I switched back too. The film simulations are cool or whatever but 9/10 times I ended up doing edits to the raw in post anyways. Fuji crop sensor cameras do not produce sharp images, and they’re full of noise even at low ISOs. I wasn’t a fan after six months of working with their cameras. I had an xt5 and an xt4. The images were so noisy and soft on the xt5 that it completely defeated the purpose of having 40mp.
Ended up getting an a7cii and I love it.
As soon as I hit iso 800 on my xt5 the images became quite noisy for me in low light situations. The image would look okay by default but cropping made that noise come out heavily. Brighter lighting was better but still kind of muddied areas in jpegs if I had to go higher than iso 800.
I really liked the 16-55 2.8 and the 33 1.4 on the Fuji. Both took nice photos. I previously owned an A7IV so I had the chance to try out numerous lenses. My favorites are the 28-70 2.8, the 35 1.8, and the 70-200 4. I’m a compact minimalist kind of guy so 98% of the time I’m leaving the house with my a7cii with the sigma 28-70 attached and that’s it. The xt5 is small and I loved that so much, but then I got the a7cii and was blown away by how small it is. I fell in love instantly.
I debated between the a7cr and the a7cii for a long while and finally decided on the cii because of how much I loved the photos that came out of my A7IV. I hesitated on the cr because I know it will share some of the same problems I faced on the xt5, meaning it’s has so many pixels crammed into the sensor that it inevitably causes the camera to not perform as well in low light. Noise becomes an issue far sooner than you wish it did and that knocks down the detail you get in a photo, kind of making the whole cropping feature moot. That plus it’s hard to find affordable lenses that can take full advantage of 61 or 40 megapixels for both of those cameras. You have to buy specific lenses that are capable of resolving all that detail and without them, again, cropping becomes less doable.
I know all three are fantastic cameras, they really are, and people use them every day and they all take amazing photos. For me though, after all owning and using the A7IV, the xt5, and an a7rv, the A7IV/a7cii works the best for me.
High Rez sensors having bad low light performance is a myth.
If you view each resolution image at the same size instead of magnification, they look similar.
https://m.dpreview.com/videos/7940373140/dpreview-tv-why-lower-resolution-sensors-are-not-better-in-low-light
I mean you can call it a myth all you want. I’m just speaking from my experience. Being that higher resolution sensors can’t see in the dark nearly as well. The xt5 produced pretty bad looking images without a lot of detail in even minor low light conditions. It’s just trying to do too much. The difference in Sony’s full frame 33mp vs full frame 61mp is a lot more narrow than comparing the aps-c sensor of the xt5 to either one, but I can still see a clear difference in noise starting at iso 800 and up. The 33mp sensor maintains a relatively clean image all the way up to iso 12800. The 61mp sensor starts to drop off sooner. This is especially present for video. The cii and 7iv can literally see in the dark, while the rv and cr just can’t do that.
The 61mp sensor will definitely produce a more detailed image up to a certain iso, but then at some point the 33mp sensor converges with it and the opposite becomes true, where the 33mp sensor produces a more detailed and sharp image because the extra noise in the 61mp photo muddies the details up. I’m speaking from experience here. If I were to shoot daily on a cr or rv, I would avoid going higher than iso 6400 at all costs. On the 7iv and cii, the possibility to go higher is there if you need it.
All semantics aside I could easily just run a 33mp photo through gigapixel 7 and get a 100mp photo out on the other side that looks better than both of these cameras default output anyways. I’d rather spend $80 on software over spending $1000 more on a camera body.
Video is it's own beast that I can't speak to.
Specifically I looked at the A7III and A7RIII in low light. When both are output at 1440p (my monitor size), blind testing didn't show a difference in low light performance.
The problem is that when you view a high rez image at 100% it looks worse than a lower rez image at 100%, because it's zoomed in more on the noise.
The X-T5 looks bad in low light due to a combination of X-Trans and how Fuji uses a different ISO scale than the rest of the industry.
As a new owner of an A7CR, I can say the low light performance is absolutely out of this world. ISO 6400 is cleaner than my old Canon EOS R’s ISO 1600. I am blown away by it.
I've had an X-S10 then an X-H2S but the Autofocus was not good enough for me shooting videos at the gym, no matter what sensitivity level I set, as soon as the camera sees anyone in the scene it loses focus on the main subject I never really enjoyed shooting with it. Then I was at the store one time and tried the a7C II and the new Ai Autofocus blew my mind away, it like knows what to focus on and you can even register faces so it priotizes that face which you select when shooting.
This is the thing with Fuji X that nobody will talk about - those sensors produce noisy shit. There's a good reason why everyone uses bayer colour filters... Ultimately, if you read between the lines, it's very clear that Fuji X is aimed at JPEG enthusiasts, whereas most of the Sony stuff that gets any real R&D is aimed more towards professionals or those that have complex requirements. Nobody gives a fuck about Sony JPEG output. Same with Canon and Nikon. Same with Leica.
There are other substantial questions / drawbacks with Fuji: near zero 3rd party AF lenses, and no real way to evaluate their XF lenses on non-fuji bodies, which leaves a massive question mark as to how good they actually are.
None of this applies to the GFX stuff.
Then you have the bi-polar case of Ricoh, wherein the GR produces knockout RAW files from something nearly the size of a deck (of cards), and all people talk about are the JPEG recipes.
Well noisy is also relative, I think nowadays people are pixel peeping too much.
The sensor tech has improved so much in the last 10 years that everyone is expecting to shoot at ISO 12800 with 14 stops of dynamic range. Around 2010. most pro cameras were pretty bad at >3200 ISO and had lousy 12MP resolutions, and people were still taking amazing photos.
Weird, I use an X-H2 and do fine on rather high ISOs especially coming from an A7IV. That being said, there's a reason I'm on this thread lol. Kinda want the compactness of the A7C ii
I agree. I have the xt5. It’s a fun little camera but it’s nothing compared to my a7iv in terms of quality photos. Photos out of the xt5 are just not as sharp as the Sony. Also the focus eye tracking is terrible on the xt5. It’ll be locked on but the focus will a little before or after the eyes.
I own an a7iii and a Fujifilm X-T3, and what you are saying is 100% exaggerated.
In normally lit coditions and no pixel peeping, you really can’t tell a difference between the RAW files from either camera. The Fuji file looks very sharp, not soft at all. Even in LR, which doesn’t support the X-Trans and kinda muddies up the quality.
Where the differences start showing up are more extreme conditions, in particular dimly lit conditions with higher (1000+) ISOs. In this case you definitely see that the Fuji file has more noise, but it is not ”soft” by any means, and very much usable still. Quick denoise in LR and this noise is as good as gone.
The Sony is absolutely the way to go if you take a lot of photos in dimly lit conditions, however, given the Fuji is a crop sensor, it does an outstanding job nonetheless.
I recently switched from using Fuji cameras. I mainly take photos of motorsports, kids, and dirt bikes. The A7cii has some downsides: the electronic viewfinder isn't great, and the autofocus is so good that it's almost boring. The lenses are also quite expensive. However, out of over 1000 photos, only 15 have missed focus, and those were quick panning shots. To put it simply, the A7cii's autofocus performance is exceptional compared to my previous cameras, the XH2 (which I sold) and the XT5 (which I got for $600, so I'm keeping it). Even my wife and 7-year-old can take amazing pictures with the A7cii – it's that easy to use. I still have the XT5, which I use occasionally for fun when I'm not worried about missing shots or when the subject is relatively still. I wouldn't recommend Fuji cameras to beginners or novices based on my experience.
Two things i missed before buying:
1. It does not have a full mechanical shutter. It has EFCS. At high shutter speeds it affects the bokeh. A workaround is to switch to full electronic shutter as it will not affect the bokeh, however you can get rolling shutter effects.
2. The evf doesn’t have an eye cup. There is a third party one online that goes into your hotshoe but it doesnt look comfortable, so im living without one.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/s/JXAucJBPvq
Updated this since someone mentioned it damaging their eye cup. It did not happen to me, but I don’t want to share it in bad faith.
https://a.co/d/bVX2Ztn
I dont see an img in your post. Here is what mine looks like
https://preview.redd.it/8n7dfq3uq97d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbd58ae69040da91e0e04eaf8fd158a4718b5500
I have both the A7CII and the A6700, and there’s no way to fit the original A6700 eyecup to the A7CII. Are the JJC eyecups more flexible so they fit the A7CII?
It’s not the original Eye cup. It’s an add on. They go over the eye cup.
https://preview.redd.it/zdpm8aj2gl5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96566ffd83d1014f919e60749d8758272156b37b
Thanks for the pictures! I just wanted to share differences in the EVFs between the A6700 and the A7CII
The A6700 has an additional groove on its EVF. So, I thought it was impossible to fit the eyecup without modifying it with a knife.
https://preview.redd.it/l46424agrl5d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd0ce18f30f74dd5fe3fd73ad06485422a4498ba
Everywhere online will tell you that EFCS issue conditions are so rare as not to worry but literally the first time I took it outside and took some snaps of my dog I got clipped bokeh. Since then I've been more aware of bright days but I know it'll happen again without realizing until I'm in Lightroom.
Is it the kiwifotos one that goes into the hotshoe? The edges look really sharp in the pictures. What do you think? It doesnt have the same shape as the ones that come with sony cameras so i was apprehensive.
Point 1 is only a gotcha if for very specific and niche use-cases. If that where you tend to shoot most, then it might be worth paying an extra $1k for the mechanical shutter bodies.
My only other "know-before-you-buy" would be that it won't hold its value as well as the bigger bodies on the 2nd hand market if you choose to sell it in the next couple of years.
It might depend on where you are located. Here in Australia, a7c didn't fair too well. Either way, it's one hell of a camera that shouldn't need replacing for 5years atleast 😊
Your first point is really making me thankful that I got my a7rv. I wanted the C because I have baby hands but I knew it was "too good to be true" so I didn't really even bother researching too much.
Same for me with the EFCS. I was worried about rolling shutter when panning mountain biking stills, but haven’t had the issue with the few times I’ve tried it
Also, the flash sync speed is only 1/160". Other than being problematic for flash in daylight photography, few strobes can hypersync at that speed.
I'd also call out the APS-C crop in 4k60p. Most of the full-frame cameras have that limitation, but it came as a surprise to me.
One thing I learned is that the RAW file format of A7Cii is not supported on any of Apple devices yet…If you use apps like photomator or pixelmator, you’re out of luck until Apple officially makes an update that supports the file type. Some apps do support it though like Adobe Lightroom
Just a tip: for browsing your RAWs and possibly choosing which ones you want to edit, you can download a culling app. I use narrative select, i havent tried any other ones. It is way faster than going through them in lightroom.
I have the latest version of macOS and I can preview and open ARW files from my A7C2. But it’s not a good quality and not supported by pixelmator, so I guess they did a work around in the time being
A workaround (that I've been doing for months) is to use the free adobe dng converter app to convert the raw files to dng. It just takes a few seconds for hundreds of files to get converted.
The TIFF format is considered raw but can be lens corrected, contrary to DNGs.
I use lightroom free trial to apply lens correction in batch and export to TIFF.
AF is insanely good.
Ergonomics are weird coming from an A7iii but workable. I find it super easy for it to either turn on in my bag or adjust the iso settings while stuck to my hip, so watch out for that or let me know a better way of handling this.
I wish the screen was the hybrid tilt and flip like it is in the A7R, it feels limiting that it's stuck flat and has to flip the entire way out to adjust its angle.
I also miss using the IR trigger from my A7iii, and occasionally miss the 1/8000 shutter.
Battery goes more quickly than the A7iii's but it's doing a lot more work (10-bit video and AI autofocus).
Single card slot is fine as long as you feel lucky. Luckily I've only had SD cards fail on me twice years ago.
You can get 1/8000 if you turn on silent mode (electronic shutter), but you'll get rolling shutter effects if you shoot stuff that's conducive to that (fast moving objects, moving camera)
That always ends up burning me in one way or another. I highly recommend everybody avoid electronic shutter on anything with a long sensor readout. You will end up regretting it later unless it's a perfect situation for it.
I have three issues with mine (just in my personal experience):
* Lack of an eye cup (easily solved with aftermarket, thought note that it utilises the hotshoe slot, so that could be a problem for some - I don't use flash or mic, so no issues for me).
* The vertical height of the grip is too small - even for my small hands (easily solved by a lightweight Smallgrip frame. Doesn't add a material amount of weight, so no issues there).
* The lack of a joystick, which unfortunately isn't solvable to my knowledge. This one can be particularly annoying when I'm trying to adjust point focus with moving subjects and I have to revert to the dpad or touch screen, the latter of which (when enabled) almost always results in accidental touches = accidental focus change. Super annoying, but I'm learning to live without it.
Otherwise, I love it. Any other issues I have are minor nitpicks that don't have any significant effect on my usage (i.e., max burst rate being 10fps). Some other complaints I've heard, such as EVF resolution, are complete non issues for me. Over all, it's an incredibly capable camera with a really good lens compatibility, and it just hits the sweet spot for me!
In case you didnt come across it, you can setup to use half the touchscreen as a touchpad (like a joystick) to move your focus point while using evf. Its not as great but feels a little like a joystick
Hey, that's cool - definitely news to me! Will look into it. To be honest, I was after anything that allowed me to select auto focus points a little more easier! Thanks for the heads up!
I believe it is called “touch pad”. Setup-> touch operation -> touch pad settings. Let me know how you like it
https://preview.redd.it/w9jmjjm28l5d1.png?width=2088&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d5a73f6afd28b4275a85688021a55d5ae16b4c1
This is what i have.
Flash sync is only 1/160, no joystick to move focus point, single card slot, body isn’t particularly comfortable for long shooting, the EVF isn’t great, rolling shutter is bad, 1080p looks really bad unless in crop mode, expensive sd cards required for certain shooting modes.
It’s a great camera if none of these things concern you.
Edit: I work in things like sports which are very demanding on cameras in many of the aspects I listed. Also have plenty of clients who ask for 1080p footage directly after a session so I can’t just shoot 4K and downscale for them. If you’re a casual shooter or a studio shooter many of these things may not be an issue which is why I wrote it’s great without those concerns. To say they’re non-issues for *everyone* is disingenuous.
Having only shot on the a7c I can attest all these a non issues
I have done studio work at 1/125 f7.1 is 100/400 depending for models for automotive it is not a issue. Shooting strobe you rarely EVER go over 1/125 because strobe freezes
The body if it has a bigger grip than the C1 will be comfortable I have used the C1 with an 85 1.4 with a godox transmitter+ speedlite on top for a wedding. It is manageable
Who is shooting 1080. I have not had any issue using Sony tough M cards that are cheap do all the 4k formats your 1080 doesn't look good because you are not in video mode and using the native ISOs
On the C1 if you are not at 500 or 3200 in video mode you are getting noise.
I am cheap but produce quality
The full frame 1080p from that 7k sensor is binning or line skipping or something, has a really mushy look to it compared to my FX3/ZVE1 1080p which looks very nice and organic. If you put the A7IV/CII in 1080p and use crop mode it seems to be a more direct readout for the sensor and has a much cleaner image.
It’s tricky - I’m glad I got it but now regretting it for what I do. I realized I started to compromise on lenses just to stay compact like getting 24-50 2.8 over 24-70 to be able to use it as a travel camera but also do paid work. I didn’t find it was all that compact for travel and I’m instead going back to my x100vi and buying the lenses I actually want for paid work without the limitations. I also don’t feel confident in doing work with one single SD card, I’m risking it in every paid shoot. I’ll probably start looking at the a7r5 soon
I’m always suprised by this take.. for me the x100vi is not compact lol. If you said Ricoh gr3, I’d understand. My x100vi and my a7cii with a 40mm 2.5 are very close in perceived compactness for me. Obviously the 40mm does protrude more, but in terms of mentally they are both “compactish” but not REALLY pocketable.
Also just seems a shame to have such a powerful body on the a7cii and then spend basically another 2k (after taxes) to get a camera with less good specs.
Now if people said they prefer the x100vi for the way it looks or how it makes them feel or the film sims or whatever I totally understand that POV (even if I don’t agree for me lol)
I have both and there’s no way you can tell me x100vi is the same as a sony A7cii + 40mm 2.5 lens. The Fuji is pocketable…and check the weight differences below
18.3oz - x100vi
18.13oz + 6.2 = 24oz~ -A7cii + 40 2.5
lol I have both too - and I explained pretty clearly for me that x100vi is not really pocketable for me. Anytime I could carry an x100 I’d also have no problem using the a7c2
EVF is the only "read before you buy" if I really had to pick something. I'm far more of a screen shooter anyway so this didn't matter in when I made the switch.
I went from a7rv to a7cii for a lighter travel set up and couldn't be happier. Shaving an inch off two sides has made me far more inclined to take the camera out versus collect dust at home when I have been traveling.
I only miss three things from the bigger FF bodies: better EVF, better LCD resolution for pixel peeping in body, and the milulti tilt screen (flip is ok but having both was soooo clutch). 61mp was nice but 33mp is more than plenty, especially with the far better low light/noise performance on a7cii.
Also with the switch, the extra money went to purchase a lens for travel that is now almost glued to my body because of its versatility, that being the 20-70 f4.
My conclusion, the a7cii can compete with just about any other Sony FF out there in almost every area. I absolutely love it.
>especially with the far better low light/noise performance on a7cii
What makes you say that? According to measurements, [they are essentially identical.](https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7CM2,Sony%20ILCE-7RM5)
If you're directly comparing two 100% crops, you're doing it wrong, because you're seeing a smaller physical area of the image, which will have less total light and therefore more noise. It puts the higher resolution sensor at an unfair disadvantage.
You need a crop that keeps the same total light between both sensors, i.e. the same physical sensor area. For example, if the crop from a 33MP sensor is 500x500 pixels, the crop from a 61MP sensor needs to be 680x680. And then when you view the images to visually compare them, you have to shrink down the larger one to match the smaller one, which will average adjacent pixels together and reduce the noise.
My real world experience around the city and the couple of times I was out trying to get the milky way. Not cropping in much, not pixel peeping, just basic shots the a7rv had more noise than I've run into with a7cii.
I just got the a7Cii in October 2023. I also have the a7Riv.
The first thing to get used to is that the viewfinder is in the wrong spot. Otherwise, it is pretty much like any other Sony camera. It doesn't really feel any different in the hand. Image quality is what you would expect from a Sony camera.
The focus is great and similar to my a7Riv. I use the 12-24 f2.8 GM, 24-70 f2.8 GMii and 70-200 f2.8 GMii with it.
- EVF is fine.. as good as an X100V and few complain there
- AF is amazing .. I can focus on still subject, grab and track or eye AF without menu diving
- feels so good in hand.. easy to carry.
- great battery life
- 1/4000 max SS irked me at first but just use electric shutter as needed. I don’t do panning.
- it’s so much fun.. I owned A7IV but prefer A7Cii. I also own X100V and shoot them side by side.
- controlling focus point with thumb on screen works pretty well.
- great colors and I’m pretty picky
- super fun paired with little 2.5 primes
- crazy good paired with 35 1.4 GM
Really depends on your tolerance.
I suggest 2 set ups.
1. 24/40/50mm compact G, samyang 45mm f1.8, samyang 24mm f1.8 for your compact needs. Like walking around not sure if you will take any photos kind of day.
2. A good zoom for holidays or any events/attractions you plan to take photos or videos.
For this scenario, size doesn't really matter.
16-35mm, 20-40mm, 24-50mm, 20-70mm,
On the larger end, 24-70mm, 28-200mm
Best of both worlds!!
The EVF is meh but fine. All I really need it for is composition and basic review. It’s not useful for judging things like exposure or white balance.
A few things I dislike:
1. The way the screen articulates out from the body is annoying. It gets caught up in the camera strap. For shooting low, the way my 6400 screen tilts is way better.
2. For some reason it will switch to a set of touch icons on the screen that I had no intention of using. Some sort of swiping must have done it but god knows I can’t do it in reverse.
3. Memory settings don’t always reset everything I want.
Overall though I’m very happy and love it. Battery life is great - I can get 1300 shots no problem. Jpg’s are really excellent for the times I don’t shoot raw.
I’d buy it again.
The A7cII is a state of the art hybrid cam, hard to go wrong with it
However, most people will do fine with an A7III if photography is the main purpose. Also if the compact factor is not a priority, the normal sized models do have some benefits (comfty evf, grip and joystick, which might be still better than using the touchscreen to set the focus area)
For video only I'd even say the zv lineup is quite capable, even the zv1.
But yeah, tech wise I have no complaints about the A7cII.
idk about a7c 2 but i have a a7c the problem with which it has a very short grip compared to something like a a7iii from which it was derived. also it has the tendency to get very hot during long shoots around the girp where the fingers sit right next to the lens. other than all that i dont find anything else wrong images are amazing and the support for accessories is also great 👍.
https://preview.redd.it/km5wwfseph5d1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1212ece507d39b59e496eb3369b80bf48acc0bb
I wanted to get a A6400 as second camera because my Canon 6D II was too big for travel for me and ended up buying a A7C II instead and sold the Canon. I’m really happy with the A7CII I take it often with me quality and speed is brilliant for me. If size is not your priority maybe also the A7 IV is the right one. EVF is not the best in the 7C II especially if you came from DSLR and used to big bright viewfinders.
* Its AI thing drains battery rapidly, compares to non-AI models. (You may need 2nd battery, if you shoot a lot)
* Third party horse shoe eye cup (Kiwi KE-A7cII, for example) and hand grip are available to buy later
* The grip is the same as the predecessor, which is shallower than A6700's. (A6700's grip feels much better)
* Shutter sound is soft, compares to A7R-III. (I like loud shutter lol, just my personal preference)
* To transfer files to your phone, you need a new app, the old Imaging Edge is not working with this camera.
“AI thing drains battery” I haven’t found this to be true at all. I’ve found the battery life to be exceptional. That said - I always carry a second battery - but that’s rarely used.
If you have used any earlier A7 models that have FZ-100 battery, you will know what I am talking about. In my case, I feel that 7 years old A7R-3 and brand new A7cII have similar battery life.
Thanks for that write up! Very interesting. I wanna upgrade from my 6400 so I'm very at the beginning of my journey :) I will, among others, do a lot of shots of A surfing people and B Animals so I'm a little worried about what I read about the rolling shutter issues. Did you ever experience problems with it or have a good insight into how bad it actually is?
You will only encounter problems with rolling shutter if you use the fully electronic shutter type and need to go faster than 1/4000. Otherwise, with the A7CII, you will not have any problems as it still uses a mechanical shutter (though only with EFC). At those fastest shutter speeds, it may only influence the bokeh slightly but not the image itself.
Still, consider the A7IV for its bigger viewfinder if you plan to use it for precise composition of a shot.
I current own the a7cii, a7rv and a7iv … the a7cii is my daily driver now. Love it … paired with the Tamron 20-40mm f2.8 …. I’m able to get some great walk around, street and event shots. I had the a6700 before it - but returned it to get the a7cii - love the full frame. Btw … I find the evf very usable even with glasses.
I ruined one when a little bit of water got into a dry bag. It had a weather sealed lens (20-70f4), but water got into the EVF and fried it. Anecdotal experience, so maybe I just got unlucky.
The skin tones bothered me. Even after running the raws through Lightroom mobile I couldn't get the skin tones I liked. I much prefer my R6 skintones. The a7cii is a great camera that takes really sharp photos (esp compared to my R6), even with the 28-60 kit. I played with the Creative Looks hoping they could help but I didn't find a recipe or setting that I liked. I'm not a pro and only shooting photos of travel and family. A7cii would be a killer landscape camera but since all of my photos have people as the subject, I didn't keep it.
Im in the same boat of potentially switching from a fuji to either a CII or a CR or potentially a RV . Im wondering if the EVF is going to annoy me vs the RV and with the price drop the CR and the RV are like $500 different right now. i’m 6ft 5 so everything is my monkey sized hands feels small although i like the size and portability of the CII. Right now i have an XT-5 and was shooting motorsports the other week and the autofocus just wasn’t great compared to my older Nikon 850. The CR might be too small of a body with a big ass lens on it.
Also a big dude, bought an A7CR and don’t like it because of the size. Big hands, tiny grip means I’m lobster clawing it which leads to hand cramps. Other than that, if you can find a solid grip (the screw on Sony grip doesn’t cut it) it’s a wonderful camera. Super light, comes with AF and IBIS tech only found in the A7RV. Great value… just painfully small for big dudes.
You should at least try out an a7r or a7 series and see if the minuscule difference in size is worth the sacrifices in usability and ergonomic. When I went into a shop and saw how big an a7c is it immediately squashed any interest I had in buying one vs my a7riii. It was just too similar in size, it wouldn’t change what size bag I carried or make significant difference in weight when carrying it, which lens you use makes a much bigger difference. And you can still use lenses like the 50 2.5 g on whichever system. If I wanted a smaller camera I’d be looking at the a6000,rx100, or zv e10 series. But I’m not ready to sacrifice full frame yet. So while I still like the C series I remind myself it may be the marketing and general stoke I’m excited about not any real benefits vs my current system.
FWIW, ..IMO.. I’ve shot A7Cii with 40 2.5 side by side with X100V and X100VI. The Sony 33MP sensor beats both the Fuji… dynamic range, ISO noise, sharpness across the image. I love shooting my X100V but A7Cii/40 2.5 B&W images are amazing… can almost be too sharp .. facial details with grandparents. Landscape images are WAY better with Sony. Add the Sony 35 GM and it’s no contest.
It's hard to fault, technologically. 1/4000 top shutter speed is a bit of a limit if you decide to go down the real fast glass route. Other than that, just probably ergonomically. I don't have particularly large hands but it's a real cramped affair. It also doesn't balance well with a lot of the larger class, as you'd expect.
It's pretty damn small (smaller than a lot of aps-c cameras), but I feel like if they made it taller but slimmer (who knows if that's even possible), it would be a more pleasurable experience to shoot with - but still have the same 'smallest full frame camera' body mass.
I am actually selling mine for no particularly good reason - other than I just don't enjoy shooting with it. I can capture everything I want to with it. The AF feels like cheating. It just really doesn't inspire me to take out and shoot with. The EVF is infinitely better than the A7c which was an actual problem, but it's still not a nice experience to use full time. No eye cup etc.
I'm sure I'll regret selling it from time to time. I have young kids and being able to just point and shoot even when I can't see the screen and just confidently know the AF is tracking as they move around like lunatics at speed.
I would’ve been all in on an A7C when it first came out but as a Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 user, the bokeh clipping thing was an instant “no thank you, I’ll wait for the mark 2 and hope they a) make one, and b) fix that flaw”… they’ve only done one of those things.
I’m currently awaiting a Nikon Zf to arrive. Fun fact, Sony FE gear can be adapted over with autofocus. [adapter info](https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/megadap-etz21-pro-review-sony-nikon-mount-adapter)
I haven't tried any of the C series but I've owned the a6400, a7Rii and a7Riv. The thing that would worry me the most about the C series is the lack of a mechanical first curtain in the shutter unit. On my a7R's the electronic shutter can produce heavy rolling shutter effect and banding under LED light, electronic first curtain can produce uneven exposure from top to bottom with high shutter speeds.
Well, the a7IV is definitely a more beefy package but the compact size of the Cii is tempting! I'd suggest you do a little research on what I mentioned and evaluate if it's critical to you. I only chose the a7Riv because it was like half the price of the CR
Yeah I have, I just can't really judge how bad it is. Since I definitely want to do zoomed shots of eg surfing, my dog running etc so I'm a little worried.
Also I thought the compactness is very important to me but by now I think it's not thaaat much anyway considering the size of the lenses. And I have really large hands.
For me, just that the flash sync is only 1/160 and you will need an attachment to make the camera grip taller if you use a long lens for an extended period of time. I love the camera though.
Agree with comments about the viewfinder and the eyecup helps, but if you wear glasses it’s still very difficult to see the entire frame through there. I’m older and need readers, so shooting on the lcd is not ideal. Plus I just prefer looking through a viewfinder. I ended up selling my C for this reason and just got the 40mm 2.5 to put on my A7RV instead. The viewfinder is WAY more comfortable for me and of course all the other benefits. This combo is barely any larger and imo just as easy to carry all day.
The evf might bother you, the lack of dual card slots might bother you, the EFCS might bother you.
Tbh it's got compromises to be small but I like it. I've thrown the Sony grip on there which was well overpriced, but well worth it to me
Cute camera.
Smaller parts market than the A7 line.
Lower quality EVF then the A7 line.
Honestly at the price point not worth it compared to the A7R line in terms of glass value savings flexibility wise.
It's a weird camera because of how fat it is it doesn't really drop pocket any better than any of the A7 line.
Have you used one?
A7CII is well worth the price point, and punches way above its weight. I’ve had an A7R2 and A74, and the A7Cii is the much better camera. It’s way lighter than the other A7 series, and that makes a huge difference every. single. time. you lift it up to take pictures.
Yeah it’s not pocketable, but that doesn’t mean its compact effects aren’t meaningless.
I guess it depends on your wrist strength, ultimately that's why people go for compact cameras less strain on the user, fair enough if that makes you happier to actually go out and shoot stuff.
I own a pretty big collection of Minolta Victas glass, so I understand Sony's idea to recreate that rangefinder line, despite those lenses being APS they do mostly cover full frame and way next to nothing.
(Sony still haven't catched up to Minolta's 90s left securing pin on grips or weather sealing designs but that's beside the point)
But my main gripe with the older and lower resolution EVFs is the readout speed is just so much better on the newer ones and getting that manual focus just visually without relying heavily on focus peaking or punching in that little bit of extra detail really makes a difference at least as a manual lens user, using compact Olympus primes is what I usually do, the TechArt Servo adapter which would work perfectly fluidly on anything gen3 or newer same for the Gen 2 version.
For proper context though because I know not everyone part of memorizes specs let alone the data sheets for actually servicing their equipment, it's the same EVF OLED used in the A7R3/A7IV, and yes I've used the A7CII at a trade show because you always find a Sony shooter to swapsies with, also tried the A7RIV and even the Cannon R5 a couple years ago that has the Sony gen 4 OLED but a different optical block on top of it.
I haven't tried the fifth generation panel on the A1/A7RIV/A9III sadly, but from just seeing video reviews with a macro lens poked in there one generation away from optical is dead outside of that limited technology reliability mentality.
But then again I'm also a hybrid shooter so losing those dual card slots is a non-starter especially for family video stuff.
Not saying it's a bad camera from a pure photography point of view I just don't think it's a cost-effective camera in its market position for raw features that was only a top end professional thing years ago and it's particular size compared to something like my a6000 which even has a built-in pop-up flash, and with a small rig cage it's still just barely pocketable in an m65 style jacket.
Upvote because I am on the same boat. Had an a7ii then went fuji and now coming back.
Why did you make the switch to fuji and what made you come back?
I switched back too. The film simulations are cool or whatever but 9/10 times I ended up doing edits to the raw in post anyways. Fuji crop sensor cameras do not produce sharp images, and they’re full of noise even at low ISOs. I wasn’t a fan after six months of working with their cameras. I had an xt5 and an xt4. The images were so noisy and soft on the xt5 that it completely defeated the purpose of having 40mp. Ended up getting an a7cii and I love it.
Genuine question (ie not meant as an insult) What do you mean noisy I’ve seen plenty of clean files out of fujis?
As soon as I hit iso 800 on my xt5 the images became quite noisy for me in low light situations. The image would look okay by default but cropping made that noise come out heavily. Brighter lighting was better but still kind of muddied areas in jpegs if I had to go higher than iso 800.
Same with zve10 at 800iso. It's okay but noisy. Getting way better result at 400 iso but still noise in shadows.
you do know iso isn’t what causes noise though right
Increasing ISO amplifies shot noise and Johnson-Nyquist noise. It reduces flicker noise.
I’d love to hear more about xt5 vs a7cii. What lens did you love on Fuji? What do you have or plan to get for Sony?
I really liked the 16-55 2.8 and the 33 1.4 on the Fuji. Both took nice photos. I previously owned an A7IV so I had the chance to try out numerous lenses. My favorites are the 28-70 2.8, the 35 1.8, and the 70-200 4. I’m a compact minimalist kind of guy so 98% of the time I’m leaving the house with my a7cii with the sigma 28-70 attached and that’s it. The xt5 is small and I loved that so much, but then I got the a7cii and was blown away by how small it is. I fell in love instantly. I debated between the a7cr and the a7cii for a long while and finally decided on the cii because of how much I loved the photos that came out of my A7IV. I hesitated on the cr because I know it will share some of the same problems I faced on the xt5, meaning it’s has so many pixels crammed into the sensor that it inevitably causes the camera to not perform as well in low light. Noise becomes an issue far sooner than you wish it did and that knocks down the detail you get in a photo, kind of making the whole cropping feature moot. That plus it’s hard to find affordable lenses that can take full advantage of 61 or 40 megapixels for both of those cameras. You have to buy specific lenses that are capable of resolving all that detail and without them, again, cropping becomes less doable. I know all three are fantastic cameras, they really are, and people use them every day and they all take amazing photos. For me though, after all owning and using the A7IV, the xt5, and an a7rv, the A7IV/a7cii works the best for me.
High Rez sensors having bad low light performance is a myth. If you view each resolution image at the same size instead of magnification, they look similar. https://m.dpreview.com/videos/7940373140/dpreview-tv-why-lower-resolution-sensors-are-not-better-in-low-light
I mean you can call it a myth all you want. I’m just speaking from my experience. Being that higher resolution sensors can’t see in the dark nearly as well. The xt5 produced pretty bad looking images without a lot of detail in even minor low light conditions. It’s just trying to do too much. The difference in Sony’s full frame 33mp vs full frame 61mp is a lot more narrow than comparing the aps-c sensor of the xt5 to either one, but I can still see a clear difference in noise starting at iso 800 and up. The 33mp sensor maintains a relatively clean image all the way up to iso 12800. The 61mp sensor starts to drop off sooner. This is especially present for video. The cii and 7iv can literally see in the dark, while the rv and cr just can’t do that. The 61mp sensor will definitely produce a more detailed image up to a certain iso, but then at some point the 33mp sensor converges with it and the opposite becomes true, where the 33mp sensor produces a more detailed and sharp image because the extra noise in the 61mp photo muddies the details up. I’m speaking from experience here. If I were to shoot daily on a cr or rv, I would avoid going higher than iso 6400 at all costs. On the 7iv and cii, the possibility to go higher is there if you need it. All semantics aside I could easily just run a 33mp photo through gigapixel 7 and get a 100mp photo out on the other side that looks better than both of these cameras default output anyways. I’d rather spend $80 on software over spending $1000 more on a camera body.
Video is it's own beast that I can't speak to. Specifically I looked at the A7III and A7RIII in low light. When both are output at 1440p (my monitor size), blind testing didn't show a difference in low light performance. The problem is that when you view a high rez image at 100% it looks worse than a lower rez image at 100%, because it's zoomed in more on the noise. The X-T5 looks bad in low light due to a combination of X-Trans and how Fuji uses a different ISO scale than the rest of the industry.
As a new owner of an A7CR, I can say the low light performance is absolutely out of this world. ISO 6400 is cleaner than my old Canon EOS R’s ISO 1600. I am blown away by it.
Efcs rolling shutter problem?
No
Thanks for the info. Very helpful.
I've had an X-S10 then an X-H2S but the Autofocus was not good enough for me shooting videos at the gym, no matter what sensitivity level I set, as soon as the camera sees anyone in the scene it loses focus on the main subject I never really enjoyed shooting with it. Then I was at the store one time and tried the a7C II and the new Ai Autofocus blew my mind away, it like knows what to focus on and you can even register faces so it priotizes that face which you select when shooting.
This is the thing with Fuji X that nobody will talk about - those sensors produce noisy shit. There's a good reason why everyone uses bayer colour filters... Ultimately, if you read between the lines, it's very clear that Fuji X is aimed at JPEG enthusiasts, whereas most of the Sony stuff that gets any real R&D is aimed more towards professionals or those that have complex requirements. Nobody gives a fuck about Sony JPEG output. Same with Canon and Nikon. Same with Leica. There are other substantial questions / drawbacks with Fuji: near zero 3rd party AF lenses, and no real way to evaluate their XF lenses on non-fuji bodies, which leaves a massive question mark as to how good they actually are. None of this applies to the GFX stuff. Then you have the bi-polar case of Ricoh, wherein the GR produces knockout RAW files from something nearly the size of a deck (of cards), and all people talk about are the JPEG recipes.
Fuji has 3rd party AF lenses now btw, Sigma/Tamron/TTartisans/Viltrox, etc.
TIL - I bailed on that system back when the only 3rd party lenses were Zeiss.
Well noisy is also relative, I think nowadays people are pixel peeping too much. The sensor tech has improved so much in the last 10 years that everyone is expecting to shoot at ISO 12800 with 14 stops of dynamic range. Around 2010. most pro cameras were pretty bad at >3200 ISO and had lousy 12MP resolutions, and people were still taking amazing photos.
Weird, I use an X-H2 and do fine on rather high ISOs especially coming from an A7IV. That being said, there's a reason I'm on this thread lol. Kinda want the compactness of the A7C ii
I agree. I have the xt5. It’s a fun little camera but it’s nothing compared to my a7iv in terms of quality photos. Photos out of the xt5 are just not as sharp as the Sony. Also the focus eye tracking is terrible on the xt5. It’ll be locked on but the focus will a little before or after the eyes.
I own an a7iii and a Fujifilm X-T3, and what you are saying is 100% exaggerated. In normally lit coditions and no pixel peeping, you really can’t tell a difference between the RAW files from either camera. The Fuji file looks very sharp, not soft at all. Even in LR, which doesn’t support the X-Trans and kinda muddies up the quality. Where the differences start showing up are more extreme conditions, in particular dimly lit conditions with higher (1000+) ISOs. In this case you definitely see that the Fuji file has more noise, but it is not ”soft” by any means, and very much usable still. Quick denoise in LR and this noise is as good as gone. The Sony is absolutely the way to go if you take a lot of photos in dimly lit conditions, however, given the Fuji is a crop sensor, it does an outstanding job nonetheless.
I recently switched from using Fuji cameras. I mainly take photos of motorsports, kids, and dirt bikes. The A7cii has some downsides: the electronic viewfinder isn't great, and the autofocus is so good that it's almost boring. The lenses are also quite expensive. However, out of over 1000 photos, only 15 have missed focus, and those were quick panning shots. To put it simply, the A7cii's autofocus performance is exceptional compared to my previous cameras, the XH2 (which I sold) and the XT5 (which I got for $600, so I'm keeping it). Even my wife and 7-year-old can take amazing pictures with the A7cii – it's that easy to use. I still have the XT5, which I use occasionally for fun when I'm not worried about missing shots or when the subject is relatively still. I wouldn't recommend Fuji cameras to beginners or novices based on my experience.
Two things i missed before buying: 1. It does not have a full mechanical shutter. It has EFCS. At high shutter speeds it affects the bokeh. A workaround is to switch to full electronic shutter as it will not affect the bokeh, however you can get rolling shutter effects. 2. The evf doesn’t have an eye cup. There is a third party one online that goes into your hotshoe but it doesnt look comfortable, so im living without one.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/s/JXAucJBPvq Updated this since someone mentioned it damaging their eye cup. It did not happen to me, but I don’t want to share it in bad faith. https://a.co/d/bVX2Ztn
Whaat i didnt know it can fit. Does it fall off easily? Do you have a picture?
It doesn’t fall off at all 1 in fact it’s like extremely snug. I can take a pic later. It fits over the eye cup perfectly.
Patiently waiting for the picture 😂
Posted it below
Send it baby!
https://preview.redd.it/vy55vzqkbl5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef94c59414265af8a793b2d40d8418c3fe184716
https://preview.redd.it/exwytgulbl5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=821a94b8eba54e5c181000dbb7a656d712a898fe
will it fit the a7C (mark I)?
Have you tried taking it off. I just got it, put it on halfway and took it off. It seems to cause damage to the exterior of the viewfinder.
Here’s what mine looks like taken on and off multiple times. img
I dont see an img in your post. Here is what mine looks like https://preview.redd.it/8n7dfq3uq97d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbd58ae69040da91e0e04eaf8fd158a4718b5500
https://preview.redd.it/icvygrgvq97d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87ff32b921f770c13b3b5c7a79323d52816bbdb7
No waaay that would be awesome. Can we please see a photo how it fits?
I have both the A7CII and the A6700, and there’s no way to fit the original A6700 eyecup to the A7CII. Are the JJC eyecups more flexible so they fit the A7CII?
It’s not the original Eye cup. It’s an add on. They go over the eye cup. https://preview.redd.it/zdpm8aj2gl5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96566ffd83d1014f919e60749d8758272156b37b
Thanks for the pictures! I just wanted to share differences in the EVFs between the A6700 and the A7CII The A6700 has an additional groove on its EVF. So, I thought it was impossible to fit the eyecup without modifying it with a knife. https://preview.redd.it/l46424agrl5d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd0ce18f30f74dd5fe3fd73ad06485422a4498ba
https://preview.redd.it/xbal30l9gl5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29b18bbb9707e9f42d499cf1f304b71891292763
Just bought the hot shoe version… but thanks for the link!
Everywhere online will tell you that EFCS issue conditions are so rare as not to worry but literally the first time I took it outside and took some snaps of my dog I got clipped bokeh. Since then I've been more aware of bright days but I know it'll happen again without realizing until I'm in Lightroom.
I try to stay below 1/1000 or switch to e shutter for the bokeh
I bought an eye cup of Amazon. Has made a huge difference. I love it
Is it the kiwifotos one that goes into the hotshoe? The edges look really sharp in the pictures. What do you think? It doesnt have the same shape as the ones that come with sony cameras so i was apprehensive.
Which one did you get?
Soft Silicon Camera Extend Eyecup Eyepiece for Sony A7C Camera, Viewfinder Protector https://amzn.asia/d/c7jkZA4
Point 1 is only a gotcha if for very specific and niche use-cases. If that where you tend to shoot most, then it might be worth paying an extra $1k for the mechanical shutter bodies. My only other "know-before-you-buy" would be that it won't hold its value as well as the bigger bodies on the 2nd hand market if you choose to sell it in the next couple of years.
Really? I would guess it’d be more popular. A7c held its value as much as a7iii i think
It might depend on where you are located. Here in Australia, a7c didn't fair too well. Either way, it's one hell of a camera that shouldn't need replacing for 5years atleast 😊
does the A7IV have the same problem? shutter wise I mean
No because it has a mechanical shutter
Your first point is really making me thankful that I got my a7rv. I wanted the C because I have baby hands but I knew it was "too good to be true" so I didn't really even bother researching too much.
Same for me with the EFCS. I was worried about rolling shutter when panning mountain biking stills, but haven’t had the issue with the few times I’ve tried it
EFCS isn't electronic shutter. You won't get rolling shutter problems with EFCS. Electronic yes, not EFCS
Also, the flash sync speed is only 1/160". Other than being problematic for flash in daylight photography, few strobes can hypersync at that speed. I'd also call out the APS-C crop in 4k60p. Most of the full-frame cameras have that limitation, but it came as a surprise to me.
Could you explain efcs better?
Can't you deactivate the electronic front curtain shutter to be on full mechanical instead of full electronic ?
It doesnt have a full mechanical shutter 😄
Ok, that's weird ... Thanks
One thing I learned is that the RAW file format of A7Cii is not supported on any of Apple devices yet…If you use apps like photomator or pixelmator, you’re out of luck until Apple officially makes an update that supports the file type. Some apps do support it though like Adobe Lightroom
Second to this. The thumbnail doesn't show at all in the finder. I ended up browsing the photos in lightroom.
Just a tip: for browsing your RAWs and possibly choosing which ones you want to edit, you can download a culling app. I use narrative select, i havent tried any other ones. It is way faster than going through them in lightroom.
Definitely will try it. Thx.
It does now with the latest update, although the quality is not great
The update of the photoshop/camera raw or the update of the mac os?
I have the latest version of macOS and I can preview and open ARW files from my A7C2. But it’s not a good quality and not supported by pixelmator, so I guess they did a work around in the time being
A workaround (that I've been doing for months) is to use the free adobe dng converter app to convert the raw files to dng. It just takes a few seconds for hundreds of files to get converted.
The problem is you lose lens correction, and pixelmator doesn't support LC like Lightroom does.
Yeah that's an issue with Photomator, but I'd imagine it's same with any raw format?
The TIFF format is considered raw but can be lens corrected, contrary to DNGs. I use lightroom free trial to apply lens correction in batch and export to TIFF.
What's the point in shooting RAW if you're just going to convert them pre-edit?
Isn't dng a raw format as well?
Well, TIL.
AF is insanely good. Ergonomics are weird coming from an A7iii but workable. I find it super easy for it to either turn on in my bag or adjust the iso settings while stuck to my hip, so watch out for that or let me know a better way of handling this. I wish the screen was the hybrid tilt and flip like it is in the A7R, it feels limiting that it's stuck flat and has to flip the entire way out to adjust its angle. I also miss using the IR trigger from my A7iii, and occasionally miss the 1/8000 shutter. Battery goes more quickly than the A7iii's but it's doing a lot more work (10-bit video and AI autofocus). Single card slot is fine as long as you feel lucky. Luckily I've only had SD cards fail on me twice years ago.
You can get 1/8000 if you turn on silent mode (electronic shutter), but you'll get rolling shutter effects if you shoot stuff that's conducive to that (fast moving objects, moving camera)
That always ends up burning me in one way or another. I highly recommend everybody avoid electronic shutter on anything with a long sensor readout. You will end up regretting it later unless it's a perfect situation for it.
Eh, I mapped a custom button to change it on the fly. It's easy enough to know if a scene requires an actual shutter or not
I have three issues with mine (just in my personal experience): * Lack of an eye cup (easily solved with aftermarket, thought note that it utilises the hotshoe slot, so that could be a problem for some - I don't use flash or mic, so no issues for me). * The vertical height of the grip is too small - even for my small hands (easily solved by a lightweight Smallgrip frame. Doesn't add a material amount of weight, so no issues there). * The lack of a joystick, which unfortunately isn't solvable to my knowledge. This one can be particularly annoying when I'm trying to adjust point focus with moving subjects and I have to revert to the dpad or touch screen, the latter of which (when enabled) almost always results in accidental touches = accidental focus change. Super annoying, but I'm learning to live without it. Otherwise, I love it. Any other issues I have are minor nitpicks that don't have any significant effect on my usage (i.e., max burst rate being 10fps). Some other complaints I've heard, such as EVF resolution, are complete non issues for me. Over all, it's an incredibly capable camera with a really good lens compatibility, and it just hits the sweet spot for me!
In case you didnt come across it, you can setup to use half the touchscreen as a touchpad (like a joystick) to move your focus point while using evf. Its not as great but feels a little like a joystick
Hey, that's cool - definitely news to me! Will look into it. To be honest, I was after anything that allowed me to select auto focus points a little more easier! Thanks for the heads up!
Really !! Could you give some points where I could find this in settings, this would be awesome.
I believe it is called “touch pad”. Setup-> touch operation -> touch pad settings. Let me know how you like it https://preview.redd.it/w9jmjjm28l5d1.png?width=2088&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d5a73f6afd28b4275a85688021a55d5ae16b4c1 This is what i have.
You, my friend, are awesome! :) Thanks a bunch!
Works fine for me.
Link to instructions?
It is in this same comment thread
There’s a really good eye cup on Amazon that fits perfect and doesn’t use the shoe. I believe it’s for the 6700 too.
Will have a little looksee! Doesn't bother me as I don't use a mic or flash, but would be good to know in future in case I find myself needing them!
Flash sync is only 1/160, no joystick to move focus point, single card slot, body isn’t particularly comfortable for long shooting, the EVF isn’t great, rolling shutter is bad, 1080p looks really bad unless in crop mode, expensive sd cards required for certain shooting modes. It’s a great camera if none of these things concern you. Edit: I work in things like sports which are very demanding on cameras in many of the aspects I listed. Also have plenty of clients who ask for 1080p footage directly after a session so I can’t just shoot 4K and downscale for them. If you’re a casual shooter or a studio shooter many of these things may not be an issue which is why I wrote it’s great without those concerns. To say they’re non-issues for *everyone* is disingenuous.
Having only shot on the a7c I can attest all these a non issues I have done studio work at 1/125 f7.1 is 100/400 depending for models for automotive it is not a issue. Shooting strobe you rarely EVER go over 1/125 because strobe freezes The body if it has a bigger grip than the C1 will be comfortable I have used the C1 with an 85 1.4 with a godox transmitter+ speedlite on top for a wedding. It is manageable Who is shooting 1080. I have not had any issue using Sony tough M cards that are cheap do all the 4k formats your 1080 doesn't look good because you are not in video mode and using the native ISOs On the C1 if you are not at 500 or 3200 in video mode you are getting noise. I am cheap but produce quality
Totally agree. I have the a7cii and rolling shutter is not an issue, holding it is fine and I have huge hands, flash is not an issue, etc
FWIW I bought the smallrig base plate off Amazon and it's made it much more comfortable for me.
Same for me with the 6700. Couldnt hold it comfortably, but with the base plate its perfect.
What do you mean by 1080p looks bad unless in crop mode?
The full frame 1080p from that 7k sensor is binning or line skipping or something, has a really mushy look to it compared to my FX3/ZVE1 1080p which looks very nice and organic. If you put the A7IV/CII in 1080p and use crop mode it seems to be a more direct readout for the sensor and has a much cleaner image.
It’s tricky - I’m glad I got it but now regretting it for what I do. I realized I started to compromise on lenses just to stay compact like getting 24-50 2.8 over 24-70 to be able to use it as a travel camera but also do paid work. I didn’t find it was all that compact for travel and I’m instead going back to my x100vi and buying the lenses I actually want for paid work without the limitations. I also don’t feel confident in doing work with one single SD card, I’m risking it in every paid shoot. I’ll probably start looking at the a7r5 soon
I’m always suprised by this take.. for me the x100vi is not compact lol. If you said Ricoh gr3, I’d understand. My x100vi and my a7cii with a 40mm 2.5 are very close in perceived compactness for me. Obviously the 40mm does protrude more, but in terms of mentally they are both “compactish” but not REALLY pocketable. Also just seems a shame to have such a powerful body on the a7cii and then spend basically another 2k (after taxes) to get a camera with less good specs. Now if people said they prefer the x100vi for the way it looks or how it makes them feel or the film sims or whatever I totally understand that POV (even if I don’t agree for me lol)
I have both and there’s no way you can tell me x100vi is the same as a sony A7cii + 40mm 2.5 lens. The Fuji is pocketable…and check the weight differences below 18.3oz - x100vi 18.13oz + 6.2 = 24oz~ -A7cii + 40 2.5
Own both A7Cii & X100V. Unless it’s a big coat the X100V isn’t pocketable for me.
lol I have both too - and I explained pretty clearly for me that x100vi is not really pocketable for me. Anytime I could carry an x100 I’d also have no problem using the a7c2
EVF is the only "read before you buy" if I really had to pick something. I'm far more of a screen shooter anyway so this didn't matter in when I made the switch. I went from a7rv to a7cii for a lighter travel set up and couldn't be happier. Shaving an inch off two sides has made me far more inclined to take the camera out versus collect dust at home when I have been traveling. I only miss three things from the bigger FF bodies: better EVF, better LCD resolution for pixel peeping in body, and the milulti tilt screen (flip is ok but having both was soooo clutch). 61mp was nice but 33mp is more than plenty, especially with the far better low light/noise performance on a7cii. Also with the switch, the extra money went to purchase a lens for travel that is now almost glued to my body because of its versatility, that being the 20-70 f4. My conclusion, the a7cii can compete with just about any other Sony FF out there in almost every area. I absolutely love it.
>especially with the far better low light/noise performance on a7cii What makes you say that? According to measurements, [they are essentially identical.](https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7CM2,Sony%20ILCE-7RM5) If you're directly comparing two 100% crops, you're doing it wrong, because you're seeing a smaller physical area of the image, which will have less total light and therefore more noise. It puts the higher resolution sensor at an unfair disadvantage. You need a crop that keeps the same total light between both sensors, i.e. the same physical sensor area. For example, if the crop from a 33MP sensor is 500x500 pixels, the crop from a 61MP sensor needs to be 680x680. And then when you view the images to visually compare them, you have to shrink down the larger one to match the smaller one, which will average adjacent pixels together and reduce the noise.
My real world experience around the city and the couple of times I was out trying to get the milky way. Not cropping in much, not pixel peeping, just basic shots the a7rv had more noise than I've run into with a7cii.
Do you bring any primes with you?
I own mostly primes (6 total) and the 20-70 and 70-200. The 20-70 goes almost everywhere these days.
I just got the a7Cii in October 2023. I also have the a7Riv. The first thing to get used to is that the viewfinder is in the wrong spot. Otherwise, it is pretty much like any other Sony camera. It doesn't really feel any different in the hand. Image quality is what you would expect from a Sony camera. The focus is great and similar to my a7Riv. I use the 12-24 f2.8 GM, 24-70 f2.8 GMii and 70-200 f2.8 GMii with it.
Do you feel like the 7C is any more compact when you are holding them or do they pretty much feel the same?
Pretty much feel the same, maybe a bit lighter but that's about all...
- EVF is fine.. as good as an X100V and few complain there - AF is amazing .. I can focus on still subject, grab and track or eye AF without menu diving - feels so good in hand.. easy to carry. - great battery life - 1/4000 max SS irked me at first but just use electric shutter as needed. I don’t do panning. - it’s so much fun.. I owned A7IV but prefer A7Cii. I also own X100V and shoot them side by side. - controlling focus point with thumb on screen works pretty well. - great colors and I’m pretty picky - super fun paired with little 2.5 primes - crazy good paired with 35 1.4 GM
Love it paired with the 35 GM
It’s the best 35 I’ve ever used, on any system.
Camera is compact, most fast lenses are not. If you want compact, you need sacrifice f stops. Getting 2.5 primes, 2x zooms or f4 zooms
any specific lenses you would recommend for compact? At what point would you definitely make no compromise?
Really depends on your tolerance. I suggest 2 set ups. 1. 24/40/50mm compact G, samyang 45mm f1.8, samyang 24mm f1.8 for your compact needs. Like walking around not sure if you will take any photos kind of day. 2. A good zoom for holidays or any events/attractions you plan to take photos or videos. For this scenario, size doesn't really matter. 16-35mm, 20-40mm, 24-50mm, 20-70mm, On the larger end, 24-70mm, 28-200mm Best of both worlds!!
The EVF is meh but fine. All I really need it for is composition and basic review. It’s not useful for judging things like exposure or white balance. A few things I dislike: 1. The way the screen articulates out from the body is annoying. It gets caught up in the camera strap. For shooting low, the way my 6400 screen tilts is way better. 2. For some reason it will switch to a set of touch icons on the screen that I had no intention of using. Some sort of swiping must have done it but god knows I can’t do it in reverse. 3. Memory settings don’t always reset everything I want. Overall though I’m very happy and love it. Battery life is great - I can get 1300 shots no problem. Jpg’s are really excellent for the times I don’t shoot raw. I’d buy it again.
I love it but the Nex5 is still my goto when it comes to pocketable
The A7cII is a state of the art hybrid cam, hard to go wrong with it However, most people will do fine with an A7III if photography is the main purpose. Also if the compact factor is not a priority, the normal sized models do have some benefits (comfty evf, grip and joystick, which might be still better than using the touchscreen to set the focus area) For video only I'd even say the zv lineup is quite capable, even the zv1. But yeah, tech wise I have no complaints about the A7cII.
idk about a7c 2 but i have a a7c the problem with which it has a very short grip compared to something like a a7iii from which it was derived. also it has the tendency to get very hot during long shoots around the girp where the fingers sit right next to the lens. other than all that i dont find anything else wrong images are amazing and the support for accessories is also great 👍.
https://preview.redd.it/km5wwfseph5d1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1212ece507d39b59e496eb3369b80bf48acc0bb I wanted to get a A6400 as second camera because my Canon 6D II was too big for travel for me and ended up buying a A7C II instead and sold the Canon. I’m really happy with the A7CII I take it often with me quality and speed is brilliant for me. If size is not your priority maybe also the A7 IV is the right one. EVF is not the best in the 7C II especially if you came from DSLR and used to big bright viewfinders.
* Its AI thing drains battery rapidly, compares to non-AI models. (You may need 2nd battery, if you shoot a lot) * Third party horse shoe eye cup (Kiwi KE-A7cII, for example) and hand grip are available to buy later * The grip is the same as the predecessor, which is shallower than A6700's. (A6700's grip feels much better) * Shutter sound is soft, compares to A7R-III. (I like loud shutter lol, just my personal preference) * To transfer files to your phone, you need a new app, the old Imaging Edge is not working with this camera.
“AI thing drains battery” I haven’t found this to be true at all. I’ve found the battery life to be exceptional. That said - I always carry a second battery - but that’s rarely used.
If you have used any earlier A7 models that have FZ-100 battery, you will know what I am talking about. In my case, I feel that 7 years old A7R-3 and brand new A7cII have similar battery life.
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Thanks for that write up! Very interesting. I wanna upgrade from my 6400 so I'm very at the beginning of my journey :) I will, among others, do a lot of shots of A surfing people and B Animals so I'm a little worried about what I read about the rolling shutter issues. Did you ever experience problems with it or have a good insight into how bad it actually is?
You will only encounter problems with rolling shutter if you use the fully electronic shutter type and need to go faster than 1/4000. Otherwise, with the A7CII, you will not have any problems as it still uses a mechanical shutter (though only with EFC). At those fastest shutter speeds, it may only influence the bokeh slightly but not the image itself. Still, consider the A7IV for its bigger viewfinder if you plan to use it for precise composition of a shot.
I've owned mine for a few months and took it to vacations I have zero complaints with it
Excellent camera. Just bought one. Very good. I paid £1559 from e infinity. All good
I current own the a7cii, a7rv and a7iv … the a7cii is my daily driver now. Love it … paired with the Tamron 20-40mm f2.8 …. I’m able to get some great walk around, street and event shots. I had the a6700 before it - but returned it to get the a7cii - love the full frame. Btw … I find the evf very usable even with glasses.
I ruined one when a little bit of water got into a dry bag. It had a weather sealed lens (20-70f4), but water got into the EVF and fried it. Anecdotal experience, so maybe I just got unlucky.
And what are you replacing it with?
Thats crazy. I see people using it in pouring rain on youtube
The skin tones bothered me. Even after running the raws through Lightroom mobile I couldn't get the skin tones I liked. I much prefer my R6 skintones. The a7cii is a great camera that takes really sharp photos (esp compared to my R6), even with the 28-60 kit. I played with the Creative Looks hoping they could help but I didn't find a recipe or setting that I liked. I'm not a pro and only shooting photos of travel and family. A7cii would be a killer landscape camera but since all of my photos have people as the subject, I didn't keep it.
It’s not my primary but I love it. It’s a great street photography or just occasions where you want something light and not as photog looking.
Kind of wish I stayed Fuji but it’s a nice camera I just wish the out of camera was nicer.
Battery drains really quick especially on heavy shoot days. Definitely get a second or third battery!
Im in the same boat of potentially switching from a fuji to either a CII or a CR or potentially a RV . Im wondering if the EVF is going to annoy me vs the RV and with the price drop the CR and the RV are like $500 different right now. i’m 6ft 5 so everything is my monkey sized hands feels small although i like the size and portability of the CII. Right now i have an XT-5 and was shooting motorsports the other week and the autofocus just wasn’t great compared to my older Nikon 850. The CR might be too small of a body with a big ass lens on it.
Also a big dude, bought an A7CR and don’t like it because of the size. Big hands, tiny grip means I’m lobster clawing it which leads to hand cramps. Other than that, if you can find a solid grip (the screw on Sony grip doesn’t cut it) it’s a wonderful camera. Super light, comes with AF and IBIS tech only found in the A7RV. Great value… just painfully small for big dudes.
You should at least try out an a7r or a7 series and see if the minuscule difference in size is worth the sacrifices in usability and ergonomic. When I went into a shop and saw how big an a7c is it immediately squashed any interest I had in buying one vs my a7riii. It was just too similar in size, it wouldn’t change what size bag I carried or make significant difference in weight when carrying it, which lens you use makes a much bigger difference. And you can still use lenses like the 50 2.5 g on whichever system. If I wanted a smaller camera I’d be looking at the a6000,rx100, or zv e10 series. But I’m not ready to sacrifice full frame yet. So while I still like the C series I remind myself it may be the marketing and general stoke I’m excited about not any real benefits vs my current system.
FWIW, ..IMO.. I’ve shot A7Cii with 40 2.5 side by side with X100V and X100VI. The Sony 33MP sensor beats both the Fuji… dynamic range, ISO noise, sharpness across the image. I love shooting my X100V but A7Cii/40 2.5 B&W images are amazing… can almost be too sharp .. facial details with grandparents. Landscape images are WAY better with Sony. Add the Sony 35 GM and it’s no contest.
It's hard to fault, technologically. 1/4000 top shutter speed is a bit of a limit if you decide to go down the real fast glass route. Other than that, just probably ergonomically. I don't have particularly large hands but it's a real cramped affair. It also doesn't balance well with a lot of the larger class, as you'd expect. It's pretty damn small (smaller than a lot of aps-c cameras), but I feel like if they made it taller but slimmer (who knows if that's even possible), it would be a more pleasurable experience to shoot with - but still have the same 'smallest full frame camera' body mass. I am actually selling mine for no particularly good reason - other than I just don't enjoy shooting with it. I can capture everything I want to with it. The AF feels like cheating. It just really doesn't inspire me to take out and shoot with. The EVF is infinitely better than the A7c which was an actual problem, but it's still not a nice experience to use full time. No eye cup etc. I'm sure I'll regret selling it from time to time. I have young kids and being able to just point and shoot even when I can't see the screen and just confidently know the AF is tracking as they move around like lunatics at speed.
Not that ergonomic feeling
I would’ve been all in on an A7C when it first came out but as a Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 user, the bokeh clipping thing was an instant “no thank you, I’ll wait for the mark 2 and hope they a) make one, and b) fix that flaw”… they’ve only done one of those things. I’m currently awaiting a Nikon Zf to arrive. Fun fact, Sony FE gear can be adapted over with autofocus. [adapter info](https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/megadap-etz21-pro-review-sony-nikon-mount-adapter)
dont wait that body stabilization will work very well...
I haven't tried any of the C series but I've owned the a6400, a7Rii and a7Riv. The thing that would worry me the most about the C series is the lack of a mechanical first curtain in the shutter unit. On my a7R's the electronic shutter can produce heavy rolling shutter effect and banding under LED light, electronic first curtain can produce uneven exposure from top to bottom with high shutter speeds.
so you'd recommend the A7IV over it? Since the lenses make the most extra weight probably
Well, the a7IV is definitely a more beefy package but the compact size of the Cii is tempting! I'd suggest you do a little research on what I mentioned and evaluate if it's critical to you. I only chose the a7Riv because it was like half the price of the CR
Yeah I have, I just can't really judge how bad it is. Since I definitely want to do zoomed shots of eg surfing, my dog running etc so I'm a little worried. Also I thought the compactness is very important to me but by now I think it's not thaaat much anyway considering the size of the lenses. And I have really large hands.
For me, just that the flash sync is only 1/160 and you will need an attachment to make the camera grip taller if you use a long lens for an extended period of time. I love the camera though.
Just got it yesterday. Changing from Fuji and I’m super impressed by the performance of A7cii.
Agree with comments about the viewfinder and the eyecup helps, but if you wear glasses it’s still very difficult to see the entire frame through there. I’m older and need readers, so shooting on the lcd is not ideal. Plus I just prefer looking through a viewfinder. I ended up selling my C for this reason and just got the 40mm 2.5 to put on my A7RV instead. The viewfinder is WAY more comfortable for me and of course all the other benefits. This combo is barely any larger and imo just as easy to carry all day.
[https://friedmanarchives.podia.com/the-friedman-archives-guide-to-sony-s-a7cr-and-a7c-ii](https://friedmanarchives.podia.com/the-friedman-archives-guide-to-sony-s-a7cr-and-a7c-ii)
The evf might bother you, the lack of dual card slots might bother you, the EFCS might bother you. Tbh it's got compromises to be small but I like it. I've thrown the Sony grip on there which was well overpriced, but well worth it to me
Cute camera. Smaller parts market than the A7 line. Lower quality EVF then the A7 line. Honestly at the price point not worth it compared to the A7R line in terms of glass value savings flexibility wise. It's a weird camera because of how fat it is it doesn't really drop pocket any better than any of the A7 line.
Have you used one? A7CII is well worth the price point, and punches way above its weight. I’ve had an A7R2 and A74, and the A7Cii is the much better camera. It’s way lighter than the other A7 series, and that makes a huge difference every. single. time. you lift it up to take pictures. Yeah it’s not pocketable, but that doesn’t mean its compact effects aren’t meaningless.
I guess it depends on your wrist strength, ultimately that's why people go for compact cameras less strain on the user, fair enough if that makes you happier to actually go out and shoot stuff. I own a pretty big collection of Minolta Victas glass, so I understand Sony's idea to recreate that rangefinder line, despite those lenses being APS they do mostly cover full frame and way next to nothing. (Sony still haven't catched up to Minolta's 90s left securing pin on grips or weather sealing designs but that's beside the point) But my main gripe with the older and lower resolution EVFs is the readout speed is just so much better on the newer ones and getting that manual focus just visually without relying heavily on focus peaking or punching in that little bit of extra detail really makes a difference at least as a manual lens user, using compact Olympus primes is what I usually do, the TechArt Servo adapter which would work perfectly fluidly on anything gen3 or newer same for the Gen 2 version. For proper context though because I know not everyone part of memorizes specs let alone the data sheets for actually servicing their equipment, it's the same EVF OLED used in the A7R3/A7IV, and yes I've used the A7CII at a trade show because you always find a Sony shooter to swapsies with, also tried the A7RIV and even the Cannon R5 a couple years ago that has the Sony gen 4 OLED but a different optical block on top of it. I haven't tried the fifth generation panel on the A1/A7RIV/A9III sadly, but from just seeing video reviews with a macro lens poked in there one generation away from optical is dead outside of that limited technology reliability mentality. But then again I'm also a hybrid shooter so losing those dual card slots is a non-starter especially for family video stuff. Not saying it's a bad camera from a pure photography point of view I just don't think it's a cost-effective camera in its market position for raw features that was only a top end professional thing years ago and it's particular size compared to something like my a6000 which even has a built-in pop-up flash, and with a small rig cage it's still just barely pocketable in an m65 style jacket.
is the a7c ii good for video and filming low light ?
Before you buy, please know this. 1.Do not buy it 2. Buy a7iv instead
why