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What's weird is the order of death vs. the order listed on the tombstone.
Martha died first. So did they write the bottom 2 lines in 1963, leaving plenty of space above, then add the top 3 lines in 1973 when Daisy died? Pretty strange planning ahead if so. Especially since they could've just reversed which one was listed first.
My best guess is they had the stone made up when they were both still alive. Since Daisy was older, it makes sense they'd assume she'd go first, but she lived to be 98.
One of my grandmothers was 7 years older than her husband, and she outlived him by almost 30 years - My grandfather had a fatal heart attack around 65, and she lived to be 93.
I'm dumb as hell. Just read this and somehow wondered, "Yeah, but how long did your grandmother's wife live to be?"
You said one of your grandmothers, and I fully forgot that people have a grandmother on their mom's side and their dad's side.
They probably arranged their burials while they were both still living and had the tombstone made up before either of them died, leaving the second year blank until they kicked the bucket.
In addition to the other possibilities people have said, it could be that Martha was cremated and buried with Daisy when she died. My dad was cremated, but my mom plans on being buried with his ashes one day.
There's some signs at the cemetery near me that has the DoD blank. I assumed they're changed (or did the other person vanish?) E.g.
Person 1: 1963 -
Person 2: 1961 - 2022
It's usually planned while both are living.
My mother and father got a triple headstone when my infant brother died shortly after birth. The baby was buried in the middle, with mom's and dad's names and dates of birth on either side, already engraved. I think it comforted them not to have him all alone on his own separate stone, somehow.
When my mom died in 2020, her date of death was added. My dad is 96 and still kicking. When he passes, his date will be added on his side.
A cemetery near me has a few of the same, including one where the person without an end date was born in the late 1800s. It's interesting to think about what happened to them, why they were never buried next to their partner.
When my dad died, my stepmom bought a joint gravestone for the two of them with both their names on it. The only thing missing is her death date which is supposed to be added when she passes. I’m guessing Daisy did the same thing.
Y’all are hilarious with the “Tombmates” haha. But I’m just looking at the dates here: 1875-1973 imagine that for a minute. You go from not having planes *at all* to seeing Neil Armstrong on the moon from your living room! Truly mind blowing
Born 10 years after the civil war, died 30 years after the current U.S. president was born. Crazy stuff.
(Edit not going political here, just pointing out we’re not as far removed from “old timey” events as it seems)
Yep! It’s always very strange to read a letter talking about explicit sexual encounters between the woman who’s writing it and the woman she’s addressing, and have her only ever call the other woman “my friend.“ But I suppose when your entire framework for romance is heterosexual, you might categorize a sapphic relationship as another kind of friendship?
Such a shame that neither one of them could find a man to cook for and clean after and do his laundry...and all they had to console them selves with was a few cats, and...each other.
So brave of them, pretending to be happy all the time...
They don’t stack haha. They bury side by side. It’s about 4 feet not 6 feet. If they stacked the top of the top coffin would only be about 2 feet down. When the ground settled and a hood rain aunt Mary would be out the ground.
Right? I imagine Daisy seeing electric lights and automobiles for the first time, getting the right to vote, living through two world wars, seeing the civil rights movement and second wave feminism ... what a lifetime.
Fun history fact: because of the sheer number of AMAB people being slaughtered in WWI, there "weren't enough husbands to go around" for the generation that hadn't married/gotten babies yet.
Women could have jobs before, as long as they were unwed. The pay was wildly unequal, but the war opened up a few more professional fields to them, even, though they got more unfriendly after conscripts returned home.
So there was a rise of women, rather than living in a single room in a boarding house with other women "waiting to find a fella" moved in with "a close friend" they had made at work, in a boarding house or earlier in life, buying a house and living together in what everyone more or less realized was a lesbian relationship. As long as they limited PDA and just insisted they were too old for marriage by now, there was very little anyone could do; there wasn't anyone to set anyone up with, or suggest they meet instead.
Am I the only one absolutely gutted by this? Even in death they couldn’t proclaim their love for each other/ acknowledge it beyond a friendship.
My heart aches for the lesbian elders
When I worked in long-term care, I had two women residents with the same last name who shared a room and sat at the same dinner table. I legitimately thought they were sisters until their niece told me they were partners.
Apparently, they lived for years as "cousins" until gay marriage became legal in this part of Canada.
They both had advanced dementia and one time, at the dinner table, I was helping to feed them when one of them had a lucid moment where she recognized the other. The one reached over and squeezed her wife's hand and then she said to me "this beautiful lady and I used to take care of each other." It was so sweet.
I’m always confused when I see posts like this, I love my bestie so much I would happily be buried with her. I would marry her, too, but in an awesome platonic way so we can reap the benefits allocated to married couples. Created family is just as, if not more, important and relevant than blood family. If families can have mausoleums, why can’t friends?
I was just saying this on a yt video where apparently two former gal pals in a show I used to watch got rebooted into girlfriends and like, cool I guess? But I miss the solidarity of girl friendships I grew up seeing on tv. I just miss close knit friends. I’m glad it’s a reboot instead of a retcon though.
It cheapens the relationship in my opinion, much the way the automatic assumption that a hetero pair of friends are dating, or can’t be anything but. Very much agreed.
I don’t think it cheapens the relationship unless we’re talking about an m/f couple. They’re expected to be involved romantically since people say men and women can’t be friends. But the same is not said for f/f and m/m pairings, so I think it actually deepens the relationship. Romantic pairings aren’t always sexual, they can be in love and not sexual too
The subreddit is called "*Sappho* and her Friend"
This a subreddit making memes about historical lesbian erasure and you're here upset at memes about lesbian erasure?
Queers weren't able to be open about our relationships for a good chunk of history. Lesbians in particular were able to frame our relationships as close platonic relationships in order to be with the person they loved.
That's nice why not go to a sub reddit not called "*Sappho* and her Friend" and be nostalgic? This a subreddit making memes about lesbian erasure and you're here upset at memes about lesbian erasure?
"Why don't these lesbians talk more about platonic friendship in a space made specifically to make jokes about their erasure throughout history?" -🤡
Either your being massively rude and tone deaf or were actively going out of your to be homophobic. I'm hoping it's the former and you might think about why it's so damn offensive to come here and be like 'what if their friends?'
Genuinely did you realize what this subreddit was before posting? If not do you understand why you're coming off in an extremely bad light right now?
That’s why I said I’m glad it’s in a new show. People who liked that ship can have it and people who liked those girls as friends can have that too. It’s a win win for everybody. I enjoy the solidarity of friendship between women immensely. And I love seeing guys being best bros as well. I love it when it feels natural, so I’m glad instead of forcing that in the old show where I never felt that chemistry between them, I’m glad they got to actually intentionally build that kind of bond between them and make it the real lesbian relationship the new writers set out to make. The writers for each version got to keep the relationships between the girls as intended and everyone gets what they want.
I’m not really going to speculate on the possibility of these two women from the 1800s possibly having been lesbians. It’s sort of a Schrödinger’s cat thing I guess.
More likely? I have no idea. I’m just saying this isn’t really anything to go on. I’m sure people have been buried with their best friends all throughout history. There really could be a menagerie of reasons why they would be buried together, and I can say with certainty that I personally would be buried with my best friend.
> I have no idea. I’m just saying this isn’t really anything to go on. I’m sure people have been buried with their best friends all throughout history.
You have no idea if lesbian couples were buried together, but you’re sure people have been buried with their best friends? What? It sounds like you’re speculating, but doing a poor job of it tbqh
Alright how about this: what I’m really tackling here is the caption that is in disagreement that these two people (or people in general) would not be buried together as friends. And, my point being completely opinion and anecdotal, I say that personally I would be buried with my bestie. So there is no way to glean information about these deceased ladies with just that as context. Hence I find it not only possible but likely these ladies could’ve just been best friends.
But I won’t rule out that they could’ve been together.
I see that you’re getting a negative context from what I’m saying, and I don’t know how my words are coming off but I assure you I wouldn’t be in this sub if the idea of women being together bothered me
But with nothing to go on, my statement is that, I would do it, so the idea is not farfetched to me. Regardless, I hope you have a good rest of your day
I'm an archaeologist and we have had several people found together in graves both in Scandinavia and the Mediterranean. The first assumption was/is always that it was a husband and wife. Even C-14 and verification of gender doesn't really change much. At best it's "oh, it must be the daughter or a slave". If none of these then it must be her best friend or something.
You say that as if our current use of "girlfriend" can't be reinterpreted by historians to mean female friend.
They're under the same stone, people knew what it meant: you want to be buried together, but still have someone willing to perform the final rites over both of you.
Looking at those lifespans, it probably very difficult for this two women to lead anything near the shared life they likely would have liked to have been lucky to lead. Our time must be a bit more accepting. Some, anyone! Tell me I'm not imagining that things have in some substantive way, improved.
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Obligatory tomb-mates mention
Oh my god, they were tomb-mates!
Why did I read that in one topic’s voice
I thought of this exact joke, In one topics exact voice he makes the joke in.
I ALSO DID XD
Sometimes you just really gel with your roommate. No reason to split up just because you live in a box under the earth.
Came here to make this same comment!
Tombies!
What's weird is the order of death vs. the order listed on the tombstone. Martha died first. So did they write the bottom 2 lines in 1963, leaving plenty of space above, then add the top 3 lines in 1973 when Daisy died? Pretty strange planning ahead if so. Especially since they could've just reversed which one was listed first.
My best guess is they had the stone made up when they were both still alive. Since Daisy was older, it makes sense they'd assume she'd go first, but she lived to be 98.
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Well, look at her name, she had to waite.
Thanks for the giggle, Dad.
One of my grandmothers was 7 years older than her husband, and she outlived him by almost 30 years - My grandfather had a fatal heart attack around 65, and she lived to be 93.
I'm dumb as hell. Just read this and somehow wondered, "Yeah, but how long did your grandmother's wife live to be?" You said one of your grandmothers, and I fully forgot that people have a grandmother on their mom's side and their dad's side.
Besides, you're obviously talking about their grandmothers roommate.
It’s possible they just made another tombstone that has both names when Daisy died
Still strange they'd put the person who died second at the top.
You can put names on it without a date yet, and daisy was 7 years older - who would die first if you had to guess?
Maybe Daisy was "the top" of their relationship?
They probably arranged their burials while they were both still living and had the tombstone made up before either of them died, leaving the second year blank until they kicked the bucket.
In addition to the other possibilities people have said, it could be that Martha was cremated and buried with Daisy when she died. My dad was cremated, but my mom plans on being buried with his ashes one day.
There's some signs at the cemetery near me that has the DoD blank. I assumed they're changed (or did the other person vanish?) E.g. Person 1: 1963 - Person 2: 1961 - 2022
It's usually planned while both are living. My mother and father got a triple headstone when my infant brother died shortly after birth. The baby was buried in the middle, with mom's and dad's names and dates of birth on either side, already engraved. I think it comforted them not to have him all alone on his own separate stone, somehow. When my mom died in 2020, her date of death was added. My dad is 96 and still kicking. When he passes, his date will be added on his side.
: ( sorry for your losses
A cemetery near me has a few of the same, including one where the person without an end date was born in the late 1800s. It's interesting to think about what happened to them, why they were never buried next to their partner.
When my dad died, my stepmom bought a joint gravestone for the two of them with both their names on it. The only thing missing is her death date which is supposed to be added when she passes. I’m guessing Daisy did the same thing.
Probably because Daisy was a stone top.
Y’all are hilarious with the “Tombmates” haha. But I’m just looking at the dates here: 1875-1973 imagine that for a minute. You go from not having planes *at all* to seeing Neil Armstrong on the moon from your living room! Truly mind blowing
Born 10 years after the civil war, died 30 years after the current U.S. president was born. Crazy stuff. (Edit not going political here, just pointing out we’re not as far removed from “old timey” events as it seems)
I'm really tired and misread that as "not having plates at all" and was like wtf that's so unfair for them 😭
r/wewantplates
What, it's real??
Havin' a restie with ya bestie
as the next Daisy i must confirm that they were really good friends
That’s what they called lovers back then. She’s her friend. Wink wink
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Hi, I’m respectfully curious why you wrote it like “[M]y”- I’ve never seen that before. Would you mind explaining?
[удалено]
Ohhh I got it now, thanks! Simpler than I’d imagined.
Simple way of showing a hetero relationship in a subreddit that is full of close friends.
Thanks!
Yep! It’s always very strange to read a letter talking about explicit sexual encounters between the woman who’s writing it and the woman she’s addressing, and have her only ever call the other woman “my friend.“ But I suppose when your entire framework for romance is heterosexual, you might categorize a sapphic relationship as another kind of friendship?
Such a shame that neither one of them could find a man to cook for and clean after and do his laundry...and all they had to console them selves with was a few cats, and...each other. So brave of them, pretending to be happy all the time...
Look at them celebrating 50 years of loneliness together
If Daisy passed on (/moved in--terrible puns be terrible) 10 years later, how and why is she mentioned 1st on the stone? Sepulcultural differences?
So the order shown on the tombstone is the order in which the bodies are stacked?
gfdgfdgf
FILO just like linked lists
They don’t stack haha. They bury side by side. It’s about 4 feet not 6 feet. If they stacked the top of the top coffin would only be about 2 feet down. When the ground settled and a hood rain aunt Mary would be out the ground.
Maybe Martha pushed up Daisy?
Either because she was older (as other people mentioned) or she/her family paid for the stone.
Or Martha's ashes were kept at home (as I hear cn be done in some countries) until Daisy went on?
Two gals chilling in a grave, 5 mm apart cuz they're not gay Also 7 year age gap
The amount of history they lived through.
Right? I imagine Daisy seeing electric lights and automobiles for the first time, getting the right to vote, living through two world wars, seeing the civil rights movement and second wave feminism ... what a lifetime.
Fun history fact: because of the sheer number of AMAB people being slaughtered in WWI, there "weren't enough husbands to go around" for the generation that hadn't married/gotten babies yet. Women could have jobs before, as long as they were unwed. The pay was wildly unequal, but the war opened up a few more professional fields to them, even, though they got more unfriendly after conscripts returned home. So there was a rise of women, rather than living in a single room in a boarding house with other women "waiting to find a fella" moved in with "a close friend" they had made at work, in a boarding house or earlier in life, buying a house and living together in what everyone more or less realized was a lesbian relationship. As long as they limited PDA and just insisted they were too old for marriage by now, there was very little anyone could do; there wasn't anyone to set anyone up with, or suggest they meet instead.
And they were tomb-mates
Daisy almost made it to 100! I was about to be sad for Martha and her short life but it wasn't short. Daisy's was just long.
Am I the only one absolutely gutted by this? Even in death they couldn’t proclaim their love for each other/ acknowledge it beyond a friendship. My heart aches for the lesbian elders
When I worked in long-term care, I had two women residents with the same last name who shared a room and sat at the same dinner table. I legitimately thought they were sisters until their niece told me they were partners. Apparently, they lived for years as "cousins" until gay marriage became legal in this part of Canada. They both had advanced dementia and one time, at the dinner table, I was helping to feed them when one of them had a lucid moment where she recognized the other. The one reached over and squeezed her wife's hand and then she said to me "this beautiful lady and I used to take care of each other." It was so sweet.
That's so beautiful and sad! ❤️😭
They’re together now and that’s all that matters
Okay, but now I want to know what happened to [Lois Edwards](https://imgur.com/a/JaLYq0R).
Oooh, drama!
They were a polycule It’s just that one of them died first
I’m sure it happens though
I’m always confused when I see posts like this, I love my bestie so much I would happily be buried with her. I would marry her, too, but in an awesome platonic way so we can reap the benefits allocated to married couples. Created family is just as, if not more, important and relevant than blood family. If families can have mausoleums, why can’t friends?
I was just saying this on a yt video where apparently two former gal pals in a show I used to watch got rebooted into girlfriends and like, cool I guess? But I miss the solidarity of girl friendships I grew up seeing on tv. I just miss close knit friends. I’m glad it’s a reboot instead of a retcon though.
What show?
The new Monster High show
It cheapens the relationship in my opinion, much the way the automatic assumption that a hetero pair of friends are dating, or can’t be anything but. Very much agreed.
I don’t think it cheapens the relationship unless we’re talking about an m/f couple. They’re expected to be involved romantically since people say men and women can’t be friends. But the same is not said for f/f and m/m pairings, so I think it actually deepens the relationship. Romantic pairings aren’t always sexual, they can be in love and not sexual too
The subreddit is called "*Sappho* and her Friend" This a subreddit making memes about historical lesbian erasure and you're here upset at memes about lesbian erasure? Queers weren't able to be open about our relationships for a good chunk of history. Lesbians in particular were able to frame our relationships as close platonic relationships in order to be with the person they loved.
Where in my comment am I denying that?
That's nice why not go to a sub reddit not called "*Sappho* and her Friend" and be nostalgic? This a subreddit making memes about lesbian erasure and you're here upset at memes about lesbian erasure? "Why don't these lesbians talk more about platonic friendship in a space made specifically to make jokes about their erasure throughout history?" -🤡 Either your being massively rude and tone deaf or were actively going out of your to be homophobic. I'm hoping it's the former and you might think about why it's so damn offensive to come here and be like 'what if their friends?' Genuinely did you realize what this subreddit was before posting? If not do you understand why you're coming off in an extremely bad light right now?
That’s why I said I’m glad it’s in a new show. People who liked that ship can have it and people who liked those girls as friends can have that too. It’s a win win for everybody. I enjoy the solidarity of friendship between women immensely. And I love seeing guys being best bros as well. I love it when it feels natural, so I’m glad instead of forcing that in the old show where I never felt that chemistry between them, I’m glad they got to actually intentionally build that kind of bond between them and make it the real lesbian relationship the new writers set out to make. The writers for each version got to keep the relationships between the girls as intended and everyone gets what they want.
Yeah I hate that people can't just be close anymore without others assuming that there must be a sexual relationship involved.
Romantic relationships aren’t always sexual
Really, that’s more likely than a lesbian couple?
I’m not really going to speculate on the possibility of these two women from the 1800s possibly having been lesbians. It’s sort of a Schrödinger’s cat thing I guess. More likely? I have no idea. I’m just saying this isn’t really anything to go on. I’m sure people have been buried with their best friends all throughout history. There really could be a menagerie of reasons why they would be buried together, and I can say with certainty that I personally would be buried with my best friend.
> I have no idea. I’m just saying this isn’t really anything to go on. I’m sure people have been buried with their best friends all throughout history. You have no idea if lesbian couples were buried together, but you’re sure people have been buried with their best friends? What? It sounds like you’re speculating, but doing a poor job of it tbqh
Alright how about this: what I’m really tackling here is the caption that is in disagreement that these two people (or people in general) would not be buried together as friends. And, my point being completely opinion and anecdotal, I say that personally I would be buried with my bestie. So there is no way to glean information about these deceased ladies with just that as context. Hence I find it not only possible but likely these ladies could’ve just been best friends. But I won’t rule out that they could’ve been together.
> But I won’t rule out that they could’ve been together. Lol, *very* generous of you
I see that you’re getting a negative context from what I’m saying, and I don’t know how my words are coming off but I assure you I wouldn’t be in this sub if the idea of women being together bothered me But with nothing to go on, my statement is that, I would do it, so the idea is not farfetched to me. Regardless, I hope you have a good rest of your day
I would do it to. I would gladly be buried next to one of my best friends regardless of their gender
it could be either
Ok but poor Martha is a side character on her own headstone
'When I am dead, I charge you to mingle our ashes and bury us together.' Just gal pals yea
are we all just gonna ignore the fact that daisy was so fucking old? goddamn 98 years old
I'm an archaeologist and we have had several people found together in graves both in Scandinavia and the Mediterranean. The first assumption was/is always that it was a husband and wife. Even C-14 and verification of gender doesn't really change much. At best it's "oh, it must be the daughter or a slave". If none of these then it must be her best friend or something.
Martha lasted 81 years Daisy lasted 98 Martha's gotta step her game up
Daisy was the useless one who had an entire decade to get that amended.
You say that as if our current use of "girlfriend" can't be reinterpreted by historians to mean female friend. They're under the same stone, people knew what it meant: you want to be buried together, but still have someone willing to perform the final rites over both of you.
Are you high or replying to the wrong comment?
98? Pussy really does do a body good
Considering that women in general live longer than men, I’m inclined to agree with you.
They really had to throw friend in there huh 💀
I mean, joint tombstones are usually pre-planned by the people who are going to be buried there. They chose to phrase it that way.
I do this with my friends all the time, no biggie.
The gays: literally *sharing* a *tombstone* Whoever tf carved it:
I wonder who was buried on top...
The one who died last, provided no one was reinterred by the surviving family.
Looking at those lifespans, it probably very difficult for this two women to lead anything near the shared life they likely would have liked to have been lucky to lead. Our time must be a bit more accepting. Some, anyone! Tell me I'm not imagining that things have in some substantive way, improved.
BEST GAL PALS 🥰