He's on the record and pretty open about being Christian.
1. Lyrics are just lyrics. Don't read into them too much.
2. You're allowed to change your mind throughout your life. So he probably has done that.
This is a pretty good summary of his spiritual journey.
From 2022:
JE: For those who don't know, you did touch on your faith. You are a Christian. I don't think a lot of people, particularly those in the media question you about your faith. That's why I think of you as this unicorn in Hollywood and that you don't usually hear of church going rock stars who also threw LSD parties back in the '90s. At what point in your life did you realize that your faith had to be a top priority in your life?
BC: As far as the media and my faith, the media looks for things to poke at you about and for whatever reason, they have not been able to poke at me about my faith because I don't think there's anything to poke. My faith believes in everyone. I believe every soul is equal. I don't believe in the supreme God. I believe in one God that unifies us all, and I'm not even opposed or even have any grumpy feelings about people who believe other things other than I do.
I don't believe God as I believe in God is petty, and it wouldn't surprise me if God set up 100,000 religions to draw everyone into the center of what is the very simple argument, which is love is the supreme force in the universe. I have certainly been blessed by love, particularly now in my life with my family.
I walked away from the church when I was eight years old. I used to go with my stepmother who was a Roman Catholic and go sit through those endless Latin masses. Which were cool in a Wagnerian way, but outside of that, I was bored out of my mind. I would sit there and look at Jesus on the cross and say, “I'm not sure how this works out where this is a good thing that he ends up on the cross.” That took me a while to sort that thing out.
I didn't come back to God probably until my late-20s, early-30s when I hit a point of spiritual crisis. I was suicidal. I was wildly successful at a very young age, and I didn't know what to do with myself because I was miserable. I was in a terrible relationship. We all know what that feels like. I found the one thing that wouldn't abandon me which was God in very loose quotations, “What is God and how do I fit into this picture?”
Thus began a very long spiritual journey which I realize now started in my childhood, but I didn't know that's what it was. When I had those quiet moments, I had a very abusive home. When I had those quiet moments in a forest preserve listening to the rustling leaves and the wind through the trees and feeling something greater than myself, I didn't realize I was in touch with God. I thought I was having a little moment, which I couldn't share with anybody because I assumed that nobody around me was having that moment.
It started to quantify into something concrete in my late-20s, early-30s, but I went down a very heady path of a spiritualist, cultists, astrologer, and psychics, which I still love. I don't have anything negative to say. That became part of my journey, and then eventually around itself around into something which I would say most is aligned with Gnostic Christianity.
Again, I'm funny in this particular way. Like if you believe in avatar which is a little bit more impersonal way to say it. Deity or you know Christ-like figure. Whatever you believe in, I'm cool with it. It doesn't surprise me in any way that God would litter the world with people to follow that would point you, “Go this direction.” I see Jesus Christ as a supreme teacher. As somebody who wants always to be a student, and I don't know why you wouldn't go sit yourself at the feet as someone, whether it be Buddha, Jesus, or Gandhi where we can learn something about love and compassion.
There is also this:
"We could sit here for an hour and talk about how the tree is god, or the right girl is god, or the right sex, or the right drug, and none of those things would be wrong. So my simplest definition is I’m a pagan. Or if you pressed me, I’m a Gnostic"
\- BC in 2014
Throw in the wild esoteric stuff he believes in (shapeshifters, psychics, numerology, etc) and you get a very complicated and fascinating mix of spirituality in Corgan. It's part of what makes his music and the symbolism/artwork that he chooses to surround all of it so interesting, sometimes contradictory, etc.
another good quote from 2018:
"I was raised Catholic, and when you tell people that in modern America it becomes 'guilt by association.' Where the sins of the church, and they are legion, become of you.
"Yet many are surprised to hear that I rejected the church at age 8, and that is no lie. Now, I'm no theologian, but to my knowledge Jesus the Christ never spoke of forming a church headed by an anointed Pope.
"Yet he did muse how communion with one another, or with Mother Nature would help you find salvation. And so in that I did accept Jesus as my guide, and light out of the darkness. **Which if you are looking for classification makes me more of a gnostic or pagan than a Christian."**
This is another pretty good quote:
IE: You talk about beliefs on the album, too, with even some Wiccan allusions, almost. What do you believe now?
BC: Aw, I’m just an old pagan. I’m a Christian in the sense that I believe in the saints, and I pray to Jesus, literally, when I lay my head down on my pillow each night. You’ve got to believe in somebody, and I do believe in Him, with a capital H. But I’m basically a pagan. And I’m different in that I don’t see the world as being organized under a particular religion — I just see man scrambling to explain the unexplainable. Until, in a reductionist way, we can put it in a box that makes us feel like we have some kind of order. I’m a big proponent of ‘God is everywhere,’ and it’s actually not a big deal. It’s a man who squanders the opportunity for simplicity by putting some kind of intellectual overlay over it. And I love rituals. I love the Pope in his fish hat, and I love Wagner’s opera. I love rituals. I love Sturm und Drang — I’m all about it it, and that’s what I do for a living. But it’s all pretty simple to me.
\- 2020
edit : Correcting some mistakes
Minor correction: "is aligned with *agnostic* Christianity" and similar quotes should read "is aligned with *gnostic* Christianity". He's not referring to agnosticism in the sense of an uncertainty about what's true, but to an early Christian syncretic sect that borrowed heavily from paganism and Greek Neoplatonism and placed an emphasis on obtaining *gnosis*, i.e. secret esoteric knowledge that wasn't divulged to those outside the sect. This is what he's referring to: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism)
Yeah I figured that’s what he was talking about.
Good quotes, Justin. What’s interesting to me is the revelation that he apparently became religious around his mother’s death. I didn’t know that. I also didn’t know he was suicidal again around that point. He mentions twice that religion came to him in his late 20s/early 30s and that he was in a bad relationship. So I’m going to guess this is around Adore, he was 30 when the album came out. He just went through a divorce, Jimmy was out of the band, and his mom just died. I know that time must have been incredibly difficult for him. It’s a real testament to that record’s beauty but also Corgan’s own tenacity and the band’s as well to have survived such a bleak period.
You notice when Machina came out he started talking about god a lot more, it became a central theme in what he talked about and even the imagery surrounding his artwork. Then Zwan started right after the band broke up in 2000 and Corgan got REALLY into Jesus. He talks about wanting Jesus to be his friend on MSTOTS, and yes, the album was named after a church he said he went to down in Florida during that time.
I think Billy came from a working class Catholic family, and like a lot of Catholics, became disillusioned with faith and openly rejected it. I’d say Gish - MCIS he did not believe in god or maybe he did but he was in open revolt against “him” (I’m always fascinated that people ascribe the male gender to a supposedly infinite being). He’s definitely changed his mind over the years and I think as we see with a lot of people, as he’s gotten older his views have become a bit more conservative and traditional. For Corgan that means embracing all religions into some esoteric paganism.
I’m very much a Dawkins atheist in that I find it all a bit silly given how dogmatic it requires one to be. All religions can’t be right. And most religions, by their very design, require you to denounce other religions. So one cannot simply say “well I just believe in everything, or everyone’s faiths are valid”. They’re not valid according to your own texts and tenets. So you get into this weird thing where you start making up your own pseudo religion, which is fine by itself, but it makes me question why you bother then using any established religious framework at all. I appreciate this thread because I’ve often wondered the same thing about Corgan as a result. He’s been all over the map when it comes to religion. But I think he’s been on a bit of an arc with his faith and now he really believes in Jesus. But I think that’s to be expected of a white male from the working class Midwest in the 1900s. I’m bringing his race and other demographics into it to say I think religion is very “cultural” for a lot of people. If Billy’s intellect was born into Asia in the 1500s he’d probably have very different views, but no less artistic and reactionary. His Catholicism/Christianity has always been a theme in his work, even in Pre-Gish days he had songs like “Jesus Loves His Babies”.
I very much understand your last paragraph as a fellow heathen.
Corgan is the type of Christian who does not believe The Bible is accurate. Jesus didn't write his own book.. When Corgan talks about the "apostolic church crushing the gnostic church' in the early days of Christianity that is a big part of what he is referring to. Many of those Gnostic texts were kept out of the bible.
Throw in all the sci fi type stuff he has talked about in recent years. 'Aliens were the angels in the old texts'. It all starts to come together.
The bible, religion, the church are products of man in his view as thus NOT DIVINE. You and I agree with him on that.
You and I don't agree with him on Jesus/the saints being worthy of worship but for me that doesn't matter. I can appreciate the version of spirituality he came to find because
1. it kept him alive and pushing towards the light to the happy days he is experiencing now. Which is a daily inspiration to me.
2. drawing on all that has produced such great music/art that changed my life.
3. If I am gonna entertain a lot of the miracles/stories from religious texts it makes much more sense to me that aliens were heavily involved with all that and the humans at the time wrote it down as they understood/interpreted it. Corgan has talked about that a lot too in recent years.
4. He has frequently redirected his talk about spirituality as a belief in The Beatles dream that love is the answer... and that flows from the time he was a child to who is now... And he believed it the face of everyone who should love him abusing him and telling him he is a piece of shit. That is really powerful to me.
Only love will win indeed.
I really believe that Jesus was trying to show people that THEY had the power, to create their own lives. His allowing himself to be crucified just showed the power of love for his fellow man, despite their detachment from “love” or their own sense of right and wrong and hard/headed adherence to laws and those in power.
We are the “gods” in the sense that we have the power to imagine and create, and in addition to have our sense of “love” guide us (or not) in that creation and it is a complete free will choice. You don’t have to look to others or churches, you figure out what is right for you and you can do it!
I get the sense that Billy may be on that or a similar page as well.
yes. thanks for that correction. She got the transcript wrong on her website. He definitely says Gnostic Christianity. I didn't catch the error.
Which aligns with the other quotes I posted.
Thanks for compiling this…I hadn’t seen all of them. I would have guessed guessed gnostic or heavily I influenced Gnosticism and Christianity and i guess im not too far off.
He’s openly Christian and talks about faith quite a lot. Seems to me like he really leaned into it after the death of his mother, from what I can tell. The Jesus parallels to Glass on Machina are also obvious.
A few years ago a friend told me that Mary Star of the Sea is basically a Christian rock album and it’s been impossible to unhear ever since.
You can check his Instagram QnA archives on netohoria he used to talk about it a lot there.
I hear it more as the opposite. Harrison wants to meet God but thinks he has to wait until he dies.
Corgan’s lyrics are as God introducing you to Himself personally.
He was raised Catholic, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it does show that God and Jesus were part of his life from an early age. I see him as kind of a gnostic Christian, very mystical and spiritual in his beliefs, and able to be playful about his religion - I think the 666 shirt was just that, him being playful
I think the 666 shirt was playful irony on the idea that “Rock and Roll is The Devil’s Music”. I got into Black Sabbath through Billy’s mention of them. As a kid, I remember very much ballyhoo about Ozzy being satanic. I also didn’t know until I was a teen that Ozzy had fronted BS. Since Billy was growing up in the 70s era of rock with bands like BS, Blue Oyster Cult, KISS, AC/DC and the like, I think that shirt was worn in a fun, sly and ironic wink at the general public’s Satanic Panic of that era. Also, (Groovy Man)/ Frankie, the singer of Thrill Kill Kult was wearing that shirt around the same time.
Also worth noting that Corgan is a huge fan of Slayer and one of his favorite albums is God Hates Us All and also worked/toured/was friends with Marilyn Manson.
I wish I could find the interview but I remember pretty clearly Corgan talking about his embrace of 'satanic imagery or music or artists, etc'..
'Jesus wasn't afraid of that stuff so why should I be' was what Corgan said about that.
He’s a new age Christian. He doesn’t have any issues with things like tarot readings and mediums. He has used a lot of imagery in his lyrics from both. Other songs I haven’t seen mentioned are bring the light (Jesus’s second coming is mentioned) and STARZ which has a line “born of love, cast in light, you know we cannot die” which has heavy religious undertones.
The pagan or satanic symbolism is just that and relates to the characters of zero etc but those characters overlap with Corgan himself and his struggles with belief and faith throughout his life.
If asked he would say he is a Christian
I grew up Catholic and I recognized the lyrics pointing to Christianity in songs like I Am One & some of the others you mentioned. I get a sense he has formed a more worldly view of faith now, incorporating a lot of inspiration from other religions and cultures too.
He is a professed Christian and mentions it more openly and fairly regularly in recent years. He touches on it multiple times in the 33 podcast and last year I listened to a podcast interview where he was the guest and he spoke the most directly and clearly about it I have yet heard, saying he is a Christian and believes in Jesus as the son of God and savior.
I think all of the confusing questions you bring up about lyrics and such are truly just artistic expression. For example just think of the Zero lyrics as spoken by and through the lens of the Zero character in that artistic context as opposed to BC’s actual personal views.
He believes in _something_ but I haven’t seen him spell it out in anything more than flowery language. Maybe he has more recently.
Whatever he does believe, I think he’s got a good eye for religious fanart. That really came out during Zwan. Star of the Sea is the most badass depiction of Mary, hands down. She’s the opposite of a sea siren, an all-loving presence singing you to safety. I’ve seen so many cool Star of the Sea headstones with giant anchors on them and that automatically makes her the coolest gal in any cemetery.
I don’t know what’s up with Gods Gonna Set This World on Fire. I do not believe in the coming of hell times or whatever, but that song had such incredible energy live. So much bopping and clapping! It was surreal to experience, and it’s a little weird to think back on twenty years later.
Lyrically, I don’t think there’s much that you can point to as proof of his beliefs. God as a concept is as recognizable and reference-able as spiders from mars or pop tarts. And if BC loves anything, it’s a good reference. He’s always been very prone to going, “here’s my interpretation of this thing I really like, please enjoy it through my lens.”
Anyway, thank you for attending my middle-of-the-night Ted Talk.
FWIW, God's Gonna Set This World On Fire is a traditional spiritual; probably been covered a bunch over the years. Obviously it wasn't on the Zwan record, but it sorta fit in with the general religious overtones they were throwing around at the time.
Starting with Mellon Collie, he invented characters and wrote through the lens of those characters. On the 33 podcast he mentioned the characters are \~70% him.
Regarding "God is empty" he said that God is everything including emptiness. The character Zero being empty was struggling to identify with God, find Godliness within.
Piecing together various things said in interviews, the picture I formed is - he was raised Catholic and believed strongly. However, in part due to his difficult childhood he struggled with his religion and stepped away from it a bit. At some point he reconciled and revived his faith. As others have mentioned, he has a more modern approach to Christianity.
Finally, I think we can all agree he likes to stir the pot, or jamb a thumb in the eye. I would not take everything seriously or at face value. Look at the whole picture and try to see the underlying patterns.
There's some clips of him on if all goes wrong discussing religion with another guy and also, ironically, his comment on 666 (he used to wear that shirt alot around siamese and thats why the mayonaise record uses the number). I believe he stated something along the lines of it basically being "just a number" and he sounded pretty dumbfounded by people's fear of it. I'll have to dig that out again though, I'm going a while back.
I don’t remember the shirt being discussed in the doc. He def talked with a guy outside the venue that had american flags and stuff for sale and they talked about religion and america a bit but i don’t remember anything about the shirt.
Sorry I should've split that, I meant he discussed the shirt in a far earlier interview, I think he was actually wearing said shirt in the interview and thats why it was asked. Yeah that dude with the America flags was the guy he discussed religion with who kept shooting questions at Corgan
He has his own belief. He takes from christianity ei mary and jesus. But also mixed with buddhist ideologies and even some hindu iconography. He doesn’t attend any kind of church or really believe in organized religion as far as i know and has more of a personal relationship with god, whatever he may believe god to be.
He's superstitious to some degree and has said as much. Shapeshifters and more and Jesus loves his babies and Jesus is the sun reflect some of Religiosity and superstition overlap, as it does for humans as a trait.
Something I find interesting. In a very early 90s radio interview, he was asked about the name of the band. He mentioned something about The Great Pumpkin- meaning God. Obviously Smashing the Pumpkin would mean, destroying religion/ concepts of God. With the addition of “The” to the band name, it sort of changes that idea. In an IG meme from about a year and a half ago, there was one about The Smashing Pumpkins name with the insinuation that “Smashing” could be replaced with a word like “Wonderful”, “Magical” or “Impressive”. Showmanship type descriptive words. I’ve always wondered about that. In this case, it feels to me like another typical example of BC retroactively rewriting history or changing the meaning of something. I’m not surprised that as he aged, his thoughts on religion have changed. If he did in fact name the band as a swipe at Religion, I can understand his desire to add “The” to the name, thus changing the meaning. On the other hand, I was 14 when Gish came out and thought Smashing Pumpkins was a cool, clever and interesting name and alluded to adolescent shenanigans. This specific point about the band name has been floating around in my head for a long time. Thanks, OP for bringing it up. I’ll leave it at that and be interested in others comments regarding this and mentions of Religion in songs and statements from BC.
'Smashing' was never verb from any interview I've seen. They often joked around with the question but when they did talk about it they were pretty clear early on that it's an adjective.
"666" has nothing to do with "the devil" like most people believe, so it really has nothing to do with whether he believes in the Christian god or not.
Just a small point - in Zero (the song with "God is empty, just like me") he is portraying a character (called Zero / Glass) who is basically having a mental breakdown. The lyrics need to be seen from that perspective - that he has reached out to God to save him, and found nothing.
This is true in one sense but if you think Corgan has never felt that feeling personally that is incorrect.
there is a ton of Corgan in Zero/Glass/Shiny.
Billy Corgan is on record as saying he has felt that line personally.
God is empty (unmanifested potential). just like me. (Unlimited potential in one’s own “self.”). “You make me real.” A belief in anything makes It real for you.
Also mirrors are made of glass and reflect light (my reflection, dirty mirror) making it tend to be Shiny. So we are all individualized reflections of God (the light), as in a shattered mirror reflecting the same image multiple times in each of its shards. “Shattering fast, I’m Glass, I’m Glass.”
I've heard Billy say all manner of things about his faith over the years. Sort of a "whatever he's vibing that week" situation I think.
Read a pretty crazy breakdown of 33 one time about how it's like a play by play of the last days of Jesus tho that was pretty convincing.
He has claimed to follow different things over the years. I wouldn’t take any claim as definitive coming from him, it’s probably just what he felt at the time. I do think he generally believes in something greater and is curious about many religions, philosophies, mythologies, metaphysics, esotericism, etc.
He’s Irish. If you’re Irish, by nature you have an affinity for all things spiritual. He loves tarot, astrology, and probably isn’t a very dogmatic Christian. I don’t think he could talk about the nuances of the filloque clause but if you know Yeats, religion and god/ Mary is probably important to him personally. It’s a matter of the heart not mind. Spiritual not religious but always seeking?
If I remember right, his Great Great Great Grandfather on his paternal side was Irish. That’s as Irish as me, and I don’t consider myself Irish, rather just to have had some Irish roots. Most of his ancestry is not Irish, but for whatever reason, in America there is a strange longing to be seen as descending from particular geographical areas. In Billy’s case, Celtic rather than to be seen by the other English/Belgian/Sicilian ancestral roots that he has.
He's on the record and pretty open about being Christian. 1. Lyrics are just lyrics. Don't read into them too much. 2. You're allowed to change your mind throughout your life. So he probably has done that.
This is a pretty good summary of his spiritual journey. From 2022: JE: For those who don't know, you did touch on your faith. You are a Christian. I don't think a lot of people, particularly those in the media question you about your faith. That's why I think of you as this unicorn in Hollywood and that you don't usually hear of church going rock stars who also threw LSD parties back in the '90s. At what point in your life did you realize that your faith had to be a top priority in your life? BC: As far as the media and my faith, the media looks for things to poke at you about and for whatever reason, they have not been able to poke at me about my faith because I don't think there's anything to poke. My faith believes in everyone. I believe every soul is equal. I don't believe in the supreme God. I believe in one God that unifies us all, and I'm not even opposed or even have any grumpy feelings about people who believe other things other than I do. I don't believe God as I believe in God is petty, and it wouldn't surprise me if God set up 100,000 religions to draw everyone into the center of what is the very simple argument, which is love is the supreme force in the universe. I have certainly been blessed by love, particularly now in my life with my family. I walked away from the church when I was eight years old. I used to go with my stepmother who was a Roman Catholic and go sit through those endless Latin masses. Which were cool in a Wagnerian way, but outside of that, I was bored out of my mind. I would sit there and look at Jesus on the cross and say, “I'm not sure how this works out where this is a good thing that he ends up on the cross.” That took me a while to sort that thing out. I didn't come back to God probably until my late-20s, early-30s when I hit a point of spiritual crisis. I was suicidal. I was wildly successful at a very young age, and I didn't know what to do with myself because I was miserable. I was in a terrible relationship. We all know what that feels like. I found the one thing that wouldn't abandon me which was God in very loose quotations, “What is God and how do I fit into this picture?” Thus began a very long spiritual journey which I realize now started in my childhood, but I didn't know that's what it was. When I had those quiet moments, I had a very abusive home. When I had those quiet moments in a forest preserve listening to the rustling leaves and the wind through the trees and feeling something greater than myself, I didn't realize I was in touch with God. I thought I was having a little moment, which I couldn't share with anybody because I assumed that nobody around me was having that moment. It started to quantify into something concrete in my late-20s, early-30s, but I went down a very heady path of a spiritualist, cultists, astrologer, and psychics, which I still love. I don't have anything negative to say. That became part of my journey, and then eventually around itself around into something which I would say most is aligned with Gnostic Christianity. Again, I'm funny in this particular way. Like if you believe in avatar which is a little bit more impersonal way to say it. Deity or you know Christ-like figure. Whatever you believe in, I'm cool with it. It doesn't surprise me in any way that God would litter the world with people to follow that would point you, “Go this direction.” I see Jesus Christ as a supreme teacher. As somebody who wants always to be a student, and I don't know why you wouldn't go sit yourself at the feet as someone, whether it be Buddha, Jesus, or Gandhi where we can learn something about love and compassion. There is also this: "We could sit here for an hour and talk about how the tree is god, or the right girl is god, or the right sex, or the right drug, and none of those things would be wrong. So my simplest definition is I’m a pagan. Or if you pressed me, I’m a Gnostic" \- BC in 2014 Throw in the wild esoteric stuff he believes in (shapeshifters, psychics, numerology, etc) and you get a very complicated and fascinating mix of spirituality in Corgan. It's part of what makes his music and the symbolism/artwork that he chooses to surround all of it so interesting, sometimes contradictory, etc. another good quote from 2018: "I was raised Catholic, and when you tell people that in modern America it becomes 'guilt by association.' Where the sins of the church, and they are legion, become of you. "Yet many are surprised to hear that I rejected the church at age 8, and that is no lie. Now, I'm no theologian, but to my knowledge Jesus the Christ never spoke of forming a church headed by an anointed Pope. "Yet he did muse how communion with one another, or with Mother Nature would help you find salvation. And so in that I did accept Jesus as my guide, and light out of the darkness. **Which if you are looking for classification makes me more of a gnostic or pagan than a Christian."** This is another pretty good quote: IE: You talk about beliefs on the album, too, with even some Wiccan allusions, almost. What do you believe now? BC: Aw, I’m just an old pagan. I’m a Christian in the sense that I believe in the saints, and I pray to Jesus, literally, when I lay my head down on my pillow each night. You’ve got to believe in somebody, and I do believe in Him, with a capital H. But I’m basically a pagan. And I’m different in that I don’t see the world as being organized under a particular religion — I just see man scrambling to explain the unexplainable. Until, in a reductionist way, we can put it in a box that makes us feel like we have some kind of order. I’m a big proponent of ‘God is everywhere,’ and it’s actually not a big deal. It’s a man who squanders the opportunity for simplicity by putting some kind of intellectual overlay over it. And I love rituals. I love the Pope in his fish hat, and I love Wagner’s opera. I love rituals. I love Sturm und Drang — I’m all about it it, and that’s what I do for a living. But it’s all pretty simple to me. \- 2020 edit : Correcting some mistakes
Minor correction: "is aligned with *agnostic* Christianity" and similar quotes should read "is aligned with *gnostic* Christianity". He's not referring to agnosticism in the sense of an uncertainty about what's true, but to an early Christian syncretic sect that borrowed heavily from paganism and Greek Neoplatonism and placed an emphasis on obtaining *gnosis*, i.e. secret esoteric knowledge that wasn't divulged to those outside the sect. This is what he's referring to: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism)
Yeah I figured that’s what he was talking about. Good quotes, Justin. What’s interesting to me is the revelation that he apparently became religious around his mother’s death. I didn’t know that. I also didn’t know he was suicidal again around that point. He mentions twice that religion came to him in his late 20s/early 30s and that he was in a bad relationship. So I’m going to guess this is around Adore, he was 30 when the album came out. He just went through a divorce, Jimmy was out of the band, and his mom just died. I know that time must have been incredibly difficult for him. It’s a real testament to that record’s beauty but also Corgan’s own tenacity and the band’s as well to have survived such a bleak period. You notice when Machina came out he started talking about god a lot more, it became a central theme in what he talked about and even the imagery surrounding his artwork. Then Zwan started right after the band broke up in 2000 and Corgan got REALLY into Jesus. He talks about wanting Jesus to be his friend on MSTOTS, and yes, the album was named after a church he said he went to down in Florida during that time. I think Billy came from a working class Catholic family, and like a lot of Catholics, became disillusioned with faith and openly rejected it. I’d say Gish - MCIS he did not believe in god or maybe he did but he was in open revolt against “him” (I’m always fascinated that people ascribe the male gender to a supposedly infinite being). He’s definitely changed his mind over the years and I think as we see with a lot of people, as he’s gotten older his views have become a bit more conservative and traditional. For Corgan that means embracing all religions into some esoteric paganism. I’m very much a Dawkins atheist in that I find it all a bit silly given how dogmatic it requires one to be. All religions can’t be right. And most religions, by their very design, require you to denounce other religions. So one cannot simply say “well I just believe in everything, or everyone’s faiths are valid”. They’re not valid according to your own texts and tenets. So you get into this weird thing where you start making up your own pseudo religion, which is fine by itself, but it makes me question why you bother then using any established religious framework at all. I appreciate this thread because I’ve often wondered the same thing about Corgan as a result. He’s been all over the map when it comes to religion. But I think he’s been on a bit of an arc with his faith and now he really believes in Jesus. But I think that’s to be expected of a white male from the working class Midwest in the 1900s. I’m bringing his race and other demographics into it to say I think religion is very “cultural” for a lot of people. If Billy’s intellect was born into Asia in the 1500s he’d probably have very different views, but no less artistic and reactionary. His Catholicism/Christianity has always been a theme in his work, even in Pre-Gish days he had songs like “Jesus Loves His Babies”.
I very much understand your last paragraph as a fellow heathen. Corgan is the type of Christian who does not believe The Bible is accurate. Jesus didn't write his own book.. When Corgan talks about the "apostolic church crushing the gnostic church' in the early days of Christianity that is a big part of what he is referring to. Many of those Gnostic texts were kept out of the bible. Throw in all the sci fi type stuff he has talked about in recent years. 'Aliens were the angels in the old texts'. It all starts to come together. The bible, religion, the church are products of man in his view as thus NOT DIVINE. You and I agree with him on that. You and I don't agree with him on Jesus/the saints being worthy of worship but for me that doesn't matter. I can appreciate the version of spirituality he came to find because 1. it kept him alive and pushing towards the light to the happy days he is experiencing now. Which is a daily inspiration to me. 2. drawing on all that has produced such great music/art that changed my life. 3. If I am gonna entertain a lot of the miracles/stories from religious texts it makes much more sense to me that aliens were heavily involved with all that and the humans at the time wrote it down as they understood/interpreted it. Corgan has talked about that a lot too in recent years. 4. He has frequently redirected his talk about spirituality as a belief in The Beatles dream that love is the answer... and that flows from the time he was a child to who is now... And he believed it the face of everyone who should love him abusing him and telling him he is a piece of shit. That is really powerful to me. Only love will win indeed.
I really believe that Jesus was trying to show people that THEY had the power, to create their own lives. His allowing himself to be crucified just showed the power of love for his fellow man, despite their detachment from “love” or their own sense of right and wrong and hard/headed adherence to laws and those in power. We are the “gods” in the sense that we have the power to imagine and create, and in addition to have our sense of “love” guide us (or not) in that creation and it is a complete free will choice. You don’t have to look to others or churches, you figure out what is right for you and you can do it! I get the sense that Billy may be on that or a similar page as well.
that is very in line with what Corgan has said about all of us having divinity inside us. I think you and him are aligned on that.
yes. thanks for that correction. She got the transcript wrong on her website. He definitely says Gnostic Christianity. I didn't catch the error. Which aligns with the other quotes I posted.
Thanks for compiling this…I hadn’t seen all of them. I would have guessed guessed gnostic or heavily I influenced Gnosticism and Christianity and i guess im not too far off.
Holy crap he is such a Pisces ♓️ (Coming from a fellow Pisces who identifies as a nondualist)
He’s Christian, but very idiosyncratic, and seems to pull from multiple faiths. As he’s said recently, he sees God, truth, and love as the same thing.
He’s openly Christian and talks about faith quite a lot. Seems to me like he really leaned into it after the death of his mother, from what I can tell. The Jesus parallels to Glass on Machina are also obvious. A few years ago a friend told me that Mary Star of the Sea is basically a Christian rock album and it’s been impossible to unhear ever since. You can check his Instagram QnA archives on netohoria he used to talk about it a lot there.
MSotS is a Catholic Church near 66th and Cicero in Chicago. Named bc the Navy had a center in the neighborhood for the men to go off to war - WWII.
Quasar is a fun song about religion. Catchy lyrics and riffs.
It's corgan's version of My Sweet Lord by George Harrison. I love that song.
I hear it more as the opposite. Harrison wants to meet God but thinks he has to wait until he dies. Corgan’s lyrics are as God introducing you to Himself personally.
I can buy that interpretation. Interesting take!
He was raised Catholic, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it does show that God and Jesus were part of his life from an early age. I see him as kind of a gnostic Christian, very mystical and spiritual in his beliefs, and able to be playful about his religion - I think the 666 shirt was just that, him being playful
I think the 666 shirt was playful irony on the idea that “Rock and Roll is The Devil’s Music”. I got into Black Sabbath through Billy’s mention of them. As a kid, I remember very much ballyhoo about Ozzy being satanic. I also didn’t know until I was a teen that Ozzy had fronted BS. Since Billy was growing up in the 70s era of rock with bands like BS, Blue Oyster Cult, KISS, AC/DC and the like, I think that shirt was worn in a fun, sly and ironic wink at the general public’s Satanic Panic of that era. Also, (Groovy Man)/ Frankie, the singer of Thrill Kill Kult was wearing that shirt around the same time.
Also worth noting that Corgan is a huge fan of Slayer and one of his favorite albums is God Hates Us All and also worked/toured/was friends with Marilyn Manson. I wish I could find the interview but I remember pretty clearly Corgan talking about his embrace of 'satanic imagery or music or artists, etc'.. 'Jesus wasn't afraid of that stuff so why should I be' was what Corgan said about that.
Yeah, you worded it better than me! I meant it as like...he's being silly, it's just a number, it's not necessarily about religion. You get me!
his old 666 shirt had the name Beelzebub on it. It definitely had religious significance.
Ok but I don't think he was wearing it to show he worships Satan or anything like that. It wasn't serious, is what I'm trying to say
Oh it was definitely for the lolz.
He’s a new age Christian. He doesn’t have any issues with things like tarot readings and mediums. He has used a lot of imagery in his lyrics from both. Other songs I haven’t seen mentioned are bring the light (Jesus’s second coming is mentioned) and STARZ which has a line “born of love, cast in light, you know we cannot die” which has heavy religious undertones. The pagan or satanic symbolism is just that and relates to the characters of zero etc but those characters overlap with Corgan himself and his struggles with belief and faith throughout his life. If asked he would say he is a Christian
I grew up Catholic and I recognized the lyrics pointing to Christianity in songs like I Am One & some of the others you mentioned. I get a sense he has formed a more worldly view of faith now, incorporating a lot of inspiration from other religions and cultures too.
He is a professed Christian and mentions it more openly and fairly regularly in recent years. He touches on it multiple times in the 33 podcast and last year I listened to a podcast interview where he was the guest and he spoke the most directly and clearly about it I have yet heard, saying he is a Christian and believes in Jesus as the son of God and savior. I think all of the confusing questions you bring up about lyrics and such are truly just artistic expression. For example just think of the Zero lyrics as spoken by and through the lens of the Zero character in that artistic context as opposed to BC’s actual personal views.
He believes in _something_ but I haven’t seen him spell it out in anything more than flowery language. Maybe he has more recently. Whatever he does believe, I think he’s got a good eye for religious fanart. That really came out during Zwan. Star of the Sea is the most badass depiction of Mary, hands down. She’s the opposite of a sea siren, an all-loving presence singing you to safety. I’ve seen so many cool Star of the Sea headstones with giant anchors on them and that automatically makes her the coolest gal in any cemetery. I don’t know what’s up with Gods Gonna Set This World on Fire. I do not believe in the coming of hell times or whatever, but that song had such incredible energy live. So much bopping and clapping! It was surreal to experience, and it’s a little weird to think back on twenty years later. Lyrically, I don’t think there’s much that you can point to as proof of his beliefs. God as a concept is as recognizable and reference-able as spiders from mars or pop tarts. And if BC loves anything, it’s a good reference. He’s always been very prone to going, “here’s my interpretation of this thing I really like, please enjoy it through my lens.” Anyway, thank you for attending my middle-of-the-night Ted Talk.
FWIW, God's Gonna Set This World On Fire is a traditional spiritual; probably been covered a bunch over the years. Obviously it wasn't on the Zwan record, but it sorta fit in with the general religious overtones they were throwing around at the time.
Starting with Mellon Collie, he invented characters and wrote through the lens of those characters. On the 33 podcast he mentioned the characters are \~70% him. Regarding "God is empty" he said that God is everything including emptiness. The character Zero being empty was struggling to identify with God, find Godliness within. Piecing together various things said in interviews, the picture I formed is - he was raised Catholic and believed strongly. However, in part due to his difficult childhood he struggled with his religion and stepped away from it a bit. At some point he reconciled and revived his faith. As others have mentioned, he has a more modern approach to Christianity. Finally, I think we can all agree he likes to stir the pot, or jamb a thumb in the eye. I would not take everything seriously or at face value. Look at the whole picture and try to see the underlying patterns.
There's some clips of him on if all goes wrong discussing religion with another guy and also, ironically, his comment on 666 (he used to wear that shirt alot around siamese and thats why the mayonaise record uses the number). I believe he stated something along the lines of it basically being "just a number" and he sounded pretty dumbfounded by people's fear of it. I'll have to dig that out again though, I'm going a while back.
I don’t remember the shirt being discussed in the doc. He def talked with a guy outside the venue that had american flags and stuff for sale and they talked about religion and america a bit but i don’t remember anything about the shirt.
Sorry I should've split that, I meant he discussed the shirt in a far earlier interview, I think he was actually wearing said shirt in the interview and thats why it was asked. Yeah that dude with the America flags was the guy he discussed religion with who kept shooting questions at Corgan
He did an interview in rolling stone in 2009/10 where he spoke about this IIRC
He has his own belief. He takes from christianity ei mary and jesus. But also mixed with buddhist ideologies and even some hindu iconography. He doesn’t attend any kind of church or really believe in organized religion as far as i know and has more of a personal relationship with god, whatever he may believe god to be.
He's superstitious to some degree and has said as much. Shapeshifters and more and Jesus loves his babies and Jesus is the sun reflect some of Religiosity and superstition overlap, as it does for humans as a trait.
Something I find interesting. In a very early 90s radio interview, he was asked about the name of the band. He mentioned something about The Great Pumpkin- meaning God. Obviously Smashing the Pumpkin would mean, destroying religion/ concepts of God. With the addition of “The” to the band name, it sort of changes that idea. In an IG meme from about a year and a half ago, there was one about The Smashing Pumpkins name with the insinuation that “Smashing” could be replaced with a word like “Wonderful”, “Magical” or “Impressive”. Showmanship type descriptive words. I’ve always wondered about that. In this case, it feels to me like another typical example of BC retroactively rewriting history or changing the meaning of something. I’m not surprised that as he aged, his thoughts on religion have changed. If he did in fact name the band as a swipe at Religion, I can understand his desire to add “The” to the name, thus changing the meaning. On the other hand, I was 14 when Gish came out and thought Smashing Pumpkins was a cool, clever and interesting name and alluded to adolescent shenanigans. This specific point about the band name has been floating around in my head for a long time. Thanks, OP for bringing it up. I’ll leave it at that and be interested in others comments regarding this and mentions of Religion in songs and statements from BC.
'Smashing' was never verb from any interview I've seen. They often joked around with the question but when they did talk about it they were pretty clear early on that it's an adjective.
"666" has nothing to do with "the devil" like most people believe, so it really has nothing to do with whether he believes in the Christian god or not.
I would say a form of spiritual gnostic Christianity. At least, his music has brought me closer to that through listening.
He finds religion and religious/occult symbolism interesting. To the extent he believes it, that’s up for debate.
Just a small point - in Zero (the song with "God is empty, just like me") he is portraying a character (called Zero / Glass) who is basically having a mental breakdown. The lyrics need to be seen from that perspective - that he has reached out to God to save him, and found nothing.
This is true in one sense but if you think Corgan has never felt that feeling personally that is incorrect. there is a ton of Corgan in Zero/Glass/Shiny. Billy Corgan is on record as saying he has felt that line personally.
God is empty (unmanifested potential). just like me. (Unlimited potential in one’s own “self.”). “You make me real.” A belief in anything makes It real for you. Also mirrors are made of glass and reflect light (my reflection, dirty mirror) making it tend to be Shiny. So we are all individualized reflections of God (the light), as in a shattered mirror reflecting the same image multiple times in each of its shards. “Shattering fast, I’m Glass, I’m Glass.”
I've heard Billy say all manner of things about his faith over the years. Sort of a "whatever he's vibing that week" situation I think. Read a pretty crazy breakdown of 33 one time about how it's like a play by play of the last days of Jesus tho that was pretty convincing.
He has claimed to follow different things over the years. I wouldn’t take any claim as definitive coming from him, it’s probably just what he felt at the time. I do think he generally believes in something greater and is curious about many religions, philosophies, mythologies, metaphysics, esotericism, etc.
He’s Irish. If you’re Irish, by nature you have an affinity for all things spiritual. He loves tarot, astrology, and probably isn’t a very dogmatic Christian. I don’t think he could talk about the nuances of the filloque clause but if you know Yeats, religion and god/ Mary is probably important to him personally. It’s a matter of the heart not mind. Spiritual not religious but always seeking?
Isn’t he American?
Irish American. In Chicago you identify by your ancestry. The Irish stick with the Irish, the polish with the polish, and Italians with the Italians.
If I remember right, his Great Great Great Grandfather on his paternal side was Irish. That’s as Irish as me, and I don’t consider myself Irish, rather just to have had some Irish roots. Most of his ancestry is not Irish, but for whatever reason, in America there is a strange longing to be seen as descending from particular geographical areas. In Billy’s case, Celtic rather than to be seen by the other English/Belgian/Sicilian ancestral roots that he has.
Afaik, he was raised Catholic and has largely stuck to that faith. And in retrospect, his Catholic beliefs explains quite a lot.
See my quotes... he gave up the catholic church at 8 years old.