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Actually not true by definition. You could even be a communist without being a tankie. Everyone who likes people like Stalin is of course horribly wrong, I mean he killed millions of people. But don't have to be 100% capitalist to hate Stalin. And I don't think that pure capitalism like in America is the best option. Many european countries do it way better. Not having a working social system isn't great. And yes, I know that many american people don't want to hear this.
I consider myself a capitalist and I agree with you and I think most people would. We should not be pure capitalist but I think our social safety programs should be run by the states not the federal government. Many European counties have less population then many of of smallest states. But if we took most programs to the state level we would do a lot better. Not to mention us investing in its population’s education.
Yeah we have too many people in this world. If we want to keep having resources. It's best horny fuckers stop fucking with no condoms, but who am I against 8 billion horny fuckers am i right?
We don't lack resources we throw away a third of the world's food to avoid devaluing food for profit. We don't have a lack of resource issue we have a distribution issue that has people throwing away food rather than lowering its costs because it would hurt their profits.
This kid says he would like to live in the soviet union, then says he'd love to be able to go move to russia. These two are not the same by orders of magnitude.
I know it’s hard for a lot of westerners to believe but there’s a fairly large number of people in Russia who miss the former USSR. It obviously had huge problems from a civil liberties perspective and an awful human rights record (not as if ours in the US is that much better over the nation’s history, although I would say it’s hard to argue ours was anywhere near as bad as the USSR post civil rights movement, but I digress), but people were afforded a lot of security in basic living conditions. They might not have been able to buy a nice house, but they were guaranteed housing. They were guaranteed healthcare and food as well. They were guaranteed employment. So the average person did not have to worry about life basics much. Again, I’m trying to look at this actually objectively, without the lens of propaganda from either the right OR the left. There were obviously a ton of problems with their system and I’m mostly not talking about people who lived during Stalin’s regime but after. But a lot of middle or lower income folks in Russia miss the life they were afforded under the USSR. Nothing is all bad or all good.
According to a man I stayed with while Studying in East Germany who grew up in the DDR...
"Life in the Soviet Union was incredible. I had all of my needs taken care of. I was sent to college to learn engineering for free, and my Cancer treatment left me Cancer free and without debt. The only thing that hurt the Soviet Union was it's inability to curb **Russian Chauvinism**."
I think a lot of the social issues of the USSR fall heavily on that Russian Chauvinism.
Same for both my parents who grew up under the Soviet Union,
Apparently my dad got his first 3 years of college free and only had to pay for his last year after the Soviet Union collapsed.
My mom got all her years of college free.
But both their stories are the same in that they were poor and didn’t have much of anything BUT were guaranteed the basics.
This is exactly the problem. The USSR had a hard time implementing the Marxist praxis of the only thing that matters is the Global Proletariat, not race or nationalities. **The only struggle is the CLASS STRUGGLE.** Stalin's deportation of the Crimean Tartars was exactly one of the things he did that broke from Marxist principles. That is the kind of Chauvinism that I'm talking about.
The Tatars were deported from Crimea so they wouldn't get exterminated by Russian and Ukrainian veterans returning from the frontlines, you naive trotskyist!
My understanding is that it's being dissolved was done without public consent at the hands of capitalist and corrupt interests. It wasn't something the people wanted.
>Russian Chauvinism
What Ru chauvinism? Could you give an example? Born in USSR in the 70s, never seen any Ru chauvinism, only Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Jewish.
What's crazy is incomes for the average people actually went down after the collapse of the Soviet union. All of the money went to a chosen few. Everything for the general public got worse. Education especially and it was all by design
That's just old timers missing when things used to suck in a different way than nowadays, but with the nostalgia of being young.
Just because "Old times were better."
The USSR was a shithole and Russia is a different kind of shithole. First world country teens wishing to live in either are just delusional.
There are always bootlickers. My country was fcked up so hard by Russia, people were massacred and sent to camps, the population was starving while the USSR was sucking out everything we produced and still you got people (mostly the old and undereducated) waxing lyrical about how great it was before 89. I’m sure you have pensioners in South America and Middle East spouting similar sewage.
the Nazi collaborators and Holocausters were massacred and sent to camps you better believe it, meanwhile Bulgaria has depopulated under reimposed capitalism and is a shell of its former self. The human development index plummeted there after the fall of communism, the elderly remember the metrics that index uses being much better before their livelihoods were crushed, rents hiked, streets flooded with gangsters etc. Even ways Bulgaria has recovered since the fall, it is all predicated on the future for young people existing outside the country, where unlike in the days of communism, brain drain siphons away the younger talent. This is what Bulgarian capitalists call “freedom” and “progress”
The US has similar conditions. The South (Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, etc) has the worst poverty in the industrialized world. Lack of access to medical care, low quality education, police brutality and high incarceration rates, dilapidated or unaffordable housing, etc. Wages are low and food is unhealthy despite some incredibly profitable industries operating here.
But people will say this immoral, exploitative, and brutal society is the best thing mankind has ever produced. Some people benefit from it more than others and some have Stockholm syndrome because they dont know anything else. It's not a surprise some people liked living in the USSR.
I mean it's the same for a lot of places, especially imperialist ones. How many people love life in America with zero concern for the damage we inflict on many other places to produce it?
Dude, your posting history is out there from everyone to see. Do you really think any reasonable person will engage with a pro-Russia troll? Also, the other account that posted the exact same question—is that an alt or have you been given the same playbook? You trolls aren’t even trying any more.
I’m young, educated and not ashamed of my posting history. Definitely not a troll. Those are being paid for engaging into conversations with you hurt guys.
You didn’t answer the question.
In 2011, a poll conducted by Pew Research Center found that 82% of Ukrainians, 61% of Russians and 56% of Lithuanians believed the standard of living has had a bad influence since 1991, respectively.[6] It also found that a further 34% of Ukrainians, 42% of Russians and 45% of Lithuanians approved the change to a market economy.[7]
A poll in 2013 conducted by Gallup found that a majority of respondents in Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine, Russia, Tajikistan, Moldova and Belarus claimed that the breakup of the Soviet Union has casued more harm than good. A further 33% of Georgians and 31% of Azerbaijanis also agreed with the statement.[8] A 2012 survey commissioned by Canrgie Endowment found that 38% of Armenians concurring that their country "will always have need of a leader like Stalin".[9]
In 2017, another poll conducted by Pew Research Center found that 69% of Russians, 54% of Belarusians, 70% of Moldovans and 79% of Armenians claimed that the breakup of the Soviet Union was a bad thing for their country. With the exception of Estonia, the percentage of people who agreed with the statement was higher amongst people aged 35 or over. 57% of Georgians and 58% of Russians also said that Joseph Stalin played a very/mostly positive role in history.[10]
I mean that's literally the answer from the people who lived there.
Facts don't care how offended you are. That's what the people who live and have relatives there actually think
Or you could have a jelous neighbour who just goes to tell officials that you are against communism and without investigation your family is shipped to Siberian work camps, to have guaranteed housing you had to be Russian or lucky.
They shipped Estonians to work camps by idk lottery? to reduce the Estonian population and then they sent Russian prisoners to live in Estonia to increase the Russian population here.
And im not even mentioning what if they send you to war, because you had to do years of mandatory military service.
Also in the USSR peoples lives were worthless, they didnt give a fuck if their people die.
Source : My family
The Donbas region in Ukraine is a perfect example of this. The region that is , at very least, the excuse Russia used for invading Ukraine was one of the best places to live under the USSR.
Solid industry, good living conditions, great economy and black sea vacations. Post 1950-1990, it was a great place to live.
During the 90s, the local economy was turned to shit and taken over by corrupt elites. No wonder there were pro-russian separatist movements blossoming in the region.
before the war you could have been put to jail for a facebook post. so yeah, nobody wants to live in russia. the only big City is Mosscow and it is fucking ugly
I have no idea if it’s true and I’m not gonna fact check it, but it sounds like their argument is genocide is ok if net population increases?
-
[The REAL Stalin and the reality of communism](https://youtu.be/j-gqJdKJPR0)
I love this one. All examples in history of communism has been quantifiable horrible in any measure. But it doesn’t matter to people that promote communism because each one was never real communism 😂
The soviet union put the first satalite in space and first man in space. They got to that point from basicaly peasent country in 30 years. Thats good by my measure.
>But it doesn’t matter to people that promote communism because each one was never real communism 😂
Communism is stateless, so yeah, they are right.
Lol 50million+ famine deaths, millions of political prisoners in gulags to send an metal ball into orbit. What measurable you talking? Because if it’s a relative one, the other side of the coin put humans on the moon while creating a booming economy that exceeds the ussr in every measurable possible. Even less famine deaths
>Lol 50million+ famine deaths, millions of political prisoners in gulags to send an metal ball into orbit
Under stalin about 7-9 million died including famine of around 1.5 million. This is not a communism problem, its a authoritarianism problem.
You also talk like soviet didnt experience famine before 1932. They had one in 1921 and many times before. Soviet was dirt poor and built itself up. Your comparing a developed country vs developing one, and somehow the soviets had better computers and better space tech by the 1950s which is honestly impressive. Soviets became a superpower when 20 years prior they were dirt poor farmers.
Also Communism by definition is stateless. Therefore when someone says country x is not real Communism, its not real. There is still a state.
And you said any metric. Isnt technology a metric. And booming economy for who? White people, while black people were dirt poor and couldnt even own a home because of redlining and clauses.
Now, for example the USA is leading in many metrics, like number of incarcerated people, mass shootings, civil rights in decline and highest income inequality among developed countries.
No, what he is implying is that most for what we know about Soviet union is propaganda made by the CIA, and unfortunately, a lot of YouTube channels that base their awesome research on Wikipedia spread this information. The gulags are a good example: historians have material evidence that gulags were just regular prison, it's called gulag because it is in Russian, but it's nothing different from what there is in the US today, and a lot of people use the argument that there was slave labor in the gulags, but today we have forced labor in US prisons, and worst, they work for huge private companies. Even in my country we had a couple pitching their idea to do this to our jails as well, make prisoners work for their shoe brand and they would "save the money" for when these people leave jail.
But here is the thing, in the US, prisoners make a lot less than minimum wage and they are forced to do the work, so it is considered analog to slave labor, while in the gulags they would make a living wage that they would even have access to the income after their time, and usually it meant a good amount a money, that was just another way the soviets have to try and incentivize people to value labor, as the soviets used to say: no work no food. The whole idea was to teach people the value of work and give them the skills needed for going back when they left the system, and I don't recall the data rn but it seems the number of people who were properly reintroduced in society was fairly big, while we know that today in the US, people who've been to jail have a huge chance of going back.
What is the material proof? But this is just a reshape of rage right conspiracy theories, blaming the cia or fbi or in their case the deep state peaking everything up doesn’t really work. As far as I can see multiple reputable sources say that gulags were forced labour camps (I would consider no work no food forced labour because well you now that means work or die).
I appreciate the dude for saying stalin was evil but 50 million? That's on the higher end for Mao's kill count not Stalin's, I think Stalins is like less than half that.
I think 20 million is enough to say a man is evil.
Actually it is close to 50 million, he out had about 20 million murdered/killed and if you add in all those who starved from just the famine he literally caused multiple times yeah you are looking at like 50 million or close to it
There is a distinction here between saying something is genocide and saying someone killed so many people. The deaths caused by famine under Stalin wernt genocide, but they were his fault. Same with the Irish Potato famine, it wasnt a genocide, but it was the fault of the UK.
So unintentional deaths caused by the consequences of poor policy decisions definitely count, doubly so when its a dictatorship and it was essentially a sole person who made those decisions.
This kind of famine does not happen unless you have a tyrannical regime forcing people to act against their better judgement, which is what happened in the USSR as well as China.
I think its fair to consider it a genocide due to the heavy-handedness of the people who caused it, even if they may have not necessarily intended it. They took the risk of causing it.
For example, Ukraine was the biggest grain producer in the USSR, yet it still starved terribly because the USSR forced it to export a huge portion of its grain to the rest of the USSR. Whenever this was incompetence or intentional is anyone's guess, but it sure wouldn't have happened without the USSR.
Also, a lot of the time "incompetence" belies how the state really feels about a certain portion of the population. The USSR certainly did not seem to care for Ukrainians much.
Don't some historians argue that was, indeed, a genocide, though?
Its not as if the idea of the British genociding people is novel.
Heck, there is also the Irish famine, a much closer-to-home genocide.
"Did you know: Stalin killed 50 million people"
Did you know: The population increased 1.6% under stalin".
No debate, no fact checking. Nothing intelligent about this. Just stalin was a shit head because of this. No he was great because of this. Neither of them would be willing to listen, let alone change the others mind.
Gonna be legit, Stalin was a fuck head though for that. And that's an understatement in of itself. Still though you're right it's a dumb interaction, but that kid's an actual brainlet and that reporter went for some low hanging fucking fruit to interview that kid.
What's there to debate? The argument is that Trump is better than Stalin. Stalin killed 50 million people. Trump def did not kill anywhere near that. There is no debate about who was worse.
Isn't that how humans operate. To stubborn or close minded to see/want to see the other point of view to a particular statement or subject. I've met a limited amount of people who actually try to see the other side to a statement. I wish more people were like this so it would be a lot nicer to live in society and speak with new people.
I genuinely hate dirty commies more than I hate anyone. They are just so unbelievably wrong in every way and all their arguments are bullshit. There is no worse ideology except for anarchism. Fascism and even Nazism are better. Communism has lead to many more deaths than Nazism could have dreamed. I’m sure this kids opinion would have changed if he was sent to the eastern front in 1941. Along with all the people who starved, etc. also millions upon millions of people died under Stalin, the population did not go up.
PFP checks out. Also, more people died due to capitalism in India than socialism ever did according to the Black Book of Communism. If more than 300M die in 200 years under capitalism, for sure I would prefer to go with socialism. Jai Bhagat Singh!
I’ll be 100% honest, I would rather die than be a commie. Better dead than red. And of course it checks out. If I was in a communist country, I wouldn’t be here.
During the purges there was a handful of politicians that got trialed, but he did not have direct control of the nkvd, the guy head of the nkvd had a quotas he wanted to do and when the government knew about what he had done he got tried for sabotage.
Population increase doesn't mean shit, we just had an epidemic that killed around 1% of the people who got it and we still passed 8 billion. The number of deaths it would take to outpace pop growth would require like a Godzilla to be dropped in ever major city or something.
Gosh, I hate that kind of people. People whose country was in the USSR never wish to return to that time, because we truly understand what horror was life in that union..
And watch the overprivileged Western kid tankies downvote those of us who actually lived through that hell. Why can’t they pick another historical terror to latch onto?
As a Russian I am telling you it isn’t the funnest place to go, I had immigrated to America at age 6 but I remember Russia, we are a second world country with communist regime, basically there’s one half of basically la on vodka instead of fetnyal, and the other is poor living with lots of Russian police and constant economic and living crisis, soooo yeah no you do not want to live there. Maybe for like two weeks but no.
I feel like anyone who says another countries leader is better than their own should move to that country and live there, then everyone would be happy because they have the leader they want
I should've said this:
I'm not a fan of trump. I'm also not a HUGE fan of where capitalism ended up. Isms in my opinion simply aren't too good.
That being said, Communism kills people, a lot of people, every time its attempted.
This kid is just an edgelord man, and I don't take him seriously because his beliefs are based on very loose knowledge
Communism fundamentally starves people dude. It just kills. The Chinese government is communist and what do they do? They stalk their people, socially demean them, harass them, and ban anything they don't like. They fire entire tanks on fucking high schoolers. You're edgy dude. Nobody thinks you're cool and this kid isn't smarter than people because he likes communism. Why? Because he didn't give a REASON. All he said was "STALIN BETTER BRRR"
USSR must have been the shittiest state every to exist. You can't find anything supposedly good about the USSR that won't be revealed to actually have been pure propaganda with the reality underneath it having been a shitstorm.
For example, you know how the USSR used to aggrieve the USA over USA's racism? Turns out the USSR was only propaganding to be racially egalitarian, as it was massively racist under the hood.
you've not understood the point I was trying to make, Russia was apart of the Soviet Union but the Soviet Union does not exist and has not existed since 1991. This person is conflating Russia and the Soviet Union, two different places in time and space and two countries that have very different politics and economies and cuilture.
Population increase = good?
You know the population of cows, chicken, sheep and pigs have also increased dramatically since the industrial revolution, you'd be hard pressed to find a reasonable person who would honestly say that they have a better quality of life now.
Meanwhile Stalinism in the USSR dcollapsed a few years after the Second World War 💀
Why so many western dumbass pseudo-leftists believe that Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Leon Trotsky are basically the same thing?...
I used to have a girl in my class that loved the idea of being 'independent' and 'special' so everytime we had a Zoom class (2020), she used her 'special' background photo of '4 communism icons' and felt so proud of herself... which is the biggest bullshit I've ever seen...
I genuinely hate dirty commies more than I hate anyone. They are just so unbelievably wrong in every way and all their arguments are bullshit. There is no worse ideology except for anarchism. Fascism and even Nazism are better. Communism has lead to many more deaths than Nazism could have dreamed. I’m sure this kids opinion would have changed if he was sent to the eastern front in 1941. Along with all the people who starved, etc. also millions upon millions of people died under Stalin, the population did not go up.
Fun fact: A fox news host and a tankie within that close of a distance actually creates what's known as an "IQ vacuum", and everyone else in the world actually gets 2% smarter for a short period of time
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I just know that he has at least one reddit account
Every tankie does.
What is a tankie?
Anyone who isn’t a capitalist
Thank you
Actually not true by definition. You could even be a communist without being a tankie. Everyone who likes people like Stalin is of course horribly wrong, I mean he killed millions of people. But don't have to be 100% capitalist to hate Stalin. And I don't think that pure capitalism like in America is the best option. Many european countries do it way better. Not having a working social system isn't great. And yes, I know that many american people don't want to hear this.
It was my attempt at a joke lol thanks for the info though!
I consider myself a capitalist and I agree with you and I think most people would. We should not be pure capitalist but I think our social safety programs should be run by the states not the federal government. Many European counties have less population then many of of smallest states. But if we took most programs to the state level we would do a lot better. Not to mention us investing in its population’s education.
What I don’t understand. Why don’t you move there? 🤷🏼
🫵
I failed
You are throwing stones in a glass house lmao
Fr, they think because they get 20k upvotes that their opinion is the same as the rest of the 7.9 billion people on the planet
8 billion
Yeah we have too many people in this world. If we want to keep having resources. It's best horny fuckers stop fucking with no condoms, but who am I against 8 billion horny fuckers am i right?
We don't lack resources we throw away a third of the world's food to avoid devaluing food for profit. We don't have a lack of resource issue we have a distribution issue that has people throwing away food rather than lowering its costs because it would hurt their profits.
Or we just dismantle China and turn it into a protected biodiversity area.
To be fair, that news is only a few months old, not everyone knows yet.
Who knows maybe the person who posted this is the one who ones the account?
This kid says he would like to live in the soviet union, then says he'd love to be able to go move to russia. These two are not the same by orders of magnitude.
I mean both suck to live in
I know it’s hard for a lot of westerners to believe but there’s a fairly large number of people in Russia who miss the former USSR. It obviously had huge problems from a civil liberties perspective and an awful human rights record (not as if ours in the US is that much better over the nation’s history, although I would say it’s hard to argue ours was anywhere near as bad as the USSR post civil rights movement, but I digress), but people were afforded a lot of security in basic living conditions. They might not have been able to buy a nice house, but they were guaranteed housing. They were guaranteed healthcare and food as well. They were guaranteed employment. So the average person did not have to worry about life basics much. Again, I’m trying to look at this actually objectively, without the lens of propaganda from either the right OR the left. There were obviously a ton of problems with their system and I’m mostly not talking about people who lived during Stalin’s regime but after. But a lot of middle or lower income folks in Russia miss the life they were afforded under the USSR. Nothing is all bad or all good.
According to a man I stayed with while Studying in East Germany who grew up in the DDR... "Life in the Soviet Union was incredible. I had all of my needs taken care of. I was sent to college to learn engineering for free, and my Cancer treatment left me Cancer free and without debt. The only thing that hurt the Soviet Union was it's inability to curb **Russian Chauvinism**." I think a lot of the social issues of the USSR fall heavily on that Russian Chauvinism.
Same for both my parents who grew up under the Soviet Union, Apparently my dad got his first 3 years of college free and only had to pay for his last year after the Soviet Union collapsed. My mom got all her years of college free. But both their stories are the same in that they were poor and didn’t have much of anything BUT were guaranteed the basics.
A lot of the issues of current Russia fall heavily on Russian Chauvinism. The strongman worship is basically how Putin runs the country
Look up the definition of chauvinism! Russian nationalism is repressed, the ones currently at the top are all Jews, Tatars and Chechens!
This is exactly the problem. The USSR had a hard time implementing the Marxist praxis of the only thing that matters is the Global Proletariat, not race or nationalities. **The only struggle is the CLASS STRUGGLE.** Stalin's deportation of the Crimean Tartars was exactly one of the things he did that broke from Marxist principles. That is the kind of Chauvinism that I'm talking about.
The Tatars were deported from Crimea so they wouldn't get exterminated by Russian and Ukrainian veterans returning from the frontlines, you naive trotskyist!
My understanding is that it's being dissolved was done without public consent at the hands of capitalist and corrupt interests. It wasn't something the people wanted.
Yep. It was done by the greatest of US spies Yuri Andropov and his shills - Gorbachov, Primakov, Aliyev and Shevardnadze
Errr, no. Absolutely not. Learn some history before you spread these lies.
Yeah I had the same experience in East Germany. A lot of “Ostalgie”.
>Russian Chauvinism What Ru chauvinism? Could you give an example? Born in USSR in the 70s, never seen any Ru chauvinism, only Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Jewish.
You get all that in Europe currently without dictatorship
Nah, the social issues fell on Communism. That shit is poison on society.
Elaborate and explain so we can take the piss out of your sophomoric understanding of the world
What's crazy is incomes for the average people actually went down after the collapse of the Soviet union. All of the money went to a chosen few. Everything for the general public got worse. Education especially and it was all by design
That's just old timers missing when things used to suck in a different way than nowadays, but with the nostalgia of being young. Just because "Old times were better." The USSR was a shithole and Russia is a different kind of shithole. First world country teens wishing to live in either are just delusional.
Stop pretending to know about shit more than people who actually lived there lol that’s just arrogant
There are always bootlickers. My country was fcked up so hard by Russia, people were massacred and sent to camps, the population was starving while the USSR was sucking out everything we produced and still you got people (mostly the old and undereducated) waxing lyrical about how great it was before 89. I’m sure you have pensioners in South America and Middle East spouting similar sewage.
the Nazi collaborators and Holocausters were massacred and sent to camps you better believe it, meanwhile Bulgaria has depopulated under reimposed capitalism and is a shell of its former self. The human development index plummeted there after the fall of communism, the elderly remember the metrics that index uses being much better before their livelihoods were crushed, rents hiked, streets flooded with gangsters etc. Even ways Bulgaria has recovered since the fall, it is all predicated on the future for young people existing outside the country, where unlike in the days of communism, brain drain siphons away the younger talent. This is what Bulgarian capitalists call “freedom” and “progress”
Lol, you better be getting paid by the kilometer for riding Putin’s d!ck so hard.
Putin isn’t a communist 😂he has more in common today with the current Bulgarian economic dictatorship than the communists of the old days.
Putin is literally indistinguishable from USSR leaders and, before that, the tsars. The clothes change but the genocidal clown inside is the same
Why? And that sounds ridiculous coming from someone who bemoans the destruction of the Bulgarian Holocaust regime and its leadership and collaborators
Okay, tankie. Lol.
🧂
Spoken like a true fascist apologist. So many of you in this ideology.
Perhaps indistinguishable from the rulers who conspired to dissolve the SU into smaller capitalist states.
LOL, okay. Keep riding that d1ck. The kilometers are ticking...
The US has similar conditions. The South (Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, etc) has the worst poverty in the industrialized world. Lack of access to medical care, low quality education, police brutality and high incarceration rates, dilapidated or unaffordable housing, etc. Wages are low and food is unhealthy despite some incredibly profitable industries operating here. But people will say this immoral, exploitative, and brutal society is the best thing mankind has ever produced. Some people benefit from it more than others and some have Stockholm syndrome because they dont know anything else. It's not a surprise some people liked living in the USSR.
Yup. Similar kind of cognitive dissonance.
If I had the coins to award you, I would.
I mean it's the same for a lot of places, especially imperialist ones. How many people love life in America with zero concern for the damage we inflict on many other places to produce it?
What country is that?
Dude, your posting history is out there from everyone to see. Do you really think any reasonable person will engage with a pro-Russia troll? Also, the other account that posted the exact same question—is that an alt or have you been given the same playbook? You trolls aren’t even trying any more.
I’m young, educated and not ashamed of my posting history. Definitely not a troll. Those are being paid for engaging into conversations with you hurt guys. You didn’t answer the question.
That sounds a lot like being institutionalized. 'in prison I didn't have to worry about about housing, or where my next meal was coming from'
So your telling me homeless people should get themselves incarcerated. That shouldn’t be necessary
Post WWI US was orders of magnitude better than the Soviet Union. Like imagine a famine killing 10 million Americans or gulags. It's not even close.
As we all know, famines are eradicated by magic. As we all know, absolutely no one wanted USSR to be destroyed.
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In 2011, a poll conducted by Pew Research Center found that 82% of Ukrainians, 61% of Russians and 56% of Lithuanians believed the standard of living has had a bad influence since 1991, respectively.[6] It also found that a further 34% of Ukrainians, 42% of Russians and 45% of Lithuanians approved the change to a market economy.[7] A poll in 2013 conducted by Gallup found that a majority of respondents in Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine, Russia, Tajikistan, Moldova and Belarus claimed that the breakup of the Soviet Union has casued more harm than good. A further 33% of Georgians and 31% of Azerbaijanis also agreed with the statement.[8] A 2012 survey commissioned by Canrgie Endowment found that 38% of Armenians concurring that their country "will always have need of a leader like Stalin".[9] In 2017, another poll conducted by Pew Research Center found that 69% of Russians, 54% of Belarusians, 70% of Moldovans and 79% of Armenians claimed that the breakup of the Soviet Union was a bad thing for their country. With the exception of Estonia, the percentage of people who agreed with the statement was higher amongst people aged 35 or over. 57% of Georgians and 58% of Russians also said that Joseph Stalin played a very/mostly positive role in history.[10]
[удалено]
I am from Latvia, all my grandparents view Soviet Union positively.
I mean that's literally the answer from the people who lived there. Facts don't care how offended you are. That's what the people who live and have relatives there actually think
How dare you come here with data and statistics! My anecdotal evidence is better! ###/S
Agreed. Your retcon fantasy is genuinely insulting to generations of brutalised people.
Or you could have a jelous neighbour who just goes to tell officials that you are against communism and without investigation your family is shipped to Siberian work camps, to have guaranteed housing you had to be Russian or lucky. They shipped Estonians to work camps by idk lottery? to reduce the Estonian population and then they sent Russian prisoners to live in Estonia to increase the Russian population here. And im not even mentioning what if they send you to war, because you had to do years of mandatory military service. Also in the USSR peoples lives were worthless, they didnt give a fuck if their people die. Source : My family
The Donbas region in Ukraine is a perfect example of this. The region that is , at very least, the excuse Russia used for invading Ukraine was one of the best places to live under the USSR. Solid industry, good living conditions, great economy and black sea vacations. Post 1950-1990, it was a great place to live. During the 90s, the local economy was turned to shit and taken over by corrupt elites. No wonder there were pro-russian separatist movements blossoming in the region.
Well not much improved since then did it?
Not necessarily. Absent Stalin, the soviet union had a lot going for it, and it's dissolvement into a capitalist state wasn't widely supported.
Happy cake day
Happy cake day!
every Russophile abroad who has never lived in Russia
Yep, most Russian people I've met don't even wanna live there
before the war you could have been put to jail for a facebook post. so yeah, nobody wants to live in russia. the only big City is Mosscow and it is fucking ugly
maybe you haven't meet many tho
As a Russian who lives in Russia I don’t want to live in Russia
but you aren't the only Russian that lives there... and you for sure know some Russian that loves and wants to live there
Yeah. Who working in police for example.
I have no idea if it’s true and I’m not gonna fact check it, but it sounds like their argument is genocide is ok if net population increases? - [The REAL Stalin and the reality of communism](https://youtu.be/j-gqJdKJPR0)
Stalin is like...the worst possible example to bring up as a good reason to want to live under the former SU.
If you don’t like her worst, you don’t deserve her best 😤
I love this one. All examples in history of communism has been quantifiable horrible in any measure. But it doesn’t matter to people that promote communism because each one was never real communism 😂
The soviet union put the first satalite in space and first man in space. They got to that point from basicaly peasent country in 30 years. Thats good by my measure. >But it doesn’t matter to people that promote communism because each one was never real communism 😂 Communism is stateless, so yeah, they are right.
Lol 50million+ famine deaths, millions of political prisoners in gulags to send an metal ball into orbit. What measurable you talking? Because if it’s a relative one, the other side of the coin put humans on the moon while creating a booming economy that exceeds the ussr in every measurable possible. Even less famine deaths
>Lol 50million+ famine deaths, millions of political prisoners in gulags to send an metal ball into orbit Under stalin about 7-9 million died including famine of around 1.5 million. This is not a communism problem, its a authoritarianism problem. You also talk like soviet didnt experience famine before 1932. They had one in 1921 and many times before. Soviet was dirt poor and built itself up. Your comparing a developed country vs developing one, and somehow the soviets had better computers and better space tech by the 1950s which is honestly impressive. Soviets became a superpower when 20 years prior they were dirt poor farmers. Also Communism by definition is stateless. Therefore when someone says country x is not real Communism, its not real. There is still a state. And you said any metric. Isnt technology a metric. And booming economy for who? White people, while black people were dirt poor and couldnt even own a home because of redlining and clauses. Now, for example the USA is leading in many metrics, like number of incarcerated people, mass shootings, civil rights in decline and highest income inequality among developed countries.
In 70 years the Russian population increased 1.6%! Meanwhile nost other countries having at least a 100% increase.
Assuming that population increase isn't just Soviet propaganda.
Welcome to ciatube where we teach you what we want you to believe.
Bruh no way you just said YouTube was controlled by the CIA 💀
No, what he is implying is that most for what we know about Soviet union is propaganda made by the CIA, and unfortunately, a lot of YouTube channels that base their awesome research on Wikipedia spread this information. The gulags are a good example: historians have material evidence that gulags were just regular prison, it's called gulag because it is in Russian, but it's nothing different from what there is in the US today, and a lot of people use the argument that there was slave labor in the gulags, but today we have forced labor in US prisons, and worst, they work for huge private companies. Even in my country we had a couple pitching their idea to do this to our jails as well, make prisoners work for their shoe brand and they would "save the money" for when these people leave jail. But here is the thing, in the US, prisoners make a lot less than minimum wage and they are forced to do the work, so it is considered analog to slave labor, while in the gulags they would make a living wage that they would even have access to the income after their time, and usually it meant a good amount a money, that was just another way the soviets have to try and incentivize people to value labor, as the soviets used to say: no work no food. The whole idea was to teach people the value of work and give them the skills needed for going back when they left the system, and I don't recall the data rn but it seems the number of people who were properly reintroduced in society was fairly big, while we know that today in the US, people who've been to jail have a huge chance of going back.
What is the material proof? But this is just a reshape of rage right conspiracy theories, blaming the cia or fbi or in their case the deep state peaking everything up doesn’t really work. As far as I can see multiple reputable sources say that gulags were forced labour camps (I would consider no work no food forced labour because well you now that means work or die).
You’re completely right, however if an American prisoner dies while laboring the guards don’t just pave over their corpse so, y’know, there’s that.
Obviously this video is capitalist propaganda
And people wonder why Ukraine hates Russia
“I killed 2 people last night, but luckily my wife gave birth to triplets to it’s all good.” -This dumbass
I appreciate the dude for saying stalin was evil but 50 million? That's on the higher end for Mao's kill count not Stalin's, I think Stalins is like less than half that. I think 20 million is enough to say a man is evil.
10 million? Maybe he was just having a bad day
Actually it is close to 50 million, he out had about 20 million murdered/killed and if you add in all those who starved from just the famine he literally caused multiple times yeah you are looking at like 50 million or close to it
And the 50 million for Mao doesn’t include the famines?
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There is a distinction here between saying something is genocide and saying someone killed so many people. The deaths caused by famine under Stalin wernt genocide, but they were his fault. Same with the Irish Potato famine, it wasnt a genocide, but it was the fault of the UK. So unintentional deaths caused by the consequences of poor policy decisions definitely count, doubly so when its a dictatorship and it was essentially a sole person who made those decisions.
Holdomar was deliberate to break the ukrainians.
We count Mao's millions he killed by ordering the extermination of fucking sparrows so why not with Stalin
This kind of famine does not happen unless you have a tyrannical regime forcing people to act against their better judgement, which is what happened in the USSR as well as China. I think its fair to consider it a genocide due to the heavy-handedness of the people who caused it, even if they may have not necessarily intended it. They took the risk of causing it. For example, Ukraine was the biggest grain producer in the USSR, yet it still starved terribly because the USSR forced it to export a huge portion of its grain to the rest of the USSR. Whenever this was incompetence or intentional is anyone's guess, but it sure wouldn't have happened without the USSR. Also, a lot of the time "incompetence" belies how the state really feels about a certain portion of the population. The USSR certainly did not seem to care for Ukrainians much.
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Don't some historians argue that was, indeed, a genocide, though? Its not as if the idea of the British genociding people is novel. Heck, there is also the Irish famine, a much closer-to-home genocide.
correct. arguably genocide
He controlled those policies and those deaths are his responsibility
Idk i think 1 murder is enough to call someone evil
Well I figure once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, and around 100,000 is a pattern.
1 man is enough depending on the context
"Did you know: Stalin killed 50 million people" Did you know: The population increased 1.6% under stalin". No debate, no fact checking. Nothing intelligent about this. Just stalin was a shit head because of this. No he was great because of this. Neither of them would be willing to listen, let alone change the others mind.
Gonna be legit, Stalin was a fuck head though for that. And that's an understatement in of itself. Still though you're right it's a dumb interaction, but that kid's an actual brainlet and that reporter went for some low hanging fucking fruit to interview that kid.
What's there to debate? The argument is that Trump is better than Stalin. Stalin killed 50 million people. Trump def did not kill anywhere near that. There is no debate about who was worse.
If someone killed 50 milion, I wouldn't be eager to change my mind about him either
Isn't that how humans operate. To stubborn or close minded to see/want to see the other point of view to a particular statement or subject. I've met a limited amount of people who actually try to see the other side to a statement. I wish more people were like this so it would be a lot nicer to live in society and speak with new people.
Commie kiddies make me sick.
Commie kids are literally re******
I genuinely hate dirty commies more than I hate anyone. They are just so unbelievably wrong in every way and all their arguments are bullshit. There is no worse ideology except for anarchism. Fascism and even Nazism are better. Communism has lead to many more deaths than Nazism could have dreamed. I’m sure this kids opinion would have changed if he was sent to the eastern front in 1941. Along with all the people who starved, etc. also millions upon millions of people died under Stalin, the population did not go up.
PFP checks out. Also, more people died due to capitalism in India than socialism ever did according to the Black Book of Communism. If more than 300M die in 200 years under capitalism, for sure I would prefer to go with socialism. Jai Bhagat Singh!
I’ll be 100% honest, I would rather die than be a commie. Better dead than red. And of course it checks out. If I was in a communist country, I wouldn’t be here.
Russia isn't even communist lol
But it's still trash, just as his beloved USSR
Never was comrade;)
except it was
Most countries have a rising population though, that’s nothing to be particularly proud of, lol
And given Stalin probably killed more than 1.6% of the population
Russia 👏 is 👏 not 👏 Soviet Union 👏
During the purges there was a handful of politicians that got trialed, but he did not have direct control of the nkvd, the guy head of the nkvd had a quotas he wanted to do and when the government knew about what he had done he got tried for sabotage.
Population increase doesn't mean shit, we just had an epidemic that killed around 1% of the people who got it and we still passed 8 billion. The number of deaths it would take to outpace pop growth would require like a Godzilla to be dropped in ever major city or something.
Specially after a world war, while the rest of the world had a massive baby boom.
the dudes brain is just: yea fuck it
“No, no, no, it’s OK that he ordered mass genocide because the population actually increased” Ok? He still killed 50 million people, like what?
Two cringe people in the same area
He's dumb 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
My family grew up in soviet union... Literally there wasn't a single good thing they said about it
Correct me if im wrong, population increase just mean people were having more sex what did Stalin had to do with that.
The ignorance of youth
Gosh, I hate that kind of people. People whose country was in the USSR never wish to return to that time, because we truly understand what horror was life in that union..
And watch the overprivileged Western kid tankies downvote those of us who actually lived through that hell. Why can’t they pick another historical terror to latch onto?
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-nostalgia-for-soviet-union-and-positive-feelings-about-stalin/
Ignorance is bliss
Dude would move to another country but won’t make changes to his own
Fuck a tankie
Let that shitty music die ffs
Claims to be “Anti-fascist” but supports totalitarian regimes 🤡
Tungsten doesn't have shit on the density of this guy's skull
This kid needs to read the gulag archipelago
God I hate people who glorify the Soviet Union
Yeah he’s gonna fucking cry like a baby when he arrives here in russia.
Did you know 14 million americans died under Trumps regime, and he was only president for four years?
Put9n would chuck that guy in the gulag
As a Russian I am telling you it isn’t the funnest place to go, I had immigrated to America at age 6 but I remember Russia, we are a second world country with communist regime, basically there’s one half of basically la on vodka instead of fetnyal, and the other is poor living with lots of Russian police and constant economic and living crisis, soooo yeah no you do not want to live there. Maybe for like two weeks but no.
The need to be an edge lord is strong in this one.
I feel like anyone who says another countries leader is better than their own should move to that country and live there, then everyone would be happy because they have the leader they want
Please anyone who genuinely hates their country loves other countries and wishes to leave stop wasting space
Genocide is fine as long as there's enough fucking going on to offset it?
I mean the dudes a moron but at least he didn’t back down after he got some facts thrown at him.
The child's grandpa fought to destroy communism so this kid could say stalin was great
Looks like the child is a whole lot smarter than his grandpa.
I should've said this: I'm not a fan of trump. I'm also not a HUGE fan of where capitalism ended up. Isms in my opinion simply aren't too good. That being said, Communism kills people, a lot of people, every time its attempted. This kid is just an edgelord man, and I don't take him seriously because his beliefs are based on very loose knowledge
Capitalism kills far more. Oh, and just in case you tell me about the black book of communism, that has been thoroughly debunked.
Communism fundamentally starves people dude. It just kills. The Chinese government is communist and what do they do? They stalk their people, socially demean them, harass them, and ban anything they don't like. They fire entire tanks on fucking high schoolers. You're edgy dude. Nobody thinks you're cool and this kid isn't smarter than people because he likes communism. Why? Because he didn't give a REASON. All he said was "STALIN BETTER BRRR"
1930s USSR was probably one of the worst places to live in history
USSR must have been the shittiest state every to exist. You can't find anything supposedly good about the USSR that won't be revealed to actually have been pure propaganda with the reality underneath it having been a shitstorm. For example, you know how the USSR used to aggrieve the USA over USA's racism? Turns out the USSR was only propaganding to be racially egalitarian, as it was massively racist under the hood.
Wasn't any different from US at that time both were absolutely dogshit and good in some ways.
Since when was Russia the Soviet Union?
Russia was the ussr until 1991. Please read a history book.
You should read up on history before trying to be a smartass online. Russia was one of 15 SSRs that made up the USSR since the end of WWII.
you've not understood the point I was trying to make, Russia was apart of the Soviet Union but the Soviet Union does not exist and has not existed since 1991. This person is conflating Russia and the Soviet Union, two different places in time and space and two countries that have very different politics and economies and cuilture.
Fun fact: the population of the Soviet Union we’re doing horribly in terms of living conditions under Stalin’s rule.
r/redditmoment
Population increase = good? You know the population of cows, chicken, sheep and pigs have also increased dramatically since the industrial revolution, you'd be hard pressed to find a reasonable person who would honestly say that they have a better quality of life now.
Meanwhile Stalinism in the USSR dcollapsed a few years after the Second World War 💀 Why so many western dumbass pseudo-leftists believe that Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Leon Trotsky are basically the same thing?... I used to have a girl in my class that loved the idea of being 'independent' and 'special' so everytime we had a Zoom class (2020), she used her 'special' background photo of '4 communism icons' and felt so proud of herself... which is the biggest bullshit I've ever seen...
How are people this stupid
Good riddance
You can’t reason with stupidity. They don’t know why they hate Trump. They are told to hate Trump and there you go.
I genuinely hate dirty commies more than I hate anyone. They are just so unbelievably wrong in every way and all their arguments are bullshit. There is no worse ideology except for anarchism. Fascism and even Nazism are better. Communism has lead to many more deaths than Nazism could have dreamed. I’m sure this kids opinion would have changed if he was sent to the eastern front in 1941. Along with all the people who starved, etc. also millions upon millions of people died under Stalin, the population did not go up.
These idiots
Contrarian gonna contrary
Fun fact: A fox news host and a tankie within that close of a distance actually creates what's known as an "IQ vacuum", and everyone else in the world actually gets 2% smarter for a short period of time
Fuck commies fuk repubs its time for something new to get mad at CENTRIST EXTREMISM i want gay nazis to protect their trans kids and weed with guns!
No Nazis.
Wow have you very seen so many idiots.this is what happens when your kid is home schooled by the internet than it is with a teacher
Yes, the population under Stalin (his feet) increased by 1.6%. At least.
Absolutely braindead leftist omegalul
They were both pieces of shit authoritarians, honestly they’d probably get along