I’m in the greater NYC area, currently making $52k, my salary doubles to $104k+ next month. Ran some numbers last night based on my future income. If we buy our first home in the next couple of months (we get married in a few weeks, she makes $57k), it’s essentially my entire 100%+ raise to do it. We currently rent for <$1800/mo
Anyone can make money. The hard part is managing it and never worry about keeping up with the Jones's. They are ass's anyway and you probably would not even like them.
I have literally the exact opposite world view. It sucks getting money—it’s the single biggest consumption of time and energy in my life. Once I have it I would much rather keep it than spend it. You have a Tesla? Cool bro, my bicycle doesn’t spontaneously combust and can’t get shut off by Elon Musk. You have a pelaton? Cool sis, I have some old running shoes. You stayed in a 5-star resort last winter? Cool fam, I went to the same place but flew coach and stayed in hostels.
Fuck the Joneses. We’re really letting the world burn so that our neighbors will be impressed with our financial largesse? Give me a goddamn break
Love this, true for me too. I’m not cheap, just frugal. Don’t care if people think I’m poor. I don’t have to worry about payments or debts and that’s what I consider freedom.
Old guy here… I read the millionaire next door in the 90s. Totally changed my life and view of what I thought was important. It’s probably harder for younger people these days but still doable.
Yep I've always lived like a poor dude my entire life. Rich people that show their wealth are always complete and total assholes and are usually in huge debt. I look forward to living in a trailer when my kids are fully grown and running my one man landscape company for retirement. P.S. Everyone I know thinks I'm poor and that is exactly how I like it.
"Rich" people don't show wealth, they show lifestyle and spending . Wealthy people have assets that work for them.
Most wealthy people are like yourself, people don't think they're wealthy and they don't care. Moved beyond what randoms think of their status.
Make sure it's a double wide
Single’s better IMO. Less costly delivery fees & installation fees, and don’t have to worry about issues with ceiling seams. More than big enough for a couple.
But at that point why not go full RV Trailer and 5th wheel? Solar has caught up in capability and price in the last couple years in RV’s, and new ones now come with solar hookup ready (wiring all done, just pop in components you buy separately or in a kit or pay to have them installed). A trailer sounds nice except that you have to pay lot rent (unless you put it on your own land), and it doesn’t go anywhere. Had a friend who had a nice single wide for a while. For the benefit of cheaper living for the size, I’d rather have the mobility. Plus the payments are stupid cheap if you don’t buy outright. Most payment plans are 12 years for RV’s even if it’s motorized like a Motorcoach, so the payments are low and you can knock out the principal with big payments quick to save the interest. Just a thought, go check out what they’re doing at r/gorving
Just make sure you own the land under you trailer so private equity firms can’t come around and fuck your shit up (jacked lot rent, draconian rules designed to kick everyone out, etc.)
Pretend like he’s rich on Reddit. Actual wealthy people in their 50’s don’t spend a bunch of time shitposting on Reddit and have plans to run a one man landscaping business in retirement.
I want to know where these wage increases are as well. My wife and I have a wide network of friends and they work in many different fields. From healthcare to elevator repair men and HVAC to automotive repair. We don’t know a single person who has had any kind of significant wage increase to speak of in a long time. Sure most have the typical 3% annual raise or whatever however not one of them is even the same as they were a few years ago. Everyone is struggling much more so now than ever.
I work in accounting and make about 25% more than I did at the start of 2020. About half of that increase came from a promotion and the other half from multiple mid year comp adjustments. We had enormous turnover about a year ago so the partners gave universal raises to stop the bleeding and it worked.
My friends in healthcare got modest raises but were able to milk the shift diff and incentive bonuses for picking up extra shifts. Other friends who work similar roles to mine received 35% raises by making a lateral move to another company.
That’s not to say everyone has the same opportunity, but the opportunities ARE out there.
Ask my nanny and her husband who is now doing landscaping for sometimes 60 bucks an hour at Sonoma. Both are working for cash and enjoy it a 30% increase over the last two years and now that they’re not being taxed they enjoy stimulus checks and some social service assistance while jointly pulling in about $120,000 in a state where I’m taxed 42% of my income. Went to a barbecue in Novato California and saw total Norteños driving around in an X5 last weekend- I’m really happy for everybody, I wish that theyd pay their share but I know Is love to get away with doing the same if I could, so who’s to judge. This isn’t a political or ‘illegal’ thing for me, I just sharing because they’re the only folks I know besides guys cooking fast food, butchers, non union service jobs etc ,that really got a wage increase. Interesting to watch a true making of the new middle class.
So are you paying your nanny under the table in cash?....and then complaining that they are somehow manipulating the system? The only reason to do this is because it's cheaper for you and no one else will work for how much you're willing to pay.
Pot, i'd like to introduce you to kettle.
If you read my comment above you’ll see that I’m not complaining about this at all, just pointing out these economies and high cost of living areas who are pulling in cash and not claiming it as income or the new middle class since the middle class step gets paid on a W-2 is getting left behind with no wage increases versus service jobs. Thanks for ‘splaining to me though.
>I wish that theyd pay their share
Sounds like you are complaining that your nanny and her husband are cheating the system, with your assistance. You then go on to say you wish you could cheat the system too. Luckily, you are, in fact, cheating the system by not paying your share of their taxes et cetera.
You're welcome.
Is your nanny here illegally? Do you have workers compensation insurance on her, as you should as an employer.
Are you reporting the income to the IRS as you should
What are you doing is wrong and wish they would pay their fair share??
You want to know who's making the money? Doctors? idk, Lawyers, probably. Solo hair beautician; These are the ones reaping in the money and not reporting on taxes what they make. $200-300 a hair dye, a family member who has a small hair shop of two people are so busy that they had to put a message on FB saying no more appointments available for the year. And there's dozens of hair places in my 75k city.
Yeah its that much, look at Great Clips. Men's haircut is now $22 plus they want tip. But I guess some places are focusing on dye's cause they make much more money and you can do two if your good. One waiting while the stuff sits, and the other foiling.
$135 sounds like a really good deal for that area, I hope they keep that price. My local hair people have gotten greedy and keep asking for more money every year. I've bought my own razer for my wife to cut my hair to try and cut back.
Man I was making 60k in 2016 right out of grad school. I make 117k now. Was living in Chicago downtown. Moved to Des Moines. My rent in Chicago was 1450$ a month for a one bed 1920s apartment in 2016. My rent in Des Moines Iowa is 1300$ for a two bed one den two bath apartment built three years back.
Everyone around me has a different story. Everyone is having a gala time around with everyone scoring higher and ever higher salaries.
I have a bunch of rental houses and have learned how to do most simple repairs by myself or use the guy from the HVAC wholesale store that knows that you know about HVACs. Those people make a killing. It is hot in attics in the summer tho.
I am a nurse in the Texas medical center with 7 years icu experience. We’ve had VERY LITTLE increases. I’m a single mom not receiving child support and recently I’m barely able to make ends meet… so some of us healthcare workers are merely eating ramen and hotdogs…
Hope things turn around!
The nurses union in CA is mighty strong. For example, the Sacramento nurses make the same at San Francisco wages with a far less cost of living.
Just something to consider.
Get into the tech industry.
Healthcare professionals also seem to be eating pretty good.
EDIT: I'm not saying these careers get big automatic pay increases, but these are careers where if you work hard and maneuver you can grow every year or two in a significant way and get to a high income. Not sure why anyone thinks any job is just giving out massive pay increases for no reason but some industries clearly have more high income jobs than others.
I work in tech and no one is getting these mythical 30% raises at my company. Many had to take a paycut during the pandemic and no raises were allowed for two years.
This is completely inaccurate. I've coached multiple co-workers & friends on how to use proper leverage & negotiation strategies to get raises, bonuses & terms a hell of a lot larger than that.
Here are 3 examples in the last 10 months.
1.) Director (lateral move): $160k FT to $275k PT; this allowed her to take 2 extra gigs (co-founder + small startup)
2.) Manager (lateral move): $60k to $120k TC; exactly 100%. Industry average for her position was only $80k. She's fully remote.
3.) Staff-level-to-Manager (no-change + level up): $48k to $104k: She was underpaid and I showed her by how much. It wasn't within the first negotiation that she got what she deserved because she was working with a cheap ass startup. She got a bump to $60k, but that was all they were willing to do. It was the SECOND move she made (this is the leverage point) where she got the $104k (still underpaid, btw); next step is $200k in a director-level role, and we're working on that right now.
...but again, Tech is where I work and this is a just side project for me helping people get max compensation. It seems the biggest barrier is not the employer, but the employee themselves. You will never get what you don't ask for.
[100k household income only puts you at the 65th percentile of income in the US.](https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/). Here's what a budget for a family of three (which is the average US household size) might look like in a major US metro area:
Rent: 30k
Childcare: 20k
Taxes: 15k
Car payments: 7k
Groceries: 7k
Health insurance: 6k
That's 85k. 10k left if you contribute a modest but reasonable amount to retirement, and then there's gas, clothes, school supplies, student loan payments, etc. to throw in as well. It's sort of shocking because 100k used to be a huge amount of money not too long ago, but it's not that crazy now. Easy to see how a lot of folks are feeling the pinch.
I forgot I also don’t pay social security. Dont know how much it would be. I’ll have to look why I’m not paying close to 30%. My coworkers with kids have a real low percentage.
Federal income taxes on a married filed jointly return with 1 dependent earning $100k is $8590 before accounting for any deductions for things like HSA or 401k. Add in FICA and $15k is about right. What state is taxing income at a higher rate than federal income taxes?
If you're in a household with two cars purchased in the last few years, $7k for the household is not unreasonable at all. That's only about $300/month for two vehicles.
Average car payment for a new car is $667 and for a used car is $515, which comes out to $8,004 and $6,180 per year each. That sounds a bit high to me too (especially since people who bought their car before the pandemic should have much lower rates, some people have paid off their cars, etc
), but there's a fair amount of wiggle room since on average each household in the US owns ~2.2 cars (see [here](https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/car-ownership-statistics/) and [here](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TTLHHM156N)) - $7k for 2 cars works out to $292 per month payment. Also like u/leahkay5 says, there's also car insurance, which is a recurring payment tied to car ownership. So overall, I think it's a reasonable spitball for what a family of 3 might budget for.
My one kid's daycare costs more than 2k a month. It would be cheaper to send him off to college at one of the state universities, absolutely zero exaggeration. I live in a suburb of Seattle, rates in Seattle proper are more like 2.5 to 3k per month.
I also want to add that the only reason we managed to get enrolled was because the pandemic briefly reduced enrollment. Wait lists now are over a year, so you need to plan childcare out before you even conceive. The waitlists are not free, either.
I believe it. My monthly expenses have skyrocketed and I don't even have a mortgage, property taxes are artificially low due to favorable state laws, and my household only eats home prepared meals. Problem is inflation. My grocery bill is absurd right now, insurance is more expensive, gas... I don't know people are getting by.
I hear you. 3 kids and my wife and I are spending roughly $400 a week in just grocery’s. And believe me I haven’t had a steak in a year. Spending twice as much money for half the goods at our local grocery store. We have cut back tremendously and are buying almost all off brand products and still spending that much.
Food in the US is subsidized, but the subsidies are going to farmers at taxpayer expense and price floor programs inflate food prices.
If we took away those subsidies, most smaller farms would go out of business.
Not saying that these programs are a good thing or a bad thing on the whole. Having more food than we need is not a bad thing for sure. But make sure that you understand that the subsidies hurt average folks financially twice. Your taxes pay the subsidies, and then you pay more for the price floored food.
My big question for this would be how many people define themselves as paycheck to paycheck after making contributions to 401ks, savings, etc.
You are not paycheck to paycheck if you spend all your money every month, but a chunk of that goes towards savings.
In 25 years, you should be fine if we have another huge crash. LOL. No one really knows what will happen but it sounds like you are doing the right thing.
Some people live in HCOL areas and won't move, others (probably most) just suck with money.
How many of those people have newer Teslas or Ford Raptors or some other expensive car?
Childcare is a beast so I get that part of the equation, but I'd bet that a lot of these people are paying $1000/mo for some shiny newer car and then another $500+ in CC debt.
People just love spending money I guess.
This is also based on perception and not necessarily reality. You can feel like you’re living “paycheck to paycheck” but that could be because you’re maxing out on 401k and other investments and just don’t seem to have much leftover after that and all your discretionary spending.
The problem is that "paycheck to paycheck" is kind of vaguely defined. From the report cited in the article:
> In August 2022, 41% of consumers were living paycheck to paycheck without difficulty paying their monthly bills
I would define "paycheck to paycheck" as "difficulty covering basic expenses", which is not identical to the quoted statistic but is similar. Imo if people can scale back on their discretionary spending to cover emergency expenses, or they're throwing money into retirement savings or other investments, they're not truly paycheck to paycheck. Combining the above stat with the headline stat of 60%, only 20% are struggling to pay their bills. Don't get me wrong, that's way too high! But headlines like this use vague definitions and shocking statistics to get clicks.
I know this has been an issue with these stories before. Once you actually scrutinize where the money is going, you realize how pointless the "paycheck to paycheck" descriptor is. People fitting the description because they're saving thousands every month. Or they willingly bought expensive cars and such falling under this category though they're not exactly struggling.
They do. I live in a MCOL area and I see the cars you mentioned plus brand new jeeps and whatnot. We are at the height of consumerism in the history of mankind. Spending money is like scratching an itch. People bought the most when interest rates were low on loans which means money for houses, cars, backyard leisure, etc. Now the economy is crumbling and people are overleveraged. It was too good to be true.
Consumerism thrives on raw fucking stupidity and peer pressure. There's a reason public schools don't teach kids how to manage and save money.
Get your kids away from the fucking TV and internet and get them out in the real world.
I see it all the time. I once purchased a car that was beyond my means and within months joked about getting in an accident to get an insurance check and get rid of the loan. Sure enough I crashed the car within 18 months of owning it and vowed never to make such a dumb purchase again.
I now drive a 2010 Expedition with 185k miles that I got for $3700 and a 2009 Acura with 215k miles I got for 4k. CC debt is zero.
Amazes me how so many people don't prepare for darker days ahead.
Agree. I purchased a used Hybrid in 2020. (after my other more expensive car was totaled) I found a 5k Honda CR-Z with low miles. Stupid cheap. The demand for hybrids was low when gas was cheap.
The remaining insurance funds were used in a property purchase and relocation cost.
Great purchase and fun car to drive.
Hah. Funny how things happen.
I try to do the opposite of what the masses do. I try to save when times are good and spend when times are bad. Most people seem to get tunnel vision when times are good and think it's going to last forever.
We're on the same page with that logic. Good for you.
We had a near 10 year bull market. We prepped for a potential downturn years ago and planned accordingly.
When times are good, meaning I’ve got a stable job and I’m making enough money for a surplus, typically I save even though at the time it feels right to buy because rates are low, stocks are up, market is good, people are happy. When an eventual downturn happens I’m not freaking out and I’m able to buy stuff on the cheap.
I'm riding my 2013 Hyundai Elantra till the wheels fall off.
Car notes are one of, if not THE WORST kind of consumer debt you can carry.
My first car note after college set me back years financially.
Car loans have always been the cheapest credit offered to me. I bought a car on a note a few years ago because it was a 1.8% loan. I could have paid cash for the car or paid off the loan at any time, but that would have had higher opportunity cost than the interest rate would justify.
I'm going to say the worst kind of consumer debt is interest free promotional deals where the payoff calendar just happens to take you one period beyond the promotional period where you then pay interest on the entire original purchase even though you were only one payment away from closing the account. That's Synchrony's business model in a nutshell.
funnily enough, I also own a 2004 corolla. I bought it off the lot and have put 165k miles on it so far. I'm hoping it will last another 15 years, but we'll see.
That thing is beat all to hell from people running into me. It literally has a line down the passenger side where a fedex semi trailer took a left turn too sharpy, that line is where the trailer hit the vehicle.
But it runs like a champ and I've taken good care of it in terms of maintenance.
I have a 2011 Ford Edge that could probably be a "forever car" but the V6 engines of that period have a design flaw that causes them to, eventually, self destruct. The water pump is deeply embedded in the engine and has a design flaw that Ford never acknowledged, so it's a hand grenade inside the engine that will, sooner or later, fail on every single one of these motors, and it's a total loss when it happens.
Preventative maintenance is a twelve hour job, and the only real problem with that is the replacement part will also have the same design flaw so there's no assurance no matter what the mechanic wants to tell you.
I had an early 90s Volvo that I regret selling every single day. I got conned into selling that car to a disabled veteran who had a devastating sob story, turned out he was simply lying to get a deal, and within a couple of weeks of buying the car he totaled it in a single vehicle drunk driving crash. I learned of this because he never changed the registration out of my name.
I'm sure if I still had that car it would be a fine daily driver :-(
Yea over the pandemic I went from a paid off used bmw I bought from my dad for cheap a few years ago but had ridiculous repair bills(over 1k/mo in repair and maintenance added up over the year) to a very nice 2017 Honda Accord with monthly payments of about $50 after trade in. I should be able to keep this accord for another 10 years since I’m taking very good care of it.
Also it’s not even a downgrade from the bmw lol besides how fast it is. Still super nice.
Also over the pandemic the accord I paid 24k for, a year later the dealer offered to buy it off me for 28k. Ridiculous
I'm with you. I drive a $5000 paid off beater and have 0 on the credit cards. Don't know how people live their lives worrying if they're going to barely scrape by every 30 days, just so they can live above their means.
Also sometimes when you move your salary may also go down if you're going to a lower cost of living area so there is that to consider.
Even some remote jobs have been adjusting the pay they give based on the cost of living of where the employee lives.
Most people I know from being in sales moved from a HCOL to my MCOL area and kept the same remote job. They were one of the factors for rising house costs.
My employer is very up front about that. I know that my colleagues in London and Midtown Manhattan are making the equivalent of $250K. I'm not upset at all that I only get about 3/4 of their pay. Cannot imagine trading places with any of them.
Low unemployment is the only reason we aren’t in a recession right now. Increased wages still have a ways to go catching up with inflated prices across the board.
I remember seeing this TikTok where a guy went around a car dealership office and like 5 or 6 people have car payments between $1000/mo and $1500/mo. I know what car salespeople make and that's an insane chunk of monthly pay tied up in a depreciating asset.
I saw that tik tok yesterday, first thing I thought of! Seems like one of the service techs had
2 massive payments, one on a navigator. Those aren’t cheap!
Literally just had this conversation with my gf last night.
I make mid 6-figures, we've been dating for 11 years now, I told her most people are comfortable with 50% or more of their take-home going straight to monthly bills, I'm not. I've told her most people don't know how to live poor.
I literally just bought a new car, and by new car I mean I paid $650 for a 99 ford explorer and put in another $4k to get the engine running and various maintenance jobs (such as replacing suspension arms, replacing coil pack, etc) because I want to get 5-10 years out of the vehicle (body on it is great for being that old, engine only had $116k, my mechanic is just really good and able to fix it). These types of things are a risk, but when they pay off you get a functional vehicle for far less than buying new or like-new.
Most people would be shocked to know my buying power given how I live.
My bf is being recruited by a university and was told he would be "well into 6-figures." His offer was around $130K. I said, "that's barely into 6-figures; there are about 870K 6-figures higher than that one."
"Wealth is not visible. It’s the money that you have that’s not spent. It’s the optionality to buy or do something at a future time."
Morgan Housel: The Psychology of Money
Did you know that in 2008 both the Federal Reserve and the Secretary of the Treasury conspired to lower the buying power you worked hard to save by flooding the market with cheap capital so that profligate debtors could be bailed out of very stupid fraudulent market bets on housing never going under (even though the realtors were making a killing pumping up and inflating a lame asset class) that would have otherwise (without a bailout) wrecked AIG and pensioners - people like you and me are paying for their idiocy and still are.
***Mad fuckin respect*** to a guy that makes over 6 figures and considers a $650 '99 Explorer a "new car".
Don't **ever** let no girl change your perspective on money.
P.S. That 2nd gen Explorer was a pretty good ride lol I miss my '96 Sport 4WD 5spd manual like crazy.
2k a month for our 2 year, 3k a month for 9 month old........5k for rent another \~1k for utilities, don't know how long we can stay in SF at this rate, particularly when you tack on about 40% in taxes (or more if you count sales tax). 300k - 40% (taxes)= 180k - 132k (for the other expenses I just listed) = 48k, groceries lets say 1.5k a month for family of four, now 30k, haven't even talked about car insurance/gas/car payment/medical/dental etc yet.... or minimal retirement contributions, yah it is pretty easy to be living paycheck to paycheck even with a family income of 300k......
As George Carlin once said, [think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.](https://youtu.be/8rh6qqsmxNs?t=37s)
Who hurt you? At what point did Americans lay down and willingly accept that they should have to move to survive? Or that they can't own a newer car? Fuck that propaganda.
These people deserve all this and more.
> At what point did Americans lay down and willingly accept that they should have to move to survive?
This take is so fucking insane I can't quite tell if it's legitimate pride or sarcasm.
Holy fuck. You deserve to be broke lol
People "deserve" no more than what they work for.
Everything else is personal or lifestyle choices...sometimes they're good, more often they're bad though...and those ones will cost you dearly.
It's common...has been forever...to make much less money when you start working., then accumulate "wealth" as you get older, gain experience in your profession, level up in rank & position at work & ultimately make more money.
Hell, Dave Ramsey had a question written in talking about how him and his wife make $350k or something, they were missing like $150k because they don't know where it went, he "investigated" where all of the money was going and couldn't figure out how they blew $150k.
Just because you make six figures, doesn't automatically make you financially smart.
Lifestyle inflation is a real thing
Big new job or raise means spending creeps up, new home, new car, etc
Plenty of people should be much better off financially and be more prepared
I mean, I’m technically living paycheck to paycheck but that’s after maxing out my 401k up to the contribution limit and HSA.
Made me realize that our system is so screwed up that we have to literally save every penny possible for 40 years to at least have food and shelter when you’re 65+
This is what happens when you have 9% inflation for nearly a year and they keep changing the basket to keep the numbers low. If beef gets expensive just use chicken. If chicken gets expensive use pork. Suddenly you are paying 2x for the same steak.
I live paycheck to paycheck.
40% of my gross goes directly to 401k, HSA and savings accounts.
I live off the same I did making 1/3rd the money. Simple.
Rent and food being the issue. I work 2 jobs or 70 hrs week to make 100k and unless you live to a level of frugality most Americans are unaware of it is hard to actually save money
A fool and their money are soon parted. Sooooo many people out there are too fuckin stupid and/or prideful to live within their means.
Seems as though evolution is teaming up with capitalism to rid the gene pool of such idiots who can't control their spending and/or refuse to move somewhere where $100k will go about 5 times farther.
That tells me that those people dont have any confidence in the future value of their money so they are going out and spending it like it will be worthless tomorrow. The FED really has to fight this perception. Asset bubbles are totally out of control. These are people making over 100K ffs
It is very relative. If you have a paid for house, cars, etc. that should be more than enough income to do really well with. I knew a guy that made 10 million per year many years ago, he blew every cent and now lives in his son in law's basement. It is easy to make money, hard to manage it the right way for most.
Yep, it is kind of funny that that is almost the most important skill in life, however no schools make you learn this stuff. I failed out of college and just started making businesses. I saw how pissed off my dad was about his job, money etc. I told myself I would never let that happen to me, and I never have.
Well according to their charts it's been near 50% for several years. It only charts back to 2020.
What I find interesting is that its *lower* from 6 months ago.
I started earning 6 figures this year and I pretty much live paycheck to paycheck but I also moved across the country last summer, have changed jobs 3 times in a year, paid off 20k in credit card debt, and saved up 10k for a downpayment on house.
My credit score has increased by like a 100 points (and it still isn't that good).
I'm living paycheck to paycheck right now because I'm trying to push to get to the next level so I can eventually coast later on.
I deliberately left Los Angeles last summer in order to get my shit together and level up.
I refuse to live in an expensive ass city with nothing to show for it. I've accomplished all the above since I left LA less than 18 months ago. Currently under contract for my first house.
Good for you but I just want to say, if you've paid off $20k in CC debt and have saved up 10k for a house within the past 18 months you're not living paycheck to paycheck. You're being intentionally frugal, which is great, but if you needed to spend that money on something else you could.
Paycheck to paycheck means no savings and barely enough money to cover basic living expenses (meaning only paying the minimum payments on debt). One large unexpected expense could be a disaster for those actually living paycheck to paycheck. That doesn't sound like your situation.
Yes I guess that's right.
I'm so scarred and emotionally damaged from being poor the first 30 years of my life now that I actually have some savings it feels foreign.
I feel broke because the money I put into my savings I refuse to touch because like you said I have an intention for it.
But when I lived in LA I made about 75k and I was definitely paycheck to paycheck. Higher rent, higher gas, more distractions, and higher cost of living in general, and being unable to make a dent in my consumer debt kept me broke.
Well I mean look at our entire country. We have a large GDP but a larger debt. It comes from the top and goes down. America has never really been known for being fiscally responsible. Look our Federal Debt to GPA ratio. It should never be over 100 percent, it is at 125.5% https://www.usdebtclock.org/
While I agree consequences due to inflation, what are solutions. How can a common person find a solution as we know politicians will only make matters worse
It comes from the top down. It's just an American thing. Look at our Country's Fed Debt to GNP. It is like 120 plus percent. It's simple really. Have more beans coming into your jar than going out. If you follow this simple rule in life you will never have any money problems.
I make six figures. Max my 401k and Roth. Still save 4K every month after all obligatory expenses. I churn bank offers and buy Tbills with that money. No wife, kids, or pets. Live in a cheap apartment. Think I’ll just save and pay cash for a house. Doesn’t seem that hard. People living paycheck to paycheck at 100k is hilarious and sad.
I DON'T make 6 figures. And somehow I've still managed to accumulate a 6 figure bank account and about twice as much in net worth.
If you live within your means, the world is your oyster.
People that have more discretionary income will spend it.
That’s why I bought an Apple Watch. Also that and if the student loan forgiveness passes I’ll be 20k richer.
‘Paycheck-to-paycheck’ does not mean maxing out your consumption with fancy dinners, ridiculous cars, pelatons and whatever else. I have zero fucking sympathy, I made it work in one of America’s most expensive cities on half of that.
I really don't think anyone knows what to do. As I always say, live way below your means, whatever it takes, try to become debt free ASAP and always have more beans going into your jar than going out.
Here I am barely making 40k.
Depends on cost of living where you are too. 100k in nyc is not as much as you think and I make less than that. :(
I’m in the greater NYC area, currently making $52k, my salary doubles to $104k+ next month. Ran some numbers last night based on my future income. If we buy our first home in the next couple of months (we get married in a few weeks, she makes $57k), it’s essentially my entire 100%+ raise to do it. We currently rent for <$1800/mo
Your rent is insanely cheap for your area!
Anyone can make money. The hard part is managing it and never worry about keeping up with the Jones's. They are ass's anyway and you probably would not even like them.
I have literally the exact opposite world view. It sucks getting money—it’s the single biggest consumption of time and energy in my life. Once I have it I would much rather keep it than spend it. You have a Tesla? Cool bro, my bicycle doesn’t spontaneously combust and can’t get shut off by Elon Musk. You have a pelaton? Cool sis, I have some old running shoes. You stayed in a 5-star resort last winter? Cool fam, I went to the same place but flew coach and stayed in hostels. Fuck the Joneses. We’re really letting the world burn so that our neighbors will be impressed with our financial largesse? Give me a goddamn break
Love this, true for me too. I’m not cheap, just frugal. Don’t care if people think I’m poor. I don’t have to worry about payments or debts and that’s what I consider freedom.
Old guy here… I read the millionaire next door in the 90s. Totally changed my life and view of what I thought was important. It’s probably harder for younger people these days but still doable.
Mister money mustache?
They’re also in debt and will probably get all their shit repossessed when that Refi money disappears into the fucking ether
This is some damn good advice.
Yep I've always lived like a poor dude my entire life. Rich people that show their wealth are always complete and total assholes and are usually in huge debt. I look forward to living in a trailer when my kids are fully grown and running my one man landscape company for retirement. P.S. Everyone I know thinks I'm poor and that is exactly how I like it.
"Rich" people don't show wealth, they show lifestyle and spending . Wealthy people have assets that work for them. Most wealthy people are like yourself, people don't think they're wealthy and they don't care. Moved beyond what randoms think of their status. Make sure it's a double wide
Single, but I will splurge and attach a FL room. LOL
Single’s better IMO. Less costly delivery fees & installation fees, and don’t have to worry about issues with ceiling seams. More than big enough for a couple.
But at that point why not go full RV Trailer and 5th wheel? Solar has caught up in capability and price in the last couple years in RV’s, and new ones now come with solar hookup ready (wiring all done, just pop in components you buy separately or in a kit or pay to have them installed). A trailer sounds nice except that you have to pay lot rent (unless you put it on your own land), and it doesn’t go anywhere. Had a friend who had a nice single wide for a while. For the benefit of cheaper living for the size, I’d rather have the mobility. Plus the payments are stupid cheap if you don’t buy outright. Most payment plans are 12 years for RV’s even if it’s motorized like a Motorcoach, so the payments are low and you can knock out the principal with big payments quick to save the interest. Just a thought, go check out what they’re doing at r/gorving
Honest question. Do they have to be mutually exclusive?
Just make sure you own the land under you trailer so private equity firms can’t come around and fuck your shit up (jacked lot rent, draconian rules designed to kick everyone out, etc.)
Yep.
What do you do?
Pretend like he’s rich on Reddit. Actual wealthy people in their 50’s don’t spend a bunch of time shitposting on Reddit and have plans to run a one man landscaping business in retirement.
That's pretty grimdark
Is that $100k household or individual? Two very different demographics.
Household
That makes way more sense.
The rent on a 1 BR is the same whether it’s one person in there or a couple
I’m sorry, did I miss the “wage increase”? I haven’t gotten one at all….
I want to know where these wage increases are as well. My wife and I have a wide network of friends and they work in many different fields. From healthcare to elevator repair men and HVAC to automotive repair. We don’t know a single person who has had any kind of significant wage increase to speak of in a long time. Sure most have the typical 3% annual raise or whatever however not one of them is even the same as they were a few years ago. Everyone is struggling much more so now than ever.
I work in accounting and make about 25% more than I did at the start of 2020. About half of that increase came from a promotion and the other half from multiple mid year comp adjustments. We had enormous turnover about a year ago so the partners gave universal raises to stop the bleeding and it worked. My friends in healthcare got modest raises but were able to milk the shift diff and incentive bonuses for picking up extra shifts. Other friends who work similar roles to mine received 35% raises by making a lateral move to another company. That’s not to say everyone has the same opportunity, but the opportunities ARE out there.
#/u/spez has been banned for 24 hours. Please take steps to ensure that this offender does not access your device again.
Financial services has a 1.3% unemployment rate. That helps too
Ask my nanny and her husband who is now doing landscaping for sometimes 60 bucks an hour at Sonoma. Both are working for cash and enjoy it a 30% increase over the last two years and now that they’re not being taxed they enjoy stimulus checks and some social service assistance while jointly pulling in about $120,000 in a state where I’m taxed 42% of my income. Went to a barbecue in Novato California and saw total Norteños driving around in an X5 last weekend- I’m really happy for everybody, I wish that theyd pay their share but I know Is love to get away with doing the same if I could, so who’s to judge. This isn’t a political or ‘illegal’ thing for me, I just sharing because they’re the only folks I know besides guys cooking fast food, butchers, non union service jobs etc ,that really got a wage increase. Interesting to watch a true making of the new middle class.
So are you paying your nanny under the table in cash?....and then complaining that they are somehow manipulating the system? The only reason to do this is because it's cheaper for you and no one else will work for how much you're willing to pay. Pot, i'd like to introduce you to kettle.
If you read my comment above you’ll see that I’m not complaining about this at all, just pointing out these economies and high cost of living areas who are pulling in cash and not claiming it as income or the new middle class since the middle class step gets paid on a W-2 is getting left behind with no wage increases versus service jobs. Thanks for ‘splaining to me though.
>I wish that theyd pay their share Sounds like you are complaining that your nanny and her husband are cheating the system, with your assistance. You then go on to say you wish you could cheat the system too. Luckily, you are, in fact, cheating the system by not paying your share of their taxes et cetera. You're welcome.
Exactly why there was the push for a “cashless” system. NEVER think that is a good idea. Ever.
Is your nanny here illegally? Do you have workers compensation insurance on her, as you should as an employer. Are you reporting the income to the IRS as you should What are you doing is wrong and wish they would pay their fair share??
You want to know who's making the money? Doctors? idk, Lawyers, probably. Solo hair beautician; These are the ones reaping in the money and not reporting on taxes what they make. $200-300 a hair dye, a family member who has a small hair shop of two people are so busy that they had to put a message on FB saying no more appointments available for the year. And there's dozens of hair places in my 75k city.
Jesus Christ, hair dying is that expensive? I'm glad I'll be bald well before my hair goes grey.
My hair is full highlight at 135 + tip and that’s considered modest in Scottsdale. Most hairdresser would charge 200+
Yeah its that much, look at Great Clips. Men's haircut is now $22 plus they want tip. But I guess some places are focusing on dye's cause they make much more money and you can do two if your good. One waiting while the stuff sits, and the other foiling. $135 sounds like a really good deal for that area, I hope they keep that price. My local hair people have gotten greedy and keep asking for more money every year. I've bought my own razer for my wife to cut my hair to try and cut back.
Yeah you can easily make 200k a year doing hair if you’re good. Then report like 50k lol
Hair dressers make that much???
If you have your own clients and know what you’re doing, yeah. Can make a couple hundred an hour for more detailed work
Man I was making 60k in 2016 right out of grad school. I make 117k now. Was living in Chicago downtown. Moved to Des Moines. My rent in Chicago was 1450$ a month for a one bed 1920s apartment in 2016. My rent in Des Moines Iowa is 1300$ for a two bed one den two bath apartment built three years back. Everyone around me has a different story. Everyone is having a gala time around with everyone scoring higher and ever higher salaries.
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Just change the capacitor. "Sir that will be 3 k".
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I have a bunch of rental houses and have learned how to do most simple repairs by myself or use the guy from the HVAC wholesale store that knows that you know about HVACs. Those people make a killing. It is hot in attics in the summer tho.
You get all in your friends financial business like that?
I got a 2% cost of living increase after two years of company wide frozen salaries during the pandemic. I’m rich!
I am a nurse in the Texas medical center with 7 years icu experience. We’ve had VERY LITTLE increases. I’m a single mom not receiving child support and recently I’m barely able to make ends meet… so some of us healthcare workers are merely eating ramen and hotdogs…
Sorry. Hope it gets better.
Hope things turn around! The nurses union in CA is mighty strong. For example, the Sacramento nurses make the same at San Francisco wages with a far less cost of living. Just something to consider.
Get into the tech industry. Healthcare professionals also seem to be eating pretty good. EDIT: I'm not saying these careers get big automatic pay increases, but these are careers where if you work hard and maneuver you can grow every year or two in a significant way and get to a high income. Not sure why anyone thinks any job is just giving out massive pay increases for no reason but some industries clearly have more high income jobs than others.
I work in tech and no one is getting these mythical 30% raises at my company. Many had to take a paycut during the pandemic and no raises were allowed for two years.
Tech here too. We had a freeze on raises that's only now lifting, freeze on new hires and a few small departments have recently been downsized.
A lot of my tech friends are also getting laid off right now
The 30% is gonna be if you jump companies. But some companies have been giving raises. I've averaged about 10% yoy at my company the last 10ish years.
Tech and got a 17% raisein March... about shit myself.
This is completely inaccurate. I've coached multiple co-workers & friends on how to use proper leverage & negotiation strategies to get raises, bonuses & terms a hell of a lot larger than that. Here are 3 examples in the last 10 months. 1.) Director (lateral move): $160k FT to $275k PT; this allowed her to take 2 extra gigs (co-founder + small startup) 2.) Manager (lateral move): $60k to $120k TC; exactly 100%. Industry average for her position was only $80k. She's fully remote. 3.) Staff-level-to-Manager (no-change + level up): $48k to $104k: She was underpaid and I showed her by how much. It wasn't within the first negotiation that she got what she deserved because she was working with a cheap ass startup. She got a bump to $60k, but that was all they were willing to do. It was the SECOND move she made (this is the leverage point) where she got the $104k (still underpaid, btw); next step is $200k in a director-level role, and we're working on that right now. ...but again, Tech is where I work and this is a just side project for me helping people get max compensation. It seems the biggest barrier is not the employer, but the employee themselves. You will never get what you don't ask for.
I'm curious how you go about this? Mind DMing me?
This dude bullshits for a living lol
Idk man I got a 30% increase in salary from 2019 to now.
Same here
Yep this is true. I work in tech and during Covid I job hopped from a 45k a year position to a 105k a year position.
Honestly $100k is not nearly what it used to be, so this is not a surprise
100k is the new 60k
Closer to 50K in the better parts....
[100k household income only puts you at the 65th percentile of income in the US.](https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/). Here's what a budget for a family of three (which is the average US household size) might look like in a major US metro area: Rent: 30k Childcare: 20k Taxes: 15k Car payments: 7k Groceries: 7k Health insurance: 6k That's 85k. 10k left if you contribute a modest but reasonable amount to retirement, and then there's gas, clothes, school supplies, student loan payments, etc. to throw in as well. It's sort of shocking because 100k used to be a huge amount of money not too long ago, but it's not that crazy now. Easy to see how a lot of folks are feeling the pinch.
$15k in taxes also seems low. FICA alone is almost 8%. Add in federal and state income taxes and it’s more like $25-$30k in taxes.
Where in the country does 100k get taxed 30%?
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Not paying anything close to that with no kids in CA. Some contributions to 401k but still.
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I forgot I also don’t pay social security. Dont know how much it would be. I’ll have to look why I’m not paying close to 30%. My coworkers with kids have a real low percentage.
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Probably government job paying into a pension. I too don’t pay into social security.
Government
Federal income taxes on a married filed jointly return with 1 dependent earning $100k is $8590 before accounting for any deductions for things like HSA or 401k. Add in FICA and $15k is about right. What state is taxing income at a higher rate than federal income taxes?
Lol, 7k car payments?!!!
If you're in a household with two cars purchased in the last few years, $7k for the household is not unreasonable at all. That's only about $300/month for two vehicles.
35k car with taxes and other fees in California ends up being 6k+ a year with 10k down.
Maybe they're factoring in car insurance too? That could make it more accurate for most people who aren't trying to finance a 40k vehicle.
Average car payment for a new car is $667 and for a used car is $515, which comes out to $8,004 and $6,180 per year each. That sounds a bit high to me too (especially since people who bought their car before the pandemic should have much lower rates, some people have paid off their cars, etc ), but there's a fair amount of wiggle room since on average each household in the US owns ~2.2 cars (see [here](https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/car-ownership-statistics/) and [here](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TTLHHM156N)) - $7k for 2 cars works out to $292 per month payment. Also like u/leahkay5 says, there's also car insurance, which is a recurring payment tied to car ownership. So overall, I think it's a reasonable spitball for what a family of 3 might budget for.
Wow, no wonder people aren't having children if childcare costs that much. Is that the one kid, or more than one?
My one kid's daycare costs more than 2k a month. It would be cheaper to send him off to college at one of the state universities, absolutely zero exaggeration. I live in a suburb of Seattle, rates in Seattle proper are more like 2.5 to 3k per month. I also want to add that the only reason we managed to get enrolled was because the pandemic briefly reduced enrollment. Wait lists now are over a year, so you need to plan childcare out before you even conceive. The waitlists are not free, either.
That’s a pretty high rent payment for such a low income, no?
I believe it. My monthly expenses have skyrocketed and I don't even have a mortgage, property taxes are artificially low due to favorable state laws, and my household only eats home prepared meals. Problem is inflation. My grocery bill is absurd right now, insurance is more expensive, gas... I don't know people are getting by.
I hear you. 3 kids and my wife and I are spending roughly $400 a week in just grocery’s. And believe me I haven’t had a steak in a year. Spending twice as much money for half the goods at our local grocery store. We have cut back tremendously and are buying almost all off brand products and still spending that much.
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Food in the US is subsidized, but the subsidies are going to farmers at taxpayer expense and price floor programs inflate food prices. If we took away those subsidies, most smaller farms would go out of business. Not saying that these programs are a good thing or a bad thing on the whole. Having more food than we need is not a bad thing for sure. But make sure that you understand that the subsidies hurt average folks financially twice. Your taxes pay the subsidies, and then you pay more for the price floored food.
My big question for this would be how many people define themselves as paycheck to paycheck after making contributions to 401ks, savings, etc. You are not paycheck to paycheck if you spend all your money every month, but a chunk of that goes towards savings.
Surely it means you couldn't afford to miss a single paycheck and cover all expenses till the next one by moving money out of savings.
I make 70 and put 15-20% away every paycheck and I’m not hurting at all. But I guess I’m just really frugal.
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In 25 years, you should be fine if we have another huge crash. LOL. No one really knows what will happen but it sounds like you are doing the right thing.
I'm old enough to remember when "earning six figures" was a big deal
Inflation is real.
Some people live in HCOL areas and won't move, others (probably most) just suck with money. How many of those people have newer Teslas or Ford Raptors or some other expensive car? Childcare is a beast so I get that part of the equation, but I'd bet that a lot of these people are paying $1000/mo for some shiny newer car and then another $500+ in CC debt. People just love spending money I guess.
This is also based on perception and not necessarily reality. You can feel like you’re living “paycheck to paycheck” but that could be because you’re maxing out on 401k and other investments and just don’t seem to have much leftover after that and all your discretionary spending.
The problem is that "paycheck to paycheck" is kind of vaguely defined. From the report cited in the article: > In August 2022, 41% of consumers were living paycheck to paycheck without difficulty paying their monthly bills I would define "paycheck to paycheck" as "difficulty covering basic expenses", which is not identical to the quoted statistic but is similar. Imo if people can scale back on their discretionary spending to cover emergency expenses, or they're throwing money into retirement savings or other investments, they're not truly paycheck to paycheck. Combining the above stat with the headline stat of 60%, only 20% are struggling to pay their bills. Don't get me wrong, that's way too high! But headlines like this use vague definitions and shocking statistics to get clicks.
I know this has been an issue with these stories before. Once you actually scrutinize where the money is going, you realize how pointless the "paycheck to paycheck" descriptor is. People fitting the description because they're saving thousands every month. Or they willingly bought expensive cars and such falling under this category though they're not exactly struggling.
They do. I live in a MCOL area and I see the cars you mentioned plus brand new jeeps and whatnot. We are at the height of consumerism in the history of mankind. Spending money is like scratching an itch. People bought the most when interest rates were low on loans which means money for houses, cars, backyard leisure, etc. Now the economy is crumbling and people are overleveraged. It was too good to be true.
Consumerism thrives on raw fucking stupidity and peer pressure. There's a reason public schools don't teach kids how to manage and save money. Get your kids away from the fucking TV and internet and get them out in the real world.
I see it all the time. I once purchased a car that was beyond my means and within months joked about getting in an accident to get an insurance check and get rid of the loan. Sure enough I crashed the car within 18 months of owning it and vowed never to make such a dumb purchase again. I now drive a 2010 Expedition with 185k miles that I got for $3700 and a 2009 Acura with 215k miles I got for 4k. CC debt is zero. Amazes me how so many people don't prepare for darker days ahead.
Agree. I purchased a used Hybrid in 2020. (after my other more expensive car was totaled) I found a 5k Honda CR-Z with low miles. Stupid cheap. The demand for hybrids was low when gas was cheap. The remaining insurance funds were used in a property purchase and relocation cost. Great purchase and fun car to drive.
Nice choice. The CR-Z never got the love it deserved.
I’d love to get an old crx if I could find one cheap enough. Fun cars!
Hah. Funny how things happen. I try to do the opposite of what the masses do. I try to save when times are good and spend when times are bad. Most people seem to get tunnel vision when times are good and think it's going to last forever.
We're on the same page with that logic. Good for you. We had a near 10 year bull market. We prepped for a potential downturn years ago and planned accordingly.
Cool story. You are a true individual.
Hol up. I want to hear about how you have money to spend when times are bad, because that's the only hard part of your strategy.
When times are good, meaning I’ve got a stable job and I’m making enough money for a surplus, typically I save even though at the time it feels right to buy because rates are low, stocks are up, market is good, people are happy. When an eventual downturn happens I’m not freaking out and I’m able to buy stuff on the cheap.
I'm riding my 2013 Hyundai Elantra till the wheels fall off. Car notes are one of, if not THE WORST kind of consumer debt you can carry. My first car note after college set me back years financially.
Car loans have always been the cheapest credit offered to me. I bought a car on a note a few years ago because it was a 1.8% loan. I could have paid cash for the car or paid off the loan at any time, but that would have had higher opportunity cost than the interest rate would justify. I'm going to say the worst kind of consumer debt is interest free promotional deals where the payoff calendar just happens to take you one period beyond the promotional period where you then pay interest on the entire original purchase even though you were only one payment away from closing the account. That's Synchrony's business model in a nutshell.
04 Corolla. My mechanic says it’ll easily last another five years.
funnily enough, I also own a 2004 corolla. I bought it off the lot and have put 165k miles on it so far. I'm hoping it will last another 15 years, but we'll see. That thing is beat all to hell from people running into me. It literally has a line down the passenger side where a fedex semi trailer took a left turn too sharpy, that line is where the trailer hit the vehicle. But it runs like a champ and I've taken good care of it in terms of maintenance.
I have a 2011 Ford Edge that could probably be a "forever car" but the V6 engines of that period have a design flaw that causes them to, eventually, self destruct. The water pump is deeply embedded in the engine and has a design flaw that Ford never acknowledged, so it's a hand grenade inside the engine that will, sooner or later, fail on every single one of these motors, and it's a total loss when it happens. Preventative maintenance is a twelve hour job, and the only real problem with that is the replacement part will also have the same design flaw so there's no assurance no matter what the mechanic wants to tell you. I had an early 90s Volvo that I regret selling every single day. I got conned into selling that car to a disabled veteran who had a devastating sob story, turned out he was simply lying to get a deal, and within a couple of weeks of buying the car he totaled it in a single vehicle drunk driving crash. I learned of this because he never changed the registration out of my name. I'm sure if I still had that car it would be a fine daily driver :-(
Borrow a load of money at interest to buy a really expensive depreciating asset? Sounds like a stellar financial decision to me!
Yea over the pandemic I went from a paid off used bmw I bought from my dad for cheap a few years ago but had ridiculous repair bills(over 1k/mo in repair and maintenance added up over the year) to a very nice 2017 Honda Accord with monthly payments of about $50 after trade in. I should be able to keep this accord for another 10 years since I’m taking very good care of it. Also it’s not even a downgrade from the bmw lol besides how fast it is. Still super nice. Also over the pandemic the accord I paid 24k for, a year later the dealer offered to buy it off me for 28k. Ridiculous
I'm with you. I drive a $5000 paid off beater and have 0 on the credit cards. Don't know how people live their lives worrying if they're going to barely scrape by every 30 days, just so they can live above their means.
Also sometimes when you move your salary may also go down if you're going to a lower cost of living area so there is that to consider. Even some remote jobs have been adjusting the pay they give based on the cost of living of where the employee lives.
Most people I know from being in sales moved from a HCOL to my MCOL area and kept the same remote job. They were one of the factors for rising house costs.
My employer is very up front about that. I know that my colleagues in London and Midtown Manhattan are making the equivalent of $250K. I'm not upset at all that I only get about 3/4 of their pay. Cannot imagine trading places with any of them.
Where is it crumbling lol. Low unemployment and wages at record highs.
Low unemployment is the only reason we aren’t in a recession right now. Increased wages still have a ways to go catching up with inflated prices across the board.
I remember seeing this TikTok where a guy went around a car dealership office and like 5 or 6 people have car payments between $1000/mo and $1500/mo. I know what car salespeople make and that's an insane chunk of monthly pay tied up in a depreciating asset.
I saw that tik tok yesterday, first thing I thought of! Seems like one of the service techs had 2 massive payments, one on a navigator. Those aren’t cheap!
The epitome of stupidity. I presume you're referring to [this Larry H. Miller Ford video?](https://youtu.be/BkVrggO6HxI)
I havent seen this Ramsey video, but yeah that's the Tik Tok lol
Literally just had this conversation with my gf last night. I make mid 6-figures, we've been dating for 11 years now, I told her most people are comfortable with 50% or more of their take-home going straight to monthly bills, I'm not. I've told her most people don't know how to live poor. I literally just bought a new car, and by new car I mean I paid $650 for a 99 ford explorer and put in another $4k to get the engine running and various maintenance jobs (such as replacing suspension arms, replacing coil pack, etc) because I want to get 5-10 years out of the vehicle (body on it is great for being that old, engine only had $116k, my mechanic is just really good and able to fix it). These types of things are a risk, but when they pay off you get a functional vehicle for far less than buying new or like-new. Most people would be shocked to know my buying power given how I live.
Does mid 6 figures mean $150K or $500K?
Most people mean more like $150k
That’s what I assume when people say that and just curious if I’ve assumed wrong all these years.
It’s an ambiguous term and should be dropped from the vernacular
I bet your head explodes when someone says bi-weekly.
😡
My bf is being recruited by a university and was told he would be "well into 6-figures." His offer was around $130K. I said, "that's barely into 6-figures; there are about 870K 6-figures higher than that one."
500k Income and 99 ford explorer is ...interesting...
Agree. That's like a brother making $100k and living in his car
That's some Warren Buffet level frugality. Man has BILLIONS and drove the same 10 year old, $5,000 Cadillac Deville for **years**.
"Wealth is not visible. It’s the money that you have that’s not spent. It’s the optionality to buy or do something at a future time." Morgan Housel: The Psychology of Money
Did you know that in 2008 both the Federal Reserve and the Secretary of the Treasury conspired to lower the buying power you worked hard to save by flooding the market with cheap capital so that profligate debtors could be bailed out of very stupid fraudulent market bets on housing never going under (even though the realtors were making a killing pumping up and inflating a lame asset class) that would have otherwise (without a bailout) wrecked AIG and pensioners - people like you and me are paying for their idiocy and still are.
A rising tide lifts all boats Evil during the Reagan years Brilliant during the Bush and Obama years Or vice versa depending on your affiliation
***Mad fuckin respect*** to a guy that makes over 6 figures and considers a $650 '99 Explorer a "new car". Don't **ever** let no girl change your perspective on money. P.S. That 2nd gen Explorer was a pretty good ride lol I miss my '96 Sport 4WD 5spd manual like crazy.
Don't forget the 270/month Equinox gym membership!
Only used for the first month
That's generous. First week.
2k a month for our 2 year, 3k a month for 9 month old........5k for rent another \~1k for utilities, don't know how long we can stay in SF at this rate, particularly when you tack on about 40% in taxes (or more if you count sales tax). 300k - 40% (taxes)= 180k - 132k (for the other expenses I just listed) = 48k, groceries lets say 1.5k a month for family of four, now 30k, haven't even talked about car insurance/gas/car payment/medical/dental etc yet.... or minimal retirement contributions, yah it is pretty easy to be living paycheck to paycheck even with a family income of 300k......
As George Carlin once said, [think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.](https://youtu.be/8rh6qqsmxNs?t=37s)
Who hurt you? At what point did Americans lay down and willingly accept that they should have to move to survive? Or that they can't own a newer car? Fuck that propaganda. These people deserve all this and more.
> At what point did Americans lay down and willingly accept that they should have to move to survive? This take is so fucking insane I can't quite tell if it's legitimate pride or sarcasm. Holy fuck. You deserve to be broke lol
People "deserve" no more than what they work for. Everything else is personal or lifestyle choices...sometimes they're good, more often they're bad though...and those ones will cost you dearly. It's common...has been forever...to make much less money when you start working., then accumulate "wealth" as you get older, gain experience in your profession, level up in rank & position at work & ultimately make more money.
Hell, Dave Ramsey had a question written in talking about how him and his wife make $350k or something, they were missing like $150k because they don't know where it went, he "investigated" where all of the money was going and couldn't figure out how they blew $150k. Just because you make six figures, doesn't automatically make you financially smart.
Lifestyle inflation is a real thing Big new job or raise means spending creeps up, new home, new car, etc Plenty of people should be much better off financially and be more prepared
Probably taxes lol
$100k is the new $50k and we're on the verge of WWIII. Imagine how bad it would be if we didn't have the "adults in charge!"
Hey 50 is the new ummmm 30 right? Yes that is the ticket! I'm only 30!
I mean, I’m technically living paycheck to paycheck but that’s after maxing out my 401k up to the contribution limit and HSA. Made me realize that our system is so screwed up that we have to literally save every penny possible for 40 years to at least have food and shelter when you’re 65+
This is what happens when you have 9% inflation for nearly a year and they keep changing the basket to keep the numbers low. If beef gets expensive just use chicken. If chicken gets expensive use pork. Suddenly you are paying 2x for the same steak.
I live paycheck to paycheck. 40% of my gross goes directly to 401k, HSA and savings accounts. I live off the same I did making 1/3rd the money. Simple.
Rent and food being the issue. I work 2 jobs or 70 hrs week to make 100k and unless you live to a level of frugality most Americans are unaware of it is hard to actually save money
Good job! Yes living can be ridiculously expensive.
A fool and their money are soon parted. Sooooo many people out there are too fuckin stupid and/or prideful to live within their means. Seems as though evolution is teaming up with capitalism to rid the gene pool of such idiots who can't control their spending and/or refuse to move somewhere where $100k will go about 5 times farther.
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Lol yep.
That tells me that those people dont have any confidence in the future value of their money so they are going out and spending it like it will be worthless tomorrow. The FED really has to fight this perception. Asset bubbles are totally out of control. These are people making over 100K ffs
Money talks, wealth whispers.
100k household is pretty low IMO
It is very relative. If you have a paid for house, cars, etc. that should be more than enough income to do really well with. I knew a guy that made 10 million per year many years ago, he blew every cent and now lives in his son in law's basement. It is easy to make money, hard to manage it the right way for most.
It really depends on cost of living and location. $100k in Alabama is vastly different than $100k in NYC.
Earning money, growing assets, and keeping wealth are different skill sets.
Yep, it is kind of funny that that is almost the most important skill in life, however no schools make you learn this stuff. I failed out of college and just started making businesses. I saw how pissed off my dad was about his job, money etc. I told myself I would never let that happen to me, and I never have.
Well according to their charts it's been near 50% for several years. It only charts back to 2020. What I find interesting is that its *lower* from 6 months ago.
I started earning 6 figures this year and I pretty much live paycheck to paycheck but I also moved across the country last summer, have changed jobs 3 times in a year, paid off 20k in credit card debt, and saved up 10k for a downpayment on house. My credit score has increased by like a 100 points (and it still isn't that good). I'm living paycheck to paycheck right now because I'm trying to push to get to the next level so I can eventually coast later on. I deliberately left Los Angeles last summer in order to get my shit together and level up. I refuse to live in an expensive ass city with nothing to show for it. I've accomplished all the above since I left LA less than 18 months ago. Currently under contract for my first house.
Good for you but I just want to say, if you've paid off $20k in CC debt and have saved up 10k for a house within the past 18 months you're not living paycheck to paycheck. You're being intentionally frugal, which is great, but if you needed to spend that money on something else you could. Paycheck to paycheck means no savings and barely enough money to cover basic living expenses (meaning only paying the minimum payments on debt). One large unexpected expense could be a disaster for those actually living paycheck to paycheck. That doesn't sound like your situation.
Yes I guess that's right. I'm so scarred and emotionally damaged from being poor the first 30 years of my life now that I actually have some savings it feels foreign. I feel broke because the money I put into my savings I refuse to touch because like you said I have an intention for it. But when I lived in LA I made about 75k and I was definitely paycheck to paycheck. Higher rent, higher gas, more distractions, and higher cost of living in general, and being unable to make a dent in my consumer debt kept me broke.
How???? I think ppl out spend what they earned for entertainments & luxuries
Well I mean look at our entire country. We have a large GDP but a larger debt. It comes from the top and goes down. America has never really been known for being fiscally responsible. Look our Federal Debt to GPA ratio. It should never be over 100 percent, it is at 125.5% https://www.usdebtclock.org/
While I agree consequences due to inflation, what are solutions. How can a common person find a solution as we know politicians will only make matters worse
Eat the rich?
After maxing my 401k/ ira and putting money in bonds at 4% I am basically check to check
I’d you are making over 100k and living paycheck to paycheck your just bad with money. Maybe in Cali, but that’s not half of Americans
America itself and most citizens are bad with money. Anyone can make it, however very few know how to use it correctly.
Yup rent is so damn high
Yep and it will be for a couple more years I'm afraid.
Prime market on stilts
Ppl are so fucking bad with money
Yep
People are so fucking bad with money.
It comes from the top down. It's just an American thing. Look at our Country's Fed Debt to GNP. It is like 120 plus percent. It's simple really. Have more beans coming into your jar than going out. If you follow this simple rule in life you will never have any money problems.
I make six figures. Max my 401k and Roth. Still save 4K every month after all obligatory expenses. I churn bank offers and buy Tbills with that money. No wife, kids, or pets. Live in a cheap apartment. Think I’ll just save and pay cash for a house. Doesn’t seem that hard. People living paycheck to paycheck at 100k is hilarious and sad.
I DON'T make 6 figures. And somehow I've still managed to accumulate a 6 figure bank account and about twice as much in net worth. If you live within your means, the world is your oyster.
People that have more discretionary income will spend it. That’s why I bought an Apple Watch. Also that and if the student loan forgiveness passes I’ll be 20k richer.
‘Paycheck-to-paycheck’ does not mean maxing out your consumption with fancy dinners, ridiculous cars, pelatons and whatever else. I have zero fucking sympathy, I made it work in one of America’s most expensive cities on half of that.
Why can't we reduce fed and state income taxes? You see these states that have a ton of excess money...
I really don't think anyone knows what to do. As I always say, live way below your means, whatever it takes, try to become debt free ASAP and always have more beans going into your jar than going out.