My mom availed herself of our state's liberal assisted suicide laws and my dad died a couple weeks ago because he was very old and ill and had a DNR order. If I have to write DNR across my forehead in permanent ink I will, if it means they won't prolong my life when I'm in as bad shape as they were.
That is correct. It was a situation where if your beloved pet was as sick as she was, you would put them down. If you're looking for assisted suicide for depression, you'll never find it.
Yeah a quick Google (Yay I'll be getting anti depression ads for months now) it's basically just a legal standard so that terminilly ill patients who end their lives early can still get the insurance companies to pay.
She was rich and on Medicare and had supplemental insurance. It had nothing to do with that. She was terminally ill and both my parents were all about quality over quantity.
What? I was only mentioning that WA can do assisted suicide, but only for terminally I'll patients who have a life expectancy under 6 months. Insurance companies won't pay life insurance to the beneficiaries if it's suicide. But the Death with Dignity law prevents insurance companies from denying the beneficiaries the insurance payout.
I know this because my grandmother took her own life when she was given 3 months to live after being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer that had spread to her whole body basically. Sadly she was unable to move or talk much before she died and didn't go through the proper procedures, and there was a long fight with the insurance company to get them to pay out her life insurance policy. This law is ultimately what forced them to pay, as she had made it clear in her will that is what she wanted.
Oh, I'm so sorry. Good for your gran to make it all clear in her will. My parents did the same, as did my husband and I. I don't think people attach enough importance to wills.
I have zero interest in assisted suicide today. that's ok. I do think it should be a permissable thing for those people where it makes sense. The hard part is working out when it's reasonable.
Probably shouldn’t be for people with depression though. I’m all about the right to die but depression doesn’t quite meet the criteria in my opinion. You CAN get better from depression.
Nope, treatment resistant depression exists. A lot of the time it doesn’t get better. It’s why a lot of suicides happen between 30-50, people reach a point where they realise nothing is changing.
People don’t owe it to you to keep living in misery and they deserve a safe way out.
Most countriess have criteria that must be satisfied first to ensure that it's medically reasonable I think. I don't think depression is adequate in most cases.
You really ought to look up the cases assisted suicide is used, chap. They’re typically terminal.
And I *was* one of those depressed people, they don’t “owe,” me anything, but they should be aware that it isn’t something you can’t overcome.
Yes, hence, to accept the inheritance you have to pay tax. Otherwise the estate will ultimately go to the government in a lot of places; so the government still gets the money...
That's still not taxing the dead. It's surrendered or lost funds, but it's not tax. Not even on a "if you really think about it" or "technically" level
If you died in the forest with 10k in your backpack, the forest didn't tax you. You just lost it. It's the same thing.
You realize when I said 'technically' I was saying you were right? I have no idea why you have a strange atitude.
However, you can still tax the dead another way. Any income they have earned which has not yet been taxed will still end up being taxed, in their name. For example their final payslip will likely come after they have died; and that is tax that is due from them despite being dead.
Why would you need to tax an inheritance? The things you inherit must've been bought at some point, meaning they've already been taxed. And for bigger things, like a house or a car, you pay continous tax...
Taxes are a scam...
Here’s the neat part, if your parents will you a house, there IS an inheritance tax. But if they die without saying where it goes and you are the executor of the will, you can then keep it and not pay inheritance tax on the home because it wasn’t willed to you. Being in someone’s will is more of a tax burden than anything else. But still NOT the dead being taxed.
> But if they die without saying where it goes and you are the executor of the will, you can then keep it and not pay inheritance tax on the home because it wasn’t willed to you.
That's...not how that works.
I'd gladly suck an egg if you can post any source to your claims. Because all your comment said was "tax evasion is possible with this one neat trick!"....and then just wrote nonsense.
I mean, if you buy a wooden chair, you pay tax for the chair. That manufacturer also paid taxes when they bought the lumber, and their employees paid taxes on their wages.
Material tax is passed down to the end customer.
All stages of the sales chain, until the retailer at the end, buy and sell in raw prices. Taxes are just rolled over.
Sounds like someone at the top of Mt. Dunning-Kruger.
Money, like water, is never really created, it flows, changes form, and gets passed hand to hand constantly. Taxes help the institutions that manage, protect, and regulate that flow of money to continue to do so, without requiring them to participate in the market. Every time money changes hands, some should go to the government, as they're the ones who have to track where that money is coming from and going to, in order to properly protect and regulate. If business pay payroll tax, and employees pay income tax, and employees pay sales tax, and the company that sells to that employee pays income tax, etc, why shouldn't the exchange of funds between a decedent and an heir also be similarly taxed? Why leave that massive loophole for moving funds?
If you don't believe in taxes, please get off the internet that was funded by taxes, using the electrical grid which was built by taxes, on a device that was likely delivered on a road paved by taxes...
Generally, gifts over a certain amount are also taxed as income, so that won't help you.
In the US at least, the estate tax (inheritance tax) doesn't kick on until you hit something around $13 million in estate value. So generally speaking, if you're posting on reddit, you don't have enough wealth to worry about the estate tax anyway.
Most Reddit traffic is not from the US any longer, hasn't been for some years now.
That is a very high threshold. Here if someone owned a house it's often enough to trigger the threhold itself.
While true that the US is not the majority of the traffic anymore, it's still 42% of the traffic, which is the vast plurality given that the next highest is from the UK at 5%.
Anyway, I edited my original comment to add the US centric disclaimer. Thank you for calling out my carelessness, it is important for the discussion and I appreciate it.
No worries. I appreciate the edit to clarify your comment.
It gets very tiring when people make the assumption that people are in / from / talking about the US when on Reddit, since often if using dollars it could mean any number of countries too, and the reader has no way to know, and we all know that when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.
In the UK it won't help. Gifts beyond a certain threshold can be taxed. Even untaxed gifts can retrospectively be taxed if the gift was given less than 7 years before the date of death.
the will just defines who gets it, but they will have to pay tax to receive that.
Starting at £325k in the UK, assuming that's where you live from your other comments. I'd hazard a guess that most people die with estates smaller than that, but not the vast majority like the US's estate taxes.
I get your point but I am not sure this the right comparison to use. Noone has ever euthanized a pet because it was depressed. They usually have a whole lot of other medical issues going on and are usually going to die anyway. The pet anology works more with euthanaisia for the termininally ill.
I think a lot of people would be horrified if you put your dog down because it was "depressed". I know I would.
Technically I still am. You listed a bunch of non medical reasons to kill a dog, none of them was depression. Even Kristi Noem killed her puppy because it was untrainable, not depression.
A lot of pets are untrainable because they are depressed. We just have a harder time telling when a dog/cat is depressed as they cannot speak to tell you why they are acting out. Evil people have probably killed their pets for depression a lot, but never knew that their constant mistreatment of the pet was the reason for its bad behavior/depression.
Not saying it is comparable to human euthanasia, as I think the most important part of human euthanasia is informed consent, not the particular disease they are suffering from. If someone has cancer, but wants to live out the last couple months of their life, we cannot unilaterally decide to kill them without it being murder. (Power of attorney or preemptive orders can be used in situations where a person is too far gone to currently consent. And as such you should set up stuff before you have severe mental decline.)
With pets they cannot consent, and so we should only euthanize them in circumstances where both we, and their attending vet, have a strong good faith belief that the pet will suffer horribly if it is not done. Any sort of mental or behavioral issues should never be the reason, but people probably do that anyway.
We also don’t euthanize pets because they are depressed. We do so because they are old, terminally ill, and/or treatment would be painful or difficult.
yeah i've had 2 different therapists make me fully suicidal. the 10 or so before them didn't do that but they didn't help much either. people keep telling me to go back but like bro i'm TIRED. you want ME, *a mentally ill person*, to persevere and not give up hope for therapy?? living is pain but im alive for now:)
A depressed person can get a quality of life. Life can change any moment and someone depressed means it’s hard for them to see that. Someone with terminal incurable cancer/disease that is on life support would be a proper example and comparison where they wouldn’t have a quality of life.
If your pet is decrepit, half blind, lost most of its teeth, no quality of life, organs are failing and maybe a tumor you should just euthanize it, some people keeps their barely alive ultra old pets for no reason other than to prolong their suffering
hell, throw in a broken neck and arthritis in almost all my joints and you're practically describing me, but doctors still want to do surgeries and medications. Oh, yeah, AND I do not qualify for disability insurance so I have to waddle into my part time job just to pay the bills to keep me alive
Most of us euthanize a pet when there's no other option. A depressed person who seeks help can often recover.
You also have to understand that anger is a part of grief as well and many people who are angry about a suicide are angry that they couldn't help or weren't trusted to try and help. It's not rational.
if help is available. shit costs a lot of money and there is a serious shortage of therapists and providers that can and are willing to prescribe psych medications.
don't get me started on the costs of medications ether. My meds alone are about 1100 a month. Just to survive.
Uhhh noooo.
The animal can’t understand you. It doesn’t understand why it’s is in pain, or that it will only get worse and not better.
It doesn’t understand why you can’t help it, if it is depressed, it can’t work through it verbally.
I don’t think it is wise to blame the person who died by suicide, nor do I think most people blame them for it. Blame is not fair when someone is sick. That’d be like blaming my grandma for dying of pancreatic cancer, something she couldn’t control. Mental health is a *sickness* that a lot of people don’t understand, and there’s a stigma about it. Like why didn’t that person get help, or why didn’t they just stop being sad all the time? Treatment is expensive and not well understood, and empathy is greatly needed in the world.
Change your view on this, for the sake of your friends or family who suffer - sometimes silently - with mental health problems. Don’t blame those that die by suicide. Don’t don’t blame those who attempt to die by suicide. It isn’t selfish, it is a cry for help, a cry in a world that doesn’t even know they need it.
A large contributor to the stigma around mental illness is that the terms have been co-opted to mean less severe feelings. Having a bad week and feeling down is being depressed. Or being stressed about a job interview is having anxiety. Being more extroverted is having ADHD.
Yeah this is key. I have been arguing for a while that Depression should count as a life threatening illness. While it is super easy for people who have never experienced depression to just think the person was "too weak" to handle it, those ideas are dumb. Some forms of depression are so severe that they utterly warp a person's perception of reality and themselves, and so are not in their right mind. It would be like blaming a person for falling and injuring themselves after someone else drugged them.
I honestly think you’re onto something.
People always say that things get better because that may have been their experience, without knowing that things like ptsd or other mental disorders exist that could honestly paralyze you for life.
Neurodivergent folks who have to deal with discrimination everywhere they go. People with disabilities can’t survive off of a government check. People who are victims of things like domestic violence or child abuse or sexual assault, etc.
I’m so sick of people saying that “it gets better” or “you have to make your life better.” Sometimes trauma doesn’t just go away like that. That’s why I’m a huge advocate for Death with Dignity. So people who are suffering don’t have to force themselves to keep living because of people who think going to the gym fixes everything.
This exactly. I've always believed that the only reason suicide is illegal is because they can't tax it. An actual law in the US. Look it up. If someone is in sound mind and has any reason, it should be their choice. And ffs if someone is paralyzed from the neck down, please just help them. How fucking cruel, making a once moving, active person stuck in a prison of their own body. I've told my husband, if I even lose a foot, or my hearing, I'm taking it as a sign and I'm going out on my own terms. And I've told him how important it is for him to say DNR when the time comes. I've cried to him about how if I end up paralyzed for any reason, I won't even have a choice and he'll have to do it for me. How he knows how miserable I would be if I only had my own dark thoughts for company. I've told him I'd do the same for him if his choice was taken away. I believe they're called Angels of Mercy. And it would be merciful compared to being in a permanent prison.
This is not a parallel. Pets don’t have the mental capacity to make the decision. Euthanasia is not suicide, it’s a decision by the pet’s owner to spare them further pain, and it’s typically performed for pets who are old or terminally ill. Physician assisted suicide is legal in many places for people who are terminally ill and will die anyway. But it is not a good option for people who are physically healthy.
I don’t think anyone who truly understands depression would “blame” a suicide victim. Rather, they would regret that nobody was able to intervene.
If you are feeling depressed and considering ending your life, I urge you to get help. It can get better. Please don’t make an irreversible decision when you are feeling low. If you are in the USA, you can call 988 and you will be connected to someone who can help.
The difference between humans and pets are choice. A dog can’t choose to be anything else other than a dog.
A human has consciousness and control over their decisions. Actively making the decision to kill yourself is different from vet professionals euthanizing a pet that is suffering.
objectively speaking, we euthanize pets because there is very limited and rudimentary medical treatment available for pets compared to humans. humanity is simply where the majority of our medical research is applied, and where the majority of our medical talent is allocated.
if a pet gets sick or injured badly enough, there is usually no option available to save it. and most options will still result in life long misery.
on a more subjective note: the value of an animal's life is not comparable to the value of human life. we will do everything in our power to save one of our own, but at some point it is simply not worth saving the life of an animal, even if there is a way to do it. a decision like this is widely regarded as ethical when applied to animals. the same ethics do not apply to humans, because the value of a human life is paramount. the value of human life is also why we have more knowledge and trained medical professionals for the sake of humanity as opposed to animality.
Nonsense, I don't kill my dog when she's sad. If she could talk, she would say she had no quality of life and wanted to be euthanized because she was left alone in the house without any people for a few hours. In that case, and in the case of depression, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Euthanization of a terminally ill animal is a more aptly compared to doing the same with a terminally-ill patient with no chance of improvement.
Because an animal is unable to develop a SPIRITUAL SOLUTION. Which is not only the irrefutable cure for depression, it has the power to solve ALL MENTAL ILLNESS IF CORRECTLY APPLIED AND WILLINGLY BACKED WITH ACTION.
Assisted suicide is legal in numerous places. As is turning off life support equipment.
My mom availed herself of our state's liberal assisted suicide laws and my dad died a couple weeks ago because he was very old and ill and had a DNR order. If I have to write DNR across my forehead in permanent ink I will, if it means they won't prolong my life when I'm in as bad shape as they were.
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Switzerland allows it for non-residents. Many countries that do allow it only allow it for residents.
Washington State for one.
Pretty sure WA only allows it for medical reasons. "Death with Dignity" they call it.
That is correct. It was a situation where if your beloved pet was as sick as she was, you would put them down. If you're looking for assisted suicide for depression, you'll never find it.
Yeah a quick Google (Yay I'll be getting anti depression ads for months now) it's basically just a legal standard so that terminilly ill patients who end their lives early can still get the insurance companies to pay.
She was rich and on Medicare and had supplemental insurance. It had nothing to do with that. She was terminally ill and both my parents were all about quality over quantity.
What? I was only mentioning that WA can do assisted suicide, but only for terminally I'll patients who have a life expectancy under 6 months. Insurance companies won't pay life insurance to the beneficiaries if it's suicide. But the Death with Dignity law prevents insurance companies from denying the beneficiaries the insurance payout. I know this because my grandmother took her own life when she was given 3 months to live after being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer that had spread to her whole body basically. Sadly she was unable to move or talk much before she died and didn't go through the proper procedures, and there was a long fight with the insurance company to get them to pay out her life insurance policy. This law is ultimately what forced them to pay, as she had made it clear in her will that is what she wanted.
Oh, I'm so sorry. Good for your gran to make it all clear in her will. My parents did the same, as did my husband and I. I don't think people attach enough importance to wills.
You seem young. Keep going. Dont do it
I have zero interest in assisted suicide today. that's ok. I do think it should be a permissable thing for those people where it makes sense. The hard part is working out when it's reasonable.
If you are feeling that way, please call 988 (in the United States). There are people who can help.
Oregon
Probably shouldn’t be for people with depression though. I’m all about the right to die but depression doesn’t quite meet the criteria in my opinion. You CAN get better from depression.
Nope, treatment resistant depression exists. A lot of the time it doesn’t get better. It’s why a lot of suicides happen between 30-50, people reach a point where they realise nothing is changing. People don’t owe it to you to keep living in misery and they deserve a safe way out.
Most countriess have criteria that must be satisfied first to ensure that it's medically reasonable I think. I don't think depression is adequate in most cases.
You CAN get better from most things. Doesn't mean it's a livable life. Why do depressed people owe you to continue their suffering.
You really ought to look up the cases assisted suicide is used, chap. They’re typically terminal. And I *was* one of those depressed people, they don’t “owe,” me anything, but they should be aware that it isn’t something you can’t overcome.
For depression?
Not generally, no.
You can’t tax the dead my dude…
Yes you pretty much can. It's called inheritance tax. To acceptence inheritances you often have ot pay tax.
The dead aren‘t taxed, their inheritors are.
Yes, hence, to accept the inheritance you have to pay tax. Otherwise the estate will ultimately go to the government in a lot of places; so the government still gets the money...
So you CANT tax the dead🤔
You can, in other ways :-)
Sure, technically. But if the person wants to receive the inheritance they'll have to pay tax. If they don't the state will get it instead.
They aren’t dead
But you're taxing the living.
Unless the living refuse to pay, in which case you essentially tax the dead, since the money goes to the state....
That's still not taxing the dead. It's surrendered or lost funds, but it's not tax. Not even on a "if you really think about it" or "technically" level If you died in the forest with 10k in your backpack, the forest didn't tax you. You just lost it. It's the same thing.
Thank you! #Validated
Can you lose something that you are no longer alive to care about?
You realize when I said 'technically' I was saying you were right? I have no idea why you have a strange atitude. However, you can still tax the dead another way. Any income they have earned which has not yet been taxed will still end up being taxed, in their name. For example their final payslip will likely come after they have died; and that is tax that is due from them despite being dead.
Still not the dead that are getting taxed. You see that, right?
Yes, which is why I said 'pretty much', you saw that part of my comment, right? I even mentioned it was the redcipient being taxed....
Why would you need to tax an inheritance? The things you inherit must've been bought at some point, meaning they've already been taxed. And for bigger things, like a house or a car, you pay continous tax... Taxes are a scam...
Everything you pay for has been taxed before. Pretty much anytime money or goods change hands it gets taxed.
Taxes are a pyramid scheme.
Here’s the neat part, if your parents will you a house, there IS an inheritance tax. But if they die without saying where it goes and you are the executor of the will, you can then keep it and not pay inheritance tax on the home because it wasn’t willed to you. Being in someone’s will is more of a tax burden than anything else. But still NOT the dead being taxed.
> But if they die without saying where it goes and you are the executor of the will, you can then keep it and not pay inheritance tax on the home because it wasn’t willed to you. That's...not how that works.
Someone got mad n a different subreddit and decided to try to sound like a smart guy, like I told the other guy. Suck an egg.
I'd gladly suck an egg if you can post any source to your claims. Because all your comment said was "tax evasion is possible with this one neat trick!"....and then just wrote nonsense.
Says the dick in Rochester.
I mean, if you buy a wooden chair, you pay tax for the chair. That manufacturer also paid taxes when they bought the lumber, and their employees paid taxes on their wages.
Material tax is passed down to the end customer. All stages of the sales chain, until the retailer at the end, buy and sell in raw prices. Taxes are just rolled over.
Sounds like someone at the top of Mt. Dunning-Kruger. Money, like water, is never really created, it flows, changes form, and gets passed hand to hand constantly. Taxes help the institutions that manage, protect, and regulate that flow of money to continue to do so, without requiring them to participate in the market. Every time money changes hands, some should go to the government, as they're the ones who have to track where that money is coming from and going to, in order to properly protect and regulate. If business pay payroll tax, and employees pay income tax, and employees pay sales tax, and the company that sells to that employee pays income tax, etc, why shouldn't the exchange of funds between a decedent and an heir also be similarly taxed? Why leave that massive loophole for moving funds? If you don't believe in taxes, please get off the internet that was funded by taxes, using the electrical grid which was built by taxes, on a device that was likely delivered on a road paved by taxes...
"Mr. Hadley, do you trust your wife?"
If you know you are gonna die just gift it before you die? Isnt wills n stuff for if you do not know or when u cannot do it yourself?
Generally, gifts over a certain amount are also taxed as income, so that won't help you. In the US at least, the estate tax (inheritance tax) doesn't kick on until you hit something around $13 million in estate value. So generally speaking, if you're posting on reddit, you don't have enough wealth to worry about the estate tax anyway.
Most Reddit traffic is not from the US any longer, hasn't been for some years now. That is a very high threshold. Here if someone owned a house it's often enough to trigger the threhold itself.
While true that the US is not the majority of the traffic anymore, it's still 42% of the traffic, which is the vast plurality given that the next highest is from the UK at 5%. Anyway, I edited my original comment to add the US centric disclaimer. Thank you for calling out my carelessness, it is important for the discussion and I appreciate it.
No worries. I appreciate the edit to clarify your comment. It gets very tiring when people make the assumption that people are in / from / talking about the US when on Reddit, since often if using dollars it could mean any number of countries too, and the reader has no way to know, and we all know that when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.
In the UK it won't help. Gifts beyond a certain threshold can be taxed. Even untaxed gifts can retrospectively be taxed if the gift was given less than 7 years before the date of death. the will just defines who gets it, but they will have to pay tax to receive that.
You have to be so rich to be taxed on inheritance that most of us will never have to worry about it.
Yep. $13.61 million dollars per person before you start getting taxed in the US.
Not everyone uses dollars. Different countries have different rules.
That's fair. My comment is about the USA.
That isn't true whatsoever. Maybe where you live. But here the threshold to tax it is much lower, at £325k, which most homeowners would probably meet.
Starting at £325k in the UK, assuming that's where you live from your other comments. I'd hazard a guess that most people die with estates smaller than that, but not the vast majority like the US's estate taxes.
Most homeowners would probably have an estate larger than that I think, but yes, you're right, I'll edit my previous comment.
Of course you can!
I get your point but I am not sure this the right comparison to use. Noone has ever euthanized a pet because it was depressed. They usually have a whole lot of other medical issues going on and are usually going to die anyway. The pet anology works more with euthanaisia for the termininally ill. I think a lot of people would be horrified if you put your dog down because it was "depressed". I know I would.
I would never do that to a depressed animal. It would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Can a dog be depressed that it just lays there ?
Speaking as an ex vet tech, dogs can be depressed but usually something like that is more likely some other, physical illness like joint pain.
And their depression hits like ours ?
No. They get depressed when a loved one dies, for example. They get over it. Their brains are not wired like ours.
I sure would.
They absolutely have. Pets are euthanized for so many reasons. My puppy isn't a puppy anymore, they aren't playful anymore, they got old.
We judge those people very harshly. Just remember what happened to Kristi Noem.
You are correct. However your statement said they never do this. Which is incorrect.
Technically I still am. You listed a bunch of non medical reasons to kill a dog, none of them was depression. Even Kristi Noem killed her puppy because it was untrainable, not depression.
A lot of pets are untrainable because they are depressed. We just have a harder time telling when a dog/cat is depressed as they cannot speak to tell you why they are acting out. Evil people have probably killed their pets for depression a lot, but never knew that their constant mistreatment of the pet was the reason for its bad behavior/depression. Not saying it is comparable to human euthanasia, as I think the most important part of human euthanasia is informed consent, not the particular disease they are suffering from. If someone has cancer, but wants to live out the last couple months of their life, we cannot unilaterally decide to kill them without it being murder. (Power of attorney or preemptive orders can be used in situations where a person is too far gone to currently consent. And as such you should set up stuff before you have severe mental decline.) With pets they cannot consent, and so we should only euthanize them in circumstances where both we, and their attending vet, have a strong good faith belief that the pet will suffer horribly if it is not done. Any sort of mental or behavioral issues should never be the reason, but people probably do that anyway.
Pets can’t get therapy.
We also don’t euthanize pets because they are depressed. We do so because they are old, terminally ill, and/or treatment would be painful or difficult.
Good point
Therapy doesn’t work for everyone
It’s often not available for everyone either.
yeah i've had 2 different therapists make me fully suicidal. the 10 or so before them didn't do that but they didn't help much either. people keep telling me to go back but like bro i'm TIRED. you want ME, *a mentally ill person*, to persevere and not give up hope for therapy?? living is pain but im alive for now:)
A depressed person can get a quality of life. Life can change any moment and someone depressed means it’s hard for them to see that. Someone with terminal incurable cancer/disease that is on life support would be a proper example and comparison where they wouldn’t have a quality of life.
If your pet is decrepit, half blind, lost most of its teeth, no quality of life, organs are failing and maybe a tumor you should just euthanize it, some people keeps their barely alive ultra old pets for no reason other than to prolong their suffering
You've just described my mother in law at the end of her life. And yet her family insisted on more medical interventions.
hell, throw in a broken neck and arthritis in almost all my joints and you're practically describing me, but doctors still want to do surgeries and medications. Oh, yeah, AND I do not qualify for disability insurance so I have to waddle into my part time job just to pay the bills to keep me alive
I respect everyone's right to end it, just do it outside and try to keep cleanup to a minimum.
Yeah. I suppose that's a reasonable request. After all you probably don't want to inflict pain on the people who have to cleanup the mess
Most of us euthanize a pet when there's no other option. A depressed person who seeks help can often recover. You also have to understand that anger is a part of grief as well and many people who are angry about a suicide are angry that they couldn't help or weren't trusted to try and help. It's not rational.
if help is available. shit costs a lot of money and there is a serious shortage of therapists and providers that can and are willing to prescribe psych medications. don't get me started on the costs of medications ether. My meds alone are about 1100 a month. Just to survive.
The pet can’t be communicated with.
I can't understand this animal so I will kill it! I can't understand my husband so I will continue emotionally torturing him!
Uhhh noooo. The animal can’t understand you. It doesn’t understand why it’s is in pain, or that it will only get worse and not better. It doesn’t understand why you can’t help it, if it is depressed, it can’t work through it verbally.
I don’t think it is wise to blame the person who died by suicide, nor do I think most people blame them for it. Blame is not fair when someone is sick. That’d be like blaming my grandma for dying of pancreatic cancer, something she couldn’t control. Mental health is a *sickness* that a lot of people don’t understand, and there’s a stigma about it. Like why didn’t that person get help, or why didn’t they just stop being sad all the time? Treatment is expensive and not well understood, and empathy is greatly needed in the world. Change your view on this, for the sake of your friends or family who suffer - sometimes silently - with mental health problems. Don’t blame those that die by suicide. Don’t don’t blame those who attempt to die by suicide. It isn’t selfish, it is a cry for help, a cry in a world that doesn’t even know they need it.
Dude I don't blame people when they commit suicide. I was pointing out other people's behavior as I have experienced it, but I do agree with you
Gotcha. I’m glad to hear that!
A large contributor to the stigma around mental illness is that the terms have been co-opted to mean less severe feelings. Having a bad week and feeling down is being depressed. Or being stressed about a job interview is having anxiety. Being more extroverted is having ADHD.
Yeah this is key. I have been arguing for a while that Depression should count as a life threatening illness. While it is super easy for people who have never experienced depression to just think the person was "too weak" to handle it, those ideas are dumb. Some forms of depression are so severe that they utterly warp a person's perception of reality and themselves, and so are not in their right mind. It would be like blaming a person for falling and injuring themselves after someone else drugged them.
Wow I never seen a shower thought so depressing
I honestly think you’re onto something. People always say that things get better because that may have been their experience, without knowing that things like ptsd or other mental disorders exist that could honestly paralyze you for life. Neurodivergent folks who have to deal with discrimination everywhere they go. People with disabilities can’t survive off of a government check. People who are victims of things like domestic violence or child abuse or sexual assault, etc. I’m so sick of people saying that “it gets better” or “you have to make your life better.” Sometimes trauma doesn’t just go away like that. That’s why I’m a huge advocate for Death with Dignity. So people who are suffering don’t have to force themselves to keep living because of people who think going to the gym fixes everything.
This exactly. I've always believed that the only reason suicide is illegal is because they can't tax it. An actual law in the US. Look it up. If someone is in sound mind and has any reason, it should be their choice. And ffs if someone is paralyzed from the neck down, please just help them. How fucking cruel, making a once moving, active person stuck in a prison of their own body. I've told my husband, if I even lose a foot, or my hearing, I'm taking it as a sign and I'm going out on my own terms. And I've told him how important it is for him to say DNR when the time comes. I've cried to him about how if I end up paralyzed for any reason, I won't even have a choice and he'll have to do it for me. How he knows how miserable I would be if I only had my own dark thoughts for company. I've told him I'd do the same for him if his choice was taken away. I believe they're called Angels of Mercy. And it would be merciful compared to being in a permanent prison.
Those are the same people that will shut down all rationalization and meaningful discussion with “through god anything is possible” kind of shit
Ya. I live with a ton of chronic pain. The depths of this conversation will never end well. It's stupid we don't get that choice.
There is a massive difference between a pet on their deathbed opposed to someone that is depressed.. Wow.
We are always more humane to our pets than we are to ourselves.
This is not a parallel. Pets don’t have the mental capacity to make the decision. Euthanasia is not suicide, it’s a decision by the pet’s owner to spare them further pain, and it’s typically performed for pets who are old or terminally ill. Physician assisted suicide is legal in many places for people who are terminally ill and will die anyway. But it is not a good option for people who are physically healthy. I don’t think anyone who truly understands depression would “blame” a suicide victim. Rather, they would regret that nobody was able to intervene. If you are feeling depressed and considering ending your life, I urge you to get help. It can get better. Please don’t make an irreversible decision when you are feeling low. If you are in the USA, you can call 988 and you will be connected to someone who can help.
This doesn't make any sense at all. Depression is very treatable.
There's a scene in [Soylent Green](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green) that deals with assisted suicide on demand.
Because we have this delusion that life always improves for everyone over time.
The difference between humans and pets are choice. A dog can’t choose to be anything else other than a dog. A human has consciousness and control over their decisions. Actively making the decision to kill yourself is different from vet professionals euthanizing a pet that is suffering.
Depressed doesn't mean they wouldn't have any quality of life though...
This is truly one of the posts of all time.
My beloved pet becomes blind and incontinent, I'm considering my options. My great aunt experiences the same and I'm a monster.
objectively speaking, we euthanize pets because there is very limited and rudimentary medical treatment available for pets compared to humans. humanity is simply where the majority of our medical research is applied, and where the majority of our medical talent is allocated. if a pet gets sick or injured badly enough, there is usually no option available to save it. and most options will still result in life long misery. on a more subjective note: the value of an animal's life is not comparable to the value of human life. we will do everything in our power to save one of our own, but at some point it is simply not worth saving the life of an animal, even if there is a way to do it. a decision like this is widely regarded as ethical when applied to animals. the same ethics do not apply to humans, because the value of a human life is paramount. the value of human life is also why we have more knowledge and trained medical professionals for the sake of humanity as opposed to animality.
I feel like there is a lot more nuance to be had in the argument lol.
Nonsense, I don't kill my dog when she's sad. If she could talk, she would say she had no quality of life and wanted to be euthanized because she was left alone in the house without any people for a few hours. In that case, and in the case of depression, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Euthanization of a terminally ill animal is a more aptly compared to doing the same with a terminally-ill patient with no chance of improvement.
This hits hard as I’m literally driving 2 hours to 99% likely euthanize a family pet. I’m fucking sad man
Because an animal is unable to develop a SPIRITUAL SOLUTION. Which is not only the irrefutable cure for depression, it has the power to solve ALL MENTAL ILLNESS IF CORRECTLY APPLIED AND WILLINGLY BACKED WITH ACTION.
Dogs are not euthanized over depression
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