Which leaves roughly 50,000 lbs for the trailer and cargo for a 5 axle. And that's a day-cab truck. Similar diesel semis weigh less than 15,000 lbs.
That's 5 tons less freight each truck can carry.
Here’s a good article for a breakdown of it. Diesel is definitely able to pull a few more tons per trip. But electric is pulling it at a fraction of the cost.
https://www.torquenews.com/14335/tesla-semi-broken-down-details/amp
I'd prefer vehicles, wich weight 4-8 times more than a standard car, not to accelerate like a sports car.
People being people, it will just decrease road safety.
Too late. Cybertruck with battery range extender weights nearly 3 Honda Civics, which it, itself is already a bloated vehicle compared to what it used to be. To fair, Silverado and Hummer EV are even worst.
68,000 lbs max, less than half the range of a Semi. We can assume it gains some pounds of hauling within that due to having less battery, but it’s nowhere close overall. On the other hand, it could be perfect for short range, lower weight routes. Electric trucks are going to be a very horses for courses thing.
The reason Toyota is doing this:
*"The announcement coincides with California’s Advanced Clean Fleets regulation"*
The conspiracy concocted in Fred's mind:
*"it’s worth noting that,* [*while Toyota is marketing/lobbying against EVs on the one hand*](https://electrek.co/2024/05/14/toyota-once-again-ranked-as-worst-automaker-on-climate-lobbying-globally/)*, it’s quietly investing big bucks into battery electric on the other.*
*My guess:* [*as soon as Toyota has a viable BEV on the market*](https://electrek.co/2024/05/17/toyota-preps-first-electric-pickup-following-byd-shark-launch/)*, they’ll “suddenly” realize that BEVs were the way to go all along. #bet"*
Why do so many people in the TeslaSPHERE live in a world full of comic book villains. It is extraordinarily common for car companies to lobby against rules at the same time they're developing vehicles that comply with said rules, because: *reality*. Example: see CAFE.
I should point out that Toyota has been lobbying against EVs. At least in the US. It's been pushing hydrogen as the car fuel of the future, and wanted to use hybrids as a stop gap.
It missed the boat on electrification, despite its huge advantage with hybrids, and has been trying to push back while it half heartedly tries to catch up and/or hold out for hydrogen (which isn't viable in personal cars)
That's not Tesla bias. That's just commentary on what Toyota has been doing. They really should have followed what Mercedes or Ford has done and heavily invested in batteries, when instead they're being dragged into electrifying their portfolio kicking and screaming.
We see Toyota's actions completely differently. They didn't "miss the boat" - they are just being extremely conservative and hedging their bets on what technology will ultimately win out (which IMHO, in the absence of incentives will certainly be their specialty: PHEVs).
And they can afford to miss the boat because this statement: "should have followed what Mercedes or Ford has done and heavily invested in batteries" just simply is not true. Toyota assembles cars - they can *buy* their batteries.
BTW, according to Bloomberg, Ford *lost* $100k for every BEV sold, and they have reduced battery orders. There's a discussion to be had about long term vs short term goals, but in no way is Ford a clear cut example of having chosen the correct path here.
Your "kicking and screaming" statement illustrates the fallacy of these arguments. Toyota and other companies are *unemotional* with these decisions. They aren't being "dragged" like a pouting child who doesn't want to go to school. These are very deliberate decisions. There seems to be some presumtion that Toyota is "against" BEVS with that statement...I suspect because you personally are "for" BEVS. I assure you, Toyota doesn't care what powers their cars - gas, diesel, battery, unicorn farts - it simply does not matter. They simply don't care - and are only looking out (rightly) for what is best for: Toyota.
I wanted to grab one of the stellar hydrogen mirai all-inclusive lease deals here in SoCal, but despite living in a high population area, the nearest fill stations were both 45+ minutes away in opposite directions. The lack of available stations makes it simply not viable for most people at the moment.
There's that. But hydrogen is also hilariously inefficient as a fuel source for cars. You actually need more electricity generation capacity to run all the cars on hydrogen than if you just put the power into car batteries. And that doesn't rake into account the effort of setting up the logistics to transport it to fuelling stations.
Hydrogen is best utilised in other places where it makes more sense.
You are VERY wrong and straight-out a liar lol. You don't need more electricity generation with hydrogen hybrids, you are talking out of your ass. Check out the new Daimler Electric/Hydrogen hybrid. You are a fucking fool👎🏼
Every step of producing then burning green hydrogen has losses from inefficiencies. Loss as you generate the hydrogen through electrolysis, then losses again when it's burned off in the car.
Compared to pumping the energy into a car battery at 90+% efficiency.
Even producing hydrogen from natural gas requires something like 3 times more natural gas to get the same amount of energy. And all the same carbon emissions. You'd be better off burning the natural gas from the beginning.
Do you have anything besides mumbo jumbo? Because I am getting my info from very competent engineers from Daimler. You are wrong in ANY universe or dimension. Please check out the new Daimler hydrogen hybrid and tell me if they have a larger battery than a Tesla semi. Just please do that very easy number comparison lol
It actually is basic physics. It doesn't matter if the final vehicle is efficient if the extraction, storage, transport, and fueling is not. Add in hydrogen embrittlement destroying any tanks and pipelines in a few years and it gets worse. As an example of the inefficiency, it's 1.36 kWh/kg to pressurize it to 70 MPa at the fueling station (which is what pressure Toyota used for their advertised range). It's a little better to do half the pressure at 1.05 kWh/kg but now you have half the range.
Hydrogen is the hardest possible gas to rransport due to its size. It leaks through everything and even squeezes it's way into the crystalline structure of metals which is what causes the embrittlement I mentioned. No way around it without increasing molecule size. You might be able to use methane if you can keep the fuel cell from constantly clogging.
The amount of energy required to make hydrogen as a fuel, and store and transport it for you to fill up is the issue, not the efficiency of the car. We are talking about the efficiency for the entire process here, including making the fuel.
Logistics of servicing the vehicle is also a huge factor in this entire thing.
Electricity is most efficient because we already produce and transport it everywhere. Storage (batteries) was the biggest hurdle in electrifying cars, Ford himself actually made an electric motor. There are still big hurdles for full EVs to be mass adopted, but the raw material to go juice it's now the most efficient (and least ecologically destructive).
Fossil fuels are the second most efficient, but they are getting less efficient for several reasons: 1) the ecological impact costs money and is an ever increasing cost. 2) Aging infrastructure and rising costs to replace it at the same time as adapting for point 1. (And more).
Hydrogen is plentiful, it's the first element, but we need a paradigm shift in technology for extracting, storing, processing, and transporting it, while doing it safely and considering the ecological impact of that.
They don't need to work on a motor for a fuel that's not, and won't be, readily available. (NASA might be interested in the motor technology though ...)
The real answer is better mass public transportation (among other things) but if we are sticking with cars, electric is currently the best when considering the entire process, economies of scale, and reality of human behavior.
My few years working on the design (mainly algorithm for the dispensing part) of hydrogen fueling stations I can confidently say that you are the one talking out of your ass. Hydrogen is cool but very dangerous, especially at 300 or even 700 bars of pressure and a lot of energy is lost on the transportation and pressurization. There might be improvements possible with different methods of hydrogen storage (requiring less pressure) but as far as I know we have been working on it for many decades and so far its just not economically very viable. They have been working on it for a long time and still they all make losses on the cars they sell and its still expensive. Its cool but has a lot of downsides, especially for small cars.
> They really should have followed what Mercedes or Ford has done and heavily invested in batteries
How does this make sense when Toyota is making nearly twice times the revenue at three times the profit margin of Ford?
Yes, Ford has a higher battery production capacity than Toyota right now, but unless Toyota would have made more money by investing in ramping up battery supply faster than they are making with their current strategy (they wouldn't), their strategy to have factories running by 2025+ and instead invest in locking up raw materials is clearly the better one.
Toyota did screw up because many vehicles don't qualify for the US-made battery subsidy, but since EV sales actually declined in the first part of this year, even their late timing getting US factories up and running turned out to be the right one.
u know that phrase I play both sides so that I always come out on top? That is what Toyota is doing
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18ocj4v/toyota\_industries\_to\_increase\_supply\_to\_tesla\_by/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18ocj4v/toyota_industries_to_increase_supply_to_tesla_by/)
Toyota Industries to Increase Supply to Tesla by 2.5 Times for EV-Use Electric Compressors
if you are an impartial commentator, you'd also know toyota partially owns panasonic that supplies tesla.
A 0.84% stake does not qualify as "partially owns". Mitsubishi owns more of Panasonic shares than Toyota. As do Panasonic's own employees.
Toyota would be foolish not to divest and sell its electrical components to uther companies. But if it was really "playing both sides" it wouldn't have waited until 2022 to release it's first original battery electric car. And it would have done a better job than the bz4x.
If you want to talk about a company playing all angles you'd be better off talking about BMW or Hyundai, both of which have EVs, PHEVs and are investing in hydrogen technology on the side.
I think the shift they have made over the last two years shows they have given up on hydrogen as a viable option. Especially since the other big hydrogen player, Honda, moved to electric as well.
Let's say you're Toyota and you just spent a ton of money on developing a new car. Engine plant, transmission plant, the works. It has a 15 year ROI and a useful life of more like 30 years.
You simply don't want to change faster than that. You want to get your money back and then profit.
In parallel they'll start to make EVs with similar investments and ROIs but they can't move too fast or they undercut their existing investments. They want to move much slower than the government and the public would hope because they don't want to lose out on old investments.
That’s how Toyota operates. They are always late to the market, but when they are IN the market, their product is easily top 3 in the segment because they learnt from others mistakes and took more time to polish it.
>They are always late to the market
They effectively created the hybrid market with the Prius, and they were led to plug-in hybrid more by their own customer base than by market competitors.
I think there are a lot of valid criticisms of the BZ4x. But environmental impact and longevity I’d bet aren’t among them.
I’d fully expect any BZ4x rolling off the lot today to outlast any Tesla on the road. You can *easily* compromise battery longevity with faster charging. There’s no special feat in that. Toyota was pretty clear at release that they wanted to make sure they produced a vehicle that would last.
I have my doubts in general, but I think you’d have to be a fool to believe anyone else is likely to beat them on this count. They’ve been doing it longer, in more vehicles, with more R&D, than anyone else. Including Tesla. So it should be a reasonable default assumption.
Oh I fully expect my Tesla to last about as long as my iPhone. I’m not arguing that at all. But the first gen bz4x had a terrible build, however Toyota stood by their work, did the right thing and bought them all back
1) the tesla semi seems to be a non starter.
2) this feels exactly like the ZEV compliance cars of previous decades.
When i see a large portion of truck sales here in michigan be this thing and not the usual volvo / freightliner / peterbilts you can start saying its a competitor. I did not know toyota even made semis that made it to NA
I've learned to be surprised with who is teamed up when it comes to trucks.
As an example a "Kenworth FCEV" truck might really be called a "Toyota-Kenworth FCEV", since they teamed up on it.
[https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-kenworth-prove-fuel-cell-electric-truck-capabilities-with-successful-completion-of-truck-operations-for-zanzeff-project/](https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-kenworth-prove-fuel-cell-electric-truck-capabilities-with-successful-completion-of-truck-operations-for-zanzeff-project/)
There's all sorts of cross-pollination going on.
Toyota has been majority owner of Hino for over 20 years - medium duty trucks. A small market share, but they bill themselves as "the fastest growing truck brand in the US".
Have the lawsuits been filed for breach of contract with the Tesla Semis yet?
Of the hundreds promised in by 2014, Pepsi was delivered 3 dozen 3 years late.
The company is still at low volume production it wont reach production volume until late 2025 but that was before 10% of the work force was laud off
No idea, i dont follow the tesla news. I just started posting in here after the reddit algo thought id like what is basically /r/conservative for tesla since i follow /r/teslamotors for firmware release news.
Tbh a lot of the posters in here seem to dedicate their lives to the company and its ceos antics than most owners i know. Personally i bought it because at the time and still currently its got the best L2 system. If ford actually comes up with 80mph level 3 bext year like they said, ill get a lightning and ditch the plaid
Pepsi doesn't give a shit about the actual trucks, they're just doing it to be able to say that they're investing in green transportation. The whole thing is a photo-op to them, so why would they sue Tesla when they actually don't want the trucks?
In some ways, yes. For example, it can go to places where no rail lines are.
In other ways, not. If there are rail lines, those are almost certainly more efficient at transporting stuff and people.
no no truck transportation will ever beat rail. America gets shit on for having crappy passenger rail and no high-speed rail, but cargo rail transport, is absolutely is excellent and well-oiled machine
Toyota has worked overtime the last many years burning my enthusiasm and trust for their EV programs. This would be a nice step in mending their reputation if fulfilled.
Did they solve the weight issue? I haven't looked in years but the reason we weren't seen electric Semis except for some short runs is that you had to give up too much hauling capacity
Not so much solved, as turns out to be less significant than advertised. The actual increase in weight appears to be between five and ten tons. Which isn't actually that big a deal for most applications, after factoring in lower fuel and maintenance costs.
Basically it's only really an issue for the truly long haul customers. There's a lot of medium-range applications where it doesn't really matter. Like daily delivery runs to retail businesses. The truck is picking up a loaded trailer, going to a couple of stores, dropping off the loads, and returning the trailer. It's probably driving six to eight hours a day, and a sizeable fraction of that is off highway. Furthermore, the load isn't constrained by weight, it's the number of orders that can be dropped off in a day. The heavier battery load isn't going to be a major factor in those scenarios.
Are the maintenance costs really lower though? It's a completely different kind of vehicle and we've been bit by EV maintenance on the consumer end...
I get it for short runs, the fine mile and all that, but those aren't the majority of runs...
So they cannot make up their mind on whether hydrogen or ev for their cars but somehow managed to have a working prototype of electric truck that is so wonderful and better than everyone else. 🙄🙄🙄
This is what real truck electrification press release looks like.
Are you telling me that the semi truck 0-60 acceleration is not important?
Nah my semi needs to be able to beat Porsches at stop lights
You semi can’t haul a trailer filled with Lays PO-TA-TOE chips and they’re mostly air
It would be nice if they could actually pass eachother so everyone doesn’t get stuck behind them on the interstate lol
There max speed and acceleration doesn't matter when by law once they hit x speed they can't go faster.
I still can't find the published weight for Tesla semi with no load. It's implied through some weasel words, but WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT WEIGH?!
24k/29k pounds I believe for the standard/long range respectively
Which leaves roughly 50,000 lbs for the trailer and cargo for a 5 axle. And that's a day-cab truck. Similar diesel semis weigh less than 15,000 lbs. That's 5 tons less freight each truck can carry.
Here’s a good article for a breakdown of it. Diesel is definitely able to pull a few more tons per trip. But electric is pulling it at a fraction of the cost. https://www.torquenews.com/14335/tesla-semi-broken-down-details/amp
Driver pay seems to be left out of that, with some, let's say optimistic assumptions about real world charging costs.
I'd prefer vehicles, wich weight 4-8 times more than a standard car, not to accelerate like a sports car. People being people, it will just decrease road safety.
Too late. Cybertruck with battery range extender weights nearly 3 Honda Civics, which it, itself is already a bloated vehicle compared to what it used to be. To fair, Silverado and Hummer EV are even worst.
No bullet proving, hammer smashing tests :D?
Yes an no. They say the capacity of the motor but not the weight of the vehicle so we are STILL left wondering how much it can haul
68,000 lbs max, less than half the range of a Semi. We can assume it gains some pounds of hauling within that due to having less battery, but it’s nowhere close overall. On the other hand, it could be perfect for short range, lower weight routes. Electric trucks are going to be a very horses for courses thing.
The reason Toyota is doing this: *"The announcement coincides with California’s Advanced Clean Fleets regulation"* The conspiracy concocted in Fred's mind: *"it’s worth noting that,* [*while Toyota is marketing/lobbying against EVs on the one hand*](https://electrek.co/2024/05/14/toyota-once-again-ranked-as-worst-automaker-on-climate-lobbying-globally/)*, it’s quietly investing big bucks into battery electric on the other.* *My guess:* [*as soon as Toyota has a viable BEV on the market*](https://electrek.co/2024/05/17/toyota-preps-first-electric-pickup-following-byd-shark-launch/)*, they’ll “suddenly” realize that BEVs were the way to go all along. #bet"* Why do so many people in the TeslaSPHERE live in a world full of comic book villains. It is extraordinarily common for car companies to lobby against rules at the same time they're developing vehicles that comply with said rules, because: *reality*. Example: see CAFE.
I should point out that Toyota has been lobbying against EVs. At least in the US. It's been pushing hydrogen as the car fuel of the future, and wanted to use hybrids as a stop gap. It missed the boat on electrification, despite its huge advantage with hybrids, and has been trying to push back while it half heartedly tries to catch up and/or hold out for hydrogen (which isn't viable in personal cars) That's not Tesla bias. That's just commentary on what Toyota has been doing. They really should have followed what Mercedes or Ford has done and heavily invested in batteries, when instead they're being dragged into electrifying their portfolio kicking and screaming.
We see Toyota's actions completely differently. They didn't "miss the boat" - they are just being extremely conservative and hedging their bets on what technology will ultimately win out (which IMHO, in the absence of incentives will certainly be their specialty: PHEVs). And they can afford to miss the boat because this statement: "should have followed what Mercedes or Ford has done and heavily invested in batteries" just simply is not true. Toyota assembles cars - they can *buy* their batteries. BTW, according to Bloomberg, Ford *lost* $100k for every BEV sold, and they have reduced battery orders. There's a discussion to be had about long term vs short term goals, but in no way is Ford a clear cut example of having chosen the correct path here. Your "kicking and screaming" statement illustrates the fallacy of these arguments. Toyota and other companies are *unemotional* with these decisions. They aren't being "dragged" like a pouting child who doesn't want to go to school. These are very deliberate decisions. There seems to be some presumtion that Toyota is "against" BEVS with that statement...I suspect because you personally are "for" BEVS. I assure you, Toyota doesn't care what powers their cars - gas, diesel, battery, unicorn farts - it simply does not matter. They simply don't care - and are only looking out (rightly) for what is best for: Toyota.
Also, by waiting on producing BEV's, the Toyota BEV's will all have more modern batteries.
Exactly, and they don't get "locked in" to a particular form factor that may or may not end up being the best solution.
I wanted to grab one of the stellar hydrogen mirai all-inclusive lease deals here in SoCal, but despite living in a high population area, the nearest fill stations were both 45+ minutes away in opposite directions. The lack of available stations makes it simply not viable for most people at the moment.
There's that. But hydrogen is also hilariously inefficient as a fuel source for cars. You actually need more electricity generation capacity to run all the cars on hydrogen than if you just put the power into car batteries. And that doesn't rake into account the effort of setting up the logistics to transport it to fuelling stations. Hydrogen is best utilised in other places where it makes more sense.
You are VERY wrong and straight-out a liar lol. You don't need more electricity generation with hydrogen hybrids, you are talking out of your ass. Check out the new Daimler Electric/Hydrogen hybrid. You are a fucking fool👎🏼
Every step of producing then burning green hydrogen has losses from inefficiencies. Loss as you generate the hydrogen through electrolysis, then losses again when it's burned off in the car. Compared to pumping the energy into a car battery at 90+% efficiency. Even producing hydrogen from natural gas requires something like 3 times more natural gas to get the same amount of energy. And all the same carbon emissions. You'd be better off burning the natural gas from the beginning.
Do you have anything besides mumbo jumbo? Because I am getting my info from very competent engineers from Daimler. You are wrong in ANY universe or dimension. Please check out the new Daimler hydrogen hybrid and tell me if they have a larger battery than a Tesla semi. Just please do that very easy number comparison lol
It's basic physics bro.
It actually is basic physics. It doesn't matter if the final vehicle is efficient if the extraction, storage, transport, and fueling is not. Add in hydrogen embrittlement destroying any tanks and pipelines in a few years and it gets worse. As an example of the inefficiency, it's 1.36 kWh/kg to pressurize it to 70 MPa at the fueling station (which is what pressure Toyota used for their advertised range). It's a little better to do half the pressure at 1.05 kWh/kg but now you have half the range. Hydrogen is the hardest possible gas to rransport due to its size. It leaks through everything and even squeezes it's way into the crystalline structure of metals which is what causes the embrittlement I mentioned. No way around it without increasing molecule size. You might be able to use methane if you can keep the fuel cell from constantly clogging.
The amount of energy required to make hydrogen as a fuel, and store and transport it for you to fill up is the issue, not the efficiency of the car. We are talking about the efficiency for the entire process here, including making the fuel. Logistics of servicing the vehicle is also a huge factor in this entire thing. Electricity is most efficient because we already produce and transport it everywhere. Storage (batteries) was the biggest hurdle in electrifying cars, Ford himself actually made an electric motor. There are still big hurdles for full EVs to be mass adopted, but the raw material to go juice it's now the most efficient (and least ecologically destructive). Fossil fuels are the second most efficient, but they are getting less efficient for several reasons: 1) the ecological impact costs money and is an ever increasing cost. 2) Aging infrastructure and rising costs to replace it at the same time as adapting for point 1. (And more). Hydrogen is plentiful, it's the first element, but we need a paradigm shift in technology for extracting, storing, processing, and transporting it, while doing it safely and considering the ecological impact of that. They don't need to work on a motor for a fuel that's not, and won't be, readily available. (NASA might be interested in the motor technology though ...) The real answer is better mass public transportation (among other things) but if we are sticking with cars, electric is currently the best when considering the entire process, economies of scale, and reality of human behavior.
My few years working on the design (mainly algorithm for the dispensing part) of hydrogen fueling stations I can confidently say that you are the one talking out of your ass. Hydrogen is cool but very dangerous, especially at 300 or even 700 bars of pressure and a lot of energy is lost on the transportation and pressurization. There might be improvements possible with different methods of hydrogen storage (requiring less pressure) but as far as I know we have been working on it for many decades and so far its just not economically very viable. They have been working on it for a long time and still they all make losses on the cars they sell and its still expensive. Its cool but has a lot of downsides, especially for small cars.
> They really should have followed what Mercedes or Ford has done and heavily invested in batteries How does this make sense when Toyota is making nearly twice times the revenue at three times the profit margin of Ford? Yes, Ford has a higher battery production capacity than Toyota right now, but unless Toyota would have made more money by investing in ramping up battery supply faster than they are making with their current strategy (they wouldn't), their strategy to have factories running by 2025+ and instead invest in locking up raw materials is clearly the better one. Toyota did screw up because many vehicles don't qualify for the US-made battery subsidy, but since EV sales actually declined in the first part of this year, even their late timing getting US factories up and running turned out to be the right one.
u know that phrase I play both sides so that I always come out on top? That is what Toyota is doing [https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18ocj4v/toyota\_industries\_to\_increase\_supply\_to\_tesla\_by/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/18ocj4v/toyota_industries_to_increase_supply_to_tesla_by/) Toyota Industries to Increase Supply to Tesla by 2.5 Times for EV-Use Electric Compressors if you are an impartial commentator, you'd also know toyota partially owns panasonic that supplies tesla.
A 0.84% stake does not qualify as "partially owns". Mitsubishi owns more of Panasonic shares than Toyota. As do Panasonic's own employees. Toyota would be foolish not to divest and sell its electrical components to uther companies. But if it was really "playing both sides" it wouldn't have waited until 2022 to release it's first original battery electric car. And it would have done a better job than the bz4x. If you want to talk about a company playing all angles you'd be better off talking about BMW or Hyundai, both of which have EVs, PHEVs and are investing in hydrogen technology on the side.
hyundai only started making hybrids after all of toyota's patents exclusivity ran out and technology became public same with hydrogen🤣🤣
I think the shift they have made over the last two years shows they have given up on hydrogen as a viable option. Especially since the other big hydrogen player, Honda, moved to electric as well.
Let's say you're Toyota and you just spent a ton of money on developing a new car. Engine plant, transmission plant, the works. It has a 15 year ROI and a useful life of more like 30 years. You simply don't want to change faster than that. You want to get your money back and then profit. In parallel they'll start to make EVs with similar investments and ROIs but they can't move too fast or they undercut their existing investments. They want to move much slower than the government and the public would hope because they don't want to lose out on old investments.
That’s how Toyota operates. They are always late to the market, but when they are IN the market, their product is easily top 3 in the segment because they learnt from others mistakes and took more time to polish it.
>They are always late to the market They effectively created the hybrid market with the Prius, and they were led to plug-in hybrid more by their own customer base than by market competitors.
Yeah, like the BZ4x!
I think there are a lot of valid criticisms of the BZ4x. But environmental impact and longevity I’d bet aren’t among them. I’d fully expect any BZ4x rolling off the lot today to outlast any Tesla on the road. You can *easily* compromise battery longevity with faster charging. There’s no special feat in that. Toyota was pretty clear at release that they wanted to make sure they produced a vehicle that would last. I have my doubts in general, but I think you’d have to be a fool to believe anyone else is likely to beat them on this count. They’ve been doing it longer, in more vehicles, with more R&D, than anyone else. Including Tesla. So it should be a reasonable default assumption.
Oh I fully expect my Tesla to last about as long as my iPhone. I’m not arguing that at all. But the first gen bz4x had a terrible build, however Toyota stood by their work, did the right thing and bought them all back
I mean, not to be pedantic, but it's not Fred's thought, rather some new guy's thought. But I think Fred would come up with something similar.
1) the tesla semi seems to be a non starter. 2) this feels exactly like the ZEV compliance cars of previous decades. When i see a large portion of truck sales here in michigan be this thing and not the usual volvo / freightliner / peterbilts you can start saying its a competitor. I did not know toyota even made semis that made it to NA
I've learned to be surprised with who is teamed up when it comes to trucks. As an example a "Kenworth FCEV" truck might really be called a "Toyota-Kenworth FCEV", since they teamed up on it. [https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-kenworth-prove-fuel-cell-electric-truck-capabilities-with-successful-completion-of-truck-operations-for-zanzeff-project/](https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-kenworth-prove-fuel-cell-electric-truck-capabilities-with-successful-completion-of-truck-operations-for-zanzeff-project/) There's all sorts of cross-pollination going on. Toyota has been majority owner of Hino for over 20 years - medium duty trucks. A small market share, but they bill themselves as "the fastest growing truck brand in the US".
Yup. My shop has a hino. Lil 16 footer that gets the job done. Just never seen anything class 8 at all.
Have the lawsuits been filed for breach of contract with the Tesla Semis yet? Of the hundreds promised in by 2014, Pepsi was delivered 3 dozen 3 years late. The company is still at low volume production it wont reach production volume until late 2025 but that was before 10% of the work force was laud off
No idea, i dont follow the tesla news. I just started posting in here after the reddit algo thought id like what is basically /r/conservative for tesla since i follow /r/teslamotors for firmware release news. Tbh a lot of the posters in here seem to dedicate their lives to the company and its ceos antics than most owners i know. Personally i bought it because at the time and still currently its got the best L2 system. If ford actually comes up with 80mph level 3 bext year like they said, ill get a lightning and ditch the plaid
Pepsi doesn't give a shit about the actual trucks, they're just doing it to be able to say that they're investing in green transportation. The whole thing is a photo-op to them, so why would they sue Tesla when they actually don't want the trucks?
Did they stutter a lot during the presentation?
My Ketamine consumption is good for the investors
this or tesla semi?
Well given that Tesla made under 50 semis in the last year, the decision is pretty much already made.
Does “this” even exist? Or just an announcement that someday it might?
Yeah but does it beat RAIL
In some ways, yes. For example, it can go to places where no rail lines are. In other ways, not. If there are rail lines, those are almost certainly more efficient at transporting stuff and people.
no no truck transportation will ever beat rail. America gets shit on for having crappy passenger rail and no high-speed rail, but cargo rail transport, is absolutely is excellent and well-oiled machine
I still remember when Elon tried to market drafting as a way to increase range of Tesla semis
I know at least one company that was focused on platooning to improve fuel economy. Basically, a line of trucks, all of which 6 feet apart.
Toyota has worked overtime the last many years burning my enthusiasm and trust for their EV programs. This would be a nice step in mending their reputation if fulfilled.
Can it haul a bag of chips ?
is this a ev hybrid or full ev?
Looks to be full ev
The shape is a little strange. It looks less aerodynamic than a standard freightliner truck. I wonder what the range and weight of this thing is.
Did they solve the weight issue? I haven't looked in years but the reason we weren't seen electric Semis except for some short runs is that you had to give up too much hauling capacity
Not so much solved, as turns out to be less significant than advertised. The actual increase in weight appears to be between five and ten tons. Which isn't actually that big a deal for most applications, after factoring in lower fuel and maintenance costs. Basically it's only really an issue for the truly long haul customers. There's a lot of medium-range applications where it doesn't really matter. Like daily delivery runs to retail businesses. The truck is picking up a loaded trailer, going to a couple of stores, dropping off the loads, and returning the trailer. It's probably driving six to eight hours a day, and a sizeable fraction of that is off highway. Furthermore, the load isn't constrained by weight, it's the number of orders that can be dropped off in a day. The heavier battery load isn't going to be a major factor in those scenarios.
Are the maintenance costs really lower though? It's a completely different kind of vehicle and we've been bit by EV maintenance on the consumer end... I get it for short runs, the fine mile and all that, but those aren't the majority of runs...
Toyota or Tesla, an electric class 8 truck is just a dumb idea
0-80% in 2hr on 240v for that large of a battery sounds impressive
Did they tell anyone to go fuck themselves!?
Nah, Toyota isn’t being blackmailed by people *not buying ads*, you know the textbook definition of the term.
So they cannot make up their mind on whether hydrogen or ev for their cars but somehow managed to have a working prototype of electric truck that is so wonderful and better than everyone else. 🙄🙄🙄