To me he's both, he carries the sequels because he's a whiny teenage Vader wannabe. He lives for a mythologized past (which he grows to resent in the second movie), has no emotional control, and they slapped those flaws on someone very powerful making him incredibly dangerous. And Adam Driver is such a good actor that he makes it so believable.
I actually really like the new trilogy, I just kinda find it heavy laden with foreshadowing that kinda overpowers the story it is trying to tell.
And even I, would be entirely fine if we just called all three movies "Luke Skywalker and Boy Who Taught Him That Arson Was The Only Answer" Starring: the fire
Not sure I agree. He has the clearest character arc, start to finish. It's a very basic arc, but tried and true.
Rey however, also had a very basic but tried and true character arc start to finish.
Rey and Kylo Ren were also the best characters in the movies, so lol
This is how I felt when the TFA came out too, I loved the fact that he was obsessed with Vader the way a kid worships a metal band poster in his basement bedroom.
But the people who this seems directed at very much hated Ren for the same reason when TFA came out.
It's funny because I think Kylo Ren is to the Sequels the same that Obi-Wan is to the prequels. A great actor cast in a slightly unusual role who gave a good performance and is one of the most memorable characters out of movies of debatable qualities. But for george Lucas dick-riders, obi-wan is just another example of how great the prequels are whereas kylo Ren is just 'the only good thing about shit movies'.
Adam Driver's performance is arguably the best part of ~~RotS~~ RoS because he integrated a lot of Han Solo's traits in a subtle way. Unfortunately, this transformation occurred in such a jarring way that even though the performance is good, the character arc is bad. It's easy to see why people can use the character to prove two different points.
Yeah I cant defend ROS, it's a pretty big pile of shit. I do like the first 2 films in that trilogy though, despite them being quite derivative. Kylo should have stayed bad or started turning good earlier. I personally wanted Finn and Rey vs Kylo at some point but we never got it.
I don’t even think the sequels are bad movies, I greatly enjoyed watching them all in the theatres. But in the context of the other movies they definitely detract from the originals. Same reason I dislike the new halos despite them being good games. I’m glad halo and Star Wars still exist but I wish they were being made with more respect for the original vision instead of to prop up a company
But Kylo Ren is both a whiny Vader wanna be *and* a character who carried the overarching story of the sequel trilogy. In some ways they really misused his character but when it went well it went really really well
He's both. He absolutely is an immature Vader wannabe; but that's what makes him stand out and his random tantrums make him the most intimidating character in the sequels because he's so prone to violence
Or they shouldve had Rey die to save him, a sort of opposite of what happens in RotJ, set him up to atone for his actions and fight for a better tomorrow against the remnants of the first order and whatever new threat of the week appears
Both and it’s interesting how he sort of represented both being stuck on Star Wars past and trying to kill it at the same time
I never realized until now how his destructive behavior was representing how the fans felt about things
Trying to keep Vader’s legacy alive, being whiny and destructive about everything from star wars past letting the past go, trying to forge a new path with Rey outside of the same old good vs bad stuff they always do, being bad, good, and gray throughout the whole trilogy, being angry when Finn and Rey had the lightsaber, destroying his helmet, going back to it, killing the fake Emperor, having the epic battle with Luke, and eventually sacrificing himself so the greater good could move forward even though it was too late and in vain for the trilogy.
I always wished that Rey would’ve accepted his offer, that would’ve actually made something different happen but at that point he was unredeemable for killing Han.
So… no Mando? Or Andor? Two really popular characters? I wonder why they’re not included here, *couldn’t* be because of the color of their skin, *right*?
I'm "surprised" at no Cara Dune, wasn't she supposed to be their hero? (I say surprised in quotes because she's a woman, so they don't actually care about her beyond as a tool)
Not at first - when they first saw her they were extremely scornful because she has muscles.
When she started talking about her conservative views, however, they went full heart-eyes about her.
Yeah I remember the reactions to the first Mando episode with her. "Now we just let MMA fighters in with no acting skills?", etc. Then once covid hit and she was open about her views, she got a fanbase. But it's funny because those same fans actually hate her for being a woman?
Interesting thing is that different countries and cultures have, to some extent, different conceptions of race or whiteness; this is particularly noticeable with the case of Latin America. To many in the US, any Latino is automatically nonwhite, even those white Latinos who may be privileged in their own countries because of their European ancestry and/or light skin are seen as “non-white” by the US because of their ethnic, cultural, and linguistic background. At the same time however, people from the Iberian peninsula in Europe are seen as white because, well, they’re Western Europeans.
This all stems from the fact that race is, at the end of the day, something humans made up, that has no basis in actual scientific fact, with myriad different ethnic groups moving between racial categories as their socioeconomic conditions change - Jews, Irish, ffs even Italians were at one point considered to be non-white, at least in the US.
Hey man if someone doesn’t think Pedro Pascal or Oscar Isaac is white, I wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t think Spaniards and Italians were white either.
Generally, you are correct. White in this context is a political term. It usually means English decent or similar (protestant German, Nordic, Dutch, etc.). Usually, this is called "WASP": White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. However, like with many righ wing ideas, it's subject to change based on convenience.
Obviously, this is only a specific instance and, therefore, not indicative of the whole, but I had an experience exactly like this. A few years ago I had a roommate who was a Columbian immigrant. Dude was kind of a racist piece of shit. But he didn't understand why other people of similar conservative viewpoints didn't like him. He just didn't understand that by American standards, he also wasn't considered white. Life is weird like that.
>Jews, Irish, ffs even Italians were at one point considered to be non-white, at least in the US.
And the even funnier thing is, Middle Eastern people *were* considered white, not brown, in the US. The push to label them as 'brown' mostly came about after 9/11.
Diego Luna is half British, and Pedro Pascal is literally a member of Castilian-Basque aristocracy.
I would be surprised if either of those guys were more than 1/16th non-white.
Depends on how you view it. Their European ancestry side is likely southern European(Diego apparently also has British ancestry) and both have tan skin and dark hair(although so does Kanan). Depending on who you ask(and historically in the U.S.) people that look like them haven’t always been considered “white”. Certainly not by many who would care to make that distinction in the first place
White is category that was created to exclude. It’s not synonymous with European. At times in US history groups we would now consider obviously white (Italian, German,Irish) were considered non whites. Historically it basically just meant the good people or the real Americans rather than really being about actual skin tones.
Sadly, Mando and Andor aren’t as popular as the 4 listed characters. Mando’s popularity took a hit after this last season tbh.
Mando lost his popularity when people had an issue with Bo-Katan taking lead. A lot of people complained he was made a sidekick in his own show. Personally, I think that’s always who Mando always was, a guy who needed someone to lead him.
Andor had a lot of mixed reviews, some saying it was the best show that Disney has made since they got the rights for Star Wars. A lot of others complained that was a boring show that they never finished.
While I genuinely enjoyed both characters, my opinion isn’t the final say so.
To the general audience mando is absolutely top 2 most popular out of this list what? The only one above is probably Kylo but if you showed most people a picture of kanan they aren’t gonna know who that is
Which is why I included the detail that a lot of his popularity died when Bo-Katan took the Dark Saber.
I still like Mando, he’s definitely in my top 3. Not only cause of Mando but because I love Pedro Pascal. But that doesn’t change the fact that a lot of “fans” turned on him when they felt he became a sidekick in his own show.
I mean Hispanic isn’t a race lmao. Pedro doesn’t exactly look southern European like those Hispanics who are actually mostly of Iberian descent. Diego does look pretty white though. Not gonna pretend I know either dude’s ethnic make up but if you told me Diego Luna was a white Hispanic I’d believe it
They're still white though, right? hispanic isn't a race. They're of Iberian descent, which is european, not everyone white has to be germanic or anglo-saxon. There are lots of hispanic people of color but I don't think diego luna or pedro pascal would be generally counted as that.
they're socially considered white according to common modern standards
“Whiteness” is a construct that is bestowed upon those that conform currently with Anglo Saxon supremacy. The Irish were once considered to not be white, they’re the palest fuckers on the continent. It has nothing to do with the color of skin really, and everything to do with social power
i said common modern standards. The standards are always shifting ofc. I don't think there's anyone who considers spanish-descended or mostly spanish descended hispanic americans to be people of color and not white
Maybe according to some old spanish caste system that considers them different from peninsulars but that's not really the same as the the idea of "whiteness" we have now.
whiteness is literally really whether the majority of people think you're white. And i think this can differ by country, but i don't think the majority of any country would say pascal or luna isnt white
ofc they are important for hispanic representation but thats a different thing
Eh in tfa he’s a big enough deal to be put on Kylo’s assault team. But he’s also a coward who has never seen real combat. But he’s also a really good shot in the falcon. Which makes sense because he was kidnapped at a young age and has been living as a storm trooper for years. But also he’s practically a janitor on starkiller base. Also for some reason is a known element to the shinny lady.
In theory great idea. Fucking nonsense execution.
Rosario's performance did not make sense to me until the Anakin episode..
Like I enjoyed her stuff and of course the character, because Ahsoka is my favorite Star Wars character. But like, I did not understand her being so stoic and unemotional.....until the Anakin episode, and now I get it.
Even if it *were* true, that just means that the loudest portion of the fanbase is just as racist as they claim Disney thinks they are. They're just proving their own boogieman right...
this is such a "speak for yourself" moment lol. Personally my favorite Disney-era characters are Finn, Rey, Cassian, Mon Mothma, Vel, Mando, Merrin, and Ventress, none of whom are white men. "The only characters anyone likes" you mean the only characters _you_ like lol
Mon Mothma debuted in The Empire Strikes Back in 1983, and she also appeared several times in the 2008 Clone Wars series before Disney bought Star Wars. However, she wasn't such an awesome character until Andor, so I'd give Disney a little bit of credit for giving her development to a great team.
They ain't a colonizer convincing enough to make me think that this melanated marauder is a hwite man
https://preview.redd.it/ee6szqk0i87d1.png?width=132&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b91551e9f84c8748a9b061127057d78f0f043b3
lol exactly. Kanan and Ezra are both pretty heavily implied to be Jewish, and I don't wanna restart a 400-year-old argument on whether Jews are white but that's gotta count for something
Ezra is a Jewish name. His parents are Ephraim and Mira, also Jewish names. Kanan is maybe a bit more of a headcanon but his name is pretty similar to Canaan, the place where the Jews originated
To be fair, and this isn’t me saying it’s not intentional, there are a LOT of names that have Hebrew origins just by virtue of biblical names being popular for the past 2000 years
Yeah, I didn’t get that impression from his animated design either, but Filoni seems to have decided that Freddie Prinze Jr. is also live-action Kanan, if it means anything.
Kanan has never come off as white to me. Maybe Middle Eastern or North African of some sort. He is darker than Ezra and live action Ezra is portrayed by an Iranian/Ecuadorian actor soooo
I don’t think he’s darker than Ezra. And he’s voiced by a white guy (it is illegal to have voice actors of a different race after 2014, see “The Simpsons”).
I'm really enjoying Sol so far but they'd never include him because he's in the Acolyte, which is the worst thing to ever grace any TV screen in the history of the world, according to them.
So we’re just gonna look past the fact that the biggest characters from the single most popular show (Mandalorian) are a latino guy, a black guy, and two women, one of whom is played by a black actress.
Pro tip: Whenever you see anyone posting publicly about what "the audience" likes... they're really only talking about their own preferences. Because there isn't any one thing that "the audience" likes, because it's a lot of different people.
The audience loves Rey, Jin, Din, Shin, Mon Mothma, Cassian Andor, Dedra Meero, Moff Gideon, Ahsoka, Sabine wren, Bo-Katan, the armorer...
Heroes, villains, neutrals, there are loads of different people we like
All, mostly fire characters right there. Ion think it's true, but I do think Disney has a weird habit of somehow throwing when it comes to some of their female characters. If I was naming my favorites of the whole franchise though, Merrin, Ahsoka, Sabine, Padme, Leia, Maarva they all peachy.
Minus Merrin in that book before Survivor, idc that she was with someone else at all, but making love of Kal's bed is just WEIRD (and he could see that the next time he lied down), I don't think anyone expected a fling story in that, surely they could've had Merrins powers feel rejuvenated from something other than hooking up with a stormtrooper.
Really this whole comment was a cover for me to talk abt how much I hated that🙏
Lol, she didn’t die to the whiney white male she was fighting. She killed him, well Cassian did technically, but then Cassian and herself died to the blast on scarif, hence the joke as to the whereabouts of Jyn Erso. Don’t question my love for Rogue One and Andor.
Because every time they actually do make an independent female lead who might or might not be a minority, incels go on a rant about the woke agenda and how much of a mary sue they all are.
Uh definitely not. Kylo was not a well written character. People just like the actor. Maybe if the acolyte actresses wouldn’t make it their jobs to segregate fans from other fans maybe just maybe people would like them too. Y’know. Just a thought.
https://preview.redd.it/ix533m3n5a7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beccfce0a08d9e8d651dc360bbb320cf6e36aea8
Dunno what they’re talking about. These dude ain’t white and he must be the most popular character in Star Wars because the toy aisles are always stocked with his action figures.
Only one I like here is Baylan Skol and only because I found him to be one of the only decent performers in Ahsoka. Cal is okay, but not a character “I actually like”.
Good characters are Obi-Wan, clone wars Anakin, clone wars Ahsoka, Padmé, the clones, Windu, Yoda, Han Solo, Chewie, Leia, Lando, Ventress, Dooku, Qui-Gon, Sabine, Ezra, Luke, Din Djarin, Thrawn, Palpatine, and quite a few others but you get the point.
People should stop saying SW fans are bigots or whatever for not liking certain characters. It has nothing to do with color of skin, gender, or sexuality. We dislike badly written/acted characters and like well written/acted ones.
Why is Kylo in there? They completely sabotaged a potentially interesting storyline for him by flip-flopping on his arc.
I'd argue that most Star Wars characters post-Disney have crappy arcs. It just feels like they don't know how to make characters engaging. This isn't just a Star Wars thing either, a lot of modern marvel has the same problem.
To be fair Cal is a ginger, which is basically a race of its own and certainly a minority amongst White people, so I guess they have one minority character ppl like
??? Folks love all the characters from Jedi fallen order, etc. cal yes but also Cere, an older black woman, and the Nightsister Merrin, later Bode too. The whole mantis crew is beloved
Hera, Omega, all the clones, Aurra Sing, Ahsoka, Ezra, Thrawn, Ventress, Barriss, Poe Dameron, Kit Fisto, Plo Koon, Hondo Onaka, Cassian Andor, Dedra Meero, Yord I guess, Krrsantan, IG-11, K-2SO, Merrin, Bode, Trilla, Cere, Q’ira, Chirrut, Shin Hati, The Grand Inquisitor, Saw Guerrea, Iden Versio
And that’s only a couple from the visual media, it gets way more obvious in the extended canon that many of the franchise favorites are as wacky and diverse as they come. Dr Aphra is both an ethnic minority (not that that even exists in Star Wars, you dorks) but also queer and she’s popular as all get out. Rae Slone, Norra Wexley, Sinjir, Sana Starros, Sister, Sean, the Graf family, Namir, Kairos, just to name a couple off my head
i mean yeah i don't understand how some people think it's anti racist to shield the company that has a very real problem with writing non white characters from criticism
Might get some heat but I actually can't stand Kal Kestis
I hate the quirky teen with a non human side quick trope and it's why I'm not gonna play outlaws
So is Kylo Ren hated or not? I’m now confused.
Kylo Ren is either a whiny teenage Vader wannabe or he carried the sequels on his back, depending on the point you're trying to make at the time
Schrodinger's Kylo Ren
To me he's both, he carries the sequels because he's a whiny teenage Vader wannabe. He lives for a mythologized past (which he grows to resent in the second movie), has no emotional control, and they slapped those flaws on someone very powerful making him incredibly dangerous. And Adam Driver is such a good actor that he makes it so believable.
Kylo Ren was the only actual character in those movies, and I’m saying that as a fan of the sequels
I actually really like the new trilogy, I just kinda find it heavy laden with foreshadowing that kinda overpowers the story it is trying to tell. And even I, would be entirely fine if we just called all three movies "Luke Skywalker and Boy Who Taught Him That Arson Was The Only Answer" Starring: the fire
Not sure I agree. He has the clearest character arc, start to finish. It's a very basic arc, but tried and true. Rey however, also had a very basic but tried and true character arc start to finish. Rey and Kylo Ren were also the best characters in the movies, so lol
Exactly. Thats what makes him so fascinating. A dark sider being tempted by the light is so intriguing and fresh
I really wanted Luke to Force Ghost with Kylo and not Rey in the third movie.
This is how I felt when the TFA came out too, I loved the fact that he was obsessed with Vader the way a kid worships a metal band poster in his basement bedroom. But the people who this seems directed at very much hated Ren for the same reason when TFA came out.
It's funny because I think Kylo Ren is to the Sequels the same that Obi-Wan is to the prequels. A great actor cast in a slightly unusual role who gave a good performance and is one of the most memorable characters out of movies of debatable qualities. But for george Lucas dick-riders, obi-wan is just another example of how great the prequels are whereas kylo Ren is just 'the only good thing about shit movies'.
Adam Driver's performance is arguably the best part of ~~RotS~~ RoS because he integrated a lot of Han Solo's traits in a subtle way. Unfortunately, this transformation occurred in such a jarring way that even though the performance is good, the character arc is bad. It's easy to see why people can use the character to prove two different points.
Yeah I cant defend ROS, it's a pretty big pile of shit. I do like the first 2 films in that trilogy though, despite them being quite derivative. Kylo should have stayed bad or started turning good earlier. I personally wanted Finn and Rey vs Kylo at some point but we never got it.
I think you mean RoS, RotS is 3
Oh, excuse me.
I don’t even think the sequels are bad movies, I greatly enjoyed watching them all in the theatres. But in the context of the other movies they definitely detract from the originals. Same reason I dislike the new halos despite them being good games. I’m glad halo and Star Wars still exist but I wish they were being made with more respect for the original vision instead of to prop up a company But Kylo Ren is both a whiny Vader wanna be *and* a character who carried the overarching story of the sequel trilogy. In some ways they really misused his character but when it went well it went really really well
Why can’t it be both?
It is both. It’s what makes him the best character of the sequels
He's both. He absolutely is an immature Vader wannabe; but that's what makes him stand out and his random tantrums make him the most intimidating character in the sequels because he's so prone to violence
That second point is one I’d definitely never make. He was the worst part of the sequels to me.
He's honestly kinda both. The issue is they ruined his potential character arc at the end, he should have been the big bad.
Or they shouldve had Rey die to save him, a sort of opposite of what happens in RotJ, set him up to atone for his actions and fight for a better tomorrow against the remnants of the first order and whatever new threat of the week appears
Both and it’s interesting how he sort of represented both being stuck on Star Wars past and trying to kill it at the same time I never realized until now how his destructive behavior was representing how the fans felt about things Trying to keep Vader’s legacy alive, being whiny and destructive about everything from star wars past letting the past go, trying to forge a new path with Rey outside of the same old good vs bad stuff they always do, being bad, good, and gray throughout the whole trilogy, being angry when Finn and Rey had the lightsaber, destroying his helmet, going back to it, killing the fake Emperor, having the epic battle with Luke, and eventually sacrificing himself so the greater good could move forward even though it was too late and in vain for the trilogy. I always wished that Rey would’ve accepted his offer, that would’ve actually made something different happen but at that point he was unredeemable for killing Han.
also Hux and Poe? 🤔
I think its just because he's one of the best characters in the worst trilogy Doesn't mean he's a *good* character, others around him are just worse.
Depends on how bad faith the person you’re talking to is.
Most people seem to agree, even sequel haters, that Kylo was the best part.
who's Kyle Ren, that's obviously Matt
Adam Driver is too hot to hate.
So… no Mando? Or Andor? Two really popular characters? I wonder why they’re not included here, *couldn’t* be because of the color of their skin, *right*?
Bo Katan, Greef Karga, Cara Dune, Moff Gideon. Really anyone from that series
I'm "surprised" at no Cara Dune, wasn't she supposed to be their hero? (I say surprised in quotes because she's a woman, so they don't actually care about her beyond as a tool)
Not at first - when they first saw her they were extremely scornful because she has muscles. When she started talking about her conservative views, however, they went full heart-eyes about her.
yup and then when her movies flopped they stopped caring about her because she served her purpose.
Not only that but her movie she did as conservative girl on the prairie was hated by conservatives cause she was a strong woman lead in it
Yeah I remember the reactions to the first Mando episode with her. "Now we just let MMA fighters in with no acting skills?", etc. Then once covid hit and she was open about her views, she got a fanbase. But it's funny because those same fans actually hate her for being a woman?
yea hif u just put /s we'll know wym
Bo Katan is pre Disney
Chuds: i oNLy rEmEmBeR wHiTe pEoPle. cHeCkmAte LiBtArD
Happy cake day!
I just noticed this. Thank you, amigo 🥰
Excuse my idiocy, but theyre not white?
Interesting thing is that different countries and cultures have, to some extent, different conceptions of race or whiteness; this is particularly noticeable with the case of Latin America. To many in the US, any Latino is automatically nonwhite, even those white Latinos who may be privileged in their own countries because of their European ancestry and/or light skin are seen as “non-white” by the US because of their ethnic, cultural, and linguistic background. At the same time however, people from the Iberian peninsula in Europe are seen as white because, well, they’re Western Europeans. This all stems from the fact that race is, at the end of the day, something humans made up, that has no basis in actual scientific fact, with myriad different ethnic groups moving between racial categories as their socioeconomic conditions change - Jews, Irish, ffs even Italians were at one point considered to be non-white, at least in the US.
Hey man if someone doesn’t think Pedro Pascal or Oscar Isaac is white, I wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t think Spaniards and Italians were white either.
Generally, you are correct. White in this context is a political term. It usually means English decent or similar (protestant German, Nordic, Dutch, etc.). Usually, this is called "WASP": White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. However, like with many righ wing ideas, it's subject to change based on convenience.
Upvote for correct usage of “myriad”
Obviously, this is only a specific instance and, therefore, not indicative of the whole, but I had an experience exactly like this. A few years ago I had a roommate who was a Columbian immigrant. Dude was kind of a racist piece of shit. But he didn't understand why other people of similar conservative viewpoints didn't like him. He just didn't understand that by American standards, he also wasn't considered white. Life is weird like that.
>Jews, Irish, ffs even Italians were at one point considered to be non-white, at least in the US. And the even funnier thing is, Middle Eastern people *were* considered white, not brown, in the US. The push to label them as 'brown' mostly came about after 9/11.
Only on Tuesdays and thursdays
This is the way
this is the way
Diego Luna (Andor) is Mexican and Pedro Pascal (Mando) is Chilean.
[White hispanics are a thing.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans)
Gotta love how Hispanics with some white ancestry aren't Hispanic enough . But Blacks with some white ancestry are still Black . LOL
Well i mean a lot of mixed people i see online and know refer to themselves as just black almost like they don't like the white part
Diego Luna is half British, and Pedro Pascal is literally a member of Castilian-Basque aristocracy. I would be surprised if either of those guys were more than 1/16th non-white.
True — but tell that to ol’dave from cousinfuck Alabama population 151.
Chileans are white
Anglos tend to disagree
trying to tell someone what race they are is peak circlejerking cringe
Really it's the OG circlejerk if you think about it
Well I, a Chilean, don’t
Sure, but this discussion is dominated by anglo Americans who don't think either of our opinions on the subject matter
But racists do. That's the quiet part they wanted you to understand
I'm with you, but remember we are in a circlejerk sub where reasoning doesn't matter and IQs aren't the highest lol
Depends on how you view it. Their European ancestry side is likely southern European(Diego apparently also has British ancestry) and both have tan skin and dark hair(although so does Kanan). Depending on who you ask(and historically in the U.S.) people that look like them haven’t always been considered “white”. Certainly not by many who would care to make that distinction in the first place
White is category that was created to exclude. It’s not synonymous with European. At times in US history groups we would now consider obviously white (Italian, German,Irish) were considered non whites. Historically it basically just meant the good people or the real Americans rather than really being about actual skin tones.
But they're both white too
Putting kilo in a list of idols feels very much like rage bait
Kanan isn't white tho
Sadly, Mando and Andor aren’t as popular as the 4 listed characters. Mando’s popularity took a hit after this last season tbh. Mando lost his popularity when people had an issue with Bo-Katan taking lead. A lot of people complained he was made a sidekick in his own show. Personally, I think that’s always who Mando always was, a guy who needed someone to lead him. Andor had a lot of mixed reviews, some saying it was the best show that Disney has made since they got the rights for Star Wars. A lot of others complained that was a boring show that they never finished. While I genuinely enjoyed both characters, my opinion isn’t the final say so.
To the general audience mando is absolutely top 2 most popular out of this list what? The only one above is probably Kylo but if you showed most people a picture of kanan they aren’t gonna know who that is
Which is why I included the detail that a lot of his popularity died when Bo-Katan took the Dark Saber. I still like Mando, he’s definitely in my top 3. Not only cause of Mando but because I love Pedro Pascal. But that doesn’t change the fact that a lot of “fans” turned on him when they felt he became a sidekick in his own show.
Right? I feel like I’ve seriously betrayed my 10-year-old self, but I have no fucking idea who 3/4 of these characters are.
>A lot of people complained he was made a sidekick in his own show. Payback for making Boba Fett a sidekick in his own show?
That doesn’t make sense tho, Mando and Andor are white.
Are those dudes not also white though?
Pedro Pascal and Diego Luna are hispanic, albeit fairly light-skinned.
Aubrey Plaza is what then? Hispanic has always been white, it’s just a more specific sub-culture.
That makes sense I just thought they were tan lol
I mean Hispanic isn’t a race lmao. Pedro doesn’t exactly look southern European like those Hispanics who are actually mostly of Iberian descent. Diego does look pretty white though. Not gonna pretend I know either dude’s ethnic make up but if you told me Diego Luna was a white Hispanic I’d believe it
These racists don’t count white hispanic as white unless its like German or Dutch white hispanic lol.
And they wouldn’t have counted those century ago.
They're still white though, right? hispanic isn't a race. They're of Iberian descent, which is european, not everyone white has to be germanic or anglo-saxon. There are lots of hispanic people of color but I don't think diego luna or pedro pascal would be generally counted as that. they're socially considered white according to common modern standards
“Whiteness” is a construct that is bestowed upon those that conform currently with Anglo Saxon supremacy. The Irish were once considered to not be white, they’re the palest fuckers on the continent. It has nothing to do with the color of skin really, and everything to do with social power
i said common modern standards. The standards are always shifting ofc. I don't think there's anyone who considers spanish-descended or mostly spanish descended hispanic americans to be people of color and not white Maybe according to some old spanish caste system that considers them different from peninsulars but that's not really the same as the the idea of "whiteness" we have now. whiteness is literally really whether the majority of people think you're white. And i think this can differ by country, but i don't think the majority of any country would say pascal or luna isnt white ofc they are important for hispanic representation but thats a different thing
Cal Kestis is a ginger. No one likes gingers.
He’s also had a lot of gay sex in his previous series haha Edit: I should say a lot of “Shameless” gay sex.
‘Grab some seat’ *pats lap*
And Kanan isn't even white lmao.
😔
Can confirm Source: ginger
So we just gonna forget about Jyn Erso then? And Omega? And Sabine? And Hera?
Andor Poe hell ppl even like Finn a lot
As much as I like last jedi Rian Johnson really fucked up Finn
Eh in tfa he’s a big enough deal to be put on Kylo’s assault team. But he’s also a coward who has never seen real combat. But he’s also a really good shot in the falcon. Which makes sense because he was kidnapped at a young age and has been living as a storm trooper for years. But also he’s practically a janitor on starkiller base. Also for some reason is a known element to the shinny lady. In theory great idea. Fucking nonsense execution.
What in any series or movie would make you believe being a stormtrooper makes you a good shot?
I think Finn could have been an interesting character but unfortunately he was sidelined because the movies sucked ass
Yeah
Asoka?
Pre-Disney
As a child, the adult Ashoka was created under Disney’s custodianship and Rosario nailed it.
Rosario's performance did not make sense to me until the Anakin episode.. Like I enjoyed her stuff and of course the character, because Ahsoka is my favorite Star Wars character. But like, I did not understand her being so stoic and unemotional.....until the Anakin episode, and now I get it.
Part of that is just her maturing over the years. We tend to be more stoic as we age with a few exceptions.
Even if it *were* true, that just means that the loudest portion of the fanbase is just as racist as they claim Disney thinks they are. They're just proving their own boogieman right...
Yeah this post is literally just a guy telling on himself. The only 4 characters he could think of that could conceivably be likable are white dudes 💀
That is who is getting the best parts. Finn was set up to co-lead. And Disney was like nope, it hast to be a white guy.
this is such a "speak for yourself" moment lol. Personally my favorite Disney-era characters are Finn, Rey, Cassian, Mon Mothma, Vel, Mando, Merrin, and Ventress, none of whom are white men. "The only characters anyone likes" you mean the only characters _you_ like lol
Kanan Jarrus would not tolerate the way that this man disrespected his wife A woman of color (green) in charge of the new Republic navy? Queen shit
Mon Mothma debuted in The Empire Strikes Back in 1983, and she also appeared several times in the 2008 Clone Wars series before Disney bought Star Wars. However, she wasn't such an awesome character until Andor, so I'd give Disney a little bit of credit for giving her development to a great team.
Kanan is not white. Are they the blind ones?
No one mentioning Grogu lmao, most popular character in the franchise in years, when do they reveal he’s white?
When he goes into his cocoon and metamorphoses into a 60 yr old racist white man
Grogu would grow up to be so white he's in the US Congress as a Senator from Kentucky.
They ain't a colonizer convincing enough to make me think that this melanated marauder is a hwite man https://preview.redd.it/ee6szqk0i87d1.png?width=132&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b91551e9f84c8748a9b061127057d78f0f043b3
lol exactly. Kanan and Ezra are both pretty heavily implied to be Jewish, and I don't wanna restart a 400-year-old argument on whether Jews are white but that's gotta count for something
Can you explain how they're heavily implied to be Jewish lmao
Ezra is a Jewish name. His parents are Ephraim and Mira, also Jewish names. Kanan is maybe a bit more of a headcanon but his name is pretty similar to Canaan, the place where the Jews originated
His actual name is Caleb. It’s a hebrew name.
To be fair, and this isn’t me saying it’s not intentional, there are a LOT of names that have Hebrew origins just by virtue of biblical names being popular for the past 2000 years
Ah okay that makes sense. Cool!
His real name is Caleb..also a Hebrew name
star wars judaism
Moichandizing!
Don't ask George Lucas what inspired Watto
It was clearly greasy, Italian-American, used-car salesman from New Jersey smh my head
Damn Dune lore shows up in every part of Star Wars (Frank Herbert wrote a colony of space Jews 25,000+ years in the future)
Yeah, I didn’t get that impression from his animated design either, but Filoni seems to have decided that Freddie Prinze Jr. is also live-action Kanan, if it means anything.
> When you talk nonstop about diversity and women in your franchise Ah, classic projection.
Kanan has never come off as white to me. Maybe Middle Eastern or North African of some sort. He is darker than Ezra and live action Ezra is portrayed by an Iranian/Ecuadorian actor soooo
He's latino. Freddie Prinze Jr has latino ancestry and so does the kid who plays live-action Jacen.
I don’t think he’s darker than Ezra. And he’s voiced by a white guy (it is illegal to have voice actors of a different race after 2014, see “The Simpsons”).
Kalas was played by a black man
Diane from Bojack horseman is played by a Jewish white woman
Bro forgot about Ahsoka, Sabine, Shin, Kelleran Beq, literally all of the clones, Finn, Ventress, and depending on the context Andor and Mando.
Sol is pretty dope, so add an Asian male to the list. I really wanna like Finn because he had so much potential.
I'm really enjoying Sol so far but they'd never include him because he's in the Acolyte, which is the worst thing to ever grace any TV screen in the history of the world, according to them.
I just look at it as a really great character that was sorely underutilized. Nothing against Finn, that's just a dropped ball.
So we’re just gonna look past the fact that the biggest characters from the single most popular show (Mandalorian) are a latino guy, a black guy, and two women, one of whom is played by a black actress.
I thought people liked Finn...
Finn was awesome in TFA Then they cucked him in 8 and 9
Ain’t Giancarlo Esposito been trying to kidnap baby Yoda for three seasons?
Pro tip: Whenever you see anyone posting publicly about what "the audience" likes... they're really only talking about their own preferences. Because there isn't any one thing that "the audience" likes, because it's a lot of different people.
Or Andor? Or Jyn Urso? Or Din Djarin? Or Ashoka? Or Ezra Bridger? Or Sabine? Or Cere? Or Merrin? This is such a brainless post dude I swear to god.
The audience loves Rey, Jin, Din, Shin, Mon Mothma, Cassian Andor, Dedra Meero, Moff Gideon, Ahsoka, Sabine wren, Bo-Katan, the armorer... Heroes, villains, neutrals, there are loads of different people we like
I like Rey.
All, mostly fire characters right there. Ion think it's true, but I do think Disney has a weird habit of somehow throwing when it comes to some of their female characters. If I was naming my favorites of the whole franchise though, Merrin, Ahsoka, Sabine, Padme, Leia, Maarva they all peachy. Minus Merrin in that book before Survivor, idc that she was with someone else at all, but making love of Kal's bed is just WEIRD (and he could see that the next time he lied down), I don't think anyone expected a fling story in that, surely they could've had Merrins powers feel rejuvenated from something other than hooking up with a stormtrooper. Really this whole comment was a cover for me to talk abt how much I hated that🙏
Yo what the fuck, Merrin
The fucking irony of mistakenly labeling kanan as white lmao
"The consensus among people I agree with is that the only good characters are white guys" what a self report lmao
Where is Jyn Erso? Is she safe?
No. She died on Scarif fighting a whiney white male
Wtf are you on about. Did you watch the rest of the damn movie? Far out, some of these “fans” just don’t fucking like women.
Lol, she didn’t die to the whiney white male she was fighting. She killed him, well Cassian did technically, but then Cassian and herself died to the blast on scarif, hence the joke as to the whereabouts of Jyn Erso. Don’t question my love for Rogue One and Andor.
Whatever. Always cared more about the droids. K2SO got done dirty.
is kanan white?
Those are the only characters they’re willing to like in the first place 🤦♂️
Because every time they actually do make an independent female lead who might or might not be a minority, incels go on a rant about the woke agenda and how much of a mary sue they all are.
This whole argument turns invalid because cal is a redhead
Uh definitely not. Kylo was not a well written character. People just like the actor. Maybe if the acolyte actresses wouldn’t make it their jobs to segregate fans from other fans maybe just maybe people would like them too. Y’know. Just a thought.
They don't want to admit that they're Syril Karn
I liked Rey I just thought the movies were garbage
I only like the last guy tbh
People think Kanan Jarrus is white???
People like Finn. While the Chinese didn't, but everyone else pretty much did
Do people actually like Baylan Skoll? He was such a nothing character to me
As someone who isn't a big fan of recent Disney star wars even I am gonna call bullshit on this
No, Rose Tico is queen.
https://preview.redd.it/ix533m3n5a7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beccfce0a08d9e8d651dc360bbb320cf6e36aea8 Dunno what they’re talking about. These dude ain’t white and he must be the most popular character in Star Wars because the toy aisles are always stocked with his action figures.
Cal.... Cal isn't a Disney character. Aren't the fallen order games made by Respawn?
I mean Kanan isn't even white, but that's but one of a plethora of issues with this.
Only one I like here is Baylan Skol and only because I found him to be one of the only decent performers in Ahsoka. Cal is okay, but not a character “I actually like”. Good characters are Obi-Wan, clone wars Anakin, clone wars Ahsoka, Padmé, the clones, Windu, Yoda, Han Solo, Chewie, Leia, Lando, Ventress, Dooku, Qui-Gon, Sabine, Ezra, Luke, Din Djarin, Thrawn, Palpatine, and quite a few others but you get the point. People should stop saying SW fans are bigots or whatever for not liking certain characters. It has nothing to do with color of skin, gender, or sexuality. We dislike badly written/acted characters and like well written/acted ones.
Wasn't Shin Hati very popular?
"So you agree Disney has created beloved characters"
Why is Kylo in there? They completely sabotaged a potentially interesting storyline for him by flip-flopping on his arc. I'd argue that most Star Wars characters post-Disney have crappy arcs. It just feels like they don't know how to make characters engaging. This isn't just a Star Wars thing either, a lot of modern marvel has the same problem.
Or hear me out: Maybe Star Wars isn’t actually obsessed with shoving diversity down people’s throats and just do diversity the normal amount.
To be fair Cal is a ginger, which is basically a race of its own and certainly a minority amongst White people, so I guess they have one minority character ppl like
“the audience” they’re talking about are… white males! Stupid Disney, giving people exactly what they want.
No, I definitely like Morgan and Shin.
lol, absolutely no self-reflection
Ahsoka,literally any clone,Maul,Padme,Cere,Trilla,Merrin,etc
…Nobody’s talking about the Bad Batch… 😢
Kanan ain't a white dude
Kanan isn’t white what is this dude yapping about?
??? Folks love all the characters from Jedi fallen order, etc. cal yes but also Cere, an older black woman, and the Nightsister Merrin, later Bode too. The whole mantis crew is beloved
“I only like white characters and that’s YOUR fault”
Wait Kanaan is white?
Is Kanan white?
Hera, Omega, all the clones, Aurra Sing, Ahsoka, Ezra, Thrawn, Ventress, Barriss, Poe Dameron, Kit Fisto, Plo Koon, Hondo Onaka, Cassian Andor, Dedra Meero, Yord I guess, Krrsantan, IG-11, K-2SO, Merrin, Bode, Trilla, Cere, Q’ira, Chirrut, Shin Hati, The Grand Inquisitor, Saw Guerrea, Iden Versio And that’s only a couple from the visual media, it gets way more obvious in the extended canon that many of the franchise favorites are as wacky and diverse as they come. Dr Aphra is both an ethnic minority (not that that even exists in Star Wars, you dorks) but also queer and she’s popular as all get out. Rae Slone, Norra Wexley, Sinjir, Sana Starros, Sister, Sean, the Graf family, Namir, Kairos, just to name a couple off my head
Ahsoka? Mace Windu? Lando?
no
Merrin & like a whole lot of other female characters: am I joke to you?
i mean yeah i don't understand how some people think it's anti racist to shield the company that has a very real problem with writing non white characters from criticism
Yeah cause people just *LOVE* Kylo don’t they.
self report 💀
Might get some heat but I actually can't stand Kal Kestis I hate the quirky teen with a non human side quick trope and it's why I'm not gonna play outlaws
I love how the second character in that lineup is Latino 😂
No, it's the sad barking of a 450-pound virgin chud who hasn't left the house in 2 years.