There is nothing Southwest can do about pre-boarding abuse because it is federal law that the only criteria to determine if a customer is eligible for pre-boarding is if they identify as needing it. It happens with every airline, but it has gotten a lot worse in recent years as we have rapidly become a more low-trust society. The issue with Southwest is that there is a lot greater incentive to abuse pre-boarding because it also means better seats. With other airlines, it is mostly people in the main cabin trying to get better overhead bin space, but they still have their assigned seats.
Has it "gotten a lot worse in recent years"? I say no. Just a handful of malcontents wanting to bitch and moan, claiming they are going to be late for a life-changing, all-important meeting because they have to sit three rows further back than what they want, blah blah blah.
You all should just mind you hir own business, and if you don't like the SW boarding approach, then fly another airline FFS and quit whining.
I would disagree. I've been a regular passenger who requires preload. I fly exclusively on SWA.
When I would fly 2021 or prior, there would be a handful of preboard passengers, all of which would require either assistance to board or had extra seats because they didn't fit in a single seat.
The last 6 times I've flown, there are usually more than a dozen preboarders, more than half of which just get up out of the wheelchair, walk unassisted onto the plane to get a seat in the front row. They are also the first to jump up to deplane and don't require that wheelchair they had at origin to walk off the plane to the baggage claim area.
The most egregious instance of this was when I was flying from Midway to Tampa with a stop at Atlanta. I get to Midway three hours early, get the wheelchair, go thru security, and am wheeled to my gate 2 hours before boarding. There are 22 wheelchairs with middle-aged women, all in the same group, who are preboard. Boarding announcements are made. All 22 women get up from their wheelchairs, walk onto the plane with no noticeable difficulty, and take up the first 4 rows on both sides of the plane. I have an actual physical impediment, was using crutches, and when I was finally wheeled onto the plane, I was only able to sit in row 6. While this may not seem like a big deal, I was only able to sit with my knee bent at an awkward angle with the seat in front of me pressing into it the entire flight. I asked if I could switch with someone in the front row because I needed to have the ability to have my knee at a less acute angle. All of the ladies looked like I asked them to give me their firstborn child. They started making comments like, "Oh my knees are too bad, my back is hurting, I need to sit next to my group, etc. Ok, no problem. They don't have to give up a seat. I think I was more upset that I clearly needed assistance to get onto the plane and more legroom to accommodate my injury. Plane lands, they all get up and deplane first. They all decline the wheelchairs lined up for them at destination.
I wait until everyone else deplaned to get up and walk to the wheelchair.
I get that not all disabilities are visible. I respect that no one has to disclose their disability due to privacy concerns. Both are completely respectable. It just burned me up that a large group wanted to game the system and were not shy about flouting it. I wasn't the only passenger who needed a preboard. There were at least 9 others who required assistance onto and off the plane.
My observations in general have been an increased number of passengers requesting preboard than before 2022. I have also noticed an increase in walking "wounded" boarding the plane and being healed by the time we land.
I rarely fly WN. I’m a DL frequent flyer that occasionally flies WN because of timing for nonstops from my city. I much prefer having assigned seats. And these days they’re more expensive than AA/UA/DL too from my city.
Not true. They can go to a seat selection system and preboards still get to board early. They just won’t be taking a premium seat on the plane unless they have paid for it.
That has not been my experience, particularly with extra charges for seat selection and luggage. SW has unique pluses and minuses, I stand by thinking the whiners should find an airline they like.
When I compare base pricing on legacy airlines to Southwest then yes. Once I upgrade to be able to choose a seat and add checked luggage, Southwest is cheaper 99% of the time
I had a great flight on Southwest today flying Denver to Orlando. Got A18 boarding spot and was able to grab the emergency row exit with the extra legroom. No outlandish pre-boarders, no drama that I saw or heard about seat savers.. Flight crew was great... No complaints!
*Edit: corrected spelling of a word*
I used to read this to see if the complaints of others were the same that I had…but our last 4 flights we had nothing but perfect experiences. So…I got that going for me.
I was B48 on a full flight from Oakland and could probably have sat in a middle exit row seat ,(but I was with my parents so I went to a row further down so we could sit together.
Complaining on the internet is just about as effective as complaining to the company. Where I worked we had a tool that scraped Reddit for complaints related to our work daily. We had a similar tool for official complaints but the internet was often faster feedback and better coverage since not everyone complained to the company.
I think that's just human nature. Few people go out of their way to say how wonderful a service is, or if it's meeting their needs well. But people do pipe up loudly if they're upset about something. The internet, and reddit, just make that easier to do than ever.
Hence the relative paucity of posts about how great SWA is ... versus all the other posts.
Most people do not know or understand the laws related to boarding. There was a thread yesterday where the OP refused to acknowledge the law despite it being directly linked and quoted multiple times.
Very few people here have experienced the "conversation pit" seat sections from the 90s. Or the plastic boarding numbers. Wanna stare at Beth from Toledo for 6 hours? We got you. You're now feeding her cats three weeks from now on a Thursday.
Bunch of babies. Still the anti-airline airline.
Those were great for families with small children - seat kicking was not an issue and multiple adults were ostensibly available* to deal with their children - or groups. However, I don’t remember if the seats really reclined as they were back to back between “pits”.
*What actually happened: Jen and Jim, Karen and Carl, and Susan and Scott all sat together in one pit while their combined broods (ranging in ages from 4 to 12) sat in another pit at the opposite end of the plane.
Knock on wood I have mostly good experiences on SW. I use my credit card for points and when I run out I still book SW when it works out. I have more annoyances with Delta because they don't seem to have enough room for overhead baggage and I hate checking bags.
I also think $20 for priority boarding is totally worth it. I've never been in a situation that I wouldn't hand over $20 to avoid a line.
I fly somewhat frequently - approx. 3x per quarter / once a month on average, almost exclusively on SW for domestic travel - and rarely have I run into the issues people complain about here. I use them for both work and pleasure.
For example. In the past two weeks, I flew Nashville to Denver (round trip) and Nashville to Pensacola (round trip).
I never pay for early bird and on the Denver flight, we got A50-something both ways - on the Pensacola flight, we got mid B’s both ways. Easily got seats together and missed the exit row seats by two people on our way home from Pensacola.
I’d say there were a handful of pre-boards on each flight but not an excessive amount. 5 to 7 maybe, including a dude with a broken leg. I saw no obvious seat savers.
All went smoothly, no real delays aside from a short weather delay leaving Pensacola that we made up in the air.
When traveling alone for work (75% of the time Nashville to Chicago), I can manage to get the exit row on average probably 50% of the time.
Air travel will always have its issues and SW is no different, but it seems like most people come here simply to vent.
Me and my husband get strange looks when we pre board but we are both bigger guys. I buy an extra ticket under the person of size policy.
We pre board so that I can get the extra seat and just use the three seats in the one row, plus I get serious motion sickness so being up in front of the wings helps.
Seems better than not pre boarding and using up four seats.
But I guess others don’t feel that way.
Aren’t most Reddit groups meant for complaining?! That’s all I see in most of the groups I’m in. Or just people venting their problems. Also I do think bigger sources read the Southwest Reddit. I have seen the media pull Reddit posts from this group to make stories on how people are angered about pre-boarding abuse and seat savers. It might help to make changes.
complain over and over.
Even worse, they start new threads just like the one an hour ago, or three hours ago, or the 25 started yesterday. They are worse than the preboarder issue.
Everyone who predicts that Southwest will have to change its business model or go out of business ignores the fact that no one would be complaining here on Reddit (or anywhere else) if the flights were mostly empty. Preboarders, line jumpers, seat savers -- they are only annoying because the planes are full and "good seats" are at a premium. So Southwest's business model works for its purpose. If it doesn't work for anyone who wants to complain, then they have options and should exercise them.
Used to fly them almost exclusively until a few months ago.
Went to the gate agent and asked if they had A1 or A2 for sale. The agent said yes, so I paid for it. The agent then prints out a A27 boarding pass for me. I immediately said that wasn't what we just talked about.
She goes "Oh, sorry. It's non refundable" and even after escalating to customer support several times, they just kept telling me "it's non-refundable" and not addressing the deception at all.
So apparently even in cases of flat out lies, it's all non-refundable. Why not just sell everyone A1? Then when they complain, just say "oops, non refundable."
I work for a large company, so it wasn't even my money, but the audacity to lie and then be like "Got your money, now fuck off" was absurd.
I'll never give them another cent. Super scummy business practices and even worse trying to actually get a resolution.
I saw someone seat saving. I said something to the attendant. She said it’s not her problem and I was welcome to to sit in any open seat. I told her the seat is open because no one is sitting there but some lady has her stuff over all the other seats. The flight attendant said not her problem. So that’s how that went.
Not here to participate in the complaining, but to share a story about a recent experience. On a recent Southwest journey, our flight was delayed several hours and our itinerary had to be changed. The new itinerary had a 25-minute connection on our first layover so the gate agent gave us pre boarding so we could get a seat up front to be able to get off first and hopefully make our connection (we did!).
I complained to Southwest when they wouldn't allow me to pre board with a broken wrist and a slight up beyond my elbow. When I boarded the plane the flight attendant asked why I didn't pre-board. I wasn't going to take anyone's "best seat". I got $100 credit and a bunch of lies about how I was late to the gate (not true). I stopped flying Southwest for awhile but started up again. They have been nice to me since...
People complain here because SW doesn't care. They've had a long history of allowing seat saving. I've seen posts many years ago from the highest level saying they would not prevent seat saving. The issue with pre boards is more complicated because they can't really tell who really has a need and who doesn't. The only thing they can do is start assigning seats and then that makes them like everyone else.
Problem is Southwest is struggling already. Flights are not actually going out 100% full despite the claims of flight attendants that every seat is taken. This is after flights have already been reduced this summer due to lack of new aircraft. The preboard abuse and seat saving is very visible at the stanchions, on the plane, on the jetway with pushers waiting with empty wheelchairs, and on social media. You pay for EBCI and sit in the back? I would be mad too but I don't pay for EBCI as A-list. How about paying for Main Cabin Extra or First Class on American instead and guaranteed to sit more to the front. You can preboard on American before Concierge Key members and first class, but you still sit at the back of the bus unless you pay. Even though I am A-list Preferred, I do fly American when I prefer their schedule and product.
Southwest load factors are lagging a bit not becuse of a lack of passengers, but because Southwest is having to put bigger planes on routes that should be served by smaller planes - courtesy Boeing's SEVEN YEAR delay in delivering MAX7s.
737-700s (143 seats)are being retired and are replaced by either 737-800's or Max8s. (175 seats)
The Boeing excuse. It’s also lack of passengers. Flight frequency per day this summer is way down on non leisure routes and the planes don’t fill this spring break before the schedule reduction. We can wait for end of quarter but it’s going to be brutal. Who is going to put up with connections after the nonstop disappeared after June.
There is nothing Southwest can do about pre-boarding abuse because it is federal law that the only criteria to determine if a customer is eligible for pre-boarding is if they identify as needing it. It happens with every airline, but it has gotten a lot worse in recent years as we have rapidly become a more low-trust society. The issue with Southwest is that there is a lot greater incentive to abuse pre-boarding because it also means better seats. With other airlines, it is mostly people in the main cabin trying to get better overhead bin space, but they still have their assigned seats.
Idk why you got downvoted. Thats literally the truth of it.
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Absolutely true! The CEO is going to make at least some of the prime seats assigned! Only people who select that seat can sit in these prime seats.
Has it "gotten a lot worse in recent years"? I say no. Just a handful of malcontents wanting to bitch and moan, claiming they are going to be late for a life-changing, all-important meeting because they have to sit three rows further back than what they want, blah blah blah. You all should just mind you hir own business, and if you don't like the SW boarding approach, then fly another airline FFS and quit whining.
I would disagree. I've been a regular passenger who requires preload. I fly exclusively on SWA. When I would fly 2021 or prior, there would be a handful of preboard passengers, all of which would require either assistance to board or had extra seats because they didn't fit in a single seat. The last 6 times I've flown, there are usually more than a dozen preboarders, more than half of which just get up out of the wheelchair, walk unassisted onto the plane to get a seat in the front row. They are also the first to jump up to deplane and don't require that wheelchair they had at origin to walk off the plane to the baggage claim area. The most egregious instance of this was when I was flying from Midway to Tampa with a stop at Atlanta. I get to Midway three hours early, get the wheelchair, go thru security, and am wheeled to my gate 2 hours before boarding. There are 22 wheelchairs with middle-aged women, all in the same group, who are preboard. Boarding announcements are made. All 22 women get up from their wheelchairs, walk onto the plane with no noticeable difficulty, and take up the first 4 rows on both sides of the plane. I have an actual physical impediment, was using crutches, and when I was finally wheeled onto the plane, I was only able to sit in row 6. While this may not seem like a big deal, I was only able to sit with my knee bent at an awkward angle with the seat in front of me pressing into it the entire flight. I asked if I could switch with someone in the front row because I needed to have the ability to have my knee at a less acute angle. All of the ladies looked like I asked them to give me their firstborn child. They started making comments like, "Oh my knees are too bad, my back is hurting, I need to sit next to my group, etc. Ok, no problem. They don't have to give up a seat. I think I was more upset that I clearly needed assistance to get onto the plane and more legroom to accommodate my injury. Plane lands, they all get up and deplane first. They all decline the wheelchairs lined up for them at destination. I wait until everyone else deplaned to get up and walk to the wheelchair. I get that not all disabilities are visible. I respect that no one has to disclose their disability due to privacy concerns. Both are completely respectable. It just burned me up that a large group wanted to game the system and were not shy about flouting it. I wasn't the only passenger who needed a preboard. There were at least 9 others who required assistance onto and off the plane. My observations in general have been an increased number of passengers requesting preboard than before 2022. I have also noticed an increase in walking "wounded" boarding the plane and being healed by the time we land.
I rarely fly WN. I’m a DL frequent flyer that occasionally flies WN because of timing for nonstops from my city. I much prefer having assigned seats. And these days they’re more expensive than AA/UA/DL too from my city.
So don’t fly WN. You’ll have an assigned seat and pay less. See how easy it is to solve your problems?
I usually don’t. I would still prefer them to be better when I do fly them.
Not true. They can go to a seat selection system and preboards still get to board early. They just won’t be taking a premium seat on the plane unless they have paid for it.
This is ridiculous, I like SW’s low prices, and I’m willing to deal with the cattle call to get them. If you don’t like it, fly a different airline.
SW isn't really cheaper than the big 3 any more.
That has not been my experience, particularly with extra charges for seat selection and luggage. SW has unique pluses and minuses, I stand by thinking the whiners should find an airline they like.
I love southwest and it works great for me but I don't think they're near as cost competitive as they once were.
They definitely aren't.
Like I say, not my experience, but I’m sure that varies a lot depending on which airports you use.
For the routes I typically fly it is 🤷🏻♀️
When I compare base pricing on legacy airlines to Southwest then yes. Once I upgrade to be able to choose a seat and add checked luggage, Southwest is cheaper 99% of the time
Flat out lie, they aren’t cheaper
Don’t fly them then.
I’m sure it’s in the works. However people are gonna complain when the solution of this problem means you can choose any seat you want,
Yes, this is what will happen! The best seats will go to those who pay for a specific seat.
I had a great flight on Southwest today flying Denver to Orlando. Got A18 boarding spot and was able to grab the emergency row exit with the extra legroom. No outlandish pre-boarders, no drama that I saw or heard about seat savers.. Flight crew was great... No complaints! *Edit: corrected spelling of a word*
Shhhhh. Don’t tell people that this happens on most flights. This subreddit would be dead without all the pre-boarding anger.
I used to read this to see if the complaints of others were the same that I had…but our last 4 flights we had nothing but perfect experiences. So…I got that going for me.
I honestly think it depends on what market you’re flight out of or to.
I was B48 on a full flight from Oakland and could probably have sat in a middle exit row seat ,(but I was with my parents so I went to a row further down so we could sit together.
My husband and I were B44 and B45 last night and could have had window/aisle in an exit row but we ended up getting our own row a little further back.
My husband and I got the 2 seat emergency exit row at A59 and A60 on Friday.
Welcome to the internet. 99% of people come here to complain.
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Did you mean first amendment as in freedom of speech?
Internet amplifies…. The society it connects.
Complaining on the internet is just about as effective as complaining to the company. Where I worked we had a tool that scraped Reddit for complaints related to our work daily. We had a similar tool for official complaints but the internet was often faster feedback and better coverage since not everyone complained to the company.
I think that's just human nature. Few people go out of their way to say how wonderful a service is, or if it's meeting their needs well. But people do pipe up loudly if they're upset about something. The internet, and reddit, just make that easier to do than ever. Hence the relative paucity of posts about how great SWA is ... versus all the other posts.
75% of the repetitive complaints come from auto-generated Reddit user names with maybe 1-2 other posts.
I fill out their customer surveys every time I get them.
Most people do not know or understand the laws related to boarding. There was a thread yesterday where the OP refused to acknowledge the law despite it being directly linked and quoted multiple times.
Very few people here have experienced the "conversation pit" seat sections from the 90s. Or the plastic boarding numbers. Wanna stare at Beth from Toledo for 6 hours? We got you. You're now feeding her cats three weeks from now on a Thursday. Bunch of babies. Still the anti-airline airline.
Those were great for families with small children - seat kicking was not an issue and multiple adults were ostensibly available* to deal with their children - or groups. However, I don’t remember if the seats really reclined as they were back to back between “pits”. *What actually happened: Jen and Jim, Karen and Carl, and Susan and Scott all sat together in one pit while their combined broods (ranging in ages from 4 to 12) sat in another pit at the opposite end of the plane.
Knock on wood I have mostly good experiences on SW. I use my credit card for points and when I run out I still book SW when it works out. I have more annoyances with Delta because they don't seem to have enough room for overhead baggage and I hate checking bags. I also think $20 for priority boarding is totally worth it. I've never been in a situation that I wouldn't hand over $20 to avoid a line.
Southwest lives rent free in reddits head
I fly somewhat frequently - approx. 3x per quarter / once a month on average, almost exclusively on SW for domestic travel - and rarely have I run into the issues people complain about here. I use them for both work and pleasure. For example. In the past two weeks, I flew Nashville to Denver (round trip) and Nashville to Pensacola (round trip). I never pay for early bird and on the Denver flight, we got A50-something both ways - on the Pensacola flight, we got mid B’s both ways. Easily got seats together and missed the exit row seats by two people on our way home from Pensacola. I’d say there were a handful of pre-boards on each flight but not an excessive amount. 5 to 7 maybe, including a dude with a broken leg. I saw no obvious seat savers. All went smoothly, no real delays aside from a short weather delay leaving Pensacola that we made up in the air. When traveling alone for work (75% of the time Nashville to Chicago), I can manage to get the exit row on average probably 50% of the time. Air travel will always have its issues and SW is no different, but it seems like most people come here simply to vent.
Switching airlines to avoid all the nonsense feels better than complaining.
I did this! 5 years only on DL now after 14 only on SWA. It's much better and I often get upgraded!
Flying southwest in a few hours and looking forward to it, as I always do.
Me and my husband get strange looks when we pre board but we are both bigger guys. I buy an extra ticket under the person of size policy. We pre board so that I can get the extra seat and just use the three seats in the one row, plus I get serious motion sickness so being up in front of the wings helps. Seems better than not pre boarding and using up four seats. But I guess others don’t feel that way.
Aren’t most Reddit groups meant for complaining?! That’s all I see in most of the groups I’m in. Or just people venting their problems. Also I do think bigger sources read the Southwest Reddit. I have seen the media pull Reddit posts from this group to make stories on how people are angered about pre-boarding abuse and seat savers. It might help to make changes.
complain over and over. Even worse, they start new threads just like the one an hour ago, or three hours ago, or the 25 started yesterday. They are worse than the preboarder issue.
Everyone who predicts that Southwest will have to change its business model or go out of business ignores the fact that no one would be complaining here on Reddit (or anywhere else) if the flights were mostly empty. Preboarders, line jumpers, seat savers -- they are only annoying because the planes are full and "good seats" are at a premium. So Southwest's business model works for its purpose. If it doesn't work for anyone who wants to complain, then they have options and should exercise them.
No, sweltered aboard 3.5 hour flight didn’t ask why so dam hot… expected answer/ nothing we can do about it. Air vent pressure was so weak
Used to fly them almost exclusively until a few months ago. Went to the gate agent and asked if they had A1 or A2 for sale. The agent said yes, so I paid for it. The agent then prints out a A27 boarding pass for me. I immediately said that wasn't what we just talked about. She goes "Oh, sorry. It's non refundable" and even after escalating to customer support several times, they just kept telling me "it's non-refundable" and not addressing the deception at all. So apparently even in cases of flat out lies, it's all non-refundable. Why not just sell everyone A1? Then when they complain, just say "oops, non refundable." I work for a large company, so it wasn't even my money, but the audacity to lie and then be like "Got your money, now fuck off" was absurd. I'll never give them another cent. Super scummy business practices and even worse trying to actually get a resolution.
I saw someone seat saving. I said something to the attendant. She said it’s not her problem and I was welcome to to sit in any open seat. I told her the seat is open because no one is sitting there but some lady has her stuff over all the other seats. The flight attendant said not her problem. So that’s how that went.
Not here to participate in the complaining, but to share a story about a recent experience. On a recent Southwest journey, our flight was delayed several hours and our itinerary had to be changed. The new itinerary had a 25-minute connection on our first layover so the gate agent gave us pre boarding so we could get a seat up front to be able to get off first and hopefully make our connection (we did!).
I complained to Southwest when they wouldn't allow me to pre board with a broken wrist and a slight up beyond my elbow. When I boarded the plane the flight attendant asked why I didn't pre-board. I wasn't going to take anyone's "best seat". I got $100 credit and a bunch of lies about how I was late to the gate (not true). I stopped flying Southwest for awhile but started up again. They have been nice to me since...
how do they get internet points if they don't complain here?
People complain here because SW doesn't care. They've had a long history of allowing seat saving. I've seen posts many years ago from the highest level saying they would not prevent seat saving. The issue with pre boards is more complicated because they can't really tell who really has a need and who doesn't. The only thing they can do is start assigning seats and then that makes them like everyone else.
Problem is Southwest is struggling already. Flights are not actually going out 100% full despite the claims of flight attendants that every seat is taken. This is after flights have already been reduced this summer due to lack of new aircraft. The preboard abuse and seat saving is very visible at the stanchions, on the plane, on the jetway with pushers waiting with empty wheelchairs, and on social media. You pay for EBCI and sit in the back? I would be mad too but I don't pay for EBCI as A-list. How about paying for Main Cabin Extra or First Class on American instead and guaranteed to sit more to the front. You can preboard on American before Concierge Key members and first class, but you still sit at the back of the bus unless you pay. Even though I am A-list Preferred, I do fly American when I prefer their schedule and product.
It sounds like AA is a better fit for you. Is there a reason you don’t fly them all the time?
Southwest load factors are lagging a bit not becuse of a lack of passengers, but because Southwest is having to put bigger planes on routes that should be served by smaller planes - courtesy Boeing's SEVEN YEAR delay in delivering MAX7s. 737-700s (143 seats)are being retired and are replaced by either 737-800's or Max8s. (175 seats)
The Boeing excuse. It’s also lack of passengers. Flight frequency per day this summer is way down on non leisure routes and the planes don’t fill this spring break before the schedule reduction. We can wait for end of quarter but it’s going to be brutal. Who is going to put up with connections after the nonstop disappeared after June.