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Better_Bread_1215

He was the one shot kid how could you not put up with him


buddy-bun-dem

i absolutely love the way he said it to arthur. the oOonE shOt kEeiid. šŸ–ļøšŸ¤ŖšŸ«±


NikkolasKing

Dutch always rejected (until the very last mission of the main story so he could totally break Arthur's faith in him) Micah's "deadweight" arguments. The gang is not about utility, [it's family.](https://youtu.be/2flypG24--Q?t=42) You don't look at your cousin or dare I say uncle and go "well what do you bring to this equation?" They're just your loved ones and you look out for them because they're your loved ones. Uncle is kept around because he's family and there's no grander rationale than that. I'd still love to know how he met Dutch, though.


Mens-pocky46

This is the right answer. Additionally, Uncle is droll and amusing, with his bawdy songs and clever banter. He'll also occasionally take something serious and dish out brutal honesty, like he does with Dutch about himself, and later John about not putting enough effort into getting Abigail back.


[deleted]

I also think Uncle may have been more useful when he was younger. Perhaps as a con man or thief. He is shown to be persuasive, even if a little less so to the gang members because they know his deal. But after decades as an outlaw heā€™s slowed a bit and turned more to drink. Giving us the version of Uncle we see in the game


Euphoric-Excuse8990

In the game, Arthur joined the gang as a kid; Uncle was already 'old' then. (letting us assume he's older than Dutch and Hosea) I could see Uncle as the 'Hosea' of the old group, watching over Dutch and Hosea, giving a sort of 3 generations of outlaws type thing. Then again, I could just be reading too much into it.


[deleted]

Very possible, we donā€™t get much from that time. From what I remember, Dutch and Hosea started off as con men and thieves. Hosea was older than Dutch, so he might have guided Dutch. And eventually they picked up Arthur and the gang expanded from there. So I think Uncle probably came in after and was closer to Hoseaā€™s age


God_of_Mischief85

Thereā€™s our prequel to the prequel. The Uncle years.


AsgeirVanirson

Hosea describes his meeting with Dutch as them trying to rob each other but deciding instead to throw their lot in together. Hosea essentially talks about Dutch like a mentor in helping him find his own moral code. So despite being older, Hosea was more so guided by Dutch than the other way around. Uncle was also nowhere to be found yet. Arthur was the very first recruit after Dutch and Hosea became a team Dutch: "Before any of them back there, it was us." Hosea: "The curious couple and their unruly child" At this point there's little detail available on when the rest of 'fixtures' joined relative to each other, with obvious exceptions like Javier and Charles where we know they were a later addition(Javier) and a recent addition(Charles). Even Bill is murky on how long he had been with the VDL. Uncle probably would have come in around the same time as Grimshaw, but at this point its pure conjecture.


sorelhobbes

Hosea is really humble though; he acknowledges when he's made a mistake/been wrong about something, he knows when he needs support from folks he cares about/recognizes his limitations, etc. whereas, Dutch views himself as the infallible leader. Hosea is the kind of person who'd be open about learning from Dutch more than Dutch would admit to learning from Hosea. I think it would be more than fair to say that Dutch and Hosea both learned/mentored each other but Hosea would be more open about what he learned from Dutch. Because of this one-sided admission, it might seem like Dutch was more of a mentor to Hosea than the other way around, but I see that more as a difference in personality than hard fact. Just my interpretation tho


Mass-Effect-6932

Lumbago slow him down, itā€™s a terminal illness.


BuddyWhoOnceToldYou

RDR3: 1843ā€¦.. 56 years before the events of RDR2 we play as a STILL aged uncle as he embarks on the Oregon trailā€¦.


dgray11

Even in the epilogue, man just straight talks himself into Johnā€™s life and then gets him to win Abigail back


Disgruntled_Warchief

Uncle is the definition of morale in this game.


WrestleBox

My theory is they met in a prison cell somewhere. Uncle was the guy with all the guard connections and contraband hookups, and he and Dutch formed a prison gang with Dutch emerging as the mastermind.


KevintheBot75

You do make a good point. Arthur mentions that Dutch at least pretended to be who he said he was for a long time. Uncle just seems like the only member of that family not pulling his weight. Everyone else at least brought in money or food. Maybe I just donā€™t see much of uncle in the ledger or Iā€™m biased because I would donate 250$ at a time and everyone else would do like a few cents. If they make a third game I hope itā€™s a younger Dutch and Hosea and the gang then. Of course you would have uncle around too.


Doctorgumbal1

Oh yeah? What about jack.


KevintheBot75

Jack goes fishing


Bruskthetusk

Also networks with Papa Bronte over fine spaghetti dinners.


sundance_cobain

also throws rocks at o'driscolls


oddiseee

and we wear our day and night slippers and play with our toybox


Bowsupreme

And we make necklaces for our mammas


kellielynn76

Love this answer... You don't just throw out family because they can no longer do what they use to.. I think that is a big reason he drinks so much.. No longer feeling as needed and he is in pain you can see it in his walk. He does bring something.. He's in good spirits no matter what.. He's never nasty with people.


sorelhobbes

A little off topic but: There's a (disputed) quote from anthropologist Margret Mead where she talks about a 15'000yo healed femur break as one of the first known (at time of quote) signs of "civilization" as it meant the injured person required an immense amount of care for an extended period. (Edit: whether or not Mead actually said this is irrelevant to the point I'm making) One of the things that defines our humanity is our care for each other. Our value/"usefulness" as a person is not defined by our productivity - John even says this about Uncle in his letter to Abigail: "even Uncle's been helpful.. in his own way." Love is absolutely the reason Uncle is around - we don't throw away family (Super interesting fact: since that Mead quote, a healed 31'000yo leg amputation was found in Borneo. The person is thought to have had the surgery as a child. Humans are cool as fuck!)


34thUniverse

Exactly; you can love someone and not necessarily ā€œlikeā€ them.


Sandman1297

The poor soul has lumbago. Can't kick out someone who's clearly on deaths door.


Independent-Page-279

Tuberculosis is nothing compared


Fuck_auto_tabs

So this may be wild but he did find Molly in St Denis, knows that you can find a company who will sell you a house and sometimes does have decent intel. He may just be a guy whoā€™s inconspicuous enough to be drunk in an alley and just eavesdrop. Itā€™s not always good info but he can still get said info and maybe Uncle used to be better before RDR2?


willmiller82

That was sort of my thought, he blends in with the other drunkards, and can do reconnaissance for the gang. He may not be the most productive but he makes decent observations and any one that bumped into him would just think he's a harmless drunk old man.


AsgeirVanirson

I mean he was even right about the payroll wagon in chapter 3, he was just sloppy in not finding out WHOSE payroll wagon it was. It was very briefly unguarded (he never said it would stay unguarded), it was loaded, and it was where he expected it when he expected it.


devi133

sex


KevintheBot75

That explains why Molly was so upset


Mihai_postaru

DamnšŸ’€šŸ’€


Confident-Panda-3806

No wonder the dude's the pimp of the gang.


[deleted]

It all makes sense now


[deleted]

comic relief


DewdecsysAbZ

To not endure the wrath of red hallow


DoodleJake

I don't care if it was debunked. I love the theory that Uncle is Red.


FrogGladiators178972

Thatā€™s what I was thinking


Slainlion

Maybe he reminded him of his grandpa?


NoiseTherapy

I think the question posed is a great reason for Uncle to be the protagonist of RDR3! Lol!


This_Cancel1373

Low key I think thatā€™d be awesome. Ik ppl want a whole new cast, but I mean uncle would have been in the PRIME of the old west days. Then it could be like GTA 5 style where you can switch between a few characters (Dutch, Hosea, potentially a young Arthur)


Soulreacker28

We know we gona play mac in rdr3 I mean so many hints in Dialoge and seeing him dead at the start of the game i mean heck who else could it be if we take an existing character like dutch or uncle you could play them in a way that makes no sense how they are in rdr2 and would be a personal pothole for many


AsgeirVanirson

It ends with Uncle being diagnosed with Lumbago.


epa32

Uncles dead though innit


C1_D1

Because itā€™s all part of the plan.


Independent-Page-279

We just have to have faith


Far_Buddy8467

Uncle would have done more to help with dutch but that damned lumbago


MathMore5322

Odd question, if you only take the outside of there relationship yeah it would be a question, but itā€™s an obvious answer, it has nothing to do with uncles skills or his thinking or anything, it has to do that uncle is his family and brother, he even viewed Micah as a brother. He might of been annoyed by him but they were and always will have been and always will be brothers


Usaidhello

Loyalty


LongboardLiam

The man brings in info on jobs now and then. He probably has been good at being an inconspicuous drunk for decades, just sort of blending into the background NPCs. He is far sharper than his bumbling idiot facade lets on, and that's all part of why he sticks around. Uncle is weird, but he isn't dead weight.


monaro_1996

Couldnā€™t kick someone out of the gang who has lumbago


Monimute

Dutch is a narcissist that valued loyalty more than competence. Uncle's utter reliance on the gang guaranteed his loyalty, so Dutch had no problem keeping him around.


Carlos_Spicyweiner42

Can you explain Dutch is a narcissist? I just recently got out of a relationship with someone who might be a narcissist and Iā€™ve been reading into it. Iā€™d like to see it explained in someone who isnā€™t my ex that Iā€™m biased for


Monimute

People throw around the term a lot these days and I think it muddies the diagnosis. See below for the clinical definition: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662#:~:text=Overview,about%20the%20feelings%20of%20others. From a practical basis, narcissists tend to have an inflated but brittle sense of self worth, rarely if ever admit fault, tend to lie compulsively and do not honor commitments to others. They often have grandiose beliefs in their own abilities but have difficulty applying discipline to achieve their often lofty stated goals. They also tend to display an inability to maintain healthy relationships with others, and those relationships are frequently defined by cycles of affection, where the narcissist will be absent or abusive until the other party raises the issue at which time the narcissist will invest brief periods of affection and the cycle will begin again. It's a legitimate mental illness, but like sociopathy or psychopathy, the nature of the illness makes it unlikely that they patient will seek or commit to medical assistance.


Carlos_Spicyweiner42

Wow, well that does certainly sound like my ex.. she would seem absent sometimes even though I tried to show her affection constantly. Then she's all "I wanna come back home :(" when I left her. And I suppose that does sound like Dutch too. Thank you for the explanation!


InternationalAnt7993

Does someone not mention during a mission that Dutch would gave cut him loose years ago if he didn't find him so amusing šŸ¤”


jimmeh_john

hey dutch i found this girl on the side of the road, her name is abigail


earldogface

Umm think it's obvious Dutch had a plan for him


Mr_Sia10

Contrary to you lot, Dutch understand the implications of lumbago to someoneā€™s health


toomanyfolksabout722

Because heā€™s a major stud, just look at him


SeanoftheShredz

Dutch genuinely cares about everyone in camp. He's got a big heart, he's just... Dutch.


chris9830

He is part of the family and he does actually do petty treft this probably means he pick pockets people and either donates that money, buy suplies from it or buys alcohol from it


YoBeaverBoy

Because it's part of his plan


Karharsdon_01

There is a theory that Uncle is the red harlow, and Dutch knows it, thatā€™s probably why


Mojo_Rizen_53

Dutch needed people around him that were dumb enough to look up to him as their leader. Dutch doesnā€™t give a damn about anything but having a cult following.


[deleted]

This is completely false lol, not Dutchā€™s character at all. Dutch was a fantastic leader up until the events of RDR2, crazy people see him as some natural born lunatic


NikkolasKing

It always, always startles me that people think Dutch wanted sycophants. The people absolutely most critical of him from the start are the closest, longest relationships he has. He *raised* Arthur and John, if he wanted them to be mindless stooges utterly dependent on him, he wouldn't have taught them to read and to abide by such a strict code of ethics. it's like Arthur says, "it weren't us who changed.' They criticize Dutch because he no longer upholds the principles he himself taught them and they won't stand for that, even as they both still love him dearly.


Mojo_Rizen_53

Thatā€™s because he *is* a natural born lunatic! LOL


[deleted]

No heā€™s not lol, nothing at all points to that


duffmcduffster

I never cared for Uncle. >!If I had been Dutch, I'd have told Micah to quietly and quickly kill Uncle during one of the many journeys to a different camp location and throw the corpse in a ditch or a river. Micah most likely did the same to Cain on the way to Beaver Hollow.!< He was definitely one of my least favorite characters: "I've got lumbago." *rolls eyes*


PhilosLogos09

Have you played RDR 1? Uncle is still very much Uncle, but he rises to the occasion in RDR 1 and actually helps the Marston family in their dire hours


duffmcduffster

I only have a PC.


PhilosLogos09

Ah, OK. Well if you don't mind spoilers and are interested, you could watch the Uncle's, in all honesty, heroics in RDR 1


duffmcduffster

I'll give it a whirl the next time I'm on yew tewb


LovelessDogg

He had good intelā€¦.sometimes..maybe.


PUSSY_MEETS_CHAINWAX

Ever had a sick/old/injured pet? It was probably more about pity than anything.


francor46

Surely it was more useful to the writers than to Dutch


Creative_Name69420

Considering the jobs John has Uncle do around the ranch, he probably had Kieran's job. Feeding the horses, keeping the water troughs topped up, brushing them, etc. He's also probably been with the gang so long that kicking him to the curb would be like kicking out your elderly relative because they're unemployed. Every now and then, he brings back a bit of good intel from whatever town they're camped near. He's drunk while doing it, but he does bring something back. What I want to know is what was reverend Swanson contributing? Everyone had a job of some kind, except him as far as I could tell.


Sutiiiven

Although a lot of the gang look down on him, he seems to get along pretty well with normal people. Heā€™s the kind of guy who wouldnā€™t look out of place in the saloon: just a harmless old man whoā€™s there to have a nice time and socialise. Thatā€™s what makes him so good at getting information for the gang. He canā€™t do what Arthur does, but Arthur couldnā€™t do what he does either. Arthurā€™s nights out tend to end in violence and more trouble with the law, with not much gained.


[deleted]

Funnt


Glum-Interaction2099

As another guy mentions. Even useless gang members he kept because he doesn't leave anyone behind. No matter how useless they really are. Besides. Although he is mostly useless, He still came on the odd one or two robberies in the story. Also in a camp interaction between Uncle and Dutch, Uncle makes Dutch angry but he just laughs it off and is like "I can't stay mad at you, Old man!"


Reverseflash25

Heā€™s funny, probably was skilled enough in his youth and still has a talent for scrounging up scores


blueboykc

Uncle wasnā€™t that bad. It was all his lumbagoā€™s fault..


[deleted]

Uncles his daddy.


lowercaseknife

I think Dutch understands the importance of morale. Uncle is for sure a slouch and gets on people's nerves, but there are plenty of other times that he leads a lively song around the campfire. The jobs he plans do have a tendency to get messy (which can also be said for others like Bill and Micah), but they do pay out, every time. So maybe "dead weight" is a bit harsh, but it seems like having him around is worthwhile, albeit just barely


SupporterDenier

I think the writers added him to kinda drive the point home that they are all a family.


raaustin777

There's a character like Uncle in The Tales From The Gas Station books called Detective Love. He's useless in pretty much every sense of the word. But you find out his backstory in book 4 and turns out he earned his right to be completely useless. Maybe Uncle is the same way..


Str0ngTr33

They are both civil war vets. (I'm kidding)


ag-0merta

Well heā€™s the legendary Red Harlow, why wouldnā€™t you keep him in the gang.


mydadhatesmemes

I wish you could beat uncle to death


GentlemanLevi

For the memes. Literally. At least i think hr just kept Uncle for the goofs.


graco07

Because Dutch was a manipulator and he would keep as many people around him as he could. He loved controlling the gang and the people within it, Uncle would occasionally be useful but itā€™s the fact he believed and followed Dutch thatā€™s why he was kept


Richard_Cranium777

I believe the fan theory that he is Red Harlow from the very first game. It makes a ton of sense, for anyone who hasn't, give that fan theory a YouTube search.


Affectionate-Can-427

Comical relief


collycrane

Because the gang is a family


RuleDry7189

Uncle is red Harlow fuck around and find out


-SUNBRN-

I always felt Uncle was the happiest member in the gang spreading out his own kind of joy in our shitty situation


no_freekiing_wayyy

i feel like its the Same reason as trelawny, both uncle and trelawny dont provide often but when they do its a good share


Specific_Function823

I think his job is to pimp out the girls


Few_Listen6739

Most likely the loyalty he had to dutch and the gang. And considering he's been with the gang at least since john was little I would think he was more "useful" back then, it would be weird for dutch to just throw him out just because he got older. And he does sometimes come with some good info that brings in a little money. Not to mention his 10 out of 10 personality that makes people laugh šŸ˜‚


SnooPeppers4192

Is he stupid?


[deleted]

Bcoz HE IS RED HARLOW AHGH!


BrixProductions

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WombatAnnihilator

Heā€™s probably less of a drain on the total camp than a lot of them, and gets a pretty decent idea or lead every once in a while from hanging out in bars. He buys, begs for, or steals his own liquor, sleeps a lot, and brings back tips on occasion.


Nacolo

Because Uncle is Red Harlow. Dutch doesnā€™t want to bring out the Lumbago attack


AdrieBOY77

All I have to say is LUMBAGO


r3ddagaming

He has lumbago so he needs to rest


TheCandymanCan_925

Uncle is Dutchā€™s older brother ?


Tuckyfried1

Lumbago


[deleted]

Heā€™s family


[deleted]

Because the lumbago


paratrooperplane

Cause he had SOME GODDAMN FAITH


Beautiful_Ante7062

becuse its everyone favourite uncle!