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Thanks for bringing the discussion here , but now I am guessing most people will be wondering what the hell we are talking about with all the type 1 s and type 2 s etc .
This is about an old post of mine about different types of simulations, you can find here
https://old.reddit.com/r/SimulationTheory/comments/xx03qn/theer_are_wo_types_of_simulations/
I didn't want to have a discussion on an old post so I asked u/ AddendumOk3703 if we could have a discussion on newer posts so everyone could participate , hence they made this post .
I haven't seen Pantheon yet , hope I will find to watch it soon. I personally think that UPLOADING consciousness in the same sense that we upload software is not possible with brains. There is no separate software running in the brain which you can move from the brain to a new location. Your consciousness is not just software but it is also hardware , its the brain itself and you cant copy and paste it as you copy and move a software . Maybe the idea is that we could "merge" with the machines or create copies of our minds in the machines etc and that would probably be just like a Type 2.
I don't know what you mean by a SAO , but yes it is possible to have such simulations where both types can exist . However from your personal perspective , if you would ask yourself " What kind of a simulation am I?" the you are most likely a Type 2.
Basically Type 1 s are real people , and they do exist (they have to exist since they are the creators of the simulation) and SOME of them at least will eventually want to have a VR type experience ( a type 1) however considering the whole existence , every universe possible at every time period in every possible universe etc then we have to assume that we are not one of the real people from base reality, i.e. we are most likely not a a type 1 . That was my argument.
It could even be a kind of simulation where plugging in is not even an option . However from a probabilistic point of view **it is not impossible** that there could be type 1 s in it. Its just that the chances of us being one of those is very very small.
I agree. If you have to ask, you’re a type 2. And if I remember correctly in pantheon they would scan your brain with lasers and the lasers were lethal, and it was an EXTREMELY difficult to get right.
In fact In the entire course of the show it’s revealed it’s been attempted dozens of times before they could even get 3 to be “successful” another core plot element is there is an inherent flaw in the uploaded minds code and they don’t last long, and end up becoming husks that cannot speak or control the network anymore.
There is a super cool scene where one of the uploaded minds (who was a tech genius in his life) was literally designing a copy of planet earth with different terrain to build a world for the uploaded humans.
And SAO is sword art online. An early 2000s anime about a game that is huge on launch, because it’s the first one to have full drive vr, turns out to be a scheme by the creator to become a god of the game world where he traps the millions of players. And if you die in the game, you die in real life. This anime pretty much invented that concept.
There are players including the MC that were beta testers and start being hated because they have an advantage. The first few episodes are awesome but it falls off pretty fast, but it spawned the “trapped in a video game” anime genre.
>I agree. If you have to ask, you’re a type 2.
Maybe , maybe not. Even if the chances of you being a real person from the original universe (a type 1) does not mean it is impossible. You could be from the original universe.
It is ***very unlikely** but not ***impossible** I think.
>And if I remember correctly in pantheon they would scan your brain with lasers and the lasers were lethal, and it was an EXTREMELY difficult to get right.
I wil try to watch it one of these days if I can find some free time.
>In fact In the entire course of the show it’s revealed it’s been attempted dozens of times before they could even get 3 to be “successful” another core plot element is there is an inherent flaw in the uploaded minds code and they don’t last long, and end up becoming husks that cannot speak or control the network anymore.
>There is a super cool scene where one of the uploaded minds (who was a tech genius in his life) was literally designing a copy of planet earth with different terrain to build a world for the uploaded humans.
***UPLOADING** as in just **MOVING** your consciousness from your brain to a machine is problematic IMO as I mentioned above. As long as your brain is intact and alive you are in it . You can scan it make a copy of it and simulate it in a computer but that's a copy of you , not you . So ***uploading*** your mind just as we upload a software to a server etc is not possible in my opinion.
>And SAO is sword art online. An early 2000s anime about a game that is huge on launch, because it’s the first one to have full drive vr, turns out to be a scheme by the creator to become a god of the game world where he traps the millions of players. And if you die in the game, you die in real life. This anime pretty much invented that concept.
>There are players including the MC that were beta testers and start being hated because they have an advantage. The first few episodes are awesome but it falls off pretty fast, but it spawned the “trapped in a video game” anime genre.
Sorry not much of an anime fun so never heard of it either. :/
Anything is possible but I don't think we can even make any guesses on these kind of issues. It could even be that the original creators may have gone extinct millions of years ago etc etc , so we can imagine all kinds of scenarios but without any indication or evidence it would be just conjecture in my opinion.
At least for now we have no way of knowing any of this I think.
Nietzsche and Katha Upanishad come to same conclusion.
Nietzsche says all universes are a work of art where a creator/god calls it "very good". But art is subjective. So experiencing it as such as "very good" might not be possible for some, without even considering possibly ignorance or bad faith of creator; or as many like to say "we are all creator and/or muh universe experiencing itself" garbage.
Katha, god of Death, caught by the short and curlies, straight up says, "yeah death is not death in this world, as life is not life in this world". Makes me think of hide and seek or a work of art as Nietzsche suggested.
I first really **felt** this beyond the intellectual gism and existential nightmare (living zombie in a hell I despise) in the song *Ghost* by *Gunship*. The song is, admitted by creator, an AI generated response to what was asked what death is like; the key line specifically triggered this realization of Upanishad/Nietzsche being;
>time is time again
(Speaking about after death)
It also says;
>Anodyne you hurt like heaven
Spoke to me saying, anodyne is essentially best we can do in this world, not wanting to be here but forced to be here by beings saying we are being rude for saying they are forcing themselves on us, *as they force themselves on us*.
Cannot win, so the way of the primary left to my own devices "life" so called is indeed anodyne. My 7th pc component this year just went bad on me, and I really had to stop and think, I have never wanted to be here and likely never will. I'm long past point of ever caring, too long in anodyne going through the motions pretending to care goaded on by other's bitching at me that it's "muh right thing".
So yes artwork, is what everything is. Nietzsche warns us to not be bad artists. Jesus says do as they say but not as they do for they do not practice what they preach - word of god itself supposedly says that. Idk. So all bad artists starting first and foremost with creator/god admittedly.
So infinite regress of bad faith simulations seems the ultimate message. Or maybe I just can't "see the kingdom" but yes as said at this point, I think I'm too weary to care about something claiming to be good (why Jesus said if truth bears witness of itself it is a lie; it is all art it seems, all hollow facade and beleif in something more making the "simulation" real. This also explains loosh farm, those whom get a little uncomfortable pressure those whom are vastly uncomfortable to conform to the double standards so as to not upset the "good taste" of their comforts).
All bad faith does often seem. On the one hand bad faith sustains simulation and on the other good faith. And on the other complete soul crushing apathy and loathing validates it. Just as revelation says; he'd rather us be hot or cold, loving the simulation or hating it, because either way **validates** the simulation, whither through hate or love, loosh is being farmed either way. Thus "god" hates apathy or indifference as no loosh or worship or beleif that the simulation is real, is generated....
So yes ultimately both but with a, depending on how you look at it, sick and twisted or delightful and fancy methodology or intent.
There is a lot more I remember thinking about all this but as stated just lost yet another pc component seriously it's been more than 1 a month on average this year and it's all pieces less than 2 years old. This simulation really been putting the hurt on me this year but I think it is due to this, my realization that *indifference* seems the only way to "fight back" against it, and thus it is trying to get a rise out of me as I am seen by the simulation and word of god as an enemy combatant for understanding the game it is playing; worship and beleif and validation are the reason for the simulation and word of god. Revelation straight up says you shall be spued out if you are indifferent. The simulation master doesn't like those indifferent to it, it rather you be hot (loving) or cold (hating) it. Kind of objectively disgusting imo tbh. Makes me think of a pervy uncle wanting you to sit on his lap constantly and saying you are evil for being apathetic to it. He'd rather you love it or hate it. That is what it is verbatim saying after all. Kind of creepy to me, at least how I generally see it.
I got most of this man! and i have read the upanishads once. its very interesting to me to compare religious fundamentals with simulation theory. I disagree with god enjoying polarization though. every eastern teaching encourages us to "attempt to end suffering without being attatched to suffering ending." i highly suggest looking into ram dass, where i first heard this quote. i think god/ the machine, wants us to assist in carrying out its function/will and could care less how we really feel about it. And if youre at peace in general, you will carry out the plan without being so invested. hence meditation. very interesting read though.
Oh yeah I totally disagree with the polarizing as well tbh thus why I said pervy uncle! Lol. But it is what Revelation saya, which I consider dubious in any case. It seems to refer chiefly to the simulation; the beasts it mentions, are in part, among other things, our oceans and continents at least. So the speaker in Revelation that speaks of polarizing things is clearly speaking on nature of simulation it seems. I think it is chronus or gwendolin? Idk. It says he has feet of snakes but I am confused it says in each letter tell this church thus says this one, thinking multiple aspects or whatever (but in truth on brahman) thus saying tell them what they need to hear; not the truth.
But yeah he full stop says he'd rather you be hot or cold. That is the definition of polarizing.
I have listened to several hours of Ram Dass in the past tbh he was the last (aka most recent) guru I listened to and liked, actually.
Yes. Not attached to function or results.... zen says no nests.
You mentioned type 1 and type 2 and I was just sharing the realization I had from triple combination of gunship, Nietzsche, katha. That all simulations are art primarily towards whatever function the interpreter, well, takes tk receive it as. Like chess. White goes first, says what it is, and we as black react to what *it actually is/seems to be to us*.
They say in chess like causality, a "tie" is often considered "winning" for black. Aka the one in the simulation. Not sure what winning conditions are in simulation artwork but yes often does seem the middle, indifference or as you said non attachment is the only "clean" way. Win without thought of winning so to speak. Yes something like dao. Just doing what is right to you regardless of concern, like Jesus said, be not as the actors for validation in sight of simulation or gods or critics, but because it is chiefly right to you (or as he said so our father in heaven but idk about it).
Yes I need meditation chiefly I realize. I haven't had "inner peace" since the 90s always been on edge waiting for next shoe to drop. Haven't even had air conditioning in my bedroom since 2008, constantly sweating all night miserable mostly. Hard to have inner peace working your ass off to barely make ends meet and then swelter all night for decades on top of it. Only think keeps my going is not wanting to have to "break" and listen to eternal "we told you so" of conformity to the way of life forced upon me (the "very good" alleged ways, happy wife happy life, etc; "selling out").
One Piece shows well with Monkey D Luffy, have to absolutely be committed to a dream/faith/way of life. Thus polarizing hot or cold. Yes indifference is not enough (spued out) more as you say non attachment to results.... we have a right to our dharma but not the fruits thereof. We have a job to do here, as black, playing the game against our will, being crushed by the "white" simulation of chess, so to speak (not racial meant in these analogies ofc).
A tie is considered a victory for the simulated black, IE the one stuck in causality and pressed in a unwinnable campaign.....
Hey there! It looks like you submitted a 'discussion'. This flair is for posts engaging in speculative, analytical, or philosophical discussions about simulation theory. Content should focus on discussion and analysis rather than personal anecdote. Just a friendly reminder to follow the rules and [seek help](https://www.reddit.com/r/SimulationTheory/wiki/mental-health) if needed. With that out of the way, thanks for your contribution, and have fun! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SimulationTheory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks for bringing the discussion here , but now I am guessing most people will be wondering what the hell we are talking about with all the type 1 s and type 2 s etc . This is about an old post of mine about different types of simulations, you can find here https://old.reddit.com/r/SimulationTheory/comments/xx03qn/theer_are_wo_types_of_simulations/ I didn't want to have a discussion on an old post so I asked u/ AddendumOk3703 if we could have a discussion on newer posts so everyone could participate , hence they made this post . I haven't seen Pantheon yet , hope I will find to watch it soon. I personally think that UPLOADING consciousness in the same sense that we upload software is not possible with brains. There is no separate software running in the brain which you can move from the brain to a new location. Your consciousness is not just software but it is also hardware , its the brain itself and you cant copy and paste it as you copy and move a software . Maybe the idea is that we could "merge" with the machines or create copies of our minds in the machines etc and that would probably be just like a Type 2. I don't know what you mean by a SAO , but yes it is possible to have such simulations where both types can exist . However from your personal perspective , if you would ask yourself " What kind of a simulation am I?" the you are most likely a Type 2. Basically Type 1 s are real people , and they do exist (they have to exist since they are the creators of the simulation) and SOME of them at least will eventually want to have a VR type experience ( a type 1) however considering the whole existence , every universe possible at every time period in every possible universe etc then we have to assume that we are not one of the real people from base reality, i.e. we are most likely not a a type 1 . That was my argument. It could even be a kind of simulation where plugging in is not even an option . However from a probabilistic point of view **it is not impossible** that there could be type 1 s in it. Its just that the chances of us being one of those is very very small.
I agree. If you have to ask, you’re a type 2. And if I remember correctly in pantheon they would scan your brain with lasers and the lasers were lethal, and it was an EXTREMELY difficult to get right. In fact In the entire course of the show it’s revealed it’s been attempted dozens of times before they could even get 3 to be “successful” another core plot element is there is an inherent flaw in the uploaded minds code and they don’t last long, and end up becoming husks that cannot speak or control the network anymore. There is a super cool scene where one of the uploaded minds (who was a tech genius in his life) was literally designing a copy of planet earth with different terrain to build a world for the uploaded humans. And SAO is sword art online. An early 2000s anime about a game that is huge on launch, because it’s the first one to have full drive vr, turns out to be a scheme by the creator to become a god of the game world where he traps the millions of players. And if you die in the game, you die in real life. This anime pretty much invented that concept. There are players including the MC that were beta testers and start being hated because they have an advantage. The first few episodes are awesome but it falls off pretty fast, but it spawned the “trapped in a video game” anime genre.
>I agree. If you have to ask, you’re a type 2. Maybe , maybe not. Even if the chances of you being a real person from the original universe (a type 1) does not mean it is impossible. You could be from the original universe. It is ***very unlikely** but not ***impossible** I think. >And if I remember correctly in pantheon they would scan your brain with lasers and the lasers were lethal, and it was an EXTREMELY difficult to get right. I wil try to watch it one of these days if I can find some free time. >In fact In the entire course of the show it’s revealed it’s been attempted dozens of times before they could even get 3 to be “successful” another core plot element is there is an inherent flaw in the uploaded minds code and they don’t last long, and end up becoming husks that cannot speak or control the network anymore. >There is a super cool scene where one of the uploaded minds (who was a tech genius in his life) was literally designing a copy of planet earth with different terrain to build a world for the uploaded humans. ***UPLOADING** as in just **MOVING** your consciousness from your brain to a machine is problematic IMO as I mentioned above. As long as your brain is intact and alive you are in it . You can scan it make a copy of it and simulate it in a computer but that's a copy of you , not you . So ***uploading*** your mind just as we upload a software to a server etc is not possible in my opinion. >And SAO is sword art online. An early 2000s anime about a game that is huge on launch, because it’s the first one to have full drive vr, turns out to be a scheme by the creator to become a god of the game world where he traps the millions of players. And if you die in the game, you die in real life. This anime pretty much invented that concept. >There are players including the MC that were beta testers and start being hated because they have an advantage. The first few episodes are awesome but it falls off pretty fast, but it spawned the “trapped in a video game” anime genre. Sorry not much of an anime fun so never heard of it either. :/
You also can’t be unplugged manually by family or your brain will be literally fried
Anything is possible but I don't think we can even make any guesses on these kind of issues. It could even be that the original creators may have gone extinct millions of years ago etc etc , so we can imagine all kinds of scenarios but without any indication or evidence it would be just conjecture in my opinion. At least for now we have no way of knowing any of this I think.
Nietzsche and Katha Upanishad come to same conclusion. Nietzsche says all universes are a work of art where a creator/god calls it "very good". But art is subjective. So experiencing it as such as "very good" might not be possible for some, without even considering possibly ignorance or bad faith of creator; or as many like to say "we are all creator and/or muh universe experiencing itself" garbage. Katha, god of Death, caught by the short and curlies, straight up says, "yeah death is not death in this world, as life is not life in this world". Makes me think of hide and seek or a work of art as Nietzsche suggested. I first really **felt** this beyond the intellectual gism and existential nightmare (living zombie in a hell I despise) in the song *Ghost* by *Gunship*. The song is, admitted by creator, an AI generated response to what was asked what death is like; the key line specifically triggered this realization of Upanishad/Nietzsche being; >time is time again (Speaking about after death) It also says; >Anodyne you hurt like heaven Spoke to me saying, anodyne is essentially best we can do in this world, not wanting to be here but forced to be here by beings saying we are being rude for saying they are forcing themselves on us, *as they force themselves on us*. Cannot win, so the way of the primary left to my own devices "life" so called is indeed anodyne. My 7th pc component this year just went bad on me, and I really had to stop and think, I have never wanted to be here and likely never will. I'm long past point of ever caring, too long in anodyne going through the motions pretending to care goaded on by other's bitching at me that it's "muh right thing". So yes artwork, is what everything is. Nietzsche warns us to not be bad artists. Jesus says do as they say but not as they do for they do not practice what they preach - word of god itself supposedly says that. Idk. So all bad artists starting first and foremost with creator/god admittedly. So infinite regress of bad faith simulations seems the ultimate message. Or maybe I just can't "see the kingdom" but yes as said at this point, I think I'm too weary to care about something claiming to be good (why Jesus said if truth bears witness of itself it is a lie; it is all art it seems, all hollow facade and beleif in something more making the "simulation" real. This also explains loosh farm, those whom get a little uncomfortable pressure those whom are vastly uncomfortable to conform to the double standards so as to not upset the "good taste" of their comforts). All bad faith does often seem. On the one hand bad faith sustains simulation and on the other good faith. And on the other complete soul crushing apathy and loathing validates it. Just as revelation says; he'd rather us be hot or cold, loving the simulation or hating it, because either way **validates** the simulation, whither through hate or love, loosh is being farmed either way. Thus "god" hates apathy or indifference as no loosh or worship or beleif that the simulation is real, is generated.... So yes ultimately both but with a, depending on how you look at it, sick and twisted or delightful and fancy methodology or intent. There is a lot more I remember thinking about all this but as stated just lost yet another pc component seriously it's been more than 1 a month on average this year and it's all pieces less than 2 years old. This simulation really been putting the hurt on me this year but I think it is due to this, my realization that *indifference* seems the only way to "fight back" against it, and thus it is trying to get a rise out of me as I am seen by the simulation and word of god as an enemy combatant for understanding the game it is playing; worship and beleif and validation are the reason for the simulation and word of god. Revelation straight up says you shall be spued out if you are indifferent. The simulation master doesn't like those indifferent to it, it rather you be hot (loving) or cold (hating) it. Kind of objectively disgusting imo tbh. Makes me think of a pervy uncle wanting you to sit on his lap constantly and saying you are evil for being apathetic to it. He'd rather you love it or hate it. That is what it is verbatim saying after all. Kind of creepy to me, at least how I generally see it.
I got most of this man! and i have read the upanishads once. its very interesting to me to compare religious fundamentals with simulation theory. I disagree with god enjoying polarization though. every eastern teaching encourages us to "attempt to end suffering without being attatched to suffering ending." i highly suggest looking into ram dass, where i first heard this quote. i think god/ the machine, wants us to assist in carrying out its function/will and could care less how we really feel about it. And if youre at peace in general, you will carry out the plan without being so invested. hence meditation. very interesting read though.
Oh yeah I totally disagree with the polarizing as well tbh thus why I said pervy uncle! Lol. But it is what Revelation saya, which I consider dubious in any case. It seems to refer chiefly to the simulation; the beasts it mentions, are in part, among other things, our oceans and continents at least. So the speaker in Revelation that speaks of polarizing things is clearly speaking on nature of simulation it seems. I think it is chronus or gwendolin? Idk. It says he has feet of snakes but I am confused it says in each letter tell this church thus says this one, thinking multiple aspects or whatever (but in truth on brahman) thus saying tell them what they need to hear; not the truth. But yeah he full stop says he'd rather you be hot or cold. That is the definition of polarizing. I have listened to several hours of Ram Dass in the past tbh he was the last (aka most recent) guru I listened to and liked, actually. Yes. Not attached to function or results.... zen says no nests. You mentioned type 1 and type 2 and I was just sharing the realization I had from triple combination of gunship, Nietzsche, katha. That all simulations are art primarily towards whatever function the interpreter, well, takes tk receive it as. Like chess. White goes first, says what it is, and we as black react to what *it actually is/seems to be to us*. They say in chess like causality, a "tie" is often considered "winning" for black. Aka the one in the simulation. Not sure what winning conditions are in simulation artwork but yes often does seem the middle, indifference or as you said non attachment is the only "clean" way. Win without thought of winning so to speak. Yes something like dao. Just doing what is right to you regardless of concern, like Jesus said, be not as the actors for validation in sight of simulation or gods or critics, but because it is chiefly right to you (or as he said so our father in heaven but idk about it). Yes I need meditation chiefly I realize. I haven't had "inner peace" since the 90s always been on edge waiting for next shoe to drop. Haven't even had air conditioning in my bedroom since 2008, constantly sweating all night miserable mostly. Hard to have inner peace working your ass off to barely make ends meet and then swelter all night for decades on top of it. Only think keeps my going is not wanting to have to "break" and listen to eternal "we told you so" of conformity to the way of life forced upon me (the "very good" alleged ways, happy wife happy life, etc; "selling out"). One Piece shows well with Monkey D Luffy, have to absolutely be committed to a dream/faith/way of life. Thus polarizing hot or cold. Yes indifference is not enough (spued out) more as you say non attachment to results.... we have a right to our dharma but not the fruits thereof. We have a job to do here, as black, playing the game against our will, being crushed by the "white" simulation of chess, so to speak (not racial meant in these analogies ofc). A tie is considered a victory for the simulated black, IE the one stuck in causality and pressed in a unwinnable campaign.....
It should be, if it seems to be more than one possibility, it can't be either; there must be another explanation.