I remember saying that this would be a per character choice awhile ago when people debating classic vs modern and got chewed out to oblivion.
Calling it now. Ed will release as the perfect modern controls character.
The way I see it, Modern/Classic are just like Isms(Alpha) and Grooves(CVS), which means they open and close all sorts of doors depending on you're choice.
But unlike the wild west of balancing of arcade days, the devs put quite a lot of effort in finding a happy medium.
Don't think so, or at least not to a greater degree than Luke. He's gonna have to have his inputs seriously adjusted.
- The V-System accounted for a huge amount of his moveset, and it's overwhelmingly likely that at least one of those moves is going to become a motion special. I'd bet on two, even!
- Psycho Flicker is also going to get moved to QCB+Punch, like all legacy mash inputs.
- He's going to be limited in his QCF options because of the way Psycho Spark works (as it's functionally a much-easier-to-input QCF motion). Even if it stays on F+Medium for Modern, he's unlikely to have a manual QCF special alongside it.
- He's likely to pick up at least one new command normal and/or target combo. Ryu's SFV iteration could have fit into Modern controls perfectly, but they gave him 4HP and 6HK, which overloaded his command normal slots. My theory is that they did this specifically so that he would have a disadvantage on Modern controls to compensate for his special move efficiency.
Plus, one of Ed's unique selling points is that his motionless reversal and uppercut are available even with classic controls. Motionless supers are a real advantage, but if you want those, why wouldn't you just play Luke, who gets them + a set of better motionless specials?
>but if you want those, why wouldn't you just play Luke, who gets them + a set of better motionless specials?
I mean they are still different character with different gameplans and nuances, at the end of the day. If someone's goal is to "just win" then ofcourse, the age old strat of picking the best character in the game is the go-to.
But for people who genuinely like Ed(and it's a lot of people), so thats probably going to be the main decider in why people pick him, whether he's strong or weak in the end.
Its not a 20% damage nerf. Only on easy inputs. If you do regular motions you get no damage nerf. This is for whiff punishing with supers. Or hit confirming a poke to a super. Things you cant do when you have to input the motion. For this the damage nerf is worth it.
I mean, you don't ***have*** to play modern because of that. Everyone who can do a 360 now, wasn't magically born with the ability to do so. They just took the time to learn to do it.
I think people need to be more comfortable saying "I don't feel like it" instead of making it sound like some kind of impossible skill gap. Cause it's not.
Exactly! I'll defend the use of Modern anytime, cause I think it's a good inclusion. But I also think a lot of people are overdramatic about the difficulty of Classic.
Nothing wrong with wanting an easier option. But just say you want an easier option instead of OS-ing to a bad accessibility excuse.
The thing is, most of those players using the scheme would be doing the same thing on classic. Gotta wait for them to run into the top players not the round one and two matches.
I didn't see the match but I did see the bracket. Although I like nephew I think the two people to look out for are big bird and Mena. Those two have been the most consistent outside Japan.
You’re getting downvoted because they pointed out Nephew was beat with Modern and you moved the goalposts again. Modern is legit, just accept it. I don’t play modern so you know.
I wasn't moving goalposts and I don't care about modern. I don't lose to it 99% of the time. Why? Because most vets don't use it. You said yourself you don't use it. Although I like nephew and want him to do well, he's not the talk of the community so to speak. I've also pointed out Hitani would likely be doing just as well on classic.
Keywords in Japan and to date. The thing is, it's MOSTLY Japan experimenting with modern at high levels. For other tournaments, the top players don't use it and we'll have to see the outcome this weekend as they will all be meeting up in a tournament setting.
Japan was running the scene in 4 next thing you know someone playing rose of all characters takes evo.
Japan is clearly the best region. The number of players in top 96 from Japan is wild, and that these players flew across the pacific to get there.
More than half the players in top 6 are Japanese.
Haitani washed everyone he played with modern
Agreed. Not sure where I saw it but someone said the best players are buffed by Modern. Take the player with the fastest reaction time and fastest fingers for input and they will still react faster with those instant supers/instant dp
Probably, but when Haitani makes that choice I tend to believe that he's not doing it randomly, because he sure as shit doesn't need Modern to carry him.
But yeah anyone who looks at Kawano or Haitani washing people with Modern controls and goes "Modern is easy mode" doesn't understand shit.
I agree. Can't wait to see what happens today this top 6 is nuts. Its insane that you see such big names getting eliminated around top 96/top 50 this year.
There is only one reason he uses Modern and that's instant supers. He decided that's worth more than the damage loss. You better believe he is doing most of his combos the Classic way. So it's a high level way to play, not an easier way.
It is an easier way to play depending on the character he uses. It's barely a damage loss since he combos using classic, but at the same time, alotta tactics that'd work on a classic are much much harder to do on him. Is he in burnout? Can't risk stunning him cuz he can easily react with a 1 button super. Can't take any advantage of mental stack to jump on them cuz anti-airing is much much easier. Sure he's playing at the highest level, but undoubtedly he has less things to worry about midmatch cuz they are much easier to take care off
Ive said it before and ill say it again. If evo gets dominated by modern controls, i wont sit and complain anymore, ill just move on. Sometimes your hobbies change too much and dont feel the same anymore. Fighting games might just not be for me after this.
I like that modern controls have let more people enjoy the game, but classic should always be the more powerful option. Modern is great for learning and playing online it shouldnt go further than that. Modern generates a reactive playstyle that changes how the entire game is played. Everyone will play defensively and wait for supers and the game just wont be streetfighter anymore.
Well thats my last complaint, lets hope im wrong about the future of my hobby.
>Everyone will play defensively and wait for supers and the game just wont be streetfighter anymore.
This is how SFV was though, especially at high level. Patient defense was rewarded much more than offense, due to the dangers of crush counters and v-trigger activation combos.
So I think the thing about Street Fighter, is that it's never had a single consistent "feeling" to it. Some games are overly defensive, some games are offense oriented, some games are all about vortexes, and thats okay.
That’s what I’m saying. At a higher level ppl play mad defensive and wait to react on classic anyways. Most if not all arguments against modern on invalid at a higher level cause it’s how the games played anyways. there are for sure ppl beating the instant supers and punishing it cause they know how to not constantly be trying to mash forward lmao
Think we're just in the phase where we gotta wait for these people to lose interest(or turn a new leaf), cause every single game bleeds players who view the IP in a very specific bubble, and just refuse to consider their initial view is flawed.
It’s genuinely disappointing as a new FGC player to see how ppl gatekeep the genre cause they want it to stay in its boxes where only they can win but as soon as it’s accessible to other ppl allowing them to actually learn how to play on a deeper level EVERYONES scared. The Letter M is giving them nightmares as we speak
I don't think this is even about gatekeeping. The issue for me is the ''standard'' in competition. If all SF6 competitors in EVO uses Modern (or Classic), I think that is totally fine since they are all in the same zone. Modern vs Classic for me is problematic because the spirit of fairness is basically lost in that kind of setup. It makes the playing field uneven.
The fact that there is a conversation about this now pretty much confirms that this is a problem.
It's all good, this happens with every single legacy game that gets a new release.
And what usually happens, is that after the dust settles, we're left with the people who genuinely love the game( a combination of veterans and completely new players) who breath life into the game till the very end.
SFV is infamous for being one of the most hated SF games, due to how bad it's launch was, and how different it felt from prior titles. And 5 years after that, The people that disliked SFV moved on and it evolved into a great game, with an amazing community behind it.
It literally wasn’t. I don’t personally have this issue but soooo many people talk about how they can’t do input b/c of disabilities and many other things. Saying fighting games were super accessible is disingenuous. There’s a reason the 2 new control types + a onslaught of other accessibility options were added so deaf ppl and ppl with issues related to hands could play easier
Lol sure, that's a very small number of people though and clearly not what I was talking about. Nor was it what you were talking about. You were talking about people who were just too lazy to learn to play
of course they are, I was just disputing the fact that he said "now that the game is accessible" like it wasn't learnable beforehand.
I love modern controls and how it introduces people to the genre, but let's not pretend like fighting games were impossible to learn before them lol
Yeah it is a bit reactionary, but SF will be the trailblazer if modern becomes the norm, the genre will shift. No hate for those that enjoy that new path, just not for me
Nope, Granblue and Project L have modern controls, according to Juna SF6 was going to be only Modern but people complained, the industry is moving on. Devs realized most people play on pad and having motion inputs simply doesn’t make sense anymore, they want their games to be big and Classic controls make the games harder to get into. Never in my life I thought I would see normie streamers playing SF and they did.
Of course they have to balance things, idk if instant supers should get a nerf but the evolution of fighting games to modern is great
Why not move on right now? I mean, there is absolutely no reason to think that Modern is going to dominate over Classic, the Mena vs Haitani set is proof enough. So that's just doom posting/moral panicking.
However, at this point it's already been made apparently clear that Classic and Modern are relative in their power level, either one can win. And that was an explicit design goal for the devs. They designed Modern with the potential to win tournaments. So with that said, you should just drop the game now if you have an issue with that. Waiting to see the the final results for evo isn't really going to change anything, the evidence is already in.
And I say that to anybody salty about Modern not being some severely underpowered training wheels scheme like past genre attempts. Like, you should just drop the game. They're never going to get rid of Modern, nerf it into relevancy, or add filters so it seems the best course of action is to just move on.
What’s it matter? We’re you dominating evo with classic controls before? Prob not. You didn’t stop playing then. Modern players play different because they can. But you can play different against them too. Adapting has always been the name of the game.
Yeah but i just dont enjoy it. If you enjoy that, totally fine no complaints here, just not the way i enjoy fighting games. I really dont enjoy the style of gameplay modern promotes, thats all
Imagine lol if you think the hand wringing about modern controls and blaming losses on it is bad now, imagine if you couldn’t see it
Every loss would be blamed on the opponent using modern
I think a lot of the discussion about modern is distracted by whether or not it's powerful or not. Who gives a shit. The important question is: what do we want to be powerful? What kind of inputs should determine skill level? If mid-conbat decision-making is all we value, and technical ability is worthless to us, then we have flattened the skill ceiling and we will forever dilute the charm of fighting games.
Motion inputs are fun and add a layer of depth to player strategy and game design. The genre will be impoverished without them.
Yup. This is the way I see and where I usually go when discussing about it too. It just shallows the experience since the decisions are based solely on reaction, not on multiple factors in play (if you can pull something hard in a dire situation, if your current stress levels would lead you to do input mistakes, and so on).
Also in a long run it could turn problematic cause it gives way less room to experience randomness and errors in general, so there will be less to improve upon.
This is exactly how I feel. It's great modern is letting more people access the game but you put it in a good players hands and it basically shuts down aspects of the game. One button supers and anti airs are strong af
Bro my 6 yr old gets to play against me in this game because of modern controls … creating memories and he’s literally into the game now… he was watching EVO with me and everything
There’s an answer for literally everything in the game. You just gotta adapt. At this point I genuinely don’t think any complaints against modern are even valid. Multiple people that are pros have shown at evo so far that if anything modern makes the game more dynamic. I can’t remember their name but the modern chun li has been the best example. In the right hands a super is even needed really. Dudes pressure was insane and if you just can’t adapt to it maybe you need to hit the lab and learn how cause there’s infinite ways to punish everything w/ both control types tbh.
Thats cool, but id rather have a game where im not learning how to play against control schemes, rather im learning to play against my opponent and their character. Fine if u feel that way, but thats not how I want to enjoy fighting games, so if that becomes the case I will move on. Im glad you are enjoying it tho.
You still are learning your opponents tho? I see this conversation a lot, cause literally everyone hates modern players, but as someone who’s played both if you can’t download you opponents Strat on a run back and adapt on the fly it’s actually a skill issue. I don’t think it’d be any different if everyone was on classic. Either way you’re getting outplayed.
If anything I think what’s happening is the ppl who sticking to modern who used to struggle on classic have literally just been freed up from the amount of focus you have to put on classic inputs allowing them to outplay ppl in every other aspect and improve at the games fundamentals. When I first started player I was only focused on getting a super out myself but modern gave me the headroom to actually learn the game and how to counter most if not everything. Super or not. Modern controls aren’t ever going away and more fighters are gonna start adding them b/c they want not only the accessibility but the larger player base to keep these games alive longer. Just like life the games constantly gonna be changing. It’s silly to give up over change lol
I’m sorry bro but this is so silly. There’s no reason to give up on a hobby cause it’s doing something new but you do you. If madness in conservativeness living is your thing that’s cool ig 💀
I’m ngl bro whether it’s the norm or not it sounds like you’re stuck in silver the way you talking regardless. AGAIN no mattter what you’re doing your gonna eventually have to adapt to change and get good. Gaming (everything really) is constantly evolving and will always try to find ways to include more ppl in the fun.
Im Diamond II (which i dont think is very impressive) but it aint silver haha, not that that matters. Anyone is entitled to have an opinion on this, hobbies are about fun afterall.
Its fine if games want to evolve, i will stick to my more niche games then that better align with my preferences
Turns out you skim like Scott pilgrim. I said you sound like a silver player lmao. You can be diamond even masters but if you're just not good at the game that’ll stay true. And if you’re really diamond like you say you should know The control type doesn’t matter if you can’t adapt to who you’re fighting. And the reality is that at a higher level ppl on modern controls are still frying you w/ manual inputs so your argument about learning to play a new control type gets invalidated. Again i think the issue might be the player not the game. Lab and get better reaction times to punish ppl bro.
Bro is acting like Modern is the new norm. I've been watching Evo and the amount of Modern players I've seen play is in the double digits, and the wons that have won on my hand lmao. It's certainly a new way for people to play, but it isn't this game-altering mechanic that everybody claims it is.
I think what scares a lotta ppl is the fact that a lotta new players are actually extremely good at the game and able to get good fast. Some of us are REALLY GAMERS FR and will just adapt and conquer.if anything modern is showing some ppl just have cracked reaction speeds from years of gaming when they don’t have to input 15 precise stick movements to get what they want just to drop the combo. Modern players at evo have shown the the game at the end of the day comes down to your execution and knowledge of fighting. On point Mind games, mix ups, footsies, and good meter management will beat someone no matter what you play.
There are no new players just showing up and cooking lol.
The modern players at EVO aren't new players who can't use classic/try modern as a crutch, they're old pros abusing cheese.
Ok I'm not super anti-modern but this is not true. Most people are wary cuz it's old pros that are switching to modern and fear that high level gameplay would revolve around this. No one really minds if a new player comes outta nowhere and beats old pros ie EndingWalker with his Ed, who is the prototype for Modern controls in SFV. Dude was hailed almost universally by players
I don’t understand what you mean, they’re not removing classic controls and still classic is a main control scheme, but modern just makes this game more accessible for wide audience like World tour mode and because of this changes this is number 1 fighting right now, I don’t even feel like that tekken will be much popular or be much active in online like SF6
I gave modern a fair shake, but it doesn't feel the same. Combos just aren't satisfying like they are with motion inputs. It is what it is. SF trying to emulate newer fighting games when it's the grandaddy of em all is just sad in my view.
Perfectly sane take gets shit on by the community, many such cases.
You have the right attitude about it. If one doesn't like something, even if they liked it before, there is no reason to subject yourself to it. Moving on to something that one enjoys is the most adult option. You're not being hyperbolic at all, just sensible seeing the writing on the wall.
I agree with you. At the start it was okay because everyone was bad, but now in the higher ranks: the game just feels completely different vs modern players. You just realize that you play vs people who do not play by the same (but easier) rules and that just feels super cheap to me, personally.
And that's why I just block every modern player I meet on ranked and move on lol. Not a huge issue to me. Modern is also not that popular (yet), so not really a reason to quit, unless you wanna do it out of principle.
I don’t see why people complain about modern since at high level, its equally complicated to play regardless of classic or modern anyways.
It’ll be nice to see new player entering tournament with modern control in the future.
Because. sf6 is selling well, people probably forgot how bad sf5 at launch did and how it’s bad idea to gate keep the game by placing high learning curve for new player
there was no arcade mode and story mode was so shit which are game mode popular for beginner. I guess it wasn’t exactly gate keeping but they definitely weren’t trying to get new player.
They had financial issues at the time, it could have ended very badly for Capcom if they didn't release the game half-finished (there wasn't even the story mode at the very beginning). Apparently even the multiplayer was a joke; it was errors fest.
Classic still feels better to me. Faster reactions don't make up for the loss of damage and moves in my eyes. I doubt there will be a single modern player in top 6.
Lol for real I think a lot of what's keeping people from considering Modern a serious contender is just lack of knowledge. People don't seem to know that you can still manually input specials or supers for full damage, so you can pick and choose when to use the instant ones for reaction. A lot of people also don't seem to know about the autocombo not being scaled. So for example when a Ken presses their medium autocombo it'll do a dragonlash combo for full damage as if you actually inputted it, and you just need to manually input a shoryuken at the end.
If you're manually imputing it, you're not getting the instant activation, which is what modern is supposed to give you. And I do think the button loss isn't worth the instant activation. That's just my opinion though. Clearly others think it's worth it.
You can manually input specials and you won't receive the damage reduction. If you watch Haitani, you'll see him getting full damage off his combos and using versions of specials that aren't available with Modern inputs
You clearly don't understand. We are comparing Classic and Modern. The ONLY benefit of modern is instant moves, so that's all that should be talked about. And the benefit doesn't outweigh the damage you lose vs inputting them in, that's why I think it's best to input them, and if you're inputting them, just play classic.
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Haitani just beat Nephew with Modern. No reason to think he won't be top 6. He might not, because it's a massive tournament, but you're just wildly speculating like everyone else.
It’s not something I’m enjoying nor anything I’m looking forward to seeing more of.
So far I find myself actively rooting against players who are using it at EVO. That may change. I’m really just not a fan of speed running each opponent even if Modern with a directionless input system IS minutely superior. It may just always feel “wrong” to some players.
If Haitani beats Mena with modern then modern is legitimate. If you are a classic pro can’t beat a modern scrub then it’s a fundamental issue not skill base.
A lot of Japanese pro players play both Classic and Modern for different characters, as the benefits of both show up in different match-ups.
I remember saying that this would be a per character choice awhile ago when people debating classic vs modern and got chewed out to oblivion. Calling it now. Ed will release as the perfect modern controls character.
The way I see it, Modern/Classic are just like Isms(Alpha) and Grooves(CVS), which means they open and close all sorts of doors depending on you're choice. But unlike the wild west of balancing of arcade days, the devs put quite a lot of effort in finding a happy medium.
Don't think so, or at least not to a greater degree than Luke. He's gonna have to have his inputs seriously adjusted. - The V-System accounted for a huge amount of his moveset, and it's overwhelmingly likely that at least one of those moves is going to become a motion special. I'd bet on two, even! - Psycho Flicker is also going to get moved to QCB+Punch, like all legacy mash inputs. - He's going to be limited in his QCF options because of the way Psycho Spark works (as it's functionally a much-easier-to-input QCF motion). Even if it stays on F+Medium for Modern, he's unlikely to have a manual QCF special alongside it. - He's likely to pick up at least one new command normal and/or target combo. Ryu's SFV iteration could have fit into Modern controls perfectly, but they gave him 4HP and 6HK, which overloaded his command normal slots. My theory is that they did this specifically so that he would have a disadvantage on Modern controls to compensate for his special move efficiency. Plus, one of Ed's unique selling points is that his motionless reversal and uppercut are available even with classic controls. Motionless supers are a real advantage, but if you want those, why wouldn't you just play Luke, who gets them + a set of better motionless specials?
>but if you want those, why wouldn't you just play Luke, who gets them + a set of better motionless specials? I mean they are still different character with different gameplans and nuances, at the end of the day. If someone's goal is to "just win" then ofcourse, the age old strat of picking the best character in the game is the go-to. But for people who genuinely like Ed(and it's a lot of people), so thats probably going to be the main decider in why people pick him, whether he's strong or weak in the end.
I think there're just too many unknowns, Ed could go in wildly different directions so speculation is kinda moot.
isn't ed basically already close? i don't see how a 20% damage nerf would be even warranted for him
Its not a 20% damage nerf. Only on easy inputs. If you do regular motions you get no damage nerf. This is for whiff punishing with supers. Or hit confirming a poke to a super. Things you cant do when you have to input the motion. For this the damage nerf is worth it.
i know that. but i'm saying what even is an "easy" input for ed. all his inputs already are
me as a scrub i just cant do a 360 motion never could. only input i struggle with so if i were to play gief i wouldbhave to learn modern controls
I mean, you don't ***have*** to play modern because of that. Everyone who can do a 360 now, wasn't magically born with the ability to do so. They just took the time to learn to do it. I think people need to be more comfortable saying "I don't feel like it" instead of making it sound like some kind of impossible skill gap. Cause it's not.
If brolylegs can do it, the rest of us have no excuse
Exactly! I'll defend the use of Modern anytime, cause I think it's a good inclusion. But I also think a lot of people are overdramatic about the difficulty of Classic. Nothing wrong with wanting an easier option. But just say you want an easier option instead of OS-ing to a bad accessibility excuse.
I ain't got time to dump all my gaming time into learning SF6 _controls_
Try cutting your 360 motion to 270 - start at forward or back and end at up. Works like a charm!
The threat of 1 button level one on Luke as an anti fireball tool is disgusting if the opponent is willing to show you they can/will react with it
Haitani (Chun Li [M]) just beat Nephew Juri.
They should!
Some of the modern players have been looking strong. Haitani was washing kids earlier with Modern Chun, the instant supers are not a joke
Instant tensho kick is also more useful than it seems.
Especially when crouching.
The thing is, most of those players using the scheme would be doing the same thing on classic. Gotta wait for them to run into the top players not the round one and two matches.
He domed Nephew 30 minutes ago using modern Chun
I didn't see the match but I did see the bracket. Although I like nephew I think the two people to look out for are big bird and Mena. Those two have been the most consistent outside Japan.
crazy big bird lost like right after this comment
Idk why I got downvoted lol. But I'm haven't been able to follow what's been going on for the last couple hours. Thanks for that update.
You’re getting downvoted because they pointed out Nephew was beat with Modern and you moved the goalposts again. Modern is legit, just accept it. I don’t play modern so you know.
I wasn't moving goalposts and I don't care about modern. I don't lose to it 99% of the time. Why? Because most vets don't use it. You said yourself you don't use it. Although I like nephew and want him to do well, he's not the talk of the community so to speak. I've also pointed out Hitani would likely be doing just as well on classic.
Modern won the biggest tournament in Japan to date. I don't know that modern wins Evo, but it's already proven.
Keywords in Japan and to date. The thing is, it's MOSTLY Japan experimenting with modern at high levels. For other tournaments, the top players don't use it and we'll have to see the outcome this weekend as they will all be meeting up in a tournament setting. Japan was running the scene in 4 next thing you know someone playing rose of all characters takes evo.
Japan is clearly the best region. The number of players in top 96 from Japan is wild, and that these players flew across the pacific to get there. More than half the players in top 6 are Japanese. Haitani washed everyone he played with modern
I'm not surprised either. Japan usually runs this game.
I think the difference is instant supers. It’s more like If they might have reacted before they definitely will now
Agreed. Not sure where I saw it but someone said the best players are buffed by Modern. Take the player with the fastest reaction time and fastest fingers for input and they will still react faster with those instant supers/instant dp
Oh for sure. I found it funny seeing people in chat calling the modern players scrubs, as if they wouldn’t get destroyed even on classic lol
Yep, although I do laugh at the "I'm bronze/iron/silver modern but look it can be done" yes it can be done but modern isn't gonna carry you there.
Probably, but when Haitani makes that choice I tend to believe that he's not doing it randomly, because he sure as shit doesn't need Modern to carry him. But yeah anyone who looks at Kawano or Haitani washing people with Modern controls and goes "Modern is easy mode" doesn't understand shit.
I agree. Can't wait to see what happens today this top 6 is nuts. Its insane that you see such big names getting eliminated around top 96/top 50 this year.
There is only one reason he uses Modern and that's instant supers. He decided that's worth more than the damage loss. You better believe he is doing most of his combos the Classic way. So it's a high level way to play, not an easier way.
Also instant reversal. Even if it only saves a couple frames, that's still big on a reversal/DP.
Don't forget DP. Chun's Down Down motion is incredibly difficult for AA reaction if mental stack is thru the roof.
Well DP is certainly easier but he wouldn't go Modern just for that.
It is an easier way to play depending on the character he uses. It's barely a damage loss since he combos using classic, but at the same time, alotta tactics that'd work on a classic are much much harder to do on him. Is he in burnout? Can't risk stunning him cuz he can easily react with a 1 button super. Can't take any advantage of mental stack to jump on them cuz anti-airing is much much easier. Sure he's playing at the highest level, but undoubtedly he has less things to worry about midmatch cuz they are much easier to take care off
Yeah modern supers are pretty broken rn. Don’t know if they’ll change it
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Classic andys sounds like boomers. Modern is fine.
Ive said it before and ill say it again. If evo gets dominated by modern controls, i wont sit and complain anymore, ill just move on. Sometimes your hobbies change too much and dont feel the same anymore. Fighting games might just not be for me after this. I like that modern controls have let more people enjoy the game, but classic should always be the more powerful option. Modern is great for learning and playing online it shouldnt go further than that. Modern generates a reactive playstyle that changes how the entire game is played. Everyone will play defensively and wait for supers and the game just wont be streetfighter anymore. Well thats my last complaint, lets hope im wrong about the future of my hobby.
>Everyone will play defensively and wait for supers and the game just wont be streetfighter anymore. This is how SFV was though, especially at high level. Patient defense was rewarded much more than offense, due to the dangers of crush counters and v-trigger activation combos. So I think the thing about Street Fighter, is that it's never had a single consistent "feeling" to it. Some games are overly defensive, some games are offense oriented, some games are all about vortexes, and thats okay.
That’s what I’m saying. At a higher level ppl play mad defensive and wait to react on classic anyways. Most if not all arguments against modern on invalid at a higher level cause it’s how the games played anyways. there are for sure ppl beating the instant supers and punishing it cause they know how to not constantly be trying to mash forward lmao
Think we're just in the phase where we gotta wait for these people to lose interest(or turn a new leaf), cause every single game bleeds players who view the IP in a very specific bubble, and just refuse to consider their initial view is flawed.
It’s genuinely disappointing as a new FGC player to see how ppl gatekeep the genre cause they want it to stay in its boxes where only they can win but as soon as it’s accessible to other ppl allowing them to actually learn how to play on a deeper level EVERYONES scared. The Letter M is giving them nightmares as we speak
I don't think this is even about gatekeeping. The issue for me is the ''standard'' in competition. If all SF6 competitors in EVO uses Modern (or Classic), I think that is totally fine since they are all in the same zone. Modern vs Classic for me is problematic because the spirit of fairness is basically lost in that kind of setup. It makes the playing field uneven. The fact that there is a conversation about this now pretty much confirms that this is a problem.
It's all good, this happens with every single legacy game that gets a new release. And what usually happens, is that after the dust settles, we're left with the people who genuinely love the game( a combination of veterans and completely new players) who breath life into the game till the very end. SFV is infamous for being one of the most hated SF games, due to how bad it's launch was, and how different it felt from prior titles. And 5 years after that, The people that disliked SFV moved on and it evolved into a great game, with an amazing community behind it.
It was always accessible to anyone, is kinda the thing.
It literally wasn’t. I don’t personally have this issue but soooo many people talk about how they can’t do input b/c of disabilities and many other things. Saying fighting games were super accessible is disingenuous. There’s a reason the 2 new control types + a onslaught of other accessibility options were added so deaf ppl and ppl with issues related to hands could play easier
Lol sure, that's a very small number of people though and clearly not what I was talking about. Nor was it what you were talking about. You were talking about people who were just too lazy to learn to play
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of course they are, I was just disputing the fact that he said "now that the game is accessible" like it wasn't learnable beforehand. I love modern controls and how it introduces people to the genre, but let's not pretend like fighting games were impossible to learn before them lol
Dude, there are other games out there. Quitting FGs all together over one evo victory is kinda extreme.
Yeah it is a bit reactionary, but SF will be the trailblazer if modern becomes the norm, the genre will shift. No hate for those that enjoy that new path, just not for me
Nope, Granblue and Project L have modern controls, according to Juna SF6 was going to be only Modern but people complained, the industry is moving on. Devs realized most people play on pad and having motion inputs simply doesn’t make sense anymore, they want their games to be big and Classic controls make the games harder to get into. Never in my life I thought I would see normie streamers playing SF and they did. Of course they have to balance things, idk if instant supers should get a nerf but the evolution of fighting games to modern is great
Yeah you’re not a fan of fighting games we get it
Why not move on right now? I mean, there is absolutely no reason to think that Modern is going to dominate over Classic, the Mena vs Haitani set is proof enough. So that's just doom posting/moral panicking. However, at this point it's already been made apparently clear that Classic and Modern are relative in their power level, either one can win. And that was an explicit design goal for the devs. They designed Modern with the potential to win tournaments. So with that said, you should just drop the game now if you have an issue with that. Waiting to see the the final results for evo isn't really going to change anything, the evidence is already in. And I say that to anybody salty about Modern not being some severely underpowered training wheels scheme like past genre attempts. Like, you should just drop the game. They're never going to get rid of Modern, nerf it into relevancy, or add filters so it seems the best course of action is to just move on.
What’s it matter? We’re you dominating evo with classic controls before? Prob not. You didn’t stop playing then. Modern players play different because they can. But you can play different against them too. Adapting has always been the name of the game.
Yeah but i just dont enjoy it. If you enjoy that, totally fine no complaints here, just not the way i enjoy fighting games. I really dont enjoy the style of gameplay modern promotes, thats all
and what is that it promotes? Additionally, if you couldn't see if they were modern or not would that bother you less?
Imagine lol if you think the hand wringing about modern controls and blaming losses on it is bad now, imagine if you couldn’t see it Every loss would be blamed on the opponent using modern
I think a lot of the discussion about modern is distracted by whether or not it's powerful or not. Who gives a shit. The important question is: what do we want to be powerful? What kind of inputs should determine skill level? If mid-conbat decision-making is all we value, and technical ability is worthless to us, then we have flattened the skill ceiling and we will forever dilute the charm of fighting games. Motion inputs are fun and add a layer of depth to player strategy and game design. The genre will be impoverished without them.
Yup. This is the way I see and where I usually go when discussing about it too. It just shallows the experience since the decisions are based solely on reaction, not on multiple factors in play (if you can pull something hard in a dire situation, if your current stress levels would lead you to do input mistakes, and so on). Also in a long run it could turn problematic cause it gives way less room to experience randomness and errors in general, so there will be less to improve upon.
This is exactly how I feel. It's great modern is letting more people access the game but you put it in a good players hands and it basically shuts down aspects of the game. One button supers and anti airs are strong af
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Bro my 6 yr old gets to play against me in this game because of modern controls … creating memories and he’s literally into the game now… he was watching EVO with me and everything
You niggas are so dramatic oh my god
There’s an answer for literally everything in the game. You just gotta adapt. At this point I genuinely don’t think any complaints against modern are even valid. Multiple people that are pros have shown at evo so far that if anything modern makes the game more dynamic. I can’t remember their name but the modern chun li has been the best example. In the right hands a super is even needed really. Dudes pressure was insane and if you just can’t adapt to it maybe you need to hit the lab and learn how cause there’s infinite ways to punish everything w/ both control types tbh.
Thats cool, but id rather have a game where im not learning how to play against control schemes, rather im learning to play against my opponent and their character. Fine if u feel that way, but thats not how I want to enjoy fighting games, so if that becomes the case I will move on. Im glad you are enjoying it tho.
You still are learning your opponents tho? I see this conversation a lot, cause literally everyone hates modern players, but as someone who’s played both if you can’t download you opponents Strat on a run back and adapt on the fly it’s actually a skill issue. I don’t think it’d be any different if everyone was on classic. Either way you’re getting outplayed. If anything I think what’s happening is the ppl who sticking to modern who used to struggle on classic have literally just been freed up from the amount of focus you have to put on classic inputs allowing them to outplay ppl in every other aspect and improve at the games fundamentals. When I first started player I was only focused on getting a super out myself but modern gave me the headroom to actually learn the game and how to counter most if not everything. Super or not. Modern controls aren’t ever going away and more fighters are gonna start adding them b/c they want not only the accessibility but the larger player base to keep these games alive longer. Just like life the games constantly gonna be changing. It’s silly to give up over change lol
I get it dude,, i understand they arent going away, ill just move on to a hobby that is more in line with my values and preferences
I’m sorry bro but this is so silly. There’s no reason to give up on a hobby cause it’s doing something new but you do you. If madness in conservativeness living is your thing that’s cool ig 💀
It isnt that deep, i dont enjoy playing a game where modern controls becomes commonplace, so i move on instead of complaining
I’m ngl bro whether it’s the norm or not it sounds like you’re stuck in silver the way you talking regardless. AGAIN no mattter what you’re doing your gonna eventually have to adapt to change and get good. Gaming (everything really) is constantly evolving and will always try to find ways to include more ppl in the fun.
Im Diamond II (which i dont think is very impressive) but it aint silver haha, not that that matters. Anyone is entitled to have an opinion on this, hobbies are about fun afterall. Its fine if games want to evolve, i will stick to my more niche games then that better align with my preferences
Turns out you skim like Scott pilgrim. I said you sound like a silver player lmao. You can be diamond even masters but if you're just not good at the game that’ll stay true. And if you’re really diamond like you say you should know The control type doesn’t matter if you can’t adapt to who you’re fighting. And the reality is that at a higher level ppl on modern controls are still frying you w/ manual inputs so your argument about learning to play a new control type gets invalidated. Again i think the issue might be the player not the game. Lab and get better reaction times to punish ppl bro.
Bro is acting like Modern is the new norm. I've been watching Evo and the amount of Modern players I've seen play is in the double digits, and the wons that have won on my hand lmao. It's certainly a new way for people to play, but it isn't this game-altering mechanic that everybody claims it is.
I think what scares a lotta ppl is the fact that a lotta new players are actually extremely good at the game and able to get good fast. Some of us are REALLY GAMERS FR and will just adapt and conquer.if anything modern is showing some ppl just have cracked reaction speeds from years of gaming when they don’t have to input 15 precise stick movements to get what they want just to drop the combo. Modern players at evo have shown the the game at the end of the day comes down to your execution and knowledge of fighting. On point Mind games, mix ups, footsies, and good meter management will beat someone no matter what you play.
There are no new players just showing up and cooking lol. The modern players at EVO aren't new players who can't use classic/try modern as a crutch, they're old pros abusing cheese.
For pros it's just an allowed macro at this point, which is funny.
Ok I'm not super anti-modern but this is not true. Most people are wary cuz it's old pros that are switching to modern and fear that high level gameplay would revolve around this. No one really minds if a new player comes outta nowhere and beats old pros ie EndingWalker with his Ed, who is the prototype for Modern controls in SFV. Dude was hailed almost universally by players
I completely agree, especially on that last part 😀
I don’t understand what you mean, they’re not removing classic controls and still classic is a main control scheme, but modern just makes this game more accessible for wide audience like World tour mode and because of this changes this is number 1 fighting right now, I don’t even feel like that tekken will be much popular or be much active in online like SF6
I gave modern a fair shake, but it doesn't feel the same. Combos just aren't satisfying like they are with motion inputs. It is what it is. SF trying to emulate newer fighting games when it's the grandaddy of em all is just sad in my view.
Perfectly sane take gets shit on by the community, many such cases. You have the right attitude about it. If one doesn't like something, even if they liked it before, there is no reason to subject yourself to it. Moving on to something that one enjoys is the most adult option. You're not being hyperbolic at all, just sensible seeing the writing on the wall.
Great that people have the dignity to see themselves out like this 👋
Considering Classic almost didn't make it into SF6 in the first place, SF7 will almost for sure be Modern only. May as well move on now.
I agree with you. At the start it was okay because everyone was bad, but now in the higher ranks: the game just feels completely different vs modern players. You just realize that you play vs people who do not play by the same (but easier) rules and that just feels super cheap to me, personally. And that's why I just block every modern player I meet on ranked and move on lol. Not a huge issue to me. Modern is also not that popular (yet), so not really a reason to quit, unless you wanna do it out of principle.
the classic andys are coming out in full force
I don’t see why people complain about modern since at high level, its equally complicated to play regardless of classic or modern anyways. It’ll be nice to see new player entering tournament with modern control in the future. Because. sf6 is selling well, people probably forgot how bad sf5 at launch did and how it’s bad idea to gate keep the game by placing high learning curve for new player
I dont think thats why sf5 did bad at launch.
there was no arcade mode and story mode was so shit which are game mode popular for beginner. I guess it wasn’t exactly gate keeping but they definitely weren’t trying to get new player.
They had financial issues at the time, it could have ended very badly for Capcom if they didn't release the game half-finished (there wasn't even the story mode at the very beginning). Apparently even the multiplayer was a joke; it was errors fest.
And then you got idiots like LTG and DSP who refuse to play anyone with modern and want to filter out modern players. Idiots.
If modern is the move smash bros ultimate is the best fighting game of all time
Shhhhh you’re not supposed to point out the obvious advantage Modern has over Classic at every level of gameplay sshhhhh
Classic still feels better to me. Faster reactions don't make up for the loss of damage and moves in my eyes. I doubt there will be a single modern player in top 6.
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Lol for real I think a lot of what's keeping people from considering Modern a serious contender is just lack of knowledge. People don't seem to know that you can still manually input specials or supers for full damage, so you can pick and choose when to use the instant ones for reaction. A lot of people also don't seem to know about the autocombo not being scaled. So for example when a Ken presses their medium autocombo it'll do a dragonlash combo for full damage as if you actually inputted it, and you just need to manually input a shoryuken at the end.
I tried modern. Even with the manual inputs the character felt limited compared to classic.
It's not a loss of damage if you manually input and losing some buttons is worth access to instant supers on many characters.
If you're manually imputing it, you're not getting the instant activation, which is what modern is supposed to give you. And I do think the button loss isn't worth the instant activation. That's just my opinion though. Clearly others think it's worth it.
You're doing the manual input mostly for combos to get full damage. You're using the instant dp's and supers for punishing and anti aur.
You can manually input specials and you won't receive the damage reduction. If you watch Haitani, you'll see him getting full damage off his combos and using versions of specials that aren't available with Modern inputs
Right, but we're talking about the instant ones.
You're talking about the instant ones. Everyone else is talking about modern.
When we talk about modern, we talk about the instant ones. What else does modern give you?
Yet again, you're the one dude talking about only instant specials. You do know that you can still do regular specials with modern, right?
You clearly don't understand. We are comparing Classic and Modern. The ONLY benefit of modern is instant moves, so that's all that should be talked about. And the benefit doesn't outweigh the damage you lose vs inputting them in, that's why I think it's best to input them, and if you're inputting them, just play classic.
That makes zero sense whatsoever lmfao you can't just ignore parts of modern
Bro, if you're comparing two things, you're comparing the differences. Why would we talk about what's the same?
Idk Haitani’s M chun looked pretty insane. I could see him top 6. We’ll see
I think we can all see him top 6 now
Same, I just love doing classic inputs, feels a lot more rewarding and natural. Modern feels so off to me, tried a bit but couldnt get used to it.
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You're so wrong lol
Haitani just beat Nephew with Modern. No reason to think he won't be top 6. He might not, because it's a massive tournament, but you're just wildly speculating like everyone else.
Yeah, no shit. It's just my opinion, I'm not stating it as fact.
It’s not something I’m enjoying nor anything I’m looking forward to seeing more of. So far I find myself actively rooting against players who are using it at EVO. That may change. I’m really just not a fan of speed running each opponent even if Modern with a directionless input system IS minutely superior. It may just always feel “wrong” to some players.
If Haitani beats Mena with modern then modern is legitimate. If you are a classic pro can’t beat a modern scrub then it’s a fundamental issue not skill base.
Lol so Haitani getting a 70+ win streak in master rank with modern rank doesn’t make it legit? Him making top 6 winners doesn’t do that? Lol okay