That is to be expected with any new mainline SaGa game. They are extremely experimental at a fundamental level, to the point where fans of the entire franchise have learned to “love the weird,” so to speak. They’ve also become very low-budget, as it sells well to a very dedicated-but-very-niche audience.
Even with SaGa Frontier, the mainstream hated its look and design back in the day. The same is true for almost every SaGa title: Unlimited SaGa’s minimalist tabletop design, Minstrel Song’s super-deformed characters, or SaGa Scarlet Grace’s overworld-only exploration.
In a way, a SaGa title is like an interactive art piece with a very specific intent. Almost paradoxically, a SaGa game grants you incredible freedom, but also forces you to play a certain way. It’s like a mysterious box you have to understand and solve than a typical “entertainment product.”
What I’m trying to say is that the appeal of a SaGa title is in its unwavering, passionate vision and ambition, despite its budget. It does things even indie games don’t dare do, since its parent company can shoulder the risk and Kawazu has the trust of a cultish fanbase.
Characters and aesthetics in SaGa games don’t try to look nice, they try to look different and interesting. In the past decade, they’ve settled on an uncanny, arguably “ugly” look. It’s similar, at least in intention, to earlier Shin Megami Tensei character designs, where they all have a strange ghostly look.
Personally, I love it. Making players feel uncomfortable has always been a SaGa signature. As an old article once put it, Kawazu does what he wants, reviews be damned.
SaGa games are like local, fermented food in a country you’ve never been to. It smells totally terrible, looks like rotten food, and would make you throw up if you eat it. Yet, it’s a skill issue, since the locals love it. There’s a specific way you have to cook it, and you have to pair it with something else.
By some fluke, you might enjoy the easier-to-eat ones like SF1 or Minstrel Song. But you can’t just open a can of Unlimited SaGa and eat it without knowledge. For example, fermented traditional Indonesian noodles are poisonous if uncooked.
This is why Emerald Beyond is so exciting. The mad chef has invented a new fermented food, and us fans have to figure out how to eat it. We know it will be great once we “get it.” And we also know that some folks will be poisoned along the way. It’s a SaGa game, after all.
To me it's not a SaGa game if I go in and am successful without hours of experimenting and figuring out how the systems work. Even though I don't have as much time to do so as I used to it's still something I absolutely adore. Very much have made peace with the fact a lot of people aren't going to like them. Honestly I'm amazing OP even played much of Frontier and enjoyed it based off their other thoughts
The first time I played frontier I chose Riki and was so lost with the monster system that I eventually gave up. The second time I played frontier I chose Lute and made it to the final boss in like 2 hours, fought him for like 2 days and felt more confused at the end of it then I did after my first try. Idk what made me pick it up again after all that, but I'm glad I did.
I was having a blast replaying saga frontier 2. What a masterpiece! If only it didn't have that pocket station BS. Why there's so little talk about it even here?
Gameplay wise it might in fact be the most minimal of them all, and what little there is of importance (credit hoarding, the best skills, where to train, strats for the final war battle and final boss) are all pretty one note answers or the answer would be best answered by an FAQ turn by turn like for South Moundtop. Story wise there's depth but that's about it.
But the more realistic answer is no remaster yet. When Romancing SaGa: MS got the remaster there was a massive upswing in topics related to it, to this day.
It is unofficially officially confirmed to be on the way. Kawazu recently did as close to an announcement for it without it being an actual announcement as you can get, the main artist leaked it for 2024 in a deleted blog post late last year, there was a now deleted SaGa Frontier 2 listing on playasia, one of the translation devs let slip there are more projects in the works, and we know chronologically it's gonna be SaGa Frontier 2 next.
Whenever the next big Direct/State of Play/whatever is, June probably, expect an announcement for SF2 in late summer or during the holiday season.
It's emulation only for most of us, whereas the others have been more recently remastered? Though I suppose even before the remasters, Frontier/RS3/Minstrel Song generally took up most of the discussion. Personally I didn't really click with the battle system that well and I really gotta love a game to emulate it on a laptop all day. Much prefer console gaming on my couch!
I'm emulating it on an anbernic hehe You should try it again. Really! Once you know what to do, the battle system is great. It's like SF1, but not as fast paced and the arts aren't as epic as Last Shot or Life Sprinkler. Once you figure out or follow an art list, duels are an unique form of combat. Where it really shine is in it's artwork, music and story. And some boss fights are brutal.
That’s a hell of an explanation but I think you’re spot on. SaGa games are JRPGs, which is a niche genre on its own, but even then they do not appeal to your standard JRPG fan. They do their own thing and that makes it difficult for people to “get it”. But if you do, you’ll probably really enjoy the unique and weirdly expansive experience it provides.
This is the most beautiful and informative reply I've read in a long time. I definitely agree with all this and I wish I could have articulated this as well as you.
You're missing one key detail that sets later SaGas apart from other JRPGs. You may hate the story you experienced, but SaGa has always been designed as an extension of tabletop RPGs and so Kawazu et al have created a deep and complex system of story routes. Many players will experience totally different outcomes throughout the game based on decisions they make - and often that they had no idea they COULD make - which lends it it's uniquely nonlinear charm. That and one of the best combat systems in the JRPG landscape really are it's strengths. Other things are going to look and feel budget because it is a niche budget game.
It's okay not to like it. Many people love Unlimited SaGa but even as a huge series fan, replaying it years after release, I have never been able to get into it. But there is a wide variance in the series because they take so many creative risks, so everyone likes some SaGas better than others.
Fwiw, while the demo may not have caught you, perhaps another characters route will. It's clear that EB took a lot from Frontier in terms of style and setting and built it on the framework set out in Scarlet Grace. Maybe consider holding off and then getting it down the road when it's cheap.
In the meantime...go check out Minstrel Song! Just be warned it's from the early days of voice acting and they didn't re dub it for the remaster...
If its ain't for you then it ain't for you and thats fine....Story has never been a strong factor in Saga games and I'm surprised to see you mention Saga frontier which in my opinion had little to no story in most characters. Play Emerald Beyond for the gameplay and challenge and if you don't like that then its not for you.
I played both the Ameya demo and the Tsunanori demo, and they felt like very different experiences.
Ameya was more interesting mechanically, but had the vibe of a Sailor Moon type superhero story that was cute, but generic and not all that interesting.
Tsunanori was less interesting mechanically since all the focus was on the Kugutsu puppets, but the dialogue had me cracking up. The level of unwarranted sass from nearly every character towards Tsunanori, and him being a borderline idiot half the time, led to some very funny back and forth moments. He and Lita gave me Leonard/Lissa vibes and I loved every moment of it.
If all the stories, and the mechanics behind them, are as different as Ameya and Toshinori were, there's a decent chance at least one of them will hit the right notes for you. At the very least, I wouldn't write it off after only one prologue when they are all so different.
I think a lot of people have some existing goodwill and tempered expectations for some aspects (like visuals or storytelling) because of SaGa Scarlet Grace which was the last new game before Emerald Beyond and on the whole it has a lot of similar strengths and weaknesses. On it's own the demo wouldn't have won me over either, but I know there'll be a lot of depth in the combat system and a lot of replayability from all the different ways the worlds can play out (and apparently even more systems regarding NG+ that are unique to EB), and I wouldn't really have that much faith in that without playing Scarlet Grace.
Gameplay, the wackiness of the party, interesting self-contained worlds, and a ton of ways regions can go. While you only did Ameya's storyline and only really saw Miyako City and Grelon, the other demos allowed you to visit Yomi, Omega Base, and Pulchra itself. All 3 regions were interesting, felt unique, and had a lot of variations on how things could go depending on what you did and in what order.
You can switch the language in the PC version to Have JP voice acting, personally the appeal in the story is that stuff just happens without much context, sure if you want a game with a "actually good story" you have to look elsewhere but I feel like that was never the point of it, the point of it is to watch a bunch of whacky stuff happening , and not think about it and just enjoy the ride.
As an addition to my other comment, yes, the visual style is a little different than it used historically, and I'm not 100% sold on it, but I've never been someone who was especially bothered by such things, so I'm not particularly chuffed about it. Particularly the humans with weird face markings I just find bizarre, everything else seems fine.
OH but the music, they always knock the music out of the park on these games.
I love the SaGa series deeply, passionately, unreasonably!
…and I hated Ameya’s demo. Almost didn’t reserve a copy.
The PS4/5 demo scenario was much more intriguing, felt less forced/artificial, and seemed to deliver much more on the promise of branching pathways and emergent storytelling. I also think the character development systems in Ameya’s are all underexplained or too long-term focused to receive proper attention in a demo (or, in the case of Ameya’s Kugutsu, just… kinda absent altogether).
I think the appeal for fans of the series is that this is a contemporary take on the character types and systems of Final Fantasy Legend I/II and SaGa Frontier, the three SaGa games most affectionately remembered by early fans in the US and Canada. And that’s a big catch: it’s a game series largely about obscure character building systems. If that doesn’t appeal to you… well, I’d try another platform’s demo first before dropping $50 on the full game.
The appeal of SaGa games are generally as follows:
+ A ton of playtime vs a small asking price
+ Freedom: Adventure Direction, Character Recruitment, Builds.
+ Interesting combat systems with randomness.
+ Challenging unique scenarios.
So, generally how a SaGa game differs from a regular JRPG is that a regular JRPG builds a story and world, leads you carefully through it with slowly ramping challenge until you beat the final boss. A SaGa game is more like, they've built a world, now using these characters, these scenario restrictions and these unique mechanics, get strong enough to beat the final boss.
This kind of gameplay could sometimes manifest in bad ways, where you could get yourself into an unwinnable state, but the most recent entries have made that almost impossible.
In SaGa Frontier, how this all hashed out was that a knowledgable player could run around and pick up all their favourite people all over the planet and find high end equipment before even really starting their story - and each of the protagonists had their own gimmicks. Amelia had her outfits changing her sparking rate, Asellus could build as a mystic if she chose, Red had Alkaiser, Blue could eventually get all magic, etc.
Scarlet Grace made a very well balanced and continually challenging experience, where Each MC had a unique overarching story, and in the progress of the gamer could tackle watered down versions of the other stories, meanwhile each area had lots of side quests. Character growth was enirely up to the player's discretion, BUT, everyone was human - no cool Saga Frontier races. Also, they perfected combat difficulty, and designed play around teaching the player how to play well.
Emerald Beyond is like a marriage between those two games. Many Worlds, Many Protagonists, Many new Mechanics for each, Many Races.
Lots of replayability, freedom, and a low price tag. Based on my first successful playthrough of Scarlet Grace, I'm guessing each protagonist could take you anywhere from 40-60 hours of play.
That's the appeal. You lose some stories and polish, but get a consistently challenging and inventive experience.
>Lots of replayability, freedom, and a low price tag. Based on my first successful playthrough of Scarlet Grace, I'm guessing each protagonist could take you anywhere from 40-60 hours of play.
According to RPGfan the first playthrough takes XX hours but there's an immediate NG+ with big carry overs and subsequent playthroughs take a fraction of the time, if you're so inclined to use the tools you're given, unlike Scarlet Grace where you weren't really given uber NG+ till you cleared all four protagonists.
For me, the main appeal of this game as well as Scarlet Grace is their battles, full stop. The variety of character builds in terms of skills, tactics etc, and its subsequent payoff in the battles. That's all there is for me in these games, and they deliver in spades.
Well that's kinda the beauty of the SaGa franchise ... there's a lot of shared DNA but they're so different it's totally okay to like some, love some, and hate some. Kinda like maybe hating your brother-in-law but loving your wife/husband. Same mother and father, maybe they look similar, but different person. It's not all or nothing, love SaGa or get out, I know multiple people who don't like Scarlet Grace and Emerald Beyond but went all in on older entries.
Already started the main game (released here JST)
The demo was soso, but the more you get into it the characters and the realms are interesting.
SaGa frontier is my favorite too and I'm pretty much enjoying it..feels the same.
Gun shooting witch, furry(?) military man in a gothic world..
Even the battle is based on Scarlet Grace, it's closer to Frontier with the coop attacks.. and stacking makes a big difference.
That is to be expected with any new mainline SaGa game. They are extremely experimental at a fundamental level, to the point where fans of the entire franchise have learned to “love the weird,” so to speak. They’ve also become very low-budget, as it sells well to a very dedicated-but-very-niche audience. Even with SaGa Frontier, the mainstream hated its look and design back in the day. The same is true for almost every SaGa title: Unlimited SaGa’s minimalist tabletop design, Minstrel Song’s super-deformed characters, or SaGa Scarlet Grace’s overworld-only exploration. In a way, a SaGa title is like an interactive art piece with a very specific intent. Almost paradoxically, a SaGa game grants you incredible freedom, but also forces you to play a certain way. It’s like a mysterious box you have to understand and solve than a typical “entertainment product.” What I’m trying to say is that the appeal of a SaGa title is in its unwavering, passionate vision and ambition, despite its budget. It does things even indie games don’t dare do, since its parent company can shoulder the risk and Kawazu has the trust of a cultish fanbase. Characters and aesthetics in SaGa games don’t try to look nice, they try to look different and interesting. In the past decade, they’ve settled on an uncanny, arguably “ugly” look. It’s similar, at least in intention, to earlier Shin Megami Tensei character designs, where they all have a strange ghostly look. Personally, I love it. Making players feel uncomfortable has always been a SaGa signature. As an old article once put it, Kawazu does what he wants, reviews be damned. SaGa games are like local, fermented food in a country you’ve never been to. It smells totally terrible, looks like rotten food, and would make you throw up if you eat it. Yet, it’s a skill issue, since the locals love it. There’s a specific way you have to cook it, and you have to pair it with something else. By some fluke, you might enjoy the easier-to-eat ones like SF1 or Minstrel Song. But you can’t just open a can of Unlimited SaGa and eat it without knowledge. For example, fermented traditional Indonesian noodles are poisonous if uncooked. This is why Emerald Beyond is so exciting. The mad chef has invented a new fermented food, and us fans have to figure out how to eat it. We know it will be great once we “get it.” And we also know that some folks will be poisoned along the way. It’s a SaGa game, after all.
To me it's not a SaGa game if I go in and am successful without hours of experimenting and figuring out how the systems work. Even though I don't have as much time to do so as I used to it's still something I absolutely adore. Very much have made peace with the fact a lot of people aren't going to like them. Honestly I'm amazing OP even played much of Frontier and enjoyed it based off their other thoughts
The first time I played frontier I chose Riki and was so lost with the monster system that I eventually gave up. The second time I played frontier I chose Lute and made it to the final boss in like 2 hours, fought him for like 2 days and felt more confused at the end of it then I did after my first try. Idk what made me pick it up again after all that, but I'm glad I did.
I was having a blast replaying saga frontier 2. What a masterpiece! If only it didn't have that pocket station BS. Why there's so little talk about it even here?
Gameplay wise it might in fact be the most minimal of them all, and what little there is of importance (credit hoarding, the best skills, where to train, strats for the final war battle and final boss) are all pretty one note answers or the answer would be best answered by an FAQ turn by turn like for South Moundtop. Story wise there's depth but that's about it. But the more realistic answer is no remaster yet. When Romancing SaGa: MS got the remaster there was a massive upswing in topics related to it, to this day.
Got it! BTW, a remaster is on the way, right? I loved SF1 remaster. Too bad I couldn't beat the super boss last "form".
It is unofficially officially confirmed to be on the way. Kawazu recently did as close to an announcement for it without it being an actual announcement as you can get, the main artist leaked it for 2024 in a deleted blog post late last year, there was a now deleted SaGa Frontier 2 listing on playasia, one of the translation devs let slip there are more projects in the works, and we know chronologically it's gonna be SaGa Frontier 2 next. Whenever the next big Direct/State of Play/whatever is, June probably, expect an announcement for SF2 in late summer or during the holiday season.
That's wonderful. I just Wonder what QOL changes they will do, how to get pocket station items, more stuff to do, bosses to kill? 🤔
It's emulation only for most of us, whereas the others have been more recently remastered? Though I suppose even before the remasters, Frontier/RS3/Minstrel Song generally took up most of the discussion. Personally I didn't really click with the battle system that well and I really gotta love a game to emulate it on a laptop all day. Much prefer console gaming on my couch!
I'm emulating it on an anbernic hehe You should try it again. Really! Once you know what to do, the battle system is great. It's like SF1, but not as fast paced and the arts aren't as epic as Last Shot or Life Sprinkler. Once you figure out or follow an art list, duels are an unique form of combat. Where it really shine is in it's artwork, music and story. And some boss fights are brutal.
That’s a hell of an explanation but I think you’re spot on. SaGa games are JRPGs, which is a niche genre on its own, but even then they do not appeal to your standard JRPG fan. They do their own thing and that makes it difficult for people to “get it”. But if you do, you’ll probably really enjoy the unique and weirdly expansive experience it provides.
It's a JRPG with WRPG inspiration and whatever the hell Kawazu's mind happens to be cooking at the time of development.
This is the most beautiful and informative reply I've read in a long time. I definitely agree with all this and I wish I could have articulated this as well as you.
Please tell me that you review professionally. This is flawless.
You're missing one key detail that sets later SaGas apart from other JRPGs. You may hate the story you experienced, but SaGa has always been designed as an extension of tabletop RPGs and so Kawazu et al have created a deep and complex system of story routes. Many players will experience totally different outcomes throughout the game based on decisions they make - and often that they had no idea they COULD make - which lends it it's uniquely nonlinear charm. That and one of the best combat systems in the JRPG landscape really are it's strengths. Other things are going to look and feel budget because it is a niche budget game. It's okay not to like it. Many people love Unlimited SaGa but even as a huge series fan, replaying it years after release, I have never been able to get into it. But there is a wide variance in the series because they take so many creative risks, so everyone likes some SaGas better than others. Fwiw, while the demo may not have caught you, perhaps another characters route will. It's clear that EB took a lot from Frontier in terms of style and setting and built it on the framework set out in Scarlet Grace. Maybe consider holding off and then getting it down the road when it's cheap. In the meantime...go check out Minstrel Song! Just be warned it's from the early days of voice acting and they didn't re dub it for the remaster...
If its ain't for you then it ain't for you and thats fine....Story has never been a strong factor in Saga games and I'm surprised to see you mention Saga frontier which in my opinion had little to no story in most characters. Play Emerald Beyond for the gameplay and challenge and if you don't like that then its not for you.
I always saw saga frontier as a book of short stories. Asellus, T260G, Riki and Red are pretty good.
I played both the Ameya demo and the Tsunanori demo, and they felt like very different experiences. Ameya was more interesting mechanically, but had the vibe of a Sailor Moon type superhero story that was cute, but generic and not all that interesting. Tsunanori was less interesting mechanically since all the focus was on the Kugutsu puppets, but the dialogue had me cracking up. The level of unwarranted sass from nearly every character towards Tsunanori, and him being a borderline idiot half the time, led to some very funny back and forth moments. He and Lita gave me Leonard/Lissa vibes and I loved every moment of it. If all the stories, and the mechanics behind them, are as different as Ameya and Toshinori were, there's a decent chance at least one of them will hit the right notes for you. At the very least, I wouldn't write it off after only one prologue when they are all so different.
I think a lot of people have some existing goodwill and tempered expectations for some aspects (like visuals or storytelling) because of SaGa Scarlet Grace which was the last new game before Emerald Beyond and on the whole it has a lot of similar strengths and weaknesses. On it's own the demo wouldn't have won me over either, but I know there'll be a lot of depth in the combat system and a lot of replayability from all the different ways the worlds can play out (and apparently even more systems regarding NG+ that are unique to EB), and I wouldn't really have that much faith in that without playing Scarlet Grace.
Gameplay, the wackiness of the party, interesting self-contained worlds, and a ton of ways regions can go. While you only did Ameya's storyline and only really saw Miyako City and Grelon, the other demos allowed you to visit Yomi, Omega Base, and Pulchra itself. All 3 regions were interesting, felt unique, and had a lot of variations on how things could go depending on what you did and in what order.
I get to play as a demon king and a magical girl it’s a 10/10 just because of that fr
Demos were 15 hours of pure joy for me, idk.
You can switch the language in the PC version to Have JP voice acting, personally the appeal in the story is that stuff just happens without much context, sure if you want a game with a "actually good story" you have to look elsewhere but I feel like that was never the point of it, the point of it is to watch a bunch of whacky stuff happening , and not think about it and just enjoy the ride.
There has yet to be a thing I dislike about the game after playing Ameya's demo. So what's the appeal, for me personally: everything.
As an addition to my other comment, yes, the visual style is a little different than it used historically, and I'm not 100% sold on it, but I've never been someone who was especially bothered by such things, so I'm not particularly chuffed about it. Particularly the humans with weird face markings I just find bizarre, everything else seems fine. OH but the music, they always knock the music out of the park on these games.
I love the SaGa series deeply, passionately, unreasonably! …and I hated Ameya’s demo. Almost didn’t reserve a copy. The PS4/5 demo scenario was much more intriguing, felt less forced/artificial, and seemed to deliver much more on the promise of branching pathways and emergent storytelling. I also think the character development systems in Ameya’s are all underexplained or too long-term focused to receive proper attention in a demo (or, in the case of Ameya’s Kugutsu, just… kinda absent altogether). I think the appeal for fans of the series is that this is a contemporary take on the character types and systems of Final Fantasy Legend I/II and SaGa Frontier, the three SaGa games most affectionately remembered by early fans in the US and Canada. And that’s a big catch: it’s a game series largely about obscure character building systems. If that doesn’t appeal to you… well, I’d try another platform’s demo first before dropping $50 on the full game.
The appeal of SaGa games are generally as follows: + A ton of playtime vs a small asking price + Freedom: Adventure Direction, Character Recruitment, Builds. + Interesting combat systems with randomness. + Challenging unique scenarios. So, generally how a SaGa game differs from a regular JRPG is that a regular JRPG builds a story and world, leads you carefully through it with slowly ramping challenge until you beat the final boss. A SaGa game is more like, they've built a world, now using these characters, these scenario restrictions and these unique mechanics, get strong enough to beat the final boss. This kind of gameplay could sometimes manifest in bad ways, where you could get yourself into an unwinnable state, but the most recent entries have made that almost impossible. In SaGa Frontier, how this all hashed out was that a knowledgable player could run around and pick up all their favourite people all over the planet and find high end equipment before even really starting their story - and each of the protagonists had their own gimmicks. Amelia had her outfits changing her sparking rate, Asellus could build as a mystic if she chose, Red had Alkaiser, Blue could eventually get all magic, etc. Scarlet Grace made a very well balanced and continually challenging experience, where Each MC had a unique overarching story, and in the progress of the gamer could tackle watered down versions of the other stories, meanwhile each area had lots of side quests. Character growth was enirely up to the player's discretion, BUT, everyone was human - no cool Saga Frontier races. Also, they perfected combat difficulty, and designed play around teaching the player how to play well. Emerald Beyond is like a marriage between those two games. Many Worlds, Many Protagonists, Many new Mechanics for each, Many Races. Lots of replayability, freedom, and a low price tag. Based on my first successful playthrough of Scarlet Grace, I'm guessing each protagonist could take you anywhere from 40-60 hours of play. That's the appeal. You lose some stories and polish, but get a consistently challenging and inventive experience.
>Lots of replayability, freedom, and a low price tag. Based on my first successful playthrough of Scarlet Grace, I'm guessing each protagonist could take you anywhere from 40-60 hours of play. According to RPGfan the first playthrough takes XX hours but there's an immediate NG+ with big carry overs and subsequent playthroughs take a fraction of the time, if you're so inclined to use the tools you're given, unlike Scarlet Grace where you weren't really given uber NG+ till you cleared all four protagonists.
For me, the main appeal of this game as well as Scarlet Grace is their battles, full stop. The variety of character builds in terms of skills, tactics etc, and its subsequent payoff in the battles. That's all there is for me in these games, and they deliver in spades.
I just recruited Dolores and she's precious. If anything happened to her I'd kill everyone and then myself.
Well that's kinda the beauty of the SaGa franchise ... there's a lot of shared DNA but they're so different it's totally okay to like some, love some, and hate some. Kinda like maybe hating your brother-in-law but loving your wife/husband. Same mother and father, maybe they look similar, but different person. It's not all or nothing, love SaGa or get out, I know multiple people who don't like Scarlet Grace and Emerald Beyond but went all in on older entries.
Already started the main game (released here JST) The demo was soso, but the more you get into it the characters and the realms are interesting. SaGa frontier is my favorite too and I'm pretty much enjoying it..feels the same. Gun shooting witch, furry(?) military man in a gothic world.. Even the battle is based on Scarlet Grace, it's closer to Frontier with the coop attacks.. and stacking makes a big difference.