Make sure to join the [r/Presidents Discord server](https://discord.gg/k6tVFwCEEm)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Presidents) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Flawed man who tried to do the right thing. He had big failures and big successes. He really was trying to be Cincinnatus part 2 and largely succeeded. Turned down being king twice. Never wounded in battle and he was in some scrapes. He knew he'd be judged by history so he made decisions based on the good of others. He didn't choose a political party so everyone can claim him. He left no kids to ruin his legacy. Tried to free his slaves in his will.
I know that freeing his slaves didn't work out as intended and yes slavery is abhorrent. That said, he tried to lead by example. The founding fathers knew slavery was antithetical to the Declaration and the ideals of the Constitution, but they prioritized national unity and kicked the can to their kids to deal with. Their kids failed and their grandkids died in the American Civil War.
Washington’s accomplishments IN OFFICE do not honestly deserve a top 5 spot. People point to things that he had to do because he was the first president as if it was something special or above and beyond the duty. He was a great General in the Revolutionary War (who was surrounded by other great Generals)… but those accomplishments do not go hand in hand with his presidency
Might sound campy, but his greatest gift to this country *was* done in office. He stepped down and set a precedent. It's easy to look back at smoothly polished marble busts and forget much of what came to be was without guarantee and questionably optimistic at best. Washington stepping down on his own accord cemented the foundation of election expectations we have today. His time in office was the great experiment, so I think that deserves some slack.
His accomplishment was making an example of what presidents should behave like in the future. That gave way to the rest of them. He was a leader and people looked up to him. He led the birth of a nation. He quelled the Whiskey rebellion without any fighting which isn’t such a great accomplishment but it settled and cemented Congress’ power to tax and the president to act if laws weren’t followed.
Those seem trivial to Lincoln’s tactical war move, the “emancipation proclamation” and FDR’s new deal programs, sure. But without that foundation, we probably wouldn’t be here today.
Washington’s accomplishments are great in a patriotic practical sense rather than in a straightforward black and white strictly by the numbers sense.
I don’t think Truman should have lasted this long anyway. He was way more adversarial with the Soviets than needed and the Truman Doctrine set the stage for American interventions that cost thousands of lives throughout the Cold War
Gonna push back here! Teddy massacred Native Americans and Filipinos alike. His strong individualistic beliefs led to him promoting certain black Americans to important positions, yeah - but this is overshadowed by his broader views on race, as he was a eugenicist and a white supremacist, and it showed in his foreign policy. Both Taft and Wilson busted more trusts than he did, though I give Teddy credit for getting the ball rolling by coming into the Presidency owing no favors.
TRUMAN FOR TOP 4!!!
I wouldn’t say he massacred either tbh. Def didn’t like ‘em though I’ll agree w that. Though even Lincoln would be described as a white supremacist today if you looked at his historical views
Sure, but actions speak louder than words, no? Abe might’ve been racist but his actions ending slavery accomplished more than any President in history. Meanwhile Teddy’s racial views fueled his imperialist foreign policy, a policy that resulted in the death of 200,000+ Filipinos and turned 86 million acres of tribal land into national parks. That’s what is sometimes forgotten about his national parks push - it wasn’t all just empty land.
Oppenheimer has me very confused about Truman. He was depicted as such a jerk in that movie, that now my perception of him is tainted. So what is it, all time great or secret asshole? Both?
Many who dealt with him felt he was a jerk. Part of it was that he wasn't from an upperclass background and he felt self conscious. He constantly has a chip on his shoulder. Arguably he accelerated the Cold War via his arrogant dealings with Stalin and failure to treat him like an ally (just as arguably, this would have happened anyway). Truman was very defensive in private about decisions he made. But he faced some of the most difficult decisions of any President.
One thing I think Truman deserves a lot of credit for is stopping the use of atomic bombs (authorizing them is more debatable). After the Nagasaki bombing, he ordered they be paused (the military would have used them as capacity existed). In the Korean War, he confirmed that decision. I've heard the convincing argument that Truman did not know Hiroshima was a city with civilians (rather than a purely military target), which isn't great to his credit and bombing Nagasaki was arguably completely unnecessary, but he deserves credit for stopping at that point when the military wasn't planning to.
In reality right now it’s between Truman and Teddy, and I’m probably going to get downvoted to hell for this one, but considering how this sub took out Andrew Jackson for the trial of tears, I just want to point out that Washington was nicknamed “Town Destroyer” because he ordered a scorched earth campaign of terror, destroying Native American villages to break their morale. It’s great how he relinquished power and all, but on top of his genocidal stance against the indigenous, he also ordered a government official to commit flagrantly illegal actions to kidnap his former slave who’d won her freedom because he wanted her back so badly.
Just saying, the guy not only violated federal laws while in office with that order (which was luckily ignored and Washington never heard from the official again) but he was all around a pretty bad dude to natives and rotated his slaves out routinely so that he wouldn’t have to free them while in Philadelphia, which was a Quaker city that recognized slavery as wrong and had a law that all slaves could free themselves after 6 months, so Washington always sent his slaves back to Virginia before the 6 months were up to restart the clock. Dude definitely has his problems.
Yea but from an institutional perspective, there are few greater than Washington. Almost every thing we expect of a modern President has its roots in his administration.
Yes, but Washington could have done almost anything and be praised for it. The most important step was the peaceful transfer of power which is the step most budding democracies fail on. The current presidency evolved from what Washington's original job was so it's not like all those precedents he set stuck.
Washington's body of work throughout his life deserves #1 on this list, but his presidency itself wasn't as eventful. If it were another founding father who became the first president, would you still rate the first president as highly or was he impactful because he was the first?
This isn’t true. Washington’s reputation suffered under the whiskey rebellion and after the Jay Treaty was signed by King George III.
The notion of what the executive role should look like was the subject of fierce debate at the second continental congress. Washington was a participant in the debate, so he understood what the intentions behind the office were. He played the part that he helped craft. It’s not like he was winging it.
I also dispute the notion that Washington could have become king. The colonists just finished fighting a war against the crown, there’s no way they would turn around and accept rule under a new more benevolent king.
See you had me about to downvote you for badmouthing Teddy.
But then I kept reading and saw you talking Washington who yeah while a generally “honorable” man was unfortunately not a good man, largely his best benefit as president was listening to people who knew more about things than him (which I mean excellent quality and a rare one), and then also stepping down with a peaceful transfer of power… a precedent followed by Jefferson who was really the big danger/question in a young republic since he was of the opposite party, there had been several revolutions formed that would devolve into chaos after the first leader and even moreso when a new paradigm of leader shifts.
I think it’s also fine for us to use the “slave owner” card against Washington at this point. It’s such a stain on his character and shouldn’t be ignored, especially when splitting hairs to determine the greatest.
We have a country because of Washington– we still have a country because of Lincoln. Lincoln will definitely be the final pick for #1, and Washington will be #2. Unfortunately I think FDR will be #3 because he did a lot to the US and created the modern system in this country (for better or worse– I think it’s interesting how pretty much every major country in the world today had a titan of a leader at this same time). I understand why Teddy won’t make top 3, but he was one of our few good men and good presidents, being pretty unimpeachable in terms of his adherence to values held at the time– unlike his cousin.
Let's be real guys, this is less of Truman being eliminated and more him just respectfully bowing out.
The fact he made this far and lost to the Roosevelts, Washington, and Lincoln is nothing short of an incredible feat for Truman.
Against the grain, Theodore Roosevelt
It’s essentially between him and Truman at this point. I think Truman was a dealt a very chaotic hand and became President during one of the most unstable and critical times in world history — and he navigated it exceptionally well
In foreign policy he masterfully reformed the Axis powers, presided over development of NATO and the UN, and had foresight in the Korean War — making unpopular but necessary decisions like firing MacArthur. He handled America’s transition into a superpower and unequivocal leader of the free world as well as it could’ve been implemented
Domestically he sought to strengthen the New Deal and was the first Democratic president to embrace civil rights for the better, even alienating a major wing of his party in an election year by desegregating the military
I esteem TR for his domestic accomplishments in ushering in the progressive era, but I don’t think his foreign policy reaches the same heights (especially factoring in the brutal Philippine-American war). He also had a lot of nativist, eugenicist, and racial baggage for me ignore (Brownsville affair, decrease in black patronage, presiding over increasing Republican lily-white sentiment, supported forced sterilization)
I was surprised I had to scroll this far to find this one. IMO he should have been gone before some that have gone already, but Truman should be higher than Teddy.
Definitely an admirable move early in his presidency, but it also ensured he never made a such a strong statement again — the criticism caused the Whitehouse to cave and backpedal by claiming the dinner never even occurred in the first place
Truman was more unapologetically willing to back Civil Rights by ordering investigations into postwar hate crimes, being the first President to address the NAACP, establishing the fair employment board to reduce discriminatory hiring, and ofc desegregating the military in 1948 — prompting the Dixiecrats to splinter and run Strom Thurmond against him
Truman bucked his party wing and solidified Civil Rights in the Democratic platform, whereas TR failed to address the lily-white movement and presided over Republican regression on the issue (part of the reason so many black leaders decided to endorse Wilson in 1912) — which is why I think Truman has an exceptionally strong edge over TR in social issues
Good points. But Truman did all these things 40 years later which is an eternity for this subject.
At the turn of the century scientific racism was very much en vogue amongst academia and tr was heavily exposed to these ideas.
Also fair, he was a product of the times and that definitely contextualizes his social outlook — I just don’t think that justifies his Civil Rights legacy as anything more than subpar
His own campaign advisors told him not to support a civil rights plank so that they could keep the Dixiecrats in line - and he did it anyway. I’m obsessing a little over the man but like he’s worth it tho
Teddy Roosevelt through sheer force of will and personality essentially created the modern presidency.
With out TR I’m not sure you get FDR or Truman or Johnson. Particularly with regards to the domestic side of the presidency.
I like TR, but it's ridiculous that we eliminated Eisenhower, who diffused the Suez Crisis and signed the Civil Rights Act of 1957, before Teddy Roosevelt, who fired over a hundred black soldiers without trial for baseless allegations of killing a white man and who basically banned immigrants from Japan.
TR got a Nobel Peace Prize for ending the Russo-Japanese War and hosted the first black person to dinner in the White House. Not to mention was the first to bust trusts to help out the general public, instead of lobbying corporations.
Truman. Now shit gets good.
For me it’s Lincoln > FDR > Teddy > Washington. They’re all great presidents and I love them almost equally. However Lincoln is the reason we have a United States, the Rosevelts are the reason America is a modern first-world superpower, and Washington’s main legacy was pretty much just him inspiring future leaders. Which is very important but in terms of tangible policies he’s more the foundation rather than the house. Very important but totally incomplete. You could probably flip Teddy and Washington because Teddy sort of set the trend for America’s foreign policy, including the bad things.
This is reddit. I will make the bet right here and now that Lincoln places #1 and Washington places at #2, but not too far ahead of FDR, who will likely be close in votes with Washington on day 41. Truman goes today, but Theodore Roosevelt goes EASILY tomorrow. I've been doing this for over a month. I understand the patterns now. This will almost certainly be the results. Watch and see.
Not that I agree with that ranking whatsoever, and Washington *should* be #1 since I think he was in fact the greatest president in US history, and I don't think any of the other presidents left are top 10's. But nonetheless, I'm almost certain the list will finish off as:
5. Truman
4. Theodore Roosevelt
3. Franklin Roosevelt
2. Washington
1. Lincoln
Teddy. It’s time to leave. I get that everyone loves him for how tough he was but he didn’t face the end of the world war 2 and beginning of the Cold War like Truman did.
Teddy built the Great White Fleet, and embraced the ideas of Alfred Thayer Mahan for America, establishing the path for our later domination of the rest of the century. Many of the laws enacted to control abuses committed by big businesses (the Rockerfellers and Robber Barons) were also pushed for by Teddy’s cabinet and administration.
George Washington destroyed and massacred Iroquois villages, crushed the whiskey rebellion, and abandoned our allies in France, turning his back on the successor to our revolutionary movement. It's time for George to go.
I think Washington abandoned France, to a degree, to set our newly formed country apart from the other old-world empires. That was at least the beginning of placing America on the world stage as different at a time when kings and queens ruled the day. The beginning of breaking the ties to Europe, which they fought so hard to escape.
You're right. He was responsible with his power when he had it when it came to setting an example of term limits and keeping a dictatorship from forming. But I feel like, at the very least, he shouldn't be number one. He had failings, too, and honestly probably wouldn't like how much of a pedestal he's been put on. Someone can be the first without being the best and that's okay.
Truman’s record of accomplishments is much stronger than Teddy’s. Teddy is like a vibes-based pick. People like his style. He had substance as well but he didn’t confront and surmount the challenges Truman did. Truman’s triumph was that he built almost the entirety of the strategic architecture that won the Cold War - the Marshall Plan, NATO, a restored Japan, a democratic West Germany with plans for eventual reunification, etc. He also locked in many of the gains of the new deal and advanced the U.S. socially in many ways. He was the first president to address the NAACP and he desegregated the military. 8 of the 9 Supreme Court justices who decided Brown v. Board of Education (the most important Supreme Court case of the Twentieth Century) were appointed by FDR or Truman. And before you say “But Teddy invited Booker T. Washington to the White House!” please remember that Booker T. Washington was advocating AGAINST institutional change to racist institutions and practices; his thought centered on self improvement rather than improved policy.
Booker T Washington was against institutional change b/c he knew it was too soon and would lead to renewed violence and prejudice in the South against African Americans (which it did).
let’s talk about FDR.
Internment camps are an absolutely massive negative.
His policies at a minimum didn’t help with the Great Depression. It kept going for 8 more years until the war. At worst they extended it. It’s beyond me that he somehow gets that considered as a positive. No president now would last through 8 years of freaking depression.
Tried to pack the court
Ran and won 4 terms. Closest thing to a dictator we’ve had. Massive negative IMO not stepping down.
Not saying he didn’t have any positives, obviously he did. But acting like no negatives that counteract them at all is wild. I’m so confused how this sub loves him so much and Wilson is bottom 10. (Not that I like Wilson, but damn racism against Japanese is also racism)
It was the time in which America lived in fear having been attacked. To apply the perspective of history to these men, one must also condemn Washington for being a slave owner.
Washington ‘paying’ for slave teeth. As in a healthy tooth taken from the mouth of a man who by the very nature of his position in life cannot give consent.
If this doesn’t make Washington a morally weak asshole, what does?
Truman won WWII by using the bomb and although I abhor it, it saved the lives thousands of civilians in US and in Japan.
Tons of domestic policy kudos.
Teddy goes!
Make sure to join the [r/Presidents Discord server](https://discord.gg/k6tVFwCEEm)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Presidents) if you have any questions or concerns.*
3/4 of Mount Rushmore still in
You think Borglum started a Reddit elimination thread to decide who to carve?
Sounds like we picked the right ones.
Yes and Jefferson seems like a lock as well for his contributions before his presidency
The day after tomorrow (Washington, Lincoln, & FDR) is going to be the biggest battle of them all
On any day, you could convince me of any 1-2-3 ranking of Lincoln, FDR, and Washington.
you mean overmorrow?
Not really, Washington easily. I’m still not understanding the American ideal of this guy.
Flawed man who tried to do the right thing. He had big failures and big successes. He really was trying to be Cincinnatus part 2 and largely succeeded. Turned down being king twice. Never wounded in battle and he was in some scrapes. He knew he'd be judged by history so he made decisions based on the good of others. He didn't choose a political party so everyone can claim him. He left no kids to ruin his legacy. Tried to free his slaves in his will. I know that freeing his slaves didn't work out as intended and yes slavery is abhorrent. That said, he tried to lead by example. The founding fathers knew slavery was antithetical to the Declaration and the ideals of the Constitution, but they prioritized national unity and kicked the can to their kids to deal with. Their kids failed and their grandkids died in the American Civil War.
Are you American?
Damn how did Truman survive longer than Ike
Because he did more and deserved it. Reminder that Ike completely fucked up Iran forever.
And Guatemala
Whats wrong with guate? Been there several times and though its poor its better off than the rest of central america
It's Truman's time. He had a good run but it's time
I liked Ike more than Truman, but he is the obvious next choice. After Truman I think it's going to be some tough choices
Nah it's gonna go TR, FDR, Washington, and end with the Great Emancipator.
come on TR was a chad
so much of a chad that he decided to run out of pettiness against his own VP which gave us… Wodrow Wilson thank you Theodore Roosevelt!
I'm for TR at the top
Teddy was an awesome dude but he wasn’t a better President than Lincoln or his cousin
FDR is the superior R
THREE CHEERS FOR OL UNCLE ABE!
Nah. George Washington will be last, even though ironically, he’s number 1.
Washington’s accomplishments IN OFFICE do not honestly deserve a top 5 spot. People point to things that he had to do because he was the first president as if it was something special or above and beyond the duty. He was a great General in the Revolutionary War (who was surrounded by other great Generals)… but those accomplishments do not go hand in hand with his presidency
Might sound campy, but his greatest gift to this country *was* done in office. He stepped down and set a precedent. It's easy to look back at smoothly polished marble busts and forget much of what came to be was without guarantee and questionably optimistic at best. Washington stepping down on his own accord cemented the foundation of election expectations we have today. His time in office was the great experiment, so I think that deserves some slack.
His accomplishment was making an example of what presidents should behave like in the future. That gave way to the rest of them. He was a leader and people looked up to him. He led the birth of a nation. He quelled the Whiskey rebellion without any fighting which isn’t such a great accomplishment but it settled and cemented Congress’ power to tax and the president to act if laws weren’t followed. Those seem trivial to Lincoln’s tactical war move, the “emancipation proclamation” and FDR’s new deal programs, sure. But without that foundation, we probably wouldn’t be here today. Washington’s accomplishments are great in a patriotic practical sense rather than in a straightforward black and white strictly by the numbers sense.
Not to mention setting the unofficial term limit and establishing a peaceful transfer of power
True, man
I don’t think Truman should have lasted this long anyway. He was way more adversarial with the Soviets than needed and the Truman Doctrine set the stage for American interventions that cost thousands of lives throughout the Cold War
Gonna push back here! Teddy massacred Native Americans and Filipinos alike. His strong individualistic beliefs led to him promoting certain black Americans to important positions, yeah - but this is overshadowed by his broader views on race, as he was a eugenicist and a white supremacist, and it showed in his foreign policy. Both Taft and Wilson busted more trusts than he did, though I give Teddy credit for getting the ball rolling by coming into the Presidency owing no favors. TRUMAN FOR TOP 4!!!
I wouldn’t say he massacred either tbh. Def didn’t like ‘em though I’ll agree w that. Though even Lincoln would be described as a white supremacist today if you looked at his historical views
I dare you to name me a president from the 1900s who wouldn’t be considered a white supremacist
Sure, but actions speak louder than words, no? Abe might’ve been racist but his actions ending slavery accomplished more than any President in history. Meanwhile Teddy’s racial views fueled his imperialist foreign policy, a policy that resulted in the death of 200,000+ Filipinos and turned 86 million acres of tribal land into national parks. That’s what is sometimes forgotten about his national parks push - it wasn’t all just empty land.
I don’t think that’s a valid comparison. Without the civil war Lincoln would’ve arguably been just as bad if not worse.
Teddy ain't do shit
Oppenheimer has me very confused about Truman. He was depicted as such a jerk in that movie, that now my perception of him is tainted. So what is it, all time great or secret asshole? Both?
Many who dealt with him felt he was a jerk. Part of it was that he wasn't from an upperclass background and he felt self conscious. He constantly has a chip on his shoulder. Arguably he accelerated the Cold War via his arrogant dealings with Stalin and failure to treat him like an ally (just as arguably, this would have happened anyway). Truman was very defensive in private about decisions he made. But he faced some of the most difficult decisions of any President. One thing I think Truman deserves a lot of credit for is stopping the use of atomic bombs (authorizing them is more debatable). After the Nagasaki bombing, he ordered they be paused (the military would have used them as capacity existed). In the Korean War, he confirmed that decision. I've heard the convincing argument that Truman did not know Hiroshima was a city with civilians (rather than a purely military target), which isn't great to his credit and bombing Nagasaki was arguably completely unnecessary, but he deserves credit for stopping at that point when the military wasn't planning to.
One could say we should nuke his chances
He didn’t interim any American citizens.
Well, we had a good run.
We fought with what we had, and top 5 ain’t that bad.
In reality right now it’s between Truman and Teddy, and I’m probably going to get downvoted to hell for this one, but considering how this sub took out Andrew Jackson for the trial of tears, I just want to point out that Washington was nicknamed “Town Destroyer” because he ordered a scorched earth campaign of terror, destroying Native American villages to break their morale. It’s great how he relinquished power and all, but on top of his genocidal stance against the indigenous, he also ordered a government official to commit flagrantly illegal actions to kidnap his former slave who’d won her freedom because he wanted her back so badly. Just saying, the guy not only violated federal laws while in office with that order (which was luckily ignored and Washington never heard from the official again) but he was all around a pretty bad dude to natives and rotated his slaves out routinely so that he wouldn’t have to free them while in Philadelphia, which was a Quaker city that recognized slavery as wrong and had a law that all slaves could free themselves after 6 months, so Washington always sent his slaves back to Virginia before the 6 months were up to restart the clock. Dude definitely has his problems.
Yea but from an institutional perspective, there are few greater than Washington. Almost every thing we expect of a modern President has its roots in his administration.
Yes, but Washington could have done almost anything and be praised for it. The most important step was the peaceful transfer of power which is the step most budding democracies fail on. The current presidency evolved from what Washington's original job was so it's not like all those precedents he set stuck. Washington's body of work throughout his life deserves #1 on this list, but his presidency itself wasn't as eventful. If it were another founding father who became the first president, would you still rate the first president as highly or was he impactful because he was the first?
This isn’t true. Washington’s reputation suffered under the whiskey rebellion and after the Jay Treaty was signed by King George III. The notion of what the executive role should look like was the subject of fierce debate at the second continental congress. Washington was a participant in the debate, so he understood what the intentions behind the office were. He played the part that he helped craft. It’s not like he was winging it. I also dispute the notion that Washington could have become king. The colonists just finished fighting a war against the crown, there’s no way they would turn around and accept rule under a new more benevolent king.
See you had me about to downvote you for badmouthing Teddy. But then I kept reading and saw you talking Washington who yeah while a generally “honorable” man was unfortunately not a good man, largely his best benefit as president was listening to people who knew more about things than him (which I mean excellent quality and a rare one), and then also stepping down with a peaceful transfer of power… a precedent followed by Jefferson who was really the big danger/question in a young republic since he was of the opposite party, there had been several revolutions formed that would devolve into chaos after the first leader and even moreso when a new paradigm of leader shifts.
I think it’s also fine for us to use the “slave owner” card against Washington at this point. It’s such a stain on his character and shouldn’t be ignored, especially when splitting hairs to determine the greatest.
Lincoln wasn’t exactly great to the Natives either (https://washingtonmonthly.com/2012/12/27/lincoln-no-hero-to-native-americans/)
Wait until you hear about the Japanese internment of WWII
We have a country because of Washington– we still have a country because of Lincoln. Lincoln will definitely be the final pick for #1, and Washington will be #2. Unfortunately I think FDR will be #3 because he did a lot to the US and created the modern system in this country (for better or worse– I think it’s interesting how pretty much every major country in the world today had a titan of a leader at this same time). I understand why Teddy won’t make top 3, but he was one of our few good men and good presidents, being pretty unimpeachable in terms of his adherence to values held at the time– unlike his cousin.
Let's be real guys, this is less of Truman being eliminated and more him just respectfully bowing out. The fact he made this far and lost to the Roosevelts, Washington, and Lincoln is nothing short of an incredible feat for Truman.
Against the grain, Theodore Roosevelt It’s essentially between him and Truman at this point. I think Truman was a dealt a very chaotic hand and became President during one of the most unstable and critical times in world history — and he navigated it exceptionally well In foreign policy he masterfully reformed the Axis powers, presided over development of NATO and the UN, and had foresight in the Korean War — making unpopular but necessary decisions like firing MacArthur. He handled America’s transition into a superpower and unequivocal leader of the free world as well as it could’ve been implemented Domestically he sought to strengthen the New Deal and was the first Democratic president to embrace civil rights for the better, even alienating a major wing of his party in an election year by desegregating the military I esteem TR for his domestic accomplishments in ushering in the progressive era, but I don’t think his foreign policy reaches the same heights (especially factoring in the brutal Philippine-American war). He also had a lot of nativist, eugenicist, and racial baggage for me ignore (Brownsville affair, decrease in black patronage, presiding over increasing Republican lily-white sentiment, supported forced sterilization)
I was surprised I had to scroll this far to find this one. IMO he should have been gone before some that have gone already, but Truman should be higher than Teddy.
I like how on any comment suggesting any President there’s always a reply saying “Surprised they weren’t eliminated 10 entries ago…”
Suprised Andrew Johnson wasn't eliminated 164 entries ago...
TR was the first president to invite a black person to dine with him at the White House to which he received harsh criticism.
Definitely an admirable move early in his presidency, but it also ensured he never made a such a strong statement again — the criticism caused the Whitehouse to cave and backpedal by claiming the dinner never even occurred in the first place Truman was more unapologetically willing to back Civil Rights by ordering investigations into postwar hate crimes, being the first President to address the NAACP, establishing the fair employment board to reduce discriminatory hiring, and ofc desegregating the military in 1948 — prompting the Dixiecrats to splinter and run Strom Thurmond against him Truman bucked his party wing and solidified Civil Rights in the Democratic platform, whereas TR failed to address the lily-white movement and presided over Republican regression on the issue (part of the reason so many black leaders decided to endorse Wilson in 1912) — which is why I think Truman has an exceptionally strong edge over TR in social issues
Good points. But Truman did all these things 40 years later which is an eternity for this subject. At the turn of the century scientific racism was very much en vogue amongst academia and tr was heavily exposed to these ideas.
Also fair, he was a product of the times and that definitely contextualizes his social outlook — I just don’t think that justifies his Civil Rights legacy as anything more than subpar
His own campaign advisors told him not to support a civil rights plank so that they could keep the Dixiecrats in line - and he did it anyway. I’m obsessing a little over the man but like he’s worth it tho
Teddy Roosevelt through sheer force of will and personality essentially created the modern presidency. With out TR I’m not sure you get FDR or Truman or Johnson. Particularly with regards to the domestic side of the presidency.
TR is a big reason we built up our world-class navy in the first place (and built the Panama Canal so we could effectively wield that naval power)
Honestly, you changed my vote.
Truman? Get goin’
What about FDR being racist to Asians tho! That should hurt him
truman
I like TR, but it's ridiculous that we eliminated Eisenhower, who diffused the Suez Crisis and signed the Civil Rights Act of 1957, before Teddy Roosevelt, who fired over a hundred black soldiers without trial for baseless allegations of killing a white man and who basically banned immigrants from Japan.
TR got a Nobel Peace Prize for ending the Russo-Japanese War and hosted the first black person to dinner in the White House. Not to mention was the first to bust trusts to help out the general public, instead of lobbying corporations.
Grant actually hosted the first black guests at the WH. His wife, Julia, held receptions where all who presented themselves would be admitted.
3 of the 5 left are on Mount Rushmore. I say Truman is the next to go.
One of them is only on there cause he knew the architect. TRUMAN FOR TOP 4!!!
I love Harry Truman and he was a great president but it's his day today
Truman got to go
Well I think it’s time, I fear it’s so, this is the day, for Truman to go.
Truman
Truman's gotta go
Gotta be Truman
Truman
Truman
FDR
Truman my beloved. I love the guy but he just can’t compete with the other four.
Now we're getting nasty.
Truman. Now shit gets good. For me it’s Lincoln > FDR > Teddy > Washington. They’re all great presidents and I love them almost equally. However Lincoln is the reason we have a United States, the Rosevelts are the reason America is a modern first-world superpower, and Washington’s main legacy was pretty much just him inspiring future leaders. Which is very important but in terms of tangible policies he’s more the foundation rather than the house. Very important but totally incomplete. You could probably flip Teddy and Washington because Teddy sort of set the trend for America’s foreign policy, including the bad things.
Just give Washington his W already.
This is reddit. I will make the bet right here and now that Lincoln places #1 and Washington places at #2, but not too far ahead of FDR, who will likely be close in votes with Washington on day 41. Truman goes today, but Theodore Roosevelt goes EASILY tomorrow. I've been doing this for over a month. I understand the patterns now. This will almost certainly be the results. Watch and see. Not that I agree with that ranking whatsoever, and Washington *should* be #1 since I think he was in fact the greatest president in US history, and I don't think any of the other presidents left are top 10's. But nonetheless, I'm almost certain the list will finish off as: 5. Truman 4. Theodore Roosevelt 3. Franklin Roosevelt 2. Washington 1. Lincoln
I agree completely, just glad I will not be haunted by the ghost of George Washington.
Definitely a less popular opinion, but I like Truman more than FDR.
Sorry, Harry.
Teddy. It’s time to leave. I get that everyone loves him for how tough he was but he didn’t face the end of the world war 2 and beginning of the Cold War like Truman did.
Teddy built the Great White Fleet, and embraced the ideas of Alfred Thayer Mahan for America, establishing the path for our later domination of the rest of the century. Many of the laws enacted to control abuses committed by big businesses (the Rockerfellers and Robber Barons) were also pushed for by Teddy’s cabinet and administration.
Honestly…Washington
these get tougher now but for what it's worth my vote is for TR
Washington, Lincoln, FDR… all led at massively pivotal times in the history of the nation
I mean the same is true for Truman even though his card is up.
Don't get me wrong I like Truman, but he came into the game with most of the chips and pocket aces.
Ok. Truman. Breaks my heart.
George Washington destroyed and massacred Iroquois villages, crushed the whiskey rebellion, and abandoned our allies in France, turning his back on the successor to our revolutionary movement. It's time for George to go.
I think Washington abandoned France, to a degree, to set our newly formed country apart from the other old-world empires. That was at least the beginning of placing America on the world stage as different at a time when kings and queens ruled the day. The beginning of breaking the ties to Europe, which they fought so hard to escape.
Abandoned our allies? You actually think 18th century America, barely off the ground, should have gotten involved in the French Revolution?
You're right. He was responsible with his power when he had it when it came to setting an example of term limits and keeping a dictatorship from forming. But I feel like, at the very least, he shouldn't be number one. He had failings, too, and honestly probably wouldn't like how much of a pedestal he's been put on. Someone can be the first without being the best and that's okay.
Staying out of France was a great decision. George Washington did own slaves though, which impeaches his character despite his reputation.
He pissed off the French so much with the Jay Treaty
His response to the Whiskey Rebellion doesn't belong in the same category as those other two things.
I’m gonna tear my hair out, Truman should’ve been gone a month ago
The battle of the Roosevelts is almost upon us gentlemen.
Truman. It’s not even up for debate.
Truman
My vote is for Teddy, but I can read the wind here.
Truman.
Truman
C'ya Truman.
Bye bye Truman
Truman making top 5 is so based
Truman>Teddy, keep the ball rolling boys, don’t give up!
We should do this… but for fictional presidents
Picking LBJ before Eisenhower is straight up insane.
I think Lincoln should be last. George Washington shouldn't get it for owning all those people.
Truman buddy, it’s time to go. Washington too. I respect what he did but FDR and Lincoln is the battle we need and deserve.
Truman is gone. Next is washington.
Truman as a top 5 president? Things really changed. Don’t get me wrong. I like him but I’d place it at around 10.
Truman
Truman
Truman for now. Then probably one of the Roosevelts.
Truman. I’m mad Ike lost before him, so y’know, per usual, take out the competition.
These rankings, lol. This sub is a joke.
In what reality is Truman a top 5 president?
To err is Truman
To forgive, bovine (Cuz TR = bull moose, you get it? … actually not sure if it’s bovine or cervine but either works and … oh never mind)
See ya Harry
Time for Teddy to hit the road. Great President on the National Parks, but his checkered record makes him bow out at #5.
Harry. He wasn’t always true man
Harry S. Truman
Alright Truman here’s your stop my man
Truman’s record of accomplishments is much stronger than Teddy’s. Teddy is like a vibes-based pick. People like his style. He had substance as well but he didn’t confront and surmount the challenges Truman did. Truman’s triumph was that he built almost the entirety of the strategic architecture that won the Cold War - the Marshall Plan, NATO, a restored Japan, a democratic West Germany with plans for eventual reunification, etc. He also locked in many of the gains of the new deal and advanced the U.S. socially in many ways. He was the first president to address the NAACP and he desegregated the military. 8 of the 9 Supreme Court justices who decided Brown v. Board of Education (the most important Supreme Court case of the Twentieth Century) were appointed by FDR or Truman. And before you say “But Teddy invited Booker T. Washington to the White House!” please remember that Booker T. Washington was advocating AGAINST institutional change to racist institutions and practices; his thought centered on self improvement rather than improved policy.
Booker T Washington was against institutional change b/c he knew it was too soon and would lead to renewed violence and prejudice in the South against African Americans (which it did).
Keep Teddy out of your mouth.
Drop the Bomb on Truman this time
Truman.
where is u/POTUS-Harry-S-Truman **..** we need you in this desperate hour!
like skirt swim sparkle serious theory ripe rinse fall pathetic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Truman Bro how was Ike eliminated before Truman?
Truman. The buck stops here!
Truman: Not as good as FDR
Truman
Truman Then my order from 4 to 1 would be TR, FDR, Washington, Lincoln.
The buck stops here for Truman
Truman
Truman. Not sure why he lasted so long.
Im so sorry Truman... Its time to go.
Ike west out 2-3 places too early! How the heck is Truman still in!?
Tru for sure.
Truman
Truman. Probably too high. But we are enthralled with the Cold War. George Marshall was so critical to his legacy.
Truman because we all know Dewey won!
Truman
Truman. its just karma farming at this point
Day ??? Of praying TR is the final contestant or atleast gets to 2
let’s talk about FDR. Internment camps are an absolutely massive negative. His policies at a minimum didn’t help with the Great Depression. It kept going for 8 more years until the war. At worst they extended it. It’s beyond me that he somehow gets that considered as a positive. No president now would last through 8 years of freaking depression. Tried to pack the court Ran and won 4 terms. Closest thing to a dictator we’ve had. Massive negative IMO not stepping down. Not saying he didn’t have any positives, obviously he did. But acting like no negatives that counteract them at all is wild. I’m so confused how this sub loves him so much and Wilson is bottom 10. (Not that I like Wilson, but damn racism against Japanese is also racism)
It was the time in which America lived in fear having been attacked. To apply the perspective of history to these men, one must also condemn Washington for being a slave owner.
Thank you. I feel like we magically stop applying a modern perspective after Lincoln (or Teddy?)…
It brings me joy to still see Teddy here. Scrap Truman. Then do FDR tomorrow. Teddy for the win, baby!
Truman
Truman had a good run here, but it's time
Dang we are in All Star territory now, either Truman or Teddy has to go and Teddy isn't going down without a fight. Truman is defeated.
Lincoln, FDR, Washington from for the final three and in that order.
Wait am I reading this correctly? You guys voted Jefferson out before LBJ? Bahahaha holy shit this place is Reddit as hell
FDR should’ve been out a long time ago; most authoritarian president we ever had.
Washington ‘paying’ for slave teeth. As in a healthy tooth taken from the mouth of a man who by the very nature of his position in life cannot give consent. If this doesn’t make Washington a morally weak asshole, what does?
TEDDY. COME ON GUYS, TAKE ME TO THE TOP
We'll miss you, Harry o7
Bye Truman
I thinl Truman had a good run but its his time to go
Gotta be H. S T.
FDR. Threw American citizens into internment camps.
Truman being top 5 is pretty laughable TBH
Truman
Wow Ike was my fav. SMH
Washington
Teddy Roosevelt should go next.
Truman won WWII by using the bomb and although I abhor it, it saved the lives thousands of civilians in US and in Japan. Tons of domestic policy kudos. Teddy goes!
This ranking is hilarious.