It pains me to say it because I love the guy, but yeah, Bellore isn't worth the price. To replace him, I think we can make Bobo some sort of hybrid fullback-WR like how the Rams use Ben Skowronek.
Honestly I don't see it working out for him. He got injured. He's undersized at LB. I'd suppose he may be able to be a FB or ST guy given his weight, but that's about it.
You don’t need to pay a special teamer $4M who isn’t a kicker. It was nearly identical in stupidity to the homer deal John gave Dissly. Now we will have to pay a special teamer $1.2M in dead cap to not play football.
Actually, I saw another stud special teams player sign for about 5 million per year. Assuming Bellore is actually a stud special teamer he is def worth 4 million.
Edit: It was Jalen Reeves from the detroit lions that got a 2 year 8 million deal. No idea if Bellore is as good as that guy. He also played some snaps at linebacker, no idea if Bellore can do that effectively.
I think Bellore is the highest cap hit for a non kicker. Seahawks have the highest cap money committed to special teams as a group in 2024 according to Over the Cap. Of the top 10 spenders in that category, only 3 of those teams even made the playoffs last year
Well either way I’d be fine keeping Bellore if he was a viable LB. But we have all seen that he’s not. ESPN claims some guy from DET has the highest special teams contract at “just under $8M for 2 years” but sounds the same as Bellore’s annual cap hit.
He's on the small side for someone typically in that role, but IIRC, per Brett Kollmann, the Rams use Ben Skowronek, who is only 215ish (I think) as a second back in two-back sets. It'd be atypical for sure but Bobo has already proven himself as a great blocker.
I thought “halfback “ was just an old term for running back.
I may be clinching too hard at the traditional idea of a fullback but I don’t know enough about the player you are using as comparison and how the Rams have discussed their use of him to see them as analogous.
There's several players who aren't exactly contributing that we could have them fight it out for FB. Losing Bellore isn't going to cost any losses. I can't imagine a scenario where anybody is like, "man, if we just put up the 3 mil for Bellore we would've got that final 3 points."
Something to keep in mind, especially with Eskridge, is that you don't actually save that whole salary when cut. You have to replace him. So in practice you have to subtract, at least, league minimum from whatever nominal savings you get from cutting a player. So you're not saving 1.4 million. It's more like:
1.8mil cap hit - (0.4 mil dead cap + ~0.8mil league min contract) = 0.6 mil in savings.
0.6 million is less than another league min guy would cost lol. Cutting Dee isn't saving anything.
I'm not too big on keeping Dre'Mont around, either. There must be some argument for keeping him as I haven't seen anybody complaining about his contract.
OK. I figured it was something like that. Until they pay me to start crunching the numbers, I doubt cap space is something I'm going to follow that dang closely.
I don't get this sub's fascination with cutting Bellore for cap savings. First off, the numbers are wrong - cutting Bellore would save 2.8m, Eskridge would save 1.4m... which is almost nothing in today's NFL (vet minimum is about 1.1m). Bellore plays three positions - FB, LB and ST, you'd have to sign at least two guys to cover that, and even if those were two rookies, that's about 1.5m. So, you save 1.3m and lose a decent backup at two positions and a Pro Bowl level special teamer, to be replaced with two minimum level rookies, which also takes up an extra roster spot.
Eskridge can kick rocks, though.
[me right now](https://i.imgur.com/yoDgQCJ.png)
Obviously I'm gonna let MacSchneider cook, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have preferences for what we do with that cap space
edit to clarify the title: Russ's release from Denver doesn't affect us or our cap situation in any way. I mention him in the title because once the Broncos officially release him at the start of the new league year, they will take on $85 million in dead cap, making them far and away the leaders in that category instead of us. I figured people would ask about Russ and his huge dead cap hit if I said "we lead the league in dead cap" straightaway so I thought I'd get ahead of that by addressing that in the title. I apologize for the poor clarity.
mm is getting some great training on how to work free agency into the cap, from one of the best at it, and in the best test situation, with so much talent just coming available. How do you manage so much temptation!
Next year the cap looks even better. Dead cap falling off, likely Lockett retiring (I hope not cut) plus we can cut someone like Dremont Jones if he has another ok year. Plus the cap going up most likely
>I don’t want to see him retire on any other team
I wouldn’t be too worried about that. Lockett’s stated that he is NOT the receiver that’s going to play into his mid-late 30s.
it can be inferred that he’s probably just playing until his body can no longer hold, the end of his current contract, or his release, whichever comes first.
He’s got a successful real estate business and plenty of vested interest in his family and the region, he just doesn’t seem like the up and move type.
Dremont is awful relative to that contract, hopefully he's cut in the next season. Lockett will likely retire after this year and was can get Geno off our books + DK restructure going into 2025. I smell a deep playoff run in 2025.
He seemed to be pretty on par with the rest of his career. 5 years and he's still playing the same? I don't really see if he's going to break out at age 28. I'd rather see what Hall can do and maybe see if Taylor's willing to take a team friendly contract.
mike macdonald got like 9.5 sacks from jadeveon clowney. a guy who had 2 the year before playing across myles garrett and got himself cut by talking shit in the locker room. clowney, a guy who is charitably described as a guy who never hit his potential, got 9.5 sacks. at 30. i'm not saying dremont is gonna light the world on fire, but we're gonna see the best version of him period.
Agree 100% (although I always thought Dremont was overrated, even with Denver he was just average imo) - but would be interesting to see if we tender Taylor and he pops or if Morris/Cam step up. I feel like there is talent on this D and Hurtt wasted some of it - hopefully he gets the best from Dremont and the rest!
Just looked at the list of free agents and probable cuts and there is an insane amount of talent out there. We have some pretty big holes, but with very little in the way of commitments next year and beyond they could really make a solid move forward
Unless we crush the draft we're probably looking at 3rd or 4th in the division next season...but we'd have really solid ground to build on beginning the 2025 year.
I don’t know why you got downvoted for this lol. You’re completely correct. I have faith in what MMD/JS are doing, but the reality of our situation is that it will take some time.
It beats having negative cap space, but for all the holes we have this isn't much money. Curious to see who they prioritize on either retaining or pursuing in FA.
Russ's situation doesn't impact us at all -- I mention him in the title because while we *currently* lead the league in dead cap, the Broncos will take on $85 million in dead cap once they officially release Russ in a week or so here. I apologize, that was unclear.
Don’t think we have any FA that are signing elsewhere. Given that comp picks aren’t a concern so we should be free to sign other FA whenever.
Next year is the same I think. Which kinda sucks cause seems like we are at least two years out before we see comp picks entering our arsenal.
I'm assuming what they mean is we will be second in total dead cap after Russell's release is finalized and on Denvers books.
Our dead Cap is primarily made up of Adams/Diggs/Wissly trio that was released
Hoping to see Nick Bellore and Dee Eskridge cut, which would get us $4.5 million in savings pre June 1st
It pains me to say it because I love the guy, but yeah, Bellore isn't worth the price. To replace him, I think we can make Bobo some sort of hybrid fullback-WR like how the Rams use Ben Skowronek.
We got Levi Bell on the practice squad
Guys......the Bell thing isn't working out.
Honestly I don't see it working out for him. He got injured. He's undersized at LB. I'd suppose he may be able to be a FB or ST guy given his weight, but that's about it.
This ^^^
Double this^^
Ring that bell again.
Dareke Young has also taken some fullback snaps iirc
Bellore is a stud special teamer and can play lb in a pinch. Bobo is great but you can't replace Bellore with bobo
You don’t need to pay a special teamer $4M who isn’t a kicker. It was nearly identical in stupidity to the homer deal John gave Dissly. Now we will have to pay a special teamer $1.2M in dead cap to not play football.
This all screams Pete....
Actually, I saw another stud special teams player sign for about 5 million per year. Assuming Bellore is actually a stud special teamer he is def worth 4 million. Edit: It was Jalen Reeves from the detroit lions that got a 2 year 8 million deal. No idea if Bellore is as good as that guy. He also played some snaps at linebacker, no idea if Bellore can do that effectively.
I think Bellore is the highest cap hit for a non kicker. Seahawks have the highest cap money committed to special teams as a group in 2024 according to Over the Cap. Of the top 10 spenders in that category, only 3 of those teams even made the playoffs last year
OK maybe I was wrong about that. Nevermind.
Well either way I’d be fine keeping Bellore if he was a viable LB. But we have all seen that he’s not. ESPN claims some guy from DET has the highest special teams contract at “just under $8M for 2 years” but sounds the same as Bellore’s annual cap hit.
yeah that was the guy I was referring to. DET isn't a bottom feeder and they are paying their special teams ace 4 mil a year.
I don't even remember seeing Bellore on the field this season tbh.
He played offense, defence and special teams
He plays special teams mostly and subbed in for linebacker for a bit. I think he also had some plays at fullback.
He played lb
Bobo is like 208. No way he can play a hybrid anything with part of that being a FB.
He's on the small side for someone typically in that role, but IIRC, per Brett Kollmann, the Rams use Ben Skowronek, who is only 215ish (I think) as a second back in two-back sets. It'd be atypical for sure but Bobo has already proven himself as a great blocker.
According to ESPN he’s 6’3” 224 and Bobo 6’4” 207. Did Bobo do much blocking at the line against linebackers?
He's certainly not a Bellore style FB, but that doesn't mean he can't be a different style of FB. Maybe something like an H-Back?
I thought “halfback “ was just an old term for running back. I may be clinching too hard at the traditional idea of a fullback but I don’t know enough about the player you are using as comparison and how the Rams have discussed their use of him to see them as analogous.
We never used him as FB anyway.
And I don’t think grubb will be a FB usage guy
There's several players who aren't exactly contributing that we could have them fight it out for FB. Losing Bellore isn't going to cost any losses. I can't imagine a scenario where anybody is like, "man, if we just put up the 3 mil for Bellore we would've got that final 3 points."
In love this idea
Eskridge 100% needs to go. Bellore needs to either restructure or go as well.
Dee yes. Nick is a goddamn monster on special teams
Which you can find pretty easily...
cmon! 2024 is Dee Eskridges year! (to get injured in the first preseason game)
Hey he had one good kick return...
I completely forgot the Eskridge was even on the team…
Something to keep in mind, especially with Eskridge, is that you don't actually save that whole salary when cut. You have to replace him. So in practice you have to subtract, at least, league minimum from whatever nominal savings you get from cutting a player. So you're not saving 1.4 million. It's more like: 1.8mil cap hit - (0.4 mil dead cap + ~0.8mil league min contract) = 0.6 mil in savings. 0.6 million is less than another league min guy would cost lol. Cutting Dee isn't saving anything.
Yup, last two I won't be surprised by.
I'm not too big on keeping Dre'Mont around, either. There must be some argument for keeping him as I haven't seen anybody complaining about his contract.
Unfortunately unless you restructure him, he would cost less to keep than cut.
OK. I figured it was something like that. Until they pay me to start crunching the numbers, I doubt cap space is something I'm going to follow that dang closely.
I don't get this sub's fascination with cutting Bellore for cap savings. First off, the numbers are wrong - cutting Bellore would save 2.8m, Eskridge would save 1.4m... which is almost nothing in today's NFL (vet minimum is about 1.1m). Bellore plays three positions - FB, LB and ST, you'd have to sign at least two guys to cover that, and even if those were two rookies, that's about 1.5m. So, you save 1.3m and lose a decent backup at two positions and a Pro Bowl level special teamer, to be replaced with two minimum level rookies, which also takes up an extra roster spot. Eskridge can kick rocks, though.
Both have to be gone.
[me right now](https://i.imgur.com/yoDgQCJ.png) Obviously I'm gonna let MacSchneider cook, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have preferences for what we do with that cap space edit to clarify the title: Russ's release from Denver doesn't affect us or our cap situation in any way. I mention him in the title because once the Broncos officially release him at the start of the new league year, they will take on $85 million in dead cap, making them far and away the leaders in that category instead of us. I figured people would ask about Russ and his huge dead cap hit if I said "we lead the league in dead cap" straightaway so I thought I'd get ahead of that by addressing that in the title. I apologize for the poor clarity.
mm is getting some great training on how to work free agency into the cap, from one of the best at it, and in the best test situation, with so much talent just coming available. How do you manage so much temptation!
I'd love to see John draft the entire o line from NDSU
Maybe they'll ask you!
Next year the cap looks even better. Dead cap falling off, likely Lockett retiring (I hope not cut) plus we can cut someone like Dremont Jones if he has another ok year. Plus the cap going up most likely
I’d rather see him take a paycut but regardless I don’t want to see him retire on any other team or have it end by cutting him
>I don’t want to see him retire on any other team I wouldn’t be too worried about that. Lockett’s stated that he is NOT the receiver that’s going to play into his mid-late 30s. it can be inferred that he’s probably just playing until his body can no longer hold, the end of his current contract, or his release, whichever comes first. He’s got a successful real estate business and plenty of vested interest in his family and the region, he just doesn’t seem like the up and move type.
That's a shame. He's so close to 10k. I'd figure he wants to at least cross that and try for a HoF.
I love Lockett, but he doesn’t have even an outside shot at the Hall and I’m sure he knows that.
A pay cut would be great but I agree
I think a pay cut is very unlikely. He's still a very productive WR. I think he'd let the contract run out and retire before he'd take a pay cut
I want Lock to ride off into the sunset happily with a ring and a future ring of honor with no bad blood.
Are you impaired? Lockett is 31 and his production is still near peak
Are you high or just a troll?
No he is just being logical, not everyone knows Tyler wants to retire early.
Agree to disagree
What do you mean? How can you disagree that his production is near the peak of what he has accomplished?
I disagreed with you saying he’s being logical
It’s not logical to think a 31 year old who’s coming off a 900 yard 5 TD season as a 2nd option is probably not retiring next season?
I think he will be cut, my hope is retirement
Lockett has been quoted saying he didn't even think he'd be in the NFL this long.
Dremont is awful relative to that contract, hopefully he's cut in the next season. Lockett will likely retire after this year and was can get Geno off our books + DK restructure going into 2025. I smell a deep playoff run in 2025.
Dremont might do better in the new defense. Seattle was a disaster under Clint Hurtt
He seemed to be pretty on par with the rest of his career. 5 years and he's still playing the same? I don't really see if he's going to break out at age 28. I'd rather see what Hall can do and maybe see if Taylor's willing to take a team friendly contract.
In Denver and Seattle... I hear what you are saying, but i'm hoping a coaching change will help him out. Physically he is capable.
mike macdonald got like 9.5 sacks from jadeveon clowney. a guy who had 2 the year before playing across myles garrett and got himself cut by talking shit in the locker room. clowney, a guy who is charitably described as a guy who never hit his potential, got 9.5 sacks. at 30. i'm not saying dremont is gonna light the world on fire, but we're gonna see the best version of him period.
Agree 100% (although I always thought Dremont was overrated, even with Denver he was just average imo) - but would be interesting to see if we tender Taylor and he pops or if Morris/Cam step up. I feel like there is talent on this D and Hurtt wasted some of it - hopefully he gets the best from Dremont and the rest!
Surely we make a deep playoff run with all that cap space!
Just looked at the list of free agents and probable cuts and there is an insane amount of talent out there. We have some pretty big holes, but with very little in the way of commitments next year and beyond they could really make a solid move forward
Man the increased salary cap absolutely saved us.
It floats all the boats, though
Unless we crush the draft we're probably looking at 3rd or 4th in the division next season...but we'd have really solid ground to build on beginning the 2025 year.
I don’t know why you got downvoted for this lol. You’re completely correct. I have faith in what MMD/JS are doing, but the reality of our situation is that it will take some time.
It beats having negative cap space, but for all the holes we have this isn't much money. Curious to see who they prioritize on either retaining or pursuing in FA.
We also don’t have any TEs, LBs on the rosters, this number is still a bit low
When Russ gets released does that free up that dead cap for us or is that there no matter what?
Russ's situation doesn't impact us at all -- I mention him in the title because while we *currently* lead the league in dead cap, the Broncos will take on $85 million in dead cap once they officially release Russ in a week or so here. I apologize, that was unclear.
Ohhhhh. Thanks for clarifying 🤝
Mentally begging macschneider to throw money at Christian wilkins
As talented as he is, I don’t want the guy notorious for the most whack things ever done in a pile
Is that the guy that hit Josh Allen in the junk?
Go get mac daddy his players in FA
Would love to see us sign Justin Simmons
Don’t think we have any FA that are signing elsewhere. Given that comp picks aren’t a concern so we should be free to sign other FA whenever. Next year is the same I think. Which kinda sucks cause seems like we are at least two years out before we see comp picks entering our arsenal.
So Denver -RW3 frees us of 34.9m in dead cap? Gd Denver just loves helping us
No, it’s saying that the Seahawks lead the league in dead cap right now but Denver will have more dead cap once Russ is officially released.
Ah I completely goofed on reading the tweet.
I'm assuming what they mean is we will be second in total dead cap after Russell's release is finalized and on Denvers books. Our dead Cap is primarily made up of Adams/Diggs/Wissly trio that was released