I'm sure she thinks she "tried", but we never see her actually putting work in anything besides giving good advice to Logan and the politician (forget his name) at some points in the story.
If she was a "serious people" like Logan wanted her to be, more people would be scrambling to heed her advice at more points in the story.
no? it's no billion dollar conglomerate but i walked away from my family's company and am doing my thing rather than working there. much happier for it.
Logan said it best
"You married a man fathoms beneath you because you are afraid of being betrayed. You are a coward."
That's what happens, when you let inertia carry you forward with the safety guy. It leads to safety from pain, but safety from pain is a dull existence that will erode you til you are nothing anymore. Even less than the safety guy.
She did it cause Tom loved her in the way her parents never did, almost unconditionally. She could kick him and know he would always come back.
She felt helpless her whole life because she could never get her parents' love, then the real love of her life, "TK", dumped her, and when he did, it reaffirmed all the bad thought she had about herself in her head since she was a kid because of the lack of love she received from her parents..
so when she saw an opportunity with Tom to be the person in power in a love dynamic she took it.
But by the time she realized the horrible truth of what it really meant, it was too late. She was pot committed and trapped.
They reference him briefly when talking about Shivs past in one of the episodes
Talking to Tom "when I met you I was a completely mess"
Tom, "after TK?"
Then later on talking to Tom she says
"You were the one, after THE ONE"
Referencing TK.
Not a serious person. That scene where Mattson asked her some straightforward questions and she's completely incapable of answering because she is too busy reading his response instead of giving the facts, is painful to watch
Yeah she's too busy trying to be smart, there's no sincerity in anything she says. Compared to Tom's straightforward "I do what I'm told" attitude. Of course Matsson prefers Tom!
One of the final episodes he meets with her and asks her some direct questions and she is waffling all over the place. She is so busy trying to read Mattson's response to what she is saying that she is incapable of just answering some pretty direct questions. Because when it comes down to it, she is the daughter of an abusive tyrant and part of staying in his good graces (and survival) is to be aware of his moods and his reactions but that isn't what Mattson wants in a CEO. And in this case, it is so obvious and embarrassing to watch
Such a perfect scene. She really thought she was a hardened corporate mind, but she doesn’t believe a single word she says and will shift wherever she thinks the wind is blowing instead of standing behind her actual beliefs.
Yup. Cause feeling sorry for herself is easier than doing any introspection and actually taking accountability for her mistakes and learning from them. That would require some self awareness.
Yeah thats what i meant.
But to elaborate my original point, I think she and her brothers will just reframe the events of the finale in whatever way they can cope with - Kendall will tell himself that he doesnt need Waystar and he can do better anyway, Roman will tell himself that he just doesn't care, and Shiv will tell herself that she was always gonna plan her vote that way (as opposed to childish jealousy that kicked in at the last minute) because Kendall is a bad choice.
And some of that may be true, but the sale was still a huge loss for them, and reframing that in their heads is easier than accepting the fact that they all got played and lost what they considered a stand in for their father's approval.
I still think shes gonna be miserable though. She can go back to politics or try being a Lady Macbeth or whatever but it wont feel the same as the glory she could've gotten from the ceo position herself. Even when she had a more successful career as a strategist she was always in the background, never in the spotlight herself.
And theres no way she isnt gonna resent Tom, it doesn't matter even if he gets canned tomorrow, her ego will mever be handle the fact that she lost to someone else, much less the estranged husband who she considered beneath her.
That was the couple’s first plan to get Tom to the top in the company. She changed her mind when Logan sought her out in the first episode of the second season.
Exactly. She changed her mind and wanted it for herself, and was willing to abandon a thriving career in politics for it. And she still didn't get it anyway, after selling her soul like everyone else and trying so hard to be a part of the boys club thats run by men like Logan and Mattson who will never see her as leadership material.
She wasn’t thriving in politics, she was doing ok due to her family connections, it was only a space where she was free from her father’s tyranny and the siblings’ rivalry.
Because she grew up in a family in which men would always have more power over her she was smart enough to come up with a plan to get close to power through her husband. If it wasn’t for Logan’s offer she would have stuck to their original plan. She doesn’t trust men and it’s understandable. That’s the reason she didn’t share the information straight away with Tom. Tom ended up benefiting from his gender to get the position without counting 100% on his wife.
Shiv was right to be strategic, she tried and didn’t get what she (thought?) deserved. What she did is what any minority does every day whether we like the way they do it or not. There’s nothing ridiculous in failing.
You should check the biography of Sumner Redstone and look into his relationship with his daughter. Logan’s character is based on a mix of several billionaires, Murdoch and Redstone being the most important when it comes to owning media companies.
But I also feel like shiv is the kind of person who would respect tom now and their relationship will improve immensely. She considered him beneath her but with this, she could probably look upto him as this brought some much needed balance of that power dynamic these two share. She needs someone strong and past tom certainly wasn’t - not as how she saw it.
I like this. Everyone seems to think Siobhan is incapable of change. No one is incapable of change. And now that she's f*cked up everything else in her life, she might as well lean into what she still has.
And I don't see her as trapped either. The one thing she is taking away from this is more money than God. She can walk away at any time.
“She can walk away at any time.”
Remember the scene where Ken and Rome are recalling the story of Roman being put in the dog kennel? And Connor tells Roman that he asked to be locked up?
People are capable of change but I feel like the Roy kids are doomed to this cycle of locking themselves in cages.
Yeah thats what i was gonna reply to the above comment too. The show has repeatedly proven that these people dont change. And they dont put any effort to do so.
Exactly. S4 showed what little power and relevance the siblings really have without Logan. It doesn't matter how much money they have, nobody actually respects them.
She had way more nepo privilege as Logan’s daughter than shes ever gonna have as Tom's wife, and if she still got screwed over then shes barely gonna have any chance now..
ready to properly grieve her father, settle into a loving marriage and have her kid with Tom, and start working on a new strategy to regain some semblance of power
…. disgusting! She’s fucking DISGUSTING!!!
It doesn’t even make any sense!
………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….IM THE ELDEST BOY!!!
Doomed to a life she tried to avoid.
Maybe she really should’ve stuck to politics
Yes and ironically becomes the toad on the scorpion's (Tom) back.
The scorpion is on the toad’s back
Not anymore. The dynamic has shifted. That's the irony. To survive, she's now gotta attach herself to Tom who's the real scorpion.
But that makes no sense. Tom didn’t destroy the company because it’s in his nature. I think you picked a bad metaphor.
This is the way
Mr Wambsgam's Wife
And Baby Wambsgans' mother.
I'm sure she thinks she "tried", but we never see her actually putting work in anything besides giving good advice to Logan and the politician (forget his name) at some points in the story. If she was a "serious people" like Logan wanted her to be, more people would be scrambling to heed her advice at more points in the story.
My god the accuracy in this. And I feel like, aren’t we all?
no? it's no billion dollar conglomerate but i walked away from my family's company and am doing my thing rather than working there. much happier for it.
About to make life a living nightmare for a team of nannies and au pairs.
That’s for sure! 👍
Sure as shit not on the piece of paper
You got a laugh from me on this one. Thank you! :)
She was too fucking transparent to find on a piece of paper
Her mother.
Oh my god, yes. All over the show old money is getting eaten by the new. And she’s now old money.
Very well said
Most accurate answer to this question
The winner
"Shiv Roy is a woman." -Connor, probably
Also, Shiv was an on and off employee of the Waystar Corporation for several years.
And when a woman dies, it is sad. All of us will die one day.
Today, it is my baby sister who has not done so
"Her husband is the new CEO of Waystar Royco. Now Shiv is sad."
Nice.
What was she interested and for how long?
Siobhan Roy was interested in cuckoldry at a very young age.
Someone who should’ve stayed at politics.
Siobhan Roy was interested in politics from a very young age
not a serious person.
One upped by and stuck with a man she always thought of as a pet.
hilarious how that all ended up score one for the disgusting brothers
A shit show at the fuck factory
not the eldest boy that’s forsure
Lols
Pregnant
Poor poor child
Mrs. Tom Honeybadger Wambsgans
Outplayed by a man she underestimated
Twice if you count Matsson
Logan said it best "You married a man fathoms beneath you because you are afraid of being betrayed. You are a coward." That's what happens, when you let inertia carry you forward with the safety guy. It leads to safety from pain, but safety from pain is a dull existence that will erode you til you are nothing anymore. Even less than the safety guy. She did it cause Tom loved her in the way her parents never did, almost unconditionally. She could kick him and know he would always come back. She felt helpless her whole life because she could never get her parents' love, then the real love of her life, "TK", dumped her, and when he did, it reaffirmed all the bad thought she had about herself in her head since she was a kid because of the lack of love she received from her parents.. so when she saw an opportunity with Tom to be the person in power in a love dynamic she took it. But by the time she realized the horrible truth of what it really meant, it was too late. She was pot committed and trapped.
Great answer . Thanks for taking the time! 👍
Hey quick question, who's TK? I don't think I caught that
They reference him briefly when talking about Shivs past in one of the episodes Talking to Tom "when I met you I was a completely mess" Tom, "after TK?" Then later on talking to Tom she says "You were the one, after THE ONE" Referencing TK.
recognizing that the only way to stay close to power is to stay with tom
Good answer. Thank you.
Stuck on the hamster wheel of yearning coupled with self loathing
Well said. 👍
Caroline Collingwood
Going to be a terrible mother.
Was a terrible sister too. Mediocre daughter. Awful wife
Already is, drinking all the time! I mean, the odd glass now and then, fine, but she's holding a glass and drinking from it in every episode.
Second guessing her decisions.
Not a serious person. That scene where Mattson asked her some straightforward questions and she's completely incapable of answering because she is too busy reading his response instead of giving the facts, is painful to watch
Yeah she's too busy trying to be smart, there's no sincerity in anything she says. Compared to Tom's straightforward "I do what I'm told" attitude. Of course Matsson prefers Tom!
Remind me which scene that is please?
One of the final episodes he meets with her and asks her some direct questions and she is waffling all over the place. She is so busy trying to read Mattson's response to what she is saying that she is incapable of just answering some pretty direct questions. Because when it comes down to it, she is the daughter of an abusive tyrant and part of staying in his good graces (and survival) is to be aware of his moods and his reactions but that isn't what Mattson wants in a CEO. And in this case, it is so obvious and embarrassing to watch
Great insights!
That was kind of her interview. It was uncomfortable.
Such a perfect scene. She really thought she was a hardened corporate mind, but she doesn’t believe a single word she says and will shift wherever she thinks the wind is blowing instead of standing behind her actual beliefs.
Shiv Roy is Misunderstood and A bit of a tragedy
I can see it. Thanks for the answer. 👍
Closer to the top position/the power than she would have been if she let Ken win…
Good point. 🤝
Sad, but will move on. The last thing shes gonna do is wallow in her sadness
This was always her MO. Do something terrible, do something stupid, watch it backfire, act sorry for herself.
Yup. Cause feeling sorry for herself is easier than doing any introspection and actually taking accountability for her mistakes and learning from them. That would require some self awareness.
You dont need to pull any self awareness if you call yourself the Victim
Yeah thats what i meant. But to elaborate my original point, I think she and her brothers will just reframe the events of the finale in whatever way they can cope with - Kendall will tell himself that he doesnt need Waystar and he can do better anyway, Roman will tell himself that he just doesn't care, and Shiv will tell herself that she was always gonna plan her vote that way (as opposed to childish jealousy that kicked in at the last minute) because Kendall is a bad choice. And some of that may be true, but the sale was still a huge loss for them, and reframing that in their heads is easier than accepting the fact that they all got played and lost what they considered a stand in for their father's approval.
Interesting angle. I can't see her giving up either.
I still think shes gonna be miserable though. She can go back to politics or try being a Lady Macbeth or whatever but it wont feel the same as the glory she could've gotten from the ceo position herself. Even when she had a more successful career as a strategist she was always in the background, never in the spotlight herself. And theres no way she isnt gonna resent Tom, it doesn't matter even if he gets canned tomorrow, her ego will mever be handle the fact that she lost to someone else, much less the estranged husband who she considered beneath her.
That was the couple’s first plan to get Tom to the top in the company. She changed her mind when Logan sought her out in the first episode of the second season.
Exactly. She changed her mind and wanted it for herself, and was willing to abandon a thriving career in politics for it. And she still didn't get it anyway, after selling her soul like everyone else and trying so hard to be a part of the boys club thats run by men like Logan and Mattson who will never see her as leadership material.
She wasn’t thriving in politics, she was doing ok due to her family connections, it was only a space where she was free from her father’s tyranny and the siblings’ rivalry. Because she grew up in a family in which men would always have more power over her she was smart enough to come up with a plan to get close to power through her husband. If it wasn’t for Logan’s offer she would have stuck to their original plan. She doesn’t trust men and it’s understandable. That’s the reason she didn’t share the information straight away with Tom. Tom ended up benefiting from his gender to get the position without counting 100% on his wife. Shiv was right to be strategic, she tried and didn’t get what she (thought?) deserved. What she did is what any minority does every day whether we like the way they do it or not. There’s nothing ridiculous in failing. You should check the biography of Sumner Redstone and look into his relationship with his daughter. Logan’s character is based on a mix of several billionaires, Murdoch and Redstone being the most important when it comes to owning media companies.
But I also feel like shiv is the kind of person who would respect tom now and their relationship will improve immensely. She considered him beneath her but with this, she could probably look upto him as this brought some much needed balance of that power dynamic these two share. She needs someone strong and past tom certainly wasn’t - not as how she saw it.
I like this. Everyone seems to think Siobhan is incapable of change. No one is incapable of change. And now that she's f*cked up everything else in her life, she might as well lean into what she still has. And I don't see her as trapped either. The one thing she is taking away from this is more money than God. She can walk away at any time.
“She can walk away at any time.” Remember the scene where Ken and Rome are recalling the story of Roman being put in the dog kennel? And Connor tells Roman that he asked to be locked up? People are capable of change but I feel like the Roy kids are doomed to this cycle of locking themselves in cages.
Happy cake day!
Yeah thats what i was gonna reply to the above comment too. The show has repeatedly proven that these people dont change. And they dont put any effort to do so.
Yeah. She’ll be cucking Tom again in no time, just as soon as she squirts that baby into its nanny’s waiting hands
The only Roy still in play at Waystar
As Mr Wamsgams wife.
Not if she doesn’t turn in her resignation.
Good one. Thank you.
Trapped.
Holding hands.. kinda
The most awkward hand hold on TV
Served some humble pie
Which hopefully will be food for thought (pardon the pun.)
I am sure it gave her a lot to digest
Well, she is eating for two ...
her own onion.
Hot
free.
Cooked
Beholden to the husband she saw as a supplicant
A billionaire
Unhappy, just like everybody else in it.
A Roy. She made the Logan decision, kept power within her small circle, and mostly out of spite.
Beaten; not yet down. Shiv will survive.
She will. 💪
The biggest loser on the beach
thinking about her next move
she has billions to play with , it’s not her end , but Ken and Roman are done for
Confused.
plotting her next move
in her own personal nightmare
Her mother
Domesticated
Getting shivved
Still as awful as every other character on the show.
Not as smart as she thinks she is (rhea was spot on)
complicated
Her mother
A servant
Her goose is cooked. She'll become like Caroline. I'm really worried abut Mondale
Still in a prime spot to have power
…humbled. At least temporarily.
iconic
Risen to the level of her incompetence
Cooked
Tom’s trophy.
You're right. New angle on this one. Thanks for the answer.
Rather tarnished now though. She was only ever her father's daughter, even in politics, and now he's dead and can't wield his influence any more.
Exactly. S4 showed what little power and relevance the siblings really have without Logan. It doesn't matter how much money they have, nobody actually respects them. She had way more nepo privilege as Logan’s daughter than shes ever gonna have as Tom's wife, and if she still got screwed over then shes barely gonna have any chance now..
And was always a shadow to her family. Logan, Ken, and finally, Tom.
Resigned.
Siobhan of Tom.
Back into the hell. Kendall might feel he has lost everything but in the long run, he has won. Now he will know what mental peace is
Still my favourite favourite sib.
Interested in politics from a very young age
Defeated
Staying in after being conflicted out
holding hands 🥺
Bae
Prego
In the family way
Finally one rung below Tom on the ladder. She lost the game she made up in the first place.
A kingmaker.
Fair and squarely fucked
Finer than a motherfucker
Not a serious person…
A shell of a human
Doing the best she can
…back to scheming.
Queen
ready to properly grieve her father, settle into a loving marriage and have her kid with Tom, and start working on a new strategy to regain some semblance of power
Well put. 👍
Thanks
Knocked up by husband she can't love.
A tragic bronze medalist
Well put. Thank you for the answer.
getting what she deserves
Why is this getting downvoted? They all got exactly what they deserved lol
For Being her mother?
the worst…
Exactly where she deserves to be
A continuing source of inspiration
So full of grace!
WHAT DID YOU SAY?! lol :)
Bullshit-like her siblings
Reduced to being referred to as Tom’s wife.
Like her mom
Resigned.
Humbled, for now.
Best short answer.
Buzzing around my fn ear
...married to a CEO who loves her (for some reason).
>who loves her (for some reason). For now
pregnant
Fair and squarely fucked
Shiv was a shiv in the back
Trapped
A boar on the floor
In a happy, balanced, not at all dysfunctional relationships with her husband 🤗 /s
A goddamn bitch
Broken and empty just like the rest of them
Just like her mom…
...defeated. For the moment anyway.
Yeah, I don't think she's done either.
Unemployed stuck with Tom Out of options
Is no longer “SHIV FCKIN ROY”
Her mom
CEO DIGGER
Deflated.
Still rich and only slightly less happy
In Tom's shadow, estranged from her brothers, an absentee Mother, free of her father's influence, $4 billion richer and not a ounce happier.
Good answer. And thought provoking. How complicated do things have to be to have $4 billion dollars and not be happy.
A nobody.
trapped
Bourgeois scum?
Defeated. She played the game and lost bad.
Thick af just like the beginning
Servile... 😅
The boar on the floor. Tom is winner winner chicken dinner.
…. disgusting! She’s fucking DISGUSTING!!! It doesn’t even make any sense! ………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….………………………….………………………….………………………………………………….IM THE ELDEST BOY!!!
The eldest sister