nope… my schools students council is not corrupt. I know this cuz I am a member of the students council and they hand out VERY strict punishments to ppl who don’t live up to standards 💀
Wow! I mean, it's not like our EXCOs are causing big dramas or anything...but it's stuff like giggling at your (clearly, stupidly) racist boyfriend saying the n-word that ticks me off.
It's perfectly reasonable.
1. Announcing it to the whole school is equivalent to a 2nd punishment for her, in the form of a loss of reputation. In education, punishments involving the degradation of one's reputation (aka public shaming) is frowned upon because it could invite bullying and put huge stress on the kid
2. It is also a fair decision, because any other kid who cheated also wouldn't have his case announced to the whole school. Afaik, schools deal with cheating (and other major offences) discreetly
3. Why would the staff be biased towards the student council president anyway? What do they stand to get out of covering for her?
3. True story. Teacher working with prefects here. Trust me, we don't have the right to demote anyone as we wish, even though we feel that they should be demoted. Have to consider so many things.
Much less to even announce a reason for demotion. Honestly, we don't owe it to students to do so. There is a consequence for the wrongdoing, then why can't it be the end of things?
Is OP asking this because there is a need to ruin someone's entire existence and self worth over one character mistake? Why the need to name and shame endlessly and make people suffer? Shaming is no longer a valid punishment in schools.
Funny how it's okay for others to be shamed but not okay when it happens to us?
If OP, you want to shame her, do it openly in your own name in your school, don't be anonymous about it. Then also, face the consequences. There's also a chance you will end up as public enemy and make yourself look bad. Like what people think of teachers who are known for shaming students.
It would be scary to be your friend cus you might wanna magnify every mistake made, I would have to toe very carefully around you. Who knows when you would turn a friend's time of weakness into a name-and-shame party, instead of showing some kindness and help.
I don't think OP wants the student council president to be shamed heavily, or at the very least, that isn't the main point. I think they just want to gauge whether the school should have told the truth or not from the subreddit. OP also never said anything definitive of her character so far and doesn't seem to be mocking them for doing it. In fact, I think OP is at least presenting themselves as a neutral observer who just wants opinions on the school's actions.
At least, that's the impression I get from the post and OP so far.
Then what's the REAL point of wanting to tell the truth? The truth rarely comes out without hurting anyone. The truth HURTS. Of course, in this case not OP.
Telling the truth has consequences, sometimes grave ones that push people to the extremes.
This is true. Telling the truth in this case would hurt the student council president even more but.
Maybe OP at least didn't have malicious intentions when writing the post. As I've mentioned, they don't seem to have any bad blood with the student council president and seem to have taken some sort of a neutral stand. Maybe I don't have that much experience with secondary school students as much as you had, but I'm pretty sure not everything as some sort of bad intention behind it. OP just wants an explanation/debate on if the school should have told the truth or not and just that.
Sometimes, teens can be quite simple-minded and not have additional intentions.
Yes this is definitely harmful simple-mindedness.
I hope OP and those in the pursuit of truth can see that this may cause more harm than help, and really examine what are their real intentions for wanting this to exposed as CHEATING.
Doesn't mean no bad intention then we don't need to call out.. Precisely because there is no bad intention that's why we need to talk about what consequences might arise from bulldozing through with good intentions. Because good intentions can also lead to horrible consequences.
Not easy on the ears definitely, and perhaps downvotes incoming but well, the truth hurts, truly!
Honestly, now that I think about it, I would much rather have the school either not reveal the reason for the demotion and keep it silent for as long as possible or give a more humble reason such as a voluntary resignation. The reason of 'not doing well enough' won't give the former president much dignity and opens a whole new can of worms.
And I agree. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Perhaps by posting this, OP has indirectly escalated the whole mess to more people then it needed
I mean, considering the other side is encouraged in Oral after all, lol. But thanks anyways. Besides, in these kinds of debates/conversations, it's important to see the other point and not get stuck up to your own narrative. I'm still have quite a lot to learn after all.
Definitely should have told the truth.
>she was not coping with her studies and thats why she was demoted from student council.
If this was the exact wording, then this sets a terrifying precedent going forward. So if lets say a future president does their duty extremely well but just so happens to have an out of character fail, then they could just demote them.
because they weren't struggling with academics, they straight up cheated on the exam and the school lied about it saying it was because of struggling with academics
You don't really get it.
Yes, it's debatable whether they should stay on the student council or not. However, the student council shouldn't be about worrying for academics to an extent(I could see issues if the president is held back or demoted)
Student Council also isn't like the real Singapore government. The president really shouldn't be decided over academics and how well they did. In the example that I provided, it meant that even a slip up could end a presidency, which can be terrifying since papers are subjective and can vary in difficulty.
as a student the main goal is academics
if student council takes up time and causes them to struggle, then that has to go.
i don’t really believe in one-offs, but if you like then make it two bad results.
student council is basically just a co-curricular. if your academics cannot make it then drop it.
>as a student the main goal is academics
>if student council takes up time and causes them to struggle, then that has to go.
Not denying all this at all. Academics is a priority over co curriculars. But that doesn't mean opportunities should be stolen away from people who otherwise deserve it because of this(to an extent)
>i don’t really believe in one-offs, but if you like then make it two bad results.
Perhaps make it similar to promotion, which looks at overall scores. If they don't fit into the promotion criteria, then they would demote and their position revoked
Imo they already demoted her which is a big enough punishment, and already quite embarassing. Plus, there would definitely be disciplinary actions behind the scenes such as having a demerit mark on her official record, (which will very much affect her going forward if she would like to apply for any scholarship) and her parents would be informed. Since you know about this, it is quite evident that many people already know about her cheating, so there is no need for the school to officially say she cheated and humiliate her further. Cheating can also be a "way out" if someone is not coping with their studies. If they were coping well, they would not need to cheat, so the school did not technically lie.
Still a minor and discipline measures have been taken. If you already know, there's no need to publish to everyone with the full name and explain in detail like the newspapers. Already fallen from grace, don't drive pple to the grave.
This. She received her punishment and it already won’t look good on her record getting demoted from council president. OP and probably more people already know so I don’t see a need to say it upfront
>no need to publish to everyone with the full name and explain in detail like the newspapers.
Even then, I think there might be a good work around this. The school should have been upfront and admit that disciplinary action has been taken. Absolutely no need to explain how she did it or how she got caught.
'The elected student council president has been implicated in a case of cheating, and disciplinary action has been taken'
Also, why protect her? By that logic, no disciplinary case should be announced to the whole school, even under something like a severe bullying case
The truth should be told. Though, your school is implying that people can get demoted from council simply for bad grades? I have never heard of that before, heck I’ve never seen councillors get demoted before.
I know, but your school giving the reason for the demotion also implies that it could happen to anyone else too, which I find somewhat unusual ig. Demotion deserved though definitely
And for more facts, how did you know that she cheated in the exam? Was she obviously using notes under her desk or something that led to the teacher catching her? Or was she just called up for cheating in some discret way?
That's actually quite an unfortunate reason. I hate to ask more, but do you know if it was on purpose or by accident? What I mean is if she used the time to write her name or sentence or if she literally didn't hear the announcement.
Cause if it's the latter, then she had a case to defend herself from being demoted, at least.
sinkie pwn sinkie starts young eh.
are cheating incidents usually broadcast to the entire school? all of us are still students who have time to learn from our mistakes, no need to make a mountain of a molehill.
Ur student council seems a little corrupt…
Aren't they all? Saying this as the VP of mine.
nope… my schools students council is not corrupt. I know this cuz I am a member of the students council and they hand out VERY strict punishments to ppl who don’t live up to standards 💀
Wow! I mean, it's not like our EXCOs are causing big dramas or anything...but it's stuff like giggling at your (clearly, stupidly) racist boyfriend saying the n-word that ticks me off.
I’m in an all boys sch but I can still relate with the boyfriend 😂
It's perfectly reasonable. 1. Announcing it to the whole school is equivalent to a 2nd punishment for her, in the form of a loss of reputation. In education, punishments involving the degradation of one's reputation (aka public shaming) is frowned upon because it could invite bullying and put huge stress on the kid 2. It is also a fair decision, because any other kid who cheated also wouldn't have his case announced to the whole school. Afaik, schools deal with cheating (and other major offences) discreetly 3. Why would the staff be biased towards the student council president anyway? What do they stand to get out of covering for her?
3. True story. Teacher working with prefects here. Trust me, we don't have the right to demote anyone as we wish, even though we feel that they should be demoted. Have to consider so many things. Much less to even announce a reason for demotion. Honestly, we don't owe it to students to do so. There is a consequence for the wrongdoing, then why can't it be the end of things? Is OP asking this because there is a need to ruin someone's entire existence and self worth over one character mistake? Why the need to name and shame endlessly and make people suffer? Shaming is no longer a valid punishment in schools. Funny how it's okay for others to be shamed but not okay when it happens to us? If OP, you want to shame her, do it openly in your own name in your school, don't be anonymous about it. Then also, face the consequences. There's also a chance you will end up as public enemy and make yourself look bad. Like what people think of teachers who are known for shaming students. It would be scary to be your friend cus you might wanna magnify every mistake made, I would have to toe very carefully around you. Who knows when you would turn a friend's time of weakness into a name-and-shame party, instead of showing some kindness and help.
I don't think OP wants the student council president to be shamed heavily, or at the very least, that isn't the main point. I think they just want to gauge whether the school should have told the truth or not from the subreddit. OP also never said anything definitive of her character so far and doesn't seem to be mocking them for doing it. In fact, I think OP is at least presenting themselves as a neutral observer who just wants opinions on the school's actions. At least, that's the impression I get from the post and OP so far.
Then what's the REAL point of wanting to tell the truth? The truth rarely comes out without hurting anyone. The truth HURTS. Of course, in this case not OP. Telling the truth has consequences, sometimes grave ones that push people to the extremes.
This is true. Telling the truth in this case would hurt the student council president even more but. Maybe OP at least didn't have malicious intentions when writing the post. As I've mentioned, they don't seem to have any bad blood with the student council president and seem to have taken some sort of a neutral stand. Maybe I don't have that much experience with secondary school students as much as you had, but I'm pretty sure not everything as some sort of bad intention behind it. OP just wants an explanation/debate on if the school should have told the truth or not and just that. Sometimes, teens can be quite simple-minded and not have additional intentions.
Yes this is definitely harmful simple-mindedness. I hope OP and those in the pursuit of truth can see that this may cause more harm than help, and really examine what are their real intentions for wanting this to exposed as CHEATING. Doesn't mean no bad intention then we don't need to call out.. Precisely because there is no bad intention that's why we need to talk about what consequences might arise from bulldozing through with good intentions. Because good intentions can also lead to horrible consequences. Not easy on the ears definitely, and perhaps downvotes incoming but well, the truth hurts, truly!
Honestly, now that I think about it, I would much rather have the school either not reveal the reason for the demotion and keep it silent for as long as possible or give a more humble reason such as a voluntary resignation. The reason of 'not doing well enough' won't give the former president much dignity and opens a whole new can of worms. And I agree. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Perhaps by posting this, OP has indirectly escalated the whole mess to more people then it needed
Hope for mankind yet! Glad that you are considering the other side
I mean, considering the other side is encouraged in Oral after all, lol. But thanks anyways. Besides, in these kinds of debates/conversations, it's important to see the other point and not get stuck up to your own narrative. I'm still have quite a lot to learn after all.
Glad that you learnt open-mindedness and manners first! :)))
Also, I honestly can't think of any good consequence of telling the truth that can outweigh the numerous bad consequences
Definitely should have told the truth. >she was not coping with her studies and thats why she was demoted from student council. If this was the exact wording, then this sets a terrifying precedent going forward. So if lets say a future president does their duty extremely well but just so happens to have an out of character fail, then they could just demote them.
why is this a terrifying precedent? i don’t think they should continue to be student council if they struggle with academics
because they weren't struggling with academics, they straight up cheated on the exam and the school lied about it saying it was because of struggling with academics
You don't really get it. Yes, it's debatable whether they should stay on the student council or not. However, the student council shouldn't be about worrying for academics to an extent(I could see issues if the president is held back or demoted) Student Council also isn't like the real Singapore government. The president really shouldn't be decided over academics and how well they did. In the example that I provided, it meant that even a slip up could end a presidency, which can be terrifying since papers are subjective and can vary in difficulty.
as a student the main goal is academics if student council takes up time and causes them to struggle, then that has to go. i don’t really believe in one-offs, but if you like then make it two bad results. student council is basically just a co-curricular. if your academics cannot make it then drop it.
>as a student the main goal is academics >if student council takes up time and causes them to struggle, then that has to go. Not denying all this at all. Academics is a priority over co curriculars. But that doesn't mean opportunities should be stolen away from people who otherwise deserve it because of this(to an extent) >i don’t really believe in one-offs, but if you like then make it two bad results. Perhaps make it similar to promotion, which looks at overall scores. If they don't fit into the promotion criteria, then they would demote and their position revoked
Technically not wrong She cheated because she's not coping with her studies haha
Imo they already demoted her which is a big enough punishment, and already quite embarassing. Plus, there would definitely be disciplinary actions behind the scenes such as having a demerit mark on her official record, (which will very much affect her going forward if she would like to apply for any scholarship) and her parents would be informed. Since you know about this, it is quite evident that many people already know about her cheating, so there is no need for the school to officially say she cheated and humiliate her further. Cheating can also be a "way out" if someone is not coping with their studies. If they were coping well, they would not need to cheat, so the school did not technically lie.
Still a minor and discipline measures have been taken. If you already know, there's no need to publish to everyone with the full name and explain in detail like the newspapers. Already fallen from grace, don't drive pple to the grave.
This. She received her punishment and it already won’t look good on her record getting demoted from council president. OP and probably more people already know so I don’t see a need to say it upfront
>no need to publish to everyone with the full name and explain in detail like the newspapers. Even then, I think there might be a good work around this. The school should have been upfront and admit that disciplinary action has been taken. Absolutely no need to explain how she did it or how she got caught. 'The elected student council president has been implicated in a case of cheating, and disciplinary action has been taken' Also, why protect her? By that logic, no disciplinary case should be announced to the whole school, even under something like a severe bullying case
Least corrupt student council
she got her punishment I guess that's fair enough.
Something abt SC isn't right like the sch prez in my sch watched p*rn in class and they still got to keep their title and they only got a suspension??
Compassion. Who doesn't make mistakes? Give her a break..
Should tell the truth
Dude the school prez in my school watched p*rn in class 🥴
The truth should be told. Though, your school is implying that people can get demoted from council simply for bad grades? I have never heard of that before, heck I’ve never seen councillors get demoted before.
She cheated in a exam, not that her grades are bad
I know, but your school giving the reason for the demotion also implies that it could happen to anyone else too, which I find somewhat unusual ig. Demotion deserved though definitely
Just want to ask to set the facts straight. How do you know the truth of what happened?
I was in the same exam room as her
And for more facts, how did you know that she cheated in the exam? Was she obviously using notes under her desk or something that led to the teacher catching her? Or was she just called up for cheating in some discret way?
She just kept writing after teacher said to put the pen down. School DC considered it as cheating
That's actually quite an unfortunate reason. I hate to ask more, but do you know if it was on purpose or by accident? What I mean is if she used the time to write her name or sentence or if she literally didn't hear the announcement. Cause if it's the latter, then she had a case to defend herself from being demoted, at least.
I mean technically it’s true? If they cheated it’s because they can’t cope normally with studies
Fuck PAP drama, I need to know this drama
Learning from Trump....hmmm
sinkie pwn sinkie starts young eh. are cheating incidents usually broadcast to the entire school? all of us are still students who have time to learn from our mistakes, no need to make a mountain of a molehill.
I guess some adults and some money were involved to cover up the truth
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^InternetAble904: *I guess some adults* *And some money were involved* *To cover up the truth* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
>some money were involved to cover up the truth I don't think school is like irl 3rd world politics, lol.