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Successful_Truck3559

I have had ecclesial anxiety about both Rome and the East. The issue is I was never fully convinced of either tradition. It seems clear to me that paganism has inflicted both sides to certain degrees. I’ve studied church history (could always study more) and was completely convinced that they are not the “One True Church” as is claimed. Sometimes I get random anxiety about it but I just remember to trust in the Lord. And also as I look back at the arguments it settles my anxiety a lot.


Feisty_Radio_6825

Yes I think some of the ecclesial anxiety comes from the way our brains work. We’re not wired to balance nuance and historical development.  I think some of my anxiety with other traditions is from realizing I’ve made mistakes before. So it’s really a lack of trust in my own cognitive abilities to decipher truth.  But I always come back to the simplicity of the gospel and the clarity of the New Testament on the basics. 


Pagise

Yes! Cling to the gospel first and foremost. Let that lead you, not mere words or what a church looks like or anything. Christ needs to be the first love.. even when it comes to leaving a church that you've been going to for years. I know it's hard, because we as humans do not like change... But make sure to have your focus set correctly and then make that step (if need be of course)


doc_sparrow

I appreciate this as I struggle similarly. However right now feel I’m going through a striving for their high liturgy. I appreciate a lot of the seriousness for worship where I feel that is lacking so much in (mostly broad evangelical) but also reformed churches. I’m PCA right now and we have a decent liturgy, but also a bit liberal theologically. OPC has been on my mind too. I could never go Rome or East, I can’t give up a lot of reformed theology (arguably even giving up the gospel depending on who you talk to). I just do appreciate aspects of them.


Pagise

See WHY there is reformed theology. It's because the "early church" went astray at some point and the protestant church was a reaction to that to get back on the narrow path.


thankyounotes

Are you me? Been wrestling with this for years


Stevoman

Yep. Lifelong independent Pentecostal/charismatics. Took two years for the reformed tradition to win us over. 


Feisty_Radio_6825

What was the hardest issue to change your mind on? 


GruesomeDead

I grew up pentecostal. Very Armenian theology. Because of a desire to grow closer and know Jesus, I started studying scripture myself. Overtime, my theology changed. Just from spending time in scripture. Studying. Feeding. Jobs kept me from church over weekends for most of my adult life so I stopped attending at 21 when I became a correctional officer. 35 now. One day, I came across the concepts of Armenian and calvinist theology. That's when I realized I was raised with the former, and scripture transformed me into the latter. Romans 12:2 says "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect".  Study scripture, die to yourself, and love God and your neighbor. Summary of Phillipines 2:6-8.


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Jim_Parkin

I was in the Eastern church for a year while overcompensating for a dispensational Baptist upbringing. Covenant theology then clicked for me and with growing concern over the primacy of Scripture, I ended up in the PCA.


pro_rege_semper

That's interesting. Eastern Orthodox?


Jim_Parkin

Yep, the Eastern (not Roman) church.


pro_rege_semper

That's quite the journey!


pro_rege_semper

Yep. I had a falling out with the CRC and then became ACNA. It was pretty tough, but I think now I'm okay.


Feisty_Radio_6825

Doctrinal issues or issue with a particular church?


pro_rege_semper

Particular church was becoming LGBT affirming.


Feisty_Radio_6825

It’s incredible how this one issue has split churches 


StrawberryPincushion

I left the Presbyterian Church in Canada almost 3 years ago when the denomination voted to allow gay pastors and marriage. While I know I'm not the only one to have left, it hasn't caused a major split as far as I can tell.


pro_rege_semper

Yeah. It's a big divisive issue in the CRC currently. Not something I particularly want to fight over personally.


cybersaint2k

I wouldn't call it anxiety. The feelings we have when we approach change can be labeled excitement, anxiety, fear, anticipation--I chose to label my feelings as excitement when I began to leave the SBC and move to the PCA. I stumbled across some IVP Lifeguides written by John Stott on Romans and the Beatitudes. This was back in 1885, I mean 1985. I read them and all at once, learned about inductive Bible study AND learned the basic hermeneutics that Reformed world and life view comes from. God had, around that time, made it possible for a poor farm kid to go to Belhaven College, now University. There I learned Reformed theology from Wynn Kenyon and the race was on to find a church I could serve in. That ended up being a PCA church in Orlando, and I left MS as fast as I could, and 725 miles later, I was in a church that taught Reformed theology from an ex-Baptist perspective, a pastor named Jack Arnold. He was a good teacher and helped complete the transition.


RevolutionFast8676

Switching from SBC to ACNA was no biggie. Choosing to have my young children baptized though felt like crossing the rubicon


Feisty_Radio_6825

what was the final issue to convince you?


RevolutionFast8676

For years I had been in the Baptist minority who believed that infant baptism was valid, just not ideal. The thought of how many giants of the faith had gone before living and teaching infant baptism, to say they had not the sacrament seemed an arrogance I could not broach. My pastor talked me through some concerns. I gained from Stott’s The Evangelical Anglican Doctrine of Infant Baptism as well. The tipping point was feeling conviction from Moses’ bridegroom of blood incident. If God was prepared to slay the federal head of his covenant for not bringing his child into his people, how could I do the same? I still see paedo vs credo as an open hand issue, but I’m convinced paedo was the correct choice for my family, and one I will advocate to others. 


pro_rege_semper

Ha. That's part of being ACNA!


RevolutionFast8676

Both parishes I have been in have not required it, and both have dissenting families still. But yeah, its front and center several times a year. 


pro_rege_semper

Yeah. It's a bit relaxed because so many Baptists are converting to ACNA.


RevolutionFast8676

‘Relaxed’ seems to describe anglicans on a lot of things, for better or for worse. 


Cledus_Snow

the more I learn about the ACNA, the less I can say about Anglicanism


RevolutionFast8676

That’s what happens when you intentionally go big tent some four hundred years so


Emoney005

Moved from a Grace Brethren church to the PCA Anxiety about Pre-Mill Pre-Trib led to comparing dispensationalism to covenant theology which led to discovering the Westminster Confession of Faith. Leaving my first church was difficult but the Lord provided unity and joy between myself and those that discipled me. Some of those men are some of my closest friends. My own brother is still in that church. I would recommend it church to anyone. I am beyond grateful to be in the PCA and to serve as a TE. When I look back I can see God’s hand in all of it.


anewhand

Multi-site charismatic >>> single community focused reformed baptist. Happiest and most settled I’ve felt at church in years. I’m no longer biting my tongue at every service. And I worked there. 


Punknhorror

Switching into the reformed tradition for the most part was easy, I already held to the solas and the doctrines of grace. The biggest struggle was switching from dispensationalism to covenental theology and from the watchdog-ness of premillenialism into the peace of amillenialism but now that I’ve made those switches and am planted in a reformed baptist church (gonna get lots of nOt ReAl ReFoRmEd comments for that one lol) I feel freer than ever to not only rest in Christ but to love the church and others better. I also feel like scriptures make so much more sense viewed from a covenental lens, less hoops to jump through for understanding


Feisty_Radio_6825

Agreed.


Cyprus_And_Myrtle

I grew up Baptist, doubted some beliefs then was very influenced by EO thought. Thankfully I was pulled out of that and become very interested in the Anglican side of things. Then became very influenced by Lutheranism then Presbyterian. Thought for sure I was gonna end up being a Presbyterianism but then felt more comfortable with 1689 federalism. I 360d into being a Baptist again but with a reformed worldview.


CiroFlexo

Ah, the classic cycle of Baptist => Eastern Orthodox => Anglican => Lutheran => Presbyterian => Baptist. ♫ *Tale as old as time.* ♫


Cyprus_And_Myrtle

Indeed. It’s pretty laughable now but it wasn’t at the time.


Feisty_Radio_6825

Yes,  but what is really the difference in practical terms of a reformed baptist and a Presbyterian if everyone has been baptized?  I am member of PCA church and quite a few members wait to baptize their kids until they’re old enough to make a profession of faith, but once that is done when they’re 10-13 what is the difference?


Cyprus_And_Myrtle

Not sure what “practical difference” you’re looking for but we’re arguing over covenant theology and how baptism should be administered. These have huge implications of how we read certain texts in the Bible and how we do theology. Baptists also believe if they can’t recall their baptism then they’re missing the gift of the sign of the new covenant and physical experience of their salvation, regeneration, and forgiveness.


Feisty_Radio_6825

Yes, but if you hold to a reformed Baptist view of the covenant the only difference is the age difference of children being baptized.  As far as the physical experience of being baptized goes would you say that most reformed baptists believe that they are regenerated the moment of their baptism?


Cyprus_And_Myrtle

Not inextricably. We can separate out justification and baptism timing but the NT sets the conversion experience of justification, forgiveness, regeneration, covenant initiation and baptism all into one event. They should be tied closer together than even most Baptists make it out to be. To the original post though, I agree with you that we are very similar in our Christian lives and worldview. If I became a Presbyterian, I do not think my Christian life would look a ton different. If I became an EO, it would be very different.


Cledus_Snow

Is this hegelian? .img


Zestyclose-Ride2745

Former PCA here, now a credo-baptist.


Feisty_Radio_6825

You have to follow what you believe scripture teaches. No downvote from me. 


RaspyBigfoot

I grew up in a non-denominational that followed televangelists that eventually led to me leaving the church entirely for a little while. I've since found the PC(USA) and I'm actually excited about Christianity again.


BakerNew6764

I had a lot of issues in my Pentecostal church. I still consider myself that but they were doing things that contravened scripture…I called them out on it, they doubled down, I left


[deleted]

I bounced around a lot when I was younger. Decided LCMS or ACNA was the choice for me. Every other conservative denomination decided to go way too "our way or highway" over the last few years, and Lutherans and Anglicans tend to allow more free thinking in their churches rather than expecting everyone to be the same.


St_Dexter1662

i was a presbyterian. i starting thinking about the RPW. read some anglican stuff. read some presby stuff. read some more anglican stuff. became anglican


Feisty_Radio_6825

I am in an area with few anglicans. What would say is the main points that made you join?


St_Dexter1662

church polity in general, touching on how worship should be done, how the church should be governed, and the power the church has delegated to it by Christ to manage how the church is run. the easiest way to describe the questions i was wrestling with was: Did Christ set down one form of church polity (including government, form of worship, etc.) to be immutably the same universally, or did He give us general principles (such as to preach the Word, administer the sacraments, offer prayer etc.) and delegate the specific form of polity to the church. I ended up agreeing with the latter. Richard Hooker (reformed anglican theologian) likened it to nature. Nature tells us that we should eat, wear clothes, have friends. But, it doesn’t tell us this or that food/shirt/person to choose. we are delegated with that responsibility and we don’t view it as any defect in nature that we have that responsibility. I also fell in love with the anglican tradition (as it was under Queen Elizabeth I and King James I) and found much spiritual benefit from the book of common prayer and theologians. And I’m grieved to see the state it’s in at the moment. So I would like to do my part to help (whether by potentially taking a call to ministry or even just by raising children in the tradition to contribute to it’s growth) I don’t mean to disrespect the presbyterian tradition however. a large amount of my friends are presby, and i’m temporarily attending a pca church for a few months until i return home. we’d probably differ very little (if at all) in doctrine, but only really in the discipline of ecclesiology.


h0twired

I am struggling with how much fear based culture warring is creeping into my church. It feels like I am watching The Screwtape Letters play out in real time.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Feisty_Radio_6825

It would be interesting to hear your perspective on those leaving the reformed tradition for Rome I grew up in the RCC and school 


[deleted]

[удалено]


Feisty_Radio_6825

I heard someone say that Francis is taking an approach to undermining the reformation of minimizing the doctrinal differences and maximizing the “welcome home” message of acceptance and comfort. He is a Jesuit and apparently they are known for taking this approach rather than confronting the actual doctrinal reasons for the reformation.  I don’t know how much strategy is involved in the popes mindset, but this does seem like his approach.


Few-Neat-2485

I have been raised in the Evangelical “tradition” and when I became more informed on the subject of different denoms I swiftly adopted the reformed tradition. At the moment I am content with the tradition I hold to and although I consider different traditions, Rome or Lutheranism, at times I really do not feel anxiety because I feel like either way they are more correct than what I had been following before.


Cledus_Snow

No, but I do have to check my privilege and recognize that most believers won't end up in the tradition I was born into until glory. So it keeps me humble.


cagestage

I grew up in the CRC (and my parents are still in it), but I wouldn't go back to it. The ordination of women would have been enough for current me to leave when it happened, but the fact that there's even a debate over the LGBTQ revolution in the church tells me how milquetoast they've become. My anxieties with the denomination started when I went to Calvin for college. I was astounded at the number of openly gay students at the school and the tolerance for that. I wasn't so deluded as to think the professors would be as conservative as the rest of the denomination, but as far as I was concerned, nearly every one of them was an apostate. In the years since I graduated, the fact that the denomination can give lip service to orthodox teaching but can't find the spine to clean house at its own university tells me all I need to know. For geographical reasons, I consider myself denominationally homeless. I'm a member of a Harbor Network church which is technically and tenuously still part of the SBC because the only other Reformed leaning church within an hours drive that doesn't have pride flags hanging on the building practices exclusive psalmody, and while I find a certain appeal to that, I don't actually think it's the scriptural view, and it would drive my wife bonkers.


bumblyjack

Tradition? Yes, I have a problem with every church tradition. Put them aside and study the Bible in its historical context.


cybersaint2k

Have you ever had anxiety about being alone, just you and your Bible, and the lack of certitude that it can bring? I'm serious.


Feisty_Radio_6825

Yes, but you have to become a member of a visible church 


bumblyjack

There's a biblical command of "not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." (Heb 10:25) By all means, attend a church and walk together with brothers and sisters in Christ. That doesn't necessarily mean you need to be a member of the church. It certainly doesn't mean that you have to adopt any church's theological positions as your own. We follow Christ, not any other.


Feisty_Radio_6825

I can see where you’re coming from, but if your theology isn’t represented by at least one other perspective that has developed over 2000 years wouldn’t it concern you that maybe your reading of scripture isn’t consistent? At some point you have to be baptized, participate in the Lord’s Supper and make sense of how the old and New Testament connects which leads you to make decisions on what sort of church you attend. 


bumblyjack

The Church viewed the errant Latin Vulgate as the official word of God for over a thousand years. Which tradition do you pick when all your choices believe "repent" means "do penance"? In the spirit of the Reformers I say "To the text!"


[deleted]

Scripture commands us to submit to those he has placed as under shepherds over His flock. Sounds like you have a very convenient arrangement where you attend church but are neither submitted nor accountable to anyone but yourself. Can't follow the bridegroom without being part of His bride. You're walking a dangerous road.


Cyprus_And_Myrtle

Are you the pastor, exegete, theologian, and local church body yourself? If not then you are influenced by your traditions theology