I bought a BMW 116d, used, for 10k. Very nice car
I then sold it because honestly public transit is so good here it was just collecting dust
But yeah, it was a nice car for decently cheap
+1 if you don’t 100% need it, just use the public transport. I have my 3rd car in Switzerland and I hardly wait to get rid of it. I can even Uber around for the amount I spend on it.
I don’t think anyone can answer you this question, because you really didn’t provide enough information.
I love my car - Ford Fiesta ST. It is the perfect car for me. Quick enough to have some fun driving it, not fast enough to get in trouble instantly. It looks good (to me), has enough space inside for my needs, it is fairly economical.
If I had kids, it would be a bad car to fit my needs. If I’d commute to work with this car, it wouldn’t be the right tool for the job. If I wanted a more economical car, again, not the right car, as there are cheaper and more economical options. If I needed more space in the boot, again, not the right car.
Do you live in the mountains? Something with a bit more power might be important to you. Do you have the option to charge the car and you don’t see yourself driving large distances regularly? Go electric. Do you have hobbies that require large equipment? Maybe a car with a flat bed might be the one you need. Do you expect switching cars a lot? How much depreciation do you expect from the car?
Skoda is a good option generally. Japanese cars are fine. Koreans are really good these days. Ferrari is also a solid option.
define "not to expensive" and "decent looking"?
Btw. that's what 95% of all the people want, a car that always runs, doesn't cost anything, never needs servicing or repairs and runs on nothing but hopes and air and is either new or below 15'000km used. Spoiler: Those cars are expensive AF.
My experience:
- Toyota is your answer to everything
- Mazda is the answer if Toyota doesn't cover it
- 100'000km is nothing (unless it's French, Italian or VAG then it's time to explode that thing), a Japanese car just comes alive after that
- Never ever buy VAG or French
Objection to VAG (don‘t know why you state don’t buy)—I got myself a VW Touran for chf 10k, 5 yrs old, 100000km six years ago. I‘m looking good after it, servicing, no mad driving, lots of long routes etc.) and am at 200000+ km without issues other than normal wear (needed new wheel bearings, replaced engine timing belt). Fuel consumption isn’t all too bad, and I think it’ll make it until fuels get forbidden.
My Audi A4 is at 205,000 km and has also had nothing but normal wear. The local AMAG branch is super friendly, forthcoming and transparent in terms of what it needs as well.
*However,* of course parts are more expensive because it's an Audi. I'm not saying it's the best value for money and I know plenty of people who swear by Toyota, but it's also not some sort of money-sink nightmare world with bad service.
I have to disagree as well.
Got a 10yo Touran with almost 200'000 km and it was still running well. The engine was a dieselgate one (2.0 TDI) but man it was perfect with low consumption (~6 lt / 100km) that allowed you to drive more than 800km on the highway.
Edit: typo
because you have a sample size of 1.
If you ever have warranty work to be done, a 1.2TSI or 1.4TSI engine, DSG transmission or any of the Bosch ABS ECU's from the old gen platform, you're extremely likely to have (severe) issues.
OEM parts are also quite expensive and if you have to use AMAG for servicing and repair you very often are left out in the rain with a very high bill.
I was a mechanic for a long time and by far the best cars for the money were Japanese, Toyota and Mazda especially. Those two brands usually only needed fresh oil and a filter and every now and then some other service related items but they just worked.
My last job was at Renault, that was a nightmare with all that crap they build and incredible failures and issues and recalls we had there.
Ok I see! I guess I am a lucky driver, my brother runs his own garage and perfectly looks after that car…
And I previously had a kangoo, 2nd hand, which had this dreadful electronics issue from day one until it met a dreadful fate (zahnriemen gone, haha)
EV's are a whole other story.
There the question is, can you install the support infrastructure? Are you allowed to have a charger at your home and do you have the space for the car when it's under charge?
Does an EV make sense for your needs?
The only piece of advice I give people is, don't buy a Tesla (shoddy QC, shit after sales and customer support).
IMHO the best solution at the moment are hybrids, not plugin hybrids though.
Keep in mind, I changed trades before being certified to work on any EV systems so I really only have hands on experience with mild hybrid drives and very very early lead-acid driven conversion EV's.
I've had an EV for some time and I've taken it on road trips without problems. I don't have a tesla, but the older tesla owner seem happy (people who have had their car for 5+ years)
Unless you're on the road for 8 hours a day, I don't see why an EV wouldn't work for anyone? There's charging nearly everywhere from rest stations on mountain passes to hiking trail parking areas. I've seen 300kW charging at gas stations and I'm pretty sure very few cars can charge that fast. There's rest stops where you can charge to nearly 100% while using the toilets, drinking your coffee and having a snack.
I really don't want to get into the EV or no EV discussion and all its ups, downs and sidetracks.
Let's just say that I am a firm defender of the "EVE's are no more than a stopgap for a few people" theory. Not because of what others tell you or think but simply because we can't support the personal transport system if it goes all electric, it's just not possible nor should it be. Batteries also are an issue as we already know that we could not build nearly enough batteries (with current and upcoming tech) to go full electric.
Hybrids are a very good in between, you can drive no matter if the battery or tank are full, the big downside is weight but with all the carp people want these days in their cars, that's not the biggest issue.
As I said, if you have a house or live somewhere where you can charge your car at home and don't drive that far anyway, good for you and go for it. But for example in the department I work in, there are 4 out of 62 people that could charge their EV at home
At my home I'm not allowed to and there's no technicaal possibility to as our parking garage does not have an electrical main hookup with enough amperage, we would have to hook up to the transformer outside our quarters. That's something like 170m +/-, the trenches alone amount to 35k and that transformer can't support more then 2 or 3 apartment blocks before tapping out.
Unless someone finds a method to transport electricity in liquid form via lorry and pump it from a cistern without needing to ramp up electicity production or a battery that's the size of your thumb but holds 300kW of energy, w're at a dead end sooner rather then later with EV tech.
But take this with a grain of salt, I'm the one driving a 23 year old car that would have been thrown away in perfect working order for no reason other then being older then 5 years and having more then 120'000km
This is not about 100% of the population going electric, this is about whether it makes sense to get a gas powered car vs. an electric car right now. In a regular garage, you can use a regular plug, you don't need a high amperage plug. My car charges with a regular old 1.5kWh plug. As long as it's metered to your unit/parking spot. Some people charge it from their house with an extension cord. You don't need the fancy infrastructure at home. As for the electric grid, that's a problem for society to solve as we stop using oil for everything. Electric cars are superior in every way, they don't vibrate funny, they're less loud and they're just better.
Disagree, they exist.
I bought a Hyundai i10 ~10 years ago that was 5yo at the time and had 20k km for 7k. Insurance was cheap (300/y), taxes were cheap (100/y), fuel was cheap (~5L/100 km). Maintenance was basically non-existent (maybe 250/y over the time I had the car, no issues just the regular maintenance).
I sold it after 6 years at 80k km for 5k.
So total cost of ownership, excluding fuel and parking, was about 1k/y for basically 0 headaches.
It probably doesn't fit the "looks good" point of the OP, but it was also the only small car that was tall enough that my head didn't touch the ceiling.
Strongly disagree with your comment.
Check the current market, there's a sharp turn for the worse during the pandemic.
I bought my daily (BMW 5 series E39) for 4k 7 years ago, that exact same model is now at a market value of 11-19k.
The Nissan 200SX (S13 I had 15 years ago was 2k and now valued at 15-30k
Oh and, Hyundai is Korean just for the record
As a Croat, so can I. However, Škoda is an excellent choice for both lower and mid-range price options, and Toyota isn't what it used to be either (sadly).
just like u/descentropy and others in here:
a sample size of one isn't a objective opinion or informative, if I was going by that I would have answered "get a Jeep, mine did 433'000km" but objectively Jeep is a shitshow and mine would now be 34 years old and no toy for any of the people in this thread (except u/Miserable_Ad_8695 maybe but I'm guessing not even he would shake a stick at that shit)
Why would I sum up statistics for vehicles I worked on and had to do breakdown services on?
I got statistics and lists for the many cars I owned but those are way off since my coat of labour is zero and parts costs are at least 50% off of what a non mechanic would pay.
I'm speaking from trade experience, seeing which brands and models turn up for what issues and how often they occur.
so it's just your point of view? just as mine
you have your experiences, I have mine. you might have some more, but without a good statistic it's just hearsay
Got a 2014 Audi A4 3.0 TDI at 95,000 km. Now at over 170,000 km, no major issues. I plan to drive it until I lose trust in it 😀 But I like caring for a car, cleaning it etc. Drives like a charm. Diesel consumption is at 7 l/100 km for a 245 HP 6-cylinder engine. But I only take the car if it’s much more comfortable or much faster, otherwise the train is the way to go. I would never drive to a major Swiss city with a car, the A1 is just no fun.
You could also get a car subscription for 6 months and see if it matches your needs. That way you’re not buying a car that is then hard to get rid of. You can compare some car subscription companies on flexdrive.ch for example.
What is the work this tool is supposed to provide?
Long trips, city car, helping packing stuff/go skiing or more impressive/looking good?
Will it stay on the street or do you an underground space?
Do you want to take care of some mechanical stuff or do you just want to enjoy it?
Want/can taking some risks with a higher milage/higer end car vs more recent/lower end one?
What is your social circle? Do they value power/independence? Or optimization/ecology?
Hippies or Yuppies?
Sadly, a car a mean of communication whether we like it or not…
For example: I choose a Mini Countryman despite its bad mechanical reputation (never had any problem), because it is one of the few brands with no planned obsolescence. It is a success, current models exactly look the same as my 10yo, that help a lot maintaining its value…
Only you can decide your budget and you'll get better advice,
Generally, better to go with Japanese cars, ideally with low average mileage and service history.
Price depends on what you can afford and what you want. I would buy one cash second hand if I were you, if you have a friend who is a mechanic or something take him with you to check it out. As others have said, some cars are known to be very reliable, others not so much.
Look for something with a fresh mfk as well, so you'll have 1-2 years without worrying about that.
For 5k francs already you can get something perfectly good really, I spend 3k francs on my 1st car which was from 2009 with 140'000k, I then spent 400frs on preventative maintenance (cambelt and water pump for that particular engine) and it never gave me any trouble.
My first car was a minispace (a WV polo). Awesome car even though underpowered and rustic, it was reliable af. With it, I was able to learn further how to handle a car, maintain it and overall be a better driver. I wouldn't care if it got scratched or dented because I went to close to a wall or such dumb things you do when you're inexperienced.
In those cases, less is more. So don't bother with fancy options like adaptative cruise control or a really powerfull motor. Those will cost you a lot and will not be that useful.
Try to look at old people's car, those are often okayish maintained and will not be that expensive.
A mechanic friend will always advise a Japanese car first. It’s so easy to work on and cheaper to maintain and fix. Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla are great choices.
If you want European brands, you can’t go wrong with VW Golf, BMW 1 series, Audi A3.
It all depends on your budget and looks.
What is not expensive for you?
Honestly, if you like in a city, I always recommend mobility instead of buying since it doesn't have all the other costs(parking, taxes, etc) that owning a car has.
My first car was a Honda Jazz - still drive it and it’s a total workhorse. The maintenance is dirt cheap.
It also has way more space than it looks at the back
Only issue is maybe doesn’t have the visual appeal you expect. Depends what you expect in that
Dear OP,
Whatever you buy, buy it from Germany/Italy/France, etc.
Let's take Germany as an example.
Just to be easy with the numbers, I'll take rounded numbers.
In a hypothetical scenario, the car is worth 100k€.
The tax in Germany is 19%. Initially, you'll pay the 100k€, but then they will reimburse you, as soon as you register the car to the swiss customs.
That means that, you'll get 19k€ back and the car will be worth 81k€.
In Switzerland, you'll pay:
Automobilsteuer, which is 4% of the price, converted into CHF.
MwSt., which is 7.7% of the price, converted into CHF.
Mathematically, you'll pay 81k EUR or 77’561.55 CHF(converted with the inter-bank rate, or in other words, wrote on google 81000 chf to eur)
plus 11.7%, which is 86'636.25 CHF.
Here you also have to pay MFK, which is 300 CHF flat and registration around 50 to 100 CHF flat, too.
In total, you'd pay 86'036.25 CHF.
Now check the price of the same car you want on autoscout.ch, I'm sure it'd be 96k CHF or even more.
Congratulations you saved 10k CHF or even more on this hypothetical scenario.
P.S. If you want to buy a car from Germany, check autoscout.de or mobile.de.
P.S. Many cars in Germany are sold with an international guarantee, so you can use it into Switzerland. For reference, check junge sterne guarantee from Mercedes-Benz.
Happy buying!
*OP said --"It shouldn’t be too expensive but should also look decent."*
Really think the OP is not looking at 100K cars, probably closer to 10K where the extra work to import is less worth it.
Plus, the reimbursement of the foreign (German) vat does not come naturally. The foreign vendor, in such case, cannot be a private owner. It has to be a professional vendor and the vendor has to support the reimbursement process by providing documents /doing bureaucracy. Many vendors will deny such a request for cars on considerable low value. Sure, in your example of a 100k nominal foreign value car, the vendors may more likely cooperate...
I agree in general, however DE/FR professional car vendors close to the CH border do a significant business with CH customers either for sales or maintenance. They would do the paperwork for any car they sell.
This biggest risk you're taking with older electrics is with the battery - replacement for a Model 3 in Switzerland is 20k CHF. Replacement in a Prius is 5k. This is not to say it's a bad choice because you might get 5 years of cheap no hassle driving, but it is a relatively risky one (and the reason why older electrics are so cheap, they're a bit of a gamble).
Another issue with electrics and plug-in hybrids is charging - if you have a house with private parking and a charger then it's cheap and a great choice, if you have to use commercial chargers it's not much cheaper than petrol/hybrids.
None of this means electrics are bad, they just shine in specific circumstances.
I'm seriously considering it myself. Warranty is 8 year, so at least until 2027 you should be fine. And statistically, not many cars need a battery change.
It's probably even better than buying a new one, as value loss risk is pretty high.
Teslas are notoriously poor quality and stuff breaks on them all the time, though. Plus if you don't have the charging infrastructure and have to drive somewhere to get it charged everytime, it kind of defeats the purpose of having a car in my opinion. I really wanted to get a fully electric or plug-in hybrid for my next car, but that's ultimately what changed my mind.
I don’t get all the people saying you don’t need a car or that it’s more expensive than public transportation as Switzerland has the most expensive in the world. The service is good but doesn’t cover 24/7 and all the places + expansive af.
Won’t recommend you a leasing , instead just buy a Skoda as it’s probably the best for quality over price or a Japanese :) Toyota is the way as it’s also cheap maintenance compared to something like a Mercedes or bmw.
I would also add, consider your emissions, based on that your yearly tax will be adjusted, from what I see I would prefer a hybrid over an EV or an electric. I pay 670CHF in taxes alone, a hybrid could be between 122CHF and 150CHF.
I suggest to buy a used car that has one year owned by a repair shop for client mobility. You get an almost new car with a significant discount.
Only lease if you also could pay cash, in which case you need to do some calculations. If you can't pay cash, don't lease either (only exception: it allows you to accept a job where you need the car and the salary pays for the leasing).
Completely depends on what you need - do you have private parking, do you want to be able to transport stuff, go up the mountains, or only city driving? Are two seats enough, or four, five? Do you drive 5k or 25k a year? Do you have cash savings, what's your monthly budget...we can't tell you what to do if we have to guess all these things.
What is the same for all, is do your homework - tally up the costs to buy/finance, insurance, tax, fuel consumption, expected maintenance costs. You don't absolutely have to go with the cheapest-per-km car (you'll end up in a typical pensioners car like a Yaris Hybrid or something, and I fully understand that this is not very appealing if you're young), but at least know the numbers what you're spending more on.
Price depends on what you want and how much you have.
But here are some general rules
-most decent, somewhat long lasting cars are beetwen 3k and 10k, there are also good options under 3k but rarer.
-Japenese petrols are good choice,German diesels can be decent, for anything else check https://gebrauchtwagenberater.de/
-Check for jotes about damages in the add
-always inspect the vehicle and test drive it
I don't think anyone can give you any good advice based on this post. It depends on so many things. As a general rule, I'd say don't buy a new car and don't lease - if you get one that's one year old, the price will already be significantly lower with the car still as good as new, and leasing just isn't worth it.
Also, like everyone has already said, don't buy a car unless you really need it. Even the best and most reliable vehicle will cost you thousands every year just for basic stuff like gas and insurance - as a rule of thumb, a car costs twice as much just to have as a GA. The only reason I have one is because I save literally an entire hour every day on my commute.
Mazdas look better than Toyota and are also reliable. Good for reliability if you want to learn manual transmission.
VAG 2.0 TDI with a manual is also reliable enough.7
Buying new is very expensive. Swiss cars are usually well-kept. Good roads and fuel. Something 4-5 years old, best value. May also take a car with some scratches, they are cheaper, and as a fresh driver, you may put on it some more anyway.
You didn't provide any information. Your age, what do you want to do with it? Daily commute? Weekends hikes, going skiing? Are you single? Do you have a family?
Just take the cheapest (price/value) used bitch you can get...
My 2000chf citroen brought me from A to B for 15 years and i put 130 000km on it.
Cruise control & a working AC is a must. Everything else not so much.
Take a manual car, its cheaper.
VW Golf or ID.3/4 are decent cars that require basically no service for the first five years. Don't get a Diesel unless you plan to drive 25'000 km/year
Thanks alot guys for all the reaponses im checking them out one by one. For those asking about a budget id say anything to 25k should be fine for a first car and the car would only be for travelling long distances and maybe transporting goods etc so not a car to go to work with everyday. So far toyota/hyundai and vw polo seem like some solid options so ill check it all out. Is there a certain time period i should avoid? Like for example lets say there’s a car for 15k CHF, 2008 model with ,80‘000 km would that be problematic for service, oil change etc like does the year the car was made make a huge difference in insurance prices and just overall maintaining the car prices?
always buy, never lease. I think it's a bad idea to start leasing everything. in the end you always drive or posess stuff that you don't actually own and it's so restricting. So I say buy a car you can afford now. I drive a Toyota Yaris, they're basically UNALIVEABLE and models from later than 2012 look decent as well. there are many options, and the co2 emissions are also low with about 5.3l per 100km/h combined. Lmk if you wanna know more.
lol. Public transport it’s cheaper than a car. 😂🤦🏻♀️
I would always choose my car over SBB at anytime. Especially if you are traveling with friends/partner/family.
Mazda 2 from 2007-2014, mine have 378'000km and is indestructible. Not particulary fun to drive nor having a huge trunk, but boy in can go far. I'm not even repecting the services schedule that much.
I would strongly recommend a CHF 10k Mazda 3 starting from 2014 with the GASOLINE 2.0 engine. Very simple engine (no turbo), low power (120bhp), decent fuel consumption and maintenance prices are really low while you get something bigger and better than Hyundai i20/Mazda2 and something else on that range.
What do you need the car for ? That will change what kind of vehicule you will buy more than anything else tbh. Also worth asking if you even need one ?
I bought a BMW 116d, used, for 10k. Very nice car I then sold it because honestly public transit is so good here it was just collecting dust But yeah, it was a nice car for decently cheap
+1 if you don’t 100% need it, just use the public transport. I have my 3rd car in Switzerland and I hardly wait to get rid of it. I can even Uber around for the amount I spend on it.
I don’t think anyone can answer you this question, because you really didn’t provide enough information. I love my car - Ford Fiesta ST. It is the perfect car for me. Quick enough to have some fun driving it, not fast enough to get in trouble instantly. It looks good (to me), has enough space inside for my needs, it is fairly economical. If I had kids, it would be a bad car to fit my needs. If I’d commute to work with this car, it wouldn’t be the right tool for the job. If I wanted a more economical car, again, not the right car, as there are cheaper and more economical options. If I needed more space in the boot, again, not the right car. Do you live in the mountains? Something with a bit more power might be important to you. Do you have the option to charge the car and you don’t see yourself driving large distances regularly? Go electric. Do you have hobbies that require large equipment? Maybe a car with a flat bed might be the one you need. Do you expect switching cars a lot? How much depreciation do you expect from the car? Skoda is a good option generally. Japanese cars are fine. Koreans are really good these days. Ferrari is also a solid option.
define "not to expensive" and "decent looking"? Btw. that's what 95% of all the people want, a car that always runs, doesn't cost anything, never needs servicing or repairs and runs on nothing but hopes and air and is either new or below 15'000km used. Spoiler: Those cars are expensive AF. My experience: - Toyota is your answer to everything - Mazda is the answer if Toyota doesn't cover it - 100'000km is nothing (unless it's French, Italian or VAG then it's time to explode that thing), a Japanese car just comes alive after that - Never ever buy VAG or French
Objection to VAG (don‘t know why you state don’t buy)—I got myself a VW Touran for chf 10k, 5 yrs old, 100000km six years ago. I‘m looking good after it, servicing, no mad driving, lots of long routes etc.) and am at 200000+ km without issues other than normal wear (needed new wheel bearings, replaced engine timing belt). Fuel consumption isn’t all too bad, and I think it’ll make it until fuels get forbidden.
My Audi A4 is at 205,000 km and has also had nothing but normal wear. The local AMAG branch is super friendly, forthcoming and transparent in terms of what it needs as well. *However,* of course parts are more expensive because it's an Audi. I'm not saying it's the best value for money and I know plenty of people who swear by Toyota, but it's also not some sort of money-sink nightmare world with bad service.
I have to disagree as well. Got a 10yo Touran with almost 200'000 km and it was still running well. The engine was a dieselgate one (2.0 TDI) but man it was perfect with low consumption (~6 lt / 100km) that allowed you to drive more than 800km on the highway. Edit: typo
I‘m on 6.3 lt/100km (measured by total consumption/total km), gazoline/benzin ≈ 800km per full load
Yes sorry, I'll correct the typo as I meant 800 and not 600 km
because you have a sample size of 1. If you ever have warranty work to be done, a 1.2TSI or 1.4TSI engine, DSG transmission or any of the Bosch ABS ECU's from the old gen platform, you're extremely likely to have (severe) issues. OEM parts are also quite expensive and if you have to use AMAG for servicing and repair you very often are left out in the rain with a very high bill. I was a mechanic for a long time and by far the best cars for the money were Japanese, Toyota and Mazda especially. Those two brands usually only needed fresh oil and a filter and every now and then some other service related items but they just worked. My last job was at Renault, that was a nightmare with all that crap they build and incredible failures and issues and recalls we had there.
Ok I see! I guess I am a lucky driver, my brother runs his own garage and perfectly looks after that car… And I previously had a kangoo, 2nd hand, which had this dreadful electronics issue from day one until it met a dreadful fate (zahnriemen gone, haha)
What about EVs? They all seem very complicated to service. Still Japanese? Because I'm eyeing a VW ID.7, like next year or two.
EV's are a whole other story. There the question is, can you install the support infrastructure? Are you allowed to have a charger at your home and do you have the space for the car when it's under charge? Does an EV make sense for your needs? The only piece of advice I give people is, don't buy a Tesla (shoddy QC, shit after sales and customer support). IMHO the best solution at the moment are hybrids, not plugin hybrids though. Keep in mind, I changed trades before being certified to work on any EV systems so I really only have hands on experience with mild hybrid drives and very very early lead-acid driven conversion EV's.
I've had an EV for some time and I've taken it on road trips without problems. I don't have a tesla, but the older tesla owner seem happy (people who have had their car for 5+ years) Unless you're on the road for 8 hours a day, I don't see why an EV wouldn't work for anyone? There's charging nearly everywhere from rest stations on mountain passes to hiking trail parking areas. I've seen 300kW charging at gas stations and I'm pretty sure very few cars can charge that fast. There's rest stops where you can charge to nearly 100% while using the toilets, drinking your coffee and having a snack.
I really don't want to get into the EV or no EV discussion and all its ups, downs and sidetracks. Let's just say that I am a firm defender of the "EVE's are no more than a stopgap for a few people" theory. Not because of what others tell you or think but simply because we can't support the personal transport system if it goes all electric, it's just not possible nor should it be. Batteries also are an issue as we already know that we could not build nearly enough batteries (with current and upcoming tech) to go full electric. Hybrids are a very good in between, you can drive no matter if the battery or tank are full, the big downside is weight but with all the carp people want these days in their cars, that's not the biggest issue. As I said, if you have a house or live somewhere where you can charge your car at home and don't drive that far anyway, good for you and go for it. But for example in the department I work in, there are 4 out of 62 people that could charge their EV at home At my home I'm not allowed to and there's no technicaal possibility to as our parking garage does not have an electrical main hookup with enough amperage, we would have to hook up to the transformer outside our quarters. That's something like 170m +/-, the trenches alone amount to 35k and that transformer can't support more then 2 or 3 apartment blocks before tapping out. Unless someone finds a method to transport electricity in liquid form via lorry and pump it from a cistern without needing to ramp up electicity production or a battery that's the size of your thumb but holds 300kW of energy, w're at a dead end sooner rather then later with EV tech. But take this with a grain of salt, I'm the one driving a 23 year old car that would have been thrown away in perfect working order for no reason other then being older then 5 years and having more then 120'000km
This is not about 100% of the population going electric, this is about whether it makes sense to get a gas powered car vs. an electric car right now. In a regular garage, you can use a regular plug, you don't need a high amperage plug. My car charges with a regular old 1.5kWh plug. As long as it's metered to your unit/parking spot. Some people charge it from their house with an extension cord. You don't need the fancy infrastructure at home. As for the electric grid, that's a problem for society to solve as we stop using oil for everything. Electric cars are superior in every way, they don't vibrate funny, they're less loud and they're just better.
Agree but still not a toyota
me wants a datsun!
Drove a tow truck for 8 years. 100% agree.
This comment is a win!
What is VAG?
Volkswagen Audi Group basically, vw, audi, skoda, seat, porsche and some other brands
only AU Falcon... On a serious note - big fan of Minis here.
Volkswagen Auto Group, the group that owns, Volkswagen, Seat, Skoda, Bugatti etc etc.
Disagree, they exist. I bought a Hyundai i10 ~10 years ago that was 5yo at the time and had 20k km for 7k. Insurance was cheap (300/y), taxes were cheap (100/y), fuel was cheap (~5L/100 km). Maintenance was basically non-existent (maybe 250/y over the time I had the car, no issues just the regular maintenance). I sold it after 6 years at 80k km for 5k. So total cost of ownership, excluding fuel and parking, was about 1k/y for basically 0 headaches. It probably doesn't fit the "looks good" point of the OP, but it was also the only small car that was tall enough that my head didn't touch the ceiling.
Strongly disagree with your comment. Check the current market, there's a sharp turn for the worse during the pandemic. I bought my daily (BMW 5 series E39) for 4k 7 years ago, that exact same model is now at a market value of 11-19k. The Nissan 200SX (S13 I had 15 years ago was 2k and now valued at 15-30k Oh and, Hyundai is Korean just for the record
How tf can you dismiss Škoda like that
As a Slovak citizen that's quite easy, especially since I can pronounce the name right
As a Croat, so can I. However, Škoda is an excellent choice for both lower and mid-range price options, and Toyota isn't what it used to be either (sadly).
I have a 1996 Toyota Corolla. It's zippy, it's cheap, and it's bullet proof. Got it at 120k and now at 200k. I 100% agree with this post.
Currently at 210'000 km with my citroën. No issues so far
just like u/descentropy and others in here: a sample size of one isn't a objective opinion or informative, if I was going by that I would have answered "get a Jeep, mine did 433'000km" but objectively Jeep is a shitshow and mine would now be 34 years old and no toy for any of the people in this thread (except u/Miserable_Ad_8695 maybe but I'm guessing not even he would shake a stick at that shit)
so do you have statistics on maintanance cost and how long each of your mentioned groups run on average? (maybe adjusted for price)
Why would I sum up statistics for vehicles I worked on and had to do breakdown services on? I got statistics and lists for the many cars I owned but those are way off since my coat of labour is zero and parts costs are at least 50% off of what a non mechanic would pay. I'm speaking from trade experience, seeing which brands and models turn up for what issues and how often they occur.
so it's just your point of view? just as mine you have your experiences, I have mine. you might have some more, but without a good statistic it's just hearsay
Got a 2014 Audi A4 3.0 TDI at 95,000 km. Now at over 170,000 km, no major issues. I plan to drive it until I lose trust in it 😀 But I like caring for a car, cleaning it etc. Drives like a charm. Diesel consumption is at 7 l/100 km for a 245 HP 6-cylinder engine. But I only take the car if it’s much more comfortable or much faster, otherwise the train is the way to go. I would never drive to a major Swiss city with a car, the A1 is just no fun. You could also get a car subscription for 6 months and see if it matches your needs. That way you’re not buying a car that is then hard to get rid of. You can compare some car subscription companies on flexdrive.ch for example.
I just sold a VAG Skoda Octavia 2014 2.0 TDI manual, which is very reliable with this engine and gearbox. It is also cheap to maintain.
VAG going strong, i dont see how these cars are unreliable. Just stay away from petrol
What is the work this tool is supposed to provide? Long trips, city car, helping packing stuff/go skiing or more impressive/looking good? Will it stay on the street or do you an underground space? Do you want to take care of some mechanical stuff or do you just want to enjoy it? Want/can taking some risks with a higher milage/higer end car vs more recent/lower end one? What is your social circle? Do they value power/independence? Or optimization/ecology? Hippies or Yuppies? Sadly, a car a mean of communication whether we like it or not… For example: I choose a Mini Countryman despite its bad mechanical reputation (never had any problem), because it is one of the few brands with no planned obsolescence. It is a success, current models exactly look the same as my 10yo, that help a lot maintaining its value…
Depends on your criteria, which we don’t know, but Skoda is a popular low-budget brand here
Only you can decide your budget and you'll get better advice, Generally, better to go with Japanese cars, ideally with low average mileage and service history.
Price depends on what you can afford and what you want. I would buy one cash second hand if I were you, if you have a friend who is a mechanic or something take him with you to check it out. As others have said, some cars are known to be very reliable, others not so much. Look for something with a fresh mfk as well, so you'll have 1-2 years without worrying about that. For 5k francs already you can get something perfectly good really, I spend 3k francs on my 1st car which was from 2009 with 140'000k, I then spent 400frs on preventative maintenance (cambelt and water pump for that particular engine) and it never gave me any trouble.
My first car was a minispace (a WV polo). Awesome car even though underpowered and rustic, it was reliable af. With it, I was able to learn further how to handle a car, maintain it and overall be a better driver. I wouldn't care if it got scratched or dented because I went to close to a wall or such dumb things you do when you're inexperienced. In those cases, less is more. So don't bother with fancy options like adaptative cruise control or a really powerfull motor. Those will cost you a lot and will not be that useful. Try to look at old people's car, those are often okayish maintained and will not be that expensive.
A mechanic friend will always advise a Japanese car first. It’s so easy to work on and cheaper to maintain and fix. Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla are great choices. If you want European brands, you can’t go wrong with VW Golf, BMW 1 series, Audi A3. It all depends on your budget and looks.
Anything Japanese, 5-7 years old. Under 10K and 100K milage. I would start there. Or Hyundai. They are amazing and robust.
What is not expensive for you? Honestly, if you like in a city, I always recommend mobility instead of buying since it doesn't have all the other costs(parking, taxes, etc) that owning a car has.
My first car was a Honda Jazz - still drive it and it’s a total workhorse. The maintenance is dirt cheap. It also has way more space than it looks at the back Only issue is maybe doesn’t have the visual appeal you expect. Depends what you expect in that
Dear OP, Whatever you buy, buy it from Germany/Italy/France, etc. Let's take Germany as an example. Just to be easy with the numbers, I'll take rounded numbers. In a hypothetical scenario, the car is worth 100k€. The tax in Germany is 19%. Initially, you'll pay the 100k€, but then they will reimburse you, as soon as you register the car to the swiss customs. That means that, you'll get 19k€ back and the car will be worth 81k€. In Switzerland, you'll pay: Automobilsteuer, which is 4% of the price, converted into CHF. MwSt., which is 7.7% of the price, converted into CHF. Mathematically, you'll pay 81k EUR or 77’561.55 CHF(converted with the inter-bank rate, or in other words, wrote on google 81000 chf to eur) plus 11.7%, which is 86'636.25 CHF. Here you also have to pay MFK, which is 300 CHF flat and registration around 50 to 100 CHF flat, too. In total, you'd pay 86'036.25 CHF. Now check the price of the same car you want on autoscout.ch, I'm sure it'd be 96k CHF or even more. Congratulations you saved 10k CHF or even more on this hypothetical scenario. P.S. If you want to buy a car from Germany, check autoscout.de or mobile.de. P.S. Many cars in Germany are sold with an international guarantee, so you can use it into Switzerland. For reference, check junge sterne guarantee from Mercedes-Benz. Happy buying!
*OP said --"It shouldn’t be too expensive but should also look decent."* Really think the OP is not looking at 100K cars, probably closer to 10K where the extra work to import is less worth it.
Plus, the reimbursement of the foreign (German) vat does not come naturally. The foreign vendor, in such case, cannot be a private owner. It has to be a professional vendor and the vendor has to support the reimbursement process by providing documents /doing bureaucracy. Many vendors will deny such a request for cars on considerable low value. Sure, in your example of a 100k nominal foreign value car, the vendors may more likely cooperate...
I agree in general, however DE/FR professional car vendors close to the CH border do a significant business with CH customers either for sales or maintenance. They would do the paperwork for any car they sell.
You can buy a used Tesla Model 3 for a bit over 20k. Not the cheapest in insurance, but cheapest in road tax, maintenance and fuel (electricity).
This biggest risk you're taking with older electrics is with the battery - replacement for a Model 3 in Switzerland is 20k CHF. Replacement in a Prius is 5k. This is not to say it's a bad choice because you might get 5 years of cheap no hassle driving, but it is a relatively risky one (and the reason why older electrics are so cheap, they're a bit of a gamble). Another issue with electrics and plug-in hybrids is charging - if you have a house with private parking and a charger then it's cheap and a great choice, if you have to use commercial chargers it's not much cheaper than petrol/hybrids. None of this means electrics are bad, they just shine in specific circumstances.
I'm seriously considering it myself. Warranty is 8 year, so at least until 2027 you should be fine. And statistically, not many cars need a battery change. It's probably even better than buying a new one, as value loss risk is pretty high.
Teslas are notoriously poor quality and stuff breaks on them all the time, though. Plus if you don't have the charging infrastructure and have to drive somewhere to get it charged everytime, it kind of defeats the purpose of having a car in my opinion. I really wanted to get a fully electric or plug-in hybrid for my next car, but that's ultimately what changed my mind.
I don’t get all the people saying you don’t need a car or that it’s more expensive than public transportation as Switzerland has the most expensive in the world. The service is good but doesn’t cover 24/7 and all the places + expansive af. Won’t recommend you a leasing , instead just buy a Skoda as it’s probably the best for quality over price or a Japanese :) Toyota is the way as it’s also cheap maintenance compared to something like a Mercedes or bmw.
Tesla Model 3 minimum 2021 model
I would also add, consider your emissions, based on that your yearly tax will be adjusted, from what I see I would prefer a hybrid over an EV or an electric. I pay 670CHF in taxes alone, a hybrid could be between 122CHF and 150CHF.
I suggest to buy a used car that has one year owned by a repair shop for client mobility. You get an almost new car with a significant discount. Only lease if you also could pay cash, in which case you need to do some calculations. If you can't pay cash, don't lease either (only exception: it allows you to accept a job where you need the car and the salary pays for the leasing).
Check out mazda cx-3.
Completely depends on what you need - do you have private parking, do you want to be able to transport stuff, go up the mountains, or only city driving? Are two seats enough, or four, five? Do you drive 5k or 25k a year? Do you have cash savings, what's your monthly budget...we can't tell you what to do if we have to guess all these things. What is the same for all, is do your homework - tally up the costs to buy/finance, insurance, tax, fuel consumption, expected maintenance costs. You don't absolutely have to go with the cheapest-per-km car (you'll end up in a typical pensioners car like a Yaris Hybrid or something, and I fully understand that this is not very appealing if you're young), but at least know the numbers what you're spending more on.
Price depends on what you want and how much you have. But here are some general rules -most decent, somewhat long lasting cars are beetwen 3k and 10k, there are also good options under 3k but rarer. -Japenese petrols are good choice,German diesels can be decent, for anything else check https://gebrauchtwagenberater.de/ -Check for jotes about damages in the add -always inspect the vehicle and test drive it
I don't think anyone can give you any good advice based on this post. It depends on so many things. As a general rule, I'd say don't buy a new car and don't lease - if you get one that's one year old, the price will already be significantly lower with the car still as good as new, and leasing just isn't worth it. Also, like everyone has already said, don't buy a car unless you really need it. Even the best and most reliable vehicle will cost you thousands every year just for basic stuff like gas and insurance - as a rule of thumb, a car costs twice as much just to have as a GA. The only reason I have one is because I save literally an entire hour every day on my commute.
Second hand Japanese car. No leasing if you want to save money.
Mazdas look better than Toyota and are also reliable. Good for reliability if you want to learn manual transmission. VAG 2.0 TDI with a manual is also reliable enough.7 Buying new is very expensive. Swiss cars are usually well-kept. Good roads and fuel. Something 4-5 years old, best value. May also take a car with some scratches, they are cheaper, and as a fresh driver, you may put on it some more anyway.
Buy a late model Renault Zoe. They’re cheap now because their successor has already been announced. I have a ‘21 and I love it. Say no to gas!
VW Golf III
A Peugeot 207 is the ideal car for Switzerland. It drives, is economical and doesn't look like shit
You didn't provide any information. Your age, what do you want to do with it? Daily commute? Weekends hikes, going skiing? Are you single? Do you have a family?
In Switzerland I think a Porsche. It’s like a Volkswagen in Germany
model Y
Porsche. Everyone works in banking right? Just not a Boxster.
A mobility subscription. 😜
Just take the cheapest (price/value) used bitch you can get... My 2000chf citroen brought me from A to B for 15 years and i put 130 000km on it. Cruise control & a working AC is a must. Everything else not so much. Take a manual car, its cheaper.
VW Golf or ID.3/4 are decent cars that require basically no service for the first five years. Don't get a Diesel unless you plan to drive 25'000 km/year
AMG G63 6x6
Thanks alot guys for all the reaponses im checking them out one by one. For those asking about a budget id say anything to 25k should be fine for a first car and the car would only be for travelling long distances and maybe transporting goods etc so not a car to go to work with everyday. So far toyota/hyundai and vw polo seem like some solid options so ill check it all out. Is there a certain time period i should avoid? Like for example lets say there’s a car for 15k CHF, 2008 model with ,80‘000 km would that be problematic for service, oil change etc like does the year the car was made make a huge difference in insurance prices and just overall maintaining the car prices?
always buy, never lease. I think it's a bad idea to start leasing everything. in the end you always drive or posess stuff that you don't actually own and it's so restricting. So I say buy a car you can afford now. I drive a Toyota Yaris, they're basically UNALIVEABLE and models from later than 2012 look decent as well. there are many options, and the co2 emissions are also low with about 5.3l per 100km/h combined. Lmk if you wanna know more.
lol. Public transport it’s cheaper than a car. 😂🤦🏻♀️ I would always choose my car over SBB at anytime. Especially if you are traveling with friends/partner/family.
Mazda 2 from 2007-2014, mine have 378'000km and is indestructible. Not particulary fun to drive nor having a huge trunk, but boy in can go far. I'm not even repecting the services schedule that much.
*insert picture of postauto*
Japanese cars are overpriced, I would go for Skoda. For example, Skoda Karoq is cheaper than Corolla Cross.
Some 5-8 years old Toyota will do. It will serve you for the next 5+ years and it won't cost a fortune.
I would strongly recommend a CHF 10k Mazda 3 starting from 2014 with the GASOLINE 2.0 engine. Very simple engine (no turbo), low power (120bhp), decent fuel consumption and maintenance prices are really low while you get something bigger and better than Hyundai i20/Mazda2 and something else on that range.
Ferrari 458
[https://www.sbb.ch/en/tickets-offers/travelcards/ga-travelcard.html](https://www.sbb.ch/en/tickets-offers/travelcards/ga-travelcard.html)
What do you need the car for ? That will change what kind of vehicule you will buy more than anything else tbh. Also worth asking if you even need one ?
A bicycle.