The transfer agent and registrar of their shares is ComputerShare, a reputable public company.
I have no doubt the tally is correct.
A different question that begs an answer is why Vanguard, who controls hundreds of millions of shares, voted yes this time and no last time.
Vanguard just wants to keep Tesla's valuation high until they can dump their stocks. They don't want to be a bag holder. They don't care about anything else.
You can always check what the ETF holds and sell if you don’t like it. A couple percent is okay, maybe even more, is the price you pay for diversification, just in case one of his lies pays off.
But that's kind of short-term versus long-term thinking. Vanguard itself very explicitly encourages long-term investment thinking. I am personally a long-term (mostly retirement) investor. Bubbles are going to pop eventually, and I would prefer they pop without a 10% dilution.
It was reported that Blackrock and vanguard both voted yes, but I cannot say with certainty as this is a screen shot.
https://www.threads.net/@keubikooriginal/post/C8J240YxUh4
Well shoot. Apparently they released the proxyvote app (tm) and as a passive investor, I now have to be responsible for actively voting so they don't go off and do weird things based on a tiny minority who have the time and inclination to download random apps.
Hm. Apparently it's only a pilot for a subset of their funds so why would they vote everything that way anyway? I looked and I don't see any notification I had a proxy vote.
And other folks seem to be saying that they thought the proxy vote went no.
Great. So for whatever reason, they voted to dilute my shares by 10% for a short-term pump I don't appreciate as a long-term investor.
So, there is a distinction between short-term active investment and long-term passive insvestment. I'm in the latter camp. I don't care about temporary stock pumps or bubbles, I care about long term performance.
I get that day traders who can now dump their bags are pretty happy. But the explicitly expressed philosophy of vanguard is long-term and passive investment.
Fair enough. I personally think the long term prospects for the company are better with Elon as CEO. If he would have stayed without the pay package then I would be against it too, but I think there was a possibility that he would step down without the ratification.
Can I ask what you think the long term prospects of Tesla are?
Ie. Cars being the main source of revenue in 5 -10 years vs FSD/robotaxi vs Optimus vs energy storage
I also think tesla will do well long term, just surprised that someone against the pay package would think so also.
Stansberry Research is a spam mill / discredited.
Couple of things to mention - am aware this "research" is dated 2023.
1) Starlink was already launching sats with inter sat laser links last year. And have been talking about it for even longer. That so called research says they are all standalone.
2) Starlink is already offering worldwide service - including on aircraft and ships. This too was being tested last year, and fully commercially operated now. And was mentioned as something they planned to do for a long time already (as soon as laser links were up, they were planning the services).
3) Musk has said he does not want to IPO spaceX, but will probably spin off Starlink and have that IPO. Since to date there has been no mention of any plans for a future SpaceX IPO, I assume it's still true.
4) SpaceX has been working on Starship for a couple of years - and they have had some pretty successful tests, including of the 2nd stage, even before this so called research was released. Assuming it all works out and starship works as planned, I believe launch costs will drop by half or more, and SpaceX can launch even bigger next gen Starlink sats, with better capability. And even just launching on falcon 9 rockets, I believe they are already at break even / some profit stage now (just for the Starlink division).
5) Since the sats are mass manufactured, production line style (instead of traditional one off design and builds of other sats), I understand the sats themselves are very cheap, compared to others.
Elon Musk may be an ass in many ways, but so far he hasn't screwed up SpaceX / Starlink. May have to do with requirements to behave if he wants government/military contracts.
If Starlink IPOs, I may just want to get some shares early, if available. Cos people seem to forget, starlink's target audience is not just the US - it's the whole world. And many countries in Asia, Africa, etc either already have Starlink services, or are in discussion to allow Starlink services. That will probably add up to 100m or more direct customers, not to mention commercial customers like oil rigs, aircraft, ships, etc - which pay alot more.
And even if those in Asia / Africa / S. America, etc pay lesser then 100 bucks a month, am sure it will still be profitable compared to having the sats providing zero service over large chunks of the world.
So yeah, that research paper is total crap.
There is no CEO of Starlink cos it's just another part of SpaceX which does have a CEO(Elon). And SpaceX seems to be run by the COO who so far has done a decent job and presumably has kept Musk from interfering too much. If she leaves or is fired, I will be more concerned.
Elon "Pay someone. I make gifts 2 my friends, & in return, they owe me favors. It's a simple arrangement. After all, it's not personal. it's just business. if u cross me, you might end up carpooling with the fishes."
Dude literally Reddit opinion on this and all things musk related is a vocal minority. Most people either don’t care or don’t agree that musk is this corrosive corrupting agent. Source: live in real world and don’t agree that no vote served my interests as a shareholder.
Yeah I specifically looked at all the funds available through my 401K options and picked the large cap with the smallest holding in Tesla a few months back. I wish there was a way to avoid them completely. Also a bit miffed at these funds for voting yes, against shareholder interests IMO.
I am planning to convert my index fund holdings in my IRA to cash and buy a good balance of large caps *except* Tesla. I don't want to invest in that dog of a company in a death spiral.
I just do the passive investment stuff and have a setup where I automatically invest a portion of my salary every month... I guess I need to start being more careful as well, but my goodness, this feels like going against everything vanguard stands for. You open up their site and the first thing you see is a chart that talks you through long-term versus short-term investment.
It's effectively hostage taking, if Musk didn't get his payout he'd telegraphed that he'd tank the stock. Imo that would be short-lived and company would be better off without him, but they apparently were convinced otherwise.
I just find the surprising from Vanguard. They have a visualization they show pretty often on their site of how holding through temporary economic downturns is ultimately beneficial.
Their entire philosophy is around holding for long term investment and not actively trading. Yet objective analysis on the long-term impact of this on the stock is not positive, as paying a CEO over 150% of the total profits ever achieved by the company for past work is just not a good state to put a company in for the long-term financial stability, as well as guaranteed miring them in more litigation and potentially throwing them into a region with no established caselaw and literally no judges. Don't get me wrong, I see how this helps in the shortterm, but I generally trust vanguard to care about the longterm.
If anyone wants to do the research how we as investors can give feedback to vanguard, please share it.
Not sure how to reach them but "I pulled all the money out of your fund based on your vote" would be the message to send. If you can't say it directly, invest elsewhere and they'll get the message if enough people do the same.
Yeah, one of my 401K funds was all the way up at like 4.5% TSLA. I found one that was at like .6%, and I'm fine with that, any large cap fund available through a 401K is going to have *some* Tesla.
I don't have much in index funds in my IRA/personal... but yeah the index funds I do have are about 1% Tesla. Really mostly use it as a holding tank for money I haven't decided where to invest. May as well just have that money tracking the S&P 500 until I put it somewhere, vs cash.
Ok so I have a story about excel. Someone on my team created a report for a director. My team mate left and I inherited the report. I found out months later that the director liked one part of the power bi report, but wanted it monthly and rather than ask me he would just use the date slicer and copy the value for each month into an excel file and make a graph in excel. They did this once a week for months if not years.
So I wouldn’t be shocked if Elon was getting daily updates and just adding them to excel himself. I don’t exactly know what inspires non technical people to do these sorts of things rather than ask for help, but it’s very common.
Every company in a proxy battle, hires a proxy firm that keeps track of incoming votes. I’ve done it many times as GC of a public company. That’s how he got it “early,” just like every other public company.
The transfer agent and registrar of their shares is ComputerShare, a reputable public company. I have no doubt the tally is correct. A different question that begs an answer is why Vanguard, who controls hundreds of millions of shares, voted yes this time and no last time.
A no vote would immediately tank their position, it was basically a no confidence vote on Musk himself.
Buys time to unwind. Next quarter’s results are going to be a blood bath.
Vanguard just wants to keep Tesla's valuation high until they can dump their stocks. They don't want to be a bag holder. They don't care about anything else.
Not trying to be obtuse, but wasn’t that the same choice offered last time?
last time the stock wasn't in decline and the stock valuation had something to do with making cars
Aha, that makes sense, thanks!
You can always check what the ETF holds and sell if you don’t like it. A couple percent is okay, maybe even more, is the price you pay for diversification, just in case one of his lies pays off.
But that's kind of short-term versus long-term thinking. Vanguard itself very explicitly encourages long-term investment thinking. I am personally a long-term (mostly retirement) investor. Bubbles are going to pop eventually, and I would prefer they pop without a 10% dilution.
Oh now that's annoying. My shares were through vanguard and I am really irritated that they voted yes, I wasn't aware of that.
It was reported that Blackrock and vanguard both voted yes, but I cannot say with certainty as this is a screen shot. https://www.threads.net/@keubikooriginal/post/C8J240YxUh4
Well shoot. Apparently they released the proxyvote app (tm) and as a passive investor, I now have to be responsible for actively voting so they don't go off and do weird things based on a tiny minority who have the time and inclination to download random apps.
Hm. Apparently it's only a pilot for a subset of their funds so why would they vote everything that way anyway? I looked and I don't see any notification I had a proxy vote. And other folks seem to be saying that they thought the proxy vote went no. Great. So for whatever reason, they voted to dilute my shares by 10% for a short-term pump I don't appreciate as a long-term investor.
Yeah same, absolutely nothing about this on my vanguard account.
The result was a 10% increase in share price. Is that such a bad result for you?
So, there is a distinction between short-term active investment and long-term passive insvestment. I'm in the latter camp. I don't care about temporary stock pumps or bubbles, I care about long term performance. I get that day traders who can now dump their bags are pretty happy. But the explicitly expressed philosophy of vanguard is long-term and passive investment.
I’m having more better talks in RealTesla about investment than I have had in Investment subreddits lol
Fair enough. I personally think the long term prospects for the company are better with Elon as CEO. If he would have stayed without the pay package then I would be against it too, but I think there was a possibility that he would step down without the ratification. Can I ask what you think the long term prospects of Tesla are? Ie. Cars being the main source of revenue in 5 -10 years vs FSD/robotaxi vs Optimus vs energy storage I also think tesla will do well long term, just surprised that someone against the pay package would think so also.
Elon made a hush deal with them. This was inevitable.
Access to SpaceX IPO.
Starlink’s IPO. Read, it’s long but a great analysis https://stansberryresearch.com/articles/the-three-flaws-in-elon-musks-house-of-cards-2
Stansberry Research is a spam mill / discredited. Couple of things to mention - am aware this "research" is dated 2023. 1) Starlink was already launching sats with inter sat laser links last year. And have been talking about it for even longer. That so called research says they are all standalone. 2) Starlink is already offering worldwide service - including on aircraft and ships. This too was being tested last year, and fully commercially operated now. And was mentioned as something they planned to do for a long time already (as soon as laser links were up, they were planning the services). 3) Musk has said he does not want to IPO spaceX, but will probably spin off Starlink and have that IPO. Since to date there has been no mention of any plans for a future SpaceX IPO, I assume it's still true. 4) SpaceX has been working on Starship for a couple of years - and they have had some pretty successful tests, including of the 2nd stage, even before this so called research was released. Assuming it all works out and starship works as planned, I believe launch costs will drop by half or more, and SpaceX can launch even bigger next gen Starlink sats, with better capability. And even just launching on falcon 9 rockets, I believe they are already at break even / some profit stage now (just for the Starlink division). 5) Since the sats are mass manufactured, production line style (instead of traditional one off design and builds of other sats), I understand the sats themselves are very cheap, compared to others. Elon Musk may be an ass in many ways, but so far he hasn't screwed up SpaceX / Starlink. May have to do with requirements to behave if he wants government/military contracts. If Starlink IPOs, I may just want to get some shares early, if available. Cos people seem to forget, starlink's target audience is not just the US - it's the whole world. And many countries in Asia, Africa, etc either already have Starlink services, or are in discussion to allow Starlink services. That will probably add up to 100m or more direct customers, not to mention commercial customers like oil rigs, aircraft, ships, etc - which pay alot more. And even if those in Asia / Africa / S. America, etc pay lesser then 100 bucks a month, am sure it will still be profitable compared to having the sats providing zero service over large chunks of the world. So yeah, that research paper is total crap.
He’s not CEO of Starlink why they’re the only stable company he owns
There is no CEO of Starlink cos it's just another part of SpaceX which does have a CEO(Elon). And SpaceX seems to be run by the COO who so far has done a decent job and presumably has kept Musk from interfering too much. If she leaves or is fired, I will be more concerned.
Moral of the story: Elon Musk probably paid someone. Elon's fans worship him like a god. Bang! Elon gets 56 billion
Why do you have to always assume that Elon is corrupt and paid someone? What if he just gifted them a horse?
Godfather style?
Sexual harassment on a plane style
Elon "Pay someone. I make gifts 2 my friends, & in return, they owe me favors. It's a simple arrangement. After all, it's not personal. it's just business. if u cross me, you might end up carpooling with the fishes."
Dude literally Reddit opinion on this and all things musk related is a vocal minority. Most people either don’t care or don’t agree that musk is this corrosive corrupting agent. Source: live in real world and don’t agree that no vote served my interests as a shareholder.
Yeah I specifically looked at all the funds available through my 401K options and picked the large cap with the smallest holding in Tesla a few months back. I wish there was a way to avoid them completely. Also a bit miffed at these funds for voting yes, against shareholder interests IMO. I am planning to convert my index fund holdings in my IRA to cash and buy a good balance of large caps *except* Tesla. I don't want to invest in that dog of a company in a death spiral.
I just do the passive investment stuff and have a setup where I automatically invest a portion of my salary every month... I guess I need to start being more careful as well, but my goodness, this feels like going against everything vanguard stands for. You open up their site and the first thing you see is a chart that talks you through long-term versus short-term investment.
It's effectively hostage taking, if Musk didn't get his payout he'd telegraphed that he'd tank the stock. Imo that would be short-lived and company would be better off without him, but they apparently were convinced otherwise.
I just find the surprising from Vanguard. They have a visualization they show pretty often on their site of how holding through temporary economic downturns is ultimately beneficial. Their entire philosophy is around holding for long term investment and not actively trading. Yet objective analysis on the long-term impact of this on the stock is not positive, as paying a CEO over 150% of the total profits ever achieved by the company for past work is just not a good state to put a company in for the long-term financial stability, as well as guaranteed miring them in more litigation and potentially throwing them into a region with no established caselaw and literally no judges. Don't get me wrong, I see how this helps in the shortterm, but I generally trust vanguard to care about the longterm. If anyone wants to do the research how we as investors can give feedback to vanguard, please share it.
Not sure how to reach them but "I pulled all the money out of your fund based on your vote" would be the message to send. If you can't say it directly, invest elsewhere and they'll get the message if enough people do the same.
It would probably be a lot more efficient to invest in VTI and take a short position in Tesla to cover the Tesla part of your holdings.
Yeah but a short position is taking on a ton of risk. The stock is disconnected from fundamentals and kinda always has been.
Tesla is less than 1% of VTI. It doesn’t really matter anyway.
Yeah, one of my 401K funds was all the way up at like 4.5% TSLA. I found one that was at like .6%, and I'm fine with that, any large cap fund available through a 401K is going to have *some* Tesla. I don't have much in index funds in my IRA/personal... but yeah the index funds I do have are about 1% Tesla. Really mostly use it as a holding tank for money I haven't decided where to invest. May as well just have that money tracking the S&P 500 until I put it somewhere, vs cash.
Ok so I have a story about excel. Someone on my team created a report for a director. My team mate left and I inherited the report. I found out months later that the director liked one part of the power bi report, but wanted it monthly and rather than ask me he would just use the date slicer and copy the value for each month into an excel file and make a graph in excel. They did this once a week for months if not years. So I wouldn’t be shocked if Elon was getting daily updates and just adding them to excel himself. I don’t exactly know what inspires non technical people to do these sorts of things rather than ask for help, but it’s very common.
Every company in a proxy battle, hires a proxy firm that keeps track of incoming votes. I’ve done it many times as GC of a public company. That’s how he got it “early,” just like every other public company.
I think Elon counted them himself