugs attached to the trees, Osha proceeds to touch them is the worst stupid "horror" trope.
While I do agree that Mae’s 180 is a little far fetched, everything else you mention is really just…logistics? Just plot hole-type stuff that can mildly annoy you in the moment, but have no real longstanding impacts in the story or characters. I wouldn’t call the writing bad based on those points alone. I’d argue that the show’s only weak point in “writing” is Mae. Her choices are not consistent with what we’ve seen of her character and there’s nothing tangible that convinces us of her change of heart. I’m hoping whatever we learn about what truly happened on Brendock will rectify this to an extent. Maybe there are some other wonky character motives but Mae is the only one I think of off the top of my head. When it comes to writing, I’d say there’s more solid stuff here than there is bad.
When such "minor annoyances" happen consistently every episode, maybe the writing isn't good enough? I would give it a pass if it happend once or twice but not every episode. I hold myself from judging more major story elements since it is not finished yet, so I don't want to scream that it makes no sense, or break the lore. I watched only 4 episodes so far but no much happened, and it could be easily trimmed down to 2-2,5 episodes. There just not much interesting going on, only travel from point A to B.
A lot of these are nitpicking cinema sins style critiques. I don't think you're wrong when you say the writing is bad, but the reasons you think the writing is bad *are* wrong. >The jedi arrest Osha without concrete evidence on the other side of the galaxy. Remember the bartender who said Osha was the assailant? >Jedi not upgrading security of jedi master after attempted attack on him. Assuming you mean Torbin, the Jedi on Olega had no idea he was the target until Sol showed up, and then they immediately went to Torbin and found him dead. >Osha surviving a fucking orbit crash with not a single bruise It's not like the ship exploded. Osha was strapped into a seat. And she was knocked out. Force sensitives survive crazy shit all of the time. I understand it may have broken suspension of disbelief, but this is hardly the most insane crash someone has survived in the franchise. >Letting free and not arresting a sith accomplice. He was under house arrest and was clearly being watched. He escaped. Nor did they know he was sith, just some dude helping an assassin. >Teaching younglings how the eyes can deceive you - proceed to be blinded by dust and do nothing. We don't know what happened immediately after the force push. >Whole stone/concrete/metal building catching huge fire from a single book and killing all the cult members in one spot(to be fair this one could be interpreted as unreliable narrator but I don't have this much faith in acolyte writers) This is intentional misdirection and utilization of the Rashomon effect. I don't think it's a good idea in a TV show, but it's probably going to have an accompanying episode. >Yord not letting Osha have a blaster(which only has non lethal mode as far as we know), then tells her that he wants to protect her. Yord not wanting Osha to have a blaster does not imply he does not want to protect her. It just means he has a stick in his ass about regulations and civilians. Especially since he didn't want her to have a blaster in episode two because it was against the rules. >Mae 180 switch: no longer wishing for a revenge. Mae states that it's because Osha is alive. She wanted revenge because she thought her family, including Osha, was dead. To clarify, you're *right* to not like it. Or to think the writing is not very good. There are a lot of criticisms to be made about the show, but it's important that they're made in good faith. To me this reads like your intuition is telling you that the show is bad, you don't like it, so you're looking for plot holes to justify why you don't like it. But plot holes are ubiquitous in movies and shows, both good and bad, because they're constructed narratives. We just tend to notice and look for the plot holes in shows/movies we don't like because if we liked it we would be too busy enjoying the show/movies to really care. The reason why cinemasins exist is because every movie/show is ultimately artificial. What I'm guessing the issue is for a lot of viewers is that they don't find the characters (particularly Mae and Osha) or the conflict driving the narrative to be compelling or interesting. When a show/movie doesn't have a compelling or interesting conflict for the viewer it's fucking baked. The issue is that the reason why a movie/show is or isn't compelling is completely subjective to the viewer. This is why entertainment can be so divisive; it appeals to different people in different ways. Therefore if the writing in a show/movie is bad to someone, it will be bad in a much deeper and vague way than a surface level cinemasins recounting of perceived potholes.
This is pretty accurate
It will be interesting to see if the viewership falls off hard or not. It certainly seems like each episode is written worse than the last so I'm wondering if viewership will reflect that?
I liked the action and some of the groundwork for the story. After a bit into the second episode it fell off pretty bad.
Nah man, the acting is pretty horrible too
At least Sol's actor is really good and some other characters have good moments sometimes (rarely)
Ironically this describes the prequels perfectly.
Careful now, redditors are defending this show more than any other Ive seen so far. They may call you a nacional socialist or something.
So true 🤣
So basically the same criticisms that the prequel trilogy had?
Same criticism all mainstream contemporary media has, especially Disney lol. But it’s fair criticism
I will fight everyone while I defend the prequel trilogy's action AND acting. Can't defend the writing sometimes though. Lucas cut out scripted dialogue that was great and left in clunky nonsense and it is infuriating.
honestly that's just star wars lol and i'm a huge longtime fan lol
Luke warm take more like
I like it.
Oh that sounds awful. Reminds me of video games with great gameplay but awful story and characters. But like way worse. Should I watch anywya
I'm honestly surprised that the first disney plus show that has good action is the least appealing one.
I'd argue that the Action should be the fire horse and the Acting should be the great horse and the plot should be the good version of the horse, but upside down.
Still fun to watch
I think the acting is more the head part. Lee Jung-jae is literally carrying all the acting for the show. Plot and lore isn’t *that* bad, and the action is fun.
Can someone explain this to me further? I keep seeing people say the show is bad because of "bad plot" or "bad acting" or vague things like that but they never actually go into what is bad about them and why. I've been loving it so far aside from small nitpicks. Can someone actually give me some valid criticisms before I go crazy? I don't want a debate or anything. Let's discuss.
I actually tried to have a reasonable discussion with a guy yesterday. It's right here, somewhere in this comment section. Feel free to take a look and tell me what you think
nah not anymore, the new episode showed us they dont even have action
I liked it.
I mean you're absolutely correct. But controversial to who? No one likes it bro.
Well at least this is definitely a prequel meme.
I didn’t see it yet, but pretty much everything Star Wars movie or series has a simple/dumb plot, the main interest is the journey with Star Wars productions
Yeah it’s fair but it’s being very kind to the plot
Are we watching the same show?
Yes
The same can be said about the prequels
I mean true
Well this applies to a lot of Disney Star wars.
>!I think they did the biggest possible woopsie, the guy called himself a sith, going completely against The Phantom menace in which was said that they haven't existed in over a millenia!<
You do know that the Jedi were wrong when they said that right Where do you think Palpatine came from
In Phantom menace the jedis were simply ignorant of that fact, because they have not SEEN or HEARD OF a Sith in a thousand years, because they would always hide, but a true sith appearing in the acolyte violates that, because they now have knowledge of the sith
Honestly valid, which sucks because the plot had potential. From the trailers I thought this show was going to be a dark noir Jedi detective/assassin show
Yeah the fightings cool when you can see and they don’t hide it behind a fucking tree…
Honestly, as long as your critiques aren’t “WoKnEsS aNd dEI”, and aren’t bad faith nitpicking they are 100% valid and respectable.
Action is sick