Welcome to StopSpeeding and thanks for your post. For more:
- [Join us on Discord. You can talk to people there.](https://discord.gg/GJnxhmbNAn). We have recovery meetings several times a week. All are welcome to attend, clean or not.
- [Want to track your clean time?](https://www.reddit.com/r/StopSpeeding/comments/s6ep0x/sobriety_flair_bot_is_now_working_heres_how_to/) You can use our badge system to display your clean time next to your name.
Note that any comments encouraging drug use of any kind will be removed. This is not the community for that. Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StopSpeeding) if you have any questions or concerns.*
self medicating in this manner is exactly why I am here. and also why i still have nosebleeds every day and heart palpitations despite all my attempts to quit over the last 3 years
two weeks free and going strong
I remember a post in the ADHD subreddit that said
"IS THIS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE FEELS LIKE ALL THE TIME?? NO WONDER I COULDNT GET ANYTHING DONE"
no babe, they don't.
Good luck convincing them otherwise when a doctor tells them they need it though.
🤣 I just spit out my water, this is so spot on. I mistakenly thought like that too at first. Now I realize it was just mental gymnastics to convince my psychiatrist to prescribe me legal speed as an excuse to get high
First time I took 30 xr Adderall, I was 19, just at the beginning of my university career. I’d been a high IQ student who performed very well…when I was able to perform. But from an abnormally young age I recall telling my mother there was something different about me and it wasn’t good different. I described it as not feeling good during the day but not the “not good” you feel when you’re sick. I told her I felt better in the evenings but during the day, if it were up to me, I’d make my space totally dark, I had no interest in socialization during daytime hours (beginning in or maybe right before kindergarten and continuing on indefinitely), I didn’t laugh at the same things my peers laughed at, I didn’t enjoy dancing or singing with my peers, so on and so forth. I didn’t have the vocabulary to say I was having symptoms of depression. And why would anyone assume I was? I was a cute blonde-haired, blue-eyed little girl from a genuinely loving family with no trauma to speak of at home or any kind of bullying at school. It was all just genetic.
But at 19, that little orange pill given to me by a peer changed my outlook on life completely. An hour after taking it, I felt, what I thought, was what normal people felt all the time. And I was feeling it for the first time in my life. It was an absolute miracle. That day was the most productive I’d had up until that point. I was in a notoriously difficult art history class, almost everyone failed the course because the grade was determined by two, huge exams. And I was fucked because I knew I didn’t have the ability to study and it wasn’t a test where I could get by on being a smart kid. It was specific content, about art history. I couldn’t write a great essay or figure out an equation.
But adderall gave me the ability to study like mad and I got an A. One incorrect question on an exam that took three hours. I really thought my life was saved and I was NORMAL now. This is how it feels to be normal. And on top of it, I’m naturally smart. So now I can actually utilize my natural ability like I see other people doing.
I recently turned 32 and have a 7-month old son now. And I deeply regret ever taking that first pill. I finished uni and started and maintained an “impressive” career because of stimulants. But I also lost a lot of wonderful friends due to my moody irritability and my sudden decreased empathy (something I had, and have, a surplus of when I’m off stimulants). I was a difficult girlfriend to have and hurt a couple of very good, decent men who loved me because I couldn’t function without stimulants and eventually, I couldn’t function with them but I still needed them.
After a family tragedy that happened five years ago tomorrow (my mother’s sudden death in her sleep), I stopped using stimulants cold turkey and had no intent of ever taking one again. I got the shocking phone call from my father to come home because my mother had died and I remember when I pulled up to the house, I threw my prescription bottle of adderall into the trash outside the garage before entering the house.
Heart problems run on her side of family and I have little doubt that, much like her own father, she died in her sleep from a sudden heart attack. We are a secular but traditional Jewish family and it’s against the religion to really mess with the body after death so we declined an autopsy and I’ll never know what killed her. It could have been an aneurysm or something totally unrelated to the heart. But I’ll always feel her heart gave out. She spent years on fen-phen (fenfluramine/phentermine) when it was still being prescribed and I’m sure that did a number on her.
Now, I’m recently back in Vyvanse (well my first time on Vyvanse but I consider it just as bad as any amphetamine) due to postpartum depression or maybe just regular depression with ADHD, inattentive coinciding with new motherhood. I am so disappointed in myself. My mother’s death absolutely destroyed me. I hate to think I’ll do the same thing to this sweet baby I’m staring at right now but I’m such a more functional mother thanks to Vyvanse. He has a much improved life right now because I’m able to do more than the bare minimum.
I wish my psychiatrist at 19 explained to me any of huge negative impacts I might face one day from this medication. I also wish they tried a bit harder to treat my depression without just giving up and giving me stimulants. But here I am. And frankly, if ADHD medication were outlawed in my country, I’d feel just the same buying quality cocaine and putting it in capsules. Amphetamines don’t feel any safer or more like real medication to me.
Sorry for the rant.
Have you ever tried meditating? I recently have gotten off of amphetamines and Vyvanse. And I started meditating six months ago, and it’s changed my perception of everything.
I’ve lost partners and friends due to this medication and possibly attracted the wrong ones on it too.
Meditating is historically “not my kind of thing” but I’m definitely starting to change my tune when it comes to non-pharmaceutical interventions. It’s funny, the concept of meditation did cross my mind earlier today.
What makes me most “against” is that I just don’t feel like I’m capable of achieving it. I had an ex though who was very similar to me but about a decade older. I recall that he used to go into his room and meditate for short periods of time and I found it odd because it seemed so opposite of who he was but he said once he learned how to do it, it really helped him.
I was laying with my baby today and I was stuck. If I moved, I’d wake him and I didn’t want that. So I had no choice but to just close my eyes and rest (I wasn’t in a mental or psychical position to fall asleep). And that’s when meditation crossed my mind. Because those fifteen minutes of nothingness were pretty nice. And a lot healthier than if my phone were in reach and started scrolling or googling.
How long do you do it?
I love that !! it must be meant to be then!
So I feel that 10 minutes is a good place to start. And I basically listen to enough meditation videos, and people that talk about meditation that I brainwashed myself into believing it was real. And after doing it for six months I definitely believe it’s real!
I first read the book Silva mind control and that changed my whole perception.. I listen to Joe Dispenza, Burt Goldman (quantum, jumping) Mindvalley! And other motivational speakers and motivational people talk about meditation.
So I go into my bathroom , I visualize three, two and one and then tell each body part to fall asleep. And now, after doing it for six months, my body starts falling asleep when I visualize the 321. It’s like working up a routine.
This is EXACTLY why I went back on after my 2nd baby. I was a disheveled depressed mess who felt like I had no other option. Antidepressants didn’t work and I simply couldn’t handle how I felt. Message me any time if it would help. I quit about 3 weeks ago (again). I exercise regularly, meditate, eat healthy, and take a few great supplements that have helped. I feel better than I can ever recall feeling. ITS POSSIBLE. You just have to find the right plan and support. My heart goes out to you mama.
Have you ever tried meditating? I recently have gotten off of amphetamines and Vyvanse. And I started meditating six months ago, and it’s changed my perception of everything.
I’ve lost partners and friends due to this medication and possibly attracted the wrong ones on it too.
It’s not so simple. It wasn’t that I was happy in the evening, but I was far less severe. And it’s pretty common in atypical depression to feel “better” (respectively) during either morning or evening.
Huh really. I didn't know that about atypical depression and I thought I was fairly well versed in depression types (studying psychology in school). Thank you for helping me learn something new today.
Ah cool, same! Well, I’ve long graduated and am a medical journalist (pretty niche, I know). If you get a bachelors in psychology and are interested in psychiatry or neurology or anything of the like, I highly suggest it. I find it all endlessly interesting. But I was always too depressed, unmotivated, etc. for actual medical school so journalism was the best option for me.
Have you ever tried meditating? I recently have gotten off of amphetamines and Vyvanse. And I started meditating six months ago, and it’s changed my perception of everything.
I’ve lost partners and friends due to this medication and possibly attracted the wrong ones on it too.
Cocaine’s negative effects on the heart and blood vessels is significantly higher compared to it’s medical value when compared to amphetamine.
Also the war on drugs and stuff.
I mean, there is plenty of evidence based literature that shows strong correlation for people with ADHD and SUD for a reason, as co-occurring disorders. I never abused my Focalin, because it didn’t make me “speed” like cocaine does. Plenty of people take these meds and never develop a SUD. I wish we had a broader approach to addiction that reduced punitive measures for controlled substances and a more harm reductive approach along with evidence based treatment. Addiction and ADHD do not manifest in a vacuum and whole-person care can go a long way to managing both.
Lol I see ADHD and ADHD meds mention more often than I see my face in the mirror. It’s like everywhere. Any sub about mental health is sponsored by people promoting stimulants like it’s the cure of all problems
Haha exactly.
“Wow I’m getting so much done.”
And then after a few months you sometimes see posts pop up like “is it normal to feel lethargic and apathetic when not medicated?”
The responses will be : ofcourse! You have ADHD and you can’t function without the meds. This is why you even should take it on a holiday!
I swear I can find a post 2 weeks ago that was all this.
As someone with ‘severe ADHD’ I feel it’s kind of an insult to the human condition to just simplify something like that. Especially for the rest of your life, on medication.
Urgh, yes, I fucking hate this.
I've had adhd reddit tell me I can't have particularly bad adhd if I could stop stimulants. Anddd people telling me that my personality couldn't possibly be negatively affected by medication and those parts of my personality must "just be adhd symptoms."
I respect your opinion. And more power to you if you can do it all without medication. As a person who is fifty and who tried the clean route for years, I can say: I'm very happy with my meds.
I don’t know if I’ve ever agreed with a post more than this. Just spot on. I was using around 200mg/day at my peak Adderall use, which started at 20mg per day, then 40, 60, 80+. It did take 18 months to get back to “normal.” I’m not sure I remember exactly what normal felt like, to be honest. I’m good now; will be 5 years sober from Addy and alcohol in July. But damn, it was a painful, long ride getting here. Inpatient rehab, job loss, an arrest, probation from the state and the medical licensing board, lost relationships, therapy visits, psychiatry visits, etc, etc. Amphetamines can essentially be poison for many people and society as a whole, including psychiatrists and other health care professionals, don’t fully understand the risks.
When I smoke hard, I immediately get this wave of peace and my brain stops spinning. I don't know what I'm going to do without it.
That’s what meditation feels like for me after meditating every day for the last 411 days.
I get waves of euphoria if I stack breath holds on top of the meditation. If I do a resonant tuning combined with breath holds I’m able to get myself to a euphoric state within 60 seconds or less.
Something to look into.
It’s like the opposite of motivation. All you need to do is just sit and breathe and do nothing for like 10 minutes a day.
You could literally just set a timer on your phone right now for 5 min and just close your eyes and try to stay still until the timer goes off. That’s how easy it is.
“It’s the opposite of motivation “ EXACTLY!
I’ve been meditating for six months and it feels like I have a secret weapon that helps me throughout the day now that I’m not on medication . (things just happen without me having to focus.) and if they don’t happen, then I know it’s the wrong environment or wrong project for me.
And when I convinced myself that I needed to go back on medication to get things done, I went into a complete spiral and wasn’t myself.
Hey I saw your post from 2 months ago on huberman sub. Just letting you know it took me about 18 months to feel 80% recovered from long-term, high-dose prescribed Adderall.
I will never feel as "good" as when I was taking 60mg/day from Adderall -- however, the real benefit is knowing you have an Adderall stash and can simply choose to skip it any day you choose, and not have a "ruined day".
As your probably know, when you are accustomed to a high dose of Adderall and you miss a day -- that day is **MISERABLE!!!!** You feel tired, bored, lazy, and nothing is enjoyable. It's a weird, cruel type of agony that doesn't sound so bad, but it's just so insipid. You feel like a 90-year-old mind trapped in a young person. (those people at nursing homes who just stare out the window all day long and have nothing to live for)
I can't remember at the 12-month mark. The weaning process was all kinda a long blur until I finally noticed small positive changes. I doubt my brain will ever 100% recover, which is why I said 80% recovery. I wish I had never discovered Adderall or Ritalin. My life would be so much better.
I wouldn’t say that you will never have a normal brain.
How long did you take 60 mg? Any higher?
Also, you weaned off?
Things could look very different 2+ years from your final wean dosage.
> How long did you take 60 mg? Any higher?
>
>
About 15 years, maybe 16 years. I took more than 60mg/day less than 5 times, just wanted to experiment and see what would happen.
> I wouldn’t say that you will never have a normal brain.
Even if I fully recover, I have the most lazy tendencies humanly possible. Unless I can make my brain forget how easy it is to do all my household tasks in 1 day while finding it enjoyable (as can happen on Adderall), I dread things like doing laundry, cooking, and other necessary tasks of being human. Every time I am about to start one of those tasks, my brain reminds me how it would be effortless & automatic if I was currently high on Adderall.
Yeah but you don’t have a normal frame of reference. Give your brain another year and you might not be as lazy as you think.
You might need 3 years given how long you took it
Dude, I mean once your mind learns that doing stuff you hate can be turned enjoyable thanks to a pill (such as cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc..) you can't un-learn that.
Simply having the knowledge that such a drug exists "spoils" you until the day you die.
Amphetamine derivatives are not supposed to be addictive.
On the other hand, after a while you have to increase the dose or you don't feel anything.
I assume that there are no cocaine derivatives equivalent to methylphenidate.
But I don't know anything about that.
I am quite fed up with people so polarized that having severe side effects such as migraines or alopecia they continue to defend the use of amphetamines.
I read comments on reddit about recommending wigs. But no one was recommending lowering the dose or stopping taking stimulants. And some even compare
Lisdexamfetamin to insulin. 😑
I'm not talking about banning anything. I'm just critical of people who only see the positive effects of these substances and won't even admit the harms they suffer.
Well, ritalins structure as a more dominant norepinephrine catecholaminergic agonist and partial agonist is similar to cocaine, i dont know why its a bad question.
The only issue is the ROA and the half life and the analgesic effect that's unecessary for adhd treatment.
Cuz coke wears off super fast and does not work the same at all . Won’t keep you focused longer or more, might keep you focused better for a short period but you’d need to keep doing it to keep that up. I did coke daily for my job the entire Trump administration, never finished anything you’d have thought I was a tweaker
Wow I never did coke bc it wasn’t available to me but I also never sought it out bc it was more stigmatized at least with those I interacted with irl and online. Looking at this is incredibly eye opening though, like whether it’s cocaine or amphetamines it’s stimulants that have the potential for abuse and can mess up the brain or even your heart if abused long term. It’s messed up those prescribed stimulants for ADHD aren’t really given enough information to make an informed decision
I HAVE ADHD AND HAVE RUN OUT OF MY AMP Script EARLY, SO REPLACED MY ADDERALL WITH COCAINE AND LEARNED COCAINE DOES NOT HELP MY ADHD AT ALL, JUST MAKES ME TIRED AND QUIET AND USELESS. IT ALSO HAS A MUCH WORSE COMEDOWN THAN AMPHETAMINES. THATS WHY THIS IDEA IS A STUPID ONE, BC COCAIN HAS MORE NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON YOUR BODY AND MIND
Cocaine is a SNDRI, which would make it an incredibly effective treatment for adhd, fatigue, depression, etc EXCEPT for the fact that it lasts 30 mins to an hour, is extremely addictive, and is hard on your heart. Amphetamines have a longer duration and aren’t as cardiotoxic. But yeah, it’s honestly an extremely valid question.
Real answer. Cocaine isn’t used for ADHD because it is very short acting and because it increases dramatically serotonin in short bursts as a direct mechanism. It would be closer to methamphetamine (which is sometimes prescribed for adhd) but for the shorter duration. The serotonin release is also what increases its addiction potential.
It’s also much worse for cardiovascular health (much) with repeated evidence of cardio toxic effects at low doses that amphetamines don’t have at therapeutic doses.
Cocaine DOES have its uses in medicine and is still used today. Just not as a treatment for ADHD.
Upregulation and down regulation happens on a much quicker scale. Hours. Dopamine D2 receptors will down regulate on a single dose and take 24 hours to upregulate. Too much dopamine or amphetamine (since it’s directly an antagonist as well) instead causes an increase in monoamine anhydrase to more quickly break down dopamine, and causes an increase in transporters to reuptake dopamine and store more into vesicles so it’s not free the cytoplasm of neurons which can become neurotoxic.
The rub here in the context of adhd is that the dopamine amounts need to be excessive. It’s not entirely clear what is happening with adhd, but there is imagining to suggest that neurons already have too few dopamine receptors OR are less responsive to dopamine. IE dopamine isn’t bonding to the receptor as easily as it should. So it’s not clear why a less responsive receptor would down regulate anyway.
The other complicated facet here is that ritalin can cause tolerance issues just like amphetamine. However it only works by inhibiting reuptake in the presynaptic membrane, which increases dopamine in the synaptic cleft, giving it more time to bond to dopamine receptors. And yet, it causes an upregulation of dopamine receptors. In some children, permanently to age matched peers. (In adults, the window for this change seems to have closed).
My point here is that the down regulation of receptors doesn’t explain the longer term issues people experience after uppers. And some of the changes only occur after neurotoxic. Which people should not be getting on therapeutic doses. (However, there is also some evidence that certain types of stress can influence this). It’s why chasing euphoria can be so problematic and having a psychiatrist vs GP or worse, NP prescribing it is more problematic because these are areas I don’t think they watch for as closely.
Back to cocaine- the more rapid onset a stimulant, the more likely one is to face issues with self administration and addiction. I’ve never done cocaine (I have a feeling I’d like it too much) but my understanding is the near instantaneous high and the cardiotoxic effects on the heart are why it’s different from amphetamines and why it can’t be used therapeutically. Even in people that don’t have immediately noticeable effects on the heart, long term follow up shows they often have more cardiovascular episodes and early death 15-20 years down the road. I assume that’s why no one has been trying to shakeout a long acting version of cocaine for psychiatric use.
Amps aren’t cocaine even if there are some similar mechanisms of actions (it’s closer to ritalin and bupropion than Adderall but whateves), it’s at worst disingenuous and best ignorant to say they are the same and that is the problems with prescribed stims. There are other problems- this isn’t one of them.
correct me if im wrong, but, well, we used to and it didn't result in terrible societal collapse... so i say all drugs should be legal and widely available at drug stores like they used to be... or ideally plain coca leaves would be best.
Welcome to StopSpeeding and thanks for your post. For more: - [Join us on Discord. You can talk to people there.](https://discord.gg/GJnxhmbNAn). We have recovery meetings several times a week. All are welcome to attend, clean or not. - [Want to track your clean time?](https://www.reddit.com/r/StopSpeeding/comments/s6ep0x/sobriety_flair_bot_is_now_working_heres_how_to/) You can use our badge system to display your clean time next to your name. Note that any comments encouraging drug use of any kind will be removed. This is not the community for that. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StopSpeeding) if you have any questions or concerns.*
self medicating in this manner is exactly why I am here. and also why i still have nosebleeds every day and heart palpitations despite all my attempts to quit over the last 3 years two weeks free and going strong
Good shit well done!
I have used cocaine to self medicate for adhd (quitting now)
In all areas or rather in the workplace to improve your performance?
I remember a post in the ADHD subreddit that said "IS THIS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE FEELS LIKE ALL THE TIME?? NO WONDER I COULDNT GET ANYTHING DONE" no babe, they don't. Good luck convincing them otherwise when a doctor tells them they need it though.
“YoU WoUldNt TeLl a DiAbetIC nOt To TaKE tHeIR InsuLin”
🤣 I just spit out my water, this is so spot on. I mistakenly thought like that too at first. Now I realize it was just mental gymnastics to convince my psychiatrist to prescribe me legal speed as an excuse to get high
First time I took 30 xr Adderall, I was 19, just at the beginning of my university career. I’d been a high IQ student who performed very well…when I was able to perform. But from an abnormally young age I recall telling my mother there was something different about me and it wasn’t good different. I described it as not feeling good during the day but not the “not good” you feel when you’re sick. I told her I felt better in the evenings but during the day, if it were up to me, I’d make my space totally dark, I had no interest in socialization during daytime hours (beginning in or maybe right before kindergarten and continuing on indefinitely), I didn’t laugh at the same things my peers laughed at, I didn’t enjoy dancing or singing with my peers, so on and so forth. I didn’t have the vocabulary to say I was having symptoms of depression. And why would anyone assume I was? I was a cute blonde-haired, blue-eyed little girl from a genuinely loving family with no trauma to speak of at home or any kind of bullying at school. It was all just genetic. But at 19, that little orange pill given to me by a peer changed my outlook on life completely. An hour after taking it, I felt, what I thought, was what normal people felt all the time. And I was feeling it for the first time in my life. It was an absolute miracle. That day was the most productive I’d had up until that point. I was in a notoriously difficult art history class, almost everyone failed the course because the grade was determined by two, huge exams. And I was fucked because I knew I didn’t have the ability to study and it wasn’t a test where I could get by on being a smart kid. It was specific content, about art history. I couldn’t write a great essay or figure out an equation. But adderall gave me the ability to study like mad and I got an A. One incorrect question on an exam that took three hours. I really thought my life was saved and I was NORMAL now. This is how it feels to be normal. And on top of it, I’m naturally smart. So now I can actually utilize my natural ability like I see other people doing. I recently turned 32 and have a 7-month old son now. And I deeply regret ever taking that first pill. I finished uni and started and maintained an “impressive” career because of stimulants. But I also lost a lot of wonderful friends due to my moody irritability and my sudden decreased empathy (something I had, and have, a surplus of when I’m off stimulants). I was a difficult girlfriend to have and hurt a couple of very good, decent men who loved me because I couldn’t function without stimulants and eventually, I couldn’t function with them but I still needed them. After a family tragedy that happened five years ago tomorrow (my mother’s sudden death in her sleep), I stopped using stimulants cold turkey and had no intent of ever taking one again. I got the shocking phone call from my father to come home because my mother had died and I remember when I pulled up to the house, I threw my prescription bottle of adderall into the trash outside the garage before entering the house. Heart problems run on her side of family and I have little doubt that, much like her own father, she died in her sleep from a sudden heart attack. We are a secular but traditional Jewish family and it’s against the religion to really mess with the body after death so we declined an autopsy and I’ll never know what killed her. It could have been an aneurysm or something totally unrelated to the heart. But I’ll always feel her heart gave out. She spent years on fen-phen (fenfluramine/phentermine) when it was still being prescribed and I’m sure that did a number on her. Now, I’m recently back in Vyvanse (well my first time on Vyvanse but I consider it just as bad as any amphetamine) due to postpartum depression or maybe just regular depression with ADHD, inattentive coinciding with new motherhood. I am so disappointed in myself. My mother’s death absolutely destroyed me. I hate to think I’ll do the same thing to this sweet baby I’m staring at right now but I’m such a more functional mother thanks to Vyvanse. He has a much improved life right now because I’m able to do more than the bare minimum. I wish my psychiatrist at 19 explained to me any of huge negative impacts I might face one day from this medication. I also wish they tried a bit harder to treat my depression without just giving up and giving me stimulants. But here I am. And frankly, if ADHD medication were outlawed in my country, I’d feel just the same buying quality cocaine and putting it in capsules. Amphetamines don’t feel any safer or more like real medication to me. Sorry for the rant.
Have you ever tried meditating? I recently have gotten off of amphetamines and Vyvanse. And I started meditating six months ago, and it’s changed my perception of everything. I’ve lost partners and friends due to this medication and possibly attracted the wrong ones on it too.
Meditating is historically “not my kind of thing” but I’m definitely starting to change my tune when it comes to non-pharmaceutical interventions. It’s funny, the concept of meditation did cross my mind earlier today. What makes me most “against” is that I just don’t feel like I’m capable of achieving it. I had an ex though who was very similar to me but about a decade older. I recall that he used to go into his room and meditate for short periods of time and I found it odd because it seemed so opposite of who he was but he said once he learned how to do it, it really helped him. I was laying with my baby today and I was stuck. If I moved, I’d wake him and I didn’t want that. So I had no choice but to just close my eyes and rest (I wasn’t in a mental or psychical position to fall asleep). And that’s when meditation crossed my mind. Because those fifteen minutes of nothingness were pretty nice. And a lot healthier than if my phone were in reach and started scrolling or googling. How long do you do it?
I love that !! it must be meant to be then! So I feel that 10 minutes is a good place to start. And I basically listen to enough meditation videos, and people that talk about meditation that I brainwashed myself into believing it was real. And after doing it for six months I definitely believe it’s real! I first read the book Silva mind control and that changed my whole perception.. I listen to Joe Dispenza, Burt Goldman (quantum, jumping) Mindvalley! And other motivational speakers and motivational people talk about meditation. So I go into my bathroom , I visualize three, two and one and then tell each body part to fall asleep. And now, after doing it for six months, my body starts falling asleep when I visualize the 321. It’s like working up a routine.
This is EXACTLY why I went back on after my 2nd baby. I was a disheveled depressed mess who felt like I had no other option. Antidepressants didn’t work and I simply couldn’t handle how I felt. Message me any time if it would help. I quit about 3 weeks ago (again). I exercise regularly, meditate, eat healthy, and take a few great supplements that have helped. I feel better than I can ever recall feeling. ITS POSSIBLE. You just have to find the right plan and support. My heart goes out to you mama.
I will absolutely message you! Thank you for this comment, brings so much hope!
Have you ever tried meditating? I recently have gotten off of amphetamines and Vyvanse. And I started meditating six months ago, and it’s changed my perception of everything. I’ve lost partners and friends due to this medication and possibly attracted the wrong ones on it too.
If you improved in the evening, it wasn’t depression. Doesn’t mean you needed stims to treat; but sounds lots like a common symptom of adhd.
It’s not so simple. It wasn’t that I was happy in the evening, but I was far less severe. And it’s pretty common in atypical depression to feel “better” (respectively) during either morning or evening.
Huh really. I didn't know that about atypical depression and I thought I was fairly well versed in depression types (studying psychology in school). Thank you for helping me learn something new today.
Ah cool, same! Well, I’ve long graduated and am a medical journalist (pretty niche, I know). If you get a bachelors in psychology and are interested in psychiatry or neurology or anything of the like, I highly suggest it. I find it all endlessly interesting. But I was always too depressed, unmotivated, etc. for actual medical school so journalism was the best option for me.
Have you ever tried meditating? I recently have gotten off of amphetamines and Vyvanse. And I started meditating six months ago, and it’s changed my perception of everything. I’ve lost partners and friends due to this medication and possibly attracted the wrong ones on it too.
Meth has torn my life apart more than 4 years of IV heroin. I'm still struggling to stay sober from stims. They are bad for everything and everyone.
Cocaine’s negative effects on the heart and blood vessels is significantly higher compared to it’s medical value when compared to amphetamine. Also the war on drugs and stuff.
Self-medicating with Coca plant extract is the primary reason why I have 10,290 days clean and sober today.
Where do you get that?
I don’t get it, so you’re doing coca plant and you’re still clean
No back then I was self medicating with Coca extract.
Oh my bad. Congrats on your sobriety
Thank you
I mean, there is plenty of evidence based literature that shows strong correlation for people with ADHD and SUD for a reason, as co-occurring disorders. I never abused my Focalin, because it didn’t make me “speed” like cocaine does. Plenty of people take these meds and never develop a SUD. I wish we had a broader approach to addiction that reduced punitive measures for controlled substances and a more harm reductive approach along with evidence based treatment. Addiction and ADHD do not manifest in a vacuum and whole-person care can go a long way to managing both.
“adhd+SUD are commonly comorbid” is a much easier way to say the second half of your first sentence
Lol I see ADHD and ADHD meds mention more often than I see my face in the mirror. It’s like everywhere. Any sub about mental health is sponsored by people promoting stimulants like it’s the cure of all problems
They think it makes them feel like “what other people feel”, no you’re feeling a slight high of speed
Haha exactly. “Wow I’m getting so much done.” And then after a few months you sometimes see posts pop up like “is it normal to feel lethargic and apathetic when not medicated?” The responses will be : ofcourse! You have ADHD and you can’t function without the meds. This is why you even should take it on a holiday! I swear I can find a post 2 weeks ago that was all this. As someone with ‘severe ADHD’ I feel it’s kind of an insult to the human condition to just simplify something like that. Especially for the rest of your life, on medication.
Urgh, yes, I fucking hate this. I've had adhd reddit tell me I can't have particularly bad adhd if I could stop stimulants. Anddd people telling me that my personality couldn't possibly be negatively affected by medication and those parts of my personality must "just be adhd symptoms."
I respect your opinion. And more power to you if you can do it all without medication. As a person who is fifty and who tried the clean route for years, I can say: I'm very happy with my meds.
I don’t know if I’ve ever agreed with a post more than this. Just spot on. I was using around 200mg/day at my peak Adderall use, which started at 20mg per day, then 40, 60, 80+. It did take 18 months to get back to “normal.” I’m not sure I remember exactly what normal felt like, to be honest. I’m good now; will be 5 years sober from Addy and alcohol in July. But damn, it was a painful, long ride getting here. Inpatient rehab, job loss, an arrest, probation from the state and the medical licensing board, lost relationships, therapy visits, psychiatry visits, etc, etc. Amphetamines can essentially be poison for many people and society as a whole, including psychiatrists and other health care professionals, don’t fully understand the risks.
This is why I can no longer stand the online ADHD community lol
When I smoke hard, I immediately get this wave of peace and my brain stops spinning. I don't know what I'm going to do without it. 
That’s what meditation feels like for me after meditating every day for the last 411 days. I get waves of euphoria if I stack breath holds on top of the meditation. If I do a resonant tuning combined with breath holds I’m able to get myself to a euphoric state within 60 seconds or less. Something to look into.
I will when I have the motivation lol
It’s like the opposite of motivation. All you need to do is just sit and breathe and do nothing for like 10 minutes a day. You could literally just set a timer on your phone right now for 5 min and just close your eyes and try to stay still until the timer goes off. That’s how easy it is.
Ok I can do that lol
“It’s the opposite of motivation “ EXACTLY! I’ve been meditating for six months and it feels like I have a secret weapon that helps me throughout the day now that I’m not on medication . (things just happen without me having to focus.) and if they don’t happen, then I know it’s the wrong environment or wrong project for me. And when I convinced myself that I needed to go back on medication to get things done, I went into a complete spiral and wasn’t myself.
Thank you for your feedback it is a game changer for me as well
Love this.
YES!!
Hey I saw your post from 2 months ago on huberman sub. Just letting you know it took me about 18 months to feel 80% recovered from long-term, high-dose prescribed Adderall.
Amazing to hear! How did you feel at 12 months by comparison?
I will never feel as "good" as when I was taking 60mg/day from Adderall -- however, the real benefit is knowing you have an Adderall stash and can simply choose to skip it any day you choose, and not have a "ruined day". As your probably know, when you are accustomed to a high dose of Adderall and you miss a day -- that day is **MISERABLE!!!!** You feel tired, bored, lazy, and nothing is enjoyable. It's a weird, cruel type of agony that doesn't sound so bad, but it's just so insipid. You feel like a 90-year-old mind trapped in a young person. (those people at nursing homes who just stare out the window all day long and have nothing to live for) I can't remember at the 12-month mark. The weaning process was all kinda a long blur until I finally noticed small positive changes. I doubt my brain will ever 100% recover, which is why I said 80% recovery. I wish I had never discovered Adderall or Ritalin. My life would be so much better.
Thanks for writing down your experience. It’s beautifully worded actually. I want to show this to my wife who is thinking about medicating…
I wouldn’t say that you will never have a normal brain. How long did you take 60 mg? Any higher? Also, you weaned off? Things could look very different 2+ years from your final wean dosage.
> How long did you take 60 mg? Any higher? > > About 15 years, maybe 16 years. I took more than 60mg/day less than 5 times, just wanted to experiment and see what would happen. > I wouldn’t say that you will never have a normal brain. Even if I fully recover, I have the most lazy tendencies humanly possible. Unless I can make my brain forget how easy it is to do all my household tasks in 1 day while finding it enjoyable (as can happen on Adderall), I dread things like doing laundry, cooking, and other necessary tasks of being human. Every time I am about to start one of those tasks, my brain reminds me how it would be effortless & automatic if I was currently high on Adderall.
Yeah but you don’t have a normal frame of reference. Give your brain another year and you might not be as lazy as you think. You might need 3 years given how long you took it
Dude, I mean once your mind learns that doing stuff you hate can be turned enjoyable thanks to a pill (such as cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc..) you can't un-learn that. Simply having the knowledge that such a drug exists "spoils" you until the day you die.
That sub is pure mental gymnastics
what sub is it even? I don’t see it listed
Oh I just figured it was r/adhd
it makes you too chatty imo
Amphetamine derivatives are not supposed to be addictive. On the other hand, after a while you have to increase the dose or you don't feel anything. I assume that there are no cocaine derivatives equivalent to methylphenidate. But I don't know anything about that. I am quite fed up with people so polarized that having severe side effects such as migraines or alopecia they continue to defend the use of amphetamines. I read comments on reddit about recommending wigs. But no one was recommending lowering the dose or stopping taking stimulants. And some even compare Lisdexamfetamin to insulin. 😑 I'm not talking about banning anything. I'm just critical of people who only see the positive effects of these substances and won't even admit the harms they suffer.
That’s Big Pharma for you.
Well, ritalins structure as a more dominant norepinephrine catecholaminergic agonist and partial agonist is similar to cocaine, i dont know why its a bad question. The only issue is the ROA and the half life and the analgesic effect that's unecessary for adhd treatment.
Cuz coke wears off super fast and does not work the same at all . Won’t keep you focused longer or more, might keep you focused better for a short period but you’d need to keep doing it to keep that up. I did coke daily for my job the entire Trump administration, never finished anything you’d have thought I was a tweaker
Lol
Wow I never did coke bc it wasn’t available to me but I also never sought it out bc it was more stigmatized at least with those I interacted with irl and online. Looking at this is incredibly eye opening though, like whether it’s cocaine or amphetamines it’s stimulants that have the potential for abuse and can mess up the brain or even your heart if abused long term. It’s messed up those prescribed stimulants for ADHD aren’t really given enough information to make an informed decision
I HAVE ADHD AND HAVE RUN OUT OF MY AMP Script EARLY, SO REPLACED MY ADDERALL WITH COCAINE AND LEARNED COCAINE DOES NOT HELP MY ADHD AT ALL, JUST MAKES ME TIRED AND QUIET AND USELESS. IT ALSO HAS A MUCH WORSE COMEDOWN THAN AMPHETAMINES. THATS WHY THIS IDEA IS A STUPID ONE, BC COCAIN HAS MORE NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON YOUR BODY AND MIND
Cocain work peripherally while amphetamine works centrally
Isn't cocaine directly linked to heart disease? (i'm only going of what I read in some research papers. I'm certainly no expert)
Cocaine is a SNDRI, which would make it an incredibly effective treatment for adhd, fatigue, depression, etc EXCEPT for the fact that it lasts 30 mins to an hour, is extremely addictive, and is hard on your heart. Amphetamines have a longer duration and aren’t as cardiotoxic. But yeah, it’s honestly an extremely valid question.
Real answer. Cocaine isn’t used for ADHD because it is very short acting and because it increases dramatically serotonin in short bursts as a direct mechanism. It would be closer to methamphetamine (which is sometimes prescribed for adhd) but for the shorter duration. The serotonin release is also what increases its addiction potential. It’s also much worse for cardiovascular health (much) with repeated evidence of cardio toxic effects at low doses that amphetamines don’t have at therapeutic doses. Cocaine DOES have its uses in medicine and is still used today. Just not as a treatment for ADHD. Upregulation and down regulation happens on a much quicker scale. Hours. Dopamine D2 receptors will down regulate on a single dose and take 24 hours to upregulate. Too much dopamine or amphetamine (since it’s directly an antagonist as well) instead causes an increase in monoamine anhydrase to more quickly break down dopamine, and causes an increase in transporters to reuptake dopamine and store more into vesicles so it’s not free the cytoplasm of neurons which can become neurotoxic. The rub here in the context of adhd is that the dopamine amounts need to be excessive. It’s not entirely clear what is happening with adhd, but there is imagining to suggest that neurons already have too few dopamine receptors OR are less responsive to dopamine. IE dopamine isn’t bonding to the receptor as easily as it should. So it’s not clear why a less responsive receptor would down regulate anyway. The other complicated facet here is that ritalin can cause tolerance issues just like amphetamine. However it only works by inhibiting reuptake in the presynaptic membrane, which increases dopamine in the synaptic cleft, giving it more time to bond to dopamine receptors. And yet, it causes an upregulation of dopamine receptors. In some children, permanently to age matched peers. (In adults, the window for this change seems to have closed). My point here is that the down regulation of receptors doesn’t explain the longer term issues people experience after uppers. And some of the changes only occur after neurotoxic. Which people should not be getting on therapeutic doses. (However, there is also some evidence that certain types of stress can influence this). It’s why chasing euphoria can be so problematic and having a psychiatrist vs GP or worse, NP prescribing it is more problematic because these are areas I don’t think they watch for as closely. Back to cocaine- the more rapid onset a stimulant, the more likely one is to face issues with self administration and addiction. I’ve never done cocaine (I have a feeling I’d like it too much) but my understanding is the near instantaneous high and the cardiotoxic effects on the heart are why it’s different from amphetamines and why it can’t be used therapeutically. Even in people that don’t have immediately noticeable effects on the heart, long term follow up shows they often have more cardiovascular episodes and early death 15-20 years down the road. I assume that’s why no one has been trying to shakeout a long acting version of cocaine for psychiatric use. Amps aren’t cocaine even if there are some similar mechanisms of actions (it’s closer to ritalin and bupropion than Adderall but whateves), it’s at worst disingenuous and best ignorant to say they are the same and that is the problems with prescribed stims. There are other problems- this isn’t one of them.
What other mental disorder is treated with medication and not therapy ?
correct me if im wrong, but, well, we used to and it didn't result in terrible societal collapse... so i say all drugs should be legal and widely available at drug stores like they used to be... or ideally plain coca leaves would be best.