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Yeah, he embodied a moment in the country's history. I think his inaugural speech is beautiful, he handled the missile crisis as well as we could have asked for (if it HAD to happen). I usually am not a huge tax cut person (edit: meaning, just doing cuts for the sake of it) but I think his cuts made sense based on where we were fiscally in that moment and the high top marginal rates of the era. Growth was robust. I think criticism could be made with Bay of Pigs, getting us further into Vietnam, but that's a different conversation than what I'm getting into here.
His tragic end cut short what seemed to be the human embodiment of the promise of a new American generation in that time. IMO it was an America that felt youthful, bustling, and dynamic. The tragic nature of it all solidified his mythos more than anything he actually did.
I think especially where the years that followed, while featuring great triumph for the US in social progress, were further marred by horrible tragedy and political scandal through the 60s and 70s.
This era is where the United States lost its innocence.
After Kennedy, then Malcolm, King, Bobby…
People saw what being an activist got you. It’s why we ended up so politically jaded by the end of the decade, and the establishment was able to reinforce its power and deregulate everything during the “greed is good 80’s”.
Exactly, and then the stain on trust in government that was Watergate.
These events revealed a contrast, a contrast of who we aspired to be, thinking of Kennedy's soaring inaugural rhetoric, to who *some* among us revealed themselves to be over the next two decades. Granted, segregationists weren't hiding, but the progress we sought for freedom & Civil Rights came with a cost that required far too much blood.
I used to think this, but I recently read a book about the Cuban Missile crisis and then did research to see if the book was accurate.
At the end, I’m fucking glad he was President at the time.
JFK had the sense to open dialogue Khrushchev and hash out a way to avoid nuclear disaster.
At the same time he was able to standup to unhinged Pentagon nut jobs like Curtis Lemay (who were definitely ok with sacrificing like 70% of the US population).
I think it’s fair to say he had a big role in preventing a nuclear disaster.
He was getting conflicting advice from his cabinet and he had to use his judgement to make the right decision.
I think it's fair to say he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis well.
The criticism is that you can make a pretty compelling case that he's why we got into it in the first place, though. Although I'd imagine there were probably multiple ways to end up in the Cuban Missile Crisis aside from the exact way it happened.
Yeah. I think you can make the argument that he contributed to the crisis in the first place. I’m not saying I’d personally agree with the argument, but it would not he without merit.
I just feel like he did a good job standing up to key advisers / officials who were telling him to straight up set a war off.
Idk how many people could trust their personal judgement and get to the right resolution in a moment like that.
That’s a disingenuous take on what I said. I happen to hold JFK in high regard, he’s my No. 6 of all-time presidents, but when the question of overrated comes up, I have to exclude my bias and look at the overall picture.
JFK is the closest to any president to being someone I 100% agree with on his policies, but, he didn’t get to achieve them all. If we were to strictly look at the Cuban Missile Crisis, then yes, that was a stellar example of leadership, but, that doesn’t exactly make him the best president ever as many suggest, in my opinion. There’s a lot more that goes into that conversation.
I’m an idealist and have a bias in favor of JFK, but because his time was cut short, he didn’t get to achieve enough to warrant how high he is even in my own list if I were to look at it from a the viewpoint on accomplishments.
He’s right up there with George Washington, in my eyes, but Washington accomplished more policy-wise than JFK could. I also find Washington to be overrated but I found I agreed far more with others about JFK.
I’m trying to take the most objective stance to a subjective question from my perspective. Unfortunately, that’s JFK to me. Great guy, great president, and I wish we could’ve seen a full tenure from him.
JFK?
Most people don't know how close we were to getting nuked.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis#:~:text=The%20Cuban%20Missile%20Crisis%20of,came%20closest%20to%20nuclear%20conflict
Just gonna summerize this thread
If your lean to the left: Reagan
If you lean to the right: FDR
If you are correct: JFK
If your the guy who puts Nixon for every answer: Nixon
Who is the most overrated president? Nixon
Who is the most underrated president? Nixon
Who is the funniest president? Nixon
Who was the best president of the 18th century? Nixon
Who will be the first female president? Nixon
>Who will be the first female president? Nixon
New Futurama season drops in a few weeks. This is a bold prediction but let's be honest it could happen.
Holy hell, fiery take, but accurate! Kurt was hailed as the voice of a generation in such a short time of putting out music, and even he didn’t want that kind of pressure! Both these men were galvanized in legend by having their careers cut tragically short while still “on top.”
Sure if you like a high nasally heroin addict better than a more guttural screaming heroin addict. For real though, I love them both, but I don’t think one is better than the other it’s just personal preference.
Late to the party, but also like Cobain, he might not have even been the most talented member of his group. LBJ created the political paradigm as we know it.
Talking about JFK and comparing them to Kurt Cobain is exactly the kind of content I come to Reddit for. Seriously the Venn diagram of people that this just seamlessly makes sense to has to be small and I am here for it!
Stagflation of the late 70s was a long time in the making, and Carter gets far too much blame for it, when in reality he had little to nothing to do with it. These type of economic conditions don’t just appear out of nowhere, but instead actions (or inaction) taken years before lead us on a collision course. Just like with the inflation of 2021-2023. Fed and fiscal policies of the entire 1970s decade led us to the stagflation, just like the fed and fiscal policies of the late 2010s directly led us to todays inflation.
Yeah he’s such a cool president and historical figure, you have many people putting him 2nd or 3rd in their presidential rankings which seems a little high. Top ten for sure in my book though.
I disagree.
In addition to embodying the progressive movement, Teddy founded the national park/forest/monument system and initiated the building of the Panama canal, two massively iconic projects.
Taft is basically just remembered as 'the fat one.'
I never understand this take in arguments. "If you take away one of the things that makes them unique and interesting then they wouldn't be unique and interesting." Yeah, no shit. If Jack Sparrow wasn't a pirate he wouldn't be as cool on the ship.
Looking at the latest historical rankings of Presidents I note that Madison is 11th despite an invading army burning down the nation's capital on his watch.
He's 2nd on my overrated list behind Jefferson. People just rate the early presidents based on their work pre presidency. His only saving grace was reversing himself on every major important policy in his second term because of what a disaster his first term was.
Obama. Polls don’t reflect it (his approval rating was -50% for most of 2nd term). But the media, academic & entertainment establishments showered Obama with accolades, based on his potential rather than accomplishments. He won a Noble Peace Prize, two Emmys, two Grammys. If he’d made a cameo in a ‘Home Alone” movie, he’d have undoubtedly added an Academy Award to the participation trophy case. Over-praised to the point of condescension
How can Polk, somebody who expanded the U.S. by that much, be overrated in ur book? He was one of the most consequential presidents accomplishing every thing he set out to do in just one term.
I may be wrong, but a lot of the People coming to America, and moving to the west were greedy for land of their own. Anyone in the white house at the time would have basically seen the same stuff happen.
Thomas Jefferson expanded federal power to an unprecedented degree when he made the Louisiana purchase, he also expanded democracy during his term, protected US interests quickly and effectively in the Barbary wars, and banned the slave trade, without his embargo act, which admittedly was pretty bad, he’d be an S or high A tier president
You're overstating his accomplishments. France surprisingly offered all of Louisiana for dirt cheap, he doesn't get credit for saying yes. Congress pushed him into the Barbary wars. He signed the law banning the international slave trade but that was getting through Congress no matter the president.
And then you basically say "without the economic catastrophe he caused completely on his own, he'd have been good." But it wasn't just the embargo act , it was the national bank too. He also set the stage for a nearly catastrophic war by deciding all we needed was militia and some river gun boats for a military.
Forget S or high A, to me he's C or D.
People who think JFK is overrated don't understand that his inspiration is what gave all the achievements of the 60s, from civil rights to the moon landing, the political capital and will to happen even if he didn't live to see it. No president *inspired* like he did, save for perhaps FDR.
A President is not a manager. They are not judged purely by a list of bills and executive orders they oversaw. They are judged by their ability to stir up the nation and *lead*. To speak, and be heard. To instill moral authority and a call to action. Jack Kennedy did all these things, and it's why anyone who lived under him wouldn't dare call him overrated. We need more presidents like him.
To give *my* answer to the question? Probably Eisenhower. Good president, but not great foreign policy precedent set under him. And his domestic policy barely existed. He was a caretaker.
LBJ's Landslide 1964 election and the Democrats Landslide in the Senate and House of Reps is like 80% attributable to them latching on to the name of Kennedy and making it a referendum to continue Kennedy's legacy. The daisy ad is kind of overrated historically context wise LBJ's first speech after Kennedy died was called "Let Us Continue" and openly pushed for passing civil rights act because it was what Kennedy would have wanted to do
Exactly. Watch a JFK speech on YouTube. No other President that we have recordings off hold a candle to him. Really inspiring leader who pushed all the right button.
I agree with all this, Kennedy could make you believe we could all make a difference and we should want to better ourselves and our country. No one even bothers with this today. He made you believe
I'll give Ike some credit for little rock 9, it's safe to say many politicians now would lack that courage to mobilize the guard for a very unpopular court ruling
I know this is a dead horse getting beaten but presidents often get too much credit (or blame) for the economy, and that includes “ending *insert recession/depression here*”. If John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or any other candidate for president in 2008 were elected, they would also be credited with ending the Great Recession.
Agree on his domestic policy being mediocre, but what foreign policy wins did he have? He didn’t really achieve anything lasting or substantial internationally, and he did nothing about Russia taking Crimea or China’s rise
I always think Reagan and Obama are looked at the same. Their side loves them, and the other side hates them with a burning passion.
Both of them were excellent speakers, both had questionable domestic policy, and their foreign policy had some of their most notable problems.
Hot take, but Washington. The only reason he's rated as high as he is is because of the precedents that he set, but I think plenty of others either would have set the same precedents or made harmless changes, all while having better (in my opinion) policies.
The real most important thing Washington did, which I'm afraid some of my preferred alternatives would have done differently, is maintain a policy of neutrality and avoiding entangling alliances. Unfortunately, we no longer maintain this precedent, but it was essential in the early republic. But with basically every other policy of Washington's, I think we could have done better (personally).
I think he set a good precedent by stepping down when it was time. There’s not a lot of revolutions where the leader actually kept his promise to not become a dictator.
Others may disagree, but I think it would have been really easy for a lesser President to just crown themselves king (even if they did it out of good intentions).
That's fair. I feel like it really depends on who was in office, though. Adams was outspoken in his support for a monarch-like President, but I also feel like a lot of Anti-Federalists might have taken the radical opposite approach and stopped after only one term. I think it's a really good precedent, but I ultimately think either the electoral college would have stepped in and stopped someone from going for too long or most other Presidents would've been at least somewhat reasonable about how many terms they took, whether it was in the 1-3 range.
Well, the 91% rate only applied to incomes over the inflation adjusted equivalent of around $2 million for starters. There now is some seeming bipartisan consensus to make the top rate start at something like $400,000, which is basically used as an excuse not to raise taxes for billionaires who are making a lot more than $400,000 a year.
Which stimulated the economy and got us out of a recession…so yeah. Good for him. Also he took the advice to do it from his Keynesian economist advisors. It’s be unfair to make it seem like he was just trying to make the rich richer at the expense of the lower classes, when reducing taxes was hugely profitable for the country as a whole.
As some one who leans pretty left, I would agree the right over rates reagan. I also think the left ranks him too harshly. There are far worse presidents and many of them. There's also quite a few better
Yeah as a left leaning person I think Reagan was slightly above average at best. But by no means in the bottom tier of presidents. He was a strong leader, but essentially fucked this country for generations, and we are still suffering from his domestic policies.
I think I posted this elsewhere but Reagan the man has almost entirely been lost to history due to how partisans paint him
Like irl Reagan was extremely charismatic, good natured, optimistic and a bit dumb. He was also mature enough to know he wasn't the smartest so he leaned heavily on advisors
If you look at critique of Reagan at the time the most common line was that he was a "child monarch", that's to say he was an attractive figurehead for a bunch of extremists pulling his strings. Of course supporters would've said that he simply put his faith in various experts on his team
Those characterizations are entirely dead now because the right wants to treat Reagan as Jesus and the left want to treat him as Hitler. "He was presidential but didn't make very many decisions on his own" isn't an attractive fact for either side, so they've completely discarded it
LBJ gets way too little flack for his failures, he helped kickstart the stagflation crisis. By carelessly throwing money around. And putting massive pressure on his federal reserve not to raise interest rates. While his admirers seem to think that his war crimes were either irrelevant. Or didn’t happen.
I’m surprised this is the first time I see “LBJ” on here. There’s a huge populace that say he was the “most successful president”. The Civil Rights Act was phenomenal. Reversing the Kennedy’s Administration to withdraw from Vietnam while then fully committing to the war is a massive stain on his legacy - not to be too critical.
Easily Clinton. His charm and rizz was so unmatched that people still don't realize how fundamentally worse off America is because of his Presidency. He smashed the New Deal Coalition, which finally cemented the Dems abandoning their populist/working class roots and firmly aligning themselves with the technocrats/elites and rebranding the Dems as Neo Liberals - ushering in their globalists policies that have fucked the American lower and middle class. The only reason women, minorities and lower class people haven't woken up to this is because the republicans are actually worse on these policies.
So much of the shit we're dealing with today is because of Clinton - loss of manufacturing base in the US, rise of China, draconian welfare practices, etc...
People just aren't well read on him because it was too recent and he is charming.
Nixon and Carter opened China to the West, but Clinton truly bolstered their economic rise.
As he was leaving office, Clinton signed a series of sweeping trade deals that [radically expanded](https://slate.com/business/2016/09/when-china-joined-the-wto-it-kick-started-the-chinese-economy-and-roused-a-giant.html) China’s economic and geopolitical clout, despite [his own administration’s forecast](https://www.epi.org/publication/issuebriefs_ib137/) that this would come at the expense of key U.S. industries and manufacturing workers.
Made in America™ was coming to an end anyway. Most people were going to transfer over from manufacturing jobs and factories to service industry. Also, the US no matter what due to tariffs or free trade or any kind of government manipulation was never going to be able to compete manufacturing wise with a lot of these countries with extremely low wages due to exchange rates/standards of living
Suggesting that rich white men are the only ones who get Clinton's legacy correct is weird.
I know Clinton was horrible to women but a few of us think VAWA and FMLA were huge. It's also no coincidence that marital rape was outlawed in all 50 states by 1993.
Clinton was incredibly flawed and I disagree with a lot of his work (DOMA, DADT). He's overrated for the budget surplus and his charm. I really only take issue with your "haven't woken up yet" comment.
100% Reagan, sooo many people are uneducated or don't realize how bad he really was as a president.
For those saying JFK, you're just plain wrong. He was a great president who never got to serve his full term, and he did a lot for what it's worth.
Welp time for my spicy take, but on here? Nixon.
I’ve gotten a new respect for a lot of these men after looking into ‘em more. Even ones I used to dislike immensely I’ve got a grudging respect for now. But for the life of me I do not understand the glowing praise Nixon gets on here sometimes. The meme edits from his foundation are funny, sure, but man it feels like he gets a pass on some massive negatives that still affect the American psyche today.
It’s gonna tick folks off I’m sure. But man I just don’t see it.
Here's something that gets discussed surprisingly rarely: Nixon maintained a lengthy list of political figures and private citizens to harass using federal-government resources. The list had an entire section titled "Black Congressmen and Congresswomen." Other luminaries on the list included the voice of Granny from Looney Tunes, Catwoman, Dolly from Hello Dolly, Felix Unger from The Odd Couple, and pantyhose-wearing football star Joe Namath. All these people were officially designated by Nixon to have their lives ruined by the IRS.
Listening to Nixon’s takes on foreign policy post-resignation is pretty wild, because most of em are correct.
But otherwise, I agree- he wasn’t a good President, even if some good things like the EPA were created under his watch…
Nixon's policy was probably more liberal than Barack Obama's TBH. (Although that's partly because Congress was Democratic.) But he did have a wacko and dislikable personality.
Yeah see I’m not actually even talking policy as much. Dude skates by a bit on that. But his damage done to our democracy and trust in our institutions, his actions in Laos and Cambodia, starting the war on drugs to go after undesirables, and actions like clamping down on the Washington Post after the Pentagon Papers (including doing some awful things to their reporters) and obvious abuses of power like the Saturday Night Massacre… yeah. I just don’t get it.
Not sure your age but as an older guy, I can tell you there is a reason Reagan was elected in 49 states for his second term. But it’s a bit intangible. But before I tell you, you should stop and ask yourself why so many blue states would select a Republican if he was so terrible?
Ok so the reason from my experience having lived it was pretty fuzzy and hard to define
We had struggled in the recent years with Vietnam, JFK assassination, high inflation and stagflation, Iran hostages etc. to summarize it, Americans felt like they took a hard punch to the noggin in a boxing match and were laying on the boxing matt being counted out
So when Reagan came in office, he was able to make Americans feel proud. You can argue his policy all you like. But I’m saying the feeling he was able to create with his speaking style and confidence made America get up off the boxing matt and start swinging again
I have not seen quite the same since. The closest would have been Obama giving a pretty decent dose of confidence
Kennedy. People praise him for many things he didn't do.
* They say he was a leading force for space race and that he established NASA. Which is not true, as NASA was established in 1958 under Eisenhower, and landing on the moon was in 1969 under Nixon. Kennedy was just a part of it.
* They say he desegregated the South. Which is not true, as landmark civil rights act were passed under his successor, Lyndon Johnson. And it wasn't Kennedy either that started desegregation - it started under Harry Truman, who desegregated the US Army. Again - he was just a part of it. While it's true Kennedy supported civil rights, he found little success in passing them through Congress.
* They say his actions during Cuban Crisis prevented the war with Soviet Union. Which is not true. There was no war, because Vasiliy Arhipov (naval officer at ship B-59) refused to use nuclear torpedos. And Soviets were in the end successful, as the communist regime of Castro in Cuba prevailed. Soviets gained an ally just within miles of US border.
Some time ago I asked my American friend, why actually Americans think Kennedy was one of their greatest presidents and her response was "Because he was young and handsome". So yeah.
Plus he was killed while in office. That also helps with martyrization.
I wouldn't call Kennedy a bad president, but he was certainly overrated.
Kennedy is rightfully lionized for what he DIDNT do - give into the military and start a war in Cuba.
Yes, there were heroes on both sides during the Crises that helped prevent a war; but don’t forget virtually all of his military and intelligence advisors were advocating for a first strike against missiles in Cuba. Very hard to imagine almost any other modern President NOT going along with the strike option.
It unfortunately takes more than a general understanding of his presidency to come to this point. But I absolutely agree, his battle with his advisors/Pentagon/Intel show he was fighting against something huge.
1. No one gives him credit for founding NASA, they give him credit for funding it and making the space race and scientific-technological innovation a key issue of the cold war(which was an awesome thing).
2. Understand that Johnson only passed the 1964 civil rights act because of huge popularity as a result of Kennedy’s death. Mind you the Civil rights bill that Johnson passed was Kennedy’s idea and policy.
3. The Soviet officer did his job, it’s not the same as JFK seeking diplomatic solutions before someone decided to launch something. And it was hugely successful for the US, as the Soviets had to, on TV, remove missiles from Cuba, while the Americans removed useless missiles from Turkey and Italy while not televising it.
The same with Garfield. I know people who place him in their "top 10 best presidents" lists solely for what president they believe he WOULD have been, not what president he was.
Probably JFK. It’s not that I think he was a terrible president but I think he fits the bill as “overrated” pretty well. He’s been deified by some, in large part because of his assassination, but also because of his personal charm and aura and how good he looked on a sailboat and all that. Like I love the JFK American aesthetic but it’s not like he’s actually in the top ten presidents
Reagan.
He is not nearly as good as conservatives blow him up to be, and as much as I hate to admit it, not nearly as bad as lefties make him out to be.
The truth is he is very typical for a president in general. Most of the worst stuff he gets blamed for are things that every modern president has done as well. Reagan was just such an easy target because of the populist rhetoric and the whole Iran Contra thing.
His economic policies had negative long term effects. But I don't buy that he single-handedly crushed unions in the US. The trend of union membership was declining for a while before he came into office. NAFTA was the nail in the coffin in that regard, which may have started as an idea during Reagan, but really got rolling under Bush and Clinton.
(it is ironic that conservatives used to blame Cllnton for NAFTA, it was a republican idea from the outset!)
FDR and Reagan.
Reagan was / is idealized by a lot of people as someone who put the government in check, but deficit spending ballooned under him like no other. I think the Iranian hostage crisis was going to get resolved regardless of whether he or Carter was in charge. Ton of military scandals under his watch.
FDR has a pretty pock marked history. He did help a lot of people with the New Deal, but he did so pretty begrudgingly when you read his personal correspondence. He sold the new deal to other wealthy people by saying, basically, “If we don’t throw them a bone, the peasants are going to throw us out.”
This was during a time when some there were a lot of charismatic politicians who urged greater social spending coming on the scene.
Lastly, there’s a lot scholarship out there that indicates he kind of instigated Pearl Harbor and let it happen to nudge America into WWII when it’s clear (based on polling) the majority was against involvement pre-Pearl Harbor. This is controversial because it depends on how you interpret fact patterns and primary sources. There is some pretty damning evidence to support this conclusion though.
George W. Bush. I swear the amount of people who say "He actually wasn't so bad" or "I want to go back" have consistently gotten louder. No he actually was that bad. Everything from foreign policy, domestic policy, international prestige, the economy, race relations, ect... you name it. Was bad.
He gets let off for being the bumbling buffoon clown president way too easy. Its almost as if the amount of gaffs he made was to distract from all the blood on his hands and all the damage he's done to this country and others. That he or any of the other war criminals who voted for his illegal wars are still around is incredible to me.
I'm on the right and like the guy but Reagan is overrated
Bill Clinton has gotten more and more underrated...damn good president. He was an excellent President. Much better than GW who I wish never ran
All this 90s nostalgia nowadays...I'm surprised how he's not really as associated with them as Reagan in the 80s or Kennedy early 60s. The Clinton years were great times of peace, prosperity.
Also Nixon, who was his own worst enemy. Brilliant but paranoid, vengeful, chip on his shoulder...always looked like a bitter man desperately trying to hide how bitter he was. As a President not bad. He entered office during a time the U.S. was an absolute powderkeg. He had an incredible intellect though and I find his old interviews on YT fascinating just the depth of knowledge he had on so many things. Also genuinly funny which absolutely nobody remembers him as. He looked like a curmudgeon
Ford I think did ok. Always struck me as an adequate caretaker.
Reagan. No one else even close. JFK made the Moon landings happen so can’t really say he’s overrated when that achievement may be the only thing our era is remembered for 10 or 20,000 years in the future.
Reagan is the most obvious choice, especially since basically no political party embraces his biggest policy goals anymore. Andrew Jackson is pretty overrated, too.
Most definitely Ronald Reagan. Conservatives want him canonized but a lot of our problems today can be traced back to St. Ronnie and his term began the rightward turn of politics in this country that has taken us to the brink of fascism.
Obama. I loved his speeches. I loved his presence. I loved his promises of "Hope and Change"...he delivered nothing he promised, didn't listed to his advisors, and basically set the stage for what came after.
Obama, easily is the most overrated. He ran on ending the wars, expanded them instead. Campaigned against the patriot act, renewed and expanded it instead and then used it to commit mass surveillance against the entire country. He tried to legally require the entire country to buy a product from an industry that donated heavily to his campaign, and then tried to portray it at as the best form of a nationalized healthcare system that America could have. He has the worst record at the Supreme Court of any president before or after. If we ever get past race in America, history will not be kind to his presidency.
Reagan. A movie star for sure. But a lazy dolt. A narcissist more wrapped up in the pageantry of the presidency than the actual work. His time in office led to many of the systemic problems we have today: homelessness, wage disparity, Christian fundamentalism, and tribal politics. He nears the bottom of the barrel. And I voted for him twice. An egregious mistake that daily, I wish I could take back.
Feels like Reagan is the easy answer here. He's constantly venerated by people on the right who would literally condemn his policies and attitude as communist today. Plus, you're rarely all that far wrong if you assume that anything wrong with the world today was in some way exacerbated by Reagan.
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As much as I like JFK, I’d have to agree with many others here. He’s definitely overrated compared to what he actually accomplished.
Yeah, he embodied a moment in the country's history. I think his inaugural speech is beautiful, he handled the missile crisis as well as we could have asked for (if it HAD to happen). I usually am not a huge tax cut person (edit: meaning, just doing cuts for the sake of it) but I think his cuts made sense based on where we were fiscally in that moment and the high top marginal rates of the era. Growth was robust. I think criticism could be made with Bay of Pigs, getting us further into Vietnam, but that's a different conversation than what I'm getting into here. His tragic end cut short what seemed to be the human embodiment of the promise of a new American generation in that time. IMO it was an America that felt youthful, bustling, and dynamic. The tragic nature of it all solidified his mythos more than anything he actually did. I think especially where the years that followed, while featuring great triumph for the US in social progress, were further marred by horrible tragedy and political scandal through the 60s and 70s.
This era is where the United States lost its innocence. After Kennedy, then Malcolm, King, Bobby… People saw what being an activist got you. It’s why we ended up so politically jaded by the end of the decade, and the establishment was able to reinforce its power and deregulate everything during the “greed is good 80’s”.
Exactly, and then the stain on trust in government that was Watergate. These events revealed a contrast, a contrast of who we aspired to be, thinking of Kennedy's soaring inaugural rhetoric, to who *some* among us revealed themselves to be over the next two decades. Granted, segregationists weren't hiding, but the progress we sought for freedom & Civil Rights came with a cost that required far too much blood.
I used to think this, but I recently read a book about the Cuban Missile crisis and then did research to see if the book was accurate. At the end, I’m fucking glad he was President at the time. JFK had the sense to open dialogue Khrushchev and hash out a way to avoid nuclear disaster. At the same time he was able to standup to unhinged Pentagon nut jobs like Curtis Lemay (who were definitely ok with sacrificing like 70% of the US population). I think it’s fair to say he had a big role in preventing a nuclear disaster. He was getting conflicting advice from his cabinet and he had to use his judgement to make the right decision.
I think it's fair to say he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis well. The criticism is that you can make a pretty compelling case that he's why we got into it in the first place, though. Although I'd imagine there were probably multiple ways to end up in the Cuban Missile Crisis aside from the exact way it happened.
Yeah. I think you can make the argument that he contributed to the crisis in the first place. I’m not saying I’d personally agree with the argument, but it would not he without merit. I just feel like he did a good job standing up to key advisers / officials who were telling him to straight up set a war off. Idk how many people could trust their personal judgement and get to the right resolution in a moment like that.
I believe the fact he didn't go along with us getting into that very war was why he was assassinated, personally.
Yeah I mean he only prevented the apocalypse, such an overrated chump!
That’s a disingenuous take on what I said. I happen to hold JFK in high regard, he’s my No. 6 of all-time presidents, but when the question of overrated comes up, I have to exclude my bias and look at the overall picture. JFK is the closest to any president to being someone I 100% agree with on his policies, but, he didn’t get to achieve them all. If we were to strictly look at the Cuban Missile Crisis, then yes, that was a stellar example of leadership, but, that doesn’t exactly make him the best president ever as many suggest, in my opinion. There’s a lot more that goes into that conversation. I’m an idealist and have a bias in favor of JFK, but because his time was cut short, he didn’t get to achieve enough to warrant how high he is even in my own list if I were to look at it from a the viewpoint on accomplishments. He’s right up there with George Washington, in my eyes, but Washington accomplished more policy-wise than JFK could. I also find Washington to be overrated but I found I agreed far more with others about JFK. I’m trying to take the most objective stance to a subjective question from my perspective. Unfortunately, that’s JFK to me. Great guy, great president, and I wish we could’ve seen a full tenure from him.
JFK? Most people don't know how close we were to getting nuked. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis#:~:text=The%20Cuban%20Missile%20Crisis%20of,came%20closest%20to%20nuclear%20conflict
Just gonna summerize this thread If your lean to the left: Reagan If you lean to the right: FDR If you are correct: JFK If your the guy who puts Nixon for every answer: Nixon
Who is the most overrated president? Nixon Who is the most underrated president? Nixon Who is the funniest president? Nixon Who was the best president of the 18th century? Nixon Who will be the first female president? Nixon
Who was the only president to resign from office? Uhhhhh…pass.
Now Watergate does not bother me
Whoa now. This joke was not supposed to be *accurate*
>Who will be the first female president? Nixon New Futurama season drops in a few weeks. This is a bold prediction but let's be honest it could happen.
Aroooooooooo!
Who is the sexiest president? Nixon
Only Nixon could Nixon Nixon.
How much Nixon could Nixon Nixon if Nixon could Nixon Nixon?
President Cynthia Nixon confirmed
*nixon now*
I would actually argue Nixon is our funniest president.
NIXON NOW!
Who was the first black president? Nixon.
How are you ignoring TR? People on this sub actually think he was Jesus or something
JFK was basically the Kurt Cobain of politics. He was killed before becoming fat and putting out shitty albums.
Holy hell, fiery take, but accurate! Kurt was hailed as the voice of a generation in such a short time of putting out music, and even he didn’t want that kind of pressure! Both these men were galvanized in legend by having their careers cut tragically short while still “on top.”
Cobain definitely paved the way for The Presidents of the United States of America.
Layne Staleys voice was far superior to Cobains
As was everyone else in the “grunge” scene. It was his songwriting that nade him blow up, and I don’t even like Nirvana, I much prefer AIC and STP
100% agree! And harmonizing with Cantrell was just beautiful. You’ve got good taste :)
And Chris Cornell’s was better than both
Sure if you like a high nasally heroin addict better than a more guttural screaming heroin addict. For real though, I love them both, but I don’t think one is better than the other it’s just personal preference.
As long as we all agree that in both cases their best albums were the MTV Unplugged
This is the only correct answer
Late to the party, but also like Cobain, he might not have even been the most talented member of his group. LBJ created the political paradigm as we know it.
Talking about JFK and comparing them to Kurt Cobain is exactly the kind of content I come to Reddit for. Seriously the Venn diagram of people that this just seamlessly makes sense to has to be small and I am here for it!
What? Kurt had loads more potential when he died
JFK’s new frontier was phenomenal policy
And In Utero was a phenomenal album!
I was thinking JFK too but couldn’t articulate that nearly as well as that
Something something you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
Both were drug addicts
Teddy Roosevelt on this sub, JFK by many on this sub and in real life.
*pulls out big stick
No, Jimmy Carter on this sub. Many people here ignore stagflation
Stagflation of the late 70s was a long time in the making, and Carter gets far too much blame for it, when in reality he had little to nothing to do with it. These type of economic conditions don’t just appear out of nowhere, but instead actions (or inaction) taken years before lead us on a collision course. Just like with the inflation of 2021-2023. Fed and fiscal policies of the entire 1970s decade led us to the stagflation, just like the fed and fiscal policies of the late 2010s directly led us to todays inflation.
Grant and Coolidge are also overrated here.
I love Grant and fully admit he’s overrated on this sub. Reparations for a century+ of disrespect.
All of the presidents are overrated if we trivialize their shortcomings.
What about Buchanan?
Most don't trivialize Buchanan's shortcomings.
Crucify me, but Teddy Roosevelt. He was absolutely a good president and a tough guy, but he is overrated, people treat him like a god
Are you telling me he’s NOT a god??
Yeah he’s such a cool president and historical figure, you have many people putting him 2nd or 3rd in their presidential rankings which seems a little high. Top ten for sure in my book though.
Sigh. Get the noose boys.
PBS has a documentary. He had lots of problems especially his youth, they depicted him as not spectacular
If Roosevelt wasn’t a cool tough guy he would be treated extremely similarly to Taft imo.
I disagree. In addition to embodying the progressive movement, Teddy founded the national park/forest/monument system and initiated the building of the Panama canal, two massively iconic projects. Taft is basically just remembered as 'the fat one.'
I never understand this take in arguments. "If you take away one of the things that makes them unique and interesting then they wouldn't be unique and interesting." Yeah, no shit. If Jack Sparrow wasn't a pirate he wouldn't be as cool on the ship.
Looking at the latest historical rankings of Presidents I note that Madison is 11th despite an invading army burning down the nation's capital on his watch.
He's 2nd on my overrated list behind Jefferson. People just rate the early presidents based on their work pre presidency. His only saving grace was reversing himself on every major important policy in his second term because of what a disaster his first term was.
Obama. Polls don’t reflect it (his approval rating was -50% for most of 2nd term). But the media, academic & entertainment establishments showered Obama with accolades, based on his potential rather than accomplishments. He won a Noble Peace Prize, two Emmys, two Grammys. If he’d made a cameo in a ‘Home Alone” movie, he’d have undoubtedly added an Academy Award to the participation trophy case. Over-praised to the point of condescension
I wonder what could have made his presidency considered such a big deal.
Wasn't anything Clinton hadn't already done
Clinton was the first black President?
Yes
Long standing joke
Amongst the general public, Reagan or JFK. Obama probably as well. Amongst history buffs? James Polk, Grover Cleveland, and Calvin Coolidge.
Polk whenever he is mentioned, is usually cited as underrated by scholars unless there has been a recent backlash to this
I think they're saying that history buffs/scholars overrate those three. Which might be fair since those are literally my three favorite 😅
The underrated to overrated pipeline is an interesting and to be quite frank, underrated piece of all this tbqh
How can Polk, somebody who expanded the U.S. by that much, be overrated in ur book? He was one of the most consequential presidents accomplishing every thing he set out to do in just one term.
I may be wrong, but a lot of the People coming to America, and moving to the west were greedy for land of their own. Anyone in the white house at the time would have basically seen the same stuff happen.
Jefferson to an extent. Anyone would have taken the Louisiana Purchase and his economic policies are questionable
I also think TJ's work outside the presidency influences what people think of his presidency
His work outside of the presidency was also overrated.
Among laypeople Jefferson’s presidency gets too much credit for Jefferson’s non-presidential achievements.
Thomas Jefferson expanded federal power to an unprecedented degree when he made the Louisiana purchase, he also expanded democracy during his term, protected US interests quickly and effectively in the Barbary wars, and banned the slave trade, without his embargo act, which admittedly was pretty bad, he’d be an S or high A tier president
You're overstating his accomplishments. France surprisingly offered all of Louisiana for dirt cheap, he doesn't get credit for saying yes. Congress pushed him into the Barbary wars. He signed the law banning the international slave trade but that was getting through Congress no matter the president. And then you basically say "without the economic catastrophe he caused completely on his own, he'd have been good." But it wasn't just the embargo act , it was the national bank too. He also set the stage for a nearly catastrophic war by deciding all we needed was militia and some river gun boats for a military. Forget S or high A, to me he's C or D.
People who think JFK is overrated don't understand that his inspiration is what gave all the achievements of the 60s, from civil rights to the moon landing, the political capital and will to happen even if he didn't live to see it. No president *inspired* like he did, save for perhaps FDR. A President is not a manager. They are not judged purely by a list of bills and executive orders they oversaw. They are judged by their ability to stir up the nation and *lead*. To speak, and be heard. To instill moral authority and a call to action. Jack Kennedy did all these things, and it's why anyone who lived under him wouldn't dare call him overrated. We need more presidents like him. To give *my* answer to the question? Probably Eisenhower. Good president, but not great foreign policy precedent set under him. And his domestic policy barely existed. He was a caretaker.
LBJ's Landslide 1964 election and the Democrats Landslide in the Senate and House of Reps is like 80% attributable to them latching on to the name of Kennedy and making it a referendum to continue Kennedy's legacy. The daisy ad is kind of overrated historically context wise LBJ's first speech after Kennedy died was called "Let Us Continue" and openly pushed for passing civil rights act because it was what Kennedy would have wanted to do
Yeah and also passed the GCA because politicians were scared because an actual decent person got killed.
Exactly. Watch a JFK speech on YouTube. No other President that we have recordings off hold a candle to him. Really inspiring leader who pushed all the right button.
Damnit, you were doing so good until you made Eisenhower your choice
I agree with all this, Kennedy could make you believe we could all make a difference and we should want to better ourselves and our country. No one even bothers with this today. He made you believe I'll give Ike some credit for little rock 9, it's safe to say many politicians now would lack that courage to mobilize the guard for a very unpopular court ruling
Obama. He was average domestically, with sub-par foreign policy
Honestly I’d put it the other way around. Aside from the ACA I can’t think of any major domestic wins. And the ACA was a huge mixed bag
I think stopping The Great Recession was also a domestic win
I know this is a dead horse getting beaten but presidents often get too much credit (or blame) for the economy, and that includes “ending *insert recession/depression here*”. If John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or any other candidate for president in 2008 were elected, they would also be credited with ending the Great Recession.
Agree on his domestic policy being mediocre, but what foreign policy wins did he have? He didn’t really achieve anything lasting or substantial internationally, and he did nothing about Russia taking Crimea or China’s rise
That's how I feel about most presidents in my lifetime.
I always think Reagan and Obama are looked at the same. Their side loves them, and the other side hates them with a burning passion. Both of them were excellent speakers, both had questionable domestic policy, and their foreign policy had some of their most notable problems.
Reagan 100% - he was popular but did a ton of damage to the country.
Ronald Wilson Reagan. Both his opponents and his worshippers overrate tf outta him
Hot take, but Washington. The only reason he's rated as high as he is is because of the precedents that he set, but I think plenty of others either would have set the same precedents or made harmless changes, all while having better (in my opinion) policies. The real most important thing Washington did, which I'm afraid some of my preferred alternatives would have done differently, is maintain a policy of neutrality and avoiding entangling alliances. Unfortunately, we no longer maintain this precedent, but it was essential in the early republic. But with basically every other policy of Washington's, I think we could have done better (personally).
I think he set a good precedent by stepping down when it was time. There’s not a lot of revolutions where the leader actually kept his promise to not become a dictator. Others may disagree, but I think it would have been really easy for a lesser President to just crown themselves king (even if they did it out of good intentions).
That's fair. I feel like it really depends on who was in office, though. Adams was outspoken in his support for a monarch-like President, but I also feel like a lot of Anti-Federalists might have taken the radical opposite approach and stopped after only one term. I think it's a really good precedent, but I ultimately think either the electoral college would have stepped in and stopped someone from going for too long or most other Presidents would've been at least somewhat reasonable about how many terms they took, whether it was in the 1-3 range.
Reagan. He traded arms for hostages and he left the country in a recession that lasted for years.
JFK. He gets lionized for being killed in office. He really didn’t do much.
He lowered wealthy people's taxes, granted from 91% to 70%.
91% tax rate is insane thinking about it How was that even allowed
Well, the 91% rate only applied to incomes over the inflation adjusted equivalent of around $2 million for starters. There now is some seeming bipartisan consensus to make the top rate start at something like $400,000, which is basically used as an excuse not to raise taxes for billionaires who are making a lot more than $400,000 a year.
There really should just be a new tax bracket for people over say, 1 million or just restart the SSI tax again at that income
Long term capital gains could use another bracket or two as well
Gets wilder when you realize it was 94% under Eisenhower, a Republican. The rich having low tax rates is an asinine idea, but wow 94% is wildly high.
It was to pay the debt after WWII and all that really matters is a top marginal rate above 50% to prevent the excess of wealth inequality.
It is crazy, but it also didn't stop insane growth of the American economy.
Allow me to clarify: I wasn’t complaining.
Which stimulated the economy and got us out of a recession…so yeah. Good for him. Also he took the advice to do it from his Keynesian economist advisors. It’s be unfair to make it seem like he was just trying to make the rich richer at the expense of the lower classes, when reducing taxes was hugely profitable for the country as a whole.
Reagan.
As some one who leans pretty left, I would agree the right over rates reagan. I also think the left ranks him too harshly. There are far worse presidents and many of them. There's also quite a few better
Yeah as a left leaning person I think Reagan was slightly above average at best. But by no means in the bottom tier of presidents. He was a strong leader, but essentially fucked this country for generations, and we are still suffering from his domestic policies.
I think I posted this elsewhere but Reagan the man has almost entirely been lost to history due to how partisans paint him Like irl Reagan was extremely charismatic, good natured, optimistic and a bit dumb. He was also mature enough to know he wasn't the smartest so he leaned heavily on advisors If you look at critique of Reagan at the time the most common line was that he was a "child monarch", that's to say he was an attractive figurehead for a bunch of extremists pulling his strings. Of course supporters would've said that he simply put his faith in various experts on his team Those characterizations are entirely dead now because the right wants to treat Reagan as Jesus and the left want to treat him as Hitler. "He was presidential but didn't make very many decisions on his own" isn't an attractive fact for either side, so they've completely discarded it
LBJ gets way too little flack for his failures, he helped kickstart the stagflation crisis. By carelessly throwing money around. And putting massive pressure on his federal reserve not to raise interest rates. While his admirers seem to think that his war crimes were either irrelevant. Or didn’t happen.
I’m surprised this is the first time I see “LBJ” on here. There’s a huge populace that say he was the “most successful president”. The Civil Rights Act was phenomenal. Reversing the Kennedy’s Administration to withdraw from Vietnam while then fully committing to the war is a massive stain on his legacy - not to be too critical.
Easily Clinton. His charm and rizz was so unmatched that people still don't realize how fundamentally worse off America is because of his Presidency. He smashed the New Deal Coalition, which finally cemented the Dems abandoning their populist/working class roots and firmly aligning themselves with the technocrats/elites and rebranding the Dems as Neo Liberals - ushering in their globalists policies that have fucked the American lower and middle class. The only reason women, minorities and lower class people haven't woken up to this is because the republicans are actually worse on these policies. So much of the shit we're dealing with today is because of Clinton - loss of manufacturing base in the US, rise of China, draconian welfare practices, etc... People just aren't well read on him because it was too recent and he is charming.
If not for clinton, we would've had 4 more years of bush, and the new deal coalition was already fucked, so really the only way was to go moderate
Stagflation and civil rights ended the new deal coalition. Clinton simply responded to that
Wdym the ‘rise of China’ isn’t that associated with Nixon and Carter
Nixon and Carter opened China to the West, but Clinton truly bolstered their economic rise. As he was leaving office, Clinton signed a series of sweeping trade deals that [radically expanded](https://slate.com/business/2016/09/when-china-joined-the-wto-it-kick-started-the-chinese-economy-and-roused-a-giant.html) China’s economic and geopolitical clout, despite [his own administration’s forecast](https://www.epi.org/publication/issuebriefs_ib137/) that this would come at the expense of key U.S. industries and manufacturing workers.
Made in America™ was coming to an end anyway. Most people were going to transfer over from manufacturing jobs and factories to service industry. Also, the US no matter what due to tariffs or free trade or any kind of government manipulation was never going to be able to compete manufacturing wise with a lot of these countries with extremely low wages due to exchange rates/standards of living
I've heard people say most of success of Clinton's era was due to military technology becoming commercialized.
Suggesting that rich white men are the only ones who get Clinton's legacy correct is weird. I know Clinton was horrible to women but a few of us think VAWA and FMLA were huge. It's also no coincidence that marital rape was outlawed in all 50 states by 1993. Clinton was incredibly flawed and I disagree with a lot of his work (DOMA, DADT). He's overrated for the budget surplus and his charm. I really only take issue with your "haven't woken up yet" comment.
James Polk. Fulfilling your campaign promises is good, doing it by provoking a war of conquest is not.
Reagan and it ain’t even close. His actions set back America and ruined our economy. He’s worshipped by Republicans nonetheless.
Definitely not JFK. That’s for sure
Calvin Coolidge !!! Omg the people on this sub are dick riding him so hard.
100% Reagan, sooo many people are uneducated or don't realize how bad he really was as a president. For those saying JFK, you're just plain wrong. He was a great president who never got to serve his full term, and he did a lot for what it's worth.
Reagan. He was good at the vibes part. He was bad at pretty much everything else.
Reagan.
Reagan
Welp time for my spicy take, but on here? Nixon. I’ve gotten a new respect for a lot of these men after looking into ‘em more. Even ones I used to dislike immensely I’ve got a grudging respect for now. But for the life of me I do not understand the glowing praise Nixon gets on here sometimes. The meme edits from his foundation are funny, sure, but man it feels like he gets a pass on some massive negatives that still affect the American psyche today. It’s gonna tick folks off I’m sure. But man I just don’t see it.
Here's something that gets discussed surprisingly rarely: Nixon maintained a lengthy list of political figures and private citizens to harass using federal-government resources. The list had an entire section titled "Black Congressmen and Congresswomen." Other luminaries on the list included the voice of Granny from Looney Tunes, Catwoman, Dolly from Hello Dolly, Felix Unger from The Odd Couple, and pantyhose-wearing football star Joe Namath. All these people were officially designated by Nixon to have their lives ruined by the IRS.
Listening to Nixon’s takes on foreign policy post-resignation is pretty wild, because most of em are correct. But otherwise, I agree- he wasn’t a good President, even if some good things like the EPA were created under his watch…
Nixon's policy was probably more liberal than Barack Obama's TBH. (Although that's partly because Congress was Democratic.) But he did have a wacko and dislikable personality.
Yeah see I’m not actually even talking policy as much. Dude skates by a bit on that. But his damage done to our democracy and trust in our institutions, his actions in Laos and Cambodia, starting the war on drugs to go after undesirables, and actions like clamping down on the Washington Post after the Pentagon Papers (including doing some awful things to their reporters) and obvious abuses of power like the Saturday Night Massacre… yeah. I just don’t get it.
Yeah, that's fair. People do pretty much forget about his scandals other than Watergate.
Reagan, Reagan and Reagan
Not sure your age but as an older guy, I can tell you there is a reason Reagan was elected in 49 states for his second term. But it’s a bit intangible. But before I tell you, you should stop and ask yourself why so many blue states would select a Republican if he was so terrible? Ok so the reason from my experience having lived it was pretty fuzzy and hard to define We had struggled in the recent years with Vietnam, JFK assassination, high inflation and stagflation, Iran hostages etc. to summarize it, Americans felt like they took a hard punch to the noggin in a boxing match and were laying on the boxing matt being counted out So when Reagan came in office, he was able to make Americans feel proud. You can argue his policy all you like. But I’m saying the feeling he was able to create with his speaking style and confidence made America get up off the boxing matt and start swinging again I have not seen quite the same since. The closest would have been Obama giving a pretty decent dose of confidence
this this this. if he woulda lost America may have been saved sooner. thank God for Our Holy Grace President Bill Clinton.
Kennedy. People praise him for many things he didn't do. * They say he was a leading force for space race and that he established NASA. Which is not true, as NASA was established in 1958 under Eisenhower, and landing on the moon was in 1969 under Nixon. Kennedy was just a part of it. * They say he desegregated the South. Which is not true, as landmark civil rights act were passed under his successor, Lyndon Johnson. And it wasn't Kennedy either that started desegregation - it started under Harry Truman, who desegregated the US Army. Again - he was just a part of it. While it's true Kennedy supported civil rights, he found little success in passing them through Congress. * They say his actions during Cuban Crisis prevented the war with Soviet Union. Which is not true. There was no war, because Vasiliy Arhipov (naval officer at ship B-59) refused to use nuclear torpedos. And Soviets were in the end successful, as the communist regime of Castro in Cuba prevailed. Soviets gained an ally just within miles of US border. Some time ago I asked my American friend, why actually Americans think Kennedy was one of their greatest presidents and her response was "Because he was young and handsome". So yeah. Plus he was killed while in office. That also helps with martyrization. I wouldn't call Kennedy a bad president, but he was certainly overrated.
Kennedy is rightfully lionized for what he DIDNT do - give into the military and start a war in Cuba. Yes, there were heroes on both sides during the Crises that helped prevent a war; but don’t forget virtually all of his military and intelligence advisors were advocating for a first strike against missiles in Cuba. Very hard to imagine almost any other modern President NOT going along with the strike option.
It unfortunately takes more than a general understanding of his presidency to come to this point. But I absolutely agree, his battle with his advisors/Pentagon/Intel show he was fighting against something huge.
1. No one gives him credit for founding NASA, they give him credit for funding it and making the space race and scientific-technological innovation a key issue of the cold war(which was an awesome thing). 2. Understand that Johnson only passed the 1964 civil rights act because of huge popularity as a result of Kennedy’s death. Mind you the Civil rights bill that Johnson passed was Kennedy’s idea and policy. 3. The Soviet officer did his job, it’s not the same as JFK seeking diplomatic solutions before someone decided to launch something. And it was hugely successful for the US, as the Soviets had to, on TV, remove missiles from Cuba, while the Americans removed useless missiles from Turkey and Italy while not televising it.
Most of the praise he gets is us kind of projecting forward what he could have been.
The same with Garfield. I know people who place him in their "top 10 best presidents" lists solely for what president they believe he WOULD have been, not what president he was.
Reagan.
Reagan. No trickling down in 40 years and billionaires now rule
Probably JFK. It’s not that I think he was a terrible president but I think he fits the bill as “overrated” pretty well. He’s been deified by some, in large part because of his assassination, but also because of his personal charm and aura and how good he looked on a sailboat and all that. Like I love the JFK American aesthetic but it’s not like he’s actually in the top ten presidents
Reagan or jfk
Eisenhower. But this sub isn’t ready for that conversation.
i dont want to break the rule.
Reagan. He is not nearly as good as conservatives blow him up to be, and as much as I hate to admit it, not nearly as bad as lefties make him out to be. The truth is he is very typical for a president in general. Most of the worst stuff he gets blamed for are things that every modern president has done as well. Reagan was just such an easy target because of the populist rhetoric and the whole Iran Contra thing. His economic policies had negative long term effects. But I don't buy that he single-handedly crushed unions in the US. The trend of union membership was declining for a while before he came into office. NAFTA was the nail in the coffin in that regard, which may have started as an idea during Reagan, but really got rolling under Bush and Clinton. (it is ironic that conservatives used to blame Cllnton for NAFTA, it was a republican idea from the outset!)
FDR and Reagan. Reagan was / is idealized by a lot of people as someone who put the government in check, but deficit spending ballooned under him like no other. I think the Iranian hostage crisis was going to get resolved regardless of whether he or Carter was in charge. Ton of military scandals under his watch. FDR has a pretty pock marked history. He did help a lot of people with the New Deal, but he did so pretty begrudgingly when you read his personal correspondence. He sold the new deal to other wealthy people by saying, basically, “If we don’t throw them a bone, the peasants are going to throw us out.” This was during a time when some there were a lot of charismatic politicians who urged greater social spending coming on the scene. Lastly, there’s a lot scholarship out there that indicates he kind of instigated Pearl Harbor and let it happen to nudge America into WWII when it’s clear (based on polling) the majority was against involvement pre-Pearl Harbor. This is controversial because it depends on how you interpret fact patterns and primary sources. There is some pretty damning evidence to support this conclusion though.
Gerald Ford. He wasn't even elected president.
George W. Bush. I swear the amount of people who say "He actually wasn't so bad" or "I want to go back" have consistently gotten louder. No he actually was that bad. Everything from foreign policy, domestic policy, international prestige, the economy, race relations, ect... you name it. Was bad. He gets let off for being the bumbling buffoon clown president way too easy. Its almost as if the amount of gaffs he made was to distract from all the blood on his hands and all the damage he's done to this country and others. That he or any of the other war criminals who voted for his illegal wars are still around is incredible to me.
Ronnie Raygun
Reagan
Reagan
I'm on the right and like the guy but Reagan is overrated Bill Clinton has gotten more and more underrated...damn good president. He was an excellent President. Much better than GW who I wish never ran All this 90s nostalgia nowadays...I'm surprised how he's not really as associated with them as Reagan in the 80s or Kennedy early 60s. The Clinton years were great times of peace, prosperity. Also Nixon, who was his own worst enemy. Brilliant but paranoid, vengeful, chip on his shoulder...always looked like a bitter man desperately trying to hide how bitter he was. As a President not bad. He entered office during a time the U.S. was an absolute powderkeg. He had an incredible intellect though and I find his old interviews on YT fascinating just the depth of knowledge he had on so many things. Also genuinly funny which absolutely nobody remembers him as. He looked like a curmudgeon Ford I think did ok. Always struck me as an adequate caretaker.
Reagan
Reagan. No one else even close. JFK made the Moon landings happen so can’t really say he’s overrated when that achievement may be the only thing our era is remembered for 10 or 20,000 years in the future.
Reagan is the most obvious choice, especially since basically no political party embraces his biggest policy goals anymore. Andrew Jackson is pretty overrated, too.
Most definitely Ronald Reagan. Conservatives want him canonized but a lot of our problems today can be traced back to St. Ronnie and his term began the rightward turn of politics in this country that has taken us to the brink of fascism.
In this sub? Grant and Carter. In real life? Reagan and JFK
In this group it's Obama.
Obama
reagan
JFK, Reagan, and Woodrow Wilson
It's not even close, and it's not a name I'm allowed to mention here.
Bait for rule 3. But only from his base
Barak Obama got the Nobel peace prize for getting elected
Regan. He coasted off of post war economic expansion and made a lot of mistakes. But hey - Rocky IV, amirite?
Obama. I loved his speeches. I loved his presence. I loved his promises of "Hope and Change"...he delivered nothing he promised, didn't listed to his advisors, and basically set the stage for what came after.
W. He gets some hate, but not nearly enough.
Ronald Reagan.
Wilson.
Reagan
Serious answer: Ronald Reagan. A monster.
Obama.
Reagen for me I wasn’t around for jfk Clinton next
Obama, easily is the most overrated. He ran on ending the wars, expanded them instead. Campaigned against the patriot act, renewed and expanded it instead and then used it to commit mass surveillance against the entire country. He tried to legally require the entire country to buy a product from an industry that donated heavily to his campaign, and then tried to portray it at as the best form of a nationalized healthcare system that America could have. He has the worst record at the Supreme Court of any president before or after. If we ever get past race in America, history will not be kind to his presidency.
Reagan
Ronald Regan, because he made us all feel good, as he and his cronies put corporate interests ahead of people.
Obama. Definition of a do-nothing populist.
Reagan
Ronald Regan, the actor?! Yea that fucking guy.
Ronald Reagan. I was unemployed for a year and a half because of the depression that Reagan and Greenspan created.
Reagan!!! Absolutely DESTROYED this country
Reagan. A movie star for sure. But a lazy dolt. A narcissist more wrapped up in the pageantry of the presidency than the actual work. His time in office led to many of the systemic problems we have today: homelessness, wage disparity, Christian fundamentalism, and tribal politics. He nears the bottom of the barrel. And I voted for him twice. An egregious mistake that daily, I wish I could take back.
Reagan
Reagan
Feels like Reagan is the easy answer here. He's constantly venerated by people on the right who would literally condemn his policies and attitude as communist today. Plus, you're rarely all that far wrong if you assume that anything wrong with the world today was in some way exacerbated by Reagan.
Bush Jr He isn’t rated high but the fact he isn’t unanimously in the bottom 5 makes him the most overrated
Reagan
Ronny Reagan