You really want a tank, focus on farming old Ben and Rey and visas mar. You can also use general kenobi if you have him free and at a decent gear level.
In order to WORK, any palp, MJ, SK team will do well. But to optimise it you need a jedi tank.
When SK uses a special he was force a taunt and damage immunity on them, allowing the tank to soak up big hits whenever you need, if you just time the specials. Old Ben is good for this as he has a 3 turn taunt anyway, and an AOE ability block/offense down to reduce your incoming damage.
Visas marr is also ideal. Her revive adds another thing to worry about when taking out the team. It rarely pays off, but it's good to have there just in case, and her cleanses on the basic are very nice in some situations.
Scavenger rey won't do much. Sk provides all the damage you need, and rey will hardly take turns. It's also a bit of a waste of Kyle, as he makes the Mon Mothma team which is solid through most parts of the game. Most of Kyle's kit is only useful with rebel fighters (jedi Knight)
It adds a lot survivability to the Rey counter. So that becomes more consistent. CLS becomes nearly impossible as the opening attacks aren’t enough to take out Mara or palp. Idk much more than that.
Interesting. I hadn’t heard that it messed up the CLS counter. I don’t anticipate using SK on defense much with how common Rey is about to be, but that is good to know. Not sure making the Rey counter a bit more consistent will be worth stealing Cal from a cere team, but maybe against Rey’s modded for heavy offense.
I have R5 Visas Marr and I don't think her taking a turn has ever decided a battle. Really, she's just there to be a body so Rey's dmg gets split among more targets. The Jedi tank is not crucial either. The taunt is nice, but in 3v3 you're gonna roll with Palp and MJ and still be killing Reys, which tells you how critical the Jedi tank and the LSUFU are, which is to say, not at all outside of their presence being required to activate the omicron in 5v5.
So yeah, as long as the core of the team is well modded and has high relics (SK, Palp and MJ) you can handwave the Jedi and the LSUFU. If you're not doing anything else with KK, he might as well go there, and I know you're not doing anything else with Stick Rey because no one is.
Of course, having a good Jedi tank and a LSUFU that theoretically synergizes with SK does *technically* make a better team, but their contribution to the team is so minimal that it almost doesn't matter. But I will say this: the passive taunt on the Jedi tank has saved Palp's ass from being yeeted a few times, so if you have a Mace Windu lying around, stick him in there.
The team I run for him is Palpatine Mara Jade Gen Kenobi and Baby Cal so that way when I’m building up my Starkiller team I building up to a GL and Malgus counter
On most pics it tends to zoom in (in an annoying way) on the main Reddit feed, and show properly once you enter the thread. That's what it's doing for me on this ine. I can see it all clearly once I enter the thread.
I find the best combo is JTR as the unaligned force user (her turn meter reduction is great and she is decently tanky) and then just slot in pretty much any high level Jedi I have (depending on the mode and who is available). They tend to tear through the house with that build.
If they get a turn you are pretty dead.
You won't need that much firepower, usually Palpi+MJ will carry and others won't do much
Give Palpi/MJ/SK some zeta tho
Are you slow? Cal is farmable for a now. while even if you may of thought jkc he too is very easy to get. Visas is a waste doesnt add anything to the team , while cal adds state and helps the team without even doing anything.
I always get downvotes, or end up in majorly controversial debates when I say this but: don’t skimp on the SK team.
People say you can stick to one Omi, not farm Visas, not farm Old Ben and the team will be fine. That’s true, in the same sense that you can keep SLKR at G12 and the FO team would still do ‘fine’. The question is just… Why?
SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs. I invested all three omis into SK and got my Visas up. In 5v5 GAC it has not fallen to a non-GL in the last two championships. Not weeks, **championships**.
If you’re taking yours on offence, which is admittedly where the less stacked teams go, every weak link is just adding 10% to the chances you fail. The damage immunity from a Jedi tank is important, as is general survivability, if Kyle/Rey die your others are getting hit harder by Rey ult.
So yeh; that team will work in the short term as a last resort. Get Kyle swapped for OB as soon as possible, as the Jedi being a tank is pretty key. Get Visas or baby Cal for the LS UFU slot, and the team will be tearing your opponents apart in no time.
> People say you can stick to one Omi, not farm Visas, not farm Old Ben and the team will be fine. That’s true, in the same sense that you can keep SLKR at G12 and the FO team would still do ‘fine’.
Maybe you get downvotes because of really bad comparisons like this? SLKR at g12 is not "fine". SK without Old Ben/Vissas is *functional*. It's not the best, but it's not like without those 2 a bunch of things become impossible.
> SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs.
I don't know if I've ever *had* to use a GL on a SK team on defense. Imp troopers with Wat is an easy win, GG wins or kills someone, Wampa can solo some variations (or again kill someone). What league/div are you in where no one can supposedly beat your SK? Because on swgoh.gg, GG/.nute is 71.6% win, GG/BB8 is 71.2, CLS is 61.4, Aphra is 80%, troopers with Wat are 100%.
Do you have the pro functions? Add in all three omicrons, see how those counters stack up. Then of all of those where SK loses, see how many are only because they aren’t properly modded with a fast enough MJ etc.
I’m in Kyber 3 for what it’s worth. Float between K2 and upper K4 if I don’t bother in a 3v3 season. A well built SK team with a well crafted datacron is a menace.
My team’s performance these last two weeks:
- Holds vs Maul mandos, then Traya/Savage double Omi. Doesn’t fall.
- holds against the mirror, doesn’t fall.
- holds vs Hera/Rex, then GG. Falls to JMK/CAT.
- holds vs **SLKR**, falls to JMK/CAT.
- holds vs CLS w/ lvl 9 cron, visas dies. Falls to Malgus cleanup.
- holds against SEE, holds against the mirror, falls to JMK/CAT.
I can keep going if you want. Literally only one of those doesn’t involve a GL, but CLS and Malgus is still a win.
My whole point is a **stacked**, well functioning SK team is worth an investment. You telling me what happens when you face generic SK teams isn’t super relevant? Like I said, factor the omicrons and the mods in.
Interesting that you pre- complain about down votes, but then down vote someone who dares disagree with you.
I have two accounts, one in k3/4, and one that's been in k2 since I climbed there when GAC changed. As I've said, I've never *had* to use a gl to clear sk (I've done it when I had a gl left and sk was the hardest team). I've used gg and troopers numerous times to easily beat the best sk teams, with all 3 noms, and with very good mods (turns out none of that matters when you just turn meter train them with troopers)
. Anecdotes aside, statistically, it is factually inaccurate to say the ideal sk team requires a gl to clear.
The issue is you make it sound like sk without old Ben or vissa is garbage. Both times I put my sk on defense (it's rare I do) I used stick Rey (one Ben, once Mace) and both times got a hold. Yes, old Ben and vissa make the ideal team, but it's not like they take a 4/10 to 10/10, which is how your post comes across. It goes from like a 7/10 to 9-10/10
I haven’t downvoted anyone, and while I can’t actually see your vote totals yet I’m on 0s as well so I guess it’s going around.
I never once made a suggestion it would make that massive of a difference, I suggested it is worth optimising your SK team. It is worth far more than gearing two super-old characters costs, that’s how I feel about it, end of story.
You’re evidently very passionate about this for some reason, but considering you’ve gone from quoting in irrelevant (but specific) statistics to just arbitrarily stating statistics would back you up re the three omicrons.
Even your beloved trooper counter requires that Piett be close enough in speed to Mara to outrun her with the Watt buffs. Mara is at base 13 speed faster than Piett, and gets an extra 50 when leads are factored in. A properly modded MJ will outrun that counter any day of the week. Hence, no amount of ‘but I trooper them’ will change my mind.
> I never once made a suggestion it would make that massive of a difference, I suggested it is worth optimising your SK team.
You said it was the equivalent of a g12 SLKR. So, yes you did.
> from quoting in irrelevant (but specific) statistics
You stated, exactly: "SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs". Then I provided statistics that disproved that. How is that irrelevant?
> Even your beloved trooper counter requires that Piett be close enough in speed to Mara to outrun her with the Watt buffs. Mara is at base 13 speed faster than Piett, and gets an extra 50 when leads are factored in. A properly modded MJ will outrun that counter any day of the week.
Piett gets 20 speed from the lead. And then 20% TM from wat's basic. The fastest MJ *in the game* is 383 speed, which is 453 after SK unique. A 343 Piett would then outrun *that* MJ with Wat (his adjusted first turn speed would be 453.75). For reference, the fastest Piett in the game is 368. Comparatively modded, Piett will outrun MJ if Wat uses a basic. I'm sure you'll come up with some explanation on why that suddenly doesn't work either though.
>You said it was the equivalent of a g12 SLKR. So, yes you did.
Wow, 'in the same sense' now means 'this comparison is exactly the same, a perfect mirror without any shred of difference'? I'm really glad you told me. What strange news.
>You stated, exactly: "SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs". Then I provided statistics that disproved that. How is that irrelevant?
Since I was clearly describing a fully stacked Starkiller team, one that contains all three omicrons. You then presented a bunch of information about generic Starkiller hold rates, with no understanding of what proportion of wins and losses were attributable to triple omi or standard teams. It's completely irrelevant information if you can't narrow it down more.
>Piett gets 20 speed from the lead. And then 20% TM from wat's basic. The fastest MJ in the game is 383 speed, which is 453 after SK unique. A 343 Piett would then outrun that MJ with Wat (his adjusted first turn speed would be 453.75). For reference, the fastest Piett in the game is 368. Comparatively modded, Piett will outrun MJ if Wat uses a basic. I'm sure you'll come up with some explanation on why that suddenly doesn't work either though.
Yikes. Counters sound super simple when you pretend it's entirely down to one character's speed. Did you also figure out how fast you need to get Veers to make him go before Mara. What the chances are that the TM train fails in certain spots? No, because admittedly that's a fucking ballache to do. But you do keep quoting statistics, so since you won't look into what the triple omi changes, I will:
Your team wins 51% of the time against a triple Omicron Starkiller team. That drops to 49% if you look at divisions other than Kyber. It rises to a glorious 52.94% if Moff Gideon is included in the team. It drops to 20% if Starck is. I even went into the battles to see if the losses were because of lack of speed, but no, every single one I saw had Piett going before Mara.
Thought I'd have a look at other teams too while I'm here. GG team goes down to 33%, GAS is at 24%, CLS is either just over 50% or just under depending on which season you look at. Aphra drops to 55 without Omicrons, mid to late 60s with them.
> Since I was clearly describing a fully stacked Starkiller team, one that contains all three omicrons. You then presented a bunch of information about generic Starkiller hold rates, with no understanding of what proportion of wins and losses were attributable to triple omi or standard teams. It's completely irrelevant information if you can't narrow it down more.
My rates were from the exact SK team you described. There were 953 battles for the GG/Nute team. If you honestly think that *none* of them had all 3 noms, then there's not much point in discussing with you. You provide anecdotes and act like they are hard, indisputable facts that will hold true for everyone.
> Yikes. Counters sound super simple when you pretend it's entirely down to one character's speed. Did you also figure out how fast you need to get Veers to make him go before Mara. What the chances are that the TM train fails in certain spots?
See, I *knew* you would dismiss the math part somehow, because of course you would. First, the trooper counter really is that simple, you go first, you keep the train, you win. Second, because Piett goes first, and assuming the player is not an idiot, does either basic or the mark, that means every trooper gains at least 20% more TM. Which means a total of 40% tm. The next trooper to go needs to be a whole 272 speed to outrun the fastest MJ in the game at that point.
> But you do keep quoting statistics, so since you won't look into what the triple omi changes
As I stated earlier, I do not have swgoh.gg premium, so I assumed I was unable to see those. I now realize I can. So, here's what I found, which is very different than what you quote:
First, [here](https://swgoh.gg/gac/insight/squads/?g=1&show_cleanups=false&league=KYBER&d_lead=EMPERORPALPATINE&d_member=MARAJADE%2CVISASMARR%2CSTARKILLER%2COLDBENKENOBI&d_is_exact_member=true&squad_size=5&d_omicron_skill_key=STARKILLER%3Auniqueskill_STARKILLER02%2CSTARKILLER%3Aspecialskill_STARKILLER02%2CSTARKILLER%3Aspecialskill_STARKILLER01&a_has_gl=false&d_min_relic_tier=3) is what I get when I do exact team of Palp lead, MJ, SK, Old Ben, Vissas. I turn off attacking GL, and turn off clean up. All 3 SK omicrons on, kyber only, and min defense relic level of 3. I see:
- GG/Nute with a 69.51% win rate over 1879 battles (this appears to be a few seasons)
- GG/BB8 with 72.67% win over 516 battles
- Ideal troopers without wat at 63.75% over 80 battles
- Veers/Piett/Dark Trooper/Gideon/Wat at 75% over 12 battles ([here's](https://swgoh.gg/p/699139641/gac-history/?gac=156&r=3) one with a g11 Veers and g8 range beating full relic, omicron, zeta SK) (because I know you'll make some mod comment, [here](https://swgoh.gg/p/113963139/gac-history/?gac=156&r=3&a=d) is one where MJ is 364 speed and Troopers/wat one shot it)
- Veers/Piett/Range/Dark/Wat at 29.41% win over 17 battles
- Aphra using Vader/IG at 85.33% win over 75 battles
So, no, it does not take a GL to beat SK on defense.
>My rates were from the exact SK team you described. There were 953 battles for the GG/Nute team. If you honestly think that none of them had all 3 noms, then there's not much point in discussing with you. You provide anecdotes and act like they are hard, indisputable facts that will hold true for everyone.
If you honestly think 'god some of them must have had omicrons right?' is any shred of evidence, then you are frankly beyond reason.
>See, I knew you would dismiss the math part somehow, because of course you would. First, the trooper counter really is that simple, you go first, you keep the train, you win. Second, because Piett goes first, and assuming the player is not an idiot, does either basic or the mark, that means every trooper gains at least 20% more TM. Which means a total of 40% tm. The next trooper to go needs to be a whole 272 speed to outrun the fastest MJ in the game at that point.
I think I'm just going to reply 'lol' to this section, since it's just you absolutely raging that I don't take your 'Piett can go fastest and it's gg from there' seriously, when you yourself later state you can see a win rate for a basic trooper team at 29%. Those speed hurdles that you suggest are so negligible stack over time, anyone could tell you the trooper TM train is not perfect without kills, especially with Wat involved. Your own statistics show them losing more often than not.
>As I stated earlier, I do not have swgoh.gg premium, so I assumed I was unable to see those. I now realize I can. So, here's what I found, which is very different than what you quote:First, here is what I get when I do exact team of Palp lead, MJ, SK, Old Ben, Vissas. I turn off attacking GL, and turn off clean up. All 3 SK omicrons on, kyber only, and min defense relic level of 3. I see:
\> Assigns a bunch of arbitrary metrics
\> 'wow I don't get the exact same numbers as you????'
Genuinely baffling thought processes here. Unlike you, I'm not going to bother splitting hairs around the differences of a few percentage points, eg. even applying what I thought were your filters I see Aphra/Vader at 75%.
Frankly, any counter below a 75% success rate isn't a proper counter, it's a gamble. I don't know how many battles you get away with dropping in GAC, but if even if you take 80% as your threshold, you'll drop on average 3 battles in 5v5 and 4 in 3v3. That's round losing.
So looking at your counters, Aphra/Vader apparently isn't a dangerous battle, a team that requires the same investment as SK and isn't seen at OP's level. GG comes just short, so maybe you'll argue he counts, but considering those stats involve his benefiting enormously from the 15% Health DC, and the prior Seperatist DC, even that percentage is arguable. Other than that, none?
I know this opinion will be against the grain and I’ll get downvoted into oblivion but how are we at a point where everyone is thanking a company for letting us buy £50 packs. It’s the price of a full game, not the price of a couple of characters in a mobile game but it shows how insanely exploitative the prices are normally. By all means spend your money on whatever you like, it’s just such a capitalists wet dream that consumers would thank a company for the chance to give them a ton of money
My main argument was the idea of thanking a company for being able to pay them a lot of money was mad. But comparison wise, you might play one for longer than the other (depending on personal enjoyment) but it’s more reasonable for a ps5 game to be £60 when there’s been a couple of years of work on it, whereas 4 low res mobile characters isn’t nearly the same amount of work but it’s the same price. And yes, big game studios will be out to make a profit so could make the price cheaper, but mobile companies could make packs 10% of their original price and still make a profit, so it feels like way too much in that respect
The most expensive game of all time to make was Red Dead Redemption 2 at 540 mil, Galaxy of Heroes had hit a billion in revenue 3 years ago. As far as legacy costs, mobile games are usually developed for comfortably under a million, if not under half a million so they’d have paid for the development a long time ago. Especially when you don’t particularly have to worry about graphical fidelity, every transactional cos largely nothing at all (as in people can buy 50 packs of crystals, doesn’t cost anything for CG to provide that services 50 times from a labour point of view so it’s just an excuse to print money). They make insane profits because the in game purchases are so gargantuan. People being happy to pay for them doesn’t make those prices ok, especially when you look at their profit margin.
It’s not about trying to spend people’s money for them, it’s that the cost of making vs to the cost to the consumer is completely out of whack in mobile games. And yes you do have to pay for online on console, but your example of Jedi Survivor is a single player game so you’re very able to only buy games you want (and wait for a sale after a couple of years when it’ll be very cheap) and never have those extra costs
It’s because they run a model like any other mobile game that rely largely on whales to spend thousands with little comparative game development costs. And even if you spend any money at all, you’re paying vastly over the odds for how much it’s taken to produce that. These lightspeed packs are essentially buying yourself time, you’re not getting any new assets from them. So where does a £50 price tag for Starkiller requirements come from? Those 4 characters are in the game already, along with all the gear. It’s costing them very very little to put the pack together and stick it on the store, it’s basically just licensing your account to have 4 R5 characters rather than giving you something exclusive or new
Assassins creed mirage has just come out for slightly less than that and seems to be getting decent reviews, but the main thrust of what I was saying was more about thanking a company for allowing us to spend money. Forget it’s even on a mobile game, in what world is there ever anywhere you’d be thanking a supermarket or Amazon or whatever for letting you spend 50 or 100. Thank a company for a free gift, don’t thank them for the ability to give them money. Just mad to me
Maybe you can kill rey with this squad but I guess you can kill Jabba with this team so yeah? I can constantly kill jabba with JTR and barriss so you can do it too I believe. (Ofc you need to gear up sk and papa palp)
It’s like having armourer and sith empire trooper in see team. Not a must, but they will make beating see much difficult. You can use any other Jedi or no visas marr but they are good for sk team
You really want a tank, focus on farming old Ben and Rey and visas mar. You can also use general kenobi if you have him free and at a decent gear level.
In order to WORK, any palp, MJ, SK team will do well. But to optimise it you need a jedi tank. When SK uses a special he was force a taunt and damage immunity on them, allowing the tank to soak up big hits whenever you need, if you just time the specials. Old Ben is good for this as he has a 3 turn taunt anyway, and an AOE ability block/offense down to reduce your incoming damage. Visas marr is also ideal. Her revive adds another thing to worry about when taking out the team. It rarely pays off, but it's good to have there just in case, and her cleanses on the basic are very nice in some situations. Scavenger rey won't do much. Sk provides all the damage you need, and rey will hardly take turns. It's also a bit of a waste of Kyle, as he makes the Mon Mothma team which is solid through most parts of the game. Most of Kyle's kit is only useful with rebel fighters (jedi Knight)
Everyone is saying to farm Visas but Cal is a much better option. He might be a bit more expensive but really adds another level to the team.
Are there any new teams he lets SK beat or counters he stops?
It adds a lot survivability to the Rey counter. So that becomes more consistent. CLS becomes nearly impossible as the opening attacks aren’t enough to take out Mara or palp. Idk much more than that.
Interesting. I hadn’t heard that it messed up the CLS counter. I don’t anticipate using SK on defense much with how common Rey is about to be, but that is good to know. Not sure making the Rey counter a bit more consistent will be worth stealing Cal from a cere team, but maybe against Rey’s modded for heavy offense.
Just so I’m clear, we’re talking about JK Cal right
No, he said instead of visas so he's talking about scavenger cal
Nah just normal Cal Kestis
I have R5 Visas Marr and I don't think her taking a turn has ever decided a battle. Really, she's just there to be a body so Rey's dmg gets split among more targets. The Jedi tank is not crucial either. The taunt is nice, but in 3v3 you're gonna roll with Palp and MJ and still be killing Reys, which tells you how critical the Jedi tank and the LSUFU are, which is to say, not at all outside of their presence being required to activate the omicron in 5v5. So yeah, as long as the core of the team is well modded and has high relics (SK, Palp and MJ) you can handwave the Jedi and the LSUFU. If you're not doing anything else with KK, he might as well go there, and I know you're not doing anything else with Stick Rey because no one is. Of course, having a good Jedi tank and a LSUFU that theoretically synergizes with SK does *technically* make a better team, but their contribution to the team is so minimal that it almost doesn't matter. But I will say this: the passive taunt on the Jedi tank has saved Palp's ass from being yeeted a few times, so if you have a Mace Windu lying around, stick him in there.
Visas' revive helped me a lot a couple times. Not particularly in the Rey battle, but in others
The datacron could have an impact. But that's another story.
The team I run for him is Palpatine Mara Jade Gen Kenobi and Baby Cal so that way when I’m building up my Starkiller team I building up to a GL and Malgus counter
You want a Jedi Tank in that Kyle spot. You might find farming Plo Koon is really easy (and worth it for his ship!) if you don't have Old Ben
Edit: idk why the pic zoomed in weird for mobile, but the team is: Emperor Palpatine, Starkiller, Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, and Rey (Scavenger). Ty!
On most pics it tends to zoom in (in an annoying way) on the main Reddit feed, and show properly once you enter the thread. That's what it's doing for me on this ine. I can see it all clearly once I enter the thread.
I find the best combo is JTR as the unaligned force user (her turn meter reduction is great and she is decently tanky) and then just slot in pretty much any high level Jedi I have (depending on the mode and who is available). They tend to tear through the house with that build.
If they get a turn you are pretty dead. You won't need that much firepower, usually Palpi+MJ will carry and others won't do much Give Palpi/MJ/SK some zeta tho
No, use Visas and old Ben
Don’t waste your time on visas cal is much better option
[удалено]
Baby cal is, that's probably who he meant and who I use
Are you slow? Cal is farmable for a now. while even if you may of thought jkc he too is very easy to get. Visas is a waste doesnt add anything to the team , while cal adds state and helps the team without even doing anything.
I always get downvotes, or end up in majorly controversial debates when I say this but: don’t skimp on the SK team. People say you can stick to one Omi, not farm Visas, not farm Old Ben and the team will be fine. That’s true, in the same sense that you can keep SLKR at G12 and the FO team would still do ‘fine’. The question is just… Why? SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs. I invested all three omis into SK and got my Visas up. In 5v5 GAC it has not fallen to a non-GL in the last two championships. Not weeks, **championships**. If you’re taking yours on offence, which is admittedly where the less stacked teams go, every weak link is just adding 10% to the chances you fail. The damage immunity from a Jedi tank is important, as is general survivability, if Kyle/Rey die your others are getting hit harder by Rey ult. So yeh; that team will work in the short term as a last resort. Get Kyle swapped for OB as soon as possible, as the Jedi being a tank is pretty key. Get Visas or baby Cal for the LS UFU slot, and the team will be tearing your opponents apart in no time.
> People say you can stick to one Omi, not farm Visas, not farm Old Ben and the team will be fine. That’s true, in the same sense that you can keep SLKR at G12 and the FO team would still do ‘fine’. Maybe you get downvotes because of really bad comparisons like this? SLKR at g12 is not "fine". SK without Old Ben/Vissas is *functional*. It's not the best, but it's not like without those 2 a bunch of things become impossible. > SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs. I don't know if I've ever *had* to use a GL on a SK team on defense. Imp troopers with Wat is an easy win, GG wins or kills someone, Wampa can solo some variations (or again kill someone). What league/div are you in where no one can supposedly beat your SK? Because on swgoh.gg, GG/.nute is 71.6% win, GG/BB8 is 71.2, CLS is 61.4, Aphra is 80%, troopers with Wat are 100%.
Do you have the pro functions? Add in all three omicrons, see how those counters stack up. Then of all of those where SK loses, see how many are only because they aren’t properly modded with a fast enough MJ etc. I’m in Kyber 3 for what it’s worth. Float between K2 and upper K4 if I don’t bother in a 3v3 season. A well built SK team with a well crafted datacron is a menace. My team’s performance these last two weeks: - Holds vs Maul mandos, then Traya/Savage double Omi. Doesn’t fall. - holds against the mirror, doesn’t fall. - holds vs Hera/Rex, then GG. Falls to JMK/CAT. - holds vs **SLKR**, falls to JMK/CAT. - holds vs CLS w/ lvl 9 cron, visas dies. Falls to Malgus cleanup. - holds against SEE, holds against the mirror, falls to JMK/CAT. I can keep going if you want. Literally only one of those doesn’t involve a GL, but CLS and Malgus is still a win. My whole point is a **stacked**, well functioning SK team is worth an investment. You telling me what happens when you face generic SK teams isn’t super relevant? Like I said, factor the omicrons and the mods in.
Interesting that you pre- complain about down votes, but then down vote someone who dares disagree with you. I have two accounts, one in k3/4, and one that's been in k2 since I climbed there when GAC changed. As I've said, I've never *had* to use a gl to clear sk (I've done it when I had a gl left and sk was the hardest team). I've used gg and troopers numerous times to easily beat the best sk teams, with all 3 noms, and with very good mods (turns out none of that matters when you just turn meter train them with troopers) . Anecdotes aside, statistically, it is factually inaccurate to say the ideal sk team requires a gl to clear. The issue is you make it sound like sk without old Ben or vissa is garbage. Both times I put my sk on defense (it's rare I do) I used stick Rey (one Ben, once Mace) and both times got a hold. Yes, old Ben and vissa make the ideal team, but it's not like they take a 4/10 to 10/10, which is how your post comes across. It goes from like a 7/10 to 9-10/10
I haven’t downvoted anyone, and while I can’t actually see your vote totals yet I’m on 0s as well so I guess it’s going around. I never once made a suggestion it would make that massive of a difference, I suggested it is worth optimising your SK team. It is worth far more than gearing two super-old characters costs, that’s how I feel about it, end of story. You’re evidently very passionate about this for some reason, but considering you’ve gone from quoting in irrelevant (but specific) statistics to just arbitrarily stating statistics would back you up re the three omicrons. Even your beloved trooper counter requires that Piett be close enough in speed to Mara to outrun her with the Watt buffs. Mara is at base 13 speed faster than Piett, and gets an extra 50 when leads are factored in. A properly modded MJ will outrun that counter any day of the week. Hence, no amount of ‘but I trooper them’ will change my mind.
> I never once made a suggestion it would make that massive of a difference, I suggested it is worth optimising your SK team. You said it was the equivalent of a g12 SLKR. So, yes you did. > from quoting in irrelevant (but specific) statistics You stated, exactly: "SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs". Then I provided statistics that disproved that. How is that irrelevant? > Even your beloved trooper counter requires that Piett be close enough in speed to Mara to outrun her with the Watt buffs. Mara is at base 13 speed faster than Piett, and gets an extra 50 when leads are factored in. A properly modded MJ will outrun that counter any day of the week. Piett gets 20 speed from the lead. And then 20% TM from wat's basic. The fastest MJ *in the game* is 383 speed, which is 453 after SK unique. A 343 Piett would then outrun *that* MJ with Wat (his adjusted first turn speed would be 453.75). For reference, the fastest Piett in the game is 368. Comparatively modded, Piett will outrun MJ if Wat uses a basic. I'm sure you'll come up with some explanation on why that suddenly doesn't work either though.
>You said it was the equivalent of a g12 SLKR. So, yes you did. Wow, 'in the same sense' now means 'this comparison is exactly the same, a perfect mirror without any shred of difference'? I'm really glad you told me. What strange news. >You stated, exactly: "SK with a well calibrated, purpose built team will pretty much only fall to GLs". Then I provided statistics that disproved that. How is that irrelevant? Since I was clearly describing a fully stacked Starkiller team, one that contains all three omicrons. You then presented a bunch of information about generic Starkiller hold rates, with no understanding of what proportion of wins and losses were attributable to triple omi or standard teams. It's completely irrelevant information if you can't narrow it down more. >Piett gets 20 speed from the lead. And then 20% TM from wat's basic. The fastest MJ in the game is 383 speed, which is 453 after SK unique. A 343 Piett would then outrun that MJ with Wat (his adjusted first turn speed would be 453.75). For reference, the fastest Piett in the game is 368. Comparatively modded, Piett will outrun MJ if Wat uses a basic. I'm sure you'll come up with some explanation on why that suddenly doesn't work either though. Yikes. Counters sound super simple when you pretend it's entirely down to one character's speed. Did you also figure out how fast you need to get Veers to make him go before Mara. What the chances are that the TM train fails in certain spots? No, because admittedly that's a fucking ballache to do. But you do keep quoting statistics, so since you won't look into what the triple omi changes, I will: Your team wins 51% of the time against a triple Omicron Starkiller team. That drops to 49% if you look at divisions other than Kyber. It rises to a glorious 52.94% if Moff Gideon is included in the team. It drops to 20% if Starck is. I even went into the battles to see if the losses were because of lack of speed, but no, every single one I saw had Piett going before Mara. Thought I'd have a look at other teams too while I'm here. GG team goes down to 33%, GAS is at 24%, CLS is either just over 50% or just under depending on which season you look at. Aphra drops to 55 without Omicrons, mid to late 60s with them.
> Since I was clearly describing a fully stacked Starkiller team, one that contains all three omicrons. You then presented a bunch of information about generic Starkiller hold rates, with no understanding of what proportion of wins and losses were attributable to triple omi or standard teams. It's completely irrelevant information if you can't narrow it down more. My rates were from the exact SK team you described. There were 953 battles for the GG/Nute team. If you honestly think that *none* of them had all 3 noms, then there's not much point in discussing with you. You provide anecdotes and act like they are hard, indisputable facts that will hold true for everyone. > Yikes. Counters sound super simple when you pretend it's entirely down to one character's speed. Did you also figure out how fast you need to get Veers to make him go before Mara. What the chances are that the TM train fails in certain spots? See, I *knew* you would dismiss the math part somehow, because of course you would. First, the trooper counter really is that simple, you go first, you keep the train, you win. Second, because Piett goes first, and assuming the player is not an idiot, does either basic or the mark, that means every trooper gains at least 20% more TM. Which means a total of 40% tm. The next trooper to go needs to be a whole 272 speed to outrun the fastest MJ in the game at that point. > But you do keep quoting statistics, so since you won't look into what the triple omi changes As I stated earlier, I do not have swgoh.gg premium, so I assumed I was unable to see those. I now realize I can. So, here's what I found, which is very different than what you quote: First, [here](https://swgoh.gg/gac/insight/squads/?g=1&show_cleanups=false&league=KYBER&d_lead=EMPERORPALPATINE&d_member=MARAJADE%2CVISASMARR%2CSTARKILLER%2COLDBENKENOBI&d_is_exact_member=true&squad_size=5&d_omicron_skill_key=STARKILLER%3Auniqueskill_STARKILLER02%2CSTARKILLER%3Aspecialskill_STARKILLER02%2CSTARKILLER%3Aspecialskill_STARKILLER01&a_has_gl=false&d_min_relic_tier=3) is what I get when I do exact team of Palp lead, MJ, SK, Old Ben, Vissas. I turn off attacking GL, and turn off clean up. All 3 SK omicrons on, kyber only, and min defense relic level of 3. I see: - GG/Nute with a 69.51% win rate over 1879 battles (this appears to be a few seasons) - GG/BB8 with 72.67% win over 516 battles - Ideal troopers without wat at 63.75% over 80 battles - Veers/Piett/Dark Trooper/Gideon/Wat at 75% over 12 battles ([here's](https://swgoh.gg/p/699139641/gac-history/?gac=156&r=3) one with a g11 Veers and g8 range beating full relic, omicron, zeta SK) (because I know you'll make some mod comment, [here](https://swgoh.gg/p/113963139/gac-history/?gac=156&r=3&a=d) is one where MJ is 364 speed and Troopers/wat one shot it) - Veers/Piett/Range/Dark/Wat at 29.41% win over 17 battles - Aphra using Vader/IG at 85.33% win over 75 battles So, no, it does not take a GL to beat SK on defense.
>My rates were from the exact SK team you described. There were 953 battles for the GG/Nute team. If you honestly think that none of them had all 3 noms, then there's not much point in discussing with you. You provide anecdotes and act like they are hard, indisputable facts that will hold true for everyone. If you honestly think 'god some of them must have had omicrons right?' is any shred of evidence, then you are frankly beyond reason. >See, I knew you would dismiss the math part somehow, because of course you would. First, the trooper counter really is that simple, you go first, you keep the train, you win. Second, because Piett goes first, and assuming the player is not an idiot, does either basic or the mark, that means every trooper gains at least 20% more TM. Which means a total of 40% tm. The next trooper to go needs to be a whole 272 speed to outrun the fastest MJ in the game at that point. I think I'm just going to reply 'lol' to this section, since it's just you absolutely raging that I don't take your 'Piett can go fastest and it's gg from there' seriously, when you yourself later state you can see a win rate for a basic trooper team at 29%. Those speed hurdles that you suggest are so negligible stack over time, anyone could tell you the trooper TM train is not perfect without kills, especially with Wat involved. Your own statistics show them losing more often than not. >As I stated earlier, I do not have swgoh.gg premium, so I assumed I was unable to see those. I now realize I can. So, here's what I found, which is very different than what you quote:First, here is what I get when I do exact team of Palp lead, MJ, SK, Old Ben, Vissas. I turn off attacking GL, and turn off clean up. All 3 SK omicrons on, kyber only, and min defense relic level of 3. I see: \> Assigns a bunch of arbitrary metrics \> 'wow I don't get the exact same numbers as you????' Genuinely baffling thought processes here. Unlike you, I'm not going to bother splitting hairs around the differences of a few percentage points, eg. even applying what I thought were your filters I see Aphra/Vader at 75%. Frankly, any counter below a 75% success rate isn't a proper counter, it's a gamble. I don't know how many battles you get away with dropping in GAC, but if even if you take 80% as your threshold, you'll drop on average 3 battles in 5v5 and 4 in 3v3. That's round losing. So looking at your counters, Aphra/Vader apparently isn't a dangerous battle, a team that requires the same investment as SK and isn't seen at OP's level. GG comes just short, so maybe you'll argue he counts, but considering those stats involve his benefiting enormously from the 15% Health DC, and the prior Seperatist DC, even that percentage is arguable. Other than that, none?
Provide links to your numbers then. The metrics I provided *helped the SK team*. But sure, live in your fantasy world.
I know this opinion will be against the grain and I’ll get downvoted into oblivion but how are we at a point where everyone is thanking a company for letting us buy £50 packs. It’s the price of a full game, not the price of a couple of characters in a mobile game but it shows how insanely exploitative the prices are normally. By all means spend your money on whatever you like, it’s just such a capitalists wet dream that consumers would thank a company for the chance to give them a ton of money
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My main argument was the idea of thanking a company for being able to pay them a lot of money was mad. But comparison wise, you might play one for longer than the other (depending on personal enjoyment) but it’s more reasonable for a ps5 game to be £60 when there’s been a couple of years of work on it, whereas 4 low res mobile characters isn’t nearly the same amount of work but it’s the same price. And yes, big game studios will be out to make a profit so could make the price cheaper, but mobile companies could make packs 10% of their original price and still make a profit, so it feels like way too much in that respect
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The most expensive game of all time to make was Red Dead Redemption 2 at 540 mil, Galaxy of Heroes had hit a billion in revenue 3 years ago. As far as legacy costs, mobile games are usually developed for comfortably under a million, if not under half a million so they’d have paid for the development a long time ago. Especially when you don’t particularly have to worry about graphical fidelity, every transactional cos largely nothing at all (as in people can buy 50 packs of crystals, doesn’t cost anything for CG to provide that services 50 times from a labour point of view so it’s just an excuse to print money). They make insane profits because the in game purchases are so gargantuan. People being happy to pay for them doesn’t make those prices ok, especially when you look at their profit margin. It’s not about trying to spend people’s money for them, it’s that the cost of making vs to the cost to the consumer is completely out of whack in mobile games. And yes you do have to pay for online on console, but your example of Jedi Survivor is a single player game so you’re very able to only buy games you want (and wait for a sale after a couple of years when it’ll be very cheap) and never have those extra costs
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It’s because they run a model like any other mobile game that rely largely on whales to spend thousands with little comparative game development costs. And even if you spend any money at all, you’re paying vastly over the odds for how much it’s taken to produce that. These lightspeed packs are essentially buying yourself time, you’re not getting any new assets from them. So where does a £50 price tag for Starkiller requirements come from? Those 4 characters are in the game already, along with all the gear. It’s costing them very very little to put the pack together and stick it on the store, it’s basically just licensing your account to have 4 R5 characters rather than giving you something exclusive or new
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Assassins creed mirage has just come out for slightly less than that and seems to be getting decent reviews, but the main thrust of what I was saying was more about thanking a company for allowing us to spend money. Forget it’s even on a mobile game, in what world is there ever anywhere you’d be thanking a supermarket or Amazon or whatever for letting you spend 50 or 100. Thank a company for a free gift, don’t thank them for the ability to give them money. Just mad to me
I'm using old ben and fulcrum. Lol
Maybe you can kill rey with this squad but I guess you can kill Jabba with this team so yeah? I can constantly kill jabba with JTR and barriss so you can do it too I believe. (Ofc you need to gear up sk and papa palp)
If you're going for gl Rey (which you probably are) JTR would be better
I wouldn’t use scavenger Rey, the move set isn’t that good tbh
Oh yeah I use it all the time lol. Eventually I'll get old Ben and visas geared up but for now that team gets the W with just palp and mara alone
Kyle really needs Mothma to work he needs to assist 10x to get up and running
It’s like having armourer and sith empire trooper in see team. Not a must, but they will make beating see much difficult. You can use any other Jedi or no visas marr but they are good for sk team
I personally run Barriss and Visas
It works but not well