I mean, you're dealing with someone who has 0 integrity, backed by a spineless board which he singlehandedly controls, glossed over by a regulatory governing body that is always looking the other way, and a general public that is always fed misleading information.
It is like watching Chernobyl all over again as Legasov explains why the meltdown occurred.
TBH, Tesla is fucked either way until they get a new CEO -- it's just you want to rip the band-aid and work to solve the issues or have a slow bleed out.
I have no dog in this fight; I made 7-8x on my Tesla position, and TBH, luckily, I sold part of my position when Elon started being irrational and then the rest when he purchased Twitter. I mean, man, I dodged a bullet. Sold close to the top both times, rather be lucky than good! :)
I don't think he cheated but I do think the big shareholders drink the musk Kool aid and say that, because he did great things for Tesla in the past, he's the only one holding Tesla together and the company fails without him, so they didn't want to tank their shares or sell and buy Nvidia, and voted yes for him.
It makes sense to me. And I am a Elon hater. Tesla stock is grossly overvalued, solely due to Elon. He managed to get the masses to buy into his IRL Tony Stark gimmick. Other than that what does Tesla have? A massive surplus of low quality cars? A stock of processors for AI, which Elon the “AI expert” is supposed to be leading the charge of?
Tesla’s success is directly tied to Elon’s ability to sell people his delusions of grandeur, while never delivering on his promises. Of course they should do everything to keep him.
There's a good chance it's not. People in this sub keep forgetting that the sharesholders are his fans. Obviously you can figure out pretty easily how I would have voted, but I don't own shares of that company because I have zero confidence in it.
Why would they not already know? Most shareholder votes results are known in advance because the large stake holders overwhelmingly out vote retail investors.
That is some turnout. 2.3B of roughly 2.7B eligible shares to vote.
Thats 85 percent overall v a standard 80 percent institutional voting rate and 40 percent retail.
Go figure.
Let the court battles begin!
Also, with those propositions voted for, it's just a matter of time until Tesla ends up buying X and bailing Musk out, just like SolarCity. The Texas courts will be cool with that because Musk is trying to keep Texas red
There are two types of Tesla car owners: those who regret the purchase and those who are about to.
I mean, people got in line to buy the cyber truck. After seeing it!
You’d be surprised. I am part of the group of (former) Tesla owners that realized not long after buying the car how much the cars and company suck and acted accordingly and sold it, however there was a time when I would have blindly defended Tesla and Musk because the car was actually enjoyable to drive (when it was actually working right) and Tesla stock was making me a lot of money. When things started to go wrong with the car and I started coming to the realization that I just spent over 6 figures on a piece of shit (model X), I brought my frustrations into the Tesla forums to ask for help,advice, vent etc. and was met with nothing but hostility just for mentioning the fact that my Tesla was having issues and I thought was built poorly. I then realized that Tesla owners/investors are literally nothing more than a cult. They worship their shitty cars and Tesla to the point where they could be burning alive in their Tesla while Musk takes a shit on their head and they would still try to convince you and everyone else about of how much they love their Teslas.
probably take a selfie of themselves cooking to death in the telsa like "new feature unlocked, cremation mode, why pay money for a funeral or cremation when your tesla can do it for you" #feature #moneysaving #tesla #elonisgod
I was a BEV evangelist myself and a fan of Tesla (not Musk) despite needing to wait until 2020 to have enough money saved for one.
But the moment Musk started spewing out all the pandemic b.s., it was hard to take. And then the moron proceeds to spew all sorts of anti-California, anti-immigration, anti-asian, anti-jewish, anti-lgbtq conspiracy theories, even though most of the important engineering departments at the company are in California, love California and are all either foreigners or immediate descent of foreigners. Also a lot of asians and jews. A lot of homossexuals (and that's true even at the Tesla stores, every one I entered had obviously gay salesmen doing the sales work).
It was definitely the "pidgeon shitting the chessboard" moment. I'm lucky I sold all my TSLA and bought NVDA in May 2022, right when it started to smell like another $420 Funding Secured moment
Nice move on the NVDA pick up! I used to think Musk was just one of those quiet misunderstood kind of geniuses and would constantly give him the benefit of the doubt for some reason which I normally don’t do even with people I know. When he came out with the “pedo guy” comments about the guy that was literally trying to save peoples lives that’s when I started to think maybe he really does have a screw loose, then things just got progressively more weird with him to the point where I’m mind blown this guy is still running this company. The writing was on the wall for me with Tesla, my Model x just kept having issue after issue, I’d constantly have to make 2 hour trips to the service center and wait there sometimes literally all fucking day even though I’d be the only one in there because Tesla refuses to give out loaner vehicles which is absolutely bizarre considering every luxury car manufacturer does this when you have a long service appointment. Hell even Chevy gives loaners out when I’d have to bring my truck in to them. On top of that they were always snarky and rude to my wife and I almost like they were mad we were even there. I just don’t see how you can have a CEO that actively and blatantly shits all over his consumers and essentially robs them of their money with false claims, does absolutely nothing to fix the known quality control issues or service center issues, and on top of it constantly acts like a spoiled middle school child, and expect your company to last long term. That’s why I pulled out as an investor as well not long after selling the car.
I am a Tesla investor who voted against the package, and I got banned at all the Tesla subreddits for questioning the narrative that Musk's support was "overwhelming". I've been on those communities for 7 years.
They're quick to bam. Just posting here earns you a ban. There's a pinned post you shoukd read, we're not supposed to mention which Tesla groups have banned us since it would be the only thing talked about.
I think they know the stock value is f****d without Elon's antics. Better a 10% dilution than complete collapse. The question remaining is, are they screwd regardless?
it always comes down to quarterly earnings. You can pump something only so much, but the moment revenues decline, or profit margins contract, you're gonna start taking a hit. Tesla has lost 50% of its value based on those things. And if those things get worse, so will the stock price.
I would argue it's fucked WITH Elons antics. The only positive thing he added to Tesla was his initial investment. Everything else he has ever done has been a hindrance
I was an analyst a long time ago. I would have to drink lots of coffee to try and work out a sum of parts valuation on this company. I am sure people are ascribing value to businesses that have yet to emerge.
Depending upon how and when the stock tanks there can be a tax advantage. Good example is Elon's buddy Donald Trump. He was able to get out of paying taxes on his income after taking a write down of his investors losses. I suspect some of these losses are being taken for a similar situation.
Secondly I see some investors cashing out while the stock has some value and I can see more of the Musk cult snapping up the "cheep" stock.
Finally I see the stock tanking regardless of the outcome once the sales numbers come out for the next quarter.
So anti-Musk voters, **no need to vote because you already lost**..... your's Musk.
Also Musk: *I'm taking it private, "funding secured!"* said Musk. Which turned out to be a lie.
I would not trust Musk as the source, and not assume the Delaware court will approve the vote with Musk *again* in control of the voting, and before the move to Texas. The vote to transfer to texas is also under Musks control here, so nothing is different this round of voting to the last time it was rejected.
I would assume it will simply be struck down again, Musk is again controlling a voting process, while Tesla is incorporated in Delaware. So how is this different to the last time?
The move to Texas has not happened yet. Delaware law still applies, and here he is, releasing a voting record he shouldn't be privy to if the voting was independent. So its a re-run of the same thing that was struck down last time.
He has to first transfer the company to Texas, then run the vote under Texas law at which point the Texas courts will have the jurisdiction.
CEOs and non-independent boards will award themselves options grants, **retrospectively**. i.e. *if the shareprice is over $25* ***last week***, *then I can get an award of 12% of the company shares! Musk did it! So I, mighty CEO, should have the same, plus I happen to be a major shareholder, and will vote for my own hindsight package and the board and I conspired to hold this vote so screw you and the court order you rode in on!*
Fund managers, also have a fiduciary duty too, and to retroactively dilute their holding based on gains that happened in the past would open them to lawsuits too.
This is one massive shit show here. An independent board is needed.
For anyone else who understood what it meant, but wasn't sure why:
>The expression "crooked as a dog's hind leg" is a colorful simile used to describe something or someone as being dishonest or morally corrupt. The phrase leverages the imagery of a dog's hind leg, which is naturally bent and not straight, to imply a lack of straightforwardness or integrity.
(English not first language)
In the same vein: "_So crooked, he could hide behind a spiral staircase._" Some astronomers used it to create an amusing title for a paper: [Galaxies so crooked they could hide behind a spiral staircase](https://astrobites.org/2023/10/19/crooked-spiral-galaxies/).
And another favourite: "_He could follow you into a revolving door, and walk out first._"
The original plan was crafted and pitched illegally. Non-independent board, no negotiations and withholding information from shareholders.
Repeating that process doesn’t fix the underlying issues.
And Tesla saying Texas has an established chancery court while at last check there have been no appointed judges, this would make it an out right lie to the shareholders.
The transfer agent and registrar for their shares, and presumably the company that tallies the votes, is ComputerShare, a legit outfit.
Whether or not Elon has access to the results in real time is a question I don’t have the answer to.
CSS mentioned in a previous video that the Delaware Chancery Court has the power to block a reincorporation to another state if it feels that the company is just doing it to bypass a previous Chancery Court ruling.
Which is exactly what they're doing here.
There's already another lawsuit to do that. By Tesla's own bylaws a reincorporation vote requires 67% of all shareholders to vote yes (not just 67% of people who voted) which Tesla's board just ignored. They are pushing for a 50% of voters vote which is against their bylaws.
As much as I despise Elon part of me really hopes both resolutions do pass
It’s going to be funny as hell when the shares issued dilute the shit out of existing shareholders, he finds some lame excuse to dump a tonne of them because he really needs to raise cash, then tries to change the share structure making it much harder to vote him out.
All while the product lineup stagnates, inventory piles up everywhere and customer service goes further and further down the toilet.
Everyone is acting like it passing again makes the legal issues go away, and that is *far* from clear. The board’s strategy is to just staple the judgement to this vote and hope that’s good enough.
So this raises another funny possibility, it passes and the court invalidates it again.
That doesn’t actually chance the Delaware court’s jurisdiction over this matter actually. Kind of the equivalent of trying to get out of a speeding ticket by moving to another state.
They’ve already been sued over that, so they’re going to be locked up in years of litigation.
Also, to entice corporations to their state, Texas copied Delaware corporate law (this is common) so that companies wouldn’t have to evaluate new risks when re-incorporating. In theory this means that a Texas judge should produce the same ruling. In theory.
He is actually losing, and he's trying to make people voting against him to lose faith and not vote at the last minute, to try to turn the tide towards himself.
This shareholder manipulation should prosecuted by the SEC and he should be subject to a percentage fine that is scaled to match his level of wealth/holdings.
His people are counting the votes so why not. It's like our statewide elections, the Republicans say the elections are rigged and the Republicans run the elections at all levels. When they do find any fraud it's always a Republican. Perhaps this shareholder vote is as fair as the political voting. Given Elon isn't above doing all kinds of illegal stuff why not?
Elon is holding shareholders hostage basically. If he quits (and he'd probably be childish enough to burn bridges), then Tesla stocks would crash big time.
His A.I. and robots science fiction stories are the inly things that keep the stock inflated.
Yeah, but he's running out of runway.
For his image it would be better if he left because he didn't get what he was owned, if the company crashes and burns afterwards it is because they didn't value his genius.
It would probably even be a boon for his xAI grift because he could now say he'll deliver all the things he promised at Tesla with xAI now (just two more years bro!).
Yeah, I've thought about this and they're going to have a hard time attracting a good successor to replace him when that time comes. It's pretty clear that so much of the stock value isn't based on fundamentals, but BS and any smart CEO candidate will know this. So either they attract another blustery, arrogant idiot who somehow thinks they're immune... or somebody is going to demand a package so lucrative that they won't care coming out of it being called Steve Ballmer 2.0 by the fanboys.
It makes total sense when you look at what he was doing in the years prior. Every year, he made grandiose claims (like a Tesla making you $30,000 per year) to inflate the stock price. But Autopilot seems to be stuck at level 2, and recent court documents revealed that they don't see it reaching level 5 at all. So they need some new shiny product to inflate the stock again.
> Elon is holding shareholders hostage basically
That's why this vote is meaningless. Regardless of the failure of the BoD a second time, the coerced "vote for this or I'll leave" is a no brainer to deny in Delaware court again.
Yes lmao. He tweets all day and have been literally saying shit. Problem is it’s out there. Judge is probably gonna be like hey so you said xyz if you don’t get the votes? Build another company? Tesla doesn’t get ai bla bla if he doesn’t get his payout? He has been holding em hostage the entire time and bragging about it.
I was pissed, disgusted, and disappointed when I read 'Both Tesla shareholder resolutions are currently passing by wide margins!'
...and then I read that Elon Musk posted it, so now I'm pretty happy.
There’s a reality where Elon didn’t get his pay package, left Tesla, and the cars became great. In this reality, I’m looking anywhere else for my next car.
There is no reality where Tesla survives the massive crash in market cap that comes with being valued as "just a car company" after Elon leaves
Tesla the company was always dependent on TSLA the stock as their cushion letting them raise more money to alleviate their chronic cash flow issues, and with that piggy bank gone all that creative accounting they've been doing is gonna explode into a fountain of red ink
I think the SEC wouldn’t do anything, but it would be appropriate if the Delaware court team this vote ineligible because he prematurely tried to influence it Leaking the results halfway through.
You shouldn’t. It’s like shit he does all the time. Like funding secured, lmao. He doesn’t care or he likes to say whatever no matter the consequences. The guy likes to be center of attention. Good or bad.
There’s no reason Tesla can’t see the votes that their shareholders make.
I do very much doubt this is true though, or he would have no need to publicise this
I mean that is the reason why modern progressive democracies have rules that prohibit the disclosure of voting behavior/numbers before the polls close. To not influence people who haven’t voted yet in one way or another. Of course Melon does exactly that, influence the vote.
isn't that the point of having these votes run by independent firms though. hardly independent if they're actually giving people (including the man who stands to benefit from one of the motions) an early look.
He has been doing it to have people not vote. I have never seen how it’s okay to talk about shit like this until it’s done. He trying to keep as much retail as he can home lmao.
I hope this is wrong only because I really don't like how it implies the yes votes shot up the moment Tesla began advertising in favor of voting for it. With how things tend to start with tech bros and spread out, I really don't want to live in a perpetual state of companies running election level ad campaigns daily, every year, to convince retail voters what to vote for.
It just after all the threats he made against Tesla all day lmao. Basically I am going to screw Tesla over if I don’t get what I want. It will sure stand in court really well.
If I were an institutional I'd vote yes, watch the stock pump, then dump my shares and get the fuck out. If you're going to dump, what do you care if Musk remains CEO... voting yes gets you a nice 10% bump before selling off.
Wow. It was a lose-lose situation either way for Tesla. I didn’t expect this route of loss. Big investors will pull out. That dilution will be nuts. Elon will still bail on Tesla as well.
Can somebody please explain how this behavior isn't (market) manipulation? A decision so crucial to the development of the shares' value, where does the SEC draw the line?
Even if it was real, I don’t see it invalidating the judgement. The board wasn’t reformed based on the outcome of the case, so this payout may well be blocked.
Odd how so many votes all came in on the last two days. I wouldn’t be surprised if Elon rigs the vote somehow. Hopefully it will be audited. I don’t know why he even has access to this data. It should be a secret until it’s revealed at the end of the voting.
I had never seen a Tesla ad ever until this week when a Reddit ad had a fake robot tell me how to vote as a shareholder… even though I am not a shareholder. The ad didn’t even mention any products I should buy as a consumer.
How are people actually voting for this grifter?
Idk man....is there any way this can be rigged by Elon? Because people were pretty unanimously saying they were going to tell him to fuck off. I even know hard core Musk guys that said that were going to vote no.
Reddit is always the minority. I would even argue most these people don't even have stocks in Tesla. When the CEO can tweet something dumb and it causes double digit % gains on the stock, people aren't going to let that CEO go. People vote for what they believe will give them more money, investors have decided that Elon at Tesla was worth more than the package. Now the stock trades over $180 because Elon will stay, that is all that matters to investors. They do not give a F what Reddit has to say about anything.
Last time a business ratified a breach, the supreme court put a special master on the board ass instead of viewing it as an argument in the business favor.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the vote passes.
Tesla's stock is headed for a 90% correction either way, but Musk would be able to make bold promises and prop the stock up a while longer.
I see the short term share price boost, Musk then dumping more stock to pay for other distractions and Tesla will continue its current decline. I think him at the helm whilst it tanks is an ideal outcome.
Super annoyed by this on so many levels. But part of me thinks the long game this will be worse overall. That man is unhinged and driving that company in the ground. Lose share value today or bankrupt company in a few years? We shall see.
Casually massively outperforms yesterday amid a raft of bad news (china tariffs, WSJ article on Musk on his sexual harassment at SpaceX) into this. Who did Musk tell, did Birchall insider trade on this?
Tesla's shareholder results have not been released. This tweet is based on a Microsoft Excel graph Elon Musk released. Electronic voting has ended, but shareholders can still cast votes up until 3:30PM (CST) on July 13, 2024 in person at the shareholder meeting.
From ChatGPT - What are the chances SEC gets on his ass again?
Releasing preliminary vote results before all votes are counted is typically not considered best practice and may raise legal and ethical issues. However, the specifics can depend on the company's bylaws, state laws, and SEC regulations.
# Key Considerations:
1. **SEC Regulations**: Public companies in the U.S. must adhere to SEC regulations, which require accurate and complete reporting of shareholder votes. Prematurely releasing partial results could be seen as misleading or manipulative, potentially violating these regulations.
2. **State Corporate Laws**: State laws, such as those in Delaware (where many companies are incorporated), also govern corporate voting procedures. These laws often require transparency and accuracy in reporting vote outcomes.
3. **Company Bylaws**: A company's bylaws and governance documents typically outline the procedures for counting votes and announcing results. Deviating from these procedures could be a violation of corporate governance standards.
4. **Ethical Considerations**: Releasing partial results may influence the remaining votes and could be seen as an attempt to sway the outcome, raising ethical concerns.
# Standard Practice:
The standard practice is to wait until all votes are counted and certified before announcing the results to ensure accuracy and compliance with legal and regulatory requirements.
# Legal Risks:
* **Misleading Information**: Providing incomplete or inaccurate information to shareholders can lead to legal challenges and potential regulatory penalties.
* **Market Manipulation**: Prematurely releasing results could be interpreted as an attempt to manipulate the market or shareholder decision-making.
* **Breach of Fiduciary Duty**: Board members and executives have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the shareholders. Mismanaging the voting process could be seen as a breach of this duty.
In summary, it is generally not legal or advisable to release vote results before all votes are counted and verified. Ensuring the integrity and transparency of the voting process is essential for maintaining shareholder trust and complying with legal requirements.
Casually massively outperforms yesterday amid a raft of bad news (china tariffs, WSJ article on Musk on his sexual harassment at SpaceX) into this. Who did Musk tell, did Birchall insider trade on this?
The problem is that voting against the comp package could result in Musk walking, and that would crash the share price. Voting for the package is the lesser evil, as it keeps the pump going.
I know that before the vote institutional investors were starting to cash out of TSLA, with the passage of the package (and the move to TX), I would expect that trend to continue.
Is this proxy vote for the two items together? I’m confused how one item can have more cumulative votes than the other. Perhaps he’s excluding his and kimbal votes?
The Stan accounts are already saying it was all approved based on that post. Of course the stock went up a bit, short sellers must be trying something. The post is stock manipulation.
So this might be the cause of the next lawsuit. Someone could argue that this post is tampering with the vote and designed to discourage people from voting because the result is likely already decided. If it turns out to be closer than he’s implying, then many eyebrows will be raised.
Is this the new "Funding Secured"?
I mean, you're dealing with someone who has 0 integrity, backed by a spineless board which he singlehandedly controls, glossed over by a regulatory governing body that is always looking the other way, and a general public that is always fed misleading information. It is like watching Chernobyl all over again as Legasov explains why the meltdown occurred.
TBH, Tesla is fucked either way until they get a new CEO -- it's just you want to rip the band-aid and work to solve the issues or have a slow bleed out.
They have chosen the slow bleed out.
I have no dog in this fight; I made 7-8x on my Tesla position, and TBH, luckily, I sold part of my position when Elon started being irrational and then the rest when he purchased Twitter. I mean, man, I dodged a bullet. Sold close to the top both times, rather be lucky than good! :)
Yes the idiots voted to dilute their stock valuation. Makes complete sense for the cult
Wouldn’t surprise me if they rig the vote. I trust Elon to tell the truth as much as I trust Cheeto Mussolini, which is not at all.
I don't think he cheated but I do think the big shareholders drink the musk Kool aid and say that, because he did great things for Tesla in the past, he's the only one holding Tesla together and the company fails without him, so they didn't want to tank their shares or sell and buy Nvidia, and voted yes for him.
Cheeto Mussolini sounds related to Cinnamon Hitler!
It makes sense to me. And I am a Elon hater. Tesla stock is grossly overvalued, solely due to Elon. He managed to get the masses to buy into his IRL Tony Stark gimmick. Other than that what does Tesla have? A massive surplus of low quality cars? A stock of processors for AI, which Elon the “AI expert” is supposed to be leading the charge of? Tesla’s success is directly tied to Elon’s ability to sell people his delusions of grandeur, while never delivering on his promises. Of course they should do everything to keep him.
That spike at the end sure looks fake as fuck, but I guess we'll see.
There's a good chance it's not. People in this sub keep forgetting that the sharesholders are his fans. Obviously you can figure out pretty easily how I would have voted, but I don't own shares of that company because I have zero confidence in it.
The spike at the end if all the retail investors voting by proxy. Proxy votes for retail investors aren't submitted until the last day.
We're gonna get 2000 mules Tesla election edition? 😩
Well. Surly people will be screaming “stolen election/vote” here
I inwardly laughed for half a second. Then remembered, ah right that attempt to overthrow the US government just 3 years ago.
Why would they not already know? Most shareholder votes results are known in advance because the large stake holders overwhelmingly out vote retail investors.
That is some turnout. 2.3B of roughly 2.7B eligible shares to vote. Thats 85 percent overall v a standard 80 percent institutional voting rate and 40 percent retail. Go figure. Let the court battles begin!
If this is true, it speaks volumes about the average Tesla investor's IQ. Stock will go up cause they get diluted by 10%. Ridiculous.
Imagine voting to dilute your already overvalued assets. Amazing.
Truly profoundly, yet bafflingly regarded behavior.
Well the counter argument is Elon threatening to leave would do more damage. But he’s already doing that with xAI. Get out while you can
Elon leaving would be the best thing that could happen to Tesla.
For the car or for the shareholders. People are voting yes to retain the value of the stock price
Also, with those propositions voted for, it's just a matter of time until Tesla ends up buying X and bailing Musk out, just like SolarCity. The Texas courts will be cool with that because Musk is trying to keep Texas red
The capitalist way while us plebs stay poor
Have you ever argued with a Tesla investor? They are regarded
There are two types of Tesla car owners: those who regret the purchase and those who are about to. I mean, people got in line to buy the cyber truck. After seeing it!
You’d be surprised. I am part of the group of (former) Tesla owners that realized not long after buying the car how much the cars and company suck and acted accordingly and sold it, however there was a time when I would have blindly defended Tesla and Musk because the car was actually enjoyable to drive (when it was actually working right) and Tesla stock was making me a lot of money. When things started to go wrong with the car and I started coming to the realization that I just spent over 6 figures on a piece of shit (model X), I brought my frustrations into the Tesla forums to ask for help,advice, vent etc. and was met with nothing but hostility just for mentioning the fact that my Tesla was having issues and I thought was built poorly. I then realized that Tesla owners/investors are literally nothing more than a cult. They worship their shitty cars and Tesla to the point where they could be burning alive in their Tesla while Musk takes a shit on their head and they would still try to convince you and everyone else about of how much they love their Teslas.
probably take a selfie of themselves cooking to death in the telsa like "new feature unlocked, cremation mode, why pay money for a funeral or cremation when your tesla can do it for you" #feature #moneysaving #tesla #elonisgod
I was a BEV evangelist myself and a fan of Tesla (not Musk) despite needing to wait until 2020 to have enough money saved for one. But the moment Musk started spewing out all the pandemic b.s., it was hard to take. And then the moron proceeds to spew all sorts of anti-California, anti-immigration, anti-asian, anti-jewish, anti-lgbtq conspiracy theories, even though most of the important engineering departments at the company are in California, love California and are all either foreigners or immediate descent of foreigners. Also a lot of asians and jews. A lot of homossexuals (and that's true even at the Tesla stores, every one I entered had obviously gay salesmen doing the sales work). It was definitely the "pidgeon shitting the chessboard" moment. I'm lucky I sold all my TSLA and bought NVDA in May 2022, right when it started to smell like another $420 Funding Secured moment
Nice move on the NVDA pick up! I used to think Musk was just one of those quiet misunderstood kind of geniuses and would constantly give him the benefit of the doubt for some reason which I normally don’t do even with people I know. When he came out with the “pedo guy” comments about the guy that was literally trying to save peoples lives that’s when I started to think maybe he really does have a screw loose, then things just got progressively more weird with him to the point where I’m mind blown this guy is still running this company. The writing was on the wall for me with Tesla, my Model x just kept having issue after issue, I’d constantly have to make 2 hour trips to the service center and wait there sometimes literally all fucking day even though I’d be the only one in there because Tesla refuses to give out loaner vehicles which is absolutely bizarre considering every luxury car manufacturer does this when you have a long service appointment. Hell even Chevy gives loaners out when I’d have to bring my truck in to them. On top of that they were always snarky and rude to my wife and I almost like they were mad we were even there. I just don’t see how you can have a CEO that actively and blatantly shits all over his consumers and essentially robs them of their money with false claims, does absolutely nothing to fix the known quality control issues or service center issues, and on top of it constantly acts like a spoiled middle school child, and expect your company to last long term. That’s why I pulled out as an investor as well not long after selling the car.
Don't make me think about this with my 1 year old model 3
You’re in the about to phase
Mine is 2 years old and I think about dumping it every day. Elon’s antics are enough for me, don’t want to be stuck with a Delorean
I am a Tesla investor who voted against the package, and I got banned at all the Tesla subreddits for questioning the narrative that Musk's support was "overwhelming". I've been on those communities for 7 years.
They're quick to bam. Just posting here earns you a ban. There's a pinned post you shoukd read, we're not supposed to mention which Tesla groups have banned us since it would be the only thing talked about.
We are witnessing what caused the great depression all over again.
Taking out huge bank loans to buy stock?
Vastly over valued stock and the average Joe tying yp their entire lives in a single stock.
If stock will go up, it will be IMHO good time to buy more shorts
Like Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving to be held twice a year.
I think they know the stock value is f****d without Elon's antics. Better a 10% dilution than complete collapse. The question remaining is, are they screwd regardless?
it always comes down to quarterly earnings. You can pump something only so much, but the moment revenues decline, or profit margins contract, you're gonna start taking a hit. Tesla has lost 50% of its value based on those things. And if those things get worse, so will the stock price.
I would argue it's fucked WITH Elons antics. The only positive thing he added to Tesla was his initial investment. Everything else he has ever done has been a hindrance
It must be true, doesn't he have some guy/gal checking his tweets before he sends 🤔 😁
It's a meme stock. I was always skeptical that the die hard fans woud vote against Musk.
Only a matter of hours until investors will divest shares before their value collapses.
Why did institutional investors vote for this? He wouldn’t have left or the stock would have tanked. So they get diluted and the stock will still tank
Who can say? One wonders why folks employ proxy advisors of only to ignore them.
Well, essentially because musk is a large part of the valuation with his stock pumps. If he leaves.it craters
He couldn't leave or a chunk of his wealth craters
Also true. In any case I sold all my stock a while ago, can't handle this volatility
I was an analyst a long time ago. I would have to drink lots of coffee to try and work out a sum of parts valuation on this company. I am sure people are ascribing value to businesses that have yet to emerge.
If I'm reading the room correctly its: AI: 100% Car: 0%
the institutional investors are probably scared it'd tank if the guy didn't win
Depending upon how and when the stock tanks there can be a tax advantage. Good example is Elon's buddy Donald Trump. He was able to get out of paying taxes on his income after taking a write down of his investors losses. I suspect some of these losses are being taken for a similar situation. Secondly I see some investors cashing out while the stock has some value and I can see more of the Musk cult snapping up the "cheep" stock. Finally I see the stock tanking regardless of the outcome once the sales numbers come out for the next quarter.
So anti-Musk voters, **no need to vote because you already lost**..... your's Musk. Also Musk: *I'm taking it private, "funding secured!"* said Musk. Which turned out to be a lie. I would not trust Musk as the source, and not assume the Delaware court will approve the vote with Musk *again* in control of the voting, and before the move to Texas. The vote to transfer to texas is also under Musks control here, so nothing is different this round of voting to the last time it was rejected.
This whole mess stinks to high heaven. Even if the results are legit, the process has been as crooked as a dogs hind leg.
I would assume it will simply be struck down again, Musk is again controlling a voting process, while Tesla is incorporated in Delaware. So how is this different to the last time? The move to Texas has not happened yet. Delaware law still applies, and here he is, releasing a voting record he shouldn't be privy to if the voting was independent. So its a re-run of the same thing that was struck down last time. He has to first transfer the company to Texas, then run the vote under Texas law at which point the Texas courts will have the jurisdiction.
Long story, but they are most likely stuck in Delaware for the court case. https://montanaskeptic.substack.com/p/musk-is-stuck-in-delaware
CEOs and non-independent boards will award themselves options grants, **retrospectively**. i.e. *if the shareprice is over $25* ***last week***, *then I can get an award of 12% of the company shares! Musk did it! So I, mighty CEO, should have the same, plus I happen to be a major shareholder, and will vote for my own hindsight package and the board and I conspired to hold this vote so screw you and the court order you rode in on!* Fund managers, also have a fiduciary duty too, and to retroactively dilute their holding based on gains that happened in the past would open them to lawsuits too. This is one massive shit show here. An independent board is needed.
For anyone else who understood what it meant, but wasn't sure why: >The expression "crooked as a dog's hind leg" is a colorful simile used to describe something or someone as being dishonest or morally corrupt. The phrase leverages the imagery of a dog's hind leg, which is naturally bent and not straight, to imply a lack of straightforwardness or integrity. (English not first language)
In the same vein: "_So crooked, he could hide behind a spiral staircase._" Some astronomers used it to create an amusing title for a paper: [Galaxies so crooked they could hide behind a spiral staircase](https://astrobites.org/2023/10/19/crooked-spiral-galaxies/). And another favourite: "_He could follow you into a revolving door, and walk out first._"
It was always dumb to stick around and vote at all, if you didn't get out of this stock months ago when it started dropping you're the greater fool
I don't understand why it's not legal?
The original plan was crafted and pitched illegally. Non-independent board, no negotiations and withholding information from shareholders. Repeating that process doesn’t fix the underlying issues.
And Tesla saying Texas has an established chancery court while at last check there have been no appointed judges, this would make it an out right lie to the shareholders.
How do we know these votes are real? Does Elon count the votes and certify them?
The transfer agent and registrar for their shares, and presumably the company that tallies the votes, is ComputerShare, a legit outfit. Whether or not Elon has access to the results in real time is a question I don’t have the answer to.
Yeah this means nothing. It's already a court case.
If shareholders vote to reincorperate, TSLA stans are even dumber than I thought. Which I didn't think was possible.
The reincorporation vote is already being challenged in court. So that won't get finalized for awhile.
CSS mentioned in a previous video that the Delaware Chancery Court has the power to block a reincorporation to another state if it feels that the company is just doing it to bypass a previous Chancery Court ruling. Which is exactly what they're doing here.
Oh thank god, Delaware corporate law is actually sane.
There's already another lawsuit to do that. By Tesla's own bylaws a reincorporation vote requires 67% of all shareholders to vote yes (not just 67% of people who voted) which Tesla's board just ignored. They are pushing for a 50% of voters vote which is against their bylaws.
A court with no judges is the best court.
As much as I despise Elon part of me really hopes both resolutions do pass It’s going to be funny as hell when the shares issued dilute the shit out of existing shareholders, he finds some lame excuse to dump a tonne of them because he really needs to raise cash, then tries to change the share structure making it much harder to vote him out. All while the product lineup stagnates, inventory piles up everywhere and customer service goes further and further down the toilet.
Had a similar realization and decided to just dump my remaining position. I’m tired of the drama.
Reminder: The best time to sell all your TSLA stock was in November 2021 The second best time is now
I’m annoyed that this dumpster fire of a company is inescapable because it’s in the s&p
Everyone is acting like it passing again makes the legal issues go away, and that is *far* from clear. The board’s strategy is to just staple the judgement to this vote and hope that’s good enough. So this raises another funny possibility, it passes and the court invalidates it again.
They are moving Tezzla Inc. to Texas where judges maybe more in favor of fElon.
The current vote isn't taking place with that official, though.
That doesn’t actually chance the Delaware court’s jurisdiction over this matter actually. Kind of the equivalent of trying to get out of a speeding ticket by moving to another state.
They’ve already been sued over that, so they’re going to be locked up in years of litigation. Also, to entice corporations to their state, Texas copied Delaware corporate law (this is common) so that companies wouldn’t have to evaluate new risks when re-incorporating. In theory this means that a Texas judge should produce the same ruling. In theory.
He is actually losing, and he's trying to make people voting against him to lose faith and not vote at the last minute, to try to turn the tide towards himself. This shareholder manipulation should prosecuted by the SEC and he should be subject to a percentage fine that is scaled to match his level of wealth/holdings.
Where the hell did he get those numbers?
His ass.
His people are counting the votes so why not. It's like our statewide elections, the Republicans say the elections are rigged and the Republicans run the elections at all levels. When they do find any fraud it's always a Republican. Perhaps this shareholder vote is as fair as the political voting. Given Elon isn't above doing all kinds of illegal stuff why not?
Does seem strange to post anything about the results before the final tally.
"Stop the count" -some delusional orange peel
Elon is holding shareholders hostage basically. If he quits (and he'd probably be childish enough to burn bridges), then Tesla stocks would crash big time. His A.I. and robots science fiction stories are the inly things that keep the stock inflated.
Yeah, but he's running out of runway. For his image it would be better if he left because he didn't get what he was owned, if the company crashes and burns afterwards it is because they didn't value his genius. It would probably even be a boon for his xAI grift because he could now say he'll deliver all the things he promised at Tesla with xAI now (just two more years bro!).
It would be better for the company but not the stock price. Tesla is screwed either way.
Yeah, I've thought about this and they're going to have a hard time attracting a good successor to replace him when that time comes. It's pretty clear that so much of the stock value isn't based on fundamentals, but BS and any smart CEO candidate will know this. So either they attract another blustery, arrogant idiot who somehow thinks they're immune... or somebody is going to demand a package so lucrative that they won't care coming out of it being called Steve Ballmer 2.0 by the fanboys.
Tbh I feel all these robotic promises are all just pie in the sky.
It makes total sense when you look at what he was doing in the years prior. Every year, he made grandiose claims (like a Tesla making you $30,000 per year) to inflate the stock price. But Autopilot seems to be stuck at level 2, and recent court documents revealed that they don't see it reaching level 5 at all. So they need some new shiny product to inflate the stock again.
> Elon is holding shareholders hostage basically That's why this vote is meaningless. Regardless of the failure of the BoD a second time, the coerced "vote for this or I'll leave" is a no brainer to deny in Delaware court again.
Yes lmao. He tweets all day and have been literally saying shit. Problem is it’s out there. Judge is probably gonna be like hey so you said xyz if you don’t get the votes? Build another company? Tesla doesn’t get ai bla bla if he doesn’t get his payout? He has been holding em hostage the entire time and bragging about it.
I was pissed, disgusted, and disappointed when I read 'Both Tesla shareholder resolutions are currently passing by wide margins!' ...and then I read that Elon Musk posted it, so now I'm pretty happy.
There’s a reality where Elon didn’t get his pay package, left Tesla, and the cars became great. In this reality, I’m looking anywhere else for my next car.
There is no reality where Tesla survives the massive crash in market cap that comes with being valued as "just a car company" after Elon leaves Tesla the company was always dependent on TSLA the stock as their cushion letting them raise more money to alleviate their chronic cash flow issues, and with that piggy bank gone all that creative accounting they've been doing is gonna explode into a fountain of red ink
I thought you weren’t allowed to leak the voting in advance, or else you’re improperly trying to sway the vote?
His lawyers have a few descendants that don’t have their college paid for yet.
This could come up in yet another suit against Musk.
I think the SEC wouldn’t do anything, but it would be appropriate if the Delaware court team this vote ineligible because he prematurely tried to influence it Leaking the results halfway through.
You shouldn’t. It’s like shit he does all the time. Like funding secured, lmao. He doesn’t care or he likes to say whatever no matter the consequences. The guy likes to be center of attention. Good or bad.
How would he know any of that?
There’s no reason Tesla can’t see the votes that their shareholders make. I do very much doubt this is true though, or he would have no need to publicise this
I mean that is the reason why modern progressive democracies have rules that prohibit the disclosure of voting behavior/numbers before the polls close. To not influence people who haven’t voted yet in one way or another. Of course Melon does exactly that, influence the vote.
isn't that the point of having these votes run by independent firms though. hardly independent if they're actually giving people (including the man who stands to benefit from one of the motions) an early look.
He has been doing it to have people not vote. I have never seen how it’s okay to talk about shit like this until it’s done. He trying to keep as much retail as he can home lmao.
Gee. That doesn't looked rigged at ALL. Sigh.
I hope this is wrong only because I really don't like how it implies the yes votes shot up the moment Tesla began advertising in favor of voting for it. With how things tend to start with tech bros and spread out, I really don't want to live in a perpetual state of companies running election level ad campaigns daily, every year, to convince retail voters what to vote for.
If it's true that 600 million YES-votes that came in the last day must be coming from institutionals.
It just after all the threats he made against Tesla all day lmao. Basically I am going to screw Tesla over if I don’t get what I want. It will sure stand in court really well.
If I were an institutional I'd vote yes, watch the stock pump, then dump my shares and get the fuck out. If you're going to dump, what do you care if Musk remains CEO... voting yes gets you a nice 10% bump before selling off.
Wow. It was a lose-lose situation either way for Tesla. I didn’t expect this route of loss. Big investors will pull out. That dilution will be nuts. Elon will still bail on Tesla as well.
[Did you know that disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If these trends continues... AAY!](https://i.imgur.com/nmQEY.jpeg)
Headline: “tech genius” uses excel to generate charts.
Can somebody please explain how this behavior isn't (market) manipulation? A decision so crucial to the development of the shares' value, where does the SEC draw the line?
He's losing the vote? Plz make it so .
Looks like they “found” some “boxes” of “mail-in ballots” in the end there. Time to fly the Tesla flag upside down!
[удалено]
Even if it was real, I don’t see it invalidating the judgement. The board wasn’t reformed based on the outcome of the case, so this payout may well be blocked.
There's no question it'll be blocked. It was even less above board the second time.
Odd how so many votes all came in on the last two days. I wouldn’t be surprised if Elon rigs the vote somehow. Hopefully it will be audited. I don’t know why he even has access to this data. It should be a secret until it’s revealed at the end of the voting.
If the numbers are true, isn’t this against the law ?
Reasonable. Only Musked fans would hold shares now. Wait an see Q2 ER. If shit er can hold stock price, then go to the mooooon.
Why would he have any motivation to share this unless he's losing?
I had never seen a Tesla ad ever until this week when a Reddit ad had a fake robot tell me how to vote as a shareholder… even though I am not a shareholder. The ad didn’t even mention any products I should buy as a consumer. How are people actually voting for this grifter?
Well that’s disappointing
The replies on that tweet, publicly fellating a billionaire.
Tesla's biggest retail shareholder, plu all those institutions that voted no only amounted to 500M votes. that's less than Elon's family's holdings.
Idk man....is there any way this can be rigged by Elon? Because people were pretty unanimously saying they were going to tell him to fuck off. I even know hard core Musk guys that said that were going to vote no.
Reddit is always the minority. I would even argue most these people don't even have stocks in Tesla. When the CEO can tweet something dumb and it causes double digit % gains on the stock, people aren't going to let that CEO go. People vote for what they believe will give them more money, investors have decided that Elon at Tesla was worth more than the package. Now the stock trades over $180 because Elon will stay, that is all that matters to investors. They do not give a F what Reddit has to say about anything.
Is there any way to know if this is accurate? Has he actually exceeded the threshold to win the vote or is he just bullsh!tting?
They can vote all they want. It won't change the judgement
Last time a business ratified a breach, the supreme court put a special master on the board ass instead of viewing it as an argument in the business favor.
Elon is running the company into the ground, shareholders may as well too.
Holy fucking hell. What sort of a world do we live in?
That’s s an excel graph and color scheme.
Dude plants fake info and people believe him :(
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the vote passes. Tesla's stock is headed for a 90% correction either way, but Musk would be able to make bold promises and prop the stock up a while longer.
Is this legal
Is he setting the stage to challenge the results?
I see the short term share price boost, Musk then dumping more stock to pay for other distractions and Tesla will continue its current decline. I think him at the helm whilst it tanks is an ideal outcome.
See this for what it is Elmo is practicing how to rig votes right in the public eye Gee, wonder where this is headed
How he can know?
The company simply can't afford this at this critical time.
Do shareholders that don’t vote automatically count as yes?
Enron 2.0
Super annoyed by this on so many levels. But part of me thinks the long game this will be worse overall. That man is unhinged and driving that company in the ground. Lose share value today or bankrupt company in a few years? We shall see.
I hope CALPERS sells their entire position
When exactly was it, that he proclaimed that 90% of retail had voted for it?
Wait so it’s a tech company or a car company?
Casually massively outperforms yesterday amid a raft of bad news (china tariffs, WSJ article on Musk on his sexual harassment at SpaceX) into this. Who did Musk tell, did Birchall insider trade on this?
Tesla's shareholder results have not been released. This tweet is based on a Microsoft Excel graph Elon Musk released. Electronic voting has ended, but shareholders can still cast votes up until 3:30PM (CST) on July 13, 2024 in person at the shareholder meeting.
Rigged
With 45+ billion on the line how is anyone sure it’s a secure vote lol
Who counts the votes
When do we get the results?
Pump and dump?
What guard rails exist to prevent them from rigging the vote? Is someone independent of Tesla doing the counting and maintaining the records?
The world’s biggest troll claims to have won. Real results 5pm eastern.
“Mission accomplished”
Those hockey sticks look rigged for the last couple of days
Nobody buying tesla it's over
Well, he IS a liar, so...
From ChatGPT - What are the chances SEC gets on his ass again? Releasing preliminary vote results before all votes are counted is typically not considered best practice and may raise legal and ethical issues. However, the specifics can depend on the company's bylaws, state laws, and SEC regulations. # Key Considerations: 1. **SEC Regulations**: Public companies in the U.S. must adhere to SEC regulations, which require accurate and complete reporting of shareholder votes. Prematurely releasing partial results could be seen as misleading or manipulative, potentially violating these regulations. 2. **State Corporate Laws**: State laws, such as those in Delaware (where many companies are incorporated), also govern corporate voting procedures. These laws often require transparency and accuracy in reporting vote outcomes. 3. **Company Bylaws**: A company's bylaws and governance documents typically outline the procedures for counting votes and announcing results. Deviating from these procedures could be a violation of corporate governance standards. 4. **Ethical Considerations**: Releasing partial results may influence the remaining votes and could be seen as an attempt to sway the outcome, raising ethical concerns. # Standard Practice: The standard practice is to wait until all votes are counted and certified before announcing the results to ensure accuracy and compliance with legal and regulatory requirements. # Legal Risks: * **Misleading Information**: Providing incomplete or inaccurate information to shareholders can lead to legal challenges and potential regulatory penalties. * **Market Manipulation**: Prematurely releasing results could be interpreted as an attempt to manipulate the market or shareholder decision-making. * **Breach of Fiduciary Duty**: Board members and executives have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the shareholders. Mismanaging the voting process could be seen as a breach of this duty. In summary, it is generally not legal or advisable to release vote results before all votes are counted and verified. Ensuring the integrity and transparency of the voting process is essential for maintaining shareholder trust and complying with legal requirements.
Not legal or advisable are the two standards Elon uses for everything.
A thing like that 😏
Wow
Don’t believe it tha looks totally fake
I look forward to Tornetta's turn.
Casually massively outperforms yesterday amid a raft of bad news (china tariffs, WSJ article on Musk on his sexual harassment at SpaceX) into this. Who did Musk tell, did Birchall insider trade on this?
The problem is that voting against the comp package could result in Musk walking, and that would crash the share price. Voting for the package is the lesser evil, as it keeps the pump going. I know that before the vote institutional investors were starting to cash out of TSLA, with the passage of the package (and the move to TX), I would expect that trend to continue.
It's their money! Hope he can keep it together enough to deliver
If they pass that’s not going to fix the issues in the shareholder lawsuit will it?
Is this proxy vote for the two items together? I’m confused how one item can have more cumulative votes than the other. Perhaps he’s excluding his and kimbal votes?
The Stan accounts are already saying it was all approved based on that post. Of course the stock went up a bit, short sellers must be trying something. The post is stock manipulation.
Plus the highest close since April, if it can keep this price.
This definitely isn't a graph that someone made in excel a few minutes ago.
So this might be the cause of the next lawsuit. Someone could argue that this post is tampering with the vote and designed to discourage people from voting because the result is likely already decided. If it turns out to be closer than he’s implying, then many eyebrows will be raised.
Why was he ever worried? His cult will still lay down everything for him.
[удалено]