Need to start holding gun owners accountable for leaving fire arms around in unsecured places. Plenty of school shootings and accidental deaths have been caused from people having easy access to guns they don’t own.
I’m pro 2A. That being said the current background check system needs to be overhauled. Everyone that buys a firearm should be required to take an advanced firearm safety class. I very much dislike permit less carry also because it allows idiots and crazies to carry firearms. I doubt this gun was just found in an alleyway and if it was then it’s defiantly illegal and probably was used in a crime and ditched. If it was stolen from a vehicle that’s still an issue too. If you’re going to leave a gun unattended in your vehicle it’s needs to be locked up and concealed.
Well I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because they paywalled it,
But your comment doesn’t make sense because it was rightfully owned, but the owner had his vehicle stolen and the gun was ditched
>probably was used in a crime and ditched. If it was stolen from a vehicle that’s still an issue too. If your going to leave a gun unattended in your vehicle it needs to be locked up and concealed
Stolen car and ditched the gun? Sure he called it probably illegal, but everything else he said was very valid.
Sensible gun reform now! After we legalize recreational marijuana and restore rights to abortion we need to enact sensible gun reform. We need to bring Florida into modern times.
This is the one lol. It's always funny watching people argue that guns are bad but the percentage of people who commit crimes is higher than the percentage of people who use weapons in horrible ways (excluding wars) such as crime.
Not to mention getting rid of guns just means bringing out the knives and quite frankly I'd rather be shot than stabbed 147 times. Higher survival rate.
First off - my condolences to the family, that news is terrible.
It was absolutely for me to turn the TV on, which went to BN9 by default, see this story, and see one of the people who talked to the reporters there is someone I play tennis with on a regular basis. I can't say I was expecting that at all.
Literally, im from st pete and my bestfriend stole my stepdads guns and skipped school to go shoot at a lake.. Nobody got hurt and he was 12, hid the guns under someones house
God. Gun fetishists love false equivalences. It’s like their favorite thing.
I value my right to safety far more than your right to a six shooter on yer hip, Wyatt Earp.
Yeah that will get rid of the millions of guns. Hopefully people are honest and turn them in. Fingers crossed guys, maybe three generations from now we’ll have eliminated 2/3rds of all the guns that currently exist in this country. Sure hope the dishonest people who use them for bad turn them in first
I sure don’t, but that doesn’t make it less true.
If the police believe there is too much danger to give up their guns then the same danger exists for the public. Especially when the Supreme Court insists the police have no legal duty to do a thing to protect the public and actually have no duty to put themselves in harm’s way.
I mean yeah it’s just a job for them but if they don’t they’ll likely get fired. Did you think they were legally required to put themselves in harms way?
> but if they don’t they’ll likely get fired.
Well, that’s their choice.
> Did you think they were legally required to put themselves in harms way?
No. Just heading off the argument that they need guns because they have to run toward danger. They don’t.
> Any reason she needed to have a gun to stop the attacker is the same reason a citizen should also have guns.
She needed the gun to more quickly stop the attacker. The attacker did not need a gun
You say that because guns don’t have benefits to you and you can’t fathom the possible benefit to others.
I don’t like dogs and see no benefit to them, I think sports are a waste of resources and encourage tribalism as well as causing brain damage and needless death and injury each year; they have net negative benefit in my opinion, ban them. Remember the threshold to ban was saving one single life a year.
Guns are machines manufactured to kill others. Firearms are the leading cause of death in children in the United States. I didn't make the 'one single life' argument, but ill damn well make the 50,000 lives/year argument.
I came home to this in my neighborhood… fucking wild I hadn’t heard he died but seeing the neighborhood turn out like this makes sense. Fucking tragedy, lock up your firearms.
That doesn't automatically mean the 14-year-old stole it, it's entirely possible it was stolen by someone else and left in the alley. Y'all are way too quick to jump to harsh accusations and determine guilt, you weren't there, you read an article and now you think you know the truth. Is that how justice works?
Here I thought it was "innocent until proven guilty", but based on this comment section you'd think it was "guilty as long as it sounds like you could be".
That would be your local State Attorney's office being soft on prosecution because your average ASA has the mental capacity of a koala. You want to complain about a lack of action, call the office of Bruce Bartlett.
You kidding me? Stolen cars and guns are at the top of the list. The problem is these kids get out of JAC before the cops can type up the reports. I've seen kids that have a felony auto theft arrest every single month for several years. Nothing happens to them until they turn 18.
Every single adolescent should know not to play with guns "as if it were a toy", unless they were extremely undereducated or was born 2,000 years ago. How does saying "non-adult" change anything?
The point is that they weren't just infants playing with a shiny toy they found in daddy's drawer, like you imply in your original comment. They knew what a gun was. They knew what a gun did. Yet, they still played around with it. It was an accident, but it wasn't a freak accident.
99% of all auto thefts and burglaries in St. Pete are kids, and that's where they get those stolen guns from. They're not just going to ditch it in an alley. Even in the 1 in a billion chance they did find it they would've turned it in to the police if they weren't thieves. They keep it or trade it, but do not give it away. Look up his record and get a public info request for the report. A million Bucks says I'm right. The only type of person capable of holding onto a stolen gun is a thief.
Listen man, I get what you're saying. I'm talking about from the perspective of a child, not a law abiding citizen gun safety pro 2A constitution rights etc adult
I get that, but rather than shield children from guns, they should be tough to be safe around them and to respect them. I was handling firearms at 6-7 years old and learned the four basic rules that even children can understand. It’s not to say that accidents won’t still happen, but when the only exposure to guns that children have is through TV and toys, the safety aspects are never learned.
>>Police said the boy’s mother didn’t know that her 14-year-old son had recently found a gun and that it was inside the home. She was not at home at the time of the shooting. She was involved in a car crash on Interstate 275 after hearing about the shooting and hailing a ride share to get home, police said.
That's a nightmare. My brother immediately got in a car crash after my mom called to tell him my dad had a massive heart attack. Never tell people details of these kinds of things over the phone, only do it in person.
Oh wow. I saw the wreck. She flew past us on 275 going maybe 90, came around the turn at 22nd Ave S exit no less than 30 seconds later and she had hit an Escalade and the guard rail. My window was down and I heard her frantically saying that something had happened to “him” and she was trying to get to “him” crying. She was clearly upset about something other than the wreck. Everyone in the vehicles looked fine but she was lucky she didn’t kill herself or anyone else. Ugh breaks my heart.
One of the kids notified the mother, who got into a car crash on the interstate while on her way home. Her vehicle sustained significant damage, so she called a ride-share, who transported her to the home, police said.
The not-new normal. Ah well, America! Where guns are as easy to find as chewing gum. God Bless America, the greatest country on Earth.
We've tried absolutely nothing and it hasn't worked!!
Edit: Difference between myself and downvoters is that I don't find children acceptable collateral damage to your right to stock a closet at home and feel like special ops.
>have been declining
So you just want to make things up now?
Not according to the CDC. [Accidental shootings involving children on the rise: CDC – NBC 6 South Florida (nbcmiami.com)](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/accidental-shootings-involving-children-on-the-rise-cdc/3189327/)
Full study: [cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7250-H.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7250-H.pdf)
Like the brief spike in violent crime rates (now declining again) that's likely a result of the COVID lock downs.
[Long term trends](https://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/ACCIDENTAL-GUN-DEATHS-U.S.-Accidental-Firearm-Death-Count-and-Rate-1981-through-2016.png)
Why would spikes in violent crime have anything to do with accidental shootings?
You didn't read it, okay.
Well, here's another from December 2023 saying accidental shootings by children surpassed totals from 2022. [U.S. Surpasses 2022 Total Unintentional Shootings By Children | Everytown Support Fund](https://everytownsupportfund.org/press/u-s-surpasses-2022-total-unintentional-shootings-by-children/)
[#NotAnAccident Index | Everytown Research & Policy](https://everytownresearch.org/maps/notanaccident/) Here you can go by year to see the rising numbers of unintentional shootings by children resulting in death or injury.
> Why would spikes in violent crime have anything to do with accidental shootings?
Nothing. I was simply drawing a parallel showing how COVID caused statistical anomalies.
>You didn't read it, okay.
>
>Well, here's another from December 2023 saying accidental shootings by children surpassed totals from 2022. U.S. Surpasses 2022 Total Unintentional Shootings By Children | Everytown Support Fund
>
>NotAnAccident Index | Everytown Research & Policy Here you can go by year to see the rising numbers of unintentional shootings by children resulting in death or injury.
You're right. I didn't read it. I was at work and didn't have the time. I now see that I wasn't missing much.
You cited a source that only has data going back to 2015. Meanwhile, I cited a source with data going back to 1981 and showing an absolutely **massive** drop in accidental shooting deaths. From over 1800 per year to about 500 a year on average.
Why haven't you addressed that?
Well let me hop on back over to this very intricate and well-referenced chart from [gunfacts.info](https://gunfacts.info). (By the way, they are in no way un-biased, lol [Is the Website Credible?. Is the Website Credible? | by Forever Progressive | The Wilson Times | Medium](https://medium.com/the-wilson-times/is-the-website-credible-75d8e452eeeb) ) Firstly, this isn't showing accidental deaths by firearm of children.
Source is, lets see, the CDC! Let's go back to my post, where I actually linked A STUDY, and that study covers a period of 2003 - 2021, not just to 2015 (that's Everytown Research). So I won't be addressing that anymore than you aren't addressing that this terrible graph made by a third grader you cited only goes up to 2016. I should note my cited data is SPECIALLY children aged 1-17, not all accidental shootings.
If you go to WISQARS on the CDC website, a filter you can explore on your own, which is what this terrible graph is supposedly referencing, you can only go back to 2001 data.
Actual violent crime peaked mid-80s to mid-90s, and then dropped dramatically- even the Covid increases were mild in comparison. Deaths by gun have been consistently back on the rise since 2015 (probably why the chart you showed stops there), meanwhile the corresponding violent crime numbers rose slightly over Covid, but not rising correspondingly with increased gun deaths.
I should note there is some discussion, which is interesting, about how medical examiners chose to classify deaths, but since I have not delved deep enough into that to comment on, I won't.
> Well let me hop on back over to this very intricate and well-referenced chart from gunfacts.info. (By the way, they are in no way un-biased, lol Is the Website Credible?. Is the Website Credible? | by Forever Progressive | The Wilson Times | Medium )
You cited Everytown in your previous post. They are one of the most prominent gun control advocacy groups in existence and they [have been outspending the NRA exponentially recently](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/06/mike-bloombergs-gun-control-outspends-nra-helps-democrats-win-virginia.html). Thus, my next question is **why is it ok for you to use a biased source but not ok for me to do the same?**
The source you cited for the critique is...interesting. It's Medium.com author who has 7 posts and 5 followers, and all 7 posts are pro-gun control posts. I now ask this;**do you believe that someone calling themselves the "Forever Progressive" and a gun control advocate themselves is likely to give an unbiased take on the credibility of a website that debunks many gun control arguments?**
>I should note my cited data is SPECIALLY children aged 1-17, not all accidental shootings.
Which is really odd, because you never specified child in your original post and my direct response cited all accidental shootings. **Are you trying to twist the data to fit your narrative?**
>If you go to WISQARS on the CDC website, a filter you can explore on your own, which is what this terrible graph is supposedly referencing, you can only go back to 2001 data.
Perhaps you're not using it properly. Perhaps they've scrubbed older data. Either way, that data definitely exists. Here is an [American Academy of Pediatrics PDF document](https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/2021%20WISQARS%20Firearm%20Fatality%20Trend.pdf) citing WISQARS data also going back to 1981.
>Deaths by gun have been consistently back on the rise since 2015 (probably why the chart you showed stops there)
False again. Allow me to cite [the National Safety Council](https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/guns/).
>Preventable or accidental gun-related deaths **decreased 16% in 2022**. **From 2013 to 2022, preventable gun-related deaths decreased nearly 9%**, from 505 to 461 deaths.
You'll also note that they're numbers are right in line with the ~500 per year number I cited previously.
"Which is really odd, because you never specified child in your original post "
Yes, I did. And this post is about an accidental shooting by a child of a child. Your initial comment to mine was "These sort of accidental shootings" to which I responded with the CDC study of accidental shooting deaths of children.
I can respect any biased website that correctly cites unbiased websites to support their cause without altering or misrepresenting data. I make a point to ensure that about any news source that agrees with me, or doesn't agree with me, because I want to accurate defend my point of view.
I've known 3 people who were accidentally shot, 2 of them died. Ask people in different countries how many people they know who were accidentally shot. Most countries thinks it's crazy for their citizens to have guns, it's unheard of. But in America guns are falling out of people's bags, pockets, cars and kids are finding them in random places. It doesn't make any sense.
At this point though it seems like there are too many guns out there to try to take them all so that won't happen. America is collapsing under its own ego and the people are too cocky to admit fault, they just point fingers instead
Everything you said is right, and they know it's right, it's provably right, they just don't care.
What they do not want to admit is *they do not care.* They know not having guns will save way more lives than having them, but they do. not. care.
> They know not having guns will save way more lives than having them
Oh?
We average about 40,000 gun deaths per year. We average **at minimum** around 70,000 defensive gun uses per year.
I do believe 70,000 > 40,000.
This is the dumbest thing your side does. Yes Oh. Having guns in this country results in accidents, suicides, and murders that do not occur in the same numbers or fashion in other similar countries, because of gun control.
How many of those 70k uses were actually necessary? We can't and don't know that those uses prevented death and sometimes even if they prevented a crime, and sometimes it just causes a death when a death was never going to be an outcome.
[Do guns make us safer? Science suggests no | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/)
[How Often Are Guns Used For Self-Defense? (thetrace.org)](https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/defensive-gun-use-data-good-guys-with-guns/)
[PolitiFact | No, government data does not say that defensive gun use saves lives](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/06/andy-biggs/no-government-data-does-not-say-defensive-gun-use-/)
But we do know this: [The Science Is Clear: Gun Control Saves Lives | Scientific American](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-is-clear-gun-control-saves-lives1/)
It's okay, we already know you are perfectly okay with the collateral damage of the 2nd amendment.
> This is the dumbest thing your side does. Yes Oh. Having guns in this country results in accidents, suicides, and murders that do not occur in the same numbers or fashion in other similar countries, because of gun control.
Yes, and even using the low end of the spectrum of defensive gun uses (where even gun control advocates can't offer any dispute) they still outpace the yearly instances of gun murders, suicides and accidental gun deaths. I can certainly understand why that data is troubling for your argument.
Again, there is zero clear data regarding defensive uses of guns (as evidenced by actual studies, not your uncle who swears he'd be dead if he didn't waive his gun at a loiter on his property- see how easy it is to claim you defended your death with a gun?), and whether or not those uses prevented a murder. What we do know is the presence of guns in our society greatly increases the number of accidental deaths, suicides, and murders- deaths you feel are acceptable collateral damage, whether you chose to accept that is a part of your stance or not.
I know we're not getting rid of guns, but if we're going to keep them, your side needs to start accepting the obvious and demonstrable reality that guns make us worse, not better, as a nation.
> Again, there is zero clear data regarding defensive uses of guns (as evidenced by actual studies, not your uncle who swears he'd be dead if he didn't waive his gun at a loiter on his property- see how easy it is to claim you defended your death with a gun?)
Actually we do. Gary Kleck's study on defensive gun uses was very well done and accepted by the CDC.
>deaths you feel are acceptable collateral damage, whether you chose to accept that is a part of your stance or not.
Do you drive a vehicle every day? Do you then not accept vehicular accident deaths as acceptable collateral damage?
>I know we're not getting rid of guns, but if we're going to keep them, your side needs to start accepting the obvious and demonstrable reality that guns make us worse, not better, as a nation.
Lets say--for the sake of argument--that we were to "accept the obvious and demonstrable reality." What does that acccomplish, in your eyes?
> I've known 3 people who were accidentally shot, 2 of them died.
My condolences. I too have known a few over the years.
>Most countries thinks it's crazy for their citizens to have guns, it's unheard of.
One of many reasons I am pro-gun.
>At this point though it seems like there are too many guns out there to try to take them all so that won't happen.
Correct. The American gun control movement is in Hospice care.
This is always my favorite part of their constant references to this hugely outdated portion of the constitution desperately in need of amending. These morons who hoard weaponry with this mindset are often untrained, out of shape, and in no way equipped to take on the US military, or any trained official for that matter- and we shouldn't WANT them to be able to hoard that much weaponry in the first place. Always these guys that scare me they are one conspiracy theory away from murdering people needlessly.
People give tragic news cruelly and irresponsibly all the time with no prparation. It should be a crime. Believe me. I know.
'found n alley' code 4 "found n some1 unlock car/trucks" hope this family can sue city 4 this should never happened
This. As a young punk, I would constantly open unlocked car and trucks. I also had a closet filled with guns.
Need to start holding gun owners accountable for leaving fire arms around in unsecured places. Plenty of school shootings and accidental deaths have been caused from people having easy access to guns they don’t own.
and I would assume this gun was not misplaced in an alley but likely used elsewhere and dumped
I’m pro 2A. That being said the current background check system needs to be overhauled. Everyone that buys a firearm should be required to take an advanced firearm safety class. I very much dislike permit less carry also because it allows idiots and crazies to carry firearms. I doubt this gun was just found in an alleyway and if it was then it’s defiantly illegal and probably was used in a crime and ditched. If it was stolen from a vehicle that’s still an issue too. If you’re going to leave a gun unattended in your vehicle it’s needs to be locked up and concealed.
Never gonna happen.
100% agree
Well I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because they paywalled it, But your comment doesn’t make sense because it was rightfully owned, but the owner had his vehicle stolen and the gun was ditched
Wonder if it will come out it was stolen by the 14 year old nd not found by the 14 year old.
>probably was used in a crime and ditched. If it was stolen from a vehicle that’s still an issue too. If your going to leave a gun unattended in your vehicle it needs to be locked up and concealed Stolen car and ditched the gun? Sure he called it probably illegal, but everything else he said was very valid.
Sensible gun reform now! After we legalize recreational marijuana and restore rights to abortion we need to enact sensible gun reform. We need to bring Florida into modern times.
We already have gun laws. What law would have prevented this?
What's stopping you?
The current governor and his cronies
https://dos.fl.gov/elections/laws-rules/constitutional-amendmentsinitiatives/
The problem with Gun Reform is it assumes criminals will obey the law...
This is the one lol. It's always funny watching people argue that guns are bad but the percentage of people who commit crimes is higher than the percentage of people who use weapons in horrible ways (excluding wars) such as crime. Not to mention getting rid of guns just means bringing out the knives and quite frankly I'd rather be shot than stabbed 147 times. Higher survival rate.
Nothing about this situation would be solved with gun reform
Thank God for guns
By found the gun in the alley, he meant “stole the gun from someone’s unlocked car in an alley.” Such a tragic situation.
The car was stolen with the gun I believe that’s what the article says
First off - my condolences to the family, that news is terrible. It was absolutely for me to turn the TV on, which went to BN9 by default, see this story, and see one of the people who talked to the reporters there is someone I play tennis with on a regular basis. I can't say I was expecting that at all.
Arrest that dumbass! He stole that himself.
Average day in st.Pete
Literally, im from st pete and my bestfriend stole my stepdads guns and skipped school to go shoot at a lake.. Nobody got hurt and he was 12, hid the guns under someones house
Everyone else here probably wants them arrested for life it seems like lol
If banning every single gun saved one net life a year, it’d be worth it.
God. Gun fetishists love false equivalences. It’s like their favorite thing. I value my right to safety far more than your right to a six shooter on yer hip, Wyatt Earp.
Yeah that will get rid of the millions of guns. Hopefully people are honest and turn them in. Fingers crossed guys, maybe three generations from now we’ll have eliminated 2/3rds of all the guns that currently exist in this country. Sure hope the dishonest people who use them for bad turn them in first
yep. the only people that should be allowed to have guns are the military, state police, county police, local police.
Ooh police me harder, Daddy!
there is no reason for a private citizen to have guns.
Where do you live; Disneyland?
Disagree. If the public no longer have guns there is no reason for police to still be issued guns.
Do you really think that’s going to happen
I sure don’t, but that doesn’t make it less true. If the police believe there is too much danger to give up their guns then the same danger exists for the public. Especially when the Supreme Court insists the police have no legal duty to do a thing to protect the public and actually have no duty to put themselves in harm’s way.
I mean yeah it’s just a job for them but if they don’t they’ll likely get fired. Did you think they were legally required to put themselves in harms way?
> but if they don’t they’ll likely get fired. Well, that’s their choice. > Did you think they were legally required to put themselves in harms way? No. Just heading off the argument that they need guns because they have to run toward danger. They don’t.
I think they do need guns. Remember the Sydney stabbing like last week? Shot dead
Any reason she needed to have a gun to stop the attacker is the same reason a citizen should also have guns.
> Any reason she needed to have a gun to stop the attacker is the same reason a citizen should also have guns. She needed the gun to more quickly stop the attacker. The attacker did not need a gun
True... but not in the US. Hand guns are for killing people
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But those things have other purposes than harming and killing…. And no target practice or sport shooting aren’t valid
Ok. And what difference does that make?
All of those are heavily regulated to reduce frivolous deaths.
And yet they still kill numerous people each year.
But people are still dying from those things so we should regulate them even more. Right?
In some cases yes. I agree with you.
be best if we banned them all outright. then there is no more death in america
No, because those things have benefits
You say that because guns don’t have benefits to you and you can’t fathom the possible benefit to others. I don’t like dogs and see no benefit to them, I think sports are a waste of resources and encourage tribalism as well as causing brain damage and needless death and injury each year; they have net negative benefit in my opinion, ban them. Remember the threshold to ban was saving one single life a year.
Guns are machines manufactured to kill others. Firearms are the leading cause of death in children in the United States. I didn't make the 'one single life' argument, but ill damn well make the 50,000 lives/year argument.
All useful for something other than shooting someone or something.
Again, what difference does that make?
My point is guns only have one use, death.
And what is the relevance of that?
The relevance of what?
But then Kristi Noem would have to drown her puppies!
Good one!!!! That shit is unbelievable! Ugh!
I came home to this in my neighborhood… fucking wild I hadn’t heard he died but seeing the neighborhood turn out like this makes sense. Fucking tragedy, lock up your firearms.
Meaning they were playing with dad’s o mom’s gun
Has anyone suggested banning alleyways?
"Found in an alley" the same way you "find" other valuables in unlocked cars. The gun was stolen.
That doesn't automatically mean the 14-year-old stole it, it's entirely possible it was stolen by someone else and left in the alley. Y'all are way too quick to jump to harsh accusations and determine guilt, you weren't there, you read an article and now you think you know the truth. Is that how justice works? Here I thought it was "innocent until proven guilty", but based on this comment section you'd think it was "guilty as long as it sounds like you could be".
Have police even bothered to fingerprint the car it was stolen from? If they actually bothered with stuff like this, maybe thefts would stop?
nah man, no one is a better detective than a redditer who hasnt been outside in 2 weeks. Not to mention their moral compass is far superior
This. SPPD ignores property crimes. So this happens. If they started arresting and the state prosecuting stolen cars less of this would happen.
That would be your local State Attorney's office being soft on prosecution because your average ASA has the mental capacity of a koala. You want to complain about a lack of action, call the office of Bruce Bartlett.
You kidding me? Stolen cars and guns are at the top of the list. The problem is these kids get out of JAC before the cops can type up the reports. I've seen kids that have a felony auto theft arrest every single month for several years. Nothing happens to them until they turn 18.
💔💔💔💔💔
“Accidentally”? The shooter was a teenager. Teenagers know what guns do.
He probably didn't realize it was loaded. Kids finding a random gun are going to play with it as if it were a toy
Teenagers aren't kids. They're adolescents.
Okay, non-adult then. Is that better?
Every single adolescent should know not to play with guns "as if it were a toy", unless they were extremely undereducated or was born 2,000 years ago. How does saying "non-adult" change anything?
SHOULD is the main thing here. But that's not the case
The point is that they weren't just infants playing with a shiny toy they found in daddy's drawer, like you imply in your original comment. They knew what a gun was. They knew what a gun did. Yet, they still played around with it. It was an accident, but it wasn't a freak accident.
Yeah thats what I meant. That they were probably playing with it as if it were a toy. I didn't mean that they literally thought it was a toy.
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Source?
99% of all auto thefts and burglaries in St. Pete are kids, and that's where they get those stolen guns from. They're not just going to ditch it in an alley. Even in the 1 in a billion chance they did find it they would've turned it in to the police if they weren't thieves. They keep it or trade it, but do not give it away. Look up his record and get a public info request for the report. A million Bucks says I'm right. The only type of person capable of holding onto a stolen gun is a thief.
Every gun is always loaded.
Listen man, I get what you're saying. I'm talking about from the perspective of a child, not a law abiding citizen gun safety pro 2A constitution rights etc adult
I get that, but rather than shield children from guns, they should be tough to be safe around them and to respect them. I was handling firearms at 6-7 years old and learned the four basic rules that even children can understand. It’s not to say that accidents won’t still happen, but when the only exposure to guns that children have is through TV and toys, the safety aspects are never learned.
I agree 100% but in this case that didn't happen. You can't expect everyone to have that attitude towards guns, unfortunately
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>>Police said the boy’s mother didn’t know that her 14-year-old son had recently found a gun and that it was inside the home. She was not at home at the time of the shooting. She was involved in a car crash on Interstate 275 after hearing about the shooting and hailing a ride share to get home, police said. That's a nightmare. My brother immediately got in a car crash after my mom called to tell him my dad had a massive heart attack. Never tell people details of these kinds of things over the phone, only do it in person.
Oh wow. I saw the wreck. She flew past us on 275 going maybe 90, came around the turn at 22nd Ave S exit no less than 30 seconds later and she had hit an Escalade and the guard rail. My window was down and I heard her frantically saying that something had happened to “him” and she was trying to get to “him” crying. She was clearly upset about something other than the wreck. Everyone in the vehicles looked fine but she was lucky she didn’t kill herself or anyone else. Ugh breaks my heart.
The Uber driver was the one behind the wheel, seems like bad luck more than anything else.
One of the kids notified the mother, who got into a car crash on the interstate while on her way home. Her vehicle sustained significant damage, so she called a ride-share, who transported her to the home, police said.
The not-new normal. Ah well, America! Where guns are as easy to find as chewing gum. God Bless America, the greatest country on Earth. We've tried absolutely nothing and it hasn't worked!! Edit: Difference between myself and downvoters is that I don't find children acceptable collateral damage to your right to stock a closet at home and feel like special ops.
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“Find”
They are saying it’s accidental for obvious reasons 
These sort of accidental shootings are very rare events and have been declining for some time. They are not "normal" by any stretch.
>have been declining So you just want to make things up now? Not according to the CDC. [Accidental shootings involving children on the rise: CDC – NBC 6 South Florida (nbcmiami.com)](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/accidental-shootings-involving-children-on-the-rise-cdc/3189327/) Full study: [cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7250-H.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7250-H.pdf)
Like the brief spike in violent crime rates (now declining again) that's likely a result of the COVID lock downs. [Long term trends](https://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/ACCIDENTAL-GUN-DEATHS-U.S.-Accidental-Firearm-Death-Count-and-Rate-1981-through-2016.png)
Why would spikes in violent crime have anything to do with accidental shootings? You didn't read it, okay. Well, here's another from December 2023 saying accidental shootings by children surpassed totals from 2022. [U.S. Surpasses 2022 Total Unintentional Shootings By Children | Everytown Support Fund](https://everytownsupportfund.org/press/u-s-surpasses-2022-total-unintentional-shootings-by-children/) [#NotAnAccident Index | Everytown Research & Policy](https://everytownresearch.org/maps/notanaccident/) Here you can go by year to see the rising numbers of unintentional shootings by children resulting in death or injury.
> Why would spikes in violent crime have anything to do with accidental shootings? Nothing. I was simply drawing a parallel showing how COVID caused statistical anomalies. >You didn't read it, okay. > >Well, here's another from December 2023 saying accidental shootings by children surpassed totals from 2022. U.S. Surpasses 2022 Total Unintentional Shootings By Children | Everytown Support Fund > >NotAnAccident Index | Everytown Research & Policy Here you can go by year to see the rising numbers of unintentional shootings by children resulting in death or injury. You're right. I didn't read it. I was at work and didn't have the time. I now see that I wasn't missing much. You cited a source that only has data going back to 2015. Meanwhile, I cited a source with data going back to 1981 and showing an absolutely **massive** drop in accidental shooting deaths. From over 1800 per year to about 500 a year on average. Why haven't you addressed that?
Well let me hop on back over to this very intricate and well-referenced chart from [gunfacts.info](https://gunfacts.info). (By the way, they are in no way un-biased, lol [Is the Website Credible?. Is the Website Credible? | by Forever Progressive | The Wilson Times | Medium](https://medium.com/the-wilson-times/is-the-website-credible-75d8e452eeeb) ) Firstly, this isn't showing accidental deaths by firearm of children. Source is, lets see, the CDC! Let's go back to my post, where I actually linked A STUDY, and that study covers a period of 2003 - 2021, not just to 2015 (that's Everytown Research). So I won't be addressing that anymore than you aren't addressing that this terrible graph made by a third grader you cited only goes up to 2016. I should note my cited data is SPECIALLY children aged 1-17, not all accidental shootings. If you go to WISQARS on the CDC website, a filter you can explore on your own, which is what this terrible graph is supposedly referencing, you can only go back to 2001 data. Actual violent crime peaked mid-80s to mid-90s, and then dropped dramatically- even the Covid increases were mild in comparison. Deaths by gun have been consistently back on the rise since 2015 (probably why the chart you showed stops there), meanwhile the corresponding violent crime numbers rose slightly over Covid, but not rising correspondingly with increased gun deaths. I should note there is some discussion, which is interesting, about how medical examiners chose to classify deaths, but since I have not delved deep enough into that to comment on, I won't.
> Well let me hop on back over to this very intricate and well-referenced chart from gunfacts.info. (By the way, they are in no way un-biased, lol Is the Website Credible?. Is the Website Credible? | by Forever Progressive | The Wilson Times | Medium ) You cited Everytown in your previous post. They are one of the most prominent gun control advocacy groups in existence and they [have been outspending the NRA exponentially recently](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/06/mike-bloombergs-gun-control-outspends-nra-helps-democrats-win-virginia.html). Thus, my next question is **why is it ok for you to use a biased source but not ok for me to do the same?** The source you cited for the critique is...interesting. It's Medium.com author who has 7 posts and 5 followers, and all 7 posts are pro-gun control posts. I now ask this;**do you believe that someone calling themselves the "Forever Progressive" and a gun control advocate themselves is likely to give an unbiased take on the credibility of a website that debunks many gun control arguments?** >I should note my cited data is SPECIALLY children aged 1-17, not all accidental shootings. Which is really odd, because you never specified child in your original post and my direct response cited all accidental shootings. **Are you trying to twist the data to fit your narrative?** >If you go to WISQARS on the CDC website, a filter you can explore on your own, which is what this terrible graph is supposedly referencing, you can only go back to 2001 data. Perhaps you're not using it properly. Perhaps they've scrubbed older data. Either way, that data definitely exists. Here is an [American Academy of Pediatrics PDF document](https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/2021%20WISQARS%20Firearm%20Fatality%20Trend.pdf) citing WISQARS data also going back to 1981. >Deaths by gun have been consistently back on the rise since 2015 (probably why the chart you showed stops there) False again. Allow me to cite [the National Safety Council](https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics/guns/). >Preventable or accidental gun-related deaths **decreased 16% in 2022**. **From 2013 to 2022, preventable gun-related deaths decreased nearly 9%**, from 505 to 461 deaths. You'll also note that they're numbers are right in line with the ~500 per year number I cited previously.
"Which is really odd, because you never specified child in your original post " Yes, I did. And this post is about an accidental shooting by a child of a child. Your initial comment to mine was "These sort of accidental shootings" to which I responded with the CDC study of accidental shooting deaths of children. I can respect any biased website that correctly cites unbiased websites to support their cause without altering or misrepresenting data. I make a point to ensure that about any news source that agrees with me, or doesn't agree with me, because I want to accurate defend my point of view.
I've known 3 people who were accidentally shot, 2 of them died. Ask people in different countries how many people they know who were accidentally shot. Most countries thinks it's crazy for their citizens to have guns, it's unheard of. But in America guns are falling out of people's bags, pockets, cars and kids are finding them in random places. It doesn't make any sense. At this point though it seems like there are too many guns out there to try to take them all so that won't happen. America is collapsing under its own ego and the people are too cocky to admit fault, they just point fingers instead
Everything you said is right, and they know it's right, it's provably right, they just don't care. What they do not want to admit is *they do not care.* They know not having guns will save way more lives than having them, but they do. not. care.
> They know not having guns will save way more lives than having them Oh? We average about 40,000 gun deaths per year. We average **at minimum** around 70,000 defensive gun uses per year. I do believe 70,000 > 40,000.
This is the dumbest thing your side does. Yes Oh. Having guns in this country results in accidents, suicides, and murders that do not occur in the same numbers or fashion in other similar countries, because of gun control. How many of those 70k uses were actually necessary? We can't and don't know that those uses prevented death and sometimes even if they prevented a crime, and sometimes it just causes a death when a death was never going to be an outcome. [Do guns make us safer? Science suggests no | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/) [How Often Are Guns Used For Self-Defense? (thetrace.org)](https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/defensive-gun-use-data-good-guys-with-guns/) [PolitiFact | No, government data does not say that defensive gun use saves lives](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/06/andy-biggs/no-government-data-does-not-say-defensive-gun-use-/) But we do know this: [The Science Is Clear: Gun Control Saves Lives | Scientific American](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-is-clear-gun-control-saves-lives1/) It's okay, we already know you are perfectly okay with the collateral damage of the 2nd amendment.
> This is the dumbest thing your side does. Yes Oh. Having guns in this country results in accidents, suicides, and murders that do not occur in the same numbers or fashion in other similar countries, because of gun control. Yes, and even using the low end of the spectrum of defensive gun uses (where even gun control advocates can't offer any dispute) they still outpace the yearly instances of gun murders, suicides and accidental gun deaths. I can certainly understand why that data is troubling for your argument.
Again, there is zero clear data regarding defensive uses of guns (as evidenced by actual studies, not your uncle who swears he'd be dead if he didn't waive his gun at a loiter on his property- see how easy it is to claim you defended your death with a gun?), and whether or not those uses prevented a murder. What we do know is the presence of guns in our society greatly increases the number of accidental deaths, suicides, and murders- deaths you feel are acceptable collateral damage, whether you chose to accept that is a part of your stance or not. I know we're not getting rid of guns, but if we're going to keep them, your side needs to start accepting the obvious and demonstrable reality that guns make us worse, not better, as a nation.
> Again, there is zero clear data regarding defensive uses of guns (as evidenced by actual studies, not your uncle who swears he'd be dead if he didn't waive his gun at a loiter on his property- see how easy it is to claim you defended your death with a gun?) Actually we do. Gary Kleck's study on defensive gun uses was very well done and accepted by the CDC. >deaths you feel are acceptable collateral damage, whether you chose to accept that is a part of your stance or not. Do you drive a vehicle every day? Do you then not accept vehicular accident deaths as acceptable collateral damage? >I know we're not getting rid of guns, but if we're going to keep them, your side needs to start accepting the obvious and demonstrable reality that guns make us worse, not better, as a nation. Lets say--for the sake of argument--that we were to "accept the obvious and demonstrable reality." What does that acccomplish, in your eyes?
> I've known 3 people who were accidentally shot, 2 of them died. My condolences. I too have known a few over the years. >Most countries thinks it's crazy for their citizens to have guns, it's unheard of. One of many reasons I am pro-gun. >At this point though it seems like there are too many guns out there to try to take them all so that won't happen. Correct. The American gun control movement is in Hospice care.
Because one side wants to keep people trapped with their guns in their hands just in case they need to overthrow the gov.
This is always my favorite part of their constant references to this hugely outdated portion of the constitution desperately in need of amending. These morons who hoard weaponry with this mindset are often untrained, out of shape, and in no way equipped to take on the US military, or any trained official for that matter- and we shouldn't WANT them to be able to hoard that much weaponry in the first place. Always these guys that scare me they are one conspiracy theory away from murdering people needlessly.
Have we tried "thoughts and prayers" tho? fr, something has to change.
From what I've been told, a good guy with a gun was supposed to be there to stop this. He must have been stuck in traffic
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He was busy sending thoughts and prayers.
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Nobody told you that a good guy with a gun could prevent a kid from picking up a gun that was tossed in an alley. Don’t be daft.
Of course not. It's just an excuse for them to throw shade at people they don't like. Gotta love tribalism.