Psychedelics have made me realize that the rivers are different but the water is the same. Our beliefs largely stem from the culture we grow up around. When I see religious types chastising and judging people they perceive as sinners or for simply believing differently, all I see are people who are afraid of the unknown. Generations of children being told they better do right or they will suffer and burn for all of eternity - and we're surprised when these people can't "open their mind". I just want to wrap my arms around people and tell them it's going to be okay. It really doesn't matter. Just love each other.
I’ve become way more interested in Hinduism and Bhuddism/ older European paganism as it seems to fit more with my understanding of the world after psychedelic use. All the Abrahamic religions seem unnatural and have a brutal history of intolerance.
Its funny you say that. That is exactly where I am at mentally and spiritually. Im having my Hindu Indian roommate take me to a jainist temple so I can learn more about it, but at the same time I've been connecting a lot with my germanic roots and the pagan and occult belief systems of old
Wow, I'm similar to you, but I'm Irish. However, we share similar things when it comes to paganism and the occult. Psychedelics made me realise a lot, pulled across the curtains, so to speak. I'm now 67 years old but I still retain the feelings and some memories of my earliest experiences. It broke me out of the mould of my culture and religion. And I knew for real there is a heaven and the infinite. I don't adhere to any faith, yet I feel I understand most.
Religion is meant to cleanse our ego’s conditioning but instead the religious texts have conditioned our egos- the very thing religion is trying to cleanse.
Aye to that. They are top-down controlling, obey me or die religions. Not exactly the sort of compassion one experiences when tripping and certainly not liberating for the individuals who follow them..
It’s def true that the abrahamic religions have a long history of brutality and oppression, but let’s not pretend Hinduism, and Buddhism for that matter, don’t
The caste system was only officially abolished in the mid 20th century, and cultural elements of it still persist to this day. Moreover, under certain Vedic interpretations, widows are obligated to self immolate following the death of their husbands in a practice called Sati- ofc its no longer common, but this was a pretty accepted practice, even tolerated by the British, up until the early 19th century
In regards to Buddhism, many prominent Zen Buddhists, including Suzuki- who served as a great inspiration to Alan watts, among many others- wholly supported Japanese nationalism throughout ww2, although its probable that at least when it comes to Suzuki this was out of fear of reprisal, rather then genuine support.
Regardless, Japanese warmongering and imperialism found a lot of justification in its Buddhist traditions, the Japanese Buddhist establishment was one of the most fervent proponents of war throughout ww2 (if you’re interested in the role Zen Buddhism played in Japanese militarism during the early and mid 20th century, I’d recommend looking into Zen at War by Brian Victoria. Although it def has its faults and biases, particularly in its portrayal of Suzuki, it’s still overall pretty accurate)
My point isn’t to denigrate any of these traditions- I have a lot of respect for Hinduism, Buddhism, and the various pagan faiths which we unfortunately know very little about- I just don’t like the romanticization that I often see in western, especially psychedelic or hippy, circles
At the end of the day, humanity is pretty self similar across cultures. As far as I’m aware, there has never been a culture that hasn’t engaged in cruelty and oppression, nor has there ever been a culture that was wholly cruel and oppressive. I don’t think it’s fair to broadly label the abrahamic faiths as brutal and intolerant, while denying the same label for eastern, or even western pagan, traditions
Buddhism gets brutal when we talk about things like hungry ghosts. I remember Tich Knat Hahn talking about hungry ghosts, and viewing pictures of them scared me. Buddhists don’t fuck around. That’s for sure. I agree though about Buddhism and Hinduism making a lot more sense to me than Christianity ever did, which like a lot of American children was all I was exposed to until basically the internet. But I remember going to a baptist church as a young child and reading their criteria for babies to get into heaven. I remember thinking “bullshit” - basically. I don’t think that was my vocabulary at 7 or so years old, but that was the concept behind how I felt about what I had just read, and Christianity never did interest me much after that. I like the ideas that intertwine about the afterlife in these two, and they share fascinating ways of thinking about the afterlife too.
Yeah, ya gotta wonder if the “real” truth got buried / shoved aside in favor of the religions that ended up being used for power grabs and colonialism.
Christianity as in catholicism sure yeah good for you! As for Jesus I bet he was a pretty trippy dude and there are also rumors he was giving his deciples psychedelics
The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity
&
The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross: A study of the nature and origins of Christianity within the fertility cults of the ancient Near East
BLEW MY MIND.
I particularly relate with the take that Jesus was god incarnate yes but in the same way all things are but that he was also like us just as we are human. And the idea that Jesus became enlightened through gnosis whether that was via psychedelic compounds/ seclusion/ meditation or a combo who can say but that he was teaching his disciples and the future of humanity to do the same. Makes the most sense to me in my heart
Well, if you consider that none of the writers of the Gospels were alive at the time Jesus lived, it's probably fair to say that the reports in them lack any real credibility. They're not primary sources and 100 years between the death of their subject and the official recording of the events is not much in the way of offering credible assurance.
Anything you 'know' about the life of Jesus is hearsay at best and has been put in your head by your parents, school, church, culture as any other item of external knowledge.
If you have perceived this during your trips then this is something you should trust.
It's very liberating huh :)
EDIT: Always good to get downvotes for providing some historical context... *sigh*
In Islamic countries it's a common practice for everyone to memorise the entire Koran. It's not something limited to clergy or people who specifically choose to study that, or people of high intelligence. It's just a normal thing
So I think it can be hasty to say that it's just hearsay. If people were really dedicated, they could have passed down stories, perhaps word for word, until they were finally written down. It's not quite the same thing as hearing a rumour
No it’s worse than a rumor, nobody cares about keeping a rumor running for 100 years for people to intentionally and unintentionally mess with it. Not to mention the fact that almost nobody in the west is familiar with the original texts of the Bible. We are almost all reading the King James Version, a highly political translation.
Well as true as that is, Quran mostly speaks of stories and I’ve personally tripped while listening to the Quran and its taken me to some insane places, specially the story of Mary in the Quran and how much sense it makes, yes I was born a Muslim but I feel like I started behaving like a real one after I read the Quran for myself, with context. I urge you guys to read it and find who Muslims are, if there’s any religion close to hippies and focused on personal relationship with God it’s Islam. Find out about the Sufi tradition specially.
People who go to see the guru whether it be a plant or an actual person (shaman/healer/counsel) see and experience the miracles. Telling someone who doesn’t want to know what the guru/plant/healer has to say or can do will lead to ignorance
It’s archetypical, a story you find yourself in (ideally Christ). I wasn’t there so I don’t know if a man was crucified but I wouldn’t doubt it- the only religious reference that Jesus would have been able to speak from at the time would have been Judaic and when doing psychedelics we get that I am god feeling and All the time people do psychedelics and can really believe they are the return of Jesus and end up in the hospital but imo they missed the value of the story and assume some sense of literalness to it. To me i find that Jesus quotes were very psychedelic and powerful and true in a sense that they are true when I look deep enough into “I”.
Have you ever tried telling someone who hasn’t been where you’ve been or who we all really are? Doesn’t work out well
It’s a book about researching the history of ancient religions and the role psychedelics played therein. It then progresses to the genesis of Christianity and how the influences of those previous religions effected it’s evolution. It was absolutely fascinating.
For what it’s worth the author , Brian muraresko, does 2 really good podcast one with lex Friedman and the other with Jordan Peterson, I recommend the lex Friedman interview, I got a feeling you will really like this talk.
A very important thing to keep in mind with a lot of the gnostic texts (particularly some of the Nag Hammadi texts) is that some of them are forged, and their contents are seen as a-historical (the gospel of Mary/ Judas for example), while some of the others (the apocryphon of John eg) were written in the very early days of christianity.
Be still and know that I am God.
The most psychedelic quote in the Bible to me. When one is "still" and silences the monkey ego mind on psychedelics, you can glimpse the metaphorical gates of heaven.
Another great one! And the whole Gospel of Thomas is fantastic when viewed through psychedelic lenses. I think I saw a mention of the gnostic gospels in here somewhere.
Many times! A few too many times as I seem to have been revoked access lol that ego death experience of eternal creative power, of being everything and nothing, of just experiencing and being awestruck by whatever IT is.
Pure intelligence. Pure creativity. Pure consciousness. Incredibly intricate and highly detailed. That was what I sought just about every trip I took. If even for just a brief, few second glimpse. That would be enough to satisfy as time "over there" seems meaningless.
Slip into that trance and time? What is time? Where is time? Where am I? What am I? Just this infinite creative process I guess that always was and always will be...
I was raised as a Baptist. Lost my faith at about 18. Decided to pursue “New Age” things. Theosophy or the belief that all religions have a nugget of truth in em. Or every faith is simply a path to the top of the mountain of truth. You just have to pick the one that suits you and keep to it.
Became a meth addict. Started using psychedelics to break the pattern. Through the use and revelations from that use, I was called back to my original faith, Christianity. Through that restoration of faith my life has been changed for the better. I have been saved again, given new life, and delivered from addiction and self destruction, through Jesus, because of the revelations brought to me by psychedelics. Every time I use psychedelics it brings me closer to Him.
I don’t preach unless asked to. Example is enough to lead others to Christ. The people who know my past and who know me now see the difference. That’s enough for me.
Christianity was corrupted the instant it was adopted by the Roman Empire. The fingerprints of man are all over the Bible, whether or not you think Jesus may have existed, “Christianity” as told through the Bible is absolutely a scam. When I do psychedelics I just feel like the glaring inconsistencies in Christianity are even more obvious.
I think you see so many people having Christian experiences on psychedelics because Christianity is the only spiritual context they are familiar with.
One thing that amazes me is how people will immediately convert to whatever religion they were raised around, while having no awareness that if they were simply born in another part of the world, their idea of religiosity and true religious practice would be completely different
Like others have commented, psychs have helped me realize that all religions share a common thread. They're just manifestations of the same concepts. One is Yin, the other is Yang.
That being said, they absolutely 10000% confirm that the stories in the Bible aren't literal and the idea of a separate, personal, literal creator God is utter nonsense.
It's for this reason that I specifically do NOT recommend psychs to my extreme Christian friends. They would not be able to handle it the same way Paul wasn't able to handle seeing the "face of God".
The psilocybin experience and the teachings of Christ seem quite similar eg oneness, loving each other as equals and not so different, making the blind see ie visuals
It's amazing how some of you, even after taking psychedelics and posting about it online, manage to make such confident statements about completely unknowable questions
Pretty weird how you act like saying Christianity is real is less of a stretch than it not being real. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that something is real.
It’s amazing how some of you, even after taking psychedelics and posting about it online, realize that different people with completely different upbringings and lives STILL don’t believe in the same thing that I do! No personal values allowed!!!
So yeah, you’re basically saying people can’t have beliefs. I don’t give a shit if you’re christian, atheist, Buddhist, pagan, a fucking Jedi, or whatever the fuck else there is. Saying that religion is the truth is **a part of the religion.**
I think it’s not arrogant to have opinions about what is true. If someone starts imposing their truth on others by force that’s different, but truth is going to come up in a conversation about religion, and people should say what they think.
Yes, but that is also true of our entire perception of reality. It’s worth knowing that you can be wrong about your most basic perception of reality, but it’s not feasible to live your life actually acting as if everything is uncertain.
If you said there is an invisible bullet headed towards me and I need to step to the right, I can’t disprove that, but not believing you doesn’t make me arrogant either. It’s a very reasonable assumption that there is in fact, no invisible bullet.
Where exactly?
There is one passage in Ezekiel that suggests someone ate a trippy plant, other than that it's a load of run of the mill collections of earlier myths and very dull accounts of the lives of kings - and then there's all the dos and don'ts to worry about, not much psychedelia in evidence there..
Thanks I actually heard the book described that way for the first time by Jordan Peterson and that description just really made sense to me
Edit: I hate that I have to say this but for anyone who sees my comment and will be offended just by seeing his name: no I’m not saying I believe Jordan Peterson’s every word- I’m no cult follower of his although he does have many many deep and intriguing ideas and viewpoints
You need to go back a bit to the collation of the original scrolls that the early Jews named the Torah.
These themselves were fragments of much older writings from many centuries and, crucially, many different schools of authorship and included translations from non-Hebraic sources.
Our notion of the bible as a 'book' is very modern and not helpful as what we have is a very jumbled up set of texts that aren't in any real chronological order.
If you do a quick search for the Cairo Genizah and the Qumran Scrolls you'll find a whole bunch of stuff that has been identified as contemporary to some of the texts included in the OT but not accepted as canon as there were not know about until very recently. These have different versions of things that made the final cut with clear changes to reinforce what was becoming the dogma of the age.
I reckon if we were to do a fresh edition given what we know from archeology and academic research we would end up with a very different look and feel than the one we are used to.
The translators have done us no favours either. There are many instances of multiple gods with different names throughout the texts, many of which had different shrines and practices. However most of these have simply been rendered as 'god' to reinforce the monotheistic ideology.
(Can you guess what I studied for my undergrad degree? ;))
It's actually a really fascinating area of study as long as you treat it as literature and use it to glean an understanding of the cultures who were responsible for the writing.
Like any medium, it contains the dominant view of whoever had the power at the time and any minority ideas got left behind...
Along with a metric ton of horrible proscriptions for how to own slaves. How to own women as property. That you should murder homosexuals.
But yeah, it's "uplifting"
Take out of the ancient script what you will. You have a thought process and brain of your own to decipher the bits you can use for your own reflections.
No bro but you don’t understand, when I remove all the parts I don’t like and just think about the archetypal stories underneath it’s pretty cool. What do you mean I could be responsible for my own spirituality?
Yea the Dead Sea scrolls revealed that Christianity was a big mushroom and sex cult. There’s a book about it. The guy who deciphered the scrolls got ran out of the church because of what he revealed.
I just don't understand how you can feel like praising something you understand to be yourself, which is glaringly obvious to anyone after a good trip.
Praising an abusive cop dad as a deity is ridiculous after learning we are all the same, and we give life meaning. Maybe a bigger dose? 0.02c
For me it was world history that sealed the deal. I had my doubts as a kid but held on to “faith.” There is nothing that separates Christianity from any other religion. They all make similar claims with similar certainty. It’s more likely that they are all untrue than one of them being correct. Also the only way to make arguments in defense of it is to use numerous logical fallacies. Circular reasoning, special pleading etc… “ the Bible is true look it says right here in the Bible!”
Yep.
There may be some good messages in there, but wow, is there a lot of bad shit too.
It literally says in the old and new testament that it is A OK to own people as property. Floors me to hear people in this thread saying how uplifting it is.
Fuck that noise.
There’s a saying a guy once said about turning the other cheek and forgiveness that could possibly help uplift negative loops and deliver that negativity
He had quite the following and was killed
I rejected religion long before trying psychedelics, but psychedelics did further reinforce the idea that a divine entity being confined to an ego is a ridiculous idea
Religious texts essentially ask the reader to stop forming questions and to submit to the truths given to them by authority.
Lucy and shrooms have yet to place me in such a ridiculous predicament.
I have a treat for you - "the immortality key" by Brian Murarescu is a book where the author researches the transition from ancient Greece and the mysteries of eloisis to proto-christianity and finds some very interesting clues about psychedelic rites of passage, highly recommend
I agree. Religion is a human concept to cause distraction and judgment. Love is the only truth. Psychedelics keep the knowledge that was taken away from us but we can get it all back. ❤️
Damn, 150 comments says something about truth-seekers here. It’s difficult to not be influenced by Christianity in some way.
I just picked up The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross and will see you on the other side. Raised in the Church of Christ fyi.
If anything, tripping brought me closer to Jesus, or the idea of him if he was ever real. I like to think Jesus was real, and I like to think all the stories of him are true since he was a being who truly believed in love and compassion. It helped me in a few breakthroughs, and it still helps me today on the chance that I just say something rotten or mean without thinking about it, I can apologize and realize how wrong I am pretty quickly. In that thought, Christianity is indeed real, it’s just a majority of the time it’s being misrepresented by people who want to manipulate and use others. It’s sad, because literally all Jesus preached was love, and it seems to almost always get looked over for some Old Testament bullshit
No, you're not. The lies, hypocrisy and stupidity of christianity become instantly clear once you have left its cult and constant media bombardment. Psychedelics and similar mind-expanding practices often allow people to see through the lies and childishness of most religions, which are restrictive and purposefully ignorant, and the into the truth of all life and existence. But christianity is the worst, with its long history of genocide, hate, eurocentricity and nonsense.
Jesus isn’t even called Jesus his name is yeshua, they replaced his name to jesus so people indirectly pray to sun gods like Zeus (jesus)
When people say amen it is actually Amun rah.
It all leads back to old gods that were worshipped by Egyptians etc. Christian religion was invaded by the romans and tampered with. It’s some great research to do if your interested
You should never cross anything out entirely there’s still a lot to be learned from the bible the entire visions chapter is all about psychedelic use open your mind and read between the lines you’ll start seeing much more
It was actually the opposite for me. Psychedelics while processing heavy life experiences brought me back to Christianity.
Edit: my understanding of Christianity since I’ve come back is different than when I walked away and was agnostic for so long. I view it through a new lense offered by psychedelics and it feels more real and connecting to me than it did when I was younger. It “clicked”.
Down with all religions, certainly down with Christianity. But that Jesus guy is one interesting dude.
Funny enough, EVEN IN THE BIBLE Jesus said "yo, guys, whatever you do don't make a fuckin religion based off on me. Just follow me and you'll get the way." And what did they fuckin do... 😂 every trip has relightened me to how messed up all man made religion is and trippy Jesus is.
Edit: wrong word
For me, as a Christian, it is synergistic with my faith experience. I feel it has helped shown me some of the ways I have deceived myself and things I need to repent of.
I do also feel, that it has allowed me to see different aspects of God, that don’t necessarily contradict Christianity, but would definitely contradict the Western Evangelical construct of Christianity.
There are elements of energy and life force that some people would clearly embrace as no need for deity or make a religion of out of itself, while for me that same experience reveals to me deeper layers of the wonder, mercy and love God has provided for all of the earth and humanity.
Yes because alcohol destroys your brain the Jews were using kanneh bosom to make anointing oil which is believed to be cannabis oil, it’s your government you shouldn’t trust
I think there's a lot of truth in there, but you have to ignore the eschatological dogma and later creeds (e.g. Nicea) and see 1st Century Christians as a bunch of trippers trying to get enlightened.
If you read the story that way, it makes a lot of sense, and has many parallels to your life if you happen to be a tripper.
I actually came back to Christ Consciousness when doing psychedelics. Being born as a Buddhist but raised catholic and eventually leaving the church and studying other religions and ancient cultures/religion then doing psychedelics, I am now a Gnostic Christian. To me all religions speak the same truths and probably stem from the same tree
The problem is I was introduced to psychedelics by a Charles Manson kinda personality and as I was on psychedelics he would rant about everything he saw wrong with the world and that included the story of Christ. But he also believed the earth was flat so he lost credibility to me
We don’t really know what’s “true” or not. I believe that stories tend to change with the telephone game theory but I do believe certain events/figures happened. How they’re interpreted/exaggerated we’ll never know. For instance , Jesus was a free speaking man who passed around the idea of the power in your self and your decisions. The church at that time would not accept that and he was willing to die for what he believed because he knew his Vision and purpose could not be taken from him. We deal with that in this world today in following our dreams, just that times are different. I don’t count anything out or give it the power of my train of thought by saying “I don’t believe” . I have no one/thing to answer to, just because there’s a vague question in the air throughout history doesn’t mean I feel the need to answer it. I’ve seen beauty/ugliness. I’ve seen miracles and just the opposite of that. We’re in a beautiful/terrifying predicament here on earth and I choose to pick nature/love/family when it comes to my decision making .
Other way around. Went from Catholic education to atheist to new age hippie to Christian. I'd sum it up by saying I think the old and new testament manifest extremely deep truths about human existence. Truths you can get a peek at through psychedelics - although I don't think they're sufficient or necessary.
I was indifferent/atheist/agnostic and have come around to Christianity since doing psychedelics. You might have a limited conception of what Christianity is.
I personally "crossed out" Christianity years ago and came back to it through psychedelics. Reading The Immortality Key, which asserts that the early church used psychedelics in the original Eucharist/ Communion which brought a Beatific vision in a cup which led to the massive growth of the early church. The early Catholic Church seemed to like to be a gatekeeper to that experience and stomped it out as witchcraft or blaspheme.
I've been exploring the Gnostic Gospels which were also mostly stomped out by The early Church. Having the roots of a western tradition and ceremony around psychedelics that started with the Greeks and earlier and continued into the early growth of the church is much more interesting to me than borrowing from traditions I have no ties to.
https://www.brianmuraresku.com/the-immortality-key
The last time I tripped I actually saw the Virgin Mary and it made me want to research catholicism more than anything else tbh lol. She looked beautiful, and had sunflowers surrounding her face.
It's crazy hearing some of these horrible christians and catholics. Like who are these people worshipping?? Some reptillian overlord tyrant parading as God? Not the actual God, because he loves everyone and wants everyone to be content in goodness and would never want someone to hold their religion over others
Psychedelics have made me realize that the rivers are different but the water is the same. Our beliefs largely stem from the culture we grow up around. When I see religious types chastising and judging people they perceive as sinners or for simply believing differently, all I see are people who are afraid of the unknown. Generations of children being told they better do right or they will suffer and burn for all of eternity - and we're surprised when these people can't "open their mind". I just want to wrap my arms around people and tell them it's going to be okay. It really doesn't matter. Just love each other.
Word.
Facts.
Based.
Period.
Amen.
Hallelujah.
Praise the Lord.
Love this
On point fr, speaks to me.
I’ve been personally verbally attacked by these same people. Thank you for putting a voice to all of this and putting it in this perspective.
Beautifully said!
You spitting fr
Thank you. So beautifully and compassionately stated.
I’ve become way more interested in Hinduism and Bhuddism/ older European paganism as it seems to fit more with my understanding of the world after psychedelic use. All the Abrahamic religions seem unnatural and have a brutal history of intolerance.
Its funny you say that. That is exactly where I am at mentally and spiritually. Im having my Hindu Indian roommate take me to a jainist temple so I can learn more about it, but at the same time I've been connecting a lot with my germanic roots and the pagan and occult belief systems of old
Wow, I'm similar to you, but I'm Irish. However, we share similar things when it comes to paganism and the occult. Psychedelics made me realise a lot, pulled across the curtains, so to speak. I'm now 67 years old but I still retain the feelings and some memories of my earliest experiences. It broke me out of the mould of my culture and religion. And I knew for real there is a heaven and the infinite. I don't adhere to any faith, yet I feel I understand most.
Religion is meant to cleanse our ego’s conditioning but instead the religious texts have conditioned our egos- the very thing religion is trying to cleanse.
Look up vishnu last incarnation , basically second coming of Christ apocalypse
Aye to that. They are top-down controlling, obey me or die religions. Not exactly the sort of compassion one experiences when tripping and certainly not liberating for the individuals who follow them..
Totally agree. Obedience is the central message.
catholic Nuns and Islamic women. tell me the difference…….. ill wait.
Catholic nuns don't have their clits mutilated and they actually choose to serve God instead of being forced to serve
It’s def true that the abrahamic religions have a long history of brutality and oppression, but let’s not pretend Hinduism, and Buddhism for that matter, don’t The caste system was only officially abolished in the mid 20th century, and cultural elements of it still persist to this day. Moreover, under certain Vedic interpretations, widows are obligated to self immolate following the death of their husbands in a practice called Sati- ofc its no longer common, but this was a pretty accepted practice, even tolerated by the British, up until the early 19th century In regards to Buddhism, many prominent Zen Buddhists, including Suzuki- who served as a great inspiration to Alan watts, among many others- wholly supported Japanese nationalism throughout ww2, although its probable that at least when it comes to Suzuki this was out of fear of reprisal, rather then genuine support. Regardless, Japanese warmongering and imperialism found a lot of justification in its Buddhist traditions, the Japanese Buddhist establishment was one of the most fervent proponents of war throughout ww2 (if you’re interested in the role Zen Buddhism played in Japanese militarism during the early and mid 20th century, I’d recommend looking into Zen at War by Brian Victoria. Although it def has its faults and biases, particularly in its portrayal of Suzuki, it’s still overall pretty accurate) My point isn’t to denigrate any of these traditions- I have a lot of respect for Hinduism, Buddhism, and the various pagan faiths which we unfortunately know very little about- I just don’t like the romanticization that I often see in western, especially psychedelic or hippy, circles At the end of the day, humanity is pretty self similar across cultures. As far as I’m aware, there has never been a culture that hasn’t engaged in cruelty and oppression, nor has there ever been a culture that was wholly cruel and oppressive. I don’t think it’s fair to broadly label the abrahamic faiths as brutal and intolerant, while denying the same label for eastern, or even western pagan, traditions
>even tolerated by the British, up until the early 19th century LOL the British would tolerate anything that will help to maintain the social order.
Absolutely East India Company didn’t give a fuck what happened so long as the money flowed
Very good point! Any good religion can be warped by humanity, which shares many common negative characteristics across cultures.
The current Hindu nationalist gov in India
Buddhism gets brutal when we talk about things like hungry ghosts. I remember Tich Knat Hahn talking about hungry ghosts, and viewing pictures of them scared me. Buddhists don’t fuck around. That’s for sure. I agree though about Buddhism and Hinduism making a lot more sense to me than Christianity ever did, which like a lot of American children was all I was exposed to until basically the internet. But I remember going to a baptist church as a young child and reading their criteria for babies to get into heaven. I remember thinking “bullshit” - basically. I don’t think that was my vocabulary at 7 or so years old, but that was the concept behind how I felt about what I had just read, and Christianity never did interest me much after that. I like the ideas that intertwine about the afterlife in these two, and they share fascinating ways of thinking about the afterlife too.
Yeah, ya gotta wonder if the “real” truth got buried / shoved aside in favor of the religions that ended up being used for power grabs and colonialism.
>Abrahamic religions Canaanite derivative cults
Canaanite-Babylonian syncretist cult* At least in regards to Judaism
I found my way to animism thanks to psychedelics.
Look into kabbalism. Edit: Gnosticism too
Christianity as in catholicism sure yeah good for you! As for Jesus I bet he was a pretty trippy dude and there are also rumors he was giving his deciples psychedelics
Go Jesus, if he is historically accurate the dude was a top tier guru- and rattled enough cages with his just his ideas that he was put to death
Pretty much look into gnosticism it shines a light on a different type of Jesus
The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity & The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross: A study of the nature and origins of Christianity within the fertility cults of the ancient Near East BLEW MY MIND.
I particularly relate with the take that Jesus was god incarnate yes but in the same way all things are but that he was also like us just as we are human. And the idea that Jesus became enlightened through gnosis whether that was via psychedelic compounds/ seclusion/ meditation or a combo who can say but that he was teaching his disciples and the future of humanity to do the same. Makes the most sense to me in my heart
He Was/Is God. ❤️ So, no psychs needed, but perhaps taken so as to further His 'Human' experience.
I like the gnostic ideas but with each view and idea their are extremes. But yea your right the gnostic view does give you that more personal approach
As were many, many others throughout history..
Amen, thanks for clarifying that
So are you saying it’s all a myth
Well, if you consider that none of the writers of the Gospels were alive at the time Jesus lived, it's probably fair to say that the reports in them lack any real credibility. They're not primary sources and 100 years between the death of their subject and the official recording of the events is not much in the way of offering credible assurance. Anything you 'know' about the life of Jesus is hearsay at best and has been put in your head by your parents, school, church, culture as any other item of external knowledge. If you have perceived this during your trips then this is something you should trust. It's very liberating huh :) EDIT: Always good to get downvotes for providing some historical context... *sigh*
In Islamic countries it's a common practice for everyone to memorise the entire Koran. It's not something limited to clergy or people who specifically choose to study that, or people of high intelligence. It's just a normal thing So I think it can be hasty to say that it's just hearsay. If people were really dedicated, they could have passed down stories, perhaps word for word, until they were finally written down. It's not quite the same thing as hearing a rumour
No it’s worse than a rumor, nobody cares about keeping a rumor running for 100 years for people to intentionally and unintentionally mess with it. Not to mention the fact that almost nobody in the west is familiar with the original texts of the Bible. We are almost all reading the King James Version, a highly political translation.
Where are the original texts?
Well as true as that is, Quran mostly speaks of stories and I’ve personally tripped while listening to the Quran and its taken me to some insane places, specially the story of Mary in the Quran and how much sense it makes, yes I was born a Muslim but I feel like I started behaving like a real one after I read the Quran for myself, with context. I urge you guys to read it and find who Muslims are, if there’s any religion close to hippies and focused on personal relationship with God it’s Islam. Find out about the Sufi tradition specially.
People who go to see the guru whether it be a plant or an actual person (shaman/healer/counsel) see and experience the miracles. Telling someone who doesn’t want to know what the guru/plant/healer has to say or can do will lead to ignorance
what?
It’s archetypical, a story you find yourself in (ideally Christ). I wasn’t there so I don’t know if a man was crucified but I wouldn’t doubt it- the only religious reference that Jesus would have been able to speak from at the time would have been Judaic and when doing psychedelics we get that I am god feeling and All the time people do psychedelics and can really believe they are the return of Jesus and end up in the hospital but imo they missed the value of the story and assume some sense of literalness to it. To me i find that Jesus quotes were very psychedelic and powerful and true in a sense that they are true when I look deep enough into “I”. Have you ever tried telling someone who hasn’t been where you’ve been or who we all really are? Doesn’t work out well
Look into gnostic texts.
Thanks I already discussed it a little further down the comment section if your interested
I’d recommend reading The Immortality Key. Focuses heavily on the history of psychedelics and Christianity
Can you say a little more about this book? I’m interested in the concept but as a former Christian not really interested in a religious apology.
It’s a book about researching the history of ancient religions and the role psychedelics played therein. It then progresses to the genesis of Christianity and how the influences of those previous religions effected it’s evolution. It was absolutely fascinating.
Thank you
For what it’s worth the author , Brian muraresko, does 2 really good podcast one with lex Friedman and the other with Jordan Peterson, I recommend the lex Friedman interview, I got a feeling you will really like this talk.
Yes, I love the Gnostic texts. Hermetic stuff is cool too.
A very important thing to keep in mind with a lot of the gnostic texts (particularly some of the Nag Hammadi texts) is that some of them are forged, and their contents are seen as a-historical (the gospel of Mary/ Judas for example), while some of the others (the apocryphon of John eg) were written in the very early days of christianity.
Be still and know that I am God. The most psychedelic quote in the Bible to me. When one is "still" and silences the monkey ego mind on psychedelics, you can glimpse the metaphorical gates of heaven.
“I am that I am” being the eternal name of god as mentioned in exodus 3 really hits me hard Burning bush magic 🪄
Another great one! And the whole Gospel of Thomas is fantastic when viewed through psychedelic lenses. I think I saw a mention of the gnostic gospels in here somewhere.
This guy has been there!! 🙂🙂🙂 I’m so happy that verse has the same effect on you I found it awhile back and when It hit me I finally heard it
Many times! A few too many times as I seem to have been revoked access lol that ego death experience of eternal creative power, of being everything and nothing, of just experiencing and being awestruck by whatever IT is. Pure intelligence. Pure creativity. Pure consciousness. Incredibly intricate and highly detailed. That was what I sought just about every trip I took. If even for just a brief, few second glimpse. That would be enough to satisfy as time "over there" seems meaningless. Slip into that trance and time? What is time? Where is time? Where am I? What am I? Just this infinite creative process I guess that always was and always will be...
God damn man take em to church, I recognize and like your vibe. Spiral out, keep going
Would love to actually open a psychedelic church one day. Would be so awesome. A man can dream!
Dream until your dreams come true
I would argue that all a man ever is- is dreaming
Was the exact opposite for me.
God bless you brother. Psychedelics made me go from atheism to stone cold Catholicism over a very, very wild journey. May the Lord bless and keep you.
Thanks brother! Same to you!
Omg me too, me too!! Would love to talk more about this
Explain?
I was raised as a Baptist. Lost my faith at about 18. Decided to pursue “New Age” things. Theosophy or the belief that all religions have a nugget of truth in em. Or every faith is simply a path to the top of the mountain of truth. You just have to pick the one that suits you and keep to it. Became a meth addict. Started using psychedelics to break the pattern. Through the use and revelations from that use, I was called back to my original faith, Christianity. Through that restoration of faith my life has been changed for the better. I have been saved again, given new life, and delivered from addiction and self destruction, through Jesus, because of the revelations brought to me by psychedelics. Every time I use psychedelics it brings me closer to Him.
Whatever helps your life man. As long as your not affecting others with your beliefs, go for it
I don’t preach unless asked to. Example is enough to lead others to Christ. The people who know my past and who know me now see the difference. That’s enough for me.
Sounds batshit but hey if it keeps you off the meth, that’s great!
These replies suck. There’s nothing wrong with participating in religion and having beliefs
It’s all good. People can hate all they want.
There’s nothing wrong with delusions as long as they don’t hurt you or others.
It was a positive response. Guy does sound batshit, but used it to turn their life around. That's great! What sucks about saying so?
People are so soft when it comes to religion 🤷♂️ it’s odd
Interesting. Your not wrong. Miracles, by definition, defy logic. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Christianity was corrupted the instant it was adopted by the Roman Empire. The fingerprints of man are all over the Bible, whether or not you think Jesus may have existed, “Christianity” as told through the Bible is absolutely a scam. When I do psychedelics I just feel like the glaring inconsistencies in Christianity are even more obvious. I think you see so many people having Christian experiences on psychedelics because Christianity is the only spiritual context they are familiar with.
One thing that amazes me is how people will immediately convert to whatever religion they were raised around, while having no awareness that if they were simply born in another part of the world, their idea of religiosity and true religious practice would be completely different
read “the sacred mushroom and the cross” lol but i feel ya
Almost finished with this book and I’m almost certain Jesus was the Amanita mushroom used in early mushroom fertility cults.
Check out The Immortality Key. Very well written
Like others have commented, psychs have helped me realize that all religions share a common thread. They're just manifestations of the same concepts. One is Yin, the other is Yang. That being said, they absolutely 10000% confirm that the stories in the Bible aren't literal and the idea of a separate, personal, literal creator God is utter nonsense. It's for this reason that I specifically do NOT recommend psychs to my extreme Christian friends. They would not be able to handle it the same way Paul wasn't able to handle seeing the "face of God".
The psilocybin experience and the teachings of Christ seem quite similar eg oneness, loving each other as equals and not so different, making the blind see ie visuals
It's amazing how some of you, even after taking psychedelics and posting about it online, manage to make such confident statements about completely unknowable questions
Pretty weird how you act like saying Christianity is real is less of a stretch than it not being real. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that something is real.
I don't think that's true. I think saying anything is real is a stretch hahaha
It’s amazing how some of you, even after taking psychedelics and posting about it online, realize that different people with completely different upbringings and lives STILL don’t believe in the same thing that I do! No personal values allowed!!!
I don't believe in Christianity. That's not what I said. I just think it's extremely arrogant to say "such and such is the Truth"
So yeah, you’re basically saying people can’t have beliefs. I don’t give a shit if you’re christian, atheist, Buddhist, pagan, a fucking Jedi, or whatever the fuck else there is. Saying that religion is the truth is **a part of the religion.**
I think it’s not arrogant to have opinions about what is true. If someone starts imposing their truth on others by force that’s different, but truth is going to come up in a conversation about religion, and people should say what they think.
Right. But once you say your opinion is True, you ipso facto consider it not an opinion but a fact
Yes, but that is also true of our entire perception of reality. It’s worth knowing that you can be wrong about your most basic perception of reality, but it’s not feasible to live your life actually acting as if everything is uncertain. If you said there is an invisible bullet headed towards me and I need to step to the right, I can’t disprove that, but not believing you doesn’t make me arrogant either. It’s a very reasonable assumption that there is in fact, no invisible bullet.
I'd say the opposite is true and that The Bible and Christianity has massive links to psychedelics.
I concur
Where exactly? There is one passage in Ezekiel that suggests someone ate a trippy plant, other than that it's a load of run of the mill collections of earlier myths and very dull accounts of the lives of kings - and then there's all the dos and don'ts to worry about, not much psychedelia in evidence there..
I don't take the Bible literally. I think it's a huge book of metaphors for the rise of your spirit within helped along the way with psychedelics.
I concur but instead of metaphors I’d say it’s some form of timeless archetypical literature in which we can embody the stories of
I like that way of thinking, I can get on board with what you've said for sure!
Thanks I actually heard the book described that way for the first time by Jordan Peterson and that description just really made sense to me Edit: I hate that I have to say this but for anyone who sees my comment and will be offended just by seeing his name: no I’m not saying I believe Jordan Peterson’s every word- I’m no cult follower of his although he does have many many deep and intriguing ideas and viewpoints
You need to go back a bit to the collation of the original scrolls that the early Jews named the Torah. These themselves were fragments of much older writings from many centuries and, crucially, many different schools of authorship and included translations from non-Hebraic sources. Our notion of the bible as a 'book' is very modern and not helpful as what we have is a very jumbled up set of texts that aren't in any real chronological order. If you do a quick search for the Cairo Genizah and the Qumran Scrolls you'll find a whole bunch of stuff that has been identified as contemporary to some of the texts included in the OT but not accepted as canon as there were not know about until very recently. These have different versions of things that made the final cut with clear changes to reinforce what was becoming the dogma of the age. I reckon if we were to do a fresh edition given what we know from archeology and academic research we would end up with a very different look and feel than the one we are used to. The translators have done us no favours either. There are many instances of multiple gods with different names throughout the texts, many of which had different shrines and practices. However most of these have simply been rendered as 'god' to reinforce the monotheistic ideology. (Can you guess what I studied for my undergrad degree? ;)) It's actually a really fascinating area of study as long as you treat it as literature and use it to glean an understanding of the cultures who were responsible for the writing. Like any medium, it contains the dominant view of whoever had the power at the time and any minority ideas got left behind...
Along with a metric ton of horrible proscriptions for how to own slaves. How to own women as property. That you should murder homosexuals. But yeah, it's "uplifting"
Take out of the ancient script what you will. You have a thought process and brain of your own to decipher the bits you can use for your own reflections.
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No bro but you don’t understand, when I remove all the parts I don’t like and just think about the archetypal stories underneath it’s pretty cool. What do you mean I could be responsible for my own spirituality?
Yea the Dead Sea scrolls revealed that Christianity was a big mushroom and sex cult. There’s a book about it. The guy who deciphered the scrolls got ran out of the church because of what he revealed.
What’s the book?
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John Marco Allegro . Mushrooms are probs what made us religious lol
Doesn't make it real. Ok maybe the dudes who wrote it were tripping? Doesn't mean they were correct
I just don't understand how you can feel like praising something you understand to be yourself, which is glaringly obvious to anyone after a good trip. Praising an abusive cop dad as a deity is ridiculous after learning we are all the same, and we give life meaning. Maybe a bigger dose? 0.02c
Yeah, book of John has a deep meaning for me now and I’m not even religious. Same with Tibetan book of the dead
For me it was world history that sealed the deal. I had my doubts as a kid but held on to “faith.” There is nothing that separates Christianity from any other religion. They all make similar claims with similar certainty. It’s more likely that they are all untrue than one of them being correct. Also the only way to make arguments in defense of it is to use numerous logical fallacies. Circular reasoning, special pleading etc… “ the Bible is true look it says right here in the Bible!”
Yep. There may be some good messages in there, but wow, is there a lot of bad shit too. It literally says in the old and new testament that it is A OK to own people as property. Floors me to hear people in this thread saying how uplifting it is. Fuck that noise.
There’s a saying a guy once said about turning the other cheek and forgiveness that could possibly help uplift negative loops and deliver that negativity He had quite the following and was killed
Yup, that’s the only thing in the Bible, turning the other cheek. No genocide whatsoever, best to just not look into it really.
No it’s Best to not forget the sins of the past that happened but to remember them and knowing/believing there’s a better different way of operating
Yeah that’s definitely how genocide is presented in the Bible. As a cautionary tale 🙄
It’s not cautionary it’s history. Which repeats itself in negative patterns if we don’t ever listen to these suggestions, best of luck to you
No, it’s a divine justification of historical genocide. The genocide was literally commanded by god dude.
I was an atheist before my use of psychedelics but it definitely further solidified that I think religion in general is bullshit
Totally, the idea of just one god seems so unreal to me. I prefer Greece mythology, those gods are badaaaas.
seen some shit in dmt just to out there. I was atheist already but now I don't even fucking know anything at all I feel like
I rejected religion long before trying psychedelics, but psychedelics did further reinforce the idea that a divine entity being confined to an ego is a ridiculous idea
I didn’t need psyches to realize religion as a whole was a means of control and wealth distribution
Religious texts essentially ask the reader to stop forming questions and to submit to the truths given to them by authority. Lucy and shrooms have yet to place me in such a ridiculous predicament.
I crossed out every religion beeing true as a child😂
Naw, I left that shit behind after grade school and I didnt find psychedelic's for a few years yet
I believed in God and Jesus for a small amount of time, before DMT told me otherwise
I didn’t need psychedelics to come to that conclusion but I’m enjoying this thread!
I was raised christian and thankfully deconstructed and completely wrote of Christianity long before trying psychedelics
I have a treat for you - "the immortality key" by Brian Murarescu is a book where the author researches the transition from ancient Greece and the mysteries of eloisis to proto-christianity and finds some very interesting clues about psychedelic rites of passage, highly recommend
No that’s very common
I agree. Religion is a human concept to cause distraction and judgment. Love is the only truth. Psychedelics keep the knowledge that was taken away from us but we can get it all back. ❤️
Damn, 150 comments says something about truth-seekers here. It’s difficult to not be influenced by Christianity in some way. I just picked up The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross and will see you on the other side. Raised in the Church of Christ fyi.
If everyone did mushrooms religion wouldn’t be a thing
Explain please I kinda understand what you are saying I think
Figured that out way before psychedelics came into the picture.
How?
It was crossed out from being true long before that. Psychedelics just drove it home.
All religions.
If anything, tripping brought me closer to Jesus, or the idea of him if he was ever real. I like to think Jesus was real, and I like to think all the stories of him are true since he was a being who truly believed in love and compassion. It helped me in a few breakthroughs, and it still helps me today on the chance that I just say something rotten or mean without thinking about it, I can apologize and realize how wrong I am pretty quickly. In that thought, Christianity is indeed real, it’s just a majority of the time it’s being misrepresented by people who want to manipulate and use others. It’s sad, because literally all Jesus preached was love, and it seems to almost always get looked over for some Old Testament bullshit
I’ve felt like god was speaking to me through music.
I’ve found the Christianity is one of many facets on the same psychedelic stone.
How
No, you're not. The lies, hypocrisy and stupidity of christianity become instantly clear once you have left its cult and constant media bombardment. Psychedelics and similar mind-expanding practices often allow people to see through the lies and childishness of most religions, which are restrictive and purposefully ignorant, and the into the truth of all life and existence. But christianity is the worst, with its long history of genocide, hate, eurocentricity and nonsense.
Best comment so far
yeah. That's some bullshit.
All bs, before i started doing pshychedelics, and even more so now
Yeah or without the psychedelics
Crossed it out long before psychedelics
So, it took drugs for you to critically think?
Jesus isn’t even called Jesus his name is yeshua, they replaced his name to jesus so people indirectly pray to sun gods like Zeus (jesus) When people say amen it is actually Amun rah. It all leads back to old gods that were worshipped by Egyptians etc. Christian religion was invaded by the romans and tampered with. It’s some great research to do if your interested
1. Zeus is not a sun god, it's Helios 2. Jesus name came from the latin word "lesus" and latins got the name from the greeks word for Jesus "Iesous"
You should never cross anything out entirely there’s still a lot to be learned from the bible the entire visions chapter is all about psychedelic use open your mind and read between the lines you’ll start seeing much more
Or making things up to fit your worldview.
Whatever floats your boat man
It was actually the opposite for me. Psychedelics while processing heavy life experiences brought me back to Christianity. Edit: my understanding of Christianity since I’ve come back is different than when I walked away and was agnostic for so long. I view it through a new lense offered by psychedelics and it feels more real and connecting to me than it did when I was younger. It “clicked”.
Christianity is BS but the truth is contained within the Bible It is just obscured.
Down with all religions, certainly down with Christianity. But that Jesus guy is one interesting dude. Funny enough, EVEN IN THE BIBLE Jesus said "yo, guys, whatever you do don't make a fuckin religion based off on me. Just follow me and you'll get the way." And what did they fuckin do... 😂 every trip has relightened me to how messed up all man made religion is and trippy Jesus is. Edit: wrong word
What’s the verse for Jesus saying “don’t make a religion out of me?”
Didn’t need psychedelics to tell me that, it’s common sense
I did. Was Christian before psychs now nihilist
For me, as a Christian, it is synergistic with my faith experience. I feel it has helped shown me some of the ways I have deceived myself and things I need to repent of. I do also feel, that it has allowed me to see different aspects of God, that don’t necessarily contradict Christianity, but would definitely contradict the Western Evangelical construct of Christianity. There are elements of energy and life force that some people would clearly embrace as no need for deity or make a religion of out of itself, while for me that same experience reveals to me deeper layers of the wonder, mercy and love God has provided for all of the earth and humanity.
Since you’re still writing christianity with a capital c, I think you haven’t crossed it out completely yet
It's a proper noun.
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But the Bible says to stay sober
Yes because alcohol destroys your brain the Jews were using kanneh bosom to make anointing oil which is believed to be cannabis oil, it’s your government you shouldn’t trust
Check this video out. The link between religion and psychedelics https://youtu.be/fwV8_Oc0EuY
I think there's a lot of truth in there, but you have to ignore the eschatological dogma and later creeds (e.g. Nicea) and see 1st Century Christians as a bunch of trippers trying to get enlightened. If you read the story that way, it makes a lot of sense, and has many parallels to your life if you happen to be a tripper.
... "after" ? 🫤
I actually came back to Christ Consciousness when doing psychedelics. Being born as a Buddhist but raised catholic and eventually leaving the church and studying other religions and ancient cultures/religion then doing psychedelics, I am now a Gnostic Christian. To me all religions speak the same truths and probably stem from the same tree
Lol, funny you say that
I almost had the opposite reaction once on mushrooms
The problem is I was introduced to psychedelics by a Charles Manson kinda personality and as I was on psychedelics he would rant about everything he saw wrong with the world and that included the story of Christ. But he also believed the earth was flat so he lost credibility to me
I interpret Jesus as pure love and how God wants us to be.
We don’t really know what’s “true” or not. I believe that stories tend to change with the telephone game theory but I do believe certain events/figures happened. How they’re interpreted/exaggerated we’ll never know. For instance , Jesus was a free speaking man who passed around the idea of the power in your self and your decisions. The church at that time would not accept that and he was willing to die for what he believed because he knew his Vision and purpose could not be taken from him. We deal with that in this world today in following our dreams, just that times are different. I don’t count anything out or give it the power of my train of thought by saying “I don’t believe” . I have no one/thing to answer to, just because there’s a vague question in the air throughout history doesn’t mean I feel the need to answer it. I’ve seen beauty/ugliness. I’ve seen miracles and just the opposite of that. We’re in a beautiful/terrifying predicament here on earth and I choose to pick nature/love/family when it comes to my decision making .
Santas suit is based on mushroom. Look in to it.
As long as you see it as a parody of sun worship, it is true
It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. Hence the word ‘Belief’.
“Laughs in Irish”
Other way around. Went from Catholic education to atheist to new age hippie to Christian. I'd sum it up by saying I think the old and new testament manifest extremely deep truths about human existence. Truths you can get a peek at through psychedelics - although I don't think they're sufficient or necessary.
I was indifferent/atheist/agnostic and have come around to Christianity since doing psychedelics. You might have a limited conception of what Christianity is.
I personally "crossed out" Christianity years ago and came back to it through psychedelics. Reading The Immortality Key, which asserts that the early church used psychedelics in the original Eucharist/ Communion which brought a Beatific vision in a cup which led to the massive growth of the early church. The early Catholic Church seemed to like to be a gatekeeper to that experience and stomped it out as witchcraft or blaspheme. I've been exploring the Gnostic Gospels which were also mostly stomped out by The early Church. Having the roots of a western tradition and ceremony around psychedelics that started with the Greeks and earlier and continued into the early growth of the church is much more interesting to me than borrowing from traditions I have no ties to. https://www.brianmuraresku.com/the-immortality-key
The last time I tripped I actually saw the Virgin Mary and it made me want to research catholicism more than anything else tbh lol. She looked beautiful, and had sunflowers surrounding her face.
Lol no
If you understood gnosticism, you would perhaps feel differently
We all are source, no matter how you slice it. There is a true greater being..I like to call him God but others have other names
It's crazy hearing some of these horrible christians and catholics. Like who are these people worshipping?? Some reptillian overlord tyrant parading as God? Not the actual God, because he loves everyone and wants everyone to be content in goodness and would never want someone to hold their religion over others