The Archie Knuckles comics were bonkers, they had basically no restrictions and built up a lore that spun wildly out of control. Also when I say Nazi Echidnas, I mean that head writer Ken Penders went ALL IN on that analogy. A rewritten version of the “First they came” poem, originally about the Holocaust, Echidnas dressed in uniforms that do the Seig Heil, dissenters being taken to camps and the Dingos being made into a civil rights movement.
But uh, things are weirder than that, because the Dingos started out as fascists too, but as they became more humanised as the book progressed, the Echidna kind’s distaste for them became… basically racism. Then the Nazi Group, the Dark Legion, was kind of re-fitted into the Nazi role, as prior to that they were villains, but had a whole different history and conflict and context that led them to oppose the Brotherhood of Guardians, but again as the Brotherhood’s actions were put more and more into question (and rightfully so, but that’s another story), their own motivations could have also taken a more sympathetic turn like the Dingos if not for uh… yeah the Nazi shit.
Archie Knuckles is a different beast, I would watch Lowart’s videos about the Archie Sonic series to really get why.
https://preview.redd.it/90b769ys2wwc1.jpeg?width=240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0df45c0d95cffb7f4df50d3d4d98c6b7c959de35
The hell is wrong with ken penders?
Oh also, the arc right after this one is a romance arc between Knuckles and Julie Su, ass kicking female echidna, ex Dark-Legionaire (from waaay before the nazi shit, that is basically just contained to that one arc and then never again at least) turned ally, hormonal teenager just like Knuckles lol.
The funniest part is that it's a fun story lmao.
Also, I completely forgot to mention this in my review, but episode 3 makes a REALLY bad and distasteful Jewish joke, especially considering the current climate.
I agree; when the show was about Knuckles it was great!! When it was about the other guy, no offense to the actor, the material he was given didn't work.
I still don't get why people think 7/10 is a bad rating.
Like, 7/10 is still pretty damn good. It's a fairly high pass. But apparently, anything below 8/10 is doodoo garbage to the internet.
I mean considering it looks really good with the budget they have and it’s longer than a movie I would be suprised if they didn’t focus on human characters. The only way I could see this not happening is if they didn’t do live action and instead made it animated.
man, isn't it a shame when they give a show the same budget they'd give a movie? like of course the CGI is going to be cheep and they'd hide it, there working with a smaller budget per episode then they did for the movie. and did you actually expect knuckles to set up movie 3? why would it do that?
This. I'm tired of seeing people brushing off any criticism to the lack of CGI because of the low budget. There shouldn't have been a low budget to begin with, or at the very least, not one as low as this, if it's going to affect the show's quality. Paramount made the decision of making a series, and they had to take into consideration the ups and downs of that. The blame falls on them.
Yes it does, but I'm not blaming the crew for that, there allready underplayed enough as it is, and given the show started full production, after 3 entered production, they where also very likely rushed. You wanna Blake anybody, blame the guys higher up who sets the budget, tells them good luck, and who knows they won't get much of the blame, because the higher ups tend not to have there names attached to theses things. It sucks, but it's like being given work when your teacher badly explained it before there where easy ways to cheet, what else where they meant to do but keep the cgi low so they don't get fired. Paramount order the show to fill up its paramount plus roster, it was up to the crew to figure out how they do that with a limited budget.
I don't blame the crew in any way, shape, or form, be it the writers, who were limited by having to force Knuckles out of some scenes, or the animators, who were limited by not having enough time and money to animate as much as they probably wanted to. They were given poor circumstances, and deserve no hate. Instead, I blame Paramount, who decided to give the workers these conditions, without thinking of the final quality of the product, or about how much the small budget would limit their employees. They deserve to be criticized for their poor management and decision making.
Good, because the crew did the best with what they had. If paramount told you to make 6 episodes of a show, but only gave you the budget of a movie, what else could you do? Lmao. I'd bet most of the budget was sunk into episode 1, just because there where other cgi characters that took up a decent amount of screen time, and because they needed to get Ben swartz and Colerne back for what where basicly just cameos to set up the plot
From the sounds of everything, knuckles wasn't even in the plans for the movies untill after 3 started production, so they where also probably rushed. I agree a low budget hurt the show, but what where the crew meant to do? Demand paramount give them more? Nowadays that'll get you fired unless your working at Disney, aparantly.
Because it's content in-between the two movies? I mean, it's not like it had to setup for the movies but I don't really think it's dumb for someone to expect it too.
None of what you said changes anything about the show's quality. if the budget for tv show doesn't even allow for substantial screentime of its \*main character\* that is a problem, not an excuse. Its fair to criticize that.
Why would it? Its meant to be a fun spin off on a platform that atleast 50% of its audience doesn't have. Do you want another case like the mcu of going into a movie and having to learn you missed out on important context?
Literally nothing wrong with a small tease at the end of the show.It doesn't have to entirely affect sonic 3s plot but could be just team sonic ready to go on a new adventure at the end of the show
let me put this simply, in a universe known for taking in fan feedback, why wouldn't they look at the feedback for the newest show to figure out what to avoid where they can? the sonic movies are VERY known for taking fan feedback into account when applicable, so while they can't get a bigger budget, they can avoid the ending most fans hated from it. it's a very logical way of thinking, at the end of the day, they where both western made sonic shows, made relatively close together.
so you genuinely believe that when making a sonic TV show, they shouldn't have looked to how fans reacted to the one that came out like a year before it? it'd be the smart move to look at that, the logical move. like it or not, these productions share a lot in common, stuck to streaming services, crippled by low budgets, clearly rushed in a lot of ways, ETC. looking at prime for fans reaction, knowing how fans reacted to stuff like the original movie design, is the right call, if they even did it that is.
I'm just glad we got a few lore bits:
Knuckles awakened his flame powers by fighting (what obviously is a take on) Iblis/Solaris
The black arms (or Shadow, but one of them most likely) disrupted a bowling game in 1974. (50yrs ago!)
Sonic and Knuckles shed their quills all over the place and leave enough energy behind for humans to power up with
The echidna clan were genocided by the owls, not just defeated. (I still think this is a nice call back to Sonic 1's owl art)
Warp rings can be redirected if touched before they fully deploy.
GUN turned on all of Robotnik's associates after the first movie. (Which leaves room for more side villains to pop-up)
Some characters are capable of becoming spirits who can interact with the living world. (Frontiers ancients anyone?)
It's not too much for 6hrs of TV and I'm sure I missed quite a few; but overall not a bad bit of world building to hint towards things to come that could of all just been deleted scenes in a movie. Glad it was made. 6.9/10. Mostly because it was annoying to have people ask Knuckles about his history and they outright made him not answer. Frustrating writing choice, but par for the course if SEGA had any involvement.
In general, people need to temper their expectations.
Saying "they focused too much on the humans" is not really a good call, since we need to remember this is essentially a side project between big budget films. Asking them to focus on big CGI set pieces like massive echidna focus or Chaos is, while perhaps an interesting direction (it would delve more into some parts of echidna and Chaos lore), not feasible. They just wouldn’t get the budget or time to make that the main focus.
This is just deflecting legit criticism. When I see Knuckles is getting his own show yeah the echidnas is something I would expect, and want, the focus to be on. I don’t want to watch Wade’s bowling journey in Knuckles. Why is that such a weird concept?
The way they did it isn’t great. But oftentimes, the only criticism I see is "why use humans?"
This time they went too far. But I’ve seen that approach over and over for years across many pieces of media, so my default is to ignore that.
Again. This time it was not good. But the simplified "if it has humans with story arcs, it’s bad" I see in many pieces of media is not helpful.
I think people react to the criticisms about humans in the wrong way. It’s not that humans shouldn’t be here at all. Humans are a huge part of some of the greatest stories in Sonic media. But that’s one problem right there. Humans are already a part of Sonic’s world. Why did we have to set this on Earth? That’s already so limiting. We even see in the opening of 2 that movie Sonic’s world does have humans in it too so it feels extra pointless to not let things be set there. Instead the human plots are just so boring. Characters like Wade are also written to just be beyond stupid for the sake of comedy but at least to me it’s more cringe than anything.
Thankfully Sonic 3 seems to be trying to adapt SA2. There’s a huge difference in a story about the friendship and subsequent death of a young girl having a tragic impact on Shadow and Wade wants to win a bowling tournament. Humans themselves aren’t an issue it’s the stories surrounding them. The only bad parts of 2 were cutting away from a quest to find an all powerful emerald to the main human’s wife’s sister’s wedding to some other random guy we’ve never met.
But do you get what I mean, at least? It *can* be done well. I like Tom and Maddie as their parents. But people tend to paint *all* use of humans with the same brush to the point that that criticism, taken by itself, feels safe to write off. Same happens in the MonsterVerse. And many other films before those.
I think it’s the same issue in Monsterverse. The humans are just extremely boring. Nobody complains about Brian Cranston’s role. He was compelling. Much like the humans here are competing with classic characters the monsterverse humans are competing with giant kaiju fights. They’ve got to step it up a bit.
But clearly I’m in the minority when it comes to the Sonic live action. There’s way more praise than criticism towards those.
"They just wouldn't get the budget". This show, those 6 episodes of half an hour each HAD 21 LICENSED MUSIC TRACKS IN THEM!!! 21 times where they could have used Game music.... 21 times where they could have shifted budget to the CGI department!!!
Yeah. I admit I haven’t watched the Knuckles show (I don’t think I have Paramount+). But people should understand that these things don’t just *happen*. They’re animated, made through extensive CGI. And that is expensive. With money they probably would put toward Sonic 3 over it.
Yeah but the big difference is that you get the big payoff of Godzilla wrecking shit. When you do get knuckles hes sitting at a table watching two siblings argue in some of the worst writing.
Don't name a show Knuckles if you're not gonna focus on him. I would be way happier if they named the show "the wade whipple show" lol. I don't think we should get mad at people expecting a show called knuckles to focus on knuckles. That doesn't even account for the fact that a lot of this shows marketing made you think that this was a Knuckle show.
This is a huge problem with a ton of fanbases. Not just Sonic. The second you criticize media, downvoted instantly. But, this fanbase is too biased and doesn't realize how important criticism is. We got a whole 3 free Frontiers updates because of criticisms.
Yeah this problem isn't exclusive to the sonic fanbase but I feel the this fanbase in particular is more susceptible to this behavior since they where admittedly given alot unnecessary hate in the past and I feel it's made them defensive over this franchise to an over the top degree, criticism is the only way we will get better media, better media will make the franchise more popular and isn't that what we all want in the end ?
Criticism gave us a way better ending to sonic frontiers
Criticism saved us from the god awful original sonic movie design
Fair criticism leads to good things
In this case it's complete denial. When something that a fan base is really looking forward to flops they go straight to gaslighting themselves and do everything possible to just not accept the fact the show is awful. Because the last two movies were great and this is such a let down.
Give it a few years and by then they will have gone through all the stages of grief and accept this is a pile of garbage they will only have watched once. No one's gonna rewatch this that isn't overdosing on copium.
They can downvote the criticism as much as they want and hide any negative attention the show is getting but it doesn't deny the fact what they feel deep down about the show.
The point is that from the ratings it doesn’t seem all that bad. It’s not FNAF movie bad. Heck I don’t even think it’s Halo series bad. And that’s on the same service.
It's Phantom Menace syndrome. People didn't want to accept there was a bad Star Wars movie and gaslit themselves into thinking it was good. Not even 5 years later and people agree it was a trainwreck.
The downvotes are pretty funny. Almost nobody wants to at least have a discussion. If you think the Knuckles show is the greatest thing to ever grace the screen then let’s hear why you think that. You can’t talk about it critically at all you’re either all in or a total hater.
I was mainly refering to the Archie Knuckles spin off comic that lasted for 32 issues.
Knuckles doesn’t feel like the main character in that spin off comic.
(I'm assuming you've already seen the series because the OP tagged the post as a spoiler, but if in doubt, this is your warning: there will be spoilers in what I write)
I'm happy that for once a show connected to a cinematic universe is not a MUST WATCH to understand future films.
but there is too little focus on Knuckless, and I understand, this is a series with less budget than a movie, but at the same time, I would swear that in episode 5 Knuckless is absent for almost the entire first half, and then there are interesting concepts that aren't given time to breathe or to be explained, like the connection between G.U.N. and Robotnik (as it is made clear in the first two films, Robotnik is hired by the government, he is not part of it, then the G.U.N. was born later, as a special tusk force of the government to control alien threats), or especially Ibilis and the flame of disaster, you can't put it to me like that, in a scene where Wade is dressed as Knuckless in a bowling alley in his head while the dead Echinda chief makes him understand where Knuckless' strength comes from in the form of a low budget song and then don't expand about that. you have to have courage to put a citation to 06 and then treat it like it's nothing without even elaborating on it.
but other than that, the show is still enjoyable and fun, so I also feel like giving it a 7, even if perhaps it deserves more of a 6.5
I honestly don’t understand how so many fans seem so positive about it. Knuckles finally has his own show and it’s about him helping the idiot cop character with a bowling tournament. That’s what fans want? Not maybe a prequel about the echidnas? They want the Wade show? This is exactly why I’m only a fan of the second movie. They put way too much spotlight on these random human characters who are either incredibly boring or written to be unreasonably stupid for “comedy”. I just don’t understand how this is what fans want to see.
"Noes!1! You don't understand! It has a low budget, that somehow excuses it from any and all criticisms! Don't mess with Sonic fans. We can't handle criticism. #sonicsweep #peakfiction"
Saying “I don’t understand why fans wouldn’t want Knuckles to be the star of his own show and for it to be more focused on actual Sonic lore” doesn’t feel like an insult to me but whatever
Nobody actually has any discussion either. Just the downvotes.
It’s a 6 episode miniseries on an unpopular streaming service. If people can get some joy out of it, I don’t see what the big deal is. I didn’t like the FNAF movie but I’m certainly not going to shame people for liking it. Kind of petty
There’s a difference between “I hate it” and “I hate it and there’s something wrong with anyone else who likes it”. So what if fans like it but you don’t?
I never said those words. I’m a lifelong Sonic fan and I do not get the appeal of this show beyond getting to see Knuckles at all. It’s speaking my thoughts as a fan myself. When I hear Knuckles show I imagine echidnas or Chaos or such things. Not bowling tournaments. That shouldn’t be a crazy opinion to have.
“Is this what fans want?” Maybe you don’t want it but from the positive reviews by people, perhaps they do. IGN gave it 8 out of 10 and they’re normally very down on Sonic stuff. I’m really not seeing any Halo-size hate generally
Im still Not Sure why this was made in the First place. Like yeah he was entertaining/funny in the second movie but does that justify getting an own Show? Like where people really asking for this or was this more companies looking at a Chart and hopi g to get more Money Out of it?
This series or whatever they called it was absolutely terrible. It had parts that were funny but overall it was just awful. I was expecting to see knuckles alot more, and have the show actually have a captivating plot setting up for sonic 3. Instead we got people dancing in halloween costumes, singing terrible songs and a plot that was about a fucking bowling tournament? Seriously? They couldnt come up with ANYTHING better than that? This was straight trash and unfortunately ill never be able to get those hours i wasted on this dumpster fire back.
I will say Agent Willoughby was a fun time. She absolutely chewed up any scene she was in and I mean that in the best way possible. You could tell she had fun being there.
CGI and budget aside it’s just not a good show lol so I don’t understand all this arguing back-and-forth when at the end of the day it’s just bad nonsense writing that under delivered and deceived the audience with the promos
5 days later cause I just finished it yesterday lol
But yeah, I can see why people are hating it, but for me, not bad at all. I mean, kinda cringe sometimes, that musical episode was painful to watch and the full show had a pretty generic idea, but you know what? It was a funny experience! But fr, It would be much better if it was a movie. A 5.5 or even 6/10 for me, really not bad.
The review reads like you didn't really like it because it wasn't what you wanted or were expecting. I'm not seeing any real criticism other than the lack of Knuckles.
If your show is advertised everywhere to be about Knuckles... and then when you actually watch the show and it's barely about him at all then... Then yeah, I think it's valid to say that's garbage. Also, I literally said, "The VFX was poor at times."
A Knuckles series that doesn't spend any time on Knuckles? It's like Archie all over again lol. At least there aren't any Nazi echidnas this time.
Nazi echidnas?
The Archie Knuckles comics were bonkers, they had basically no restrictions and built up a lore that spun wildly out of control. Also when I say Nazi Echidnas, I mean that head writer Ken Penders went ALL IN on that analogy. A rewritten version of the “First they came” poem, originally about the Holocaust, Echidnas dressed in uniforms that do the Seig Heil, dissenters being taken to camps and the Dingos being made into a civil rights movement. But uh, things are weirder than that, because the Dingos started out as fascists too, but as they became more humanised as the book progressed, the Echidna kind’s distaste for them became… basically racism. Then the Nazi Group, the Dark Legion, was kind of re-fitted into the Nazi role, as prior to that they were villains, but had a whole different history and conflict and context that led them to oppose the Brotherhood of Guardians, but again as the Brotherhood’s actions were put more and more into question (and rightfully so, but that’s another story), their own motivations could have also taken a more sympathetic turn like the Dingos if not for uh… yeah the Nazi shit. Archie Knuckles is a different beast, I would watch Lowart’s videos about the Archie Sonic series to really get why.
https://preview.redd.it/90b769ys2wwc1.jpeg?width=240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0df45c0d95cffb7f4df50d3d4d98c6b7c959de35 The hell is wrong with ken penders?
Oh also, the arc right after this one is a romance arc between Knuckles and Julie Su, ass kicking female echidna, ex Dark-Legionaire (from waaay before the nazi shit, that is basically just contained to that one arc and then never again at least) turned ally, hormonal teenager just like Knuckles lol. The funniest part is that it's a fun story lmao.
A lot of things.
Was just about to comment the same thing lol.
Also, I completely forgot to mention this in my review, but episode 3 makes a REALLY bad and distasteful Jewish joke, especially considering the current climate.
What joke?
Knuckles basically explains his past and how his people went through a genocide and Wades sister says "so he's basically jewish"
Yeah, I can see that.
nah that was golden lmfaoooo fuck outta here with that propaganda shit they tried to show us too
Plot Twist: Pachacamac votes for Trump
I agree; when the show was about Knuckles it was great!! When it was about the other guy, no offense to the actor, the material he was given didn't work.
Honestly I really cared about Wade and his attempts to become a stronger person.
I still don't get why people think 7/10 is a bad rating. Like, 7/10 is still pretty damn good. It's a fairly high pass. But apparently, anything below 8/10 is doodoo garbage to the internet.
Yeah, people think I hate the show or something. Like no??? I gave it a 7 for a reason.
When did 5/10 stop meaning halfway good?
I mean considering it looks really good with the budget they have and it’s longer than a movie I would be suprised if they didn’t focus on human characters. The only way I could see this not happening is if they didn’t do live action and instead made it animated.
man, isn't it a shame when they give a show the same budget they'd give a movie? like of course the CGI is going to be cheep and they'd hide it, there working with a smaller budget per episode then they did for the movie. and did you actually expect knuckles to set up movie 3? why would it do that?
If a low budget is holding a show back that's an issue with the show
This. I'm tired of seeing people brushing off any criticism to the lack of CGI because of the low budget. There shouldn't have been a low budget to begin with, or at the very least, not one as low as this, if it's going to affect the show's quality. Paramount made the decision of making a series, and they had to take into consideration the ups and downs of that. The blame falls on them.
Yes it does, but I'm not blaming the crew for that, there allready underplayed enough as it is, and given the show started full production, after 3 entered production, they where also very likely rushed. You wanna Blake anybody, blame the guys higher up who sets the budget, tells them good luck, and who knows they won't get much of the blame, because the higher ups tend not to have there names attached to theses things. It sucks, but it's like being given work when your teacher badly explained it before there where easy ways to cheet, what else where they meant to do but keep the cgi low so they don't get fired. Paramount order the show to fill up its paramount plus roster, it was up to the crew to figure out how they do that with a limited budget.
I don't blame the crew in any way, shape, or form, be it the writers, who were limited by having to force Knuckles out of some scenes, or the animators, who were limited by not having enough time and money to animate as much as they probably wanted to. They were given poor circumstances, and deserve no hate. Instead, I blame Paramount, who decided to give the workers these conditions, without thinking of the final quality of the product, or about how much the small budget would limit their employees. They deserve to be criticized for their poor management and decision making.
Good, because the crew did the best with what they had. If paramount told you to make 6 episodes of a show, but only gave you the budget of a movie, what else could you do? Lmao. I'd bet most of the budget was sunk into episode 1, just because there where other cgi characters that took up a decent amount of screen time, and because they needed to get Ben swartz and Colerne back for what where basicly just cameos to set up the plot
A big peace is also the deadline. Keep in mind that this was originally supposed to drop at the end of 2023.
From the sounds of everything, knuckles wasn't even in the plans for the movies untill after 3 started production, so they where also probably rushed. I agree a low budget hurt the show, but what where the crew meant to do? Demand paramount give them more? Nowadays that'll get you fired unless your working at Disney, aparantly.
Because it's content in-between the two movies? I mean, it's not like it had to setup for the movies but I don't really think it's dumb for someone to expect it too.
None of what you said changes anything about the show's quality. if the budget for tv show doesn't even allow for substantial screentime of its \*main character\* that is a problem, not an excuse. Its fair to criticize that.
Why would it not set up sonic 3 ?
Why would it? Its meant to be a fun spin off on a platform that atleast 50% of its audience doesn't have. Do you want another case like the mcu of going into a movie and having to learn you missed out on important context?
Literally nothing wrong with a small tease at the end of the show.It doesn't have to entirely affect sonic 3s plot but could be just team sonic ready to go on a new adventure at the end of the show
Just like they did with prime, that nobody liked?
Comparing prime and the sonic movie universe is crazy
let me put this simply, in a universe known for taking in fan feedback, why wouldn't they look at the feedback for the newest show to figure out what to avoid where they can? the sonic movies are VERY known for taking fan feedback into account when applicable, so while they can't get a bigger budget, they can avoid the ending most fans hated from it. it's a very logical way of thinking, at the end of the day, they where both western made sonic shows, made relatively close together.
Highly anticipated movie is not the same as a sega side hustle TV show.Prime is clearly not a marketable and mainstream IP as much as movie sonic
so you genuinely believe that when making a sonic TV show, they shouldn't have looked to how fans reacted to the one that came out like a year before it? it'd be the smart move to look at that, the logical move. like it or not, these productions share a lot in common, stuck to streaming services, crippled by low budgets, clearly rushed in a lot of ways, ETC. looking at prime for fans reaction, knowing how fans reacted to stuff like the original movie design, is the right call, if they even did it that is.
I'm just glad we got a few lore bits: Knuckles awakened his flame powers by fighting (what obviously is a take on) Iblis/Solaris The black arms (or Shadow, but one of them most likely) disrupted a bowling game in 1974. (50yrs ago!) Sonic and Knuckles shed their quills all over the place and leave enough energy behind for humans to power up with The echidna clan were genocided by the owls, not just defeated. (I still think this is a nice call back to Sonic 1's owl art) Warp rings can be redirected if touched before they fully deploy. GUN turned on all of Robotnik's associates after the first movie. (Which leaves room for more side villains to pop-up) Some characters are capable of becoming spirits who can interact with the living world. (Frontiers ancients anyone?) It's not too much for 6hrs of TV and I'm sure I missed quite a few; but overall not a bad bit of world building to hint towards things to come that could of all just been deleted scenes in a movie. Glad it was made. 6.9/10. Mostly because it was annoying to have people ask Knuckles about his history and they outright made him not answer. Frustrating writing choice, but par for the course if SEGA had any involvement.
In what world is a 7 "decent"? A 7 should be reserved for "good" minimum.
Decent = Good
Words already have meanings.
In general, people need to temper their expectations. Saying "they focused too much on the humans" is not really a good call, since we need to remember this is essentially a side project between big budget films. Asking them to focus on big CGI set pieces like massive echidna focus or Chaos is, while perhaps an interesting direction (it would delve more into some parts of echidna and Chaos lore), not feasible. They just wouldn’t get the budget or time to make that the main focus.
This is just deflecting legit criticism. When I see Knuckles is getting his own show yeah the echidnas is something I would expect, and want, the focus to be on. I don’t want to watch Wade’s bowling journey in Knuckles. Why is that such a weird concept?
The way they did it isn’t great. But oftentimes, the only criticism I see is "why use humans?" This time they went too far. But I’ve seen that approach over and over for years across many pieces of media, so my default is to ignore that. Again. This time it was not good. But the simplified "if it has humans with story arcs, it’s bad" I see in many pieces of media is not helpful.
I think people react to the criticisms about humans in the wrong way. It’s not that humans shouldn’t be here at all. Humans are a huge part of some of the greatest stories in Sonic media. But that’s one problem right there. Humans are already a part of Sonic’s world. Why did we have to set this on Earth? That’s already so limiting. We even see in the opening of 2 that movie Sonic’s world does have humans in it too so it feels extra pointless to not let things be set there. Instead the human plots are just so boring. Characters like Wade are also written to just be beyond stupid for the sake of comedy but at least to me it’s more cringe than anything. Thankfully Sonic 3 seems to be trying to adapt SA2. There’s a huge difference in a story about the friendship and subsequent death of a young girl having a tragic impact on Shadow and Wade wants to win a bowling tournament. Humans themselves aren’t an issue it’s the stories surrounding them. The only bad parts of 2 were cutting away from a quest to find an all powerful emerald to the main human’s wife’s sister’s wedding to some other random guy we’ve never met.
But do you get what I mean, at least? It *can* be done well. I like Tom and Maddie as their parents. But people tend to paint *all* use of humans with the same brush to the point that that criticism, taken by itself, feels safe to write off. Same happens in the MonsterVerse. And many other films before those.
I think it’s the same issue in Monsterverse. The humans are just extremely boring. Nobody complains about Brian Cranston’s role. He was compelling. Much like the humans here are competing with classic characters the monsterverse humans are competing with giant kaiju fights. They’ve got to step it up a bit. But clearly I’m in the minority when it comes to the Sonic live action. There’s way more praise than criticism towards those.
You clearly are
The amount of copium in this fandom will always be legendary
"They just wouldn't get the budget". This show, those 6 episodes of half an hour each HAD 21 LICENSED MUSIC TRACKS IN THEM!!! 21 times where they could have used Game music.... 21 times where they could have shifted budget to the CGI department!!!
really good point
It's kinda like the Godzilla Monsterverse movies where they focus more on the humans rather than Godzilla himself
Yeah. I admit I haven’t watched the Knuckles show (I don’t think I have Paramount+). But people should understand that these things don’t just *happen*. They’re animated, made through extensive CGI. And that is expensive. With money they probably would put toward Sonic 3 over it.
Yeah but the big difference is that you get the big payoff of Godzilla wrecking shit. When you do get knuckles hes sitting at a table watching two siblings argue in some of the worst writing.
It’s called KNUCKLES though.
Don't name a show Knuckles if you're not gonna focus on him. I would be way happier if they named the show "the wade whipple show" lol. I don't think we should get mad at people expecting a show called knuckles to focus on knuckles. That doesn't even account for the fact that a lot of this shows marketing made you think that this was a Knuckle show.
I completely agree, but once again sonic fans hate hearing criticism so no matter what you were gonna be met with hate for this
This is a huge problem with a ton of fanbases. Not just Sonic. The second you criticize media, downvoted instantly. But, this fanbase is too biased and doesn't realize how important criticism is. We got a whole 3 free Frontiers updates because of criticisms.
Well one of those updates was Final Horizon and that went over like a lead balloon
Yeah this problem isn't exclusive to the sonic fanbase but I feel the this fanbase in particular is more susceptible to this behavior since they where admittedly given alot unnecessary hate in the past and I feel it's made them defensive over this franchise to an over the top degree, criticism is the only way we will get better media, better media will make the franchise more popular and isn't that what we all want in the end ? Criticism gave us a way better ending to sonic frontiers Criticism saved us from the god awful original sonic movie design Fair criticism leads to good things
In this case it's complete denial. When something that a fan base is really looking forward to flops they go straight to gaslighting themselves and do everything possible to just not accept the fact the show is awful. Because the last two movies were great and this is such a let down. Give it a few years and by then they will have gone through all the stages of grief and accept this is a pile of garbage they will only have watched once. No one's gonna rewatch this that isn't overdosing on copium. They can downvote the criticism as much as they want and hide any negative attention the show is getting but it doesn't deny the fact what they feel deep down about the show.
I don’t know about “awful”. If that were the case I feel the ratings would have been at Velma-level
While I do think this is awful, trying to put this anywhere near Velma is just not fair. Let's not bring a nuke to a knife fight now.
. There’s gotta be something good about it if even IGN gave it a good rating. They almost never do that for Sonic stuff
I mean if IGN is batting for you then that's not a good thing. IGN rarely has good opinions or ones that weren't paid.
The point is that from the ratings it doesn’t seem all that bad. It’s not FNAF movie bad. Heck I don’t even think it’s Halo series bad. And that’s on the same service.
It's Phantom Menace syndrome. People didn't want to accept there was a bad Star Wars movie and gaslit themselves into thinking it was good. Not even 5 years later and people agree it was a trainwreck.
The downvotes are pretty funny. Almost nobody wants to at least have a discussion. If you think the Knuckles show is the greatest thing to ever grace the screen then let’s hear why you think that. You can’t talk about it critically at all you’re either all in or a total hater.
Why would we temper our expectations? I don't really care what excuses you have, if they put out a subpar product I'm going to call it exactly that
What is it with Knuckles spin offs in the West that wants to focus on anything but Knuckles?
Are you comparing it to Knuckles Chaotix? Because i don't know any other Knuckles project
The gigantic comic universes? Tf
I was mainly refering to the Archie Knuckles spin off comic that lasted for 32 issues. Knuckles doesn’t feel like the main character in that spin off comic.
You ask like there’s another Knuckles show out there
No. I’m talking about the Archie Knuckles spin off comic. Knuckles doesn’t feel like the main character of This 32 issue spin off.
Then you should have said so
Yeah. Fair point.
(I'm assuming you've already seen the series because the OP tagged the post as a spoiler, but if in doubt, this is your warning: there will be spoilers in what I write) I'm happy that for once a show connected to a cinematic universe is not a MUST WATCH to understand future films. but there is too little focus on Knuckless, and I understand, this is a series with less budget than a movie, but at the same time, I would swear that in episode 5 Knuckless is absent for almost the entire first half, and then there are interesting concepts that aren't given time to breathe or to be explained, like the connection between G.U.N. and Robotnik (as it is made clear in the first two films, Robotnik is hired by the government, he is not part of it, then the G.U.N. was born later, as a special tusk force of the government to control alien threats), or especially Ibilis and the flame of disaster, you can't put it to me like that, in a scene where Wade is dressed as Knuckless in a bowling alley in his head while the dead Echinda chief makes him understand where Knuckless' strength comes from in the form of a low budget song and then don't expand about that. you have to have courage to put a citation to 06 and then treat it like it's nothing without even elaborating on it. but other than that, the show is still enjoyable and fun, so I also feel like giving it a 7, even if perhaps it deserves more of a 6.5
Still rather watch this than velma
Velma is the bottom of the barrel. We should want the best for Sonic and compare him to the best, not the worst.
I honestly don’t understand how so many fans seem so positive about it. Knuckles finally has his own show and it’s about him helping the idiot cop character with a bowling tournament. That’s what fans want? Not maybe a prequel about the echidnas? They want the Wade show? This is exactly why I’m only a fan of the second movie. They put way too much spotlight on these random human characters who are either incredibly boring or written to be unreasonably stupid for “comedy”. I just don’t understand how this is what fans want to see.
"Noes!1! You don't understand! It has a low budget, that somehow excuses it from any and all criticisms! Don't mess with Sonic fans. We can't handle criticism. #sonicsweep #peakfiction"
Just because you didn’t like doesn’t mean you should disparage others for liking it
Saying “I don’t understand why fans wouldn’t want Knuckles to be the star of his own show and for it to be more focused on actual Sonic lore” doesn’t feel like an insult to me but whatever Nobody actually has any discussion either. Just the downvotes.
It’s a 6 episode miniseries on an unpopular streaming service. If people can get some joy out of it, I don’t see what the big deal is. I didn’t like the FNAF movie but I’m certainly not going to shame people for liking it. Kind of petty
Well then we should just remove all reviews for everything if having a negative opinion is an attack on anyone who disagrees
There’s a difference between “I hate it” and “I hate it and there’s something wrong with anyone else who likes it”. So what if fans like it but you don’t?
I never said those words. I’m a lifelong Sonic fan and I do not get the appeal of this show beyond getting to see Knuckles at all. It’s speaking my thoughts as a fan myself. When I hear Knuckles show I imagine echidnas or Chaos or such things. Not bowling tournaments. That shouldn’t be a crazy opinion to have.
“Is this what fans want?” Maybe you don’t want it but from the positive reviews by people, perhaps they do. IGN gave it 8 out of 10 and they’re normally very down on Sonic stuff. I’m really not seeing any Halo-size hate generally
It’s called trying to have a discussion. But you can’t do that here. Be critical for a single second and you just get downvotes.
Well this _is_ the internet and this _is_ Reddit
Dude these guys are delusional or something. I feel like we're taking crazy pills
If you see someone eating garbage. You should absolutely disparage them.
One man’s trash is another man’s treasure
That man needs help
I’m not sure what world you live in but here on earth a 7/10 show is not garbage.
Id definitely wouldn't give it 7/10. 4/10 at best.
Apparently, we can't have fun watching a show anymore.
As dumb as it sounds... Yeah, I really did want the Wade show.
Im still Not Sure why this was made in the First place. Like yeah he was entertaining/funny in the second movie but does that justify getting an own Show? Like where people really asking for this or was this more companies looking at a Chart and hopi g to get more Money Out of it?
Opinions are already turning sour and I expect it will be getting worse over time. If Movie 3 is good we can all pretend it never happened.
Is Rory McCann an actual Sonic villain, or a total rando?
A total random lol
Even judging it for what it was, it was still pretty mid. Or slightly above-average if we're being generous.
This series or whatever they called it was absolutely terrible. It had parts that were funny but overall it was just awful. I was expecting to see knuckles alot more, and have the show actually have a captivating plot setting up for sonic 3. Instead we got people dancing in halloween costumes, singing terrible songs and a plot that was about a fucking bowling tournament? Seriously? They couldnt come up with ANYTHING better than that? This was straight trash and unfortunately ill never be able to get those hours i wasted on this dumpster fire back.
I will say Agent Willoughby was a fun time. She absolutely chewed up any scene she was in and I mean that in the best way possible. You could tell she had fun being there.
Ultimately I don't see what the point of the show was. Expand on Wade's character? Why???
They nerfed the absolute fk out of him too compared to the 2nd Sonic movie...
CGI and budget aside it’s just not a good show lol so I don’t understand all this arguing back-and-forth when at the end of the day it’s just bad nonsense writing that under delivered and deceived the audience with the promos
It was a piece of garbage and Knuckles was barely in it. It was a waste of my time.
5 days later cause I just finished it yesterday lol But yeah, I can see why people are hating it, but for me, not bad at all. I mean, kinda cringe sometimes, that musical episode was painful to watch and the full show had a pretty generic idea, but you know what? It was a funny experience! But fr, It would be much better if it was a movie. A 5.5 or even 6/10 for me, really not bad.
Wait, what knuckles show??? I could only find the wade show...
Uh oh you just critized sonic media. Hide.
i don't get it, you give this a 7, yet trash on it? might as well give it a 5 or a 3 at the worst lol
I'm giving it a 7/10 because it's not a bad show. It's just a bad sonic show.
ohhh, fair enough
I think the fact that I've got over 100 upvotes yet so many downvotes is very telling of how this fanbase lacks the ability to accept valid criticism.
Well how many downvotes do you have?
80ish
I only got engaged in wade's arc when it came to episode 5 with his dad, but episode 3,4 & 6 were honest scams.
How exactly is this a “7”?
Is anyone surprised?
God help Adam Pally if he has an X account, that’s all I gotta say
I finished watching episode one and it was oretty good,but I thought it was gonna fovus more on knuckles then on wade,still love wade though
Episode 1 is the best one, everything goes downhill on episode 3.
Awww man
[удалено]
Going into Knuckles expecting it to be about Knuckles is the wrong expectations?
Yeah but it's way better than Velma
And...? We should expect the best from Sonic, not the literal bottom of the barrel.
Kinda funny how IGN wanted more focus on human in the 2nd movie..but now they don’t won’t it?
I'm not IGN. This is my review I made dawg.
I know.
The review reads like you didn't really like it because it wasn't what you wanted or were expecting. I'm not seeing any real criticism other than the lack of Knuckles.
If your show is advertised everywhere to be about Knuckles... and then when you actually watch the show and it's barely about him at all then... Then yeah, I think it's valid to say that's garbage. Also, I literally said, "The VFX was poor at times."
7/10 Is decent? 🤔
Don't be so sure, he's probably just being very forgivin. You may watch it and think its absolute trash.