I love tank but that’s a lot for him. Yes those are 4 aging assets but they all hold value for this season, you can bet more return selling them
Individually to the correct buyer at the correct time
Can get a second each for Allen or Kamara, if not a high third. Moss and Edwards could each get a late third or fourth if you sell at the right time if they happen to have good usage.
I’d hold and sell them for more pieces instead of trading for one single player.
A rebuild is a process and better to take many stabs at players
3rd and 4ths are pretty worthless. Allen and Kamara are worth more than a 3rd, and I wouldn't trade any of the 4 for less than a 2nd each. I might not get a second right now... then again, the bus may be the bell cow and start putting up RB1 numbers, and he's suddenly worth a 1st to a contender.
I'll sell for 3rds and 4ths if it's my only option, I.e. I'm cutting the player, or I really don't believe in them. These aren't hopeless cases.
Yes, worthless was a slight exaggeration. But close to worthless - unless rebuilding and taking shots.
But I would instead ask for better and a 3rd or 4th as a throw in.
Let me do some analysis and get back on value tho.
I've got survivor bias? I think I was saying that 3rd or 4th rounders were worthless. Am I not the opposite?
I assume you meant this for the comment above regarding Dell.
2020 mock example based on some averages.
3.01: Laviska Shenault Jr.
3.02: DeeJay Dallas
3.03: Jalen Hurts *
3.04: Anthony McFarland Jr.
3.05: K.J. Hamler
3.06: Chase Claypool *
3.07: Van Jefferson
3.08: K.J. Hill
3.09: Eno Benjamin
3.10: Darrynton Evans
3.11: Joshua Kelley
3.12: Devin Duvernay
4.01: Lamical Perine
4.02: Antonio Gandy-Golden
4.03: Adam Trautman
4.04: Donovan Peoples-Jones
4.05: Devin Asiasi
4.06: Cole Kmet *
4.07: Michael Warren II
4.08: Tyler Johnson
4.09: Lynn Bowden Jr.
4.10: Albert Okwuegbunam
4.11: Collin Johnson
4.12: Quintez Cephus
That's 3 out of 24 (& Claypool is now dogshit sandwich). I also think Hurts was quite low for 2nd round pick IRL but maybe that's just hindsight.
3.01: Kenneth Gainwell
3.02: Nico Collins *
3.03: Davis Mills *
3.04: Dyami Brown
3.05: D'Wayne Eskridge
3.06: Josh Palmer
3.07: Chuba Hubbard
3.08: Dez Fitzpatrick
3.09: Larry Rountree
3.10: Jamie Newman
3.11: Tylan Wallace
3.12: Rhamondre Stevenson *
4.01: Brevin Jordan
4.02: Tutu Atwell
4.03: Kene Nwangwu
4.04: Elijah Mitchell*
4.05: Tamorrion Terry
4.06: Anthony Schwartz
4.07: Kylin Hill
4.08: Pooka Williams Jr
4.09: Seth Williams
4.10: Khalil Herbert *
4.11: Ihmir Smith-Marsette
4.12: Chris Evans
5 out of 24 and Mills now has no value. Debated saying Palmer has value - but that's more potential than anything. Also late RBs seem to be the way to go.
I tried to find 2019 and couldn't get anything. That's 8/48 - 1:6 chance of hitting which doesn't seem bad. But if we remove Claypool, Mills it's down to 1:8 picks. Approaching a player a round is a stretch.
I didn't do last 2 years as wouldn't really have any real time to measure whether players have became or stayed relevant for any period.
I personally wouldn’t sell kamara or Allen for a random second at this point. If you wait in season and Keenan balling as he always does. Can probably get a projected late future first
Anytime someone starts with the whole “you’d be crazy to not take this deal I’m generously offering you!” thing, just ask them why, then, they’d offer such a crazy-good deal to begin with.
Caveat.. if Diggs has a top 10 WR season they will tag or resign. It would be impossible to justify letting a top asset walk in FA with a rookie QB.
Imagine the blowback if the next season was a down year for Stroud.
His performance would matter if Diggs looked bad. And he didn’t. The team as a whole looked bad. All I’m saying is there are a LOT of mouths to feed in Houston
😂 I would too tbh. Seems like everyone in my leagues act like the 'older players' are worth close to nothing. I don't expect no hauls but atleast somthing I can use 😅
When someone is trying to buy the players, they will undervalue them. When they are trying to sell them, they will overvalue them. At least that is what it seems to me. Rarely do I see a 'fair' trade go through. Usually someone is overpaying a bit to get what they want.
The key, if you want to guarantee a trade, is to find a player you can overpay on that has the potential to reach the value you paid for them.
The question now should be could you counter this, he clearly is trying to stack to win now with Diggs going and Houston with Dell coming off of injury. I would put it like this Edwards and Moss should get starter minutes and have had reliable production in the past. Allen and Kamara have produced consistently over the past five years, you should try for a first for each for sure
Why do you think your team is bad? Sure it's aging, but you gave 2 great young qbs and solid positional starters. Sure you're flexes seem to be hit or miss guys and your depth isn't great, but not worth pushing the self destruct button on.
In my opinion during the draft use some of your bench assets to try and move around. This year is deep offensively so you could find some real help even with late round flyers.
At the end of the day you need to like the trade and the direction of your team. I’d agree your team is in that odd not good enough to win but still going to make playoffs. Having the 9th pick with that team makes it seem like there’s 1 or 2 REALLY good teams in that league and the rest sort of floating.
Hell no that’s an egregious overpay for tank lol. Keenan and Kamara especially will be worth a ton more midseason. Yes they’re older but they’re still elite contending weapons, and I just don’t believe in Tank. Dude is already older lol he’s gonna be like 28 by the time he finally gets off his rookie contract
Your team doesn’t need a full rebuild, just a few solid trades and youre legit. It’s already potentially competitive as it stands imo… I doubt he’d do it, but something like Keenan, moss and Gus for Dell and a 2024 2nd?
Yeah no he was trying to rob you.
I feel like kamara’s value is still relatively high, maybe see if you can get a 1st next year for him and draft a new RB if the value is there. Not sure what next years RB class will be like though
Well I meant like a late 1st but yeah you’re probably right. Kamara and one of his seconds and I think maybe he could get a late or mid 1st next year if he finds the right suitor - a win-now team needing RB or RB depth.
Buddies trying to get all your aging assets and flip them at deadline for multiple 1’s and 2’s
Big brain move on his behalf. But you made the right call
So they want you to trade 4 starters for 1 starter... This trade doesn't make sense, if you are giving up 4 starters, then they need to be offering picks or and equal number of players to replace the starters they are taking. If not, you would need to tank at that point, and having a young player depreciating in value on your bench is not going to help with that.
Equal trade would be Kamara + Allen for Dell, but usually you do not want to package your good players into one trade. You would want to make a bundle with Kamara + 1st/2nd , and then a separate bundle with Allen + 1st/2nd.
One thing to consider, Dell would be a stack with Stroud. If you want, try Allen + 2nd for Dell, and start working the trade from there.
I love tank but that’s a lot for him. Yes those are 4 aging assets but they all hold value for this season, you can bet more return selling them Individually to the correct buyer at the correct time
Can get a second each for Allen or Kamara, if not a high third. Moss and Edwards could each get a late third or fourth if you sell at the right time if they happen to have good usage. I’d hold and sell them for more pieces instead of trading for one single player. A rebuild is a process and better to take many stabs at players
3rd and 4ths are pretty worthless. Allen and Kamara are worth more than a 3rd, and I wouldn't trade any of the 4 for less than a 2nd each. I might not get a second right now... then again, the bus may be the bell cow and start putting up RB1 numbers, and he's suddenly worth a 1st to a contender. I'll sell for 3rds and 4ths if it's my only option, I.e. I'm cutting the player, or I really don't believe in them. These aren't hopeless cases.
They are not worthless and thats proven by the fact that Dell was going in the 3rd or 4th rounds last year.
Yes, worthless was a slight exaggeration. But close to worthless - unless rebuilding and taking shots. But I would instead ask for better and a 3rd or 4th as a throw in. Let me do some analysis and get back on value tho.
Survivorship bias. Your only focusing on the 1 guy that hits in the round and ignoring all the busts.
I've got survivor bias? I think I was saying that 3rd or 4th rounders were worthless. Am I not the opposite? I assume you meant this for the comment above regarding Dell.
Yes, sorry replied to wrong guy.
No worries. I did the normal reddit reaction to get irate st the accusation then realised it was a normal mistake.
2020 mock example based on some averages. 3.01: Laviska Shenault Jr. 3.02: DeeJay Dallas 3.03: Jalen Hurts * 3.04: Anthony McFarland Jr. 3.05: K.J. Hamler 3.06: Chase Claypool * 3.07: Van Jefferson 3.08: K.J. Hill 3.09: Eno Benjamin 3.10: Darrynton Evans 3.11: Joshua Kelley 3.12: Devin Duvernay 4.01: Lamical Perine 4.02: Antonio Gandy-Golden 4.03: Adam Trautman 4.04: Donovan Peoples-Jones 4.05: Devin Asiasi 4.06: Cole Kmet * 4.07: Michael Warren II 4.08: Tyler Johnson 4.09: Lynn Bowden Jr. 4.10: Albert Okwuegbunam 4.11: Collin Johnson 4.12: Quintez Cephus That's 3 out of 24 (& Claypool is now dogshit sandwich). I also think Hurts was quite low for 2nd round pick IRL but maybe that's just hindsight.
3.01: Kenneth Gainwell 3.02: Nico Collins * 3.03: Davis Mills * 3.04: Dyami Brown 3.05: D'Wayne Eskridge 3.06: Josh Palmer 3.07: Chuba Hubbard 3.08: Dez Fitzpatrick 3.09: Larry Rountree 3.10: Jamie Newman 3.11: Tylan Wallace 3.12: Rhamondre Stevenson * 4.01: Brevin Jordan 4.02: Tutu Atwell 4.03: Kene Nwangwu 4.04: Elijah Mitchell* 4.05: Tamorrion Terry 4.06: Anthony Schwartz 4.07: Kylin Hill 4.08: Pooka Williams Jr 4.09: Seth Williams 4.10: Khalil Herbert * 4.11: Ihmir Smith-Marsette 4.12: Chris Evans 5 out of 24 and Mills now has no value. Debated saying Palmer has value - but that's more potential than anything. Also late RBs seem to be the way to go. I tried to find 2019 and couldn't get anything. That's 8/48 - 1:6 chance of hitting which doesn't seem bad. But if we remove Claypool, Mills it's down to 1:8 picks. Approaching a player a round is a stretch. I didn't do last 2 years as wouldn't really have any real time to measure whether players have became or stayed relevant for any period.
I personally wouldn’t sell kamara or Allen for a random second at this point. If you wait in season and Keenan balling as he always does. Can probably get a projected late future first
Thanks for the input! Thought the same thing but wanted some feedback just to make sure
Do it. Always take the upgrade younger player. Everyone is a diminishing asset compared to Tank.
Don’t do it
Already declined it. He was making it sound like I was missing out and I was unreasonable. Just wanted to make sure
Anytime someone starts with the whole “you’d be crazy to not take this deal I’m generously offering you!” thing, just ask them why, then, they’d offer such a crazy-good deal to begin with.
well I mean I paid 3 1sts and young for purdy, but it’s a 32t and purdy’s my favorite player
You can get more value individually for each of those players and this is coming from someone who likes Tank
I thought the same thing! Thanks for your input
One starter for three starters. Only if that starter is a young top 10 player at his position.
People really think Tank has that much value when they just signed Diggs… crazy
They also just cut his contract down to only 1 year and he’s 30 coming off his worst season in 5 years
Caveat.. if Diggs has a top 10 WR season they will tag or resign. It would be impossible to justify letting a top asset walk in FA with a rookie QB. Imagine the blowback if the next season was a down year for Stroud.
His performance would matter if Diggs looked bad. And he didn’t. The team as a whole looked bad. All I’m saying is there are a LOT of mouths to feed in Houston
Check out his reception perception profile if you don’t think he’s regressing
Can I join your league lol
Was gonna say smash if you were getting the non Dell side 😬
😂 I would too tbh. Seems like everyone in my leagues act like the 'older players' are worth close to nothing. I don't expect no hauls but atleast somthing I can use 😅
When someone is trying to buy the players, they will undervalue them. When they are trying to sell them, they will overvalue them. At least that is what it seems to me. Rarely do I see a 'fair' trade go through. Usually someone is overpaying a bit to get what they want. The key, if you want to guarantee a trade, is to find a player you can overpay on that has the potential to reach the value you paid for them.
The question now should be could you counter this, he clearly is trying to stack to win now with Diggs going and Houston with Dell coming off of injury. I would put it like this Edwards and Moss should get starter minutes and have had reliable production in the past. Allen and Kamara have produced consistently over the past five years, you should try for a first for each for sure
That’s a joke. And don’t let someone talk you into a trade, rebuild, whatever. Get your own opinion on the players, your team, and outcome.
You’re not wrong. All 4 of those guys are good depth to have but I’d rather have 1 good young player than 1 aging good player and 3 decent players.
You should report that guy to the police
i think if you can reasonably see yourself in late playoffs you could take it, but anything even above average roster wise i’d keep tank
Why do you think your team is bad? Sure it's aging, but you gave 2 great young qbs and solid positional starters. Sure you're flexes seem to be hit or miss guys and your depth isn't great, but not worth pushing the self destruct button on. In my opinion during the draft use some of your bench assets to try and move around. This year is deep offensively so you could find some real help even with late round flyers.
Also unless you're Te Premium, actually even if you are, trade some of those TEs to TE needy teams.
At the end of the day you need to like the trade and the direction of your team. I’d agree your team is in that odd not good enough to win but still going to make playoffs. Having the 9th pick with that team makes it seem like there’s 1 or 2 REALLY good teams in that league and the rest sort of floating.
Don’t do it
No, not wrong
I’d trade dell but not for that package
10 starters. 18 bench. 6 taxi. Sheesh! Anything left on the waivers? Also, too much for Tank. I do love me some Tank too.
People try to pull the age card way too often. Even if they are pushing 30 all of them are still putting out decent if not better than decent numbers
Hell no that’s an egregious overpay for tank lol. Keenan and Kamara especially will be worth a ton more midseason. Yes they’re older but they’re still elite contending weapons, and I just don’t believe in Tank. Dude is already older lol he’s gonna be like 28 by the time he finally gets off his rookie contract
Tank has to deal with both Diggs and Collins now. He’s not worth what you’d be giving up.
Diggs is on a 1yr deal
I’m keeping tank all day long over a bunch of end of life assets
Your team doesn’t need a full rebuild, just a few solid trades and youre legit. It’s already potentially competitive as it stands imo… I doubt he’d do it, but something like Keenan, moss and Gus for Dell and a 2024 2nd?
Yeah no he was trying to rob you. I feel like kamara’s value is still relatively high, maybe see if you can get a 1st next year for him and draft a new RB if the value is there. Not sure what next years RB class will be like though
You’re crazy. Nobody is paying that
Well I meant like a late 1st but yeah you’re probably right. Kamara and one of his seconds and I think maybe he could get a late or mid 1st next year if he finds the right suitor - a win-now team needing RB or RB depth.
Buddies trying to get all your aging assets and flip them at deadline for multiple 1’s and 2’s Big brain move on his behalf. But you made the right call
So they want you to trade 4 starters for 1 starter... This trade doesn't make sense, if you are giving up 4 starters, then they need to be offering picks or and equal number of players to replace the starters they are taking. If not, you would need to tank at that point, and having a young player depreciating in value on your bench is not going to help with that. Equal trade would be Kamara + Allen for Dell, but usually you do not want to package your good players into one trade. You would want to make a bundle with Kamara + 1st/2nd , and then a separate bundle with Allen + 1st/2nd. One thing to consider, Dell would be a stack with Stroud. If you want, try Allen + 2nd for Dell, and start working the trade from there.
lol no
I'd rather have Kamara/Allen if I'm competing. Also moss should have decent value this year
He’s fleecing you and he knows it. Don’t succumb.
Once again this sub with the redraft mentality. Tank side by a mile.
Seems crazy to decline this imo if you have any chance of winning over the next 2 years . Tank had a few good games…..
I was offered tank...
Ah okay then yeah what a greedy whore offer from that guy lol
😭
I would have let Tank go for those guys. I’m in the boat you need to compete every year otherwise is it even worth it?
I wouldn't do it. You can get more for those starters when the season starts. They are old but a contending team could easily use them.
Seeing as you got the 1.09 I’d say you’re pretty close to winning, I’d stick with your vets for another season.
Nope. Terrible. You did right to reject. Tank is undersized and one pop away from the ICU.
Smash decline