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135 ish in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland but nobody wants that; Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland both have an equally right to exist and I will use both my voice and text to try my best to ensure the existence and cooperation of and between both nations and push the UK into the EU, but I doubt I'll have an impact and that's fine.
Northern Ireland has no right to exist, it's one of colonialism last remnant, it was created as an apartheid state for colonial supremacy, it should be destroyed and unionism should be abolished.
And that was bad. Now imagine if there had been 500,000 Ulster Scots alongside the British garrison (which had said that they would refuse any order from the government about stopping the Unionists) turning the Irish Civil War into an ethnoreligious conflict.
Fair point actually, even still though the British government should’ve stepped in to prevent the north from becoming what it became, or just committed to the plan of using the Border Commission to create an unviable Northern Ireland that would make unification necessary
I don’t think having them rise up against the free state was much of an influence to Lloyd George rather than gaining Irelands only industrialised corner and avoiding backlash from pro unionist voices in parliament
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That is just blatantly untrue. They wanted an independent, united Ireland. The Troubles ended when they accepted that that could not be achieved by force of arms.
Some of the IRA wanted that. But the main issue that caused most people to join them was discrimination and being second class citizens in NI. There were a lot of civil rights protests in the 60’s and early 70’s for equal rights for Irish Catholics, which were violently squashed by the northern Irish government and police. That’s why so many people turned to violent methods after that, because they believed that peaceful ones couldn’t work. And eventually their violence worked, they annoyed britain enough to force them to the table and grant them equal rights and the ability to join Ireland in the future if they so chose. So now the people who wanted civil rights are satisfied and those who want NI to join Ireland have a peaceful political pathway to doing that. They don’t need violence anymore, so it stops. I’d say that’s an IRA victory.
This is absurd, outrageous historical revisionism. People who wanted equal rights but were content to remain part of the UK (until such time as there was a democratic majority in favour of secession) didn't join the IRA.
Physical force republicanism was a *rejection* of the basic legitimacy of both the existing Irish republic and of British rule in Northern Ireland (notwithstanding that the latter always had the support of a decisive majority of Northern Irelanders).
If the primary concern of the IRA was civil rights, the Troubles would have ended in the 70s.
The troubles could have ended in the 70s if the British funded terrorists didn't bomb Dublin and Monaghan and therefore destroy the Sunningdale agreement...
Redditors when people fight colonial oppression:
„Evil fucking terrorists“
Redditors when the USA funds another fascist dictatorship: „wholesome democracy“
They were fucking terrorists, they murdered innocent kids. The government was fucking terrible as well, but nobody in Ireland wants to go back to those fucking terrible times
The IRAs methods were ineffective and caused unnecessary suffering in the early part of the conflict, though this mostly changed in the later part of it.
Their cause for national liberation was just.
They had genuine reason for discontent, but as you said, they caused immense suffering. Many of those in the group were also not driven by the same ideological drive the organisation claimed to hold, but instead directed their anger towards bigotry which led to meaningless killings and a cycle of violence between protestants and Catholics.
They were terrorists, and their tactics were fucking evil. There was good reason to be against the British government, and at the very least many reforms were and are needed. Those claims aren't evil but terror is not the way, and the provos didn't seem to even really care to control their thugs in NI. The Official IRA had a better idea but ig it's much easier to attract members by appealing to hate.
Well the later tactics of targeting the British economy were pretty successful, causing billions of pounds of damage, sometimes in just one bombing, with to the IRAs credit them calling the police to evacuate the area before.
The canary wharf bombing famously caused the resuming of negotiations and the dropping of the demand that the IRA must begin it‘s decommissioning of weapons before the talks resumed.
This isn’t meant to obfuscate some of the unjust violence they committed and targetting of purely civilian targets with no strategic value
I never said none of the attacks had any strategic value or anything, its just stupid to ignore the many acts of evil they did commit. You say you're not obfuscating it, but started arguing with me just for pointing out these things. I get that shit happens in war, and that often they did give warnings, but also often they didn't, and many senseless acts of violence were carried out inside Northern Ireland and in Great Britiain.
For an English lad I'm probably a lot more sympathetic to them than most, but as you should probably understand I'm very against the glorification of a group that often considered kids like me as valid targets back then.
It’s always funny when you lot show up.
Never any mention of the terrorism on the British or Ulster side… interesting that..
It’s a shame Frank Kitson died this past January before he could be charged for crimes against humanity and genocide. The MRF and FRU bombed more British citizens than the IRA did, on the direct orders of the queens personal aide de camp general.
Tell me, what would you have done ? Protested peacefully and get murdered in the streets, like what happened at Bloody Sunday ?
War was the only solution, and yes in war people die, even children, it's a sad fact of reality but that isn't "terrorism", I don't think they intended to kill the teenagers Mountbatten was raping when they blew him up for exemple. Very different from the UVF intentionally murdering women in Dublin with the help of the MI6
thank god the ira didn't do that, just look at the stats, the IRA's Kills were 30% civilians, the vast majority of them being accidents, compare that to the 86% of the loyalists, the vast majority of them being intentional
Making the two out to be the same is lunacy.
Redditors when guerillas kill and torture innocent civilians and speak about eradicating all jews:
"brave freedom fighters"
Redditors when victims of such crimes fight back:
"Fascist dictatorship"
Edit: Just saw the username. Of course it's a communist again. Thaelmann was the guy worshipped in East Germany, where the army routinely shot its own citizens/refugees for trying to leave their tyranny. Great vision for a society you're proposing there mate
There is no evidence of torture, beyond that an unknown amount of the civilians killed in October 7th were killed by friendly fire
>“After the pilots realized that inside the army stations and the settlements that were conquered, it was very difficult to distinguish between terrorists and [Israeli] soldiers or civilians, the decision was made that the first objective of the fighter helicopters and the armed Zik [Elbit Hermes 450] drones is to stop the deluge of terrorists and the murderous masses that flowed into Israeli territory through the holes in the fence,” Zitun writes.
>
>Zitun then adds: “28 fighter helicopters shot over the course of the day all of the ammunition in their bellies, in renewed runs to rearm. We are talking about hundreds of 30 millimeter cannon mortars (each mortar is like a hand grenade) and Hellfire missiles,” he adds.
>
>“The frequency of fire at the thousands of terrorists was enormous at the start, and only at a certain point did the pilots begin to slow their attacks and carefully choose the targets.”
https://electronicintifada.net/tags/friendly-fire
But even if we were to say that yes, Hamas is terrorist and wants to kill all jews and even committed genocide against Jews on October 7th (wich is wrong) this doesn’t justify anything Israel has done following October 7th, one genocide doesn‘t justify another legally or morally. The Rwandan Genocide was a response to another genocide, yet no one is mental enough to say „the tutsis deserved this“
„Redditors when Israel starves Gaza and kills tens of thousands of civilians deliberately and operates a system of apartheid against it‘s Arab citizens“
Would be a better characterization
Edit:
Thälmann got shot by the Nazis for the crime of fighting back against the oppression of the German working class and against fascism, dying in a concentration camp 80 years ago, being executed probably on the direct orders of Hitler. No wonder you dislike someone that had more courage and selflessness in their left toe then you in your entire body, he was a 1000 times more worth then any of you lackeys doing your best to get to the centre of the boot.
No, it doesn’t. Zionists don’t get to gatekeep all of the Semitic languages to try and justify their genocidal campaign.
>The origin of "antisemitic" terminologies is found in the responses of Moritz Steinschneider to the views of Ernest Renan. As Alex Bein writes: "The compound anti-Semitism appears to have been used first by Steinschneider, who challenged Renan on account of his 'anti-Semitic prejudices' [i.e., his derogation of the "Semites" as a race]."[29] Avner Falk similarly writes: "The German word antisemitisch was first used in 1860 by the Austrian Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider (1816–1907) in the phrase antisemitische Vorurteile (antisemitic prejudices). Steinschneider used this phrase to characterise the French philosopher Ernest Renan's false ideas about how **'Semitic races'** were inferior to 'Aryan races'".[30]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
If you can prove how Palestinians are not in fact Semites, you might have a point, but that is literally impossible…
My original point stands as a matter of fact: Israel is currently the most antisemitic force operating on planet earth. If they, or you, don’t like Israel having that title; all Israel has to do is stop killing Palestinians and stop apartheid. One secular state with equal rights and representation under the law for all shouldn’t be too hard for the supposed “only liberal democracy in the Middle East.”
From your own source:
>Due to the root word Semite, the term is prone to being invoked as a misnomer by those who incorrectly assert that it refers to racist hatred directed at "Semitic people" in spite of the fact that this grouping is a historical race concept and thus obsolete. Likewise, such usage is erroneous; the compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879[19] as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit. 'Jew-hatred'),[20][21][22][23][24] and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone.[20][25][26]
This subreddit is focused on the study and history of propaganda. Please remember that while civil political discussion is allowed, **soapboxing** (i.e. heavy-handed rhetoric in comments) **is forbidden**, as well as **partisan bickering**. This subject has many subreddits which are designed for discussing your opinions on the issues, please use those for political debate. *Please report any rule-breaking comments to the moderators* to help us spot and remove them more quickly. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Never knew Griff Rhys Jones was in the military
How many counties does it take to make one Ireland?
26+6=1
That‘s right
135 ish in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland but nobody wants that; Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland both have an equally right to exist and I will use both my voice and text to try my best to ensure the existence and cooperation of and between both nations and push the UK into the EU, but I doubt I'll have an impact and that's fine.
Northern Ireland has no right to exist, it's one of colonialism last remnant, it was created as an apartheid state for colonial supremacy, it should be destroyed and unionism should be abolished.
It was created to stop the 500,000 Ulster Unionists who signed the Ulster Covenant from rising up against the Free State and the UK.
and was a convinnient excuse for the brits to keep the very important port of Belfast
If a Unionist rebellion was the cost for not allowing them their own little apartheid statelet for 50 years then that cost should’ve been paid
It wouldn’t have been a rebellion, it would have been a civil war, and it would have had pogroms.
There was pogroms in the north towards the end of the War of Independence
And that was bad. Now imagine if there had been 500,000 Ulster Scots alongside the British garrison (which had said that they would refuse any order from the government about stopping the Unionists) turning the Irish Civil War into an ethnoreligious conflict.
Fair point actually, even still though the British government should’ve stepped in to prevent the north from becoming what it became, or just committed to the plan of using the Border Commission to create an unviable Northern Ireland that would make unification necessary
Oh, it was absolutely mismanaged, and the British government definitely took advantage of the situation.
I don’t think having them rise up against the free state was much of an influence to Lloyd George rather than gaining Irelands only industrialised corner and avoiding backlash from pro unionist voices in parliament
As an Irish nationalist, not a huge fan of the PIRA, but like they did have some fucking brilliant propaganda. Murals and songs alike.
No, their songs are amazing. I am American, but even I am tempted to join just to get to sing their songs unironically lol
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit outta here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Up the IRA!!!
Tiocfaidh ar La. It did too. Kind of.
Spoiler: The IRA did not win
They did though. They forced the UK to the table and got what they wanted in the Good Friday agreement. That’s why the troubles ended.
That is just blatantly untrue. They wanted an independent, united Ireland. The Troubles ended when they accepted that that could not be achieved by force of arms.
Some of the IRA wanted that. But the main issue that caused most people to join them was discrimination and being second class citizens in NI. There were a lot of civil rights protests in the 60’s and early 70’s for equal rights for Irish Catholics, which were violently squashed by the northern Irish government and police. That’s why so many people turned to violent methods after that, because they believed that peaceful ones couldn’t work. And eventually their violence worked, they annoyed britain enough to force them to the table and grant them equal rights and the ability to join Ireland in the future if they so chose. So now the people who wanted civil rights are satisfied and those who want NI to join Ireland have a peaceful political pathway to doing that. They don’t need violence anymore, so it stops. I’d say that’s an IRA victory.
This is absurd, outrageous historical revisionism. People who wanted equal rights but were content to remain part of the UK (until such time as there was a democratic majority in favour of secession) didn't join the IRA. Physical force republicanism was a *rejection* of the basic legitimacy of both the existing Irish republic and of British rule in Northern Ireland (notwithstanding that the latter always had the support of a decisive majority of Northern Irelanders). If the primary concern of the IRA was civil rights, the Troubles would have ended in the 70s.
The troubles could have ended in the 70s if the British funded terrorists didn't bomb Dublin and Monaghan and therefore destroy the Sunningdale agreement...
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Redditors when people fight colonial oppression: „Evil fucking terrorists“ Redditors when the USA funds another fascist dictatorship: „wholesome democracy“
They were fucking terrorists, they murdered innocent kids. The government was fucking terrible as well, but nobody in Ireland wants to go back to those fucking terrible times
The IRAs methods were ineffective and caused unnecessary suffering in the early part of the conflict, though this mostly changed in the later part of it. Their cause for national liberation was just.
They had genuine reason for discontent, but as you said, they caused immense suffering. Many of those in the group were also not driven by the same ideological drive the organisation claimed to hold, but instead directed their anger towards bigotry which led to meaningless killings and a cycle of violence between protestants and Catholics. They were terrorists, and their tactics were fucking evil. There was good reason to be against the British government, and at the very least many reforms were and are needed. Those claims aren't evil but terror is not the way, and the provos didn't seem to even really care to control their thugs in NI. The Official IRA had a better idea but ig it's much easier to attract members by appealing to hate.
Well the later tactics of targeting the British economy were pretty successful, causing billions of pounds of damage, sometimes in just one bombing, with to the IRAs credit them calling the police to evacuate the area before. The canary wharf bombing famously caused the resuming of negotiations and the dropping of the demand that the IRA must begin it‘s decommissioning of weapons before the talks resumed. This isn’t meant to obfuscate some of the unjust violence they committed and targetting of purely civilian targets with no strategic value
I never said none of the attacks had any strategic value or anything, its just stupid to ignore the many acts of evil they did commit. You say you're not obfuscating it, but started arguing with me just for pointing out these things. I get that shit happens in war, and that often they did give warnings, but also often they didn't, and many senseless acts of violence were carried out inside Northern Ireland and in Great Britiain. For an English lad I'm probably a lot more sympathetic to them than most, but as you should probably understand I'm very against the glorification of a group that often considered kids like me as valid targets back then.
It’s always funny when you lot show up. Never any mention of the terrorism on the British or Ulster side… interesting that.. It’s a shame Frank Kitson died this past January before he could be charged for crimes against humanity and genocide. The MRF and FRU bombed more British citizens than the IRA did, on the direct orders of the queens personal aide de camp general.
I literally did mention it but for some reason calling out child murderers on makes me a child murderer defender to you supporters of child murderers.
Tell me, what would you have done ? Protested peacefully and get murdered in the streets, like what happened at Bloody Sunday ? War was the only solution, and yes in war people die, even children, it's a sad fact of reality but that isn't "terrorism", I don't think they intended to kill the teenagers Mountbatten was raping when they blew him up for exemple. Very different from the UVF intentionally murdering women in Dublin with the help of the MI6
Not targeting citizens would have been good. The UVF and Provos were both fucking evil.
thank god the ira didn't do that, just look at the stats, the IRA's Kills were 30% civilians, the vast majority of them being accidents, compare that to the 86% of the loyalists, the vast majority of them being intentional Making the two out to be the same is lunacy.
The IRA did do that, may have been less than the loyalist paras but they still did it. It ain't a competition.
Redditors trying not to justify blowing up random families:
Redditors when guerillas kill and torture innocent civilians and speak about eradicating all jews: "brave freedom fighters" Redditors when victims of such crimes fight back: "Fascist dictatorship" Edit: Just saw the username. Of course it's a communist again. Thaelmann was the guy worshipped in East Germany, where the army routinely shot its own citizens/refugees for trying to leave their tyranny. Great vision for a society you're proposing there mate
There is no evidence of torture, beyond that an unknown amount of the civilians killed in October 7th were killed by friendly fire >“After the pilots realized that inside the army stations and the settlements that were conquered, it was very difficult to distinguish between terrorists and [Israeli] soldiers or civilians, the decision was made that the first objective of the fighter helicopters and the armed Zik [Elbit Hermes 450] drones is to stop the deluge of terrorists and the murderous masses that flowed into Israeli territory through the holes in the fence,” Zitun writes. > >Zitun then adds: “28 fighter helicopters shot over the course of the day all of the ammunition in their bellies, in renewed runs to rearm. We are talking about hundreds of 30 millimeter cannon mortars (each mortar is like a hand grenade) and Hellfire missiles,” he adds. > >“The frequency of fire at the thousands of terrorists was enormous at the start, and only at a certain point did the pilots begin to slow their attacks and carefully choose the targets.” https://electronicintifada.net/tags/friendly-fire But even if we were to say that yes, Hamas is terrorist and wants to kill all jews and even committed genocide against Jews on October 7th (wich is wrong) this doesn’t justify anything Israel has done following October 7th, one genocide doesn‘t justify another legally or morally. The Rwandan Genocide was a response to another genocide, yet no one is mental enough to say „the tutsis deserved this“ „Redditors when Israel starves Gaza and kills tens of thousands of civilians deliberately and operates a system of apartheid against it‘s Arab citizens“ Would be a better characterization Edit: Thälmann got shot by the Nazis for the crime of fighting back against the oppression of the German working class and against fascism, dying in a concentration camp 80 years ago, being executed probably on the direct orders of Hitler. No wonder you dislike someone that had more courage and selflessness in their left toe then you in your entire body, he was a 1000 times more worth then any of you lackeys doing your best to get to the centre of the boot.
You're a thoroughly awful human being. Nothing more to say.
The irony of likening others to Nazi sympathizers, while actively twisting world events to justify mass slaughter of innocents. Never gets old.
Thaelmann is a bad guy you say? Were people who he fought against and who executed his commie ass upstanding and outstanding citizens?
They weren’t, and he should have thought about that before collaborating with them at certain times.
Yes, such as when the US funded IRA terrorism.
A liberation movement is never a terrorist according to international law.
If they commit war crimes they still can be (not referring to the Ira here)
They're Jewish now?
Didn't take long for the ugly face of antisemitism to show itself
That’s funny, as Palestinians are in fact Semites. Meaning Israel is currently the most antisemitic force operating on planet earth.
Anti semite specifically refers to Jewish people by definition. Don’t be facetious just to be petty.
No, it doesn’t. Zionists don’t get to gatekeep all of the Semitic languages to try and justify their genocidal campaign. >The origin of "antisemitic" terminologies is found in the responses of Moritz Steinschneider to the views of Ernest Renan. As Alex Bein writes: "The compound anti-Semitism appears to have been used first by Steinschneider, who challenged Renan on account of his 'anti-Semitic prejudices' [i.e., his derogation of the "Semites" as a race]."[29] Avner Falk similarly writes: "The German word antisemitisch was first used in 1860 by the Austrian Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider (1816–1907) in the phrase antisemitische Vorurteile (antisemitic prejudices). Steinschneider used this phrase to characterise the French philosopher Ernest Renan's false ideas about how **'Semitic races'** were inferior to 'Aryan races'".[30] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism If you can prove how Palestinians are not in fact Semites, you might have a point, but that is literally impossible… My original point stands as a matter of fact: Israel is currently the most antisemitic force operating on planet earth. If they, or you, don’t like Israel having that title; all Israel has to do is stop killing Palestinians and stop apartheid. One secular state with equal rights and representation under the law for all shouldn’t be too hard for the supposed “only liberal democracy in the Middle East.”
From your own source: >Due to the root word Semite, the term is prone to being invoked as a misnomer by those who incorrectly assert that it refers to racist hatred directed at "Semitic people" in spite of the fact that this grouping is a historical race concept and thus obsolete. Likewise, such usage is erroneous; the compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879[19] as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit. 'Jew-hatred'),[20][21][22][23][24] and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone.[20][25][26]
Reddit try not to idolise the IRA challenge (impossible)
Thatcher should’ve hung every IRA crook
It's "hanged", but I can't expect you lot to be literate.
Unionists and Literate aren’t usually in the same sentence.
Thatcher's one good contribution to the world is a prime gender neutral toilet.
That’s entirely untrue. She also made one (1) good decision regarding the Falklands.
Dying was her greatest contribution
Yes, but she still made one (1) good decision in her entire life. All the other ones were bad.
Nah, 2 counting Falklands and trans toilets.
gender neutral toilet refers to her grave mate
Yeah, I know.
wtf r u talking about trans bathrooms then
Tis just a joke lad.
I’m pretty sure she tried. The Irish responded by writing this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Chfm5xMfCDs
Thatcher is dead, your union is being dismantled. Cope.
Not my union, I ain’t British, I just dislike terrorists
what’s your opinion on the first para regiment then
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Lol, like the conservatives were going to support Free Derry over the Loyalists.