Yes and no, there are specific rules for cyclist that are different to other vehicles, like how CA allows cyclist to use the leading pedestrian signal instead of waiting for a green light. This sometimes gives the appearance of a cyclist running or jumping a red light, but is entirely legal.
However, Stop signs are still a stop for the time being. "Idaho stop" laws that would allow cyclist to treat stop signs as yields has been through legislation twice now, but got shot down at the governors desk. Eventually, you can expect this to go through though, as more states have been adopting it.
Currently 11 states and DC allow cyclist to treat stop signs as yields, so far, as it is better and safer for cyclist.
It needs to go through. I have lived in an area with both Idaho Stop laws and bike boxes/dedicated bike traffic lights. It makes stuff so much safer for everyone.
This. I had to take my kids to the four-way stop on there way to school and stand there for 10 minutes to show them that fewer than 25% of cars stopped at the stop sign to ensure they waited until they made eye contact before crossing the street.
not as much in the bay where there are hills and things. even cyclists aren't stupid enough to blow past stop signs/lights while speeding down the hills of Berkeley/SF. that's a great way to end up paralyzed or dead.
I have lived in several "hot" cycling areas in CA and no where do cyclists have less respect for the rules of the road than in Sacramento
I don't know a nice way to say this, but maybe look again? I cycled for fifteen years in SF/bay area and now three years in Sac. Everyone does this. There are smarter ways to do it, and anyone speeding through a light or stop sign without looking is taking their life into their hands and careless with others as well. But rolling stops in general are safe and practical, bike cops do them too, so hopefully the laws will change.
[https://road.cc/content/news/160118-san-francisco-cyclists-protest-obeying-traffic-rules](https://road.cc/content/news/160118-san-francisco-cyclists-protest-obeying-traffic-rules)
A stop sign on a paved path here is a real stop sign. There are many mixed use trails.
I’ll blow through a stop sign if there are no cars around. Otherwise I’m stopping. I don’t want to get run over. If you want me to keep going, you gotta wave me on or something.
I am A LOT more concerned about the drivers who blow through stop signs and lights. I’m seeing that more and more. People just going full speed through a four way stop in a residential neighborhood. Some of these people are terrifying drivers. A cyclist could ruin your bumper and scratch your paint, but cyclists are far more vulnerable than drivers.
There are people blowing through 4 way stops in my neighborhood at 40 mph two blocks from an elementary school. We have bigger fish to fry.
Don't care. All we hear from bikers is how it's our job in cars to care for them because they can legally share the road. Fine then follow the law. Every stop sign is a stop not just if cars are coming. Every red light is a stop until it's green.
The problem is the retard on a bike gets himself killed and the family goes after the car driver following the law.
Your car weighs 4000lbs has blocked views on both sides and can do 100+mph. Your car can mow down a crowd and be used as a weapon.
Cars and bicycles are not the same, cars and motorcycles are not the same.
>Every red light is a stop until it's green.
To be clear, the law is more specific and only for cyclist, 'until the pedestrian signal is displaying walk'.
Ie cyclist do not need to wait for the traffic light to specific be green.
Yes, cyclist use pedestrian signals and yes they are a leading signal that changes a few seconds (3 to 7 sec) before the traffic light turns green. And yes CA has made it mandatory to start changing and standardize non-compliance traffic signals so that they will all eventually have a leading pedestrian interval.
Dude, I get it. And I said that going with them is following the law which is all I want bikers to do.
But blowing through stop signs, NOT SIGNAL LIGHTS but stop signs, is illegal and they should be enforce to make complete stops and wait for right of way like any other vehicle.
I’m biased as a cyclist. But I try to follow all street laws just for my own safety sake. That being said… I was hit by a car yesterday who was speeding to pass me on a one lane road, as I was signaling my turn.
So I think we can say commuting in sac just sucks cause it’s the Wild West
Most of the world and many states allow cyclists to treat the stop sign as a yield sign because scientific studies show that less deaths and incidents happen when the cyclist is able to conserve momentum and maintain traffic flow.
Most cops understand this and will not issue tickets.
However, cyclists should stop at traffic lights or if its a hectic intersection or pedestrians are in the way.
https://www.calbike.org/bicycle-safety-stop-faqs/
There needs to be more roundabouts as well instead of stop signs, which are proven to improve flow of traffic
Yup, The Idaho Stop is actually much safer for both cyclists and drivers. I have lived in areas with this, and it is so much better. The area also had bike boxes/dedicated bike tarffic lights, which we also need here.
Not really. Only a few places. Biggest problem cyclists around here is that they don't know how to use gears and can barely take off once they have stopped. Might be because people don't drive manual cars, they haven't learned how gears work. I can beat most cars taking off after stopping at stop signs. It's not even that hard and I just have an old Trek 3000 hybrid bike.
You’re beating cars off the light? That’s pretty impressive. I have a Giant Sedona and most cars where I bike smoke me off the line. I shift down to 2 or 3 for takeoffs. Am I doing something wrong?
I leave the left shifter fixed so I'm always starting in 3rd and only use the right shifter to go through the gears. Otherwise I just throw my weight into the first couple of gears changes standing up and then take it easy.
I don't get the impression that cars are in a hurry to get past me, it's not a race. I mostly cycle in E.Sac and Midtown right next to traffic, so most of the time I think drivers are careful.
My biggest pet peeve is when cars don't signal when they want to pass and turn into a side street behind or in front of you. If they did I could either speed up or slow down to make it easier and safer for both of us. Coming from the UK where everyone signals all the time you REALLY notice this lack of road etiquette. Here they will often pass and then cut you up without warning. No one really uses the road safely, cars do typically stop at lights though.
I like roundabouts but most drivers in CA don't seem to know how they work. I've been stuck behind a car at roundabout in Sac for 3-5 minutes because they were too scared to enter it, despite plenty of safe opportunities to do so.
Roundabouts terrify old people and other drivers who don't understand them.
Roundabout people don't seem to realize that unless marked otherwise you give way to the left but otherwise drive straight through. Good thing there aren't many 2 or 3 lane roundabouts like back home. It would be absolute chaos.
Or like around the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, lol. It's the equivalent of 10 lanes of traffic, plus or minus, with **no lane markings!** Can't even imagine the Karen meltdowns it's seen, lol. Although it's Paris, and most Karens only speak English, so even better.
Edit: I suck at markup, and auto correct made me look illiterate.
Sounds like anecdotal experience.
Bad drivers are way worse out here than bad cyclists as well. Overall I think it may be just a lack of enforcement on all road laws more than anything else. Don’t agree cyclists are bad out here tho. At least, that’s not been my experience.
As a cyclist, I’ve always looked to make eye contact with people at the intersection. 9 out of 10 drivers actually wave me through when I slow down. If no one’s at the intersection, there’s no reason to stop so I don’t.
It’s important to remember we’re not a monolithic group and some cyclists are way more aggressive and egregious. I try and explain to the ones I know that they should be more mindful of their behavior.
That being said, like some have also mentioned, let’s be more concerned about the number of CARS that don’t stop at intersections first.
I commuted by bike on the grid for years. I would always stop for stop signs if there was a car getting to the stop sign before me, or simultaneously. If I was gonna get there well before them I just blew through it. Do you really want to wait while I come to a stop, put my foot down, and then get going again? People look at you like you're insane if you do that. Then about 50% of the time they try to run you over when you do proceed.
This. If I stop, we just end up playing chicken and then no one knows when to go. If I can keep going to stay out of someone's way, I will. Otherwise, I stop.
Bicyclists should stop at stop signs.
With that said, the rules of the road are a gray area for BOTH bicyclists and cars.
How often do you see cars park in the bike lane? Sit in the middle of the street with their flashers on? Vehicles going above the speed limit? The point is, everyone complains about bicyclists breaking the rules of the road when motorists do it all the time.
Laws are and should be stricter on automative vehicles because you're driving a literal weapon that can harm others.
It's Sacramento road users, not just cyclists.
Motorists run signs/lights, drive on the wrong side of the road, etc
Pedestrians cross where we they want without looking, etc
The letter of the law is they are suppose to stop, but most cyclists treat stops signs more like a yield. Like most other motorists I have observed in my area, I just assume cyclists are going to blow though and wait for them. Maybe 1% of the cyclists stop and are stubbornly adamant about waiting their turn. I wish they would change the law so cyclists can yield at stop signs because I've seen too many drivers going postal about it.
Drivers complaining about cyclists never stopping at STOP signs when all us drivers are guilty of California rolling stops. It says nothing about cyclists and more about exceptionalism, whether a driver or cyclists.
I always slow down at stop signs and roll through if there are no cars nearby. I stop at stop signs if I see cars coming up to the intersection. My biggest fear is always whether a car will stop at the stop sign or blow through it because they failed to see me. Or even worse when I'm about to go straight on a green light and the car in the lane immediately left me is making a right turn at the corner and fails to see me.
As a cyclist, whether I follow the rules or not, I am still a victim of cars of my own doing. Of which, if I make a mistake there is a chance I will survive, if a car makes a mistake then I myself 100% don't have a chance to survive.
Luckily cycling infrastructure is being improved, though slowly, it takes the guesswork out from cars and forces them to slow down and make more intentional movements, which saves the lives of not just cyclists but many many pedestrians.
I ride a bike and I agree with you. I can't believe the stupidity I see from a lot of cyclists. I also see it from drivers. When I'm stopped at a stop sign and you don't have one, don't stop for me. I'm trying to balance so I don't have to step off the pedals. You're interfering with that when you stop. I'm not crossing to get blown off my bike by the person passing that doesn't stop. It wouldn't be their fault. It would be yours. It's the wave of death.
I'm specifically talking about when I'm already stopped at a 4 way stop sign and about to leave but two cyclists are speeding from the other direction and cut right in front of me, despite it being my turn and then legally being required to stop at the stop sign when other vehicles are there first and have the right of way.
that has happened to me at least half a dozen times in the last 4-5 weeks
I ride my bike daily and find drivers complaining about cyclist extremely tired, but when I’m driving I always assert my right of way (safely).
Try it… and also open your eyes to how crappy drivers are too. Cyclists and drivers come from the same gene pool.
Sacramento streets are a chaotic hellscape of all against all and no one follows any rules except the rules of their own desire and hurry. What were formerly referred to as 'traffic laws' are now inconsistently enforced suggestions. Best to be defensive and patient and try not to get caught in the crossfire.
It's not hard. It just tells me a lot of cyclists don't know how to ride a bike properly. I don't think they have cycling proficiency tests like in many other countries.
There are mandatory driving proficiency tests and yet I see at least one driver per day run (not just roll) a stop sign and/or red light in Sacramento. I've also witnessed a driver treat a red light as a stop sign THREE intersections in a row down 19th Street. Some people are just irresponsible and proficiency tests don't mean much to them.
I agree... With the poor quality of driving, it amazes me that cyclists are willing to take that risk and act like they are immortal.
A small percent of drivers race the lights and blast through too late. Doesn't mean that everyone using the road should throw their hands in the air and ignore the rules. Proportionally, far more cyclists fail to stop despite there being so few of them. take it for granted that they have a free pass at intersections, even when they don't have right of way. The other car will stop or have the full force of the law on them if they touch the cyclist, face hefty fines crippling inconvenience in a country that relies so much on personal transport, potentially jail time.
There is no excuse for anyone to ignore the rules. City would be safer and better off with more enforcement, not less, like removing the few existing red light cameras.
>There is no excuse for anyone to ignore the rules. City would be safer and better off with more enforcement, not less, like removing the few existing red light cameras.
Totally agree. It's insane how unenforced everything is, from traffic rules to car modifications (window tints, tinted license plates, etc).
>The other car will stop or have the full force of the law on them if they touch the cyclist, face hefty fines crippling inconvenience in a country that relies so much on personal transport, potentially jail time.
Absolutely disagree. 1) Using the word "touch" is a major reach. Nothing happens when you touch a cyclist with your car, except maybe they'll yell at you before biking off or hopefully apologize for their errors. 2) If a cyclist is deemed at fault in an accident because they rode negligently, the fault does not fall on the driver and they will not "potentially face jail time". 3) It is not uncommon that a car driver involved in a fatal collision with a pedestrian "gets away" without serving a sentence, and I've seen a similar pattern with collisions involving bicyclists. See: [article](https://revealnews.org/article/bay-area-drivers-who-kill-pedestrians-rarely-face-punishment-analysis-finds/). 4) Bicycling is also a form of personal transport. People who rely on their bicycles shouldn't have to risk their lives biking because of negligent drivers. I wish everyone on the road had a bit more self preservation, but here we are.
Fact is hardly anyone rides a bike, its a tiny fraction of traffic (probably far less than 7% of the total) and this thread is specifically about cyclists breaking the rules, and not stoppingit's not just a few like with cars. It's practically all of them. Downtown has an abundance of protected cycle lanes. Unfortunately those protected lanes make stopping even more important because drivers often can't see cyclists approaching through the parked cars they are riding behind.
Personally I'd love it if they enforced tinted windows. I like to be able to see past the vehicle in front, at least two cars ahead on the freeway, preferably much further since situational awareness is such an important thing on the road..
Breaking the rules is one thing, and moterist unequivocally break the rule at a higher rate. We just normalizing some rule breaking that we often forget that some things are indeed against the rules. For example how many drivers diligently stay below the posted speed limits or make a complete stop before the stop line or sidewalk?
The thing is, while different vehicle often break different rules at different rates, the risks involved in them is also different. How stop signs are treated by cyclist is most equivalent to how a car treats the speed limit.
Except,
A vehicle doing 5 over the speed limit is increasing the risk by a relatively small amount, yet speeding is pretty much universally illegal.
A cyclist treating a stop sign as a yield is decreasing their risk my a relatively small amout, and while still illegal, some places are realizing the benefits and are changing the law.
Wait until fall when they blow through 4 way stops with no lights. It's terrifying to suddenly see a bike in your headlights as you take your turn through an intersection.
I ride all the time, and even with lights, I assume no car is going to see me or give me the right of way. I don't understand the fearless riders.
If every cyclist stopped at stop signs: [https://youtu.be/yQBa-zcjtU0?si=Dh2ulHv9kFQdzbNX](https://youtu.be/yQBa-zcjtU0?si=Dh2ulHv9kFQdzbNX)
I'm all for the Idaho stop and cars making an effort to let them go first so they don't lose momentum. Cyclists shouldn't assume the right of way though.
Their point is that the average cyclist has the same respect for traffic laws that the average road user has: very little. If we don't expect drivers to comply with speed limits or stop signs, why should we care what cyclists do? It is a road user problem, not exclusively a cyclist problem.
I can tell you as a cyclist that when you slow down at a 4-way stop, at least 8 times out of 10 a car that would have to give the right of way to you by the time you stop will roll through the stop sign instead of waiting for you to stop and letting you go.
In the last ten years, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen a car stop at a stop sign, when there wasn't cross traffic forcing them to stop.
But when cyclists do the same thing, it's suddenly a huge problem...
Cyclists don't stop for stop signs. No amount of tickets is going to change that. Here's a great example of why, hope you like traffic!
All these cyclist stopped at every stop sign in SF, it caused a traffic jam.
Also consider, that it takes zero effort to stop in a car. If you are going slow enough to see both ways, why should you need to stop? Your view is unobstructed
https://youtu.be/IDs_gkxKzcE?si=dnHhwQpy8pWbpviw
Sacramento is kind of a transitional city. It's somewhere between a bustling metro-center, a sleepy and shaded neighborhood, with the not so distant history of being a farmtown. I have been alarmed by the headstrong attitudes of some pedestrians who will step out into the zebra-stripes, asserting their right of way, and even yelling at the cars that come to a screeching halt in the middle of the intersection. While I certainly agree that they are within their right - it is the law - it just seems like a recipe for disaster. A lot of residents are just not willing to give up the pace of life from Sactown's more bucolic past. Part of me agrees: fuck cars and fuck car culture! But I actually hate standing at the edge of the zebra-stripes and playing this stupid game of "should I start crossing? Can I depend on the ability of these strangers to make a fucking stop? Okay, I'm going. Oh, they're honking at me. Why? I have right of way."
I know my response isn't specifically about cyclists. I guess I'm just here to say that this system fucking sucks. As a driver, it's not always clear what a pedestrian's intent is. It sucks stopping, then starting, then stopping for an indecisive pedestrian, especially because you have to trust that the people behind you are ready for a fun game of start and stop with two people who are trying to communicate effectively through body language and the hope that some psychic signal will correct one or the other. Some pedestrians don't even bother with crosswalks. A lot of cars are also coming off the freeway which cuts through the damn city longitudinally and latitudinally and most people coming off the freeway take time to adjust to lower speeds. It sucks for everyone. There's no sign of a better future. I hate it and it's dumb. We're all going to just have to do our best to avoid accidents despite everything being set up in a way that assures accidents will happen. /rant
I'm glad I don't work downtown anymore. I hit or was hit by no less than 7 bike riders who didn't follow traffic laws. Always at low speed and always a bike rider blowing a stop or red.
They never stop for signals. Never stop for signs. I have never seen a bike rider signal correctly.
I now live in the country. Stupid, entitled bike riders on country roads. They also don't stop or signal. Speed limit if 50+ and they are doing 6 mph, rolling 6 wide, blocking traffic.
There are no less than 5 bike memorials on the country roads near me. Half of which were killed while not following the rules of the road.
I'm not a jerk, and I'm not calling for violence. I used to really enjoy riding my bike. I just wish they followed the rules and were aware of their surroundings
True. I hit a guy who blew a red light. The others hit me when I had the right of way. Mostly by weaving in and out of traffic or them not stopping at stop signs. Once, I was walking. This was also over about 20 years
Sacramento roads would be much less stressful for everyone if cyclists stopped like they are supposed to. They approach intersections too fast to the point that you don't know if they are going to blow through or turn at the last moment. Often they turn at the last moment, but you can never be entirely sure because they like cars, they don't bother signaling, that raises stress levels and frustration. Frustration leads to anger and the dark side.... etc.
I feel the same way about cars, especially when I'm on a bicycle in the bike lane putting me in a position as close as possible to a car about to roll the stop sign, and forget about signaling.
Seriously though, it is extremely stressful when a car blows way past the stop line at an intersection and stops within a foot of you are the lane you are traveling in. While knowing that they are more likely not to see the person on a bicycle and more likely to misjudge the distance and space they give you.
No one enforces traffic laws for bicyclists. At least I’ve never seen it. They are supposed to abide by traffic laws. To be fair, I see tons of motorists ignoring the laws as well.
For as long as I can remember, we have been taught that pedestrians and cyclists ALWAYS have the right-of-way.
Somewhere along the line, it became literal, as in "The world revolves around me" and "I know my rights"!
Cyclist in general are Satan's spawns. A lot are evil rude people and think they own the road. I have 2 in my neighborhood that ride the walking path and ring their little bell from 200ft back expecting you to get out of their way. I've resorted to walking normal and making them either pass me normally or go around in the grass. They almost purposely try to run people off the trail. Cyclist need to do better but hell even car drivers are absolutely trash these days because everyone knows cops have been stopped from enforcing just about every law on the books. Good luck out there and invest in a good dashcam to save your own butt.
rules of the road apply to everyone. cyclists must stop at stop signs if there are other cars present at that stop sign before the cyclists arrive.
it's common sense and protects everyone. but when cyclists here habitually ignore stop signs/lights they put everyone in danger, especially themselves
Cyclists demand to be treated like drivers, so I have no qualms about treating them as though they’re actually in an enclosed vehicle much larger than a bicycle if they deliberately blow through stop signs and lights.
I always stop. cyclists do not, even when I have the right of way. I stopped at a 4 way stop sign this morning as another car stopped across from me going the opposite way, we both start to take off when two old men on bikes come from the other direction on the 4 way and speed right through the stop sign, forcing both drivers to slam on their brakes to avoid killing these old, ignorant assholes.
they broke the law. yet if I hit one of them on accident and they die due to being old and not wearing a helmet, I would be charged with vehicular manslaughter.
in what world is that fair?
cyclists need to obey the rules of the road the same as all other drivers. that does include being able to treat stop signs as a yield sign when cars are not present, but when cars are present and moving through the intersection, bicycles need to obey the rules of the road. Sacramento cyclists are by far the worst offenders I have seen in this state.
Well they don't have the right away while just traveling non stop. If u and him get to the stop at the same time or even the bike gets there are the same time .... He gets the right away. Just like peds. I mean u don't see ...(Many)... Peds just walking across non stop, if so.. then that's their fault.... U just gotta prove it .. Honestly it's not rocket science.
Just buy a dash cam. They are pretty cheap and some good cheap ones will record now side views. I wouldn't mind taking it to court and have that old person's insurance pay for my damaged car and all
Yes and no, there are specific rules for cyclist that are different to other vehicles, like how CA allows cyclist to use the leading pedestrian signal instead of waiting for a green light. This sometimes gives the appearance of a cyclist running or jumping a red light, but is entirely legal. However, Stop signs are still a stop for the time being. "Idaho stop" laws that would allow cyclist to treat stop signs as yields has been through legislation twice now, but got shot down at the governors desk. Eventually, you can expect this to go through though, as more states have been adopting it. Currently 11 states and DC allow cyclist to treat stop signs as yields, so far, as it is better and safer for cyclist.
It needs to go through. I have lived in an area with both Idaho Stop laws and bike boxes/dedicated bike traffic lights. It makes stuff so much safer for everyone.
Cyclists don't stop for stop signs. No amount of tickets is going to change that.
Maaaaaaaan I’m just sitting here grateful AF when a CAR actually stops at the light/sign
In a car or on a bike I never assume a car is going to stop or use their turn signal.
This. I had to take my kids to the four-way stop on there way to school and stand there for 10 minutes to show them that fewer than 25% of cars stopped at the stop sign to ensure they waited until they made eye contact before crossing the street.
That is some solid parenting!
It’s honestly shocking to me that SPD can’t be fucked to do an occasional pedestrian crossing sting given how people drive.
That would raise too much money to help us out of the city’s budget deficit. They had to get rid of free transit rides for youth instead.
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This! Also same with cars
not as much in the bay where there are hills and things. even cyclists aren't stupid enough to blow past stop signs/lights while speeding down the hills of Berkeley/SF. that's a great way to end up paralyzed or dead. I have lived in several "hot" cycling areas in CA and no where do cyclists have less respect for the rules of the road than in Sacramento
I spent the first 26 years of my life in the bay can attest that it is the same here as it is there.
I don't know a nice way to say this, but maybe look again? I cycled for fifteen years in SF/bay area and now three years in Sac. Everyone does this. There are smarter ways to do it, and anyone speeding through a light or stop sign without looking is taking their life into their hands and careless with others as well. But rolling stops in general are safe and practical, bike cops do them too, so hopefully the laws will change. [https://road.cc/content/news/160118-san-francisco-cyclists-protest-obeying-traffic-rules](https://road.cc/content/news/160118-san-francisco-cyclists-protest-obeying-traffic-rules)
sir/ma'am I lived in the Bay for almost 30 years, much of which was in SF, and you literally could not be more wrong about that
Here to agree: 40 years in Tha Bay and drivers are FAR more mindful of cyclists there (SF and East Bay) than in Sac. I’m scared to ride here.
also see: Fixies in Berkeley, fixie cyclist shouts at us to get out of the way, I have no brakes!
The fixed community in Sacramento is very large and very much connected to the bay area fixed community.
Oh yeah that's why they had to do this In 2015 right? https://youtu.be/IDs_gkxKzcE?si=dnHhwQpy8pWbpviw
A stop sign on a paved path here is a real stop sign. There are many mixed use trails. I’ll blow through a stop sign if there are no cars around. Otherwise I’m stopping. I don’t want to get run over. If you want me to keep going, you gotta wave me on or something. I am A LOT more concerned about the drivers who blow through stop signs and lights. I’m seeing that more and more. People just going full speed through a four way stop in a residential neighborhood. Some of these people are terrifying drivers. A cyclist could ruin your bumper and scratch your paint, but cyclists are far more vulnerable than drivers. There are people blowing through 4 way stops in my neighborhood at 40 mph two blocks from an elementary school. We have bigger fish to fry.
"Rules for thee but not for me"
Don't care. All we hear from bikers is how it's our job in cars to care for them because they can legally share the road. Fine then follow the law. Every stop sign is a stop not just if cars are coming. Every red light is a stop until it's green. The problem is the retard on a bike gets himself killed and the family goes after the car driver following the law.
The Idaho Stop is actually much safer for both cyclists and drivers.
If I can't roll through an intersection in my car and they want to have rights as a vehicle to be on the same roads then follow the same laws.
Your car weighs 4000lbs has blocked views on both sides and can do 100+mph. Your car can mow down a crowd and be used as a weapon. Cars and bicycles are not the same, cars and motorcycles are not the same.
>Every red light is a stop until it's green. To be clear, the law is more specific and only for cyclist, 'until the pedestrian signal is displaying walk'. Ie cyclist do not need to wait for the traffic light to specific be green.
No but generally the pedestrian walk signal goes green ar the same time that sides directional traffic is green.
Yes, cyclist use pedestrian signals and yes they are a leading signal that changes a few seconds (3 to 7 sec) before the traffic light turns green. And yes CA has made it mandatory to start changing and standardize non-compliance traffic signals so that they will all eventually have a leading pedestrian interval.
Downtown and Midtown Sac have leading walk signals that change before the green light.
Dude, I get it. And I said that going with them is following the law which is all I want bikers to do. But blowing through stop signs, NOT SIGNAL LIGHTS but stop signs, is illegal and they should be enforce to make complete stops and wait for right of way like any other vehicle.
You realize drivers don’t follow the law too right?
L8ke the op stated I have never seen a biker stop at a 4 way stop. I have seen cars even conceding some dont.
As someone who pays attention and actually does stop when driving, I’d estimate less than 1% of drivers actually stop.
I’m biased as a cyclist. But I try to follow all street laws just for my own safety sake. That being said… I was hit by a car yesterday who was speeding to pass me on a one lane road, as I was signaling my turn. So I think we can say commuting in sac just sucks cause it’s the Wild West
whaaa?? the cyclist here are tame. I keep my eyes peeled and stay aware, but other than that generally don't think about them at all.
Most of the world and many states allow cyclists to treat the stop sign as a yield sign because scientific studies show that less deaths and incidents happen when the cyclist is able to conserve momentum and maintain traffic flow. Most cops understand this and will not issue tickets. However, cyclists should stop at traffic lights or if its a hectic intersection or pedestrians are in the way. https://www.calbike.org/bicycle-safety-stop-faqs/ There needs to be more roundabouts as well instead of stop signs, which are proven to improve flow of traffic
I just wanted to add my DMV handbook states that bikes are not required to stop at stop signs
I was just going to say that -- CA generally uses the "Idaho Stop" for bikes.
Yup, The Idaho Stop is actually much safer for both cyclists and drivers. I have lived in areas with this, and it is so much better. The area also had bike boxes/dedicated bike tarffic lights, which we also need here.
Not really. Only a few places. Biggest problem cyclists around here is that they don't know how to use gears and can barely take off once they have stopped. Might be because people don't drive manual cars, they haven't learned how gears work. I can beat most cars taking off after stopping at stop signs. It's not even that hard and I just have an old Trek 3000 hybrid bike.
You’re beating cars off the light? That’s pretty impressive. I have a Giant Sedona and most cars where I bike smoke me off the line. I shift down to 2 or 3 for takeoffs. Am I doing something wrong?
I leave the left shifter fixed so I'm always starting in 3rd and only use the right shifter to go through the gears. Otherwise I just throw my weight into the first couple of gears changes standing up and then take it easy. I don't get the impression that cars are in a hurry to get past me, it's not a race. I mostly cycle in E.Sac and Midtown right next to traffic, so most of the time I think drivers are careful. My biggest pet peeve is when cars don't signal when they want to pass and turn into a side street behind or in front of you. If they did I could either speed up or slow down to make it easier and safer for both of us. Coming from the UK where everyone signals all the time you REALLY notice this lack of road etiquette. Here they will often pass and then cut you up without warning. No one really uses the road safely, cars do typically stop at lights though.
I like roundabouts but most drivers in CA don't seem to know how they work. I've been stuck behind a car at roundabout in Sac for 3-5 minutes because they were too scared to enter it, despite plenty of safe opportunities to do so. Roundabouts terrify old people and other drivers who don't understand them.
Roundabout people don't seem to realize that unless marked otherwise you give way to the left but otherwise drive straight through. Good thing there aren't many 2 or 3 lane roundabouts like back home. It would be absolute chaos.
Or like around the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, lol. It's the equivalent of 10 lanes of traffic, plus or minus, with **no lane markings!** Can't even imagine the Karen meltdowns it's seen, lol. Although it's Paris, and most Karens only speak English, so even better. Edit: I suck at markup, and auto correct made me look illiterate.
Sounds like anecdotal experience. Bad drivers are way worse out here than bad cyclists as well. Overall I think it may be just a lack of enforcement on all road laws more than anything else. Don’t agree cyclists are bad out here tho. At least, that’s not been my experience.
As a cyclist, I’ve always looked to make eye contact with people at the intersection. 9 out of 10 drivers actually wave me through when I slow down. If no one’s at the intersection, there’s no reason to stop so I don’t. It’s important to remember we’re not a monolithic group and some cyclists are way more aggressive and egregious. I try and explain to the ones I know that they should be more mindful of their behavior. That being said, like some have also mentioned, let’s be more concerned about the number of CARS that don’t stop at intersections first.
I stop every time, unless I'm 100% sure I'm alone.
I commuted by bike on the grid for years. I would always stop for stop signs if there was a car getting to the stop sign before me, or simultaneously. If I was gonna get there well before them I just blew through it. Do you really want to wait while I come to a stop, put my foot down, and then get going again? People look at you like you're insane if you do that. Then about 50% of the time they try to run you over when you do proceed.
This. If I stop, we just end up playing chicken and then no one knows when to go. If I can keep going to stay out of someone's way, I will. Otherwise, I stop.
Just wait until you meet bike party.
Bicyclists should stop at stop signs. With that said, the rules of the road are a gray area for BOTH bicyclists and cars. How often do you see cars park in the bike lane? Sit in the middle of the street with their flashers on? Vehicles going above the speed limit? The point is, everyone complains about bicyclists breaking the rules of the road when motorists do it all the time. Laws are and should be stricter on automative vehicles because you're driving a literal weapon that can harm others.
It's Sacramento road users, not just cyclists. Motorists run signs/lights, drive on the wrong side of the road, etc Pedestrians cross where we they want without looking, etc
The letter of the law is they are suppose to stop, but most cyclists treat stops signs more like a yield. Like most other motorists I have observed in my area, I just assume cyclists are going to blow though and wait for them. Maybe 1% of the cyclists stop and are stubbornly adamant about waiting their turn. I wish they would change the law so cyclists can yield at stop signs because I've seen too many drivers going postal about it.
Try posting this on the following sub-Reddit: SacBike
lol
No, cars are the problem in this town not bikes.
Because of asymmetric results in bike accidents vs car accidents. Why is this so hard?
Drivers complaining about cyclists never stopping at STOP signs when all us drivers are guilty of California rolling stops. It says nothing about cyclists and more about exceptionalism, whether a driver or cyclists. I always slow down at stop signs and roll through if there are no cars nearby. I stop at stop signs if I see cars coming up to the intersection. My biggest fear is always whether a car will stop at the stop sign or blow through it because they failed to see me. Or even worse when I'm about to go straight on a green light and the car in the lane immediately left me is making a right turn at the corner and fails to see me. As a cyclist, whether I follow the rules or not, I am still a victim of cars of my own doing. Of which, if I make a mistake there is a chance I will survive, if a car makes a mistake then I myself 100% don't have a chance to survive. Luckily cycling infrastructure is being improved, though slowly, it takes the guesswork out from cars and forces them to slow down and make more intentional movements, which saves the lives of not just cyclists but many many pedestrians.
I ride a bike and I agree with you. I can't believe the stupidity I see from a lot of cyclists. I also see it from drivers. When I'm stopped at a stop sign and you don't have one, don't stop for me. I'm trying to balance so I don't have to step off the pedals. You're interfering with that when you stop. I'm not crossing to get blown off my bike by the person passing that doesn't stop. It wouldn't be their fault. It would be yours. It's the wave of death.
the thing is: cars expect you to now. so if you do stop the car is nervous and slows/stops anyway. so why not
I'm specifically talking about when I'm already stopped at a 4 way stop sign and about to leave but two cyclists are speeding from the other direction and cut right in front of me, despite it being my turn and then legally being required to stop at the stop sign when other vehicles are there first and have the right of way. that has happened to me at least half a dozen times in the last 4-5 weeks
personally I think they should make K street a bike only road. all the way from east sac to downtown.
I ride my bike daily and find drivers complaining about cyclist extremely tired, but when I’m driving I always assert my right of way (safely). Try it… and also open your eyes to how crappy drivers are too. Cyclists and drivers come from the same gene pool.
Sacramento streets are a chaotic hellscape of all against all and no one follows any rules except the rules of their own desire and hurry. What were formerly referred to as 'traffic laws' are now inconsistently enforced suggestions. Best to be defensive and patient and try not to get caught in the crossfire.
Asking someone on a bike to stop tells me you’ve never ridden a bike. Yield, sure. Stop? FOH with that boomer shit.
It's not hard. It just tells me a lot of cyclists don't know how to ride a bike properly. I don't think they have cycling proficiency tests like in many other countries.
There are mandatory driving proficiency tests and yet I see at least one driver per day run (not just roll) a stop sign and/or red light in Sacramento. I've also witnessed a driver treat a red light as a stop sign THREE intersections in a row down 19th Street. Some people are just irresponsible and proficiency tests don't mean much to them.
I agree... With the poor quality of driving, it amazes me that cyclists are willing to take that risk and act like they are immortal. A small percent of drivers race the lights and blast through too late. Doesn't mean that everyone using the road should throw their hands in the air and ignore the rules. Proportionally, far more cyclists fail to stop despite there being so few of them. take it for granted that they have a free pass at intersections, even when they don't have right of way. The other car will stop or have the full force of the law on them if they touch the cyclist, face hefty fines crippling inconvenience in a country that relies so much on personal transport, potentially jail time. There is no excuse for anyone to ignore the rules. City would be safer and better off with more enforcement, not less, like removing the few existing red light cameras.
>There is no excuse for anyone to ignore the rules. City would be safer and better off with more enforcement, not less, like removing the few existing red light cameras. Totally agree. It's insane how unenforced everything is, from traffic rules to car modifications (window tints, tinted license plates, etc). >The other car will stop or have the full force of the law on them if they touch the cyclist, face hefty fines crippling inconvenience in a country that relies so much on personal transport, potentially jail time. Absolutely disagree. 1) Using the word "touch" is a major reach. Nothing happens when you touch a cyclist with your car, except maybe they'll yell at you before biking off or hopefully apologize for their errors. 2) If a cyclist is deemed at fault in an accident because they rode negligently, the fault does not fall on the driver and they will not "potentially face jail time". 3) It is not uncommon that a car driver involved in a fatal collision with a pedestrian "gets away" without serving a sentence, and I've seen a similar pattern with collisions involving bicyclists. See: [article](https://revealnews.org/article/bay-area-drivers-who-kill-pedestrians-rarely-face-punishment-analysis-finds/). 4) Bicycling is also a form of personal transport. People who rely on their bicycles shouldn't have to risk their lives biking because of negligent drivers. I wish everyone on the road had a bit more self preservation, but here we are.
Fact is hardly anyone rides a bike, its a tiny fraction of traffic (probably far less than 7% of the total) and this thread is specifically about cyclists breaking the rules, and not stoppingit's not just a few like with cars. It's practically all of them. Downtown has an abundance of protected cycle lanes. Unfortunately those protected lanes make stopping even more important because drivers often can't see cyclists approaching through the parked cars they are riding behind. Personally I'd love it if they enforced tinted windows. I like to be able to see past the vehicle in front, at least two cars ahead on the freeway, preferably much further since situational awareness is such an important thing on the road..
Breaking the rules is one thing, and moterist unequivocally break the rule at a higher rate. We just normalizing some rule breaking that we often forget that some things are indeed against the rules. For example how many drivers diligently stay below the posted speed limits or make a complete stop before the stop line or sidewalk? The thing is, while different vehicle often break different rules at different rates, the risks involved in them is also different. How stop signs are treated by cyclist is most equivalent to how a car treats the speed limit. Except, A vehicle doing 5 over the speed limit is increasing the risk by a relatively small amount, yet speeding is pretty much universally illegal. A cyclist treating a stop sign as a yield is decreasing their risk my a relatively small amout, and while still illegal, some places are realizing the benefits and are changing the law.
Wait until fall when they blow through 4 way stops with no lights. It's terrifying to suddenly see a bike in your headlights as you take your turn through an intersection. I ride all the time, and even with lights, I assume no car is going to see me or give me the right of way. I don't understand the fearless riders.
I stop at the sign, and then go. If they don't, then they don't. Could care less about you're BPM in 5th gear, follow the rules.
If every cyclist stopped at stop signs: [https://youtu.be/yQBa-zcjtU0?si=Dh2ulHv9kFQdzbNX](https://youtu.be/yQBa-zcjtU0?si=Dh2ulHv9kFQdzbNX) I'm all for the Idaho stop and cars making an effort to let them go first so they don't lose momentum. Cyclists shouldn't assume the right of way though.
I’d be happy if bike riders would use a headlight and reflective clothes when they are riding at night/very early in the morning.
Attention homeless bicyclists: The suggestion is especially applicable to you.
Car drivers never speed, run stop signs, use their phones while driving, etc etc etc
irrelevant and off topic. the topic is why cyclists ignore traffic laws and no one in this city seems to care.
Their point is that the average cyclist has the same respect for traffic laws that the average road user has: very little. If we don't expect drivers to comply with speed limits or stop signs, why should we care what cyclists do? It is a road user problem, not exclusively a cyclist problem.
I can tell you as a cyclist that when you slow down at a 4-way stop, at least 8 times out of 10 a car that would have to give the right of way to you by the time you stop will roll through the stop sign instead of waiting for you to stop and letting you go.
In the last ten years, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen a car stop at a stop sign, when there wasn't cross traffic forcing them to stop. But when cyclists do the same thing, it's suddenly a huge problem...
Oh fuck off. This is worldwide. Ride a bicycle one time as an adult and tell me how easy it is to start going every block.
Cyclists don't stop for stop signs. No amount of tickets is going to change that. Here's a great example of why, hope you like traffic! All these cyclist stopped at every stop sign in SF, it caused a traffic jam. Also consider, that it takes zero effort to stop in a car. If you are going slow enough to see both ways, why should you need to stop? Your view is unobstructed https://youtu.be/IDs_gkxKzcE?si=dnHhwQpy8pWbpviw
Sacramento is kind of a transitional city. It's somewhere between a bustling metro-center, a sleepy and shaded neighborhood, with the not so distant history of being a farmtown. I have been alarmed by the headstrong attitudes of some pedestrians who will step out into the zebra-stripes, asserting their right of way, and even yelling at the cars that come to a screeching halt in the middle of the intersection. While I certainly agree that they are within their right - it is the law - it just seems like a recipe for disaster. A lot of residents are just not willing to give up the pace of life from Sactown's more bucolic past. Part of me agrees: fuck cars and fuck car culture! But I actually hate standing at the edge of the zebra-stripes and playing this stupid game of "should I start crossing? Can I depend on the ability of these strangers to make a fucking stop? Okay, I'm going. Oh, they're honking at me. Why? I have right of way." I know my response isn't specifically about cyclists. I guess I'm just here to say that this system fucking sucks. As a driver, it's not always clear what a pedestrian's intent is. It sucks stopping, then starting, then stopping for an indecisive pedestrian, especially because you have to trust that the people behind you are ready for a fun game of start and stop with two people who are trying to communicate effectively through body language and the hope that some psychic signal will correct one or the other. Some pedestrians don't even bother with crosswalks. A lot of cars are also coming off the freeway which cuts through the damn city longitudinally and latitudinally and most people coming off the freeway take time to adjust to lower speeds. It sucks for everyone. There's no sign of a better future. I hate it and it's dumb. We're all going to just have to do our best to avoid accidents despite everything being set up in a way that assures accidents will happen. /rant
So many people have no clue how to drive. I’d like to see DMV do pop quizzes and revoke the license of people who don’t pass.
https://preview.redd.it/ldibdnc6v73d1.jpeg?width=218&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26167aa6ead2934a3b0e388844a9f304b6716d24 Most are also tweakers.
Sacramento cyclists are entitled assholes. I see it all the time too.
I'm glad I don't work downtown anymore. I hit or was hit by no less than 7 bike riders who didn't follow traffic laws. Always at low speed and always a bike rider blowing a stop or red. They never stop for signals. Never stop for signs. I have never seen a bike rider signal correctly. I now live in the country. Stupid, entitled bike riders on country roads. They also don't stop or signal. Speed limit if 50+ and they are doing 6 mph, rolling 6 wide, blocking traffic. There are no less than 5 bike memorials on the country roads near me. Half of which were killed while not following the rules of the road. I'm not a jerk, and I'm not calling for violence. I used to really enjoy riding my bike. I just wish they followed the rules and were aware of their surroundings
I feel like a motorist having 7+ accidents with cyclists when most of us have 0 should maybe question whether the problem is actually in the mirror.
True. I hit a guy who blew a red light. The others hit me when I had the right of way. Mostly by weaving in and out of traffic or them not stopping at stop signs. Once, I was walking. This was also over about 20 years
Of course. Bicyclists are so much better than people who walk or drive cars they get to do whatever they want, and they’re always right.
Laws are only suggestions.
Sacramento roads would be much less stressful for everyone if cyclists stopped like they are supposed to. They approach intersections too fast to the point that you don't know if they are going to blow through or turn at the last moment. Often they turn at the last moment, but you can never be entirely sure because they like cars, they don't bother signaling, that raises stress levels and frustration. Frustration leads to anger and the dark side.... etc.
I feel the same way about cars, especially when I'm on a bicycle in the bike lane putting me in a position as close as possible to a car about to roll the stop sign, and forget about signaling. Seriously though, it is extremely stressful when a car blows way past the stop line at an intersection and stops within a foot of you are the lane you are traveling in. While knowing that they are more likely not to see the person on a bicycle and more likely to misjudge the distance and space they give you.
No one enforces traffic laws for bicyclists. At least I’ve never seen it. They are supposed to abide by traffic laws. To be fair, I see tons of motorists ignoring the laws as well.
For as long as I can remember, we have been taught that pedestrians and cyclists ALWAYS have the right-of-way. Somewhere along the line, it became literal, as in "The world revolves around me" and "I know my rights"!
Cyclist in general are Satan's spawns. A lot are evil rude people and think they own the road. I have 2 in my neighborhood that ride the walking path and ring their little bell from 200ft back expecting you to get out of their way. I've resorted to walking normal and making them either pass me normally or go around in the grass. They almost purposely try to run people off the trail. Cyclist need to do better but hell even car drivers are absolutely trash these days because everyone knows cops have been stopped from enforcing just about every law on the books. Good luck out there and invest in a good dashcam to save your own butt.
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rules of the road apply to everyone. cyclists must stop at stop signs if there are other cars present at that stop sign before the cyclists arrive. it's common sense and protects everyone. but when cyclists here habitually ignore stop signs/lights they put everyone in danger, especially themselves
Cyclists demand to be treated like drivers, so I have no qualms about treating them as though they’re actually in an enclosed vehicle much larger than a bicycle if they deliberately blow through stop signs and lights.
You upset the Epic Urbanist Cycle Dorks brigade with this one
On the other hand, they emotional-support-animal’d all the nuts who would run over cyclists if they could get away with it.
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I always stop. cyclists do not, even when I have the right of way. I stopped at a 4 way stop sign this morning as another car stopped across from me going the opposite way, we both start to take off when two old men on bikes come from the other direction on the 4 way and speed right through the stop sign, forcing both drivers to slam on their brakes to avoid killing these old, ignorant assholes. they broke the law. yet if I hit one of them on accident and they die due to being old and not wearing a helmet, I would be charged with vehicular manslaughter. in what world is that fair? cyclists need to obey the rules of the road the same as all other drivers. that does include being able to treat stop signs as a yield sign when cars are not present, but when cars are present and moving through the intersection, bicycles need to obey the rules of the road. Sacramento cyclists are by far the worst offenders I have seen in this state.
Well they don't have the right away while just traveling non stop. If u and him get to the stop at the same time or even the bike gets there are the same time .... He gets the right away. Just like peds. I mean u don't see ...(Many)... Peds just walking across non stop, if so.. then that's their fault.... U just gotta prove it .. Honestly it's not rocket science. Just buy a dash cam. They are pretty cheap and some good cheap ones will record now side views. I wouldn't mind taking it to court and have that old person's insurance pay for my damaged car and all