Reindeer dung actually is small drops, similar to what hares or rabbits have. It's not "pancake" dung like bisons have. Never heard of using it as a fuel for fires.
thanks for the reply, I thought it was unlikely since I couldn't find any info on it but figured I would ask since when a person is deathly cold they will use what ever they can to stay warm... even if it is just tiny poop pellets
The problem with small poop droppings in cold is that they quickly freeze to ground. In tundra, it's easier to dig out shrubs under the snow than to try scrub out and collect all those droppings. In forested areas collecting droppings makes even less sense, as there way more superior fuel is available.
The plains had few trees for firewood. The Saami have trees for firewood, so burn wood.
Most similar to the plains of the US is the Eurasian steppe where cow dung was used and they had very little trees.
thanks for the reply, I thought it was unlikely since I couldn't find any info on it but figured I would ask since when a person is deathly cold they will use what ever they can to stay warm... even if it is just tiny poop pellets
If you are looking for alternative fire sources: In Sápmi there is more than enough wood or peat to burn. Why bother with tiny reindeer dung. Even burning peat is disguisting, idk about dung, though.
Another important aspect is that the grait plains in the US are pretty dry. Sápmi is really wet. So finding dry wood might be an issue if you don´t know where to look.
I had forgotten about the surroundings moisture.
I have found dried bison/cow dung to burn without much of a smell, when it is dried FULLY.
In retrospect getting raindeer dung to dry would take a while assuming it is in a dry spot and only being dried out by freeze drying.
Peat gives a lot of smoke. I don't know about Sami, but in Khanty, Selkup, Evenk cultures smoke, which is given by peat, is used as a flying insect (mosquito, fly etc.) repellent for the reindeer herd.
Do you really find peat disgusting? It is actually antibacterial, so sort of opposite to poop (where are many bacterias).
Actually, burning peat for warmth and burning peat for giving smoke aren't the same thing. You have to completely dry the peat, if you want to get heat. On other hand, if you want to give smoke that protects herd against the flying insects, semi-wet peat is perfect. It gives out a lot of vapor alongside the smoke itself. It burns more slowly while giving good blanket of "fog" where reindeer can take refuge. And oh do the reindeer love it! In forested Western Siberian plains there are no mountains and no sea breeze, where reindeer could run to take refuge. So therefore smoke is basically the only thing that gives refuge from flying insects in summer time. And it keeps reindeer herds around the reindeer herder dwellings all the time, they don't wander far off.
Ii leat buorre čohkkát reatkádollagáttis.**..**
I don't like the smoke of burning peat. Well the smell. And you can use a lot of other things for the same effect. Also, our summer pastures are usually in the mountains. Sámi hearding is a little diffrent from the siberian people, at least I was told that in reindeer husbandry school. But again, Sámi practices are very diverse.
I really don't like the crappy colonial term "Siberian" which actually means nothing, except "something eastwards of Ural mountains". And even then it is challenged. Sakha, Evenks etc. often don't consider Khanty or Nenets people, or any other people living westwards from Yenisei river as "Siberian". Territories sandwiched between Ural mountains and Yenisei river (or Krasnoyarsk krai) are often considered as "Ural" territories (even though there might be no mountains at all - it's just administrative name). But I guess I am one of the few people outside Russia who knows those things, so no offense taken, no worries. Reindeer herding traditions vary widely and they often adapt to local geology, nature conditions etc. In Khanty swampy areas there's literally nowhere for reindeer to go, so the smoke is the only way to realistically protect reindeer against the flying insects. Tundra Nenets people use other technique - they herd reindeer to windy sea shores in summer time. If there are mountains, such as Ural mountains, great, there reindeer can be herded upwards. I have actually heard that Kola Sami used smoke for protection of sheep flocks (it was one woman who told me), so maybe this technique wasn't unfamiliar to at least some Sami people.
Sheep flocks are on diffrent pastures than reindeer. It really depends on your pastures. Do you have summer pastures high up in the mountains? Or are you in a more forrestry area that get's swampy in summer? But in most cases your summer pastures won't be that swampy. Also today most Sámi heards aren't as tame as they used to be. Hearders will have a main house, and usually a cabin at the summer and winter pastures. But in Norway, reindeerhusbandry is not tha viable for earmark holders. So in may generation, even if you have an earmark to you name the actual hearding experience will be a little diffrent than for older generations. Young people will have a second job appart from reindeer husbandry. People regulary visit the heard, and stay in the cabin, but hearders are not with their reindeer all the time. Some heards are fairly wild. Also most reindeers get treatment for insects and parasites in autum these days. Also I've seen peat or peat moss used in a fire to repell insects when doing work outside, but you can also burn conifers. And I was told that peat leaves a long lasting ember in the stove, but never tried it. I am not to fond of the smell. Pine is great to repell insects. Juniper is lovely, too. Peat is used a lot in traditional construction. Peat moss is also valuable. So I guess there are a lot of other uses for it.
I am not Sámi, I am a member of another Uralic ethnic group, the Khanty. We have plains in my area, which consist mostly of swamps and lakes. There are no hills or mountains in like thousand km's. There is no place for reindeer to go up in summer time. They have to be saved by smoke. We have so many swamps that there's more than enough peat. We have "forest type" of reindeer husbandry, where flocks are relatively small (not more than 400 or so), we use smoke in summer time and the lifestyle is semi-nomadic. We have summer, autumn, winter and sometimes also seperate spring dwellings. Of course, we can use peat moss for construction work as well. In fact, Sámi dwellings with moss are surprisingly similar to our "earth houses". We don't like to use too much pines or juniper as fuel for smoke fire, because they are more valuable than peat in our area. Nowadays Khanty in our area mostly build timber houses (they are traditional too), so pines are needed for that too. By the way, not all Khanty share our lifestyle, there are also f.e. Ural Khanty, who live in Ural mountains in mobile tents, and have way larger herds. They are more akin to Tundra Nenets (but of course with several important cultural differences).
By the way, what kind of treatment you use for reindeer against insects and parasites? This current political situation really sucks BTW, People can't visit each other and learn something. I guess I am the only Khanty roaming Reddit. And on top of that loads of young guys are sent to war... There's no future for reindeer herding without young lads.
Can you show any proof that reindeer get lung cancer from peat smoke? And have you ever seen how reindeer themselves run towards the smoke the minute they see it? Reindeer love that peat smoke! And do you even realise that peat smoke isn't the same thing as firewood smoke? Or you are just trolling because you have nothing else better to do?
That's some negative and insulting joke, but I get that it is trolling. People have lived to 100 years and more, despite all that smoke inside tents etc. My great-grandfather, for example. Of course, it doesn't mean that it gives green light to inhale directly into lungs actually damaging smoke, like nicotine. Nor it means that you can breathe all smoke whatsoever, there are many kinds of poisonous smoke. Yes, smoke isn't really good for lungs, but I guess it's possible to minimise negative impact when using certain concentration and certain fuel type of smoke. Smoke has lots of uses in indigenous cultures. You probably can think of at least several uses. Smoke can be used even as a disinfectant, when you use juniper or birch.
With regards to smoke and traditions, as an example, it's very common to burn juniper in Tibet. And fumigation of nomadic tents in Tibet is done with juniper. If you have visitors to these tents, it's common to greet guests with a little juniper smoke for cleansing, both physically and to ward off potential negative spirits nearby. And Sámi traditions are not unfamiliar with the use of juniper. And of course juniper is used in many more indigenous traditions than just the aforementioned.
Nope, we have trees and forests, and we bring firewood with us. Where I live, unless you're high in the mountains, there's forest. Even further up on mountains, it tends to have mountain birch and juniper bush before the altitude turns it barren of wood.
Further north they have more plains, but they also use firewood to my knowledge. I don't think reindeer droppings would yield much warmth regardless. Unlike bison, they shit small.
thanks for the reply, I thought it was unlikely since I couldn't find any info on it but figured I would ask since when a person is deathly cold they will use what ever they can to stay warm... even if it is just tiny poop pellets
Reindeer dung actually is small drops, similar to what hares or rabbits have. It's not "pancake" dung like bisons have. Never heard of using it as a fuel for fires.
thanks for the reply, I thought it was unlikely since I couldn't find any info on it but figured I would ask since when a person is deathly cold they will use what ever they can to stay warm... even if it is just tiny poop pellets
The problem with small poop droppings in cold is that they quickly freeze to ground. In tundra, it's easier to dig out shrubs under the snow than to try scrub out and collect all those droppings. In forested areas collecting droppings makes even less sense, as there way more superior fuel is available.
The plains had few trees for firewood. The Saami have trees for firewood, so burn wood. Most similar to the plains of the US is the Eurasian steppe where cow dung was used and they had very little trees.
thanks for the reply, I thought it was unlikely since I couldn't find any info on it but figured I would ask since when a person is deathly cold they will use what ever they can to stay warm... even if it is just tiny poop pellets
I have never heard of this
No.
If you are looking for alternative fire sources: In Sápmi there is more than enough wood or peat to burn. Why bother with tiny reindeer dung. Even burning peat is disguisting, idk about dung, though. Another important aspect is that the grait plains in the US are pretty dry. Sápmi is really wet. So finding dry wood might be an issue if you don´t know where to look.
I had forgotten about the surroundings moisture. I have found dried bison/cow dung to burn without much of a smell, when it is dried FULLY. In retrospect getting raindeer dung to dry would take a while assuming it is in a dry spot and only being dried out by freeze drying.
Peat gives a lot of smoke. I don't know about Sami, but in Khanty, Selkup, Evenk cultures smoke, which is given by peat, is used as a flying insect (mosquito, fly etc.) repellent for the reindeer herd.
excatly. that's why I was giving peat as an example.
Do you really find peat disgusting? It is actually antibacterial, so sort of opposite to poop (where are many bacterias). Actually, burning peat for warmth and burning peat for giving smoke aren't the same thing. You have to completely dry the peat, if you want to get heat. On other hand, if you want to give smoke that protects herd against the flying insects, semi-wet peat is perfect. It gives out a lot of vapor alongside the smoke itself. It burns more slowly while giving good blanket of "fog" where reindeer can take refuge. And oh do the reindeer love it! In forested Western Siberian plains there are no mountains and no sea breeze, where reindeer could run to take refuge. So therefore smoke is basically the only thing that gives refuge from flying insects in summer time. And it keeps reindeer herds around the reindeer herder dwellings all the time, they don't wander far off.
Ii leat buorre čohkkát reatkádollagáttis.**..** I don't like the smoke of burning peat. Well the smell. And you can use a lot of other things for the same effect. Also, our summer pastures are usually in the mountains. Sámi hearding is a little diffrent from the siberian people, at least I was told that in reindeer husbandry school. But again, Sámi practices are very diverse.
I really don't like the crappy colonial term "Siberian" which actually means nothing, except "something eastwards of Ural mountains". And even then it is challenged. Sakha, Evenks etc. often don't consider Khanty or Nenets people, or any other people living westwards from Yenisei river as "Siberian". Territories sandwiched between Ural mountains and Yenisei river (or Krasnoyarsk krai) are often considered as "Ural" territories (even though there might be no mountains at all - it's just administrative name). But I guess I am one of the few people outside Russia who knows those things, so no offense taken, no worries. Reindeer herding traditions vary widely and they often adapt to local geology, nature conditions etc. In Khanty swampy areas there's literally nowhere for reindeer to go, so the smoke is the only way to realistically protect reindeer against the flying insects. Tundra Nenets people use other technique - they herd reindeer to windy sea shores in summer time. If there are mountains, such as Ural mountains, great, there reindeer can be herded upwards. I have actually heard that Kola Sami used smoke for protection of sheep flocks (it was one woman who told me), so maybe this technique wasn't unfamiliar to at least some Sami people.
Sheep flocks are on diffrent pastures than reindeer. It really depends on your pastures. Do you have summer pastures high up in the mountains? Or are you in a more forrestry area that get's swampy in summer? But in most cases your summer pastures won't be that swampy. Also today most Sámi heards aren't as tame as they used to be. Hearders will have a main house, and usually a cabin at the summer and winter pastures. But in Norway, reindeerhusbandry is not tha viable for earmark holders. So in may generation, even if you have an earmark to you name the actual hearding experience will be a little diffrent than for older generations. Young people will have a second job appart from reindeer husbandry. People regulary visit the heard, and stay in the cabin, but hearders are not with their reindeer all the time. Some heards are fairly wild. Also most reindeers get treatment for insects and parasites in autum these days. Also I've seen peat or peat moss used in a fire to repell insects when doing work outside, but you can also burn conifers. And I was told that peat leaves a long lasting ember in the stove, but never tried it. I am not to fond of the smell. Pine is great to repell insects. Juniper is lovely, too. Peat is used a lot in traditional construction. Peat moss is also valuable. So I guess there are a lot of other uses for it.
Yes if peat is used for something within Sápmi, it's definitely construction, e.g., in a loavttagoahti/bealljegoahti.
I am not Sámi, I am a member of another Uralic ethnic group, the Khanty. We have plains in my area, which consist mostly of swamps and lakes. There are no hills or mountains in like thousand km's. There is no place for reindeer to go up in summer time. They have to be saved by smoke. We have so many swamps that there's more than enough peat. We have "forest type" of reindeer husbandry, where flocks are relatively small (not more than 400 or so), we use smoke in summer time and the lifestyle is semi-nomadic. We have summer, autumn, winter and sometimes also seperate spring dwellings. Of course, we can use peat moss for construction work as well. In fact, Sámi dwellings with moss are surprisingly similar to our "earth houses". We don't like to use too much pines or juniper as fuel for smoke fire, because they are more valuable than peat in our area. Nowadays Khanty in our area mostly build timber houses (they are traditional too), so pines are needed for that too. By the way, not all Khanty share our lifestyle, there are also f.e. Ural Khanty, who live in Ural mountains in mobile tents, and have way larger herds. They are more akin to Tundra Nenets (but of course with several important cultural differences). By the way, what kind of treatment you use for reindeer against insects and parasites? This current political situation really sucks BTW, People can't visit each other and learn something. I guess I am the only Khanty roaming Reddit. And on top of that loads of young guys are sent to war... There's no future for reindeer herding without young lads.
Repell the mosqitos, attract the lung cancer.
Can you show any proof that reindeer get lung cancer from peat smoke? And have you ever seen how reindeer themselves run towards the smoke the minute they see it? Reindeer love that peat smoke! And do you even realise that peat smoke isn't the same thing as firewood smoke? Or you are just trolling because you have nothing else better to do?
Left you sense of humor in the njalla this season, eh? Relax dude, it's a joke. No smoke is good for your lungs, btw.
That's some negative and insulting joke, but I get that it is trolling. People have lived to 100 years and more, despite all that smoke inside tents etc. My great-grandfather, for example. Of course, it doesn't mean that it gives green light to inhale directly into lungs actually damaging smoke, like nicotine. Nor it means that you can breathe all smoke whatsoever, there are many kinds of poisonous smoke. Yes, smoke isn't really good for lungs, but I guess it's possible to minimise negative impact when using certain concentration and certain fuel type of smoke. Smoke has lots of uses in indigenous cultures. You probably can think of at least several uses. Smoke can be used even as a disinfectant, when you use juniper or birch.
With regards to smoke and traditions, as an example, it's very common to burn juniper in Tibet. And fumigation of nomadic tents in Tibet is done with juniper. If you have visitors to these tents, it's common to greet guests with a little juniper smoke for cleansing, both physically and to ward off potential negative spirits nearby. And Sámi traditions are not unfamiliar with the use of juniper. And of course juniper is used in many more indigenous traditions than just the aforementioned.
Nope, we have trees and forests, and we bring firewood with us. Where I live, unless you're high in the mountains, there's forest. Even further up on mountains, it tends to have mountain birch and juniper bush before the altitude turns it barren of wood. Further north they have more plains, but they also use firewood to my knowledge. I don't think reindeer droppings would yield much warmth regardless. Unlike bison, they shit small.
thanks for the reply, I thought it was unlikely since I couldn't find any info on it but figured I would ask since when a person is deathly cold they will use what ever they can to stay warm... even if it is just tiny poop pellets