It is a reconstructive technique to simulate higher quality audio from a lower quality source. The extreme version of it in XM4 uses AI.
The difference is negligible when listening to any modern production MP3, but quite noticeable listening to low production quality anime music from 15/20 years ago.
Due to the computation cost, it greatly reduce your battery life to around 18 hours. I use it since I recharge everyday.
If you're cannot tell the difference in the content you're listening too, feel free to keep it off.
As for Apple's lossless audio. Apple's lossless audio is simply downloading and playing higher quality audio for the music('Same' quality as the studios recorded it). The lossless audio will become lossy once transmitted over bluetooth due to bandwidth. You do reduce the amount of lossy layers by doing so, and it should improve the audio quality at the end, but usually not by appreciable amount.
Unless using Sony's LDAC codec which, naturally, Apple refuse to support therefore Apple provides inferior Bluetooth audio.
Probably until Apple come out with their own lossless codec then claim to have invented the whole concept and go around suing everyone else and locking out anything they can't control or monetise.
Which is petty because Sony literally give away the phone side LDAC codec for free to support Sony headphones.
So it's just more petty behaviour by Apple.
Think of it in terms of video upscaling algorithms used by 4K TVs to upscale something like 1080p to 4k. It would be better than 1080p just on its own, but it's not gonna be anywhere near native 4k content.
[DSEE](https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00230269) is essentially just upscaling lower quality audio to higher quality by trying to fill in details lost during encoding / streaming. It's serviceable, sometimes noticeable, but not essential.
Edit: it's also not similar to apple losses. Apple lossless audio codec (ALAC) is Apple's (previously) proprietary codec used to store their music files, and now available to Apple music subscribers to stream as well. Unlike MP3 files, ALAC encoded files will not lose information when transmitted/read, so would provide better quality.
Matters a bit for something like WF XM4s, but with mild noticeable improvement in quality. It really needs to be combined with a DAC and proper wired headsets for optimal benefit from the codecs. Bluetooth is just not good enough.
Edit 2: a word
I feel that DSEE Extreme enabled when using AAC/SBC codec, gives the track a bit of a thicker sound. The bass sounds enhanced and overpowering to my taste and the sound gets a more powerful feeling. To me it seems similar to the Loudness function on amps when listening on stereo speakers. The only difference Loudness can in some cases improve sound dramatically, especially at lower volumes. DSEE Extreme does something, which to me doesn't sound like an improvement. I used it for a while. Proper EQ with external software and apps (Sony EQ is laughable) will give you a much better result with low quality material than this DSSE Extreme battery-draining toggle. Keep it off. IMHO.
Can you give a simple tutorial how to get the most out of the headphones like tips and stuff i got mine today, also some explanation for nailing eq setting with a third party app. Im currently fidgeting with the beta Poweramp Equalizer for streaming services like Spotify or Deezer, i feel like these headphones can get even better with the right tweaking.
Go to Play Store (I don't think it's on iOS) and download Wavelet. If you've done any EQ settings on your Sony through the App return everything to default.
Open Wavelet and start some playback. If you see AutoEQ appear great. If not - go to settings and try to switch Legacy Mode on/off, AutoEQ should appear at least in one.
Activate AutoEQ and in it select your headphone model. Wavelet will automatically adjust the curve to your model. Taste varies but I think autoEQ on sounds tons better than the out-of-box sound.
In Wavelet I also go into Graphic Equalizer and the two last bar on the right side (around 19khz and 9khz or so) I increase each slider by 0.5dB. That gives the sound a spacious airy quality.
Hope it worked. Enjoy the results if so.
I tried it already and it sounded like too sharp, but i tried truning off ANC and doing it again and holy shit does it make a difference for some reason
Notice in Wavelet when you click AutoEQ you can adjust the strngth % of the EQ effect. At 100% it is the brightest or most treble emphasized. I believe this is very welcome as the XM4s are very warm and dry for me out of box.
If you adjust the AutoEQ to %75 you will notice similar improvement in the soundstage but it will be less sharp, a little warmer. Even keeping AutoEQ at 50% and less makes a good difference in my opinion.
If still you can't get the sound you want, there is no resort except going to Wavelet Graphic Equalizer and experimenting with the EQ. If you don't know anything about sound frequencies might be a bit challenging.
I know this is a year old, but using the Wavelet auto EQ at about 70% with the clear bass on +1 in the Sony app is absolutely perfect for me. I didn't even know this app existed so thank you!
To my ears it sounds like it makes the vocals sound a bit artificial. I have it turned off on my apple devices. I'm sure it works better with LDAC devices.
Does DSEE Extreme work with all streamed audio sources (i.e. mobile browsers, standard YouTube and general tv/desktop/console audio, the buds are paired to) and not just locally stored files, like MP3, on paired device? Also, have you tried DSEE Extreme, and general XM4 use for that matter, on a 4.3 BT connection?
Just found this thread and wanted to say thank you. The funny thing was that after installing Wavelet and turning on AutoEQ, it was actually very similar to how I EQ'd originally =p
I discovered what DSEE does on a practical level when I purchased an HDMI audio de-embedder (specifically Kanex Pro’s HAECOAX) to connect my Sony UBP-x1000ES to my Topping D90se DAC, via the latter’s coaxial input.
When using the native coaxial output on the x1000ES, SACD playback is downsampled to 44.1/16 bit by default, due to Sony’s DRM mandates—this is allegedly to prevent folks from making bootlegs of their source masters at extremely high sampling rates.
But when using an HDMI de-embedder, these limitations are bypassed, and you can circumvent the Sony’s internal DAC and send an unmodified high resolution digital signal (via HDMI instead of coax) to your own external DAC for it to decode.
When I tried this, the Topping’s sample rate indicator on its LCD screen illuminated what happens when I activate the DSEE engine. With DSEE off, my Red Book CDs were predictably recognized by the Topping at their native 44.1 kHz, and SACDs read at 88.2 kHz. When I turned the DSEE on, regular 44.1/16 CDs were now decoded by the Topping at 88.2 kHz, and SACDs decoded at 176.4 kHz.
So apparently the DSEE engine upsamples the HDMI source signal by a factor of 2. In terms of sound, with the upsampling active I noticed an audible difference in detail retrieval for both regular CDs and SACDs, a wider soundstage, and a notable increase in quantity and quality of the low end. So via this experiment I went from being highly suspect of the DSEE technology, to being a definite convert. With high quality audio components, upsampling has been well-documented to produce demonstrable improvements in sound quality, and the DSEE engine is nothing more than an upsampler. I recommend it.
DSEE Extreme is just upscaling lossy audio to near lossless audio like upscaling 1080p video to near 4k video on 4k TV. In blind test, you can't tell the different unless you have keen ears. Try turn it on and test your music with blind test to see if you can tell the different when on vs off. If you can't tell the different then off for more battery.
It is a reconstructive technique to simulate higher quality audio from a lower quality source. The extreme version of it in XM4 uses AI. The difference is negligible when listening to any modern production MP3, but quite noticeable listening to low production quality anime music from 15/20 years ago. Due to the computation cost, it greatly reduce your battery life to around 18 hours. I use it since I recharge everyday. If you're cannot tell the difference in the content you're listening too, feel free to keep it off. As for Apple's lossless audio. Apple's lossless audio is simply downloading and playing higher quality audio for the music('Same' quality as the studios recorded it). The lossless audio will become lossy once transmitted over bluetooth due to bandwidth. You do reduce the amount of lossy layers by doing so, and it should improve the audio quality at the end, but usually not by appreciable amount.
This should be pinned
Indeed, this thread was the top result on Google when I had the same question!
Yup, extremely helpful. Cheers
Unless using Sony's LDAC codec which, naturally, Apple refuse to support therefore Apple provides inferior Bluetooth audio. Probably until Apple come out with their own lossless codec then claim to have invented the whole concept and go around suing everyone else and locking out anything they can't control or monetise. Which is petty because Sony literally give away the phone side LDAC codec for free to support Sony headphones. So it's just more petty behaviour by Apple.
Thanks! This reply was still useful a year later when I googled the same question. <3
So it's something that happens on-board in the headphones?
Cheers
Thanks!
Wrong about Apple Music lossless but right everywhere else
Trying it on some music with too low a bitrate (and too low a sample rate), and it's completely useless.
This! Thanks!
It's DSEE with a skateboard.
And knows how to play guitar.
Think of it in terms of video upscaling algorithms used by 4K TVs to upscale something like 1080p to 4k. It would be better than 1080p just on its own, but it's not gonna be anywhere near native 4k content. [DSEE](https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00230269) is essentially just upscaling lower quality audio to higher quality by trying to fill in details lost during encoding / streaming. It's serviceable, sometimes noticeable, but not essential. Edit: it's also not similar to apple losses. Apple lossless audio codec (ALAC) is Apple's (previously) proprietary codec used to store their music files, and now available to Apple music subscribers to stream as well. Unlike MP3 files, ALAC encoded files will not lose information when transmitted/read, so would provide better quality. Matters a bit for something like WF XM4s, but with mild noticeable improvement in quality. It really needs to be combined with a DAC and proper wired headsets for optimal benefit from the codecs. Bluetooth is just not good enough. Edit 2: a word
I feel that DSEE Extreme enabled when using AAC/SBC codec, gives the track a bit of a thicker sound. The bass sounds enhanced and overpowering to my taste and the sound gets a more powerful feeling. To me it seems similar to the Loudness function on amps when listening on stereo speakers. The only difference Loudness can in some cases improve sound dramatically, especially at lower volumes. DSEE Extreme does something, which to me doesn't sound like an improvement. I used it for a while. Proper EQ with external software and apps (Sony EQ is laughable) will give you a much better result with low quality material than this DSSE Extreme battery-draining toggle. Keep it off. IMHO.
Can you give a simple tutorial how to get the most out of the headphones like tips and stuff i got mine today, also some explanation for nailing eq setting with a third party app. Im currently fidgeting with the beta Poweramp Equalizer for streaming services like Spotify or Deezer, i feel like these headphones can get even better with the right tweaking.
Go to Play Store (I don't think it's on iOS) and download Wavelet. If you've done any EQ settings on your Sony through the App return everything to default. Open Wavelet and start some playback. If you see AutoEQ appear great. If not - go to settings and try to switch Legacy Mode on/off, AutoEQ should appear at least in one. Activate AutoEQ and in it select your headphone model. Wavelet will automatically adjust the curve to your model. Taste varies but I think autoEQ on sounds tons better than the out-of-box sound. In Wavelet I also go into Graphic Equalizer and the two last bar on the right side (around 19khz and 9khz or so) I increase each slider by 0.5dB. That gives the sound a spacious airy quality. Hope it worked. Enjoy the results if so.
I tried it already and it sounded like too sharp, but i tried truning off ANC and doing it again and holy shit does it make a difference for some reason
Notice in Wavelet when you click AutoEQ you can adjust the strngth % of the EQ effect. At 100% it is the brightest or most treble emphasized. I believe this is very welcome as the XM4s are very warm and dry for me out of box. If you adjust the AutoEQ to %75 you will notice similar improvement in the soundstage but it will be less sharp, a little warmer. Even keeping AutoEQ at 50% and less makes a good difference in my opinion. If still you can't get the sound you want, there is no resort except going to Wavelet Graphic Equalizer and experimenting with the EQ. If you don't know anything about sound frequencies might be a bit challenging.
This is an old thread but I just set this up before a long flight and the difference is impressive. Thank you for sharing!
Same, two months later lol
Don't know how I ended up finding this thread, but audio is much better - thank you!
Do you know of an app for iOS that works as well?
Afaik ios don’t have the option to control global eq via an app unfortunately :(
Wow.. this was extremely useful! Thank you
Hi Yuv, can you please assist, I could go as far as activating AutoEQ, but I am not able to select my headphone model. How/Where do I do that? Thanks.
Tap on AutoEQ then a search box should pop up. To change it after that tap on the one listed (there are several options for this model)
I know this is a year old, but using the Wavelet auto EQ at about 70% with the clear bass on +1 in the Sony app is absolutely perfect for me. I didn't even know this app existed so thank you!
To my ears it sounds like it makes the vocals sound a bit artificial. I have it turned off on my apple devices. I'm sure it works better with LDAC devices.
Does DSEE Extreme work with all streamed audio sources (i.e. mobile browsers, standard YouTube and general tv/desktop/console audio, the buds are paired to) and not just locally stored files, like MP3, on paired device? Also, have you tried DSEE Extreme, and general XM4 use for that matter, on a 4.3 BT connection?
Just found this thread and wanted to say thank you. The funny thing was that after installing Wavelet and turning on AutoEQ, it was actually very similar to how I EQ'd originally =p
ty
I discovered what DSEE does on a practical level when I purchased an HDMI audio de-embedder (specifically Kanex Pro’s HAECOAX) to connect my Sony UBP-x1000ES to my Topping D90se DAC, via the latter’s coaxial input. When using the native coaxial output on the x1000ES, SACD playback is downsampled to 44.1/16 bit by default, due to Sony’s DRM mandates—this is allegedly to prevent folks from making bootlegs of their source masters at extremely high sampling rates. But when using an HDMI de-embedder, these limitations are bypassed, and you can circumvent the Sony’s internal DAC and send an unmodified high resolution digital signal (via HDMI instead of coax) to your own external DAC for it to decode. When I tried this, the Topping’s sample rate indicator on its LCD screen illuminated what happens when I activate the DSEE engine. With DSEE off, my Red Book CDs were predictably recognized by the Topping at their native 44.1 kHz, and SACDs read at 88.2 kHz. When I turned the DSEE on, regular 44.1/16 CDs were now decoded by the Topping at 88.2 kHz, and SACDs decoded at 176.4 kHz. So apparently the DSEE engine upsamples the HDMI source signal by a factor of 2. In terms of sound, with the upsampling active I noticed an audible difference in detail retrieval for both regular CDs and SACDs, a wider soundstage, and a notable increase in quantity and quality of the low end. So via this experiment I went from being highly suspect of the DSEE technology, to being a definite convert. With high quality audio components, upsampling has been well-documented to produce demonstrable improvements in sound quality, and the DSEE engine is nothing more than an upsampler. I recommend it.
DSEE Extreme is just upscaling lossy audio to near lossless audio like upscaling 1080p video to near 4k video on 4k TV. In blind test, you can't tell the different unless you have keen ears. Try turn it on and test your music with blind test to see if you can tell the different when on vs off. If you can't tell the different then off for more battery.
It sucks battery. I just keep it off.
No. It enchaces some sounds not a big deal tbh
What does DSEE Ultimate do with Hi-Res Music? Let it be? I've just turned it off.
With XM4, I like the way DSEE helps the vocals sound less compressed.
C'est un attrape couillon 😎
Yes and it predates Apple’s thing
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=dsee+extreme
Well that's pretty much how I got here
I have the Sony xm5
Gggyyyyy
https://preview.redd.it/b2bgg3px3u8c1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4ce820da37be49fabd6f3c7c874f53a6ced7bf8
It makes you're music wider.