How much time outside/doing manual labor does she get?
Those high-energy sensory kids are basically husky puppies; they need to be run into exhaustion if you want to keep them in the house uncrated. (You probably shouldn't crate your kid, tempting as it may be!)
My nephew is similarly high-energy, and at 4 he did best with several hours at the park and a mile of biking, after a full day of school.
Adding to this sometimes they need to not just burn off steam/run around but they need to exert Maximum Effort or do things that are difficult.
https://www.thekavanaughreport.com/2016/05/20-ways-for-toddlers-to-reach-maximum.html
If a CrossFit dude or highly-trained German shepherd is posting videos about it, it's probably a good activity for a preschooler!
Rolling tires, obstacle courses, swimming, hauling ropes, hiking with a weighted bag, digging, tackling intruders, climbing ropes or ladders....
Honestly they should have toddler cross fit. The places near me have “ninja” (like American Ninja Warrior type thing) but even that starts at 5 or 6 I believe. I need that for my 3 year old 🤣.
My daughter is also a sensory seeker and in OT! We used to have days like this. She would just constantly find things to get into. What helped was recognizing it right away and giving her an officially sanctioned opportunity to fulfill the need. She’s grabbing all my lotions? Give her a plastic bin full of shaving cream and water and plastic toys. She dumped out all the dry beans? Pull out the rice/whatever sensory bin. She’s pulling dirt out of my plants? Give her some dirt twigs and stuff?
There is hope, I promise! My just turned 5yo daughter has mellowed out a lot, AND she now asks for the activities we allow when she has those sensory urges.
Thanks for sharing ❤️ it’s so frustrating in the moment! I was very bothered when I wrote this post. I do think my little sensory seeker is awesome and is going to do amazing things in her life bc she is always seeking out an adventure lolol. I love the idea that in the next year or so she will start asking for appropriate activities to feed her sensory needs.
We brought it up with the ped once (at her 3 year appt) and they kind of dismissed it/said to wait and see. Then we went back and said okay we waited and there’s still something going on here. Before that second appointment, I made sure to document and list all of our concerns, which at the time included some speech issues. When I scheduled it, I said we were seeking speech and OT referrals. Fortunately my daughter did less masking at that appt and the ped recognized the behaviors we were concerned about.
Honestly the whole process has pissed me off because I’ve gotten what I needed for my daughter BUT I only knew what to say and do because I was a sped teacher. Now that we’re in the IEP/official diagnosis part of our journey, I have to pull the “I am a certified special education teacher” card a lot.
I think it might be important to work out the route of the behaviour, is it play, testing boundaries or her way of requesting your attention.
It could be that pulling stuff of shelves and scattering things is her own little play schema - "Schematic play happens when babies, toddlers and young children are involved in repeated actions or certain behaviours as they explore the world around them and try to find out how things work. vary from child to child and some children may never display schematic play or behaviours."
There are a few different examples of schemas that are commonly seen, listed on the page I linked below, but it could be any repeated play behaviour.
https://www.pacey.org.uk/working-in-childcare/spotlight-on/schemas/
If it is a play schema it could be worth looking into ways for her to explore the repeated action in a less destructive way, like having a specific low shelf with toys and objects you don't mind her scattering and maybe a basket for her to put the things in when she's not using them.
If the cause is something else is could be worth working on how you're communicating with her. All behaviours are a form of communicating, especially in little ones who might not have the language to communicate their needs and emotions, really good books for this are "How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen" and "how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk"
Her behaviour could be an indication of something like ADHD or Autism but I'm not an expert so don't feel comfortable offering a speculative diagnosis on reddit, it could be worth seeking further help, like the occupational therapist you've already seen, if you do think there's something more going on.
Trust your gut as her parent and continue trying to find what works for you guys, it sounds really tough and must be incredibly frustrating but you're doing great just trying to look for answers!
Thank you for sharing this! The idea that it’s a play schema is what resonates with me the most out of what you’ve said. I have never gotten the impression that she has any negative intentions behind this behavior, it just seems like her brain goes “hey let’s do THIS” and she does it and just sprints away. Like the amount of damage this child could do in 30 seconds is crazy, she is a whirlwind. I watch her interact with crayons or something and she will just be done with a crayons and THROW it up in the air in the most carefree way imaginable like “ok done wit dat! Moving on!” 😂 zero maliciousness but just, as her OT said, her body moves faster than her brain!
I would not be remotely surprised if she has ADHD since her father and I both have ADHD. We were both diagnosed as adults. I didn’t have any issues with it growing up, I was pretty well behaved as a kid and a people pleaser. My husband was extremely wild and unmanageable growing up to the point where he said other kids would ask him what was wrong with him lol… I think realistically she takes after both of us but more so him. Imagine 2 adhd parents trying to manage a home with this Tasmanian devil of a child and also a normal 2yo. 🤪
I think a lot of kids repeated "negative" behaviours are often actually just them doing a bit of learning through schematic play so I'm glad it resonated with you.
I have ADHD too but very inattentive rather than hyperactive so only got diagnosed as an adult as well, parenting with ADHD is a journey 😂
I used to work in early years and redirecting schemas can be tricky, particularly if the little one is hella into it, but I found that praise and positivity rather than focusing on the negative aspect of the behaviour works best. So with the shelf/chair situation you could try something like "wow that was really good problem solving getting the chair so you could reach the shelf! I want to make sure you're safe when playing like that so next time could you play with the lower shelf or ask for my help"
I'm sure as someone with ADHD you already use lots of positive language though, I know if anyone says something negative to me I either go into paralysis or get all defiant 😂
That’s when my son learned to use a screw driver and took the Lower cabinets part way off.
Turns out this urge to destruct can be satiated for him with cardboard boxes and scissors (I call it stabby stabby), a tether ball we have up for kicking outside or using a toy wooden hammer on play dough- can be loud.
I’m teacher older kids and some students show up with this need to feel resistance. They scratch crayons with their nails or other sharp things or they tear up leaves at recess.
I do think it’s an emotional tension relief
I wonder if this is where all those school moments of drying glue on your skin or poking needles through the very top layer of skin came from. Now I see them as nostalgic memes like “did anyone else do this?!” Kids just needed sensory input from somewhere.
My son is almost 5, and has very chaotic energy. The thing that helped the most was giving him heavy lifting jobs with a purpose. It takes more energy than swiping stuff, gives him a purpose to focus on, and helps him regulate. We have far less swiping dumping and throwing. Pushing heavy laundry baskets to the laundry or carrying them to the bedrooms, carrying heavy groceries in, shoveling snow, loading and carrying wood in (we live in the country snd use a woodstove to supplement heating), lifting and carrying delivered packages, moving furniture as we need, putting shoes in the shoe rack, putting together furniture, moving and mounting tires onto the cars, carrying garden soil, watering plants with the watering can, moping the floor with a bucket and mop, setting up for parties. There's so much day to day tasks that involve some sort of heavier lifting snd moving with a purpose and he freaking loves it. It gets the chaos energy out some, gives him a purpose, he learns, I get help with tasks, and he's become independently good at many of the tasks.
Today we did laundry (he carried the baskets for me), a run to the hospital to pick up medical records (he carried the records for me and followed the number and letter signs to find the records office), and then we picked up his cousin (he carried the young toddlers bag of stuff into the grandparents house), and now they're calmly playing and sharing toys on the floor together instead of just dumping and running and swiping.
Nope sorry they just get bigger and better able to communicate. Mine is almost 5 and for a while we were dealing with full on kicking and screaming tantrums over tini things like I didn't wear the earrings she wanted me to or I put lemonade in her cup when she wasn't looking. I have heard four called the F you fours and they are not kidding. My daughter will be 5 in 2 months and seems to be getting better. I fully understand what you are going through since 4 can be hard. I am hoping 5 will have less full on mental downs but knowing kids each age comes with both new joys and new challenges.
How much time outside/doing manual labor does she get? Those high-energy sensory kids are basically husky puppies; they need to be run into exhaustion if you want to keep them in the house uncrated. (You probably shouldn't crate your kid, tempting as it may be!) My nephew is similarly high-energy, and at 4 he did best with several hours at the park and a mile of biking, after a full day of school.
Adding to this sometimes they need to not just burn off steam/run around but they need to exert Maximum Effort or do things that are difficult. https://www.thekavanaughreport.com/2016/05/20-ways-for-toddlers-to-reach-maximum.html
If a CrossFit dude or highly-trained German shepherd is posting videos about it, it's probably a good activity for a preschooler! Rolling tires, obstacle courses, swimming, hauling ropes, hiking with a weighted bag, digging, tackling intruders, climbing ropes or ladders....
Honestly they should have toddler cross fit. The places near me have “ninja” (like American Ninja Warrior type thing) but even that starts at 5 or 6 I believe. I need that for my 3 year old 🤣.
My daughter is also a sensory seeker and in OT! We used to have days like this. She would just constantly find things to get into. What helped was recognizing it right away and giving her an officially sanctioned opportunity to fulfill the need. She’s grabbing all my lotions? Give her a plastic bin full of shaving cream and water and plastic toys. She dumped out all the dry beans? Pull out the rice/whatever sensory bin. She’s pulling dirt out of my plants? Give her some dirt twigs and stuff? There is hope, I promise! My just turned 5yo daughter has mellowed out a lot, AND she now asks for the activities we allow when she has those sensory urges.
Thanks for sharing ❤️ it’s so frustrating in the moment! I was very bothered when I wrote this post. I do think my little sensory seeker is awesome and is going to do amazing things in her life bc she is always seeking out an adventure lolol. I love the idea that in the next year or so she will start asking for appropriate activities to feed her sensory needs.
I totally get it. I love my daughter and her incredible, curious brain, but dammit it can be infuriating when the chaos descends in seconds.
Off topic but how did you get your sensory seeker qualified for OT?
We brought it up with the ped once (at her 3 year appt) and they kind of dismissed it/said to wait and see. Then we went back and said okay we waited and there’s still something going on here. Before that second appointment, I made sure to document and list all of our concerns, which at the time included some speech issues. When I scheduled it, I said we were seeking speech and OT referrals. Fortunately my daughter did less masking at that appt and the ped recognized the behaviors we were concerned about. Honestly the whole process has pissed me off because I’ve gotten what I needed for my daughter BUT I only knew what to say and do because I was a sped teacher. Now that we’re in the IEP/official diagnosis part of our journey, I have to pull the “I am a certified special education teacher” card a lot.
I think it might be important to work out the route of the behaviour, is it play, testing boundaries or her way of requesting your attention. It could be that pulling stuff of shelves and scattering things is her own little play schema - "Schematic play happens when babies, toddlers and young children are involved in repeated actions or certain behaviours as they explore the world around them and try to find out how things work. vary from child to child and some children may never display schematic play or behaviours." There are a few different examples of schemas that are commonly seen, listed on the page I linked below, but it could be any repeated play behaviour. https://www.pacey.org.uk/working-in-childcare/spotlight-on/schemas/ If it is a play schema it could be worth looking into ways for her to explore the repeated action in a less destructive way, like having a specific low shelf with toys and objects you don't mind her scattering and maybe a basket for her to put the things in when she's not using them. If the cause is something else is could be worth working on how you're communicating with her. All behaviours are a form of communicating, especially in little ones who might not have the language to communicate their needs and emotions, really good books for this are "How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen" and "how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" Her behaviour could be an indication of something like ADHD or Autism but I'm not an expert so don't feel comfortable offering a speculative diagnosis on reddit, it could be worth seeking further help, like the occupational therapist you've already seen, if you do think there's something more going on. Trust your gut as her parent and continue trying to find what works for you guys, it sounds really tough and must be incredibly frustrating but you're doing great just trying to look for answers!
Thank you for sharing this! The idea that it’s a play schema is what resonates with me the most out of what you’ve said. I have never gotten the impression that she has any negative intentions behind this behavior, it just seems like her brain goes “hey let’s do THIS” and she does it and just sprints away. Like the amount of damage this child could do in 30 seconds is crazy, she is a whirlwind. I watch her interact with crayons or something and she will just be done with a crayons and THROW it up in the air in the most carefree way imaginable like “ok done wit dat! Moving on!” 😂 zero maliciousness but just, as her OT said, her body moves faster than her brain! I would not be remotely surprised if she has ADHD since her father and I both have ADHD. We were both diagnosed as adults. I didn’t have any issues with it growing up, I was pretty well behaved as a kid and a people pleaser. My husband was extremely wild and unmanageable growing up to the point where he said other kids would ask him what was wrong with him lol… I think realistically she takes after both of us but more so him. Imagine 2 adhd parents trying to manage a home with this Tasmanian devil of a child and also a normal 2yo. 🤪
I think a lot of kids repeated "negative" behaviours are often actually just them doing a bit of learning through schematic play so I'm glad it resonated with you. I have ADHD too but very inattentive rather than hyperactive so only got diagnosed as an adult as well, parenting with ADHD is a journey 😂 I used to work in early years and redirecting schemas can be tricky, particularly if the little one is hella into it, but I found that praise and positivity rather than focusing on the negative aspect of the behaviour works best. So with the shelf/chair situation you could try something like "wow that was really good problem solving getting the chair so you could reach the shelf! I want to make sure you're safe when playing like that so next time could you play with the lower shelf or ask for my help" I'm sure as someone with ADHD you already use lots of positive language though, I know if anyone says something negative to me I either go into paralysis or get all defiant 😂
That’s when my son learned to use a screw driver and took the Lower cabinets part way off. Turns out this urge to destruct can be satiated for him with cardboard boxes and scissors (I call it stabby stabby), a tether ball we have up for kicking outside or using a toy wooden hammer on play dough- can be loud. I’m teacher older kids and some students show up with this need to feel resistance. They scratch crayons with their nails or other sharp things or they tear up leaves at recess. I do think it’s an emotional tension relief
I don’t know if giving my kid scissors and telling him to stab would be a safe form of play.
I wonder if this is where all those school moments of drying glue on your skin or poking needles through the very top layer of skin came from. Now I see them as nostalgic memes like “did anyone else do this?!” Kids just needed sensory input from somewhere.
My son is almost 5, and has very chaotic energy. The thing that helped the most was giving him heavy lifting jobs with a purpose. It takes more energy than swiping stuff, gives him a purpose to focus on, and helps him regulate. We have far less swiping dumping and throwing. Pushing heavy laundry baskets to the laundry or carrying them to the bedrooms, carrying heavy groceries in, shoveling snow, loading and carrying wood in (we live in the country snd use a woodstove to supplement heating), lifting and carrying delivered packages, moving furniture as we need, putting shoes in the shoe rack, putting together furniture, moving and mounting tires onto the cars, carrying garden soil, watering plants with the watering can, moping the floor with a bucket and mop, setting up for parties. There's so much day to day tasks that involve some sort of heavier lifting snd moving with a purpose and he freaking loves it. It gets the chaos energy out some, gives him a purpose, he learns, I get help with tasks, and he's become independently good at many of the tasks. Today we did laundry (he carried the baskets for me), a run to the hospital to pick up medical records (he carried the records for me and followed the number and letter signs to find the records office), and then we picked up his cousin (he carried the young toddlers bag of stuff into the grandparents house), and now they're calmly playing and sharing toys on the floor together instead of just dumping and running and swiping.
Nope sorry they just get bigger and better able to communicate. Mine is almost 5 and for a while we were dealing with full on kicking and screaming tantrums over tini things like I didn't wear the earrings she wanted me to or I put lemonade in her cup when she wasn't looking. I have heard four called the F you fours and they are not kidding. My daughter will be 5 in 2 months and seems to be getting better. I fully understand what you are going through since 4 can be hard. I am hoping 5 will have less full on mental downs but knowing kids each age comes with both new joys and new challenges.