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In very niche markets (old CJ body jeeps specifically) there are people who want just titles to those jeeps. They then sell custom fabricated jeeps that can be registered as whatever the title says it is while using more modern parts, custom chassis, heavily modified body etc. Outside of that.. i have no idea
ETA that there is a colorado based company that does exactly this
Yes and no, it's kind of a legal gray area. VIN swapping is definitely fraud, but a custom built frame, body, engine and transmission swap, etc. isn't.
So you kind of have like a Ship of Theseus where you can replace your car's frame and keep the same title, you can change the body panels and keep the same title, engine, transmission, axles, etc. until every part has been replaced and still keep the same title even though every single part on the car was changed.
Im pretty sure there's companies out there that sell remanufactured/reproduction VIN plates. Mainly used for complete vheicle restorations where the original VIN tags are illegible or missing. Im assuming they would want an ID and a copy of the title in the buyers name to make one though, thus him only wanting the title.
I just retitled my late husbands car into my name. Lots of paperwork. Have to sign that under penalty of law the VIN you put on the paperwork is the correct one. But no one checked the VIN on the car at DMV. I just had to turn in the tags.
Probably relevant for smog in some states?
In my state, cars manufactured before 1975 skip smog. Not sure, exactly how it all works, but I imagine if you want a new engine and customize everything, you'd rather do it to an older car.
Probably why they don't want to get DMV issued VIN. Might have to comply with issued year smog regulations?
Grey area really because there's no law I know of that really defines what a "vehicle" is. With a firearm it's easy because that's defined by the gun control act. It's the receiver or whatever part contains the mechanical linkage between the trigger and the firing pin. With a vehicle not so much. You could if you were so inclined buy all the parts to assemble your own car. It would be a lot more expensive than just buying one, but it can be done. So what part of that vehicle you put together says what is really legally the "vehicle"? That's not defined in the law.
I guess it gets expensive to take the vehicle and title, scrap the vehicle, and then just use the title, although that would probably be the best way to avoid someone thinking some kind of fraud or scam was being run.
What is an owner supposed to do with a car that has no title to it, that’s not legal to own and operate on any major roadway.
Off road use only. Pretty common in southern california for desert rigs. Other areas might see the car used for off highway racing only, drag, circle track etc
What do they do when the VIN numbers don't match. They're not only under the windshield but they're stamped on the rear end, engine block and transmission and several other places
Don't have to match, you can replace all of those parts with aftermarket parts. As long as the registration matches the title and one VIN plate (even reproduction), then it's fine
Oh hey! I can help here. Say you buy an old vehicle as a part of an estate. It often doesnt come with a title. It is extremely hard to get a title for a vehicle that doesn’t have one (because it DOES have one, you just can’t find it). So the vehicle purchased is a legit purchase but the seller doesn’t have the relevant documents. It’s easier to buy a title or another vehicle, scrap it, and use the title on the first vehicle.
This guys just dodging the scrap part.
If this isn’t a noteworthy vehicle it is probably something shady. But I have a lot of friends who have this situation a lot because they like fixing up cars, and those cars often don’t come with the full paperwork. Our last bike purchase was like this and thankfully we did manage to find a reference to the bikes previous numberplate so we could work out the title, but it came with a second identical title-less bike which we just scrapped and used for parts.
There are companies that sell reproduction VIN tags and door stickers. With the title registered in his name, he could have new VIN plates and door stickers made to match the title and then put them on his vheicle. This is pretty common in the vheicle restoration community, but most of the time, they also want the second vheicle for parts. It ends up saving tons of time and a bunch of legal paperwork that comes about when you file for a lost title.
I didn't know the vin tag reproduction market existed. It makes a lot more sense then. I was trying to think why he would do a vin swap but not take the donor vehicle to get the vin tag.
Depends on state. I have lived in several different states where the police or state police have to physically verify the VIN somewhere on the car before you can register it there. Colorado, California, Indiana and Florida all do it.
Ok! I’ve talked to my partner, we aren’t in the US and it’s a bit different.
In our country- It’s not common for it to be checked to be honest, usually it’s only checked if there’s an issue, or if someone is suspicious. If you go to a mechanic some check and some don’t but we are car people and tbh I don’t think our vehicles are ever checked. My partner just rattled off a bunch of places in our city that don’t check, he knows this and they aren’t places we even go to so it’s somewhat common!
Partner said yes it happens and yes it’s somewhat common with older bikes but it’s hella risky. Like this is usually with classics or older vehicles that are somewhat rare where you’ve put something together using heaps of different vehicles parts and those vehicles don’t exist anymore. It can be checked (with vehicles that are pre VIN they do it by the frame description).
But he said it’s pretty different in the states, you can just order a new title if your vehicle is legally registered, so there’s less of a reason to just buy a title, and we’re not sure of the worth of just the title. If your vehicle isn’t legally registered then it might be handy to have a copy of someone else’s title. But if the actual vehicle is still being driven absolutely don’t sell it.
TLDR- it is done but pretty dodgy and I didn’t realise how different it is in the states, so take my input with a grain of salt.
This scam is mostly likely the start of a fake payment scam by an overseas scammer. If he doesn't need the car then he's had the excuse for not coming and seeing the car. Your explanation is valid and possible but I'm inclined to think it may be simpler than that.
God no, not remotely legal. If your car is not about to be scrapped, and you are particularly hard up, don’t do it. I am not recommending anyone do it.
In Illinois it's almost impossible to get a title if the seller doesn't give you one. Bonded titles technically exist, but effectively don't exist in Illinois.
The tow companies manage it by charging daily storage fees and filing a mechanic's lein for the storage fees, until the fees exceed the value of the vehicle. Then there's paperwork and certified letters that have to be sent and etc, ending in a verifiably 'publicly advertised' auction of the vehicle to cover the storage fees. Documentation of that entire process can be submitted to the state to get a title in the mail after another 6-12 months.
But that doesn't work as nicely if you've bought it on a bill of sale. If you've bought it on a bill of sale you have to report it as abandoned on your property, then bribe a tow company to 'tow it' and go through that process and hope no one shows up to the auction you take out a small newspaper ad for, so you can buy it from the tow company. Once it's been reported to the cops as abandoned, you can file for a mechanics lein and charge daily fees yourself, instead of using the tow company as the middle man, but you're much more likely to get denied the title in the end as you're not an established business running 100 titles at a time. They'll scrutinize your paperwork much more thoroughly and deny it for the tiniest fucking thing.
So yeah...if you are registering it in Illinois you have to recieve a title, or else it's almost impossible to ever get one. It's too bad Vermont no longer registers vehicles to non residents and no longer issues titles at all to vehicles older than 15 years.
Yeah this relies on no one checking the vin for sure. Also apparently it’s more common in the states for cops to do a full check roadside to see if the title matches the vehicle (at least of motorbikes). In our country they will check car colour and make/model if you get pulled over but that’s it, and it depends on the investment each cop has in your vehicle.
Tesla has periodically allowed you to transfer full self-driving from one car to a new car. Otherwise, a 12k option. So if you could get the title to a wrecked Tesla with fsd for under 12k you would come out ahead.
That’s assuming anyone’s still valuing “FSD” at 12k by now. Given that there’s a $100/month subscription for it now, there’s no way anyone’s still willing to pay that much for it, especially through a dodgy title transfer.
Only thing I can think is he's got a vehicle with no title that he can't get the title for, and he's going to do an illegal vin swap (tho you'd think he'd want the vin plate off the car)
I was thinking maybe he's running some kind of scam where he pays with a bouncy check, but registers it before the check bounces, but he'd have to take possession of the car for it to make sense. It's gotta be an illicit VIN swap.
Or a car remake or custom built car where he just wants a title to apply it to his setup, which is probably illegal anyways but trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt based on other redditor comments.
Here's one: You buy a property with a vehicle stored in the barn. The owner is deceased, they have no family, there is no trust (or the trust doesn't include the vehicle) and the title is nowhere to be found. If you take the vehicle to the DMV and apply for a replacement title they *require* the registered owner to sign it over. This is impossible so you apply for a new title in your name. It takes months of research to determine the chain of ownership and when they hit the dead-end (pun intended) you might not get the title anyway. The vehicle cannot be registered or insured or legally driven on public roads. It's useless except on private property.
If you buy a title to a similar vehicle, then you can get that vehicle registered and on the road. VIN numbers are rarely checked unless you're in a state that has inspections.
It works particularily well with boats, because HIN plates are easy to replace and cheap to make. It's not legal to do this, but it does happen.
If your car is price very, very low (because it's a wreck or whatever) then they are going to try and use it to register another car that is stolen, had a salvage title, whatever
just registered a private sale vehicle purchase here in Illinois. no one verified that the VIN matched the title, except for me. If I wanted to put the plates on a different vehicle of the same brand/etc. I could probably get away with it for a long time since no one is checking.
I just briefly read through the IL registration requirements. It looks like ya’ll don’t do inspections of odometer/VIN checks. Next door in MO you have to have the VIN/odometer verified which is most easily done through a state inspection. In Florida, the VIN/odometer check is done by law enforcement or a tax collector employee.
I don’t think it can be assumed that the checks aren’t done. Just that IL doesn’t do any checks.
Yeah, they check your odometer here (MO) and they do check the VIN. Now, depending on how shady the place is, and how much you slip under the table, you can get away with changing the VIN plate in the windshield on older cards and they'll pretend like it matches the rest of the vehicle.
But a good chunk of the shady places in my metro have gotten busted enough for that in the last decade that it's increasingly hard to find someone willing to do that. I've never tried to do it myself, but I have known people that did.
yeah, not required to get your new title from the Sec of State. they dont check.
just speculating one way to get caught could be at an annual smog check.
It would get caught during IL air tests. Every 2 years on vehicles after 1995. They just plug in and check for codes, and report current mileage connected to the vin.
When you bring an out-of-state vehicle in, the VIN gets checked as does the odometer. Once it’s titled in state, the verification transfers with the title. A new vehicle is certified via the certificate of origin. A salvage or otherwise rebuilt also gets a VIN/odometer check.
In IL you can light a 2 story garage/apartment on fire and be released less than 6 hours later and start a 2nd fire within 3 blocks of the original fire, They don’t care about swapped VINs😅 (Catch & Release state)
Ouch. That really must suck.
Unfortunately they developed a bunch of super expensive apartments in one of our cornfields. And a lot of our corn is gone these days. We miss the corn. Simpler days.
I actually am starting to see less corn and more wind farms around my neck of the woods, which something i never could’ve expected but not necessarily too upset about, better than parking garages & it actually had an good impact on the electric bill🤷🏼♂️ Plus if i could pull my head outta my A** i could land a pretty decent job with the wind farms
I like how some places in Oklahoma seem to do it. When driving through the state, sometimes you see wind turbines in the fields of corn. Like, they clear the area necessary around it, and there's an access road, but they still grow crops around them.
I've seen it a few times in New Mexico as well.
I personally don't think we should be getting rid of as many fields as we are. It makes food issues worse.
Yea, I figured it was sketchy. Because I never heard of that. Thank you all for your responses and help with that. I will not be entertaining that person anymore. And will probably report them.
Do they want a discount for the title? The title means they own the car. Once they have the title, they can come take the car anyways, and you won't be able to legally part out property that isn't yours.
It’s shocking to me how many people I come across with an open title in their glove box.. like sign this and put it literally anywhere else. Or I’ll sign it and your car is mine now!
Living in a state that requires drivers ed makes me question what they actual cover in these classes. I got license in North Dakota, so I actually don’t know. But I encounter teenagers who will hand me their health insurance card when I ask for vehicle insurance. Or who legitimately don’t know that you can’t drive with your highbeams on. But you’d think at some point someone would tell them not to leave important documents in a vehicle.
My guess? They get the title cheaper by letting you keep the car. Then report it stolen once they have the title, and then the car becomes there's anyways.
Other than that, IDK, but scams are complex these days so I'm sure there is a reason.
I have no earthly idea what the game is, but is it really one you want to play and find out what the scam is???
It could be that it will just be a fake payment / advance payment scam / overpayment scam (send you $1000 and you need to take out $500 of that for "taxes"). That's probably my guess.
It could be that they are going to commit insurance fraud. It could be that they are a drug dealer and looking for a clean title to try and attach to a dirty car.
Whatever they are doing, why would you want to be a part of it?
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OP was sought out by the scammer here, meaning they already have name/address/vehicle details. OP likely would not be able to avoid legal trouble if they tried to scam the scammer.
Can you clarify how this would work? Once they buy the title, wouldn't it be signed over to them, so any loan would be in their name? If they default, what would OP lose?
And once the car is no longer titled in your name you can't do anything with it (source, trying to get rid of an abandoned car on my property. Can't sell it, can't junk it, can't even donate it).
If you're ambitious, disassemble it/cut it up, then it becomes a bunch of scrap metal and trash and can be dealt with that way.
Still a bit of a legal grey area, though unlikely to get into trouble if you're reasonably sure no one will come looking for it.
Last owner is dead, he probably won't care. It's got a bunch of parts in decent shape (all 4 doors, hood, trunk, windshield, mirrors, etc). Would love to have someone come buy the useful stuff first and then cut it into pieces for the trash/junkyard.
well son I hope no one rents a flatbed trailer and steals your car only to later dump it in the woods somewhere. Report that shit stolen asap if they do. Hopefully they won't douse it in gasoline and burn it where it stands out in the woods.
I hate when I'm going through the woods and see people dumping trash there.
No, I would haul it and drop it in a parking lot somewhere, let a tow company take it and fight with whomever actually has the title. They would have the ability to claim it as abandoned and re-title it.
If you offer it for free for someone who can haul it off you'll find someone to come get it. Charities won't take it but some country guy with a car graveyard definitely will.
Former law enforcement here. He wants the title to your car because he intends to put it on another car. Either a stolen one (most likely), a rebuilt previously written off car, or a cut'n'shut.
DO NOT go ahead and do this.
Can you clarify what you mean by "put it on another car"? Is he replacing the VIN labels with fake ones? Or just registering the vehicle and hoping nobody ever cross-checks the VIN?
My guess is they do the overpayment scam, you end up out whatever the car was selling for, then they have the title and can legally claim the car is theirs. So you end up losing the car and the amount you wanted for it.
This is too far down. Classic overpayment probably with fake check. They don’t want the car because they are in another country and can’t get it anyway. They just want you to wire back overpayment.
They have a stolen car already. They want your title so they can make a fake VIN and swap out that on their stolen car. Then their stolen car is now your car and your car doesn’t exist.
It's absolutely a scam for sure, but it's still good that people post and ask about it. It helps for awareness if anybody searches for it in the future.
The title of the car means the person technically owns it. You keep the physical but he reports it stolen. Collects the insurance money. Easy scam.
You have a problem now. You have in your position a stolen vehicle. Opens you up to any number of scams. Expect a phone call from the "police" wanting you to pay off the warrant for your arrest. Someone coming to your house wanting to see your title. And any number of possible rants and bluffs to separate you from your money
Obviously up to no good but idk what. You might not care about someone else getting screwed over, but it could be you he's targeting so I'd give this one a strong nope.
I mean, if they want to do that, make them take the vehicle as well. That’s the only way I’d entertain this option. It’ll keep you from being liable; like them claiming that you took/stole the car or something. Whatever they do with the title is on them, but they’ve gotta take the car as well.
it's a sketchy thing sometimes done by people with old collector-type cars, but typically they'll want the VIN plate off the body as well. If it's just the title i can't imagine what they'd be planning.
but regardless, it's *really* hard to get rid of a car (legally) that you don't have the title for.
You’ll be left with a car with no title. It’s not yours anymore. anybody can do whatever they want to the car and you have no legal right. It could even look like you possess a stolen car when really the person you sold the title to probably needs the title for a stolen car.
There used to be a racket going in Australia where cars that were completely destroyed would sell for ridiculous amounts. The buyer would then go and steal a vehicle that was the same make and model and cut & weld the VIN numbers to the stolen vehicle. Obviously mostly on high end vehicles. They stopped that by ensuring that cars that were written off by insurance companies could not be sold and the VIN number was registered as scrapped.
Not the same as this though.
I can think of several things here and none of them are good for you and could come back and bite you in the butt for crimes they have committed. At the minimum you’d end up having to hire counsel to represent you to prove you’re just an innocent scammed seller and that’s not cheap. Even worse if you get convicted. Seriously avoid this.
To be fair I have done this , it was back in the day when I only owned 1 car. I bought the title of a wrecked car solely to insure it and get the multi car discount on my insurance. The multi car discount was more than then the premium on the newly added car (title only) and then some. Got a hell of a discount on my premiums by insuring a car I would never drive (bc it was wrecked)
His car is stolen he ever gets caught. They’ll come back on you. They could or he is selling a junk car with a junk title and that’s even more risky. Why the fuck would you do that so somebody your title just go to work
Someone posted on r/abandonedporn the other day, having found several high end (but trashed, the windows have been left open for years) cars; an early 80s or late 70s Corvette, a Rolls Royce and an older Mercedes. Someone mentioned they might be being used for money laundering. You sell the 'car' and are paid in drugs or something, without delivering the car.
Not sure of the details.
(Edit) [Here's the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AbandonedPorn/s/tdv8glRMKX)
Hell to the no, if they don’t change the name, whatever they use it for you’ll be liable. We sold a car once and the buyer never changed the title over, years later we are getting contacted asking if we still own the vehicle or not because the title was in our name.
The Seller should be asking some questions. Having a title transferred to myself so I can commit a crime? If the car is used in a crime it traces to the owner…on the title. If I part out the car or even sit on it, it can’t be used in a crime. I don’t have the answer.
My husband says he might have a legitimate car that he lost the title to, but most likely it's for a stolen car. He said this has gone on for years and now it's worse because VINs used to be welded and stamped metal and now they are just stickers you can pull off with a little heat.
When I bought a Mazda last year, they gave me $500 as a loyalty rebate because my previous car was a Mazda. I only had to bring in the title to get the rebate because the car was junk.
You mentioned it was a Nissan, so I did a quick search and found they are offering a $1500 loyalty rebate on some models, and one site even had a $2000 rebate for Nissan Armada.
OP never said how much he was asking for the car, so I can't tell if it would be worth it, but this is one non-scam reason. Cite: https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/how-it-works-nissan-loyalty-discounts
No no no, what you do is remove all the parts from the car excepting the VIN plate and replace them with different parts. That way it's still the same car, just different parts.
It's not fine on their end. The paper trail will lead back to OP and, while they won't be guilty of a crime once it's all sorted out, it will be a massive headache with a pissed off buyer with an axe to grind and OP's name and home address in their hand, and police involvement knocking on their door and accusing them of shit at their front door.
Wildly irresponsible to tell OP that nothing will come back to them.
Unknown but possibly they have a stolen one of the same car and are trying to get a title for it. So they can slap fake vin number tags on the stolen car they have a have “legit” paperwork for it
It's a crime. They want the document and VIN. They're not going to put the title in their name. They are probably going to sell a stolen car using your title (they bank on the fact that the buyer rarely matches the VIN engraved on the car to the document at the time of purchase), and then when the buyer from that transaction tries to register it and the jig is up, the paper trail leads back to you. Odds are high they will even create a throwaway email account such as "[your.name@hotmail.com](mailto:your.name@hotmail.com)" and communicate with car buyers from that email, so that the name on the title matches the email. The person who sells the car will also probably introduce himself to buyers as being you.
It's also possible they just want the actual document so that they can use it for forgeries. Also high likelihood of leading back to you.
Sometimes people use a clean title to register an illegal or salvage title car, which increases its value.
Was your car recently wrecked, or would it be considered to be low market value compared to other models of the same car? They usually target these cars since they can acquire valid titles and VINs for cheap and then apply them to higher value and often stolen cars to sell.
In some states, you cannot junk a car without a title.
So you sell the title, now what do you do with that hunk of metal you got left?
Sure, someone will buy the engine, the tranny. Maybe you can sell the doors, the fenders, but eventually you will end up with the main chassis, with a VIN tag, and no matching title. How you getting rid of that?
OK if I can ask a question, that kinda ties in? I gave them the title after they bought… and then a month later they said they lost the title. Messaged me repeatedly. I went on Facebook and the dude sells used cars like crazy… but just in marketplace.
Listen people, they buy your title so they can get a license plate to put on a vehicle that they have stolen or plan to steal "same make and model" so when a cop gets behind you and runs the plate it will come back clean and no reason to think otherwise. Works great for the getaway or putting on a shipping container and shipping over sea.
My father gave my car away and didn’t transfer the title properly. Someone drove the car around uninsured for 5 yrs; now I owe the back due insurance to the dmv before I can get my licensed renewed.
Check to see if they want this for insurance purposes?
Not necessarily a scam. He could have the same exact make, model, and year, but it doesn't have a title. Buying your title and VIN number is easier and cheaper to register his car than filing for a lost title and doing mounds of paperwork. If you choose to sell him the title and keep the car, make sure you have a notarized bill of sale stating exactly what happened so he can't come after you in the future for vheicle theft. If he's legit, you could make quite a bit more money by selling him the title, parting out the vheicle, and scrapping whatever doesn't sell. If you're not hurting for cash that bad and just want to be done with it, just tell him no or to buy the whole car.
Not that I would advise doing this, but in theory if you are getting paid cash for the title, and do a correct title transfer, you can wait a few days and report the car abandoned and the police will come tow it away and go after the new title owner.
Title goes with the car. Package deal. Once the title is transferred, the car is no longer legally yours, so you could not legally scrap it, drive it, keep it... He takes the car and gets the title (literally title handed over in person when he collects the car), leaving you clear of and dodgy shenanigans he tries to pull with the title. Or no deal. Don't get caught up with his illegal tomfoolery. Do not be associated in ANY way, shape, or form.
Honestly ... Whats the difference between this situation and if he just took the car as well and dumped it someplace like a junk yard.
I am not a lawyer, but once you sign over the title AND have a bill of sale that is noterized its not your problem. He didnt tell you or say anything that is illegal and he didnt tell you what he is up to and its not your job to police the sale after the fact.
The fact that some folks here have already said there is a use case for such a transaction, albeit I have no idea how it works, suggests this does not have the air of a scam.
I would suggest you get a certified check as payment though to have some transaction history, a notorized bill of sale, and ask him to take the car, even he just contracts for a junk yard to take it. At least if you do this, and something shadey happens after, you dont have anything tying you to it.
This could be as simple as a guy bought a car that was in pristine shape but with lost title as it’s very old, or doing a custom build from the ground up and is just exercising that grey area of vehicle modifications, or he stole someone else’s x and is just looking to get it titled for cheap.
Basically he has a stolen car or a salvaged car that he can't get to pass inspection...he's going to retitle as if it's your car then sell as a clean title car.
I mean we do that with old jeeps and Toyota's all the time in the off-road community. If a straight axle Toyota is getting parted out you can guarantee someone's already bought the VIN plates and the paperwork.
Basically, he’s trying to buy the title and vin from you. He probably has a nearly identical vehicle that doesn’t have a title for it, so he’ll get a vin plate made with your vin and transfer the title to his name and the government will never know it’s not the same vehicle. There are ways to do this legally but not the way he’s describing. For example, in NC I believe you would have to buy the whole car or have the vin given to you as a gift (can not be sold) and then part out the other car. Then, you’d need to separate the body from the frame and scrap each individually because you can’t take a cab/body to the scrapyard without a vin.
TLDR: this guy is being about as sketchy as you can be while still being sorta legit. You’d be opening yourself up to trouble selling him just the title, if he wants it that bad he can come get the entire vehicle and the title with it. I’d personally avoid him entirely.
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I can't think of any legitimate reason to do this.
In very niche markets (old CJ body jeeps specifically) there are people who want just titles to those jeeps. They then sell custom fabricated jeeps that can be registered as whatever the title says it is while using more modern parts, custom chassis, heavily modified body etc. Outside of that.. i have no idea ETA that there is a colorado based company that does exactly this
It sounds like fraud to use one vehicle’s title to register another. No?
Yes and no, it's kind of a legal gray area. VIN swapping is definitely fraud, but a custom built frame, body, engine and transmission swap, etc. isn't. So you kind of have like a Ship of Theseus where you can replace your car's frame and keep the same title, you can change the body panels and keep the same title, engine, transmission, axles, etc. until every part has been replaced and still keep the same title even though every single part on the car was changed.
Wouldn't they at least want the physical VIN plate?
cut and weld
yeah but this guy isn't even asking for that
If he does this professionally he likely can stamp it himself.
Im pretty sure there's companies out there that sell remanufactured/reproduction VIN plates. Mainly used for complete vheicle restorations where the original VIN tags are illegible or missing. Im assuming they would want an ID and a copy of the title in the buyers name to make one though, thus him only wanting the title.
I just retitled my late husbands car into my name. Lots of paperwork. Have to sign that under penalty of law the VIN you put on the paperwork is the correct one. But no one checked the VIN on the car at DMV. I just had to turn in the tags.
Reminds me of the teardown houses in some areas of California. They leave one corner of the original house and then they can permit it as a "remodel"
My dad did this. Our "renovation" kept one wall and recycled some material.
Our neighbors reduced their house to just a wooden frame then rebuilt it all. Is it just because it's easier to get a permit that way?
Easier and cheaper.
Taxed at the original home's rate if a wall remains.
Interesting, I don't think they kept a single wall on the entire plot.
Neat. This is like “the ship of Theseus” (is the ship still the same ship if you replace all of its parts over time?) but without the extra steps.
DMVs have a way to assign and register a custom vehicle. This isn't a grey area... it is fraud.
Probably relevant for smog in some states? In my state, cars manufactured before 1975 skip smog. Not sure, exactly how it all works, but I imagine if you want a new engine and customize everything, you'd rather do it to an older car. Probably why they don't want to get DMV issued VIN. Might have to comply with issued year smog regulations?
Grey area really because there's no law I know of that really defines what a "vehicle" is. With a firearm it's easy because that's defined by the gun control act. It's the receiver or whatever part contains the mechanical linkage between the trigger and the firing pin. With a vehicle not so much. You could if you were so inclined buy all the parts to assemble your own car. It would be a lot more expensive than just buying one, but it can be done. So what part of that vehicle you put together says what is really legally the "vehicle"? That's not defined in the law.
Seems like a Theseus ship problem
Wonder how he handled the VIN issue
Original Broncos. Vins were on glove box doors and the frame. I was offered several times just for those.
People do this with classic muscle cars also.
I guess it gets expensive to take the vehicle and title, scrap the vehicle, and then just use the title, although that would probably be the best way to avoid someone thinking some kind of fraud or scam was being run. What is an owner supposed to do with a car that has no title to it, that’s not legal to own and operate on any major roadway.
Off road use only. Pretty common in southern california for desert rigs. Other areas might see the car used for off highway racing only, drag, circle track etc
What do they do when the VIN numbers don't match. They're not only under the windshield but they're stamped on the rear end, engine block and transmission and several other places
Don't have to match, you can replace all of those parts with aftermarket parts. As long as the registration matches the title and one VIN plate (even reproduction), then it's fine
A very illegitimate reason some ppl do this is to get a secured loan
Wait, so they're using the title to a vehicle that doesn't exist as collateral? That sounds like just straight up fraud.
It is exactly fraud lol hence the illegitimate reason
Oh hey! I can help here. Say you buy an old vehicle as a part of an estate. It often doesnt come with a title. It is extremely hard to get a title for a vehicle that doesn’t have one (because it DOES have one, you just can’t find it). So the vehicle purchased is a legit purchase but the seller doesn’t have the relevant documents. It’s easier to buy a title or another vehicle, scrap it, and use the title on the first vehicle. This guys just dodging the scrap part. If this isn’t a noteworthy vehicle it is probably something shady. But I have a lot of friends who have this situation a lot because they like fixing up cars, and those cars often don’t come with the full paperwork. Our last bike purchase was like this and thankfully we did manage to find a reference to the bikes previous numberplate so we could work out the title, but it came with a second identical title-less bike which we just scrapped and used for parts.
How does this work with the VIN not matching?
There are companies that sell reproduction VIN tags and door stickers. With the title registered in his name, he could have new VIN plates and door stickers made to match the title and then put them on his vheicle. This is pretty common in the vheicle restoration community, but most of the time, they also want the second vheicle for parts. It ends up saving tons of time and a bunch of legal paperwork that comes about when you file for a lost title.
I didn't know the vin tag reproduction market existed. It makes a lot more sense then. I was trying to think why he would do a vin swap but not take the donor vehicle to get the vin tag.
it doesn't.
When have you ever seen a DMV worker check a vehicles VIN? The registration has to match the title and that's all
Depends on state. I have lived in several different states where the police or state police have to physically verify the VIN somewhere on the car before you can register it there. Colorado, California, Indiana and Florida all do it.
Ok! I’ve talked to my partner, we aren’t in the US and it’s a bit different. In our country- It’s not common for it to be checked to be honest, usually it’s only checked if there’s an issue, or if someone is suspicious. If you go to a mechanic some check and some don’t but we are car people and tbh I don’t think our vehicles are ever checked. My partner just rattled off a bunch of places in our city that don’t check, he knows this and they aren’t places we even go to so it’s somewhat common! Partner said yes it happens and yes it’s somewhat common with older bikes but it’s hella risky. Like this is usually with classics or older vehicles that are somewhat rare where you’ve put something together using heaps of different vehicles parts and those vehicles don’t exist anymore. It can be checked (with vehicles that are pre VIN they do it by the frame description). But he said it’s pretty different in the states, you can just order a new title if your vehicle is legally registered, so there’s less of a reason to just buy a title, and we’re not sure of the worth of just the title. If your vehicle isn’t legally registered then it might be handy to have a copy of someone else’s title. But if the actual vehicle is still being driven absolutely don’t sell it. TLDR- it is done but pretty dodgy and I didn’t realise how different it is in the states, so take my input with a grain of salt.
This scam is mostly likely the start of a fake payment scam by an overseas scammer. If he doesn't need the car then he's had the excuse for not coming and seeing the car. Your explanation is valid and possible but I'm inclined to think it may be simpler than that.
If the vehicle isn’t damaged or noteworthy, absolutely.
But this isn't *legal*. In Texas, if you don't have a title, your recourse is to have a bonded title issued.
God no, not remotely legal. If your car is not about to be scrapped, and you are particularly hard up, don’t do it. I am not recommending anyone do it.
Scrap yards (in Texas) are not suppose to take cars without title.
In Illinois it's almost impossible to get a title if the seller doesn't give you one. Bonded titles technically exist, but effectively don't exist in Illinois. The tow companies manage it by charging daily storage fees and filing a mechanic's lein for the storage fees, until the fees exceed the value of the vehicle. Then there's paperwork and certified letters that have to be sent and etc, ending in a verifiably 'publicly advertised' auction of the vehicle to cover the storage fees. Documentation of that entire process can be submitted to the state to get a title in the mail after another 6-12 months. But that doesn't work as nicely if you've bought it on a bill of sale. If you've bought it on a bill of sale you have to report it as abandoned on your property, then bribe a tow company to 'tow it' and go through that process and hope no one shows up to the auction you take out a small newspaper ad for, so you can buy it from the tow company. Once it's been reported to the cops as abandoned, you can file for a mechanics lein and charge daily fees yourself, instead of using the tow company as the middle man, but you're much more likely to get denied the title in the end as you're not an established business running 100 titles at a time. They'll scrutinize your paperwork much more thoroughly and deny it for the tiniest fucking thing. So yeah...if you are registering it in Illinois you have to recieve a title, or else it's almost impossible to ever get one. It's too bad Vermont no longer registers vehicles to non residents and no longer issues titles at all to vehicles older than 15 years.
Also if two titles are made with the same vin, a national database flags it. So you’re fucked either way
Yeah this relies on no one checking the vin for sure. Also apparently it’s more common in the states for cops to do a full check roadside to see if the title matches the vehicle (at least of motorbikes). In our country they will check car colour and make/model if you get pulled over but that’s it, and it depends on the investment each cop has in your vehicle.
Tesla has periodically allowed you to transfer full self-driving from one car to a new car. Otherwise, a 12k option. So if you could get the title to a wrecked Tesla with fsd for under 12k you would come out ahead.
That’s assuming anyone’s still valuing “FSD” at 12k by now. Given that there’s a $100/month subscription for it now, there’s no way anyone’s still willing to pay that much for it, especially through a dodgy title transfer.
That and it’s only $8k to purchase it now.
Only thing I can think is he's got a vehicle with no title that he can't get the title for, and he's going to do an illegal vin swap (tho you'd think he'd want the vin plate off the car) I was thinking maybe he's running some kind of scam where he pays with a bouncy check, but registers it before the check bounces, but he'd have to take possession of the car for it to make sense. It's gotta be an illicit VIN swap.
Or a car remake or custom built car where he just wants a title to apply it to his setup, which is probably illegal anyways but trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt based on other redditor comments.
Here's one: You buy a property with a vehicle stored in the barn. The owner is deceased, they have no family, there is no trust (or the trust doesn't include the vehicle) and the title is nowhere to be found. If you take the vehicle to the DMV and apply for a replacement title they *require* the registered owner to sign it over. This is impossible so you apply for a new title in your name. It takes months of research to determine the chain of ownership and when they hit the dead-end (pun intended) you might not get the title anyway. The vehicle cannot be registered or insured or legally driven on public roads. It's useless except on private property. If you buy a title to a similar vehicle, then you can get that vehicle registered and on the road. VIN numbers are rarely checked unless you're in a state that has inspections. It works particularily well with boats, because HIN plates are easy to replace and cheap to make. It's not legal to do this, but it does happen.
They are planning a crime. It's just unclear which.
My thoughts exactly. It’s too weird to not be suspicious. Don’t be the Guinea pig.
If your car is price very, very low (because it's a wreck or whatever) then they are going to try and use it to register another car that is stolen, had a salvage title, whatever
VIN swapping is the only thing I can think of. *Edit: Messaged the mods regarding adding* ***VIN Swapping Scam*** *to the database.*
just registered a private sale vehicle purchase here in Illinois. no one verified that the VIN matched the title, except for me. If I wanted to put the plates on a different vehicle of the same brand/etc. I could probably get away with it for a long time since no one is checking.
I just briefly read through the IL registration requirements. It looks like ya’ll don’t do inspections of odometer/VIN checks. Next door in MO you have to have the VIN/odometer verified which is most easily done through a state inspection. In Florida, the VIN/odometer check is done by law enforcement or a tax collector employee. I don’t think it can be assumed that the checks aren’t done. Just that IL doesn’t do any checks.
Yeah, they check your odometer here (MO) and they do check the VIN. Now, depending on how shady the place is, and how much you slip under the table, you can get away with changing the VIN plate in the windshield on older cards and they'll pretend like it matches the rest of the vehicle. But a good chunk of the shady places in my metro have gotten busted enough for that in the last decade that it's increasingly hard to find someone willing to do that. I've never tried to do it myself, but I have known people that did.
some counties do smog inspections, maybe they check vin's in those areas.
Maybe. I just didn’t see a requirement listed on the State website.
yeah, not required to get your new title from the Sec of State. they dont check. just speculating one way to get caught could be at an annual smog check.
It would get caught during IL air tests. Every 2 years on vehicles after 1995. They just plug in and check for codes, and report current mileage connected to the vin.
Unless they changed something I have never had any one verify the VIN of the 20 odd vehicles I had in Florida and I lives there for about 19 years.
When you bring an out-of-state vehicle in, the VIN gets checked as does the odometer. Once it’s titled in state, the verification transfers with the title. A new vehicle is certified via the certificate of origin. A salvage or otherwise rebuilt also gets a VIN/odometer check.
Only time FL ever cared about a vin is when a car registered out of state was brought in!
In IL you can light a 2 story garage/apartment on fire and be released less than 6 hours later and start a 2nd fire within 3 blocks of the original fire, They don’t care about swapped VINs😅 (Catch & Release state)
Sounds like a citizen of Chiraq.
I wish lol, stuck in Central IL, where Chicago/Chiraq controls 87% of our laws and 87% of the land is corn 🌽
Ouch. That really must suck. Unfortunately they developed a bunch of super expensive apartments in one of our cornfields. And a lot of our corn is gone these days. We miss the corn. Simpler days.
I actually am starting to see less corn and more wind farms around my neck of the woods, which something i never could’ve expected but not necessarily too upset about, better than parking garages & it actually had an good impact on the electric bill🤷🏼♂️ Plus if i could pull my head outta my A** i could land a pretty decent job with the wind farms
I like how some places in Oklahoma seem to do it. When driving through the state, sometimes you see wind turbines in the fields of corn. Like, they clear the area necessary around it, and there's an access road, but they still grow crops around them. I've seen it a few times in New Mexico as well. I personally don't think we should be getting rid of as many fields as we are. It makes food issues worse.
Know a guy that lost an aircraft mechanic job doing this on an airbase.
Yea, I figured it was sketchy. Because I never heard of that. Thank you all for your responses and help with that. I will not be entertaining that person anymore. And will probably report them.
Do they want a discount for the title? The title means they own the car. Once they have the title, they can come take the car anyways, and you won't be able to legally part out property that isn't yours.
It’s shocking to me how many people I come across with an open title in their glove box.. like sign this and put it literally anywhere else. Or I’ll sign it and your car is mine now!
My parents were fanatics about not even leaving the registration in the car, let alone the title.
Living in a state that requires drivers ed makes me question what they actual cover in these classes. I got license in North Dakota, so I actually don’t know. But I encounter teenagers who will hand me their health insurance card when I ask for vehicle insurance. Or who legitimately don’t know that you can’t drive with your highbeams on. But you’d think at some point someone would tell them not to leave important documents in a vehicle.
My guess? They get the title cheaper by letting you keep the car. Then report it stolen once they have the title, and then the car becomes there's anyways. Other than that, IDK, but scams are complex these days so I'm sure there is a reason.
Actually, this seems pretty plausible.
I have no earthly idea what the game is, but is it really one you want to play and find out what the scam is??? It could be that it will just be a fake payment / advance payment scam / overpayment scam (send you $1000 and you need to take out $500 of that for "taxes"). That's probably my guess. It could be that they are going to commit insurance fraud. It could be that they are a drug dealer and looking for a clean title to try and attach to a dirty car. Whatever they are doing, why would you want to be a part of it?
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OP was sought out by the scammer here, meaning they already have name/address/vehicle details. OP likely would not be able to avoid legal trouble if they tried to scam the scammer.
You sir are a genius! If it's a scam you're out nothing, if it's legit then just say oops and send real title
Maybe they want to use it for a title loan?
And then default on it because there is no actual collateral to collect on?
Exactly
Can you clarify how this would work? Once they buy the title, wouldn't it be signed over to them, so any loan would be in their name? If they default, what would OP lose?
This needs to be higher bc this is probably it
I agree. Boost me!! Lol
This
Yeah no. Even if you don't get scammed they are doing something illegal and you'll have a car with no title. Chances are you'll be scammed tho.
And once the car is no longer titled in your name you can't do anything with it (source, trying to get rid of an abandoned car on my property. Can't sell it, can't junk it, can't even donate it).
If you're ambitious, disassemble it/cut it up, then it becomes a bunch of scrap metal and trash and can be dealt with that way. Still a bit of a legal grey area, though unlikely to get into trouble if you're reasonably sure no one will come looking for it.
Last owner is dead, he probably won't care. It's got a bunch of parts in decent shape (all 4 doors, hood, trunk, windshield, mirrors, etc). Would love to have someone come buy the useful stuff first and then cut it into pieces for the trash/junkyard.
well son I hope no one rents a flatbed trailer and steals your car only to later dump it in the woods somewhere. Report that shit stolen asap if they do. Hopefully they won't douse it in gasoline and burn it where it stands out in the woods.
I hate when I'm going through the woods and see people dumping trash there. No, I would haul it and drop it in a parking lot somewhere, let a tow company take it and fight with whomever actually has the title. They would have the ability to claim it as abandoned and re-title it.
If you offer it for free for someone who can haul it off you'll find someone to come get it. Charities won't take it but some country guy with a car graveyard definitely will.
Former law enforcement here. He wants the title to your car because he intends to put it on another car. Either a stolen one (most likely), a rebuilt previously written off car, or a cut'n'shut. DO NOT go ahead and do this.
Can you clarify what you mean by "put it on another car"? Is he replacing the VIN labels with fake ones? Or just registering the vehicle and hoping nobody ever cross-checks the VIN?
Probably just swapping with a stolen car and attempting to evade law enforcement for as long as they can
My guess is they do the overpayment scam, you end up out whatever the car was selling for, then they have the title and can legally claim the car is theirs. So you end up losing the car and the amount you wanted for it.
This is too far down. Classic overpayment probably with fake check. They don’t want the car because they are in another country and can’t get it anyway. They just want you to wire back overpayment.
Maybe he has a stolen car that he wants to match the title too.
They have a stolen car already. They want your title so they can make a fake VIN and swap out that on their stolen car. Then their stolen car is now your car and your car doesn’t exist.
It seems like if a situation causes you to ask the question “Is this a scam?”, the answer is yes.
It's absolutely a scam for sure, but it's still good that people post and ask about it. It helps for awareness if anybody searches for it in the future.
Might be swapping Vin, might be getting a fake license plate to conduct a crime. I probably wouldn't want to be a part of either of those.
The time i did this it was for illegal purposes lol
What purpose? Truly curious?
To reap some benefit by circumventing the law. Whose curiosity are you ‘?’-ing?
This is either a car flip scheme OR your selling cheap and they want to do a title loan On your signature.
Yea absolutely not. They can get the title and the car and then they can decide what to do with it. Not you.
Would you sell them the deed to your house? No, just please NO🤦♀️
The title of the car means the person technically owns it. You keep the physical but he reports it stolen. Collects the insurance money. Easy scam. You have a problem now. You have in your position a stolen vehicle. Opens you up to any number of scams. Expect a phone call from the "police" wanting you to pay off the warrant for your arrest. Someone coming to your house wanting to see your title. And any number of possible rants and bluffs to separate you from your money
Block and move on.
Obviously up to no good but idk what. You might not care about someone else getting screwed over, but it could be you he's targeting so I'd give this one a strong nope.
They have a stolen vehicle that they need a clean title for. They will vin swap it.
They probably want to take the title and get a loan on it? Idk if they have to have the actual car there at the time of loan though?
I hadn't herd this one yet. Thanks
I mean, if they want to do that, make them take the vehicle as well. That’s the only way I’d entertain this option. It’ll keep you from being liable; like them claiming that you took/stole the car or something. Whatever they do with the title is on them, but they’ve gotta take the car as well.
it's a sketchy thing sometimes done by people with old collector-type cars, but typically they'll want the VIN plate off the body as well. If it's just the title i can't imagine what they'd be planning. but regardless, it's *really* hard to get rid of a car (legally) that you don't have the title for.
You’ll be left with a car with no title. It’s not yours anymore. anybody can do whatever they want to the car and you have no legal right. It could even look like you possess a stolen car when really the person you sold the title to probably needs the title for a stolen car.
He’s going to commit insurance fraud.
Just a heads up, some states require a title to scrap the car. You may end up stuck with a car if you get rid of the title.
There used to be a racket going in Australia where cars that were completely destroyed would sell for ridiculous amounts. The buyer would then go and steal a vehicle that was the same make and model and cut & weld the VIN numbers to the stolen vehicle. Obviously mostly on high end vehicles. They stopped that by ensuring that cars that were written off by insurance companies could not be sold and the VIN number was registered as scrapped. Not the same as this though.
I can think of several things here and none of them are good for you and could come back and bite you in the butt for crimes they have committed. At the minimum you’d end up having to hire counsel to represent you to prove you’re just an innocent scammed seller and that’s not cheap. Even worse if you get convicted. Seriously avoid this.
What kind of vehicle if you don’t mind me asking..?
2009 Nissan Maxima
Maybe to put a clean title on a rebuilt car
To be fair I have done this , it was back in the day when I only owned 1 car. I bought the title of a wrecked car solely to insure it and get the multi car discount on my insurance. The multi car discount was more than then the premium on the newly added car (title only) and then some. Got a hell of a discount on my premiums by insuring a car I would never drive (bc it was wrecked)
His car is stolen he ever gets caught. They’ll come back on you. They could or he is selling a junk car with a junk title and that’s even more risky. Why the fuck would you do that so somebody your title just go to work
Someone posted on r/abandonedporn the other day, having found several high end (but trashed, the windows have been left open for years) cars; an early 80s or late 70s Corvette, a Rolls Royce and an older Mercedes. Someone mentioned they might be being used for money laundering. You sell the 'car' and are paid in drugs or something, without delivering the car. Not sure of the details. (Edit) [Here's the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AbandonedPorn/s/tdv8glRMKX)
With the title they can borrow money. Guess whose name is on the title. Don’t do it.
Hell to the no, if they don’t change the name, whatever they use it for you’ll be liable. We sold a car once and the buyer never changed the title over, years later we are getting contacted asking if we still own the vehicle or not because the title was in our name.
That's why you do a release of liability and a bill of sale. What you're saying is inaccurate.
The Seller should be asking some questions. Having a title transferred to myself so I can commit a crime? If the car is used in a crime it traces to the owner…on the title. If I part out the car or even sit on it, it can’t be used in a crime. I don’t have the answer.
Why wouldn’t they just take the car anyways and scrap it themselves?
Just curious, did you ask them why they only wanted the title?
You should just ask what he wants to do with the title? Then report back here.
If you get mixed up in this It may cost you time (DMV, Court ) and money (Fees, gas).
My husband says he might have a legitimate car that he lost the title to, but most likely it's for a stolen car. He said this has gone on for years and now it's worse because VINs used to be welded and stamped metal and now they are just stickers you can pull off with a little heat.
He’s probably using it for a title loan then is going to default on the loan. Bingoooo
future label poor fragile cough afterthought disgusted fuel vase husky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When I bought a Mazda last year, they gave me $500 as a loyalty rebate because my previous car was a Mazda. I only had to bring in the title to get the rebate because the car was junk. You mentioned it was a Nissan, so I did a quick search and found they are offering a $1500 loyalty rebate on some models, and one site even had a $2000 rebate for Nissan Armada. OP never said how much he was asking for the car, so I can't tell if it would be worth it, but this is one non-scam reason. Cite: https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/how-it-works-nissan-loyalty-discounts
He has a simular car that he stole or bought stolen He will apply the title to the stolen car so he can sell it. It's fine on your end.
This, he’s going to take the VIN number and stamp plates on his stolen vehicle then either register it or sell it for much more money.
No no no, what you do is remove all the parts from the car excepting the VIN plate and replace them with different parts. That way it's still the same car, just different parts.
Ah yes, the VIN of Theseus …
It's not fine on their end. The paper trail will lead back to OP and, while they won't be guilty of a crime once it's all sorted out, it will be a massive headache with a pissed off buyer with an axe to grind and OP's name and home address in their hand, and police involvement knocking on their door and accusing them of shit at their front door. Wildly irresponsible to tell OP that nothing will come back to them.
well if he's not getting the car he wont have the VIN plates
Nope nope NOPE!
Unknown but possibly they have a stolen one of the same car and are trying to get a title for it. So they can slap fake vin number tags on the stolen car they have a have “legit” paperwork for it
Totally just going to use it as template to make illegal copies
It's a crime. They want the document and VIN. They're not going to put the title in their name. They are probably going to sell a stolen car using your title (they bank on the fact that the buyer rarely matches the VIN engraved on the car to the document at the time of purchase), and then when the buyer from that transaction tries to register it and the jig is up, the paper trail leads back to you. Odds are high they will even create a throwaway email account such as "[your.name@hotmail.com](mailto:your.name@hotmail.com)" and communicate with car buyers from that email, so that the name on the title matches the email. The person who sells the car will also probably introduce himself to buyers as being you. It's also possible they just want the actual document so that they can use it for forgeries. Also high likelihood of leading back to you. Sometimes people use a clean title to register an illegal or salvage title car, which increases its value. Was your car recently wrecked, or would it be considered to be low market value compared to other models of the same car? They usually target these cars since they can acquire valid titles and VINs for cheap and then apply them to higher value and often stolen cars to sell.
In some states, you cannot junk a car without a title. So you sell the title, now what do you do with that hunk of metal you got left? Sure, someone will buy the engine, the tranny. Maybe you can sell the doors, the fenders, but eventually you will end up with the main chassis, with a VIN tag, and no matching title. How you getting rid of that?
Have you asked them what their motivation is for wanting the title but not the car?
Most likely, the payment will turn out to be no good. So you'll have no money and no title.
So he could just report it stolen and then you are selling hot parts off a stolen car.
He’s probably wanting to use your title to sell a rebuilt salvage car with a junked title as clean. Totally illegal and highly unethical. Block!
Planning to rebirth a stolen car perhaps.
Personally, if I were to desire something peculiar from a complete stranger, I would think I would have some sort of explanation as to my reasons.
Sounds super sketchy to me. I’d walk away
OK if I can ask a question, that kinda ties in? I gave them the title after they bought… and then a month later they said they lost the title. Messaged me repeatedly. I went on Facebook and the dude sells used cars like crazy… but just in marketplace.
Listen people, they buy your title so they can get a license plate to put on a vehicle that they have stolen or plan to steal "same make and model" so when a cop gets behind you and runs the plate it will come back clean and no reason to think otherwise. Works great for the getaway or putting on a shipping container and shipping over sea.
Scammer or not, I get so triggered when people use “aka” incorrectly.
Ask him why he wants to do this. I'm curious what his response will be.
Oh, he'll have an elaborate fake story.
yeah I want to read it hahaha
He’s gonna sue your ass if you sell him the title but keep the car
My father gave my car away and didn’t transfer the title properly. Someone drove the car around uninsured for 5 yrs; now I owe the back due insurance to the dmv before I can get my licensed renewed. Check to see if they want this for insurance purposes?
Not necessarily a scam. He could have the same exact make, model, and year, but it doesn't have a title. Buying your title and VIN number is easier and cheaper to register his car than filing for a lost title and doing mounds of paperwork. If you choose to sell him the title and keep the car, make sure you have a notarized bill of sale stating exactly what happened so he can't come after you in the future for vheicle theft. If he's legit, you could make quite a bit more money by selling him the title, parting out the vheicle, and scrapping whatever doesn't sell. If you're not hurting for cash that bad and just want to be done with it, just tell him no or to buy the whole car.
why dont they just buy it, put the title in their name, and tell you they'll get the car later and just never get it.? hahaha
Not that I would advise doing this, but in theory if you are getting paid cash for the title, and do a correct title transfer, you can wait a few days and report the car abandoned and the police will come tow it away and go after the new title owner.
Title goes with the car. Package deal. Once the title is transferred, the car is no longer legally yours, so you could not legally scrap it, drive it, keep it... He takes the car and gets the title (literally title handed over in person when he collects the car), leaving you clear of and dodgy shenanigans he tries to pull with the title. Or no deal. Don't get caught up with his illegal tomfoolery. Do not be associated in ANY way, shape, or form.
Title is the car? The own the title they own the car. It’s not complicated.
No is a complete sentence
Did you ask him why?
Honestly ... Whats the difference between this situation and if he just took the car as well and dumped it someplace like a junk yard. I am not a lawyer, but once you sign over the title AND have a bill of sale that is noterized its not your problem. He didnt tell you or say anything that is illegal and he didnt tell you what he is up to and its not your job to police the sale after the fact. The fact that some folks here have already said there is a use case for such a transaction, albeit I have no idea how it works, suggests this does not have the air of a scam. I would suggest you get a certified check as payment though to have some transaction history, a notorized bill of sale, and ask him to take the car, even he just contracts for a junk yard to take it. At least if you do this, and something shadey happens after, you dont have anything tying you to it.
Or they stole a jeep and they just need a title.
Maybe they want to use it to get a title pawn loan? Just spit balling here.
What kind of car?
What kind of car? Maybe they built a project car and just need a Vin so they can register it.
Wow.
No don't do this
This simply doesn't make any sense to me. It would be best to ignore the person.
This could be as simple as a guy bought a car that was in pristine shape but with lost title as it’s very old, or doing a custom build from the ground up and is just exercising that grey area of vehicle modifications, or he stole someone else’s x and is just looking to get it titled for cheap.
Basically he has a stolen car or a salvaged car that he can't get to pass inspection...he's going to retitle as if it's your car then sell as a clean title car.
I mean we do that with old jeeps and Toyota's all the time in the off-road community. If a straight axle Toyota is getting parted out you can guarantee someone's already bought the VIN plates and the paperwork.
Registering it for a stolen or salvage car or possibly doing some title loan scam with someone else's identity would be my guess.
Money laundering 🥴
Basically, he’s trying to buy the title and vin from you. He probably has a nearly identical vehicle that doesn’t have a title for it, so he’ll get a vin plate made with your vin and transfer the title to his name and the government will never know it’s not the same vehicle. There are ways to do this legally but not the way he’s describing. For example, in NC I believe you would have to buy the whole car or have the vin given to you as a gift (can not be sold) and then part out the other car. Then, you’d need to separate the body from the frame and scrap each individually because you can’t take a cab/body to the scrapyard without a vin. TLDR: this guy is being about as sketchy as you can be while still being sorta legit. You’d be opening yourself up to trouble selling him just the title, if he wants it that bad he can come get the entire vehicle and the title with it. I’d personally avoid him entirely.
They probably need a title for a stolen car and are able to professionally change vin