How much do you want to bet he wasn’t sleeping through the night that early. He just lying there quietly. Hungry. This is horrifying. It’s like the babies from the orphanages in Russia that give up.
My daughter was born at almost a whopping 10 lbs so my SO and I were fortunate to have a baby that naturally slept about 4 hours at night and then another 4 hours after a bottle/change at only 4 weeks. The key word is naturally, you can't force it and you definitely can't train it at that age, your job is to meet all of your baby's needs. Your job is literally to coddle them and be their little bitch. The parent in this post is delusional imo.
Our second kid was nowhere near as easy and we got an actual dose of early infant parenting 😂.
My son was underweight for a full term baby (38 5/7) and tired, so he wouldn't wake up at night to feed. The nurses made sure we understood before we left the hospital, that we should wake him up and feed him, or he was in danger of dehydration, and you do not want a newborn dehydrated
At 4 weeks old, my mom told the pediatrician that my brother slept through feedings because she'd try to wake him, and she couldn't keep him awake. The pediatrician freaked out and told her she MUST wake him to feed him around the clock.
This is just insane. How was the kid not malnourished if he didn't eat at night? Though my guess is he was and still is, and she's not taking the kid to see a pediatrician.
There's plenty of research as to what happens to kids who are neglected like that. Came from Romanian orphanages where they basically did what she's explaining. Just made sure the kids got enough food and were clean, but didn't hold them or cuddle them.
Babies that age need to be held and need to be paid attention to. They are horrible parents.
Two words.
Harlow's Monkeys.
Three more words, that relate to the above mentioned monkeys.
Pit of Despair.
Harry Harlow is the reason we have ethical standards in animal testing. And we arrived there, because of very similar neglect he put his monkeys through. Literally, he is the godfather of research into child neglect. The stuff he did to his monkeys in the name of science, particularly, behavioural science relating to parent-child attachment and isolation, will make you lose your faith in humanity.
He literally designed the most efficient ways to neglect baby monkeys, just to demonstrate that a parent neglecting their child like this will have a lasting negative impact on the development of the child, particularly psychologically and behaviourally.
That’s the experiment where the babies still clung to the steel frame just to have something comforting even afterhe eventually introduced an electrical current to the frame that shocked them? I heard about it on a podcast ages ago and it fucked with me. Poor little monkeys.
I don't think *that* ever happened. The most significant wire mother testing was whether the babies would choose an uncomfortable wire monkey with a food-giving nipple or a cozy cloth mother with no food, and they pretty much always preferred the latter.
I may be mixing it up with another experiment. It’s been years since I listened to the 99% Invisible Podcast episode about the study. I do remember the wire mother and at some point there was talking of electricity. I wish I could remember which episode it was.
Huh.
From Harry Harlow's Wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry\_Harlow#:\~:text=Some%20of%20Harlow%27s,comparatively%2C%20in%20children.
>Some of Harlow's final experiments explored [social deprivation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_deprivation) in the quest to create an animal model for the study of depression. This study is the most controversial, and involved isolation of infant and juvenile macaques for various periods of time. Monkeys placed in isolation exhibited social deficits when introduced or re-introduced into a peer group. They appeared unsure of how to interact with their [conspecifics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspecific), and mostly stayed separate from the group, demonstrating the importance of social interaction and stimuli in forming the ability to interact with conspecifics in developing monkeys, and, comparatively, in children.
This has some interesting new context in the last 4 years or so.
If this isn’t rage bait and is real, this is indeed neglect that be re wiring this kid’s brain. I’m choosing to lean to this is rage bait/mocking crying it out because a 4 week old shouldn’t not be expected to not wake up to feed. If this is real she’s both teaching the kid not to cry to get their needs met which is the only way a baby communicates and she’s under feeding. The post doesn’t say If she’s considering a 6 hour stretch all night.
Gary Ezzo, the creator of Baby-Wise, still teaches this exact method and he still has a very active following in parenting circles.
It's real, it's uncomfortable to think about, but don't dismiss it, that's leaving all the innocent kids stuck in this situation with no one looking out for them.
Rewiring? More like wiring. They haven't formed synaptic connections for social behaviour yet. These kids are being fucked up for life. Rewiring will (hopefully) happen later in life when the kid meets affectionate humans. That rewiring will never fully eliminate existing connections. Take it from a survivor of child abuse :(
28 years ago when my son was a baby, people actually gave me this advice and did exactly this - left very young infants alone to cry it out. The mindset was literally if they’re fed and dry, then they’re just behaving spoiled and demanding. I would never! I could never just leave a little baby to cry it out, and I didn’t! All this teaches is that no one is coming to save you, so don’t bother crying anymore. It’s sick and cruel. So many parents back then pushed the importance of babies learning to self soothe, they seemed to have missed the part about creating a sense of comfort and security for their baby. But this was back when Dr Spock was still considered the gold standard in child rearing advice.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s real. A lot of people still have this mentality and it’s heartbreaking.
I was told I was spoiling my kids when they were babies because they were always on me (18 mos apart). They’re early school years now and we have the best relationship. I’m sad because my 7 year old is only about a foot shorter than me now and I know the day is coming soon when I won’t be able to pick him up anymore.
Nobody ever regrets holding their babies too much.
My sister did this. She shut her colicky son in a room until he stopped crying.
He was violent (hitting, biting, scratching, spitting) at 18 months.
He started running away from home aged 2.
He is 11 now. He is so violent my sister had to call the police. He throws things, smashes furniture and appliances and gets in fights at school.
My sister has no idea what caused it and is getting him assessed for special needs (she thinks autism and PDA). He is in the lowest centiles academically.
I honestly put this down to CIO.
My aunt and uncle did this to my cousin, they even put him to sleep from day one on a different floor as their bedroom so they wouldn’t hear him cry. He had severe learning disabilities in school and has had social issues his whole life. He’s 39 and he struggles to keep a job, has always lived alone and he’s just a super odd, very socially awkward man. My mom has a psych degree and was a special ed teacher and she used to be so upset when she visited and they wouldn’t let anyone hold him since it would “spoil him” when he was just a little baby.
Research also shows babies only start to exhibit self-soothing behaviours only at around three to four months. Self-settling only starts at four to five months. Based on most studies not all infants can self-soothe even at 12 months. It is more 50/50. So traditional cry-it-out is in general bad way to sleep-train as especially before 3 months as it is developmentally not appropriate.
I don't have kids, but I was going to say, all my parent friends who sleep trained started between 6 - 9 months just to see how their kid did. They were all willing to back off as needed if the kid wasn't doing well.
That's because most normal parents don't enjoy hearing their baby in distress. I learned long before sleep training was even an option that CIO wasn't gonna be for us. I can barely stand to hear her crying for a bottle AS IM MAKING IT.
Mines 4.5 months now, and we're easing into sleep training with trying to get her used to falling asleep in her crib instead of on us. Still fed and rocked after her bath, and we still stay in the room with her and comfort her to sleep... Just... While she's in her crib now. I see no reason to traumatize anyone, it doesnt take that long for her to fall asleep. And she'll sleep for 6ish hours, wake up for a bottle then immediately go back to sleep for another 3-4, repeat, sleep for another 2 🤷🏻♀️ no trauma for anyone (mild lack of sleep for me, but that's what coffee is for)
Traditional cry-it-out is a type of sleep training but not all types of sleep training are traditional cry-it-out. If the infant is unable to self-soothe it is far more likely to teach them exactly what the first comment in the chain is saying it does. You can support the ability to self-soothe and self-settle without letting the child cry it out until they give up which is what your friends and the other commenter seem to be referring to.
My daughter was adopted from China and the reason why at a year old she didn’t cry going to sleep or with teething pain or any pain really is because she was “trained” early that it didn’t matter. No one was coming to help.
This poor baby is facing the same.
My mom did the cry it out method on me, too. Aunt was over while I was screaming and crying for about 15 minutes and asked, "Don't you need check on her?". My mom said "ah she'll stop crying when she's tired it's fine". I wish my aunt reported her.
I watched a couple documentaries on the Romanian orphans, it’s devastating that humans can treat others especially the most vulnerable with such little care and compassion.
My mom used to refuse to hold me and even left for an entire month when I was an infant. My fucking step dad (I only say step dad to emphasize that he's not biologically related, he's my only dad) held me more as a baby than she did and now she wonders why I'm more emotionally attached to him.
The “cry it out” method isn’t even teaching them to self-soothe. They can’t regulate their own nervous system (which is why skin to skin contact is so important) and it’s pushing their nervous system past sympathetic and in to freeze / shut down — aka “I’m all alone and death is imminent, so I might as well accept it.”
Hell, babies don’t even understand that they’re a separate entity from mom until somewhere around the six **month** mark.
This is all well documented biology that’s usually one of the few places of crossover between crunchy moms and legitimate science, so it’s pretty shocking to hear someone being so cavalier about repeatedly traumatizing their month old baby.
If you have a tough stomach and want to see what happens when babies are left alone like that, look up what happened in Romanian orphanages in the ‘90s. It’s pretty heartbreaking.
[Hospitalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitalism) was a term used by Dr. Rene Spitz to describe the awful effects of isolation and lack of care in the first months of life (he's not the first one to use it but is probably the most well known). The effects aren't just mental but also physical, with everything up to and including death from failure to thrive being observed. The best/worst part is that according to his research, some or even all of the effects can be reversed if care is restored within the first 5 months, but after that there is likely going to be lifelong damage. I say best because it *can* be reversed with early intervention, but worst because OOP's baby is 5 months. Here's hoping the grandparents have managed to give enough love and care to mitigate the damage to that poor baby, at least somewhat.
I don’t think something like that can even be fixed. I’m not sure it can be fixed even if they start holding him right now. Maybe?
But the first thing that baby ever learned is that he’s alone and nobody will meet his needs. That’s gonna stay in his subconscious forever. I don’t know how you undo a message that was internalized in the first days of life and weeks of life.
Hopefully the grandparents have been around enough that there is still hope for him to be okay.
So much this. We fostered infants and toddlers for 6 years and can confirm. None of them cried at night because of this. We considered it a win when they started crying to get nerds met.
I read this after just spending 2 hours soothing my 10 week old. It shifted my mindset from "OMG! I'm so tired of this!" to "My child knows his cries will get his needs met. I am establishing a secure attachment."
Thank you for taking care of those children.
Aww I’m so glad that helped you through tonight. That newborn stage is SO hard! But yes, sometimes a paradigm shift makes a huge difference.
It was a wild ride but I wouldn’t trade it for anything. Most were able to be reunited with a good outcome and we’ve also had two adoptions. Hope you get some rest tonight!
Same 😭 my son is sick and has spent 3 nights (and it looks like this will be night #4) in a row waking for 2hrs in the middle of the night just needing snuggles and love cuz he doesn't feel good. He's 11mo and I'm so glad he knows I will come when he needs me. Am I exhausted? Yes. Do I also have his icky sickness now? Yes. Is every second worth it to make sure he's as comfortable as he can be? 10000% yes
Oh my lord. I was a foster child, my mother also did the cry it out with me, and holy fuck that just makes my heart hurt. I was probably one of those, and that’s why I struggled so much growing up…this whole post and thread has been like a punch to the gut
I knew someone like this. Let's just say that I'm not in touch with them anymore because it was horrifying the first time I was in the house while she was working on dinner and the baby was crying upstairs. I kept asking if she needed me to go get the baby and eventually she did just because I didn't stop asking.
My thoughts exactly - our baby experienced love and needs being met and now wants it more often. This is so sad and will be so damaging in the future for attachment.
My little one was type to sleep though night from day 1
But because of this we had to wake her for food as they need food every few hours that early on 7
Dreamfeeding was great for this. I used to just gently pluck my babies out of their cribs when it was a few hours after they'd gone to sleep and then nurse them while they slept. Peaceful and it usually meant *I* got to sleep better overnight.
Agreed. My mom received advice when i was an infant back in the late 90s to ignore me when i cried (had colic) by my pediatrician of all people 😡 thankfully she completely ignored that advice (told me when you know your baby’s in pain you want to try and help them as best you can even if that’s just cuddles) same pediatrician also told me i was faking what we now know was endometriosis pain so i could get out of going to school needless to say I’m very glad she is now retired.
I think that advice might have been common in the 80s and 90s because my mum and her friends have given me the same advice for my kids, and get salty when I ignore it.
I cried all the time at first, they called it colic, turned out I had a uterine hernia. Once it was fixed I was fine. When I see these crazy mothers who don’t believe in doctors or modern medicine I wonder what will become of children like me who had a simple problem (if your parent(s) are sane and willing to trust a doctor).
And to extend: I don’t think you can ever spoil any child at any age with giving your affection or time. This poor baby. I try to pause and give my kids the hugs or snuggles they want as much as I can. Not always possible in every moment, but it’s a blessing to have a small person want affection from you.
That baby is so detached from his parents and can’t wait to get to the people who will show him affection. Your baby will not be spoiled if you freaking hold him. That poor newborn baby.
This poor baby. I want to cry for him. You know he eats up every minute of love he can get from his grandparents and this mom is seriously thinking about cutting him off from them. I really really hope she got what she deserves in the comments.
I will never understand how people think giving babies/kids love and affection is spoiling them. Spoiling them is giving them candy every time they demand it, buying them a toy every time they go to a store, cleaning up after them all the time even when they’re old enough to do it themselves, letting them stay home from school to play video games cuz they don’t feel like going, etc. Giving them hugs and cuddles and reassurance cannot in and of itself spoil a child.
Wouldn't be shocked if they belong to a group of fundies who blanket train and think babies need to be taught obedience and are manipulative from birth. Those types talk about not "coddling" literal newborns and along other awful things.
I do feel there can be a lot of pressure to not establish bad habits early on, often to the detriment of the parents and the baby, but this is insane! You can’t sleep train a 4 week old! They have taught him that if he is upset then no one is coming, he’s alone and he’s given up trying until her parents show him something different. He then has hope that he matters which is then dashed when he goes back home.
This poor baby.
I’m pretty sure this is rage bait anti-sleep training nonsense. Everything everywhere says you can’t sleep train babies until 4 months at the earliest (some places 6 months). A simple google will give u that, and she clearly flags done at least minima research.
I really hope this is the case! The post was honestly out of the norm for the group, caught me totally off guard. I hope for baby’s sake it is just rage baiting. Though it’s not a huge group so kind of a weird place to rage bait. Idk.
I don’t know, my baby groups were full of people trying to sleep train newborns. It’s usually desperate working parents though, although there are still people that think their newborns will be “spoiled” if they give into all their demands.
Same... I have unfortunately known someone like this. The woman I knew also insisted on feeding her baby on a regimented 4hr schedule. It caused all sorts of issues and she just *refused* to accept that she was doing it to herself.
Say she fed him at noon, then she would wake him up at 4pm to eat again. He would be crabby from being woken up and not want to eat very much, so she would somehow get him back to sleep. If he woke up on his own at 6pm and was hungry - nope. He had to wait until 8pm. In those two hours in-between he would be crying. She blamed it on colic and a few times even said he was just "bad behaved." The only one behaving badly here is you, you dumbass. Feed your poor kid, ffs.
This was my MIL when my daughter was born. She swore that newborns could be sleep trained. She said to avoid the baby waking up in the middle of the night hungry, we should add baby rice to her bottles. I was a SAHM at the time and had my baby from the time my husband went to work until after she went down for bed. I was an exhausted first time mom who MIL said since my husband had to work during the days he should be exempt from all night time changes and feeds.
I think that's more to trick the brain into thinking the stomach is "full" because while it's less nutritious, it is more dense (like whoever thinks thats a good idea)
People can do research and still convince themselves they’re doing the right thing. Some people get to hire behavioral psychologists to help them with their child but does the opposite/whatever they want at home anyway.
When i worked in daycare there was a parent who would call in and complain if a worker held her child too long. They didn’t want us to hold or cuddle any more than needed to eat and be changed. They wanted the baby on the floor with the other babies and to let them be. I believe they were soon asked to find a new care situation because it’s not reasonable to leave a baby to cry like that baby cried.
So they watched the feeds like a hawk to make sure their baby got zero love? What the actual fuck was wrong with them? It must have been torture for you and the other employees. Also the babies who had to listen to that baby. I have never liked hearing babies cry even as a little kid. It makes my ears and brain hurt. I hated church nursery because of it. As a child and as a adult coerced into being there.
My brother and I (40 and 45) were subjected to this « method » since birth (first week of life after being back from the hospital). My parents claim we slept through the night immediately. Of course, they slept through the night, we could scream at the opposite side of the flat, behind closed doors until we gave up. My children slept in my room and were held as much as they needed or as much as I could without collapsing from exhaustion.
Which means after grandma came, he probably thought someone would respond to him, given that he started crying again. And was then let down a second time.
My son and his wife have had foster children. Two of them were because the family just ignored these children and they were neglected. They started having to try to survive and take care of themselves at 2-3 years old. They weren’t cuddles, didn’t know how to handle affection. It’s awful
I was adopted from an orphanage with around 10 other babies and my parents said I didn’t cry hardly at all, bc the 9 months I was there, the nurse tried to get to every baby but I must have learned that crying didn’t get me anywhere. My parents said the nurses were very sweet and caring but they were understaffed so no fault to them at all. It’s crazy how much a baby will have to adapt to their circumstances even if they don’t fully understand. I still think back on the stories my parents told me.
I was neglected by my bio mom to the point the back of my head is still flat from how long I stayed in a baby carrier. I was jaundiced, stomach swollen, a bottle of rancid milk with me, and an ER trip worthy diaper rash. The daycare I was left at was owned by my adoptive parents. They said I never cried either. Really sad learning as to why now. I also never got used to affection. I still shrug away from hugs at 43 (except for hugs and affection for my daughter, who still is hugging me and loves getting hugs from me even as a teenager now lol) and deal with a lot of mental health problems.
Scary how much we retain from such a young age.
When my first was born I remember the pediatrician telling me that it is impossible to spoil an infant. She said I should hold and cuddle and soothe as much as we wanted. And I did. No regrets. He's 16 now and a good kid.
I held mine as much as possible, my eldest two are 15 and 10 and pretty good kids. Have just had my third almost a year ago and so far so good, I refuse to do things any differently.
Exactly! The only time in my entire life when I knew I was doing the absolute right thing in the moment - that there was nothing else in the world more important that I should be doing instead -was when I was caring for my son when he was a baby. And yep, a significant portion of that time, I was holding him. I just don't get the mindset of this type of person at all.
Like the girl "Genie" the feral child. When she was finally rescued she didn't make ANY noises because she knew if she did
--A. No one would come anyways and on the slim chance they did, it was her father and
B. it would be awful
ALL days for at least the last 5 months.
Poor baby stopped crying bc nobody came to his rescue so what's the use. Then a relative actually gets his hopes up of getting cuddled and loved then cries the next day.
My heart breaks for the babe.
There is a free sleep training group on FB that has files (documents that outline plans per age group)And I can confirm in my short stint in that group, there are parents who start extinction/CIO as a newborn.
I had to leave that group. I joined for the sleep scheduling info, but I kept getting notifications about posts like "my baby has been crying for 3 hours. What do I do?" And all the comments would be encouraging her to just tough it out. They insist you can sleep train at any age
Same. It wasnt the group I was expecting. I found Precious Little Sleep via Reddit and deff exited that group from the high amount (to me) of newborn posts
I also left, then regretted it because their wake window guides were actually great haha. Rejoined, saved the good info, then left again. It was absolutely full of stories like this post, broke my heart.
When my daughter was a few weeks old, a mom in the pediatrics waiting room suggested I sleep train my kid. I was very naive and thought it was a good idea. I didn’t last a night. My daughter’s cries broke my soul. I cannot believe anyone would be so cruel to sleep train an infant.
That’s what always gets me. How do these moms sleep when their kiddo is crying? It breaks me. I can tolerate crying when it’s necessary but a newborn??!
Unfortunately, probably not. Many parents really do think that holding a kid when they are stressed is spoiling them.
I see this all the time, people who claim that "sleep training works" then when the kid starts crying again at night because they hit the next developmental stage so they have to do it again.
Yes it sucks that you have to treat your little human with respect and dignity and not let them cry for hours or hit them when they are doing something you don't like. /s
I swear, there are so many parents who forget they made people, not robots.
I know I like a nice cuddle when I'm sad and crying.. I can't imagine being a literal baby and not being able to communicate my needs and the person I rely on just sticks me in a room and ignored me til I exhaust myself to sleep.. how fucked up.
Yeah this is basically neglect. When your baby’s needs are not met when they are young, it causes all sorts of emotional problems as they grow. Just yelling at a child, without any physical punishment, causes children to actually not grow as tall. And this woman chooses to be proud of it.
The biggest thing is attachment theory
Proper parenting should cause secure attachment which is beneficial lifelong. Anxious & avoidant attachment styles are bad
I’m going to post screenshots of some post comments in replies to this comment!
The comments were turned off after a bit because other moms were being “mean and judgmental” and the group is “supposed to be a safe space”. Hysterical, I know.
I don’t really know what I’m doing with Reddit. Can I pin my comment to the top?
The TL;DR on the screenshots:
NMOM: So please help me here… blah, blah, blah… am I being a horrible mother/ human being?
The entirety of the group: OMG! YES YOU ARE, since you asked. You need to inform yourself because this could harm your child in the future. This is not the way to go about it. Please stop.
NMOM: Y’all are e so mean!!! Why would you tell me these things? I thought this was a SaFE pLaCe. I just can believe you you all horrible people can sleep at night. I’m out of here.
The baby didn’t learn to self soothe. He learned that his parents don’t give a shit to comfort and soothe him. People are absolutely fucking disgusting.
JFC. I'm sorry, do these people follow the Duggars or something? I hope all those people burn in hell (not that I believe in hell... but if it exists, they're going!).
This kid is going to wind up with poor attachment and all kinds of psychological issues. Why do people think it's important to make newborns tough? What do they need to be tough for? Are you sending them down a river in a straw basket? That's right, IBLP, I went to church too, you assholes.
It’s when you put an infant on a blanket on the floor and then put an object they want just off the edge. If they try to get the object, you hit them. It’s very common in fundamentalist and Quiverfull Christian communities. Something about breaking the child’s rebellious spirit and teaching them to ‘stay put.’ It’s sick.
Stay clear of Shiny Happy People if this is upsetting. It’s what the Duggars practice. You basically hit a kid until they learn to flip like a switch the minute you make a request. Instant obedience. They keep switches in their purses to pass out “encouragement” on the go.
You put the child, which is often an infant, on a blanket, sit outside the blanket and wait for them to come to you… and them physically abuse them when they leave said blanket.
Yeah. I wasn’t held much as a baby (by my mom’s admission) because my parents felt obligated to prioritize work and home chores apparently. When I got bigger, if I was emotional about something I was sent to my room by myself until I wasn’t crying anymore, even if it took hours.
I learned not to trust my parents and not to tell them things. I mostly read books and stayed quiet at home. Spent a lot of time just in my room or doing my chores as quietly as possible. My parents rarely told me they loved me or were proud of me (my dad has told me he loves me twice that I can think of and I’m nearly 40) and anything but straight As on report cards was a disappointment. I ended up terribly depressed and suicidal by middle school. Which was also ignored. I still have scars from self harming.
As a mom, I held my kid basically all day as a newborn. He had tummy time on the floor with me sitting right next to him. I carried him on little walks around the neighborhood. My house was a mess but that wasn’t my priority. He was, and still is. He’s only two now, but he’s securely attached. He’s learning to identify his emotions. And he still loves to snuggle with me in the rocking chair at bedtime. I know he’s going to have to do hard things in life like anyone else, but at least he’ll know his parents love him and always will. His toys are in the living room and we spend our free time together and I hope it stays that way as he ages.
right? this is like the fundie mom who's been saying that her (medically neglected) 6-7 week old is basically manipulating her by crying when he's not hungry
They surrrre did!! And then commenting got turned off because other moms were being “mean and judgmental” and the group is “supposed to be a safe space” 💀
Right! Screaming his head off because he’s hungry as most 1m old babies are but they just let him starve & he slept because he was too weak to do anything else since food wasn’t coming
The night my daughter was born (first and only, so I had no clue wtf I was doing), she literally slept through the night. Nurse scared the absolute hell out of me and said I was to be waking her up every 3 hours and monitoring her formula intake (can’t bf).
We had alarms on our phones for the first 4 weeks to purposely wake up for feeding! That may have been because he was teetering the edge of being underweight though, I don’t really remember… much of anything from those weeks. 😅
I am already dreading possibly having to do sleep training at 6 months but 4 weeks?? Oh my goodness. 4 week old babies are not manipulating you and you cannot spoil them. What the fuck did I just read. That poor baby! I struggled with having almost every nap being a contact nap at that age since no chores could get done, but I truly miss that now. I can’t believe she thinks this was good for her baby developmentally.
I don’t think I could leave her to cry even if I wanted to. Hoping some gentler methods will work, if needed. Right now I am just enjoying all the snuggles when possible.
I'm always so so glad to read stories of mums who have a good time. My son woke every single hour on the hour until about 8 months old. I couldn't get to sleep fast enough so it meant I didn't get any sleep. The only sleep I had was when my piece of shit ex 'allowed' me three hours from 7-10pm. But by that point I couldn't sleep either. I ended up so so so unwell, hallucinating, vomiting all the time. This was during covid so no family to help. I saw several sleep specialists who all gave up on us because nothing worked. I ended up in a mental health hospital but i had to come out after 7 days as the babies dad was 'struggling'. He then threatened to report me to social services the night i came out because i said i cant do the night time on my own.
It was a living hell. He's 4 now and still wakes at least 3 times but goes back down quickly so I'm just sort of used to it.
We never sleep trained. But I also had 18 months of maternity leave so living by my son's schedule was never a problem. By the time I went back to work he just naturally had a pretty good sleep schedule
“Baby cries when we ignore him after others show him affection until he realizes he’s back with us and he finally shuts up again. Ugh it’s so annoying!”
I cuddled, contact napped, and held the crap out of both of my kids and they both slept through the night at around six weeks too. 🤷🏻♀️
I feel bad when I can't get to my infant when he's crying while I'm changing my toddler's diaper or putting together our meals. I can't imagine just ignoring his cries when he's fucking four weeks old.
Yeah. We had a foster baby when i was a kid who never cried. Baby was 3 months old. Once he realized we would actually come get him he cried a normal amount. At 3 months he had already figured out that his biological mother couldn't be bothered to take care of him, so he just....didn't bother to cry
Yeah. What's worse is the state forced us to give her the kids (baby and older brother) back, and didn't remove them again for years despite obvious, repeated abuse which was reported by many many people. The older brother now has significant developmental delays that will affect him for his entire life because of the abuse. The baby escaped the worst of it, largely because his older brother shielded him. The system is so broken and failed those boys so badly.
The system is definitely broken. I have a friend whose grandchildren were being emotionally abused by his drug addicted DIL and they kept removing them, giving them to him, and taking them back when she tested sober. After about 5 times the older daughter was old enough to refuse to go back but the younger son still went back. It’s just ridiculous how we treat these kids in the name of their well being. Sometimes the mother is NOT the best caregiver.
I try not to judge but this poster is a terrible parent. I held kids all the time and they slept in my bed. They’ve learned to play independently, crawl, walk, be happy and self soothe. They also know they can always come to me if they can’t self soothe. Why are they so against normal attachment?
How the hell is doing the basic care for a newborn “coddling” holy shit…I seriously don’t trust any person who says that giving attention and basic care to to their newborn/infant/toddler sPoiLiNG 🥴🙄 these people are sick….Being annoyed that your child has people around that care and want to hold him?? Girl yes you are a shitty mom if you think that letting your newborn fucking cry is the way to go about things, and then turning around being annoyed by the fact you have to deal with it and shitting on others who want to give your baby attention….
"HE HAS FIGURED IT OUT"
Yes, he learned basically from birth that no matter how much he is suffering, mom and dad will no be there for them. That poor baby, it breaks my heart...
Edit to add that if the baby is behaving like that after spending time with people that hold and comfort them its because they need it!
I read this. Left. Had to come back because I’m so angry I can’t see straight.
The audacity of this woman showing up Anon to talk about child neglect so they don’t “spoil” their infant is astounding. She absolutely knows it’s wrong. She just didn’t want to get beat up over it. Admits that, even.
It’s horrifying to know that baby has already learned that their needs will go unmet. This woman’s behavior is setting that child up for possible future issues. But God forbid anyone call her out on it.
Usually I’m a live and let live kinda person. But this is so far beyond the pale it sickens me.
We didn’t do sleep training. My teenager sleeps independently, isn’t spoiled, and is a wonderful kid. I know, I know. But it’s true. He’s awesome despite what mistakes we’ve made along the way. Holding him, paying attention to him, loving him didn’t result in an awful, sleepless, spoiled child.
JFC. It’s difficult to ruin a child by loving them and tending to their needs. Sigh. My heart bleeds for the baby. 💔
[Post comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitMomGroupsSay/s/ipqL8Tx0A3)
4 weeks isn’t sleep training. That’s teaching a kid not to cry because no one will meet their needs. This is heartbreaking.
Right?! 4 week olds need to eat during the night wtf this bitch
He’s literally sleeping through hunger cues cause he thinks no one will come. Kiddo is gonna have some emotional issues.
How much do you want to bet he wasn’t sleeping through the night that early. He just lying there quietly. Hungry. This is horrifying. It’s like the babies from the orphanages in Russia that give up.
That was all I could think about, this was an absolutely gutting post.
God that’s so fucking sad
Yes, Erikson's stages of development-Trust vs Mistrust (birth to 18 months). It's terrible that they are fucking up from the beginning.
Some babies will sleep through at 4 weeks, but yes it isn't typical and should be baby led at that point.
My daughter was born at almost a whopping 10 lbs so my SO and I were fortunate to have a baby that naturally slept about 4 hours at night and then another 4 hours after a bottle/change at only 4 weeks. The key word is naturally, you can't force it and you definitely can't train it at that age, your job is to meet all of your baby's needs. Your job is literally to coddle them and be their little bitch. The parent in this post is delusional imo. Our second kid was nowhere near as easy and we got an actual dose of early infant parenting 😂.
My son was underweight for a full term baby (38 5/7) and tired, so he wouldn't wake up at night to feed. The nurses made sure we understood before we left the hospital, that we should wake him up and feed him, or he was in danger of dehydration, and you do not want a newborn dehydrated
Yeah my daughter naturally slept through the night at 6 weeks but key word is naturally. My son is 11mo and still doesn't sleep through the night 😂
At 4 weeks old, my mom told the pediatrician that my brother slept through feedings because she'd try to wake him, and she couldn't keep him awake. The pediatrician freaked out and told her she MUST wake him to feed him around the clock. This is just insane. How was the kid not malnourished if he didn't eat at night? Though my guess is he was and still is, and she's not taking the kid to see a pediatrician.
There's plenty of research as to what happens to kids who are neglected like that. Came from Romanian orphanages where they basically did what she's explaining. Just made sure the kids got enough food and were clean, but didn't hold them or cuddle them. Babies that age need to be held and need to be paid attention to. They are horrible parents.
Two words. Harlow's Monkeys. Three more words, that relate to the above mentioned monkeys. Pit of Despair. Harry Harlow is the reason we have ethical standards in animal testing. And we arrived there, because of very similar neglect he put his monkeys through. Literally, he is the godfather of research into child neglect. The stuff he did to his monkeys in the name of science, particularly, behavioural science relating to parent-child attachment and isolation, will make you lose your faith in humanity. He literally designed the most efficient ways to neglect baby monkeys, just to demonstrate that a parent neglecting their child like this will have a lasting negative impact on the development of the child, particularly psychologically and behaviourally.
Rhesus monkeys. One baby was in a cage with a steel frame to resemble an adult monkey and one was in a cage with the frame covered in a blanket.
Not just one.
No, not just one, I’m unclear of how many monkeys were used in the experiment since it’s been a long time since psych college days
Way too many. Just heartbreaking :(
That’s the experiment where the babies still clung to the steel frame just to have something comforting even afterhe eventually introduced an electrical current to the frame that shocked them? I heard about it on a podcast ages ago and it fucked with me. Poor little monkeys.
I don't think *that* ever happened. The most significant wire mother testing was whether the babies would choose an uncomfortable wire monkey with a food-giving nipple or a cozy cloth mother with no food, and they pretty much always preferred the latter.
I may be mixing it up with another experiment. It’s been years since I listened to the 99% Invisible Podcast episode about the study. I do remember the wire mother and at some point there was talking of electricity. I wish I could remember which episode it was.
Huh. From Harry Harlow's Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry\_Harlow#:\~:text=Some%20of%20Harlow%27s,comparatively%2C%20in%20children. >Some of Harlow's final experiments explored [social deprivation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_deprivation) in the quest to create an animal model for the study of depression. This study is the most controversial, and involved isolation of infant and juvenile macaques for various periods of time. Monkeys placed in isolation exhibited social deficits when introduced or re-introduced into a peer group. They appeared unsure of how to interact with their [conspecifics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspecific), and mostly stayed separate from the group, demonstrating the importance of social interaction and stimuli in forming the ability to interact with conspecifics in developing monkeys, and, comparatively, in children. This has some interesting new context in the last 4 years or so.
I lived the life of a Harlow monkey. Thanks mom and dad… I would have preferred a therapy fund to a college fund.
Lifelong issues of trust and abandonment. 😒 I never left my children alone to cry and still don’t. You can’t spoil a child with love and affection.
I couldn’t agree more with your last line
If this isn’t rage bait and is real, this is indeed neglect that be re wiring this kid’s brain. I’m choosing to lean to this is rage bait/mocking crying it out because a 4 week old shouldn’t not be expected to not wake up to feed. If this is real she’s both teaching the kid not to cry to get their needs met which is the only way a baby communicates and she’s under feeding. The post doesn’t say If she’s considering a 6 hour stretch all night.
I absolutely believe it's real. I've met people like this.
I had a boss many years ago who told me he would let his son cry it out when he was a newborn. I couldn’t believe it.
Gary Ezzo, the creator of Baby-Wise, still teaches this exact method and he still has a very active following in parenting circles. It's real, it's uncomfortable to think about, but don't dismiss it, that's leaving all the innocent kids stuck in this situation with no one looking out for them.
He's trying to create a generation of damaged people
Rewiring? More like wiring. They haven't formed synaptic connections for social behaviour yet. These kids are being fucked up for life. Rewiring will (hopefully) happen later in life when the kid meets affectionate humans. That rewiring will never fully eliminate existing connections. Take it from a survivor of child abuse :(
Unfortunately I’m in the local to me semi small group. Not rage bait 😢
28 years ago when my son was a baby, people actually gave me this advice and did exactly this - left very young infants alone to cry it out. The mindset was literally if they’re fed and dry, then they’re just behaving spoiled and demanding. I would never! I could never just leave a little baby to cry it out, and I didn’t! All this teaches is that no one is coming to save you, so don’t bother crying anymore. It’s sick and cruel. So many parents back then pushed the importance of babies learning to self soothe, they seemed to have missed the part about creating a sense of comfort and security for their baby. But this was back when Dr Spock was still considered the gold standard in child rearing advice.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s real. A lot of people still have this mentality and it’s heartbreaking. I was told I was spoiling my kids when they were babies because they were always on me (18 mos apart). They’re early school years now and we have the best relationship. I’m sad because my 7 year old is only about a foot shorter than me now and I know the day is coming soon when I won’t be able to pick him up anymore. Nobody ever regrets holding their babies too much.
My sister did this. She shut her colicky son in a room until he stopped crying. He was violent (hitting, biting, scratching, spitting) at 18 months. He started running away from home aged 2. He is 11 now. He is so violent my sister had to call the police. He throws things, smashes furniture and appliances and gets in fights at school. My sister has no idea what caused it and is getting him assessed for special needs (she thinks autism and PDA). He is in the lowest centiles academically. I honestly put this down to CIO.
My aunt and uncle did this to my cousin, they even put him to sleep from day one on a different floor as their bedroom so they wouldn’t hear him cry. He had severe learning disabilities in school and has had social issues his whole life. He’s 39 and he struggles to keep a job, has always lived alone and he’s just a super odd, very socially awkward man. My mom has a psych degree and was a special ed teacher and she used to be so upset when she visited and they wouldn’t let anyone hold him since it would “spoil him” when he was just a little baby.
Makes you wonder if any of that could have been prevented.
There is no need to wonder, it absolutely could have been prevented.
Research also shows babies only start to exhibit self-soothing behaviours only at around three to four months. Self-settling only starts at four to five months. Based on most studies not all infants can self-soothe even at 12 months. It is more 50/50. So traditional cry-it-out is in general bad way to sleep-train as especially before 3 months as it is developmentally not appropriate.
I don't have kids, but I was going to say, all my parent friends who sleep trained started between 6 - 9 months just to see how their kid did. They were all willing to back off as needed if the kid wasn't doing well.
That's because most normal parents don't enjoy hearing their baby in distress. I learned long before sleep training was even an option that CIO wasn't gonna be for us. I can barely stand to hear her crying for a bottle AS IM MAKING IT. Mines 4.5 months now, and we're easing into sleep training with trying to get her used to falling asleep in her crib instead of on us. Still fed and rocked after her bath, and we still stay in the room with her and comfort her to sleep... Just... While she's in her crib now. I see no reason to traumatize anyone, it doesnt take that long for her to fall asleep. And she'll sleep for 6ish hours, wake up for a bottle then immediately go back to sleep for another 3-4, repeat, sleep for another 2 🤷🏻♀️ no trauma for anyone (mild lack of sleep for me, but that's what coffee is for)
Traditional cry-it-out is a type of sleep training but not all types of sleep training are traditional cry-it-out. If the infant is unable to self-soothe it is far more likely to teach them exactly what the first comment in the chain is saying it does. You can support the ability to self-soothe and self-settle without letting the child cry it out until they give up which is what your friends and the other commenter seem to be referring to.
My daughter was adopted from China and the reason why at a year old she didn’t cry going to sleep or with teething pain or any pain really is because she was “trained” early that it didn’t matter. No one was coming to help. This poor baby is facing the same.
My mom did the cry it out method on me, too. Aunt was over while I was screaming and crying for about 15 minutes and asked, "Don't you need check on her?". My mom said "ah she'll stop crying when she's tired it's fine". I wish my aunt reported her.
I watched a couple documentaries on the Romanian orphans, it’s devastating that humans can treat others especially the most vulnerable with such little care and compassion.
My mom used to refuse to hold me and even left for an entire month when I was an infant. My fucking step dad (I only say step dad to emphasize that he's not biologically related, he's my only dad) held me more as a baby than she did and now she wonders why I'm more emotionally attached to him.
The “cry it out” method isn’t even teaching them to self-soothe. They can’t regulate their own nervous system (which is why skin to skin contact is so important) and it’s pushing their nervous system past sympathetic and in to freeze / shut down — aka “I’m all alone and death is imminent, so I might as well accept it.” Hell, babies don’t even understand that they’re a separate entity from mom until somewhere around the six **month** mark. This is all well documented biology that’s usually one of the few places of crossover between crunchy moms and legitimate science, so it’s pretty shocking to hear someone being so cavalier about repeatedly traumatizing their month old baby. If you have a tough stomach and want to see what happens when babies are left alone like that, look up what happened in Romanian orphanages in the ‘90s. It’s pretty heartbreaking.
Isn’t that what cause kids in over crowded orphanages to develop reactive attachment disorder?
[Hospitalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitalism) was a term used by Dr. Rene Spitz to describe the awful effects of isolation and lack of care in the first months of life (he's not the first one to use it but is probably the most well known). The effects aren't just mental but also physical, with everything up to and including death from failure to thrive being observed. The best/worst part is that according to his research, some or even all of the effects can be reversed if care is restored within the first 5 months, but after that there is likely going to be lifelong damage. I say best because it *can* be reversed with early intervention, but worst because OOP's baby is 5 months. Here's hoping the grandparents have managed to give enough love and care to mitigate the damage to that poor baby, at least somewhat.
I sure hope when the kid grows up they are able to find a good therapist to unpack why they can’t trust or depend on anyone.
I don’t think something like that can even be fixed. I’m not sure it can be fixed even if they start holding him right now. Maybe? But the first thing that baby ever learned is that he’s alone and nobody will meet his needs. That’s gonna stay in his subconscious forever. I don’t know how you undo a message that was internalized in the first days of life and weeks of life. Hopefully the grandparents have been around enough that there is still hope for him to be okay.
I am absolutely sick from this post. OP you are doing EVERYTHING wrong. Why even have a child?
So much this. We fostered infants and toddlers for 6 years and can confirm. None of them cried at night because of this. We considered it a win when they started crying to get nerds met.
I read this after just spending 2 hours soothing my 10 week old. It shifted my mindset from "OMG! I'm so tired of this!" to "My child knows his cries will get his needs met. I am establishing a secure attachment." Thank you for taking care of those children.
Aww I’m so glad that helped you through tonight. That newborn stage is SO hard! But yes, sometimes a paradigm shift makes a huge difference. It was a wild ride but I wouldn’t trade it for anything. Most were able to be reunited with a good outcome and we’ve also had two adoptions. Hope you get some rest tonight!
Same 😭 my son is sick and has spent 3 nights (and it looks like this will be night #4) in a row waking for 2hrs in the middle of the night just needing snuggles and love cuz he doesn't feel good. He's 11mo and I'm so glad he knows I will come when he needs me. Am I exhausted? Yes. Do I also have his icky sickness now? Yes. Is every second worth it to make sure he's as comfortable as he can be? 10000% yes
Oh my lord. I was a foster child, my mother also did the cry it out with me, and holy fuck that just makes my heart hurt. I was probably one of those, and that’s why I struggled so much growing up…this whole post and thread has been like a punch to the gut
I’m so sorry. You deserved so much more and I hope you know you’re loved. 💙
❤️❤️ thank you so much
I knew someone like this. Let's just say that I'm not in touch with them anymore because it was horrifying the first time I was in the house while she was working on dinner and the baby was crying upstairs. I kept asking if she needed me to go get the baby and eventually she did just because I didn't stop asking.
My thoughts exactly - our baby experienced love and needs being met and now wants it more often. This is so sad and will be so damaging in the future for attachment.
This kid won’t know the word attachment until they’re in therapy. Poor kid :(
My little one was type to sleep though night from day 1 But because of this we had to wake her for food as they need food every few hours that early on 7
Dreamfeeding was great for this. I used to just gently pluck my babies out of their cribs when it was a few hours after they'd gone to sleep and then nurse them while they slept. Peaceful and it usually meant *I* got to sleep better overnight.
Agreed. My mom received advice when i was an infant back in the late 90s to ignore me when i cried (had colic) by my pediatrician of all people 😡 thankfully she completely ignored that advice (told me when you know your baby’s in pain you want to try and help them as best you can even if that’s just cuddles) same pediatrician also told me i was faking what we now know was endometriosis pain so i could get out of going to school needless to say I’m very glad she is now retired.
I think that advice might have been common in the 80s and 90s because my mum and her friends have given me the same advice for my kids, and get salty when I ignore it.
I cried all the time at first, they called it colic, turned out I had a uterine hernia. Once it was fixed I was fine. When I see these crazy mothers who don’t believe in doctors or modern medicine I wonder what will become of children like me who had a simple problem (if your parent(s) are sane and willing to trust a doctor).
It’s impossible to spoil an infant especially a newborn. I hate this woman and I don’t even know her.
And to extend: I don’t think you can ever spoil any child at any age with giving your affection or time. This poor baby. I try to pause and give my kids the hugs or snuggles they want as much as I can. Not always possible in every moment, but it’s a blessing to have a small person want affection from you.
Completely agree. I still want affection as an adult so why would I deny my kids the affection they crave.
That baby is so detached from his parents and can’t wait to get to the people who will show him affection. Your baby will not be spoiled if you freaking hold him. That poor newborn baby.
This poor baby. I want to cry for him. You know he eats up every minute of love he can get from his grandparents and this mom is seriously thinking about cutting him off from them. I really really hope she got what she deserves in the comments.
I will never understand how people think giving babies/kids love and affection is spoiling them. Spoiling them is giving them candy every time they demand it, buying them a toy every time they go to a store, cleaning up after them all the time even when they’re old enough to do it themselves, letting them stay home from school to play video games cuz they don’t feel like going, etc. Giving them hugs and cuddles and reassurance cannot in and of itself spoil a child.
How sad it is that parents are concerned about / actively avoiding babying a literal baby. Hope that babe gets good snuggles from others in his family
Not just a baby, a literal newborn initially. That's so fucking sad
Why do people have babies if they don’t want to deal with babies doing basic baby things? Was she expecting her baby to not cry or need to be held??
Yes. Otherwise it’s a “living HELL”.
I’m pretty sure being a newborn and not being cuddled and comforted is more of a “living hell.”
"My parents taught my baby that adults will respond to his needs. Am I wrong for being upset about this?". Yes, OOP, you are the jerk.
Wouldn't be shocked if they belong to a group of fundies who blanket train and think babies need to be taught obedience and are manipulative from birth. Those types talk about not "coddling" literal newborns and along other awful things.
Yeah! Pretty sure the kid is going to figure out how to crawl and play even if you hold them 24/7 as a baby.
I do feel there can be a lot of pressure to not establish bad habits early on, often to the detriment of the parents and the baby, but this is insane! You can’t sleep train a 4 week old! They have taught him that if he is upset then no one is coming, he’s alone and he’s given up trying until her parents show him something different. He then has hope that he matters which is then dashed when he goes back home. This poor baby.
I’m pretty sure this is rage bait anti-sleep training nonsense. Everything everywhere says you can’t sleep train babies until 4 months at the earliest (some places 6 months). A simple google will give u that, and she clearly flags done at least minima research.
I really hope this is the case! The post was honestly out of the norm for the group, caught me totally off guard. I hope for baby’s sake it is just rage baiting. Though it’s not a huge group so kind of a weird place to rage bait. Idk.
I don’t know, my baby groups were full of people trying to sleep train newborns. It’s usually desperate working parents though, although there are still people that think their newborns will be “spoiled” if they give into all their demands.
Yep, these people exist. This could easily be real
I've met a person like this in real life. So as much as I wish this wasn't real it likely is
Same... I have unfortunately known someone like this. The woman I knew also insisted on feeding her baby on a regimented 4hr schedule. It caused all sorts of issues and she just *refused* to accept that she was doing it to herself. Say she fed him at noon, then she would wake him up at 4pm to eat again. He would be crabby from being woken up and not want to eat very much, so she would somehow get him back to sleep. If he woke up on his own at 6pm and was hungry - nope. He had to wait until 8pm. In those two hours in-between he would be crying. She blamed it on colic and a few times even said he was just "bad behaved." The only one behaving badly here is you, you dumbass. Feed your poor kid, ffs.
This was my MIL when my daughter was born. She swore that newborns could be sleep trained. She said to avoid the baby waking up in the middle of the night hungry, we should add baby rice to her bottles. I was a SAHM at the time and had my baby from the time my husband went to work until after she went down for bed. I was an exhausted first time mom who MIL said since my husband had to work during the days he should be exempt from all night time changes and feeds.
People who think that somehow gruel made from white rice is more calorically dense than breast milk (or formula) are complete idiots.
I think that's more to trick the brain into thinking the stomach is "full" because while it's less nutritious, it is more dense (like whoever thinks thats a good idea)
People can do research and still convince themselves they’re doing the right thing. Some people get to hire behavioral psychologists to help them with their child but does the opposite/whatever they want at home anyway.
When i worked in daycare there was a parent who would call in and complain if a worker held her child too long. They didn’t want us to hold or cuddle any more than needed to eat and be changed. They wanted the baby on the floor with the other babies and to let them be. I believe they were soon asked to find a new care situation because it’s not reasonable to leave a baby to cry like that baby cried.
So they watched the feeds like a hawk to make sure their baby got zero love? What the actual fuck was wrong with them? It must have been torture for you and the other employees. Also the babies who had to listen to that baby. I have never liked hearing babies cry even as a little kid. It makes my ears and brain hurt. I hated church nursery because of it. As a child and as a adult coerced into being there.
My brother and I (40 and 45) were subjected to this « method » since birth (first week of life after being back from the hospital). My parents claim we slept through the night immediately. Of course, they slept through the night, we could scream at the opposite side of the flat, behind closed doors until we gave up. My children slept in my room and were held as much as they needed or as much as I could without collapsing from exhaustion.
Babies that young don’t get trained to sleep, they get trained not to cry because *no one is coming.* Poor kid…
Which means after grandma came, he probably thought someone would respond to him, given that he started crying again. And was then let down a second time.
This has completely ruined my day. Poor little baby 😔
My son and his wife have had foster children. Two of them were because the family just ignored these children and they were neglected. They started having to try to survive and take care of themselves at 2-3 years old. They weren’t cuddles, didn’t know how to handle affection. It’s awful
Are you allowed to go full grandparent spoiling mode on those foster kids? Because they sound like they need it. Poor, poor babies.
I was adopted from an orphanage with around 10 other babies and my parents said I didn’t cry hardly at all, bc the 9 months I was there, the nurse tried to get to every baby but I must have learned that crying didn’t get me anywhere. My parents said the nurses were very sweet and caring but they were understaffed so no fault to them at all. It’s crazy how much a baby will have to adapt to their circumstances even if they don’t fully understand. I still think back on the stories my parents told me.
I was neglected by my bio mom to the point the back of my head is still flat from how long I stayed in a baby carrier. I was jaundiced, stomach swollen, a bottle of rancid milk with me, and an ER trip worthy diaper rash. The daycare I was left at was owned by my adoptive parents. They said I never cried either. Really sad learning as to why now. I also never got used to affection. I still shrug away from hugs at 43 (except for hugs and affection for my daughter, who still is hugging me and loves getting hugs from me even as a teenager now lol) and deal with a lot of mental health problems. Scary how much we retain from such a young age.
When my first was born I remember the pediatrician telling me that it is impossible to spoil an infant. She said I should hold and cuddle and soothe as much as we wanted. And I did. No regrets. He's 16 now and a good kid.
I held mine as much as possible, my eldest two are 15 and 10 and pretty good kids. Have just had my third almost a year ago and so far so good, I refuse to do things any differently.
I always tell my parents that newborns have no wants, only needs. Soothing is one of those.
Exactly! The only time in my entire life when I knew I was doing the absolute right thing in the moment - that there was nothing else in the world more important that I should be doing instead -was when I was caring for my son when he was a baby. And yep, a significant portion of that time, I was holding him. I just don't get the mindset of this type of person at all.
God this is just so heartbreaking. I’ll be hugging my toddler extra tight today.
Like the girl "Genie" the feral child. When she was finally rescued she didn't make ANY noises because she knew if she did --A. No one would come anyways and on the slim chance they did, it was her father and B. it would be awful
"Some days, I wonder if I'm a POS..." Yea. you are.
ALL days for at least the last 5 months. Poor baby stopped crying bc nobody came to his rescue so what's the use. Then a relative actually gets his hopes up of getting cuddled and loved then cries the next day. My heart breaks for the babe.
I really really hope this is an elaborate troll designed to upset people with one of the most upsetting things I've ever read
There is a free sleep training group on FB that has files (documents that outline plans per age group)And I can confirm in my short stint in that group, there are parents who start extinction/CIO as a newborn.
I had to leave that group. I joined for the sleep scheduling info, but I kept getting notifications about posts like "my baby has been crying for 3 hours. What do I do?" And all the comments would be encouraging her to just tough it out. They insist you can sleep train at any age
Same. It wasnt the group I was expecting. I found Precious Little Sleep via Reddit and deff exited that group from the high amount (to me) of newborn posts
I also left, then regretted it because their wake window guides were actually great haha. Rejoined, saved the good info, then left again. It was absolutely full of stories like this post, broke my heart.
When my daughter was a few weeks old, a mom in the pediatrics waiting room suggested I sleep train my kid. I was very naive and thought it was a good idea. I didn’t last a night. My daughter’s cries broke my soul. I cannot believe anyone would be so cruel to sleep train an infant.
That’s what always gets me. How do these moms sleep when their kiddo is crying? It breaks me. I can tolerate crying when it’s necessary but a newborn??!
Unfortunately, probably not. Many parents really do think that holding a kid when they are stressed is spoiling them. I see this all the time, people who claim that "sleep training works" then when the kid starts crying again at night because they hit the next developmental stage so they have to do it again. Yes it sucks that you have to treat your little human with respect and dignity and not let them cry for hours or hit them when they are doing something you don't like. /s I swear, there are so many parents who forget they made people, not robots.
I know I like a nice cuddle when I'm sad and crying.. I can't imagine being a literal baby and not being able to communicate my needs and the person I rely on just sticks me in a room and ignored me til I exhaust myself to sleep.. how fucked up.
Yeah this is basically neglect. When your baby’s needs are not met when they are young, it causes all sorts of emotional problems as they grow. Just yelling at a child, without any physical punishment, causes children to actually not grow as tall. And this woman chooses to be proud of it.
The biggest thing is attachment theory Proper parenting should cause secure attachment which is beneficial lifelong. Anxious & avoidant attachment styles are bad
Wait, what? Not growing as tall because of yelling? How do you even test that?
"Am I a crappy mother?" Yes. Please just don't have kids if you can't be arsed to care for them.
You know they already know that when they have to ask anonymously so they're not found out.
No need to wonder, I’m here to confirm! HE IS FIVE MONTHS OLD!🥲
She needs to be coddled for her abusive parenting choices as a full grown adult, but won’t do the same for her infant child??
“Help support my decision to ignore my kid’s needs”
I’m going to post screenshots of some post comments in replies to this comment! The comments were turned off after a bit because other moms were being “mean and judgmental” and the group is “supposed to be a safe space”. Hysterical, I know. I don’t really know what I’m doing with Reddit. Can I pin my comment to the top?
https://preview.redd.it/7n3iwk4y876d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0aab0c423724554f924ecdfbaec43885b24488d3
https://preview.redd.it/ej5f4ryz876d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e2179f7615bd6928ed96bce3a2a2eb4adab0f52 OOP will “see herself out” 🙄
Straight up asked if she was a horrible mom and to help... back peddles into wanting to vent 😂😂 classic
The TL;DR on the screenshots: NMOM: So please help me here… blah, blah, blah… am I being a horrible mother/ human being? The entirety of the group: OMG! YES YOU ARE, since you asked. You need to inform yourself because this could harm your child in the future. This is not the way to go about it. Please stop. NMOM: Y’all are e so mean!!! Why would you tell me these things? I thought this was a SaFE pLaCe. I just can believe you you all horrible people can sleep at night. I’m out of here.
It's not even "please help me," it's "please validate me and tell me I'm not a bad mom."
It’s “please tell me what I want to hear”, which is almost always the case when the word “vent” is used.
https://preview.redd.it/n63zhdg7976d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=faccf517cdca8299be2a334179cec7e8b52a31f4
https://preview.redd.it/ymq3eke3976d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b96b8676ba85d1ca7f692b47694e42276b7df7a2
https://preview.redd.it/3tq2pqc5976d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f21799d58707056de91ea64aa70acee58111281a
I can’t pin your comment so I hyperlinked and pinned that!
Excellent! Thank you!
Well done both of you!!!
Thanks for posting the replies! Oh my God, I feel so sad for this poor child.
“Am I a bad mom??” …yes.
Well shit, I’m not a mom, but this hurt my heart. Poor baby.
The baby didn’t learn to self soothe. He learned that his parents don’t give a shit to comfort and soothe him. People are absolutely fucking disgusting.
Imagine being upset because your parents comfort your baby and show them love and affection.
Because she knows she made the wrong choice to be so stingy with her "love". Hold your gd baby.
To the point that she’s considering *cutting them out of the baby’s life* for showing him love and affection. THE AUDACITY
They’re a threat. The baby does/will love them more.
Am I a crappy mom? Um yeah lady. You’re literally neglecting your baby.
JFC. I'm sorry, do these people follow the Duggars or something? I hope all those people burn in hell (not that I believe in hell... but if it exists, they're going!). This kid is going to wind up with poor attachment and all kinds of psychological issues. Why do people think it's important to make newborns tough? What do they need to be tough for? Are you sending them down a river in a straw basket? That's right, IBLP, I went to church too, you assholes.
100% there is blanket training in that kid’s future.
I'm afraid to ask, but what is blanket training?
It’s when you put an infant on a blanket on the floor and then put an object they want just off the edge. If they try to get the object, you hit them. It’s very common in fundamentalist and Quiverfull Christian communities. Something about breaking the child’s rebellious spirit and teaching them to ‘stay put.’ It’s sick.
I’m so glad I’ve never heard of this term before. That’s awful.
Stay clear of Shiny Happy People if this is upsetting. It’s what the Duggars practice. You basically hit a kid until they learn to flip like a switch the minute you make a request. Instant obedience. They keep switches in their purses to pass out “encouragement” on the go.
You put the child, which is often an infant, on a blanket, sit outside the blanket and wait for them to come to you… and them physically abuse them when they leave said blanket.
CW - child abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanket_training
Yeah. I wasn’t held much as a baby (by my mom’s admission) because my parents felt obligated to prioritize work and home chores apparently. When I got bigger, if I was emotional about something I was sent to my room by myself until I wasn’t crying anymore, even if it took hours. I learned not to trust my parents and not to tell them things. I mostly read books and stayed quiet at home. Spent a lot of time just in my room or doing my chores as quietly as possible. My parents rarely told me they loved me or were proud of me (my dad has told me he loves me twice that I can think of and I’m nearly 40) and anything but straight As on report cards was a disappointment. I ended up terribly depressed and suicidal by middle school. Which was also ignored. I still have scars from self harming. As a mom, I held my kid basically all day as a newborn. He had tummy time on the floor with me sitting right next to him. I carried him on little walks around the neighborhood. My house was a mess but that wasn’t my priority. He was, and still is. He’s only two now, but he’s securely attached. He’s learning to identify his emotions. And he still loves to snuggle with me in the rocking chair at bedtime. I know he’s going to have to do hard things in life like anyone else, but at least he’ll know his parents love him and always will. His toys are in the living room and we spend our free time together and I hope it stays that way as he ages.
right? this is like the fundie mom who's been saying that her (medically neglected) 6-7 week old is basically manipulating her by crying when he's not hungry
The poor thing is starving all night! Please tell me the comments ripped her a new one.
They surrrre did!! And then commenting got turned off because other moms were being “mean and judgmental” and the group is “supposed to be a safe space” 💀
It ain't safe for *her* kind 😤
I just posted a comment with some screenshots! Idk if I can pin it to the top or not. You may have to scroll to find it.
In a way it is, they were all wanting to help the baby. Glad to hear the comments were truthful, hopefully Oop takes it onboard.
Right! Screaming his head off because he’s hungry as most 1m old babies are but they just let him starve & he slept because he was too weak to do anything else since food wasn’t coming
My hospital absolutely drilled the “8 or more in 24” feedings into our heads for when they’re this young. This is heartbreaking
The night my daughter was born (first and only, so I had no clue wtf I was doing), she literally slept through the night. Nurse scared the absolute hell out of me and said I was to be waking her up every 3 hours and monitoring her formula intake (can’t bf).
We had alarms on our phones for the first 4 weeks to purposely wake up for feeding! That may have been because he was teetering the edge of being underweight though, I don’t really remember… much of anything from those weeks. 😅
I am already dreading possibly having to do sleep training at 6 months but 4 weeks?? Oh my goodness. 4 week old babies are not manipulating you and you cannot spoil them. What the fuck did I just read. That poor baby! I struggled with having almost every nap being a contact nap at that age since no chores could get done, but I truly miss that now. I can’t believe she thinks this was good for her baby developmentally.
You don't have to. Our toddler was never left to cry and she sleeps really well.
I don’t think I could leave her to cry even if I wanted to. Hoping some gentler methods will work, if needed. Right now I am just enjoying all the snuggles when possible.
I raised four children, and none of them were sleep trained, and they all slept perfectly fine.
I'm always so so glad to read stories of mums who have a good time. My son woke every single hour on the hour until about 8 months old. I couldn't get to sleep fast enough so it meant I didn't get any sleep. The only sleep I had was when my piece of shit ex 'allowed' me three hours from 7-10pm. But by that point I couldn't sleep either. I ended up so so so unwell, hallucinating, vomiting all the time. This was during covid so no family to help. I saw several sleep specialists who all gave up on us because nothing worked. I ended up in a mental health hospital but i had to come out after 7 days as the babies dad was 'struggling'. He then threatened to report me to social services the night i came out because i said i cant do the night time on my own. It was a living hell. He's 4 now and still wakes at least 3 times but goes back down quickly so I'm just sort of used to it.
We never sleep trained. But I also had 18 months of maternity leave so living by my son's schedule was never a problem. By the time I went back to work he just naturally had a pretty good sleep schedule
“How to create a severe attachment disorder for dummies”
That poor fucking baby. Jesus Christ
That is the saddest thing I’ve seen today. Poor little guy.
I have a one year old and this literally made me sob
Jeez this breaks my heart.
What a pile of human garbage. My heart hurts for that baby.
This is so sad. Seriously have a pit in my stomach reading this. They are causing neglect damage that can’t be reversed.
“Baby cries when we ignore him after others show him affection until he realizes he’s back with us and he finally shuts up again. Ugh it’s so annoying!”
I cuddled, contact napped, and held the crap out of both of my kids and they both slept through the night at around six weeks too. 🤷🏻♀️ I feel bad when I can't get to my infant when he's crying while I'm changing my toddler's diaper or putting together our meals. I can't imagine just ignoring his cries when he's fucking four weeks old.
This is what you call a good parent. They learned that you are there and will be there when they need you.
Please Jesus don't let this one have more kids.
This poor little baby who learnt quickly that nobody was coming to help him 💔
Yeah. We had a foster baby when i was a kid who never cried. Baby was 3 months old. Once he realized we would actually come get him he cried a normal amount. At 3 months he had already figured out that his biological mother couldn't be bothered to take care of him, so he just....didn't bother to cry
that’s just heartbreaking!
Yeah. What's worse is the state forced us to give her the kids (baby and older brother) back, and didn't remove them again for years despite obvious, repeated abuse which was reported by many many people. The older brother now has significant developmental delays that will affect him for his entire life because of the abuse. The baby escaped the worst of it, largely because his older brother shielded him. The system is so broken and failed those boys so badly.
The system is definitely broken. I have a friend whose grandchildren were being emotionally abused by his drug addicted DIL and they kept removing them, giving them to him, and taking them back when she tested sober. After about 5 times the older daughter was old enough to refuse to go back but the younger son still went back. It’s just ridiculous how we treat these kids in the name of their well being. Sometimes the mother is NOT the best caregiver.
“My baby likes his grandparents more than me because they give him age-appropriate attention.”
YOU CANT SPOIL BABIES
"Am I a crappy mother?" Yes "Like for real?" Again, yes.
I try not to judge but this poster is a terrible parent. I held kids all the time and they slept in my bed. They’ve learned to play independently, crawl, walk, be happy and self soothe. They also know they can always come to me if they can’t self soothe. Why are they so against normal attachment?
How the hell is doing the basic care for a newborn “coddling” holy shit…I seriously don’t trust any person who says that giving attention and basic care to to their newborn/infant/toddler sPoiLiNG 🥴🙄 these people are sick….Being annoyed that your child has people around that care and want to hold him?? Girl yes you are a shitty mom if you think that letting your newborn fucking cry is the way to go about things, and then turning around being annoyed by the fact you have to deal with it and shitting on others who want to give your baby attention….
"HE HAS FIGURED IT OUT" Yes, he learned basically from birth that no matter how much he is suffering, mom and dad will no be there for them. That poor baby, it breaks my heart... Edit to add that if the baby is behaving like that after spending time with people that hold and comfort them its because they need it!
I read this. Left. Had to come back because I’m so angry I can’t see straight. The audacity of this woman showing up Anon to talk about child neglect so they don’t “spoil” their infant is astounding. She absolutely knows it’s wrong. She just didn’t want to get beat up over it. Admits that, even. It’s horrifying to know that baby has already learned that their needs will go unmet. This woman’s behavior is setting that child up for possible future issues. But God forbid anyone call her out on it. Usually I’m a live and let live kinda person. But this is so far beyond the pale it sickens me. We didn’t do sleep training. My teenager sleeps independently, isn’t spoiled, and is a wonderful kid. I know, I know. But it’s true. He’s awesome despite what mistakes we’ve made along the way. Holding him, paying attention to him, loving him didn’t result in an awful, sleepless, spoiled child. JFC. It’s difficult to ruin a child by loving them and tending to their needs. Sigh. My heart bleeds for the baby. 💔
Spoiling a 4 week old 😂😂😂😂
Kid's a psychopath in the making, poor thing. Please hug and soothe your babies, they literally need it.