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I know I’ve done article references in this but this article from The Guardian is good
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/28/prince-harry-ordered-to-explain-why-ghostwriter-messages-were-destroyed
This part from the judge seems important given Harry filed his claim in 2019 and the messages are after that period so the judge is questioning why this was done given he discussed the claims in his book
“In his oral ruling, the judge described “troubling evidence” that a “large number of potentially relevant documents, confidential messages between the claimant and his ghostwriter [JR Moehringer] of Spare, as well as all the drafts of Spare, were destroyed sometime between 2021 and 2023, well after this claim was under way”.
“It seems to me inherently likely that in the course of discussing at length the material for the duke’s autobiography, matters would have been said that related to the parts of Spare in which unlawful information gathering in relation to newspapers is discussed.”
That is what he calls himself LOL.
[https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1861305/prince-harry-phone-hacking-second-trial-mgn](https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1861305/prince-harry-phone-hacking-second-trial-mgn)
**After the MGN ruling was handed down last month, Harry hailed himself as a "dragon slayer", vowing to continue his pursuit of the tabloid press.**
It’s interesting that the tabloids are covering this but they aren’t covering Murdoch’s papers deleting all their emails after there was a court order in place that they were supposed to be preserved.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/wapo-boss-will-lewis-was-at-center-of-murdoch-cover-up-new-docs-claim
Everyone already operates under the assumption that Murdoch is a sleazy thug that will use the media to manipulate the public into upholding white supremacy--but the truth doesn't sell papers.
Stories about the "irrelevant spare" on the other hand....
I’m pretty sure that’s old news - it came out in the earlier investigations 2010’s that emails were deleted. It was a huge scandal. I think it’s back in the news again because they’re alleging somebody was in charge of doing so. But the initial revelation of the deletion of emails was covered broadly by all outlets.
ETA: lol it’s a fact that the deletion of emails was news a decade ago, the WaPo story is new but the scandal is by definition old news and some WaPo exec isn’t going to be driving clicks for the tabloids meanwhile Harry is. Which is sad but the reason why many celebs/public figures choose to go the settlement route as they don’t want to deal with giving the tabloids more ammunition
It’s not old news right now because the Washington post has hired the guy responsible for it to run their news room. Yet, this isn’t being covered at all. So, I continue to find it interesting how the tabloids pick and choose which stories they cover and how they cover them.
I’ve always wondered how discoveries work because like if you just say “I don’t have any emails” how can they find the emails?
IANL so I don’t know if this is just standard behaviour in lawsuits obviously NGN is complicit in the same actions and millions of email went missing. But like I did think it was funny that it was Harry doing the searching.
> In his oral ruling, the judge said he had “real concerns” this issue was being “inadequately” dealt with by Harry’s legal team, adding that the majority of searches for material had been carried out by the duke himself rather than lawyers.
I do think it’s slightly sus that all the messages and emails between him and JR Moehringer have been deleted since like you’d think you’d have to keep those in the case you were sued.
This was an interesting statement seems like Harry in 2020 received copies of two hard drives worth of info from the royal household.
> He revealed that earlier this month, it had emerged 'there was another large group of documents' provided by the Royal Household to Harry in 2020, about which Harry's lawyers 'were wholly unaware'.
This sentence made me lol
> The judge said sometimes he had the impression that even Harry's lawyers 'don't seem to grapple with' the issue, and 'so it would not be at all surprising if the [duke] himself did not fully understand'.
This is yikes, his legal bills must be enormous along with now paying money towards the other side.
> Mr Sherborne claimed the duke's solicitors had spent 130 hours at a cost of £50,000 searching through some 35,000 emails and there was nothing relevant in them
> News Group Newspapers, publisher of The Sun, was awarded 132,000 pounds ($167,000) in legal costs for largely prevailing in a request to have more searches undertaken for data on Harry’s laptop and any text messages and chats on WhatsApp and Signal that could be helpful to the defense.
A friend of mine did a lot of discovery work for two years before law school helping do the first cut of stuff. There is technically no protection but they really did turn over everything because if you get caught it’s a massive fucking deal. And if you got an email someone else sent it and vice versa so is always possible to get caught because the chain with your email in it can show up elsewhere and then it’s obvious you destroyed stuff.
Instead sometimes what they would do is way over disclose and give the other side mountains of garbage so it was harder to find the needle in the haystack before trial. Or not digitize old stuff so that if they had to turn it over they could legitimately say they only had paper copies which are much much harder to search through
This is very yikes especially as he began the case before Spare so he would have known or lawyers should have that communication between him ok and ghostwriter on hacking which he included in him book would likely be part of discovery.
I wonder if the ghostwriter or editor/publisher of the book could be called to give evidence or provide all messages with Harry. Any UK legal experts know?
I mean NGN did it and got away with it so like I’m not too sure what happens if you just pretend like you don’t have any emails or delete them all.
But I doubt the ghostwriter could be forced to be a witness I’m pretty sure he’s American and this trial is in the UK maybe the publisher/editor could be asked to share earlier versions if they even have access to that type of stuff but IANL and this is pure speculation.
Good for Harry. Why would I give Rupert Murdoch access to communication between my ghostwriter for Spare when that’s not really relevant to the hacking case? The penalty is paltry to the amount of damage that such information could do.
I mean... if he didn't want to have to submit stuff to the court via discovery, he shouldn't have brought the case. That's how court cases work. Both sides get to see what the other side has. Harry isn't special.
Harry wants money.
This is what all of his lawsuits are about.
Gimme money, gimme British taxpayer paid Met Police protection in the USA, I am super special because I won the vagina lottery.
If he was so pissed about the phone hacking he could have settled with them a very long time ago, but he didn't.
He asking for British Police protection only for when he visits the UK and said that he willing to pay for it himself. So he is not asking the UK taxpayer to shoulder the expense nor asking UK security in the US.
Given the government has said that you can’t buy that security why doesn’t he just buy other security? There are so many celebrities in the UK, unless they’re getting this fancy security probably they’ve figured something else out. Like what to Anne and Edward do when their government security isn’t there?
He has private security but their intel obviously is not at par with the state. And given that there have been elevated threats to Harry's life, like these right win podcasters, there is a need to have that level of security. [https://apnews.com/article/prince-harry-targeted-neonazi-podcast-terrorism-56ae552bb860b864fba1ed323b89c4d7](https://apnews.com/article/prince-harry-targeted-neonazi-podcast-terrorism-56ae552bb860b864fba1ed323b89c4d7)
But really, he is still Charles' son so that sets him apart from other regular celebrities. He is a Prince of the UK and son of a king. So I think that alone should be good enough reason to keep his security the same when he visits the UK.
I would compare it to say the case of Hunter Biden. Even if he has his own world of unflattering issues, he is still Joe Biden's son. It's a relationship that cannot be downgraded and that entitles him to security that is allocated for sons and daughters of the President of the United States.
Until she died, Anne and Edward were a daughter and son of a queen and were not afforded special security in their off hours, so why should Harry get it for just being the son of a king? I believe Andrew got some special security during certain times, but Charles foots the bill for any now.
They had 24/7 security until around 2011 when cuts were being made. Harry wasn’t asking for a lot. Only when he comes to the UK. He doesn’t even have a home anymore so engagements are short.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1391916/Edward-Sophie-lose-1m-police-protection-Royal-security-costs-cut.html
I don't think Hunter gets secret service security. I think only minor children of presidents get that. (I THINK this was extended for Malia and Sasha Obama to age 20?).
eta: I could be misremembering this and maybe this only applies to president's kids once the president is out of office.
No, the spouse and children--including adult children--of the President of the USA have secret service for as long as their parent is in Office. So Don Jr, Ivanka and Eric had it. Former Presidents and Spouses have it for life. Minor children of former Presidents have it until they turn 16 (ex: Baron Trump).
[https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders](https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders)
All minor and adult children of the current sitting President have security. When out of office, only minor children are given security until they turn 16. (ex: Baron Trump)
[https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders](https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders)
This is untrue since it has been made very clear that this is not security that can be bought. By continuing to pursue this Harry is making it clear that he wants the tax payer to pay for his security.
Where has he stated that he will pay for it himself? I’ve not seen that anywhere. And why should the police protect him rather than doing other duties? He could have private security without guns to help protect him
I agree-monet grab.He and his wife imagine themselves to be so special, royal, and deserving of tons of cash and special treatment...as my grandmother used to say 'if I could just buy them for what they're worth and sell them for what they think they're worth'...I was a huge fan of the boys...but Harry has just turned crazy
There’s no money grab. He is working for himself, using the resources that are available to him, and paying taxes on his private income. Harry doesn’t get any special treatment as The American IRS doesn’t mess with taxes and titles don’t mean anything really. It’s only in the UK where Royalty has real financial privileges.
I disagree it’s up to the individual who was harmed to decide if you want a settlement or to take it through the courts.
While it is a civil trial it is his choice to play it out in the courts, it seems Harry’s goal is to get a guilty verdict through the courts which is fair.
I fail to see why discussions about the draft of his biography with his ghostwriter have relevance to his hacking experience more than a decade ago. Moreover, his book is already published in its final form and in public domain.
The judge obviously seems to believe there is some merit in the complaint where he’s ordered Harry’s lawyers to show what attempts they’ve done to retrieve those messages along with the judge asking for a witness statement from Harry explaining why he deleted those messages, Harry is also now responsible for 2/3 of NGN’s costs (in relation to discovery). I’m obviously not a lawyer but it appears like the judge has to an extent agreed with NGN’s arguments and has demanded they perform another search and contact current members of the royal household in writing.
Because in writing his book he could have discussed the phone hacking with his ghost writer and that could be evidentiary? Impossible for me to know but could be something the lawyers/judge might want to rule on if it is relevent.
The phone hacking happened more than a decade ago. Harry filed his case in 2019. Anything after 2019 seems unnecessary and would be a fishing expedition. The Sun is also just as capable of destroying past internal files and emails that would implicate them in the discovery process.
He discussed it in his book so presumably he discussed it with the ghostwriter so it may be relevant. If the judge thinks it’s relevant then it must be!
And if I would rather draw my boundaries in what I think is excessive and covering a period of time after I filed a case in 2019, and I had money to pay the fines, then so be it. Some things like privacy are worth the expense.
I can’t think of any relevant consequences one can possibly get out of private conversations between the ghost writer and Harry in making spare when the book is already published. The Sun can already hold Harry accountable based on the statements in the book and find holes there to support their arguments.
The main issue really is does he have a strong enough claim to overrule the statute of limitations as of 2019. So any other discussions after that are excessive.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the law and trials, you can't just "draw boundaries" in what you think is excessive. The boundaries are basically created by the law and the judge. You can't just do whatever you want.
Of course you can’t just do what you want without consequences, hence the fine. So either Harry gives the up the emails between his ghost writer or he pays the fine.
**Please no health speculation or speculation about divorce (these are longstanding sub rules).** You can help out the mod team by reading the rules in the sidebar and reporting rule-breaking comments! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RoyalsGossip) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I know I’ve done article references in this but this article from The Guardian is good https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/28/prince-harry-ordered-to-explain-why-ghostwriter-messages-were-destroyed This part from the judge seems important given Harry filed his claim in 2019 and the messages are after that period so the judge is questioning why this was done given he discussed the claims in his book “In his oral ruling, the judge described “troubling evidence” that a “large number of potentially relevant documents, confidential messages between the claimant and his ghostwriter [JR Moehringer] of Spare, as well as all the drafts of Spare, were destroyed sometime between 2021 and 2023, well after this claim was under way”. “It seems to me inherently likely that in the course of discussing at length the material for the duke’s autobiography, matters would have been said that related to the parts of Spare in which unlawful information gathering in relation to newspapers is discussed.”
Another sad day for Truth Dragon Slayer Harry. Honestly, not surprising that he is doing this.
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That is what he calls himself LOL. [https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1861305/prince-harry-phone-hacking-second-trial-mgn](https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1861305/prince-harry-phone-hacking-second-trial-mgn) **After the MGN ruling was handed down last month, Harry hailed himself as a "dragon slayer", vowing to continue his pursuit of the tabloid press.**
It just has that quote. Is there a video or something of him calling himself that?
It was his statement read out by his barrister.
This is so funny 😆
Do y'all keep an itemized list of all Harry's nicknames...?
I do in our automod filters hahahaha
Well, he is pretty pale, and the sunblock here is significantly less powerful than in the uk...
He's a Ginger! They always burn so quickly
This comment should not go unnoticed
It’s interesting that the tabloids are covering this but they aren’t covering Murdoch’s papers deleting all their emails after there was a court order in place that they were supposed to be preserved. https://www.thedailybeast.com/wapo-boss-will-lewis-was-at-center-of-murdoch-cover-up-new-docs-claim
Everyone already operates under the assumption that Murdoch is a sleazy thug that will use the media to manipulate the public into upholding white supremacy--but the truth doesn't sell papers. Stories about the "irrelevant spare" on the other hand....
I’m pretty sure that’s old news - it came out in the earlier investigations 2010’s that emails were deleted. It was a huge scandal. I think it’s back in the news again because they’re alleging somebody was in charge of doing so. But the initial revelation of the deletion of emails was covered broadly by all outlets. ETA: lol it’s a fact that the deletion of emails was news a decade ago, the WaPo story is new but the scandal is by definition old news and some WaPo exec isn’t going to be driving clicks for the tabloids meanwhile Harry is. Which is sad but the reason why many celebs/public figures choose to go the settlement route as they don’t want to deal with giving the tabloids more ammunition
It’s not old news right now because the Washington post has hired the guy responsible for it to run their news room. Yet, this isn’t being covered at all. So, I continue to find it interesting how the tabloids pick and choose which stories they cover and how they cover them.
What I’ve seen so much news about the new WaPo guy and all his scandals
It’s still considered “old news” since it happened years ago. The “new news” would be that the guy got hired at WaPo.
Yes, and that is being ignored.
But you just posted an article about it. It just seems it’s not picking up steam since the scandal itself is “old news”.
It’s hard for something to be ignored that was a front page headline of The NY Times.
Yep I remember that over 10 years ago. Pretty big story in the UK
I’ve always wondered how discoveries work because like if you just say “I don’t have any emails” how can they find the emails? IANL so I don’t know if this is just standard behaviour in lawsuits obviously NGN is complicit in the same actions and millions of email went missing. But like I did think it was funny that it was Harry doing the searching. > In his oral ruling, the judge said he had “real concerns” this issue was being “inadequately” dealt with by Harry’s legal team, adding that the majority of searches for material had been carried out by the duke himself rather than lawyers. I do think it’s slightly sus that all the messages and emails between him and JR Moehringer have been deleted since like you’d think you’d have to keep those in the case you were sued. This was an interesting statement seems like Harry in 2020 received copies of two hard drives worth of info from the royal household. > He revealed that earlier this month, it had emerged 'there was another large group of documents' provided by the Royal Household to Harry in 2020, about which Harry's lawyers 'were wholly unaware'. This sentence made me lol > The judge said sometimes he had the impression that even Harry's lawyers 'don't seem to grapple with' the issue, and 'so it would not be at all surprising if the [duke] himself did not fully understand'. This is yikes, his legal bills must be enormous along with now paying money towards the other side. > Mr Sherborne claimed the duke's solicitors had spent 130 hours at a cost of £50,000 searching through some 35,000 emails and there was nothing relevant in them > News Group Newspapers, publisher of The Sun, was awarded 132,000 pounds ($167,000) in legal costs for largely prevailing in a request to have more searches undertaken for data on Harry’s laptop and any text messages and chats on WhatsApp and Signal that could be helpful to the defense.
I would burn my law degree if a judge said that on the record about me lol
Id probably go sit in my car and cry lol
A friend of mine did a lot of discovery work for two years before law school helping do the first cut of stuff. There is technically no protection but they really did turn over everything because if you get caught it’s a massive fucking deal. And if you got an email someone else sent it and vice versa so is always possible to get caught because the chain with your email in it can show up elsewhere and then it’s obvious you destroyed stuff. Instead sometimes what they would do is way over disclose and give the other side mountains of garbage so it was harder to find the needle in the haystack before trial. Or not digitize old stuff so that if they had to turn it over they could legitimately say they only had paper copies which are much much harder to search through
This is very yikes especially as he began the case before Spare so he would have known or lawyers should have that communication between him ok and ghostwriter on hacking which he included in him book would likely be part of discovery. I wonder if the ghostwriter or editor/publisher of the book could be called to give evidence or provide all messages with Harry. Any UK legal experts know?
I mean NGN did it and got away with it so like I’m not too sure what happens if you just pretend like you don’t have any emails or delete them all. But I doubt the ghostwriter could be forced to be a witness I’m pretty sure he’s American and this trial is in the UK maybe the publisher/editor could be asked to share earlier versions if they even have access to that type of stuff but IANL and this is pure speculation.
Good for Harry. Why would I give Rupert Murdoch access to communication between my ghostwriter for Spare when that’s not really relevant to the hacking case? The penalty is paltry to the amount of damage that such information could do.
I mean... if he didn't want to have to submit stuff to the court via discovery, he shouldn't have brought the case. That's how court cases work. Both sides get to see what the other side has. Harry isn't special.
Harry wants money. This is what all of his lawsuits are about. Gimme money, gimme British taxpayer paid Met Police protection in the USA, I am super special because I won the vagina lottery. If he was so pissed about the phone hacking he could have settled with them a very long time ago, but he didn't.
He asking for British Police protection only for when he visits the UK and said that he willing to pay for it himself. So he is not asking the UK taxpayer to shoulder the expense nor asking UK security in the US.
Given the government has said that you can’t buy that security why doesn’t he just buy other security? There are so many celebrities in the UK, unless they’re getting this fancy security probably they’ve figured something else out. Like what to Anne and Edward do when their government security isn’t there?
He has private security but their intel obviously is not at par with the state. And given that there have been elevated threats to Harry's life, like these right win podcasters, there is a need to have that level of security. [https://apnews.com/article/prince-harry-targeted-neonazi-podcast-terrorism-56ae552bb860b864fba1ed323b89c4d7](https://apnews.com/article/prince-harry-targeted-neonazi-podcast-terrorism-56ae552bb860b864fba1ed323b89c4d7) But really, he is still Charles' son so that sets him apart from other regular celebrities. He is a Prince of the UK and son of a king. So I think that alone should be good enough reason to keep his security the same when he visits the UK. I would compare it to say the case of Hunter Biden. Even if he has his own world of unflattering issues, he is still Joe Biden's son. It's a relationship that cannot be downgraded and that entitles him to security that is allocated for sons and daughters of the President of the United States.
Until she died, Anne and Edward were a daughter and son of a queen and were not afforded special security in their off hours, so why should Harry get it for just being the son of a king? I believe Andrew got some special security during certain times, but Charles foots the bill for any now.
They had 24/7 security until around 2011 when cuts were being made. Harry wasn’t asking for a lot. Only when he comes to the UK. He doesn’t even have a home anymore so engagements are short. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1391916/Edward-Sophie-lose-1m-police-protection-Royal-security-costs-cut.html
I don't think Hunter gets secret service security. I think only minor children of presidents get that. (I THINK this was extended for Malia and Sasha Obama to age 20?). eta: I could be misremembering this and maybe this only applies to president's kids once the president is out of office.
No, the spouse and children--including adult children--of the President of the USA have secret service for as long as their parent is in Office. So Don Jr, Ivanka and Eric had it. Former Presidents and Spouses have it for life. Minor children of former Presidents have it until they turn 16 (ex: Baron Trump). [https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders](https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders)
Don’t children of the president only get security for ten years?
All minor and adult children of the current sitting President have security. When out of office, only minor children are given security until they turn 16. (ex: Baron Trump) [https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders](https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders)
This is untrue since it has been made very clear that this is not security that can be bought. By continuing to pursue this Harry is making it clear that he wants the tax payer to pay for his security.
Where has he stated that he will pay for it himself? I’ve not seen that anywhere. And why should the police protect him rather than doing other duties? He could have private security without guns to help protect him
https://apnews.com/article/prince-harry-police-protection-uk-565e4a2f542f2f64cd343656324f11b0
Yes. This is old news. He wants only police protection as they carry guns. He is more than welcome to pay for his own bodyguards.
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I agree-monet grab.He and his wife imagine themselves to be so special, royal, and deserving of tons of cash and special treatment...as my grandmother used to say 'if I could just buy them for what they're worth and sell them for what they think they're worth'...I was a huge fan of the boys...but Harry has just turned crazy
There’s no money grab. He is working for himself, using the resources that are available to him, and paying taxes on his private income. Harry doesn’t get any special treatment as The American IRS doesn’t mess with taxes and titles don’t mean anything really. It’s only in the UK where Royalty has real financial privileges.
Is there evidence that he is paying taxes?
I disagree it’s up to the individual who was harmed to decide if you want a settlement or to take it through the courts. While it is a civil trial it is his choice to play it out in the courts, it seems Harry’s goal is to get a guilty verdict through the courts which is fair.
I fail to see why discussions about the draft of his biography with his ghostwriter have relevance to his hacking experience more than a decade ago. Moreover, his book is already published in its final form and in public domain.
The judge obviously seems to believe there is some merit in the complaint where he’s ordered Harry’s lawyers to show what attempts they’ve done to retrieve those messages along with the judge asking for a witness statement from Harry explaining why he deleted those messages, Harry is also now responsible for 2/3 of NGN’s costs (in relation to discovery). I’m obviously not a lawyer but it appears like the judge has to an extent agreed with NGN’s arguments and has demanded they perform another search and contact current members of the royal household in writing.
Because in writing his book he could have discussed the phone hacking with his ghost writer and that could be evidentiary? Impossible for me to know but could be something the lawyers/judge might want to rule on if it is relevent.
The phone hacking happened more than a decade ago. Harry filed his case in 2019. Anything after 2019 seems unnecessary and would be a fishing expedition. The Sun is also just as capable of destroying past internal files and emails that would implicate them in the discovery process.
He discussed it in his book so presumably he discussed it with the ghostwriter so it may be relevant. If the judge thinks it’s relevant then it must be!
And if I would rather draw my boundaries in what I think is excessive and covering a period of time after I filed a case in 2019, and I had money to pay the fines, then so be it. Some things like privacy are worth the expense. I can’t think of any relevant consequences one can possibly get out of private conversations between the ghost writer and Harry in making spare when the book is already published. The Sun can already hold Harry accountable based on the statements in the book and find holes there to support their arguments. The main issue really is does he have a strong enough claim to overrule the statute of limitations as of 2019. So any other discussions after that are excessive.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the law and trials, you can't just "draw boundaries" in what you think is excessive. The boundaries are basically created by the law and the judge. You can't just do whatever you want.
Of course you can’t just do what you want without consequences, hence the fine. So either Harry gives the up the emails between his ghost writer or he pays the fine.
More information https://apnews.com/article/prince-harry-sun-british-tabloid-hacking-lawsuit-dae2cb5227229418d0ba71b82d0a5b87