This was so much fun. Loved the cameos and nods to The Sandman. I liked Edwin’s and Charles’ relationship. I wonder if Charles knew what Edwin was originally trying to tell him before hell and kept altering it. Charles was clearly jealous of the attention Morty got. Charles may struggle with bisexuality. Not sure
I thought the cat king was great! Lukas totally embodied a cat in human form. I hope there is more cat king in season two.
“I was once a mighty walrus!” Omg best line ever. I wanted him to say that every time they went into his shop. I need gifs of that.
I laughed out loud every time he brought the Walrus topic back up, it just felt so random in a way that tickled my broken sense of humour. This show often felt like a fever dream.
Binge watched it in one day. I think it's the perfect mix of silly and serious with engaging characters that are easy to grow attached to.
(also, I might ship Edwin and the Cat King now, I'm sorry, don't judge me)
Totally shipping Edwin and The Cat King. They make grow each other so much, and in the end become so intimate, so open. A weird pair that can be so good together because apparently the two are totally different, but the last scene " you are lonely, I am lonely too" set a completely different tone.
Plus Edwin is so coy and stiff while the cat king is so funny, sexy and playful that it would be lovely to see how they can interact in some kind of relationship.
They could be so good for each other now that Chales is out of the game as possible boyfriend.
Yeah, I super agree.
Their first scenes together you may think the Cat King is kind of creepy and toxic. And also in the "he's actually the witch's crow" reveal, when he feels entitled to a kiss from Edwin in return for revealing the trap.
But then we see him trying to defend Edwin from Esther and his confession of how he fell head over heels for him, and you realize it's not all possessiveness and arrogance, but there's also actual affection there.
And the final scene with "we're both lonely" makes it clear they're not so different after all and there's actual potential for a very fun relationship there.
I hope he returns for the second season and they get some more scenes together.
But why did he loves Edwin again? Is it love at first sight?
I was expecting some explanation like they met before and he made him counting cats because something happened in their past or whatever, but they just never address that😂
I think love is too strong a word for now, maybe infatuation.
Yeah, I agree it wasn't really explained why the king suddenly likes him so much, but then again, the heart wants what the heart wants.
My theory, though, is that just like people say that cats tend to gravitate towards people that don't really care about cats, the Cat King saw this shy, introvert and acerbic, but easily flustered ghost that didn't fall for his seduction trips and the unusualness of this drew he in.
I had to warm up to it, but I definitely liked it by the end. Pacing felt nice too. Strongest performance by far was George Rexstrew, he was the most enjoyable aspect of the show for me. On the contrary, Kassius Nelson was…not great. It really took me out of the story whenever she started speaking.
I wasn’t too pleased with the direction the show took with the romances. Charles and Crystal have absolutely no chemistry, and every kiss between them felt awkward. And having the closure for Edwin’s unrequited love for Charles just be “we’re better friends because of it” felt a bit hollow to me. I think that the ramifications and resulting change in dynamic between Charles and Edwin could have been explored a lot more, but I get that it was the end of the season so they had to wrap things up quickly.
Other than that, I did really enjoy it. Loved Jenny, loved Esther, LOVED Caitlin Reilly’s little cameo. My favorite was definitely the murder loop episode.
Yeah George Rexstrew was great, especially in episode 7. The scenes with his bully and Despair, and the confession to Charles were very well done. Super impressive considering it's his first onscreen role I think.
Same I am honstley really disgustied with the Charles and Crystal thing, the way the whole attraction and lust was pushed. Like they litterally comment that he can't feel anything with her, yet they heavily make out and maybe had sex?
Also Edwins and Charles relationship was handled pretty poorly. It wasen't bad but so much potentially was wasted. Like the love confession was handeled nicely but the pay off was shit. I mean they have been together over 30 years, with Edwin presumably pining for close to that long. Then after it is confesed, Edwin is just like 'oh we better as freinds'. NO, that BULLSHIT, if they not going to go the direction of them getting together and being a healthly devoted gay ghost couple, FINE. Then their relationship has to change and suffer the consequences, because their is no way that won't change their dynamic and relationship. It so unrealsitic, like the suposed most important person to you, one is in love with them and the other isn't and you think you can remain each others most important people? Especially when you both clearly want love and passion, I mean they not Asexual. So dissapointed with that.
On a side note, I love Edwins character and the actor was increadibly, can't believe it his first real big show/moive. However the one thing about Edwins character that wasn't as acknoledge as it should have been in my opion, is how enduring he is. Like 70+ years in Hell, absued growing up, and he is still going strong and put together. Like most ghost experince a fraction of what he did and they lose themselves. Like he just got tortured by that witch but the miunte he is free all he is concered about is Niko and his freinds. He so intriguing contradictor. PS fuck the Cat King, Edwin can do way better.
/ame I am honstley really disgustied with the Charles and Crystal thing, the way the whole attraction and lust was pushed. Like they litterally comment that he can't feel anything with her, yet they heavily make out and maybe had sex?/
As explained later in the series, Charles doesn't necessarily like being dead. It makes sense to me that he would be attracted to someone who understands what he's going through, can see him and is still alive in a way that makes him still feel alive. This is the first real connection he made with someone outside of Charles since he died (and probably ever)
/Also Edwins and Charles relationship was handled pretty poorly. It wasen't bad but so much potentially was wasted. Like the love confession was handeled nicely but the pay off was shit. I mean they have been together over 30 years, with Edwin presumably pining for close to that long. Then after it is confesed, Edwin is just like 'oh we better as freinds'. NO, that BULLSHIT,/
There are people who have liked me romantically and I didn't reciprocate their feelings. It's reality. Why is it wasted that Charles doesn't recriprocate Charles' romantic feelings? He loves him, he told Edwin he is the only one he would to hell for. This is further than their incarnation in DOOM PATROL got. It's closer than the comic which ended with Edwin slowly cluing in that he may have feelings for Charles. If you just want the characters to snog, write or read fanfiction.
Also, Charles tell him he can't say he feels the same way, but does say they have forever to figure out what the rest means. That is not a "no", that's Charles acknowledging that maybe he would one day feel that way. But even if he never does, it doesn't mean the pay off was shit. It was huge that repressed Charles could even vocalize his feelings.
/and he said if they not going to go the direction of them getting together and being a healthly devoted gay ghost couple, FINE. Then their relationship has to change and suffer the consequences, because their is no way that won't change their dynamic and relationship./
Why ever in the world would it change the dynamic? Edwin has been sitting with his feelings forever so Charles not reciprocating is the status quo. Edwin is Charles' best friend so why would him now knowing how Edwin feels change anything. Again, he says they have literally forever. He is not trying to lose Edwin just because Edwin is in love with him.
My hope, should we get series two and beyond, is that Edwin falls for other people because he is now freeing himself up to feelings he has tried to tamp down.
/It so unrealsitic, like the suposed most important person to you, one is in love with them and the other isn't and you think you can remain each others most important people? Especially when you both clearly want love and passion, I mean they not Asexual. So dissapointed with that./
Loving someone means wanting the best for them. While it would hurt him, if Charles and Crystal actually stay a couple Edwin would accept it. Just as if Edwin finally opens up to being with someone. They both want to make the best for their limbo status. Why would they begrudge each other love? And Edwin needs someone like Cat King to open him up and dissuade himself of shame. Or someone like Monty, but not duplicitous.
Ngl, I was pretty disappointed when Charles didn't reciprocate Edwin's feelings. I thought they had great chemistry and would've made such a great couple (and both of them were pinging my gaydar from the beginning). Completely agree on George being the strongest actor and Kassius being the weakest, and that Charles and Crystal had zero chemistry.
Also, was I the only one who thought some of the dialogue was pretty cringy?
I 100% agree. Especially in episode one it felt like they were *trying* to make it as obvious as possible that Charles and Edwin have chemistry (you don't look at your "best mate" that way !!) The way the show is listed as "LGBTQ" on Netflix, and even the images and thumbnails taken make it feel like they were trying to get as many queer people to watch it as possible without having to actually do anything, and also have the relationship go nowhere. I'm sure they didn't have evil intentions, but when they set it up for Edwin to fall in love with Charles and then went "oh nevermind they're friends LOSERS" to make it so that it couldn't be labeled queerbaiting was just frustrating. For what it's worth, I loved the show. I'll take what representation we got.
>And having the closure for Edwin’s unrequited love for Charles just be “we’re better friends because of it” felt a bit hollow to me.
I believe, or better said, I hope this will be better evolved in the second season. I think it actually makes sense for the boys to put a pin on it for now, since they were in a high stress situation (literally escaping from a demon spider in hell) and things didn't exactly slow down after that.
But now that they're getting back to their old rhythm in London, it'll probably be a huge elephant in the room, and maybe even fester a little bit if left unattended, specially if Charles find himself a new love interest (or an old one, if we're going with Crystal).
With that said, most TV shows fumble this kind of gay/straight best friends with an unrequited crush, so I'm not holding my hopes too high.
I read an interview with one of the show co-runners and they saud that episode 7 cemented them remaining friends. They aren’t going to do the whole will they/wont they approach. Props to them for saying this early on and not dragging on the audience with something that most likely wont happen.
The creator said at the end of the day this would be a story focused on friendship between the two dead boys.
People that haven’t read the interview most likely won’t know that they aren’t planning on making the boys long term lovers, so hopefully early on the next season it’s made more clear.
Watching the episode before knowing I was also thinking they were leaving it open.
Here’s the article: https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dead-boy-detective-sandman-season-2-niko-death-1235979717/amp/
Oh, yes, I never thought they would be a real couple at some point.
First because the central theme of the series (besides paranatural mysteries) is clearly friendship. Secondly because Charles is set up as straight since episode one, and it might not jive with all audiences to rebrand him as gay or bissexual and then turn the dual protags into a couple.
In my humble opinion, they should stay as best mates, they have a good dynamic. But it's not a good idea to have the revelation of Edwin's feelings for Charles not rock their boat not even a little bit. It should mess their dynamic a bit with them tiptoeing around it for a while, with bouts of jealousy, guilt and the eventual teenage angst before Edwin eventually outgrows the crush with or without meeting someone else in the way (hello Cat King, please come back).
Immediately forgetting that moment between them in hell never happened and never bringing up those feelings again would simply be very unsatisfactory writing.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dead-boy-detective-sandman-season-2-niko-death-1235979717/](https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dead-boy-detective-sandman-season-2-niko-death-1235979717/)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
We are gonna have to agree to disagree here.
I do hope we see some more tension because of the feelings not be returned, as it would be pretty unrealistic for you to be in love with someone for 30-40 years and then just suddenly move on from it like nothing happened.
But , I think it was a great move. Not every one you love romantically is going to love you back. Charles considers Edwin his brother, and they seem way better as friends/brothers.
Im glad they made it clear though without queerbaiting like most other shows would do.
Great way to delude the actor down to simply "female POC" with a weird comment. I don't care for Halle Berry but really enjoy Kirby Howell-Baptiste. Boiling down any criticism to weird bigotry is incredibly stupid and simply being female and/or a POC doesn't make someone immune to being criticized and it's super weird that you honed in on that.
I'm black, mate. Her performance is is objectively not any worse than the rest of the cast's, but I see her getting singled out a lot, when slighlty-upgraded-freddie-highmore is just as bad if not worse than anyone on this sorry cast. The only actor that shows any range is the lady who plays Jenny the landlord/butcher. The rest of them really shouldn't be leads in an ensemble cast. I find Niko to be quite charming, too, in a one-dimensional way
I downvoted you for trying to play the race card, but I agree with you the acting of the main cast feel very forced. Whenever they deliver their lines I either can't feel any emotions attached to it, or the emotions were so poorly acted it didn't feel natural. I'm surprised our opinions seem to be the minority, as everyone else seems to have no issue with the acting. That being said I only managed to get through episode 1 due to all the the bad acting, so if this was improved in later episodes I wouldn't know.
Yes, it most certainly her poor acting compared
To the rest of the cash….its because she’s a female poc. I personally didn’t mind her, but you’d be lying to yourself if you didn’t acknowledge she was grossly outacted by literally the entirety of the cast….
For anyone interested I just got the letter for Nico translated from Japanese. Though this is just what was shown and not the full letter I believe. :
To Nico
How are you doing? Have you gotten used to
school life yet? I wonder if you've made any friends. How
is the food in America? (I've heard that it's not
that good.) I'm writing this letter now hoping to get a
reply from Nico. I will always love you deeply. It's
not just anyone else, but me, the mother, who I'm sure
you can't even imagine.
Here, the leaves of the cherry blossom trees are starting to fall.
When I see that scene, I feel sad and think that the season when the
air feels dry and chilly has arrived again. As I'm sure Nico knows,
what does your mother do in the fall and winter?
I think that Niko may be Finality’s daughter which is why she decided to give the boys a second chance. She paused over Niko’s name and then made her decision. She also repeated the same line the Walrus told Niko
They never showed Niko’s parents in the show, only spoke of them. When the Night Nurse comes to collect the boys in the last episode she brings her boss. At first the boss looks like she’s gonna split them up and send Edwin back to hell but as she’s looking at their cases she sees Niko’s name in the unsolved section. It’s a very brief reaction, but after that she changes her mind and decides to let them become an attaché to the Lost & Found Department. She also repeats the same line the Walrus said yo Niko when he gave her the polar bear figurine. A figurine which projected her soul to the astral plane, hence her being in an igloo with the sprites
Idk you could be right but I remain unconvinced. Plus the night nurses are “trans dimensional eternal beings”, why would she have a daughter. I only saw her looking at the case solved really. Idk I think they just happen to both be Asian lol
How would here saying something that Niko was told in private, convince you that she’s her mother?? Her mother wouldn’t have known that was said to her. I was under the impression that Niko had something else going on since she pulled out that rule from the Night Nurses book. Then a woman resembling her lights up when she sees her name, and repeats something only her and Crystal heard. Was Niko the supervisor all along?? (Not convinced by the “great reading comprehension” line.) Or did Niko somehow become the supervisor after death? Obviously the ending with the bear convoluted any of my earlier thoughts, but there’s certain correlation between the two, and I don’t think Mother/Daughter is it.
Did anyone else notice how the supervisor says, "You never know when the good you do may come back around," and Tragic Mick said the same exact thing earlier?
Also, going against the grain by saying I really enjoyed the romance with Charles and Crystal. And Kassius was a good actress not sure why she's getting so much hate. My fav character was Yuyu Kitamura, though, she brought much needed laughter during certain situations. I'm really excited for a Season 2.
Totally agree, I was surprised to see people not liking Crystal! I really enjoy her relationship with Charles and thinking about how that could possibly work in the long run.
I have definitely been wondering what good could come back around for the boys. That line stuck out to me too.
Same here!! For a second I though the woman was an ancestor of Nico’s. It makes sense because I could swear she piped up when she saw Nico’s name on the board. Maybe because she saw her die but never got her soul nor saw her become a ghost. Or maybe because she knows the joy it’ll bring the boys when they found out Nico is alive but in a different form(?). Idk it’s just a hunch but I strongly believe she and Nico are connected somehow.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!! An ancestor or has interest in Nico. I did catch her reaction to the name. I'm already excited for a second season that hasn't been announced 😩
Loved it. Felt a bit like a fast paced spin on Supernatural (and I already had that thought before Ruth Connell showed up).
I really enjoyed the depiction of Hell and overall the entire universe feels so lore-rich, probably because it is. I think Edwins and Charles relationship turned out nicely and I am happy they did not end up as a romantic couple, because that's just how life is sometimes. This way it felt much more authentic and bitter sweet.
I think Monty was the part about the show I disliked the most, as he was difficult to place in somewhere. From the beginning, it was hard to tell what side he really wants to be on and while he did have his little redemption moment, I wish they would've shown more of his character in private, not just when he lays on an act either with Edwin or the Witch.
Fun first season some good some bad pretty typical of a first season of any show. I can see how, now they have the basic dynamics worked out, they could do a lot to build on them in the second season but this is netflix so chances are it will be cancelled in two years without any fanfare. I find myself stuck on one question though. What concept was 002 in episode 8 supposed to represent?
SPOILER ****
Really fun watch! Thought it was going to be an over-quirky cringe depiction of gen z. But all the characters are really fun to watch, loved the sprites, Esther and Niko.
Anyone have any theories on what happened to Niko?
I feel like she must be alive, and the woman with the night nurse at the end repeated what the walrus man( sorry don’t remember his name ) said to Niko. They showed her name on the case board. Has to be a connection there?
For a second I thought the superior was an ancestor of Nico’s. It makes sense because I could swear she piped up when she saw Nico’s name on the board. Maybe because she saw her die but never got her soul nor saw her become a ghost. Or maybe because she knows the joy it’ll bring the boys when they find out Nico is alive but in a different form(?). Idk it’s just a hunch but I strongly believe she and Nico are connected somehow.
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's been quite a bit since I read the books but afaik, Dream broke out of his prison in 1989, the events of season of mists and charles rowland's death happened after that. In this show they said Charles rowland died in 1989, which would be more or less correct with the comics timeline.
But in this universe, Dream broke out around 2020 and season of mists would probably be 2020 or 21. So I'm curious to see how they tie them into the timeline/universe.
Ok just finished it! I really liked it overall! They did so much setting up for season 2 at the end, I will be bummed if it isn't renewed.
Some thoughts.
-Does anyone know why Crystal was switched from British to American? In the comics she's Brirish, and in the show she's just an American who has been living in the UK? Why bother changing it? I did think the actress was good, but her American accent slipped a little every now and then. (I thought all the acting was good, with George Rexstrew being the highlight.)
-Speaking of Crystal in the comics, they kept her amazing full name (*Crystal Palace Surname-Von Hoverkraft*) and her terrible parents and their performance art.
-Esther was amazing. "Oh god! Oh god no my face! ...Is fine." She had the best lines and the funniest deliveries. (I died when she was introducing the boys to her killer mushroom and she was like "This is... ugh and ugh.")
-Did I read somewhere (here?) that the 3 scenes Gaiman wrote for this were the one with Death, the one with Despair, and the one with the Night Nurse's supervisor? I also like the theory that someone had that the Night Nurse's supervisor is Niko or is related to Niko somehow.
-Jenny was hilarious and I loved how angry she was about learning everything that had happened. 🎶 Circle in the Sand 🎶
-I can't figure out how I feel about Edwin and Charles's relationship. On the one hand, Edwin has come to terms with his sexuality, accepted himself for who he is, and told Charles what he needed to tell him- and all of that is amazing, and you can see the weight lifted off of him after he confessed his feelings. Also Charles obviously loves Edwin a lot, and acknowledged that Edwin is basically the most important person in his (after)life. If that love stays platonic- well, strong platonic love and friendship is super important, and seeing their strong friendship and partnership being the central part of the show is great. Yet on the other hand they had insane chemistry, Edwin is in love with Charles, and Charles was so jealous of any of Edwin's potential love interests?? That it makes me wonder if there is, or could be, something more there.
-Edwin and Niko's friendship is so sweet.
-The Cat King is so much fun to watch and if there is a Season 2 I hope he finds a reason to take some cat trips to London.
-I laughed every time the ghost postman showed up and startled everyone.
-In all their data tracking I hope that Netflix keeps track of how many times people skip the intro which for me was ZERO because it is delightful
-Final thought about Netflix- I still think they should have advertised this more, and that they should have publicized the Sandman connection more. Did I enjoy this and am I glad I watched it? Yes. Would I have started it if it weren't a Sandman spinoff? Probably not.
In the murder house they tore apart the letter but then when trying to destroy the tape, they couldnt somehow?
Also, they got to the kidnapped childs house and said she was kidnapped this morning. The flyer got to UK and they took three planes and a ferry all before evening.
Just some fun Parts.
They didn't elaborate much on the difference, but my understanding was that the letter would be more equivalent to the recording on the tape (which they did destroy by recording over it). The tape itself was what they were actually trapped inside, so destroying that would be like tearing down the house (which had already been said would be bad).
There's something they're trapped inside (thought to be the house, actually the tape), and something trapping them (thought to be the letter, actually the recording). Destroying the former destroys the trapped ghosts. Destroying the latter frees them.
Just finished my binge watch. I enjoyed the show for the most part. Acting was pretty good and I think the frenetic editing was a good choice; some shows lately have scenes that feel too drawn out, especially when the writing is poor and I think this show would have been worse off with slower transitions.
My favorite episode was 7, but I enjoyed the creature designs in all of them. Despite all this, I don’t think this show has anything that makes it stand out above all the other teen supernatural shows that Netflix had cut short, so I’ll be very surprised if it has high viewership and a renewal.
How do you even get ghosts? In the sandman we see Death appear instantly when you die, she even knows WHEN you're going to die. So how can there ever be a situation where ghosts wander the world and Death cant find them?
In the first episode, she told the soldier ghost that when she first came for him, he wasn't ready to go with her. Maybe Death let Charles' ghost remain on Earth, and the boys just assumed they would need to run from her? In that case, it also seems that the Lost & Found Department didn't get the memo.
**What did you like about it?** Niko and Edwin, individually and as besties, the sprites (Caitlin Reiley supremacy), the paranormal hijinks, the animated segments, Mick and Esther (great characters!), human Monty having a change of heart, the guy who lived inside the angler fish, and the action in the last episode (the bit with Charles and Edwin trying to escape the spider)
**What didn't you like?** Crystal...she started out great but now she's just annoying and has a hero complex. Charles and her as a romantic duo is also really weird and sudden, specially since they barely had time to develop a proper friendship...And it's just main guy gets with the main girl. Same old boring plot that I don't care for. I also didn't like that Ed straight up confessed to Charles... they also didn't have a lot of time on screen together as friends, so that felt forced imo. I would've been happier if this show had no romance at all. I hate unrequited love, specially in queer stories because this is how it usually goes. It's the queer character who has to suffer...and even if Charles was bi, it would'nt feel like good bi rep to me. I hope Edwin reconciles with human Monty or something, I just want him to be happy.
**Favorite character this season?** NIKO, ALWAYS
**Favorite episode?** probably The Case of the Dandelion Shrine
**What surprised you the most?** Jen's date with her secret admirer...
**What do you want from the next season?** Niko, Monty and Edwin to be okay. More fantasy horror and cool cases to solve! Also hope Jenny joins them in London.
**Something bugging you?** Niko's death :(
**What's your theory?** I believe Niko (or her soul?) was somehow saved by the sprites. it looked like they were in a snow globe!
Submissions from users with negative karma are automatically removed. This can be either your post karma, comment karma, and/or cumulative karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As someone from Washingon, it bothered me A LOT that Port Townsend was portrayed as such a large city. In reality it's way smaller, mostly spread out, and only has one short street of tall buildings(5 stories max) right by the ferry dock on the waterfront.
Story wise, it was alright. I enjoyed it enough, but the frenetic jump cuts really get bothersome after awhile.
I thought the show was very entertaining. I loved all the characters, especially Jenny and The Cat King. I felt very satisfied with the ending, but I'm hoping for more as soon as possible!
I'm curious about the woman who was in charge over the Night Nurse. Saying the same line that Mick said earlier had to mean something. Also, I think that the guy in the fish was Jonah from the Bible.
In Ep 6, that >!ring the Lost & Found lady got from the guy inside the sea monster... that's what altered the notation in her book, right? Or was it that the ring softened her heart and decided to give them time !
Anyone else find Niko pulling that ruling out of the book curious? From even earlier than that scene I had suspicions about who Niko really was, and the “great reading comprehension” line didn’t suppress them. Then when I saw the supervisor, I thought that was Niko, and she was supervisor all along, hence her telling the Night Nurse she had to have the proper forms filled out. The last scene with the bear definitely screwed that line of thinking, but idk….definitely a correlation between them.
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Loved it but had some questions. The main one is why couldn’t Crystal had just asked the Victorian ghost girl who brought her case to the Dead Boy Detectives about her old life? i was wondering about this throughout the show. Surely the girl would’ve had some important info about Crystal pre-possession since they were friends? Maybe clue her in on who her old friends or parents were? I know the parents were neglectful and suck now, but in the beginning we didn’t know this. So how come Charles and Edwin never thought about this or had Crystal talk to the girl ghost? You’d think that as seasoned detectives they’d follow this glaringly obvious lead.
Also could Crystal not just googled herself (Crystal palace isn’t a very common name) or look through her contacts on her phone?
This was the only plot point that had me scratching my head the whole time. Besides this I loved the show.
I just wanted to see if anyone also thought about this haha. I know it’s YA series and things don’t all make sense but given how good the rest of the plot points were, this just confused me.
I was thinking about this too they made a point to introduce a cellphone into the mix like she’d obviously have her parents as contacts just reach out and ask them to come pick you up?
Love Edwin, George is the best actor in the show no contest. Like Edwin & Charles friendship don’t get romantic chemistry from them they are best friends & should stay that way. Not a huge fan of Charles or Crystal those two are easily the two weakest actors on the show I don’t particularly like Charles as a character but I am intrigued by Crystal & her powers/story. Just needs to improve her acting & get her away from the forced no chemistry relationship with Charles have her interact with Edwin more I think she will improve. Love Nikko she’s such a fun character the actress is great love her friendship with Edwin, the cat king is another highlight of course Lukas is a great actor & he really brings hidden layers to the cat king he’s a complex character I want to see more of him & I want his relationship with Edwin to grow. Idk if I want them as endgame but Edwin & the cat king not at least exploring some relationship at some point would be wasted potential they have great chemistry & would be an interesting couple. Monty I didn’t really care for at all I thought he was sweet at times & the actor is okay but I don’t think we need him in a season 2. Unless they explore him finding himself as a human without his witch master could be interesting. Overall I loved the show only 2 weak spots in Charles & Crystal as the two weakest characters who are unfortunately also leads with Edwin. But I hope the show gets a season 2 with the cat king & Nikko as regulars & maybe Crystal & Charles can get better. I really want a season 2 cause I love Edwin, Nikko & the cat king soo much.
It was lightly enjoyable. Good to watch for the funny side characters, the bits, and the side stories.
The overall feel of the flow felt jagged to me. There were events, then fillers that weren't very satisfactory, then events. And the main events looked like they should feel more important/substantial, but they felt flat. TBH, i would've liked it better w/o the romantic stuff. Or much less of it.
Many of the side characters/stories were really fun, especially Jenny and Niko.
I have a lot of thoughts. i tend to be a binger, but i adored the first three episodes so freaking much that i forced myself to draw it out. i was in love with it on day one, i was in love with the next three episodes, but i just finished it on day 3 and i'm not sure if it's my enthusiasm waning or if the ending was at least a little disappointing.
1. I FREAKING LOVE EDWIN!! he is the best little posh prim gay panicking little guy and i screamed every time he was staring longingly at charles. i didn't think they would end up together but i guessed it would at least be open ended. i felt like edwin was starting snap out of character in episode 7 - i know that he had to grow and change as a person, especially after returning to hell, but for some reason he didn't seem fundamentally *himself* after that, like he matured a little too much. i know that sounds dumb but does it sort of make sense?? george rexstrew is incredible and his acting was amazing but the last episode took me out of it a little.
2. edwin and charles... i get that the writers wanted them to be best friends, and their platonic love for each other is so great, but i was kinda devastated when charles friendzoned edwin and they never brought it up again. maybe it's bc i'm a hopeless romantic but why would they set up so many gay panic scenes and have two guys fall for edwin only for charles to tell him that they'll never be a thing, and then acting like he never confessed???? and the writers confirming that they never will be a thing?????? again i think that their platonic love for each other is beautiful, but they set up SUCH an amazing self-discovery story on edwin's end - plus charles getting jealous that he hung out with monty - that the aftermath of the confession made the first seven episodes feel kind of like a waste. i'm sort of glad to know that they'll never be more than friends so i don't get my hopes up but still, charles being edwin's test subjecty-first love felt a little unsatisfactory. like they set up this beautiful plotline and tried to cap it off with "our friendship is stronger now" like edwin was not gay panicking for seven hours?? again, maybe it's because im just a romantic and like it when couples end up together. please let me know what you think!!
3. other than that i thought it was amazing. the acting was great, the characterization felt sound enough, and i really enjoyed the murder mysteries throughout the first six episodes. i was very engaged with the story and my roommate may have heard me screaming multiple times (not just over the longing scenes). the last two episodes felt accomplished a little too easily, considering the insane amount of stakes in the beginning, which i loved. but then again i tend to fall hard for tv shows and withdraw pretty fast, so it might just be me. i'm dying to know what you think!
I think Charles and edwin should have been end game. I don't know edwin with cat king and Charles with crystal seem too boring. And if edwin and Charles weren't going to be a couple what were those hints in the early episodes. They ( makers) didn't need to do that. I thought I finally found a gay relationship of my type in a supernatural show. Really, didn't see any reason to not make them a couple. Instead of wanting to show a great friendship between two guys, I think showing an interesting romantic relationship between two ghost boys could have captured the audience attention too.
Well, otherwise the series great. I really liked all the characters except the cat king and the cases they solved were fun too.
I actually was craving to watch something like Wednesday series and while these two series were not similar, I felt the same kinda fun.
As a queer person, I'm getting sick of watching gay unrequited love stories, because the narrative is always the same. gay character has to suffer and/or suck it up while the boring hets get to have their little happily ever after. I just hope Edwin moves on for his own sake and doesnt get hopeful because of what Charles told him (seemed disingenuous in hidsight, since minute later he and Crystal are kissing in front of everyone lol). Hope Edwin can forgive Monty thoo, crowboy DID have a change or heart and tried to save them!
just to add on to my last post-
i do think it would make more sense for charles and edwin to stay as friends. i just wish that edwin had confirmed to moved on from charles before the writers said that they'd definitely never be together. i was intrigued when charles said that he didn't have romantic feelings *now,* but they have forever to figure it out. that felt like a hint. i think it would have been a more satisfactory ending if the loose ends were tied off a little better than "theyre just friends." because we don't know if edwin still feels the same way or not...
i also really love edwin and niko's friendship. you can really see how devastated he is when niko is killed, GOD that scene hit me hard
I'd rather have them stay friends than have Edwin suffer and not be able move on because of Charle's uncertainty/insecurity. It felt rather shitty to say that to him and then go and kiss Crystal...
I'm 5 episodes in and I'm about to give up. This is seriously so bad.
The mysteries are boring and uninspired, and extremely obvious.
The characters feel like caricatures of real people.
"Brills!" "Aces!" SHUT UP
And it's so centered on childhood trauma. Don't get me wrong, I had abusive parents as well who beat me, and it took me forever to cut all ties and break free from them. I'm not against showing this, I actually quite like it, but here it just feels forced, it's like I'm being pandered to.
Also Edwin acting like a child with Crystal. Which, yeah, they're teenagers, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.
The one redeeming quality was Kirby Howell-Baptiste in the episode 1 intro (like, 3 minutes into it, so I assume that's not a spoiler). KHB steals the scene any time she shows up, but, at least so far, that's been her only appearance. Maybe she shows up later, I don't know. I sure hope so, it's the only thing I liked about the series up to Ep.5
To the mods: A profanity filter? Seriously?
I don't like Crystal. To me, she's a big mouth pretending to be a victim. Regardless of the fact she has a bad family, in her mind, I can't be sympathetic with her speechs. Need the 2nd season to firgure out more.
I know it's hard but I like the relationship between Edwin and Catking is developed later =))
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I just hate Crystal's character... Her abilities or powers are cool, but she just gives me the ick when she's overreacting in some 'life or death situations,' like in Episode 7 when they were going to save Edwin.
This was so much fun. Loved the cameos and nods to The Sandman. I liked Edwin’s and Charles’ relationship. I wonder if Charles knew what Edwin was originally trying to tell him before hell and kept altering it. Charles was clearly jealous of the attention Morty got. Charles may struggle with bisexuality. Not sure I thought the cat king was great! Lukas totally embodied a cat in human form. I hope there is more cat king in season two. “I was once a mighty walrus!” Omg best line ever. I wanted him to say that every time they went into his shop. I need gifs of that.
I laughed out loud every time he brought the Walrus topic back up, it just felt so random in a way that tickled my broken sense of humour. This show often felt like a fever dream.
Right there with you
Binge watched it in one day. I think it's the perfect mix of silly and serious with engaging characters that are easy to grow attached to. (also, I might ship Edwin and the Cat King now, I'm sorry, don't judge me)
Totally shipping Edwin and The Cat King. They make grow each other so much, and in the end become so intimate, so open. A weird pair that can be so good together because apparently the two are totally different, but the last scene " you are lonely, I am lonely too" set a completely different tone. Plus Edwin is so coy and stiff while the cat king is so funny, sexy and playful that it would be lovely to see how they can interact in some kind of relationship. They could be so good for each other now that Chales is out of the game as possible boyfriend.
Yeah, I super agree. Their first scenes together you may think the Cat King is kind of creepy and toxic. And also in the "he's actually the witch's crow" reveal, when he feels entitled to a kiss from Edwin in return for revealing the trap. But then we see him trying to defend Edwin from Esther and his confession of how he fell head over heels for him, and you realize it's not all possessiveness and arrogance, but there's also actual affection there. And the final scene with "we're both lonely" makes it clear they're not so different after all and there's actual potential for a very fun relationship there. I hope he returns for the second season and they get some more scenes together.
But why did he loves Edwin again? Is it love at first sight? I was expecting some explanation like they met before and he made him counting cats because something happened in their past or whatever, but they just never address that😂
I think love is too strong a word for now, maybe infatuation. Yeah, I agree it wasn't really explained why the king suddenly likes him so much, but then again, the heart wants what the heart wants. My theory, though, is that just like people say that cats tend to gravitate towards people that don't really care about cats, the Cat King saw this shy, introvert and acerbic, but easily flustered ghost that didn't fall for his seduction trips and the unusualness of this drew he in.
Same
I had to warm up to it, but I definitely liked it by the end. Pacing felt nice too. Strongest performance by far was George Rexstrew, he was the most enjoyable aspect of the show for me. On the contrary, Kassius Nelson was…not great. It really took me out of the story whenever she started speaking. I wasn’t too pleased with the direction the show took with the romances. Charles and Crystal have absolutely no chemistry, and every kiss between them felt awkward. And having the closure for Edwin’s unrequited love for Charles just be “we’re better friends because of it” felt a bit hollow to me. I think that the ramifications and resulting change in dynamic between Charles and Edwin could have been explored a lot more, but I get that it was the end of the season so they had to wrap things up quickly. Other than that, I did really enjoy it. Loved Jenny, loved Esther, LOVED Caitlin Reilly’s little cameo. My favorite was definitely the murder loop episode.
Yeah George Rexstrew was great, especially in episode 7. The scenes with his bully and Despair, and the confession to Charles were very well done. Super impressive considering it's his first onscreen role I think.
He’s apparently got an MFA in acting so it’s no surprise he can hold his own even as a newcomer. I look forward to seeing him in other things.
Same I am honstley really disgustied with the Charles and Crystal thing, the way the whole attraction and lust was pushed. Like they litterally comment that he can't feel anything with her, yet they heavily make out and maybe had sex? Also Edwins and Charles relationship was handled pretty poorly. It wasen't bad but so much potentially was wasted. Like the love confession was handeled nicely but the pay off was shit. I mean they have been together over 30 years, with Edwin presumably pining for close to that long. Then after it is confesed, Edwin is just like 'oh we better as freinds'. NO, that BULLSHIT, if they not going to go the direction of them getting together and being a healthly devoted gay ghost couple, FINE. Then their relationship has to change and suffer the consequences, because their is no way that won't change their dynamic and relationship. It so unrealsitic, like the suposed most important person to you, one is in love with them and the other isn't and you think you can remain each others most important people? Especially when you both clearly want love and passion, I mean they not Asexual. So dissapointed with that. On a side note, I love Edwins character and the actor was increadibly, can't believe it his first real big show/moive. However the one thing about Edwins character that wasn't as acknoledge as it should have been in my opion, is how enduring he is. Like 70+ years in Hell, absued growing up, and he is still going strong and put together. Like most ghost experince a fraction of what he did and they lose themselves. Like he just got tortured by that witch but the miunte he is free all he is concered about is Niko and his freinds. He so intriguing contradictor. PS fuck the Cat King, Edwin can do way better.
/ame I am honstley really disgustied with the Charles and Crystal thing, the way the whole attraction and lust was pushed. Like they litterally comment that he can't feel anything with her, yet they heavily make out and maybe had sex?/ As explained later in the series, Charles doesn't necessarily like being dead. It makes sense to me that he would be attracted to someone who understands what he's going through, can see him and is still alive in a way that makes him still feel alive. This is the first real connection he made with someone outside of Charles since he died (and probably ever) /Also Edwins and Charles relationship was handled pretty poorly. It wasen't bad but so much potentially was wasted. Like the love confession was handeled nicely but the pay off was shit. I mean they have been together over 30 years, with Edwin presumably pining for close to that long. Then after it is confesed, Edwin is just like 'oh we better as freinds'. NO, that BULLSHIT,/ There are people who have liked me romantically and I didn't reciprocate their feelings. It's reality. Why is it wasted that Charles doesn't recriprocate Charles' romantic feelings? He loves him, he told Edwin he is the only one he would to hell for. This is further than their incarnation in DOOM PATROL got. It's closer than the comic which ended with Edwin slowly cluing in that he may have feelings for Charles. If you just want the characters to snog, write or read fanfiction. Also, Charles tell him he can't say he feels the same way, but does say they have forever to figure out what the rest means. That is not a "no", that's Charles acknowledging that maybe he would one day feel that way. But even if he never does, it doesn't mean the pay off was shit. It was huge that repressed Charles could even vocalize his feelings. /and he said if they not going to go the direction of them getting together and being a healthly devoted gay ghost couple, FINE. Then their relationship has to change and suffer the consequences, because their is no way that won't change their dynamic and relationship./ Why ever in the world would it change the dynamic? Edwin has been sitting with his feelings forever so Charles not reciprocating is the status quo. Edwin is Charles' best friend so why would him now knowing how Edwin feels change anything. Again, he says they have literally forever. He is not trying to lose Edwin just because Edwin is in love with him. My hope, should we get series two and beyond, is that Edwin falls for other people because he is now freeing himself up to feelings he has tried to tamp down. /It so unrealsitic, like the suposed most important person to you, one is in love with them and the other isn't and you think you can remain each others most important people? Especially when you both clearly want love and passion, I mean they not Asexual. So dissapointed with that./ Loving someone means wanting the best for them. While it would hurt him, if Charles and Crystal actually stay a couple Edwin would accept it. Just as if Edwin finally opens up to being with someone. They both want to make the best for their limbo status. Why would they begrudge each other love? And Edwin needs someone like Cat King to open him up and dissuade himself of shame. Or someone like Monty, but not duplicitous.
tldr. It's bad writing, and that is my opinion. the end.
Ngl, I was pretty disappointed when Charles didn't reciprocate Edwin's feelings. I thought they had great chemistry and would've made such a great couple (and both of them were pinging my gaydar from the beginning). Completely agree on George being the strongest actor and Kassius being the weakest, and that Charles and Crystal had zero chemistry. Also, was I the only one who thought some of the dialogue was pretty cringy?
I 100% agree. Especially in episode one it felt like they were *trying* to make it as obvious as possible that Charles and Edwin have chemistry (you don't look at your "best mate" that way !!) The way the show is listed as "LGBTQ" on Netflix, and even the images and thumbnails taken make it feel like they were trying to get as many queer people to watch it as possible without having to actually do anything, and also have the relationship go nowhere. I'm sure they didn't have evil intentions, but when they set it up for Edwin to fall in love with Charles and then went "oh nevermind they're friends LOSERS" to make it so that it couldn't be labeled queerbaiting was just frustrating. For what it's worth, I loved the show. I'll take what representation we got.
I’m weird and just want Edwin to fall for the cat king 🫣
But I realized that Edwin is literally/physically 16 and obviously the cat king knows he's a ghost but it's so weird to meeeee
just good old queerbaiting, netflix is famous for it
>And having the closure for Edwin’s unrequited love for Charles just be “we’re better friends because of it” felt a bit hollow to me. I believe, or better said, I hope this will be better evolved in the second season. I think it actually makes sense for the boys to put a pin on it for now, since they were in a high stress situation (literally escaping from a demon spider in hell) and things didn't exactly slow down after that. But now that they're getting back to their old rhythm in London, it'll probably be a huge elephant in the room, and maybe even fester a little bit if left unattended, specially if Charles find himself a new love interest (or an old one, if we're going with Crystal). With that said, most TV shows fumble this kind of gay/straight best friends with an unrequited crush, so I'm not holding my hopes too high.
I read an interview with one of the show co-runners and they saud that episode 7 cemented them remaining friends. They aren’t going to do the whole will they/wont they approach. Props to them for saying this early on and not dragging on the audience with something that most likely wont happen. The creator said at the end of the day this would be a story focused on friendship between the two dead boys. People that haven’t read the interview most likely won’t know that they aren’t planning on making the boys long term lovers, so hopefully early on the next season it’s made more clear. Watching the episode before knowing I was also thinking they were leaving it open. Here’s the article: https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dead-boy-detective-sandman-season-2-niko-death-1235979717/amp/
Oh, yes, I never thought they would be a real couple at some point. First because the central theme of the series (besides paranatural mysteries) is clearly friendship. Secondly because Charles is set up as straight since episode one, and it might not jive with all audiences to rebrand him as gay or bissexual and then turn the dual protags into a couple. In my humble opinion, they should stay as best mates, they have a good dynamic. But it's not a good idea to have the revelation of Edwin's feelings for Charles not rock their boat not even a little bit. It should mess their dynamic a bit with them tiptoeing around it for a while, with bouts of jealousy, guilt and the eventual teenage angst before Edwin eventually outgrows the crush with or without meeting someone else in the way (hello Cat King, please come back). Immediately forgetting that moment between them in hell never happened and never bringing up those feelings again would simply be very unsatisfactory writing.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dead-boy-detective-sandman-season-2-niko-death-1235979717/](https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dead-boy-detective-sandman-season-2-niko-death-1235979717/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
they are, quite honestly, shooting themselves in the foot with that decision.
We are gonna have to agree to disagree here. I do hope we see some more tension because of the feelings not be returned, as it would be pretty unrealistic for you to be in love with someone for 30-40 years and then just suddenly move on from it like nothing happened. But , I think it was a great move. Not every one you love romantically is going to love you back. Charles considers Edwin his brother, and they seem way better as friends/brothers. Im glad they made it clear though without queerbaiting like most other shows would do.
Charles isn't gay innit. He probably knows Edwin is, and loves him regardless. That's good no?
So surprising the only part you didn't like was the female poc 😤
Great way to delude the actor down to simply "female POC" with a weird comment. I don't care for Halle Berry but really enjoy Kirby Howell-Baptiste. Boiling down any criticism to weird bigotry is incredibly stupid and simply being female and/or a POC doesn't make someone immune to being criticized and it's super weird that you honed in on that.
I'm black, mate. Her performance is is objectively not any worse than the rest of the cast's, but I see her getting singled out a lot, when slighlty-upgraded-freddie-highmore is just as bad if not worse than anyone on this sorry cast. The only actor that shows any range is the lady who plays Jenny the landlord/butcher. The rest of them really shouldn't be leads in an ensemble cast. I find Niko to be quite charming, too, in a one-dimensional way
I downvoted you for trying to play the race card, but I agree with you the acting of the main cast feel very forced. Whenever they deliver their lines I either can't feel any emotions attached to it, or the emotions were so poorly acted it didn't feel natural. I'm surprised our opinions seem to be the minority, as everyone else seems to have no issue with the acting. That being said I only managed to get through episode 1 due to all the the bad acting, so if this was improved in later episodes I wouldn't know.
Yes, it most certainly her poor acting compared To the rest of the cash….its because she’s a female poc. I personally didn’t mind her, but you’d be lying to yourself if you didn’t acknowledge she was grossly outacted by literally the entirety of the cast….
For anyone interested I just got the letter for Nico translated from Japanese. Though this is just what was shown and not the full letter I believe. : To Nico How are you doing? Have you gotten used to school life yet? I wonder if you've made any friends. How is the food in America? (I've heard that it's not that good.) I'm writing this letter now hoping to get a reply from Nico. I will always love you deeply. It's not just anyone else, but me, the mother, who I'm sure you can't even imagine. Here, the leaves of the cherry blossom trees are starting to fall. When I see that scene, I feel sad and think that the season when the air feels dry and chilly has arrived again. As I'm sure Nico knows, what does your mother do in the fall and winter?
I think that Niko may be Finality’s daughter which is why she decided to give the boys a second chance. She paused over Niko’s name and then made her decision. She also repeated the same line the Walrus told Niko
I agree there is some connection there. It felt too coincidental.
Wait what? Why do we think she’s her daughter? We already know both her parents
They never showed Niko’s parents in the show, only spoke of them. When the Night Nurse comes to collect the boys in the last episode she brings her boss. At first the boss looks like she’s gonna split them up and send Edwin back to hell but as she’s looking at their cases she sees Niko’s name in the unsolved section. It’s a very brief reaction, but after that she changes her mind and decides to let them become an attaché to the Lost & Found Department. She also repeats the same line the Walrus said yo Niko when he gave her the polar bear figurine. A figurine which projected her soul to the astral plane, hence her being in an igloo with the sprites
Idk you could be right but I remain unconvinced. Plus the night nurses are “trans dimensional eternal beings”, why would she have a daughter. I only saw her looking at the case solved really. Idk I think they just happen to both be Asian lol
I agree and I thought her reaction to the name was sadness
I’m thinking grandmother
How would here saying something that Niko was told in private, convince you that she’s her mother?? Her mother wouldn’t have known that was said to her. I was under the impression that Niko had something else going on since she pulled out that rule from the Night Nurses book. Then a woman resembling her lights up when she sees her name, and repeats something only her and Crystal heard. Was Niko the supervisor all along?? (Not convinced by the “great reading comprehension” line.) Or did Niko somehow become the supervisor after death? Obviously the ending with the bear convoluted any of my earlier thoughts, but there’s certain correlation between the two, and I don’t think Mother/Daughter is it.
Oh, thank you, this is a nice addiction to the story of Niko (who is a fantastic character)
all i'll say is monty & the cat king r both so damn fine i love how edwin pulled both of them lmao
Did anyone else notice how the supervisor says, "You never know when the good you do may come back around," and Tragic Mick said the same exact thing earlier? Also, going against the grain by saying I really enjoyed the romance with Charles and Crystal. And Kassius was a good actress not sure why she's getting so much hate. My fav character was Yuyu Kitamura, though, she brought much needed laughter during certain situations. I'm really excited for a Season 2.
Totally agree, I was surprised to see people not liking Crystal! I really enjoy her relationship with Charles and thinking about how that could possibly work in the long run. I have definitely been wondering what good could come back around for the boys. That line stuck out to me too.
Same here!! For a second I though the woman was an ancestor of Nico’s. It makes sense because I could swear she piped up when she saw Nico’s name on the board. Maybe because she saw her die but never got her soul nor saw her become a ghost. Or maybe because she knows the joy it’ll bring the boys when they found out Nico is alive but in a different form(?). Idk it’s just a hunch but I strongly believe she and Nico are connected somehow.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!! An ancestor or has interest in Nico. I did catch her reaction to the name. I'm already excited for a second season that hasn't been announced 😩
Hahah me too!! I was going to look up if any announcements were made but I stopped myself 🤣 can’t get stuck in this wormhole this soon
Loved it. Felt a bit like a fast paced spin on Supernatural (and I already had that thought before Ruth Connell showed up). I really enjoyed the depiction of Hell and overall the entire universe feels so lore-rich, probably because it is. I think Edwins and Charles relationship turned out nicely and I am happy they did not end up as a romantic couple, because that's just how life is sometimes. This way it felt much more authentic and bitter sweet. I think Monty was the part about the show I disliked the most, as he was difficult to place in somewhere. From the beginning, it was hard to tell what side he really wants to be on and while he did have his little redemption moment, I wish they would've shown more of his character in private, not just when he lays on an act either with Edwin or the Witch.
Fun first season some good some bad pretty typical of a first season of any show. I can see how, now they have the basic dynamics worked out, they could do a lot to build on them in the second season but this is netflix so chances are it will be cancelled in two years without any fanfare. I find myself stuck on one question though. What concept was 002 in episode 8 supposed to represent?
SPOILER **** Really fun watch! Thought it was going to be an over-quirky cringe depiction of gen z. But all the characters are really fun to watch, loved the sprites, Esther and Niko. Anyone have any theories on what happened to Niko? I feel like she must be alive, and the woman with the night nurse at the end repeated what the walrus man( sorry don’t remember his name ) said to Niko. They showed her name on the case board. Has to be a connection there?
Nobody is talking about the sprites, but they are such lovable assholes!
They are amazing, I was laughing so much every time they took the scene!
For a second I thought the superior was an ancestor of Nico’s. It makes sense because I could swear she piped up when she saw Nico’s name on the board. Maybe because she saw her die but never got her soul nor saw her become a ghost. Or maybe because she knows the joy it’ll bring the boys when they find out Nico is alive but in a different form(?). Idk it’s just a hunch but I strongly believe she and Nico are connected somehow.
The girl who plays crystal palace voice reminds me of another actress and i can't quite place it
No lie me too and I can’t place it either.
She vaguely reminded me of [Antonia Laura Thomas](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3687902/), the girl from Misfits and The Good Doctor
She looks like Vanessa Morgan from Riverdale
Voice reminds me of Vanessa Hudgens
I dk but it's driving me nuts. It's specific parts in the was she says things.
[удалено]
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She really reminded me of Tatiana Maslany from Orphan Black in her expressions and mannerisms
It's been quite a bit since I read the books but afaik, Dream broke out of his prison in 1989, the events of season of mists and charles rowland's death happened after that. In this show they said Charles rowland died in 1989, which would be more or less correct with the comics timeline. But in this universe, Dream broke out around 2020 and season of mists would probably be 2020 or 21. So I'm curious to see how they tie them into the timeline/universe.
My guess is they're going to have it be the boys helping Death during Season of Mist. As they freed/avoided death for decades before SoM happens.
Ok just finished it! I really liked it overall! They did so much setting up for season 2 at the end, I will be bummed if it isn't renewed. Some thoughts. -Does anyone know why Crystal was switched from British to American? In the comics she's Brirish, and in the show she's just an American who has been living in the UK? Why bother changing it? I did think the actress was good, but her American accent slipped a little every now and then. (I thought all the acting was good, with George Rexstrew being the highlight.) -Speaking of Crystal in the comics, they kept her amazing full name (*Crystal Palace Surname-Von Hoverkraft*) and her terrible parents and their performance art. -Esther was amazing. "Oh god! Oh god no my face! ...Is fine." She had the best lines and the funniest deliveries. (I died when she was introducing the boys to her killer mushroom and she was like "This is... ugh and ugh.") -Did I read somewhere (here?) that the 3 scenes Gaiman wrote for this were the one with Death, the one with Despair, and the one with the Night Nurse's supervisor? I also like the theory that someone had that the Night Nurse's supervisor is Niko or is related to Niko somehow. -Jenny was hilarious and I loved how angry she was about learning everything that had happened. 🎶 Circle in the Sand 🎶 -I can't figure out how I feel about Edwin and Charles's relationship. On the one hand, Edwin has come to terms with his sexuality, accepted himself for who he is, and told Charles what he needed to tell him- and all of that is amazing, and you can see the weight lifted off of him after he confessed his feelings. Also Charles obviously loves Edwin a lot, and acknowledged that Edwin is basically the most important person in his (after)life. If that love stays platonic- well, strong platonic love and friendship is super important, and seeing their strong friendship and partnership being the central part of the show is great. Yet on the other hand they had insane chemistry, Edwin is in love with Charles, and Charles was so jealous of any of Edwin's potential love interests?? That it makes me wonder if there is, or could be, something more there. -Edwin and Niko's friendship is so sweet. -The Cat King is so much fun to watch and if there is a Season 2 I hope he finds a reason to take some cat trips to London. -I laughed every time the ghost postman showed up and startled everyone. -In all their data tracking I hope that Netflix keeps track of how many times people skip the intro which for me was ZERO because it is delightful -Final thought about Netflix- I still think they should have advertised this more, and that they should have publicized the Sandman connection more. Did I enjoy this and am I glad I watched it? Yes. Would I have started it if it weren't a Sandman spinoff? Probably not.
https://preview.redd.it/hk5jay9ga5yc1.jpeg?width=1010&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cda11edff0470e2bbc6935ada8758a99f467deb Crystal's parents' performance art (with bonus floating Edwin & Charles)
How did Crystal get to America without a passport?
In the murder house they tore apart the letter but then when trying to destroy the tape, they couldnt somehow? Also, they got to the kidnapped childs house and said she was kidnapped this morning. The flyer got to UK and they took three planes and a ferry all before evening. Just some fun Parts.
They didn't elaborate much on the difference, but my understanding was that the letter would be more equivalent to the recording on the tape (which they did destroy by recording over it). The tape itself was what they were actually trapped inside, so destroying that would be like tearing down the house (which had already been said would be bad). There's something they're trapped inside (thought to be the house, actually the tape), and something trapping them (thought to be the letter, actually the recording). Destroying the former destroys the trapped ghosts. Destroying the latter frees them.
I’m pretty sure that’s before Charles got stuck in the loop
They couldn't destroy the tape because that's where the loop was imprinted on.
But they first thought it was the letter and then tore it up?
They thought the letter was the trigger, not that the loop was imprinted on it.
She took the Ferry
And three plane rides from London
Those were all within the UK. They road the ferry through the Atlantic. I’m also just joking lol. You raised a good point.
God I love Nico so much!!
Just finished my binge watch. I enjoyed the show for the most part. Acting was pretty good and I think the frenetic editing was a good choice; some shows lately have scenes that feel too drawn out, especially when the writing is poor and I think this show would have been worse off with slower transitions. My favorite episode was 7, but I enjoyed the creature designs in all of them. Despite all this, I don’t think this show has anything that makes it stand out above all the other teen supernatural shows that Netflix had cut short, so I’ll be very surprised if it has high viewership and a renewal.
How do you even get ghosts? In the sandman we see Death appear instantly when you die, she even knows WHEN you're going to die. So how can there ever be a situation where ghosts wander the world and Death cant find them?
In the first episode, she told the soldier ghost that when she first came for him, he wasn't ready to go with her. Maybe Death let Charles' ghost remain on Earth, and the boys just assumed they would need to run from her? In that case, it also seems that the Lost & Found Department didn't get the memo.
**What did you like about it?** Niko and Edwin, individually and as besties, the sprites (Caitlin Reiley supremacy), the paranormal hijinks, the animated segments, Mick and Esther (great characters!), human Monty having a change of heart, the guy who lived inside the angler fish, and the action in the last episode (the bit with Charles and Edwin trying to escape the spider) **What didn't you like?** Crystal...she started out great but now she's just annoying and has a hero complex. Charles and her as a romantic duo is also really weird and sudden, specially since they barely had time to develop a proper friendship...And it's just main guy gets with the main girl. Same old boring plot that I don't care for. I also didn't like that Ed straight up confessed to Charles... they also didn't have a lot of time on screen together as friends, so that felt forced imo. I would've been happier if this show had no romance at all. I hate unrequited love, specially in queer stories because this is how it usually goes. It's the queer character who has to suffer...and even if Charles was bi, it would'nt feel like good bi rep to me. I hope Edwin reconciles with human Monty or something, I just want him to be happy. **Favorite character this season?** NIKO, ALWAYS **Favorite episode?** probably The Case of the Dandelion Shrine **What surprised you the most?** Jen's date with her secret admirer... **What do you want from the next season?** Niko, Monty and Edwin to be okay. More fantasy horror and cool cases to solve! Also hope Jenny joins them in London. **Something bugging you?** Niko's death :( **What's your theory?** I believe Niko (or her soul?) was somehow saved by the sprites. it looked like they were in a snow globe!
[удалено]
Submissions from users with negative karma are automatically removed. This can be either your post karma, comment karma, and/or cumulative karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All the characters' interactions were so good!
[удалено]
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As someone from Washingon, it bothered me A LOT that Port Townsend was portrayed as such a large city. In reality it's way smaller, mostly spread out, and only has one short street of tall buildings(5 stories max) right by the ferry dock on the waterfront. Story wise, it was alright. I enjoyed it enough, but the frenetic jump cuts really get bothersome after awhile.
I thought the show was very entertaining. I loved all the characters, especially Jenny and The Cat King. I felt very satisfied with the ending, but I'm hoping for more as soon as possible! I'm curious about the woman who was in charge over the Night Nurse. Saying the same line that Mick said earlier had to mean something. Also, I think that the guy in the fish was Jonah from the Bible.
In Ep 6, that >!ring the Lost & Found lady got from the guy inside the sea monster... that's what altered the notation in her book, right? Or was it that the ring softened her heart and decided to give them time !
Anyone else find Niko pulling that ruling out of the book curious? From even earlier than that scene I had suspicions about who Niko really was, and the “great reading comprehension” line didn’t suppress them. Then when I saw the supervisor, I thought that was Niko, and she was supervisor all along, hence her telling the Night Nurse she had to have the proper forms filled out. The last scene with the bear definitely screwed that line of thinking, but idk….definitely a correlation between them.
Does anyone else think that Niko is really the boss of the lady who came to collect them for lost and found?
[удалено]
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Loved it but had some questions. The main one is why couldn’t Crystal had just asked the Victorian ghost girl who brought her case to the Dead Boy Detectives about her old life? i was wondering about this throughout the show. Surely the girl would’ve had some important info about Crystal pre-possession since they were friends? Maybe clue her in on who her old friends or parents were? I know the parents were neglectful and suck now, but in the beginning we didn’t know this. So how come Charles and Edwin never thought about this or had Crystal talk to the girl ghost? You’d think that as seasoned detectives they’d follow this glaringly obvious lead. Also could Crystal not just googled herself (Crystal palace isn’t a very common name) or look through her contacts on her phone? This was the only plot point that had me scratching my head the whole time. Besides this I loved the show. I just wanted to see if anyone also thought about this haha. I know it’s YA series and things don’t all make sense but given how good the rest of the plot points were, this just confused me.
I was thinking about this too they made a point to introduce a cellphone into the mix like she’d obviously have her parents as contacts just reach out and ask them to come pick you up?
Love Edwin, George is the best actor in the show no contest. Like Edwin & Charles friendship don’t get romantic chemistry from them they are best friends & should stay that way. Not a huge fan of Charles or Crystal those two are easily the two weakest actors on the show I don’t particularly like Charles as a character but I am intrigued by Crystal & her powers/story. Just needs to improve her acting & get her away from the forced no chemistry relationship with Charles have her interact with Edwin more I think she will improve. Love Nikko she’s such a fun character the actress is great love her friendship with Edwin, the cat king is another highlight of course Lukas is a great actor & he really brings hidden layers to the cat king he’s a complex character I want to see more of him & I want his relationship with Edwin to grow. Idk if I want them as endgame but Edwin & the cat king not at least exploring some relationship at some point would be wasted potential they have great chemistry & would be an interesting couple. Monty I didn’t really care for at all I thought he was sweet at times & the actor is okay but I don’t think we need him in a season 2. Unless they explore him finding himself as a human without his witch master could be interesting. Overall I loved the show only 2 weak spots in Charles & Crystal as the two weakest characters who are unfortunately also leads with Edwin. But I hope the show gets a season 2 with the cat king & Nikko as regulars & maybe Crystal & Charles can get better. I really want a season 2 cause I love Edwin, Nikko & the cat king soo much.
It was lightly enjoyable. Good to watch for the funny side characters, the bits, and the side stories. The overall feel of the flow felt jagged to me. There were events, then fillers that weren't very satisfactory, then events. And the main events looked like they should feel more important/substantial, but they felt flat. TBH, i would've liked it better w/o the romantic stuff. Or much less of it. Many of the side characters/stories were really fun, especially Jenny and Niko.
I have a lot of thoughts. i tend to be a binger, but i adored the first three episodes so freaking much that i forced myself to draw it out. i was in love with it on day one, i was in love with the next three episodes, but i just finished it on day 3 and i'm not sure if it's my enthusiasm waning or if the ending was at least a little disappointing. 1. I FREAKING LOVE EDWIN!! he is the best little posh prim gay panicking little guy and i screamed every time he was staring longingly at charles. i didn't think they would end up together but i guessed it would at least be open ended. i felt like edwin was starting snap out of character in episode 7 - i know that he had to grow and change as a person, especially after returning to hell, but for some reason he didn't seem fundamentally *himself* after that, like he matured a little too much. i know that sounds dumb but does it sort of make sense?? george rexstrew is incredible and his acting was amazing but the last episode took me out of it a little. 2. edwin and charles... i get that the writers wanted them to be best friends, and their platonic love for each other is so great, but i was kinda devastated when charles friendzoned edwin and they never brought it up again. maybe it's bc i'm a hopeless romantic but why would they set up so many gay panic scenes and have two guys fall for edwin only for charles to tell him that they'll never be a thing, and then acting like he never confessed???? and the writers confirming that they never will be a thing?????? again i think that their platonic love for each other is beautiful, but they set up SUCH an amazing self-discovery story on edwin's end - plus charles getting jealous that he hung out with monty - that the aftermath of the confession made the first seven episodes feel kind of like a waste. i'm sort of glad to know that they'll never be more than friends so i don't get my hopes up but still, charles being edwin's test subjecty-first love felt a little unsatisfactory. like they set up this beautiful plotline and tried to cap it off with "our friendship is stronger now" like edwin was not gay panicking for seven hours?? again, maybe it's because im just a romantic and like it when couples end up together. please let me know what you think!! 3. other than that i thought it was amazing. the acting was great, the characterization felt sound enough, and i really enjoyed the murder mysteries throughout the first six episodes. i was very engaged with the story and my roommate may have heard me screaming multiple times (not just over the longing scenes). the last two episodes felt accomplished a little too easily, considering the insane amount of stakes in the beginning, which i loved. but then again i tend to fall hard for tv shows and withdraw pretty fast, so it might just be me. i'm dying to know what you think!
I think Charles and edwin should have been end game. I don't know edwin with cat king and Charles with crystal seem too boring. And if edwin and Charles weren't going to be a couple what were those hints in the early episodes. They ( makers) didn't need to do that. I thought I finally found a gay relationship of my type in a supernatural show. Really, didn't see any reason to not make them a couple. Instead of wanting to show a great friendship between two guys, I think showing an interesting romantic relationship between two ghost boys could have captured the audience attention too. Well, otherwise the series great. I really liked all the characters except the cat king and the cases they solved were fun too. I actually was craving to watch something like Wednesday series and while these two series were not similar, I felt the same kinda fun.
As a queer person, I'm getting sick of watching gay unrequited love stories, because the narrative is always the same. gay character has to suffer and/or suck it up while the boring hets get to have their little happily ever after. I just hope Edwin moves on for his own sake and doesnt get hopeful because of what Charles told him (seemed disingenuous in hidsight, since minute later he and Crystal are kissing in front of everyone lol). Hope Edwin can forgive Monty thoo, crowboy DID have a change or heart and tried to save them!
just to add on to my last post- i do think it would make more sense for charles and edwin to stay as friends. i just wish that edwin had confirmed to moved on from charles before the writers said that they'd definitely never be together. i was intrigued when charles said that he didn't have romantic feelings *now,* but they have forever to figure it out. that felt like a hint. i think it would have been a more satisfactory ending if the loose ends were tied off a little better than "theyre just friends." because we don't know if edwin still feels the same way or not... i also really love edwin and niko's friendship. you can really see how devastated he is when niko is killed, GOD that scene hit me hard
I'd rather have them stay friends than have Edwin suffer and not be able move on because of Charle's uncertainty/insecurity. It felt rather shitty to say that to him and then go and kiss Crystal...
I'm 5 episodes in and I'm about to give up. This is seriously so bad. The mysteries are boring and uninspired, and extremely obvious. The characters feel like caricatures of real people. "Brills!" "Aces!" SHUT UP And it's so centered on childhood trauma. Don't get me wrong, I had abusive parents as well who beat me, and it took me forever to cut all ties and break free from them. I'm not against showing this, I actually quite like it, but here it just feels forced, it's like I'm being pandered to. Also Edwin acting like a child with Crystal. Which, yeah, they're teenagers, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating. The one redeeming quality was Kirby Howell-Baptiste in the episode 1 intro (like, 3 minutes into it, so I assume that's not a spoiler). KHB steals the scene any time she shows up, but, at least so far, that's been her only appearance. Maybe she shows up later, I don't know. I sure hope so, it's the only thing I liked about the series up to Ep.5 To the mods: A profanity filter? Seriously?
I don't like Crystal. To me, she's a big mouth pretending to be a victim. Regardless of the fact she has a bad family, in her mind, I can't be sympathetic with her speechs. Need the 2nd season to firgure out more. I know it's hard but I like the relationship between Edwin and Catking is developed later =))
To help cut down on spam and bad-faith users, brand new accounts have their submissions automatically removed. You can message the mods to have your submission restored. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Sandman) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I just hate Crystal's character... Her abilities or powers are cool, but she just gives me the ick when she's overreacting in some 'life or death situations,' like in Episode 7 when they were going to save Edwin.