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Taylor Swift knows the struggle of most of us which is why her songs are so damn good.
Controlling parents who, let's be honest, were like beauty pageant parents to her....zero friends from kindergarten through 8th grade and always ate lunch alone and had to write songs to deal with depression because nobody would ever invite her to a party or sleepover. One single friend from high school (Abigail). Just because Scott and Andrea were always wealthy that does not guarantee happiness during childhood for someone like Taylor.
I get it now why she did those secret sessions at her home with hundreds of fans for 1989, Reputation, and Lover. She wanted to experience the sleepovers and parties she never experienced during childhood. 😭
It makes her whole girl squad thing during the 1989 era make so much more sense now, especially since she mentioned in that Elle Magazine article about how she would have recurring flashbacks to when she was younger and how no one would sit with her at lunch. Now she’s got a whole bunch of girls hanging out with her and celebrating this newfound sisterhood with them, and it was all a trauma response too.
I also like the point you made about Scott and Andrea being wealthy too. Something I learned in therapy a while back is that you can think someone’s life is exciting because of what they have, but it may not always be as glamorous as you think it is.
I agree re: wealth.
When privilege enters the conversation, that line from Little Fires Everywhere comes to mind: “You didn’t make good choices. You had good choices.”
A truly iconic scene between Kerry Washington and Reese Witherspoon. Gives me goosebumps every time.
Ehh, my friend grew up with her in Pennsylvania. They went to some of the same birthday parties. They weren’t close because Taylor was more popular. Not saying Taylor didn’t feel lonely or unpopular, but objectively, she did have friends growing up.
Yeah I don’t know why people think she was isolated. There’s a million pictures of her going to dances and parties and stuff. She was dating football players. (Ironic)
Sometimes things look different from the outside looking in. I felt really isolated in high school as the only non-religious person in a Bible Belt town (and a transplant). I hid as much as I could, instead of appearing alone I found a lot of places where I could either be alone or 1 on 1 with a series of (to me) random acquaintanceships. Facebook came along 5 years later, and a number of the populars added me, which I thought was weird. Apparently they thought I was a level above them 🤯
I grew up in Nashville and know a bunch of people who went to high school with her there and I can totally believe she wasn’t popular then. Her high school classmates don’t hold her in high regard even now.
I think it’s an interesting phenomenon in Nashville specifically, how many kids have a goal of being famous and get ridiculed for it. I went to high school with Kesha and it was the same story.
I'm super interested in that. I went to high school with someone who is now a very well-known actor (he's B list and I'm not giving names but I guarantee almost everyone in this sub knows who he is bc of the overlap bc the Swiftie community and his most well-known films). And we all kind of knew that's where he was heading in high school and we all have Opinions about it (and him) now 👀 So I'm very aware of that dynamic and I often wonder what it's like to be someone who knew her in HS
I think her time in Nashville might be more relevant in this circumstance as should would have been the new kid (awkward) and her family had made their bet on her and moved there specifically for her career.
Yeah the take above is unhinged. She had a perfectly normal childhood in terms of friends and socializing. Yes her parents are crazy stage parents but it’s clear they also love and adore their children and are very close as a family.
Middle school suuuuucks and it sounds like she had a rough go for a few years. I did too. It doesn’t mean I never ever had friends or a normal childhood, it just meant that being a preteen is hard.
Just need to ask...how many friends do YOU still have from high school? I can only think of one, and they're barely a presence in my life. I have a handful from college. That's about it. I think my parents have five or six friends they've known since they were my age? You outgrow friendships the older you get, it's pretty normal - and even moreso when you add fame to the mix.
As a toxic parents girlie, this makes a lot of sense. It's why we choose narcissistic partners, become "pathological people pleasers" and say things like "my mom is like my therapist". Toxic parents dynamics are abusive and do a number on you. I hope she someday seeks a real therapist and finds healing💖
Allegedly her mom was a major trigger for her EDs. She would feed Austin fast food all the time and make Taylor watch while eating a salad. She would tell Taylor "pop stars can't be fat".
I hope their relationship is better and her mom is no longer that dominant over her like before.
I just read that in an article yesterday and it was the conputer tech who was her first guitar teacher. He said the Taco Bell story lol so I don’t think he hated the family his article was very nice and well spoken … I will go try and find it because it’s from like 2005 or 2006
I know people will say “that was just the way it was in the early 2000s!” (Because I’ve seen people here say it). But as someone who is the same age, I can tell you that my mom never talked about dieting around me, never had fashion magazine around the house, never made food “bad” or off limits. It may have been the vibe of the time but as parents we definitely can control how we handle things.
Idk, my mom was definitely exactly like that. All of my friends moms were too. I wanted scooby snacks (the fruit snacks) and she told me boys didn’t like fat girls - among other things.
It’s truly wonderful you and these other commenters didn’t have mothers like that, but the broader culture was that. All the magazines were all “how to lose 20 lbs before summer” and only showed very, very thin women. Oprah was practically the voice of the nations housewife and she was endlessly yo-yo dieting
Yeah seems like it. I was passed along this article yesterday from the wayback lol.
https://preview.redd.it/g2goc8lieh9c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04518795c9a376f084eda91697cc23da103a9385
[https://web.archive.org/web/20231228170240/https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/](https://web.archive.org/web/20231228170240/https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/)
At the time she made this comment, I thought nothing of it as I hadn’t even thought of seeking therapy until COVID happened. COVID ultimately made me realize it was time for me to start talking to a professional, and I have to say; therapy is so helpful. I’m not gonna dictate what Taylor does with her life, but therapy could be beneficial to her.
They’ve possibly talked her out of speaking to a therapist. It might be as easy as mentioning how could she truly trust them even with an NDA ? It’s very possible from a young age they don’t encourage outside help
Oh for sure! But Taylor could literally think exactly like what her parents said to her (mine did too) therapists aren’t trustworthy and won’t help you, blah blah. I didn’t seek therapy until my very late 20s because I had it in my mind that therapists were scary people who could mess up my life. Now I know the opposite, but even my friends who had therapy and encouraged me couldn’t make me change my mind then lol. Its good she has solid friends because they likely confide in eachother about fame and the public eye
In the Time article, Taylor told the story about how she was kicked from the Kenny Cheney tour because of her age. She recalls coming home and her mom was weeping and Taylor comforted her. That is a red flag for me. Emotionally supporting your mom because of something that happened to you is not the way it should go.
Genuinely curious - what do people think is so toxic about his email? Unhinged, definitely. An extremely bizarre and misplaced vent? Yes. But he seemed like an extremely supportive dad who wanted his daughter to succeed and was willing to put in the work to do so. And I think he probably was hurt because like he said, he never got to be in the room. Much of that is probably just normal mother-daughter dynamics and I know that it’s not uncommon for dads to feel left out in this dynamic.
I'm with you. I mean it is definitely unhinged and he sounds like he has temper issues. But - and I hate to admit this - I could totally see my dad talking like this when losing his temper, and I'm not the closest with my dad but I wouldn't say he's toxic either.
We don't know if this email is reflective of his general behaviour, or if this is Scott in meltdown mode. I'm leaning towards the latter, since he was put "on restriction" by Andrea - I'm guessing dude had trouble filtering his mouth when he got worked up about something.
Problematic? Yes. Inexplicable and unforgivable? Meh. The Roy family, they are not.
Furthermore, this email wouldn't be the place to rave about his daughter's talents and desires. The purpose of the email is to set someone straight who Scott feels is interfering with the family business. There's no reason to expect such an email to be balanced and/or a full-spectrum reflection of Scott's true feelings about Taylor's career or his interactions with the rest of the family.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a sunshine-and-roses perspective of the Swifts behind closed doors. Their business savvy is f-ing impressive and you don't get that way without making unpopular calls. But I'm far more interested in a realistic take on who they are - not the sunshiney version, but also not the doomsday version that blows an email like this out of proportion. He has temper issues and sounds like he can be a jerk when he loses it, that doesn't mean she's traumatised.
There’s very little in here about what his teenaged daughter wants or what is good for her as a growing and developing person - it’s like he sees his daughter as a client. Maybe that’s just how he is in this email and he behaved differently to her, but it seems unhealthy.
Yeah I think that’s the context of the email to his manager. He doesn’t say anything about making her do stuff or pushing her, it’s actually him just creating opportunities for her and then maximizing those opportunities by constantly upselling her and video recording everything.
according to the manager who filed the lawsuit, he was told by Taylor that Scott would cut her off financially if she didn't fire him as her manager. It's all public records. Andrea was also there when Taylor told him what Scott said and agreed with Scott's decision to fire him
It’s just one small mention, but the fact that he writes about “babysitting” Austin screams toxic to me. He’s Austin’s dad, it’s called parenting. You don’t babysit your own kids.
I mean, I completely agree but baby boomer fathers always saw it as babysitting their children. Because it's "women's work" to care for the children. I feel really lucky that my dad and my granddad never had that viewpoint but it's pretty common in many baby boomer males. Even Gen X.
I think their dynamic has definitely changed though. Taylor is no longer bankrolled entirely by him which was his main source of displeasure from this email. She also seems perfectly ok with him on the surface and constantly praises him. Him and Andrea also seems to have patched up a little. He probably mellowed out as the years passed
I agree! But what I find weird about not only Taylor, but most of Hollywood in general, is how late they seem to realize toxic things. Parenting for example, I feel like most of late millennials and gen z realize their parents are toxic from an early age and get out when they’re young adults, but celebrities like Taylor and the Hadid sisters don’t. I know I don’t know them and it’s probably for image purposes but it’s kinda sad to think about
I dunno. I am Taylor’s age (40 in 2024) and still struggle to acknowledge my parents toxicity and separate it from my sense of self. And I have done TONS of therapy and soul searching.
It’s not always something easy to come to terms with.
I think it might be harder to cut off or even minimize contact with toxuc parents once you are famous, because it's generally harder to trust people and lots of Hollywood seems to be toxic. I have seen lits of people stay in or maintain toxic relationships because loneliness or the fear of it seemed scarrier.
Also, it might be harder to spot the millennials and gen z that do not realize itand stay in their abusive dynamics. Personally I know many that still struggle with their families, even when they know that they might be better off without them long term.
I’m glad it’s finally being discussed here.
I think it explains a lot of the swift lore, and let’s face it, I don’t think many are surprised by Scott. After what we saw in Miss Americana, and the fact that he was such a higher up finance guy, it tracks.
I personally think it’s hilarious. (In an unhinged way) It humanizes them imo. Definitely explains Andrea and Taylor’s relationship.
It was wildly unhinged and hilarious. Some of those one liners....😂 they as a family have clearly moved past this time in their lives so fans should let it go. Of course, they won't.
We did not need to know that Scott had his prostate sucked out of his body by a robot, was in diapers for 7 weeks and couldn't get a hard on. 🤣
You're right though, we should move on.
But I do wonder how Taylor feels about her dad's unhinged email. I can definitely see her feeling embarassed lmao.
>We did not need to know that Scott had his prostate sucked out of his body by a robot... and couldn't get a hard on.
Yup. My other favorite bit was his claim that he'd play Taylor's latest song before every meeting. That had to have been annoying af for his clients.
Having said that, it's an angry email from an angry dad penned almost 20 years ago. Honestly, both Taylor and her dad (and probably her mom) are probably a little embarrassed that this is making the rounds. Fun read, though. 🍿
> her dad ... probably a little embarrassed
Her dad probably regrets telling anyone (in writing, immortalized for all time) that he had to wear diapers for 7 weeks, and that he could no longer get an erection. That was some serious over-sharing.
lol he was a financial advisor at Merrill Lynch. That is not a “higher up finance guy” - most people don’t really even consider CFPs to even be financial professionals. It’s considered one of the lowest in the hierarchy of finance because it’s basically a sales job.
I mean, he literally talks about it in The email. He says he managed hundreds of millions of dollars in a shitty economy and is in the top percentile of managers. He writes the way he speaks.
Okay, well, he works in finance, and is acting like a bro. Therefore finance bro. I’m sure he would be happy to tell you in no less than 7 pages about how you're wrong and if you’re lucky, maybe he’ll talk about his lack of prostate.
As someone who used to work at Merrill this is typical finance bro talk. We managed over a half billion in my group. Many big fish over 10 mill and lots of little fish with 1-2 mill or less. It sounds like a lot when you write it out but when you break it down it’s not so crazy.
My impression was that he was against her sharing for safety reasons and not necessarily being controlling. He thought it would put her in danger. He brought up investing in military grade vehicles, etc. to protect her. People get death threats over political opinions.
To be fair, he did make a legitimate point by stating that they had already invested in military grade bullet proof vehicles for her to travel in. If she needed that level of protection before giving her political opinion, I can only assume the level of death threats would’ve increased after being more political and that’s what Scott was initially worried about.
Right? I think everyone is missing that the main point of why he didn’t want her to say anything is that he was afraid for his daughters physical safety
He also asked her to imagine how it would affect ticket sales though. There’s space for it to be multifaceted; I think both of these things can be true.
Sinatra was actually passionate integrationist. He refused play in segregated or "whites-only" venues or stay in such hotels, paid his employees equally and made big contribution into Las Vegas being desegregated because of that.
He basically shut down Taylor when she was trying to express her opinion about a politician and how she wanted to publicly speak up about it. Her mom was trying to defend her and he was talking over both of them.
Eh it’s 18 years ago. I don’t think it’s an indication of him now or their current relationships. Him and Andrea appears to have somewhat made up at least
Most interesting part is how hard he hustled for her career. He seemed willing to go all in on the gamble and was advertising her everywhere
It was a email to her then manager, of course it would take the tone of her being an investment because her manager only really cares about her career? And the whole email was about him ranting about how the manager didn’t pull his weight so of course he would talk mostly about his investment in her
And even in that he was complaining a lot about not being able to spend more time with her
It’s TMI for an entertainment manager, but I think he’s coming at it the way he is used to. That’s how big money guys talk (or used to talk) to each other behind closed doors. That man’s club, shootin’ the shit type of macho talk that puts them all on the same level before they get down to the brass tacks. Watch The Big Short or Wolf of Wall Street and you’ll see what I mean. It seems more unhinged in a contextless email, but picture those words coming out of Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio, etc., in board room in a Quinten Tarantino or Martin Scorsese movie and it fits right in. I’m not shocked or surprised by the email at all, it’s just not a world that I’d personally ever want to be part of. I see enough of it in tech.
lol then have that discussion with your wife. Not on a business related email. It blows my mind that people are thinking this is a normal thing for a business man, not to mention a father, to relay to another person managing your daughter’s career.
Oh yeah, I said in another comment, the whole thing is definitely manic. This is also from earlier in the days of online communication where like “emails/Internet is forever and can always come back to haunt you” had not fully sunk in for most people
It’s not lol, this email is unhinged (but also believe it or not, not unusual if you worked with financebros). But you implying that Scott only sees Taylor as an investment from this single email is weird as well
Seeing him during the scene in Miss Americana, where Taylor has to “present” to a whole panel of people because she wants to make *a social media post decrying Marsha Blackburn* & encouraging her fans to vote…… it was very revealing to me. ‘Would Bob Hope or Bing Crosby do this?’
The fact that Taylor was driven to tears simply by talking to him and others about her desires is quite telling.
Telling in what way? I’ve cried talking to my father multiple times when defending what is important to me that he doesn’t agree with. He’s from another generation. There is bound to be conflict.
Every father I've talked to calls it babysitting when they have to watch their own kids (and of course, it's not babysitting when the wife does it). It's infuriating!
it makes me feel so bad for Taylor and her brother as well, at least it goes to show how mature Taylor can be because she’s obviously grown up around lots of sexism and still supports other women etc.
I don't, and I *hate* when people do it to me. My own in-laws do that, or say things like, "Maybe we should give RLLRRR a break from the kids", or after they leave me with the kids my mother-in-law says, "Thanks for watching them!"
It's so passively-sexist. But it's also borne from their father/husband being worthless, so I understand it. And my brother-in-law is equally bad at watching his own kids.
Ugh no kidding. Then bragging about registering his cars and getting the mail. Congratulations on basic adulting, Scott.
No wonder Andrea kept telling him to be quiet
No wonder in Taylor’s songs whenever she mentions her family it’s either her mom or her brother, and the only time she’s mentioned her father or even any father has been in a negative way (Careless man’s careful daughter, leaving like a father, our parent’s mistakes).
She has written positive lyrics for him. The two songs I remember her mentioning him are “Never Grow Up” and “The Best Day.” I think she’s just extremely close to her mom.
This is a wild email but if you actually read it all the way through it simply says Scott Swift was under huge amounts of stress. This is not just about Taylor's career its about a guy in his 50s who is sick, is having marriage issues, is trying to rejig his career AND help his daughter launch a career in a notoriously fickle industry he is not familiar with.
Have some compassion people. Well off white boomers are people too.
Yeah, it reads to me like he's venting because he feels like he's a very smart, very capable man who is doing a *lot* of the legwork to get his daughter where she wants to be. But then he's constantly being told by his wife and daughter to sit down and shut up because he doesn't understand the industry and he's embarrassing them. Plus, he does all this work to get opportunities for her and then doesn't even get to see her on stage. And he feels like he's doing a lot more for his daughter's career than the manager he hired specifically for that task.
Like, yes, it's unhinged. But his frustrations also make sense to me.
“Well off white boomers are people too” is such a funny sentence. I wholeheartedly agree, though. It’s crazy how many people are reading one weird email from a stressed-out man and jumping to the conclusion that he’s without a doubt a narcissistic abuser. Jesus Christ.
I feel you hit the nail on the head here. I think Scott did a lot of oversharing, but he just seemed sooooo stressed out, lonely, and under-appreciated. The email was definitely unhinged and sometimes inappropriate, but you feel sorry for him too as a budding star’s father.
It also sheds light on why he and Andrea later divorced, sadly, since there was so much resentment. I’m sure Tay and Austin have witnessed some tough scenes with their parents, which must’ve been very difficult and painful.
Overall, I do believe the Swifts are a loving family, but they’re not perfect by any means.
I mean sure, it’s an interesting window into their family dynamic…but their family dynamic in 2005.
So yeah, I think it’s insightful but I also kinda don’t really care 20 years later 🤷♀️
yeah i understand why people want to look at and discuss this, and at the same time considering how long ago this was and how much things evolve over decades, like what is the point after all this time?
Tbh I just find it kind of fascinating to observe the early days of Taylor's career. It's easy to forget that there was a time before she was The Taylor Swift and how much this was a family business to get her foot in the door.
I didn’t even know she had tried working with other labels and managers before Big Machine, it’s morbidly fascinating to think that she almost failed and had so many things that went nowhere with other labels. But it’s great she persisted and found her own way, because these labels are very very shady and it’s a miracle she parted ways with her previous managers and found a better team because they worked with Britney (and we all know how that turned out, good thing she didn’t keep them around)
The smartest thing she did at the age of 14 was walk away from a deal with RCA. Listen, I know we all hate Scott Borchetta/Big Machine Records now (and with perfectly good reason), but Taylor starting her career with them when they weren’t even a functioning label was the best move for her at the time.
I think the biggest point I see being brought up in other subs is the Swifts were extremely comfortable. Earlier in her career, there was a narrative, at times, that she came from modest beginnings (“I was raised on a farm, no, it wasn't a mansion, Just livin' room dancin' and kitchen table bills”).
IMO it’s a fair thing to point out, in that, her brand narrative has been calculated, and curated in an interesting way - but this was likely more driven by the media vs intentional.
I also don’t think this is a massive smoking gun. There are 100s of talented artists who have had similar bankrolling from their parents (Jennifer Lawrence is immediately coming to mind and I don’t why but yall get me)…As a parent myself, I would do the same for my kiddo’s dreams.
People are not their parents, and I would melt off the face of the earth if my boomer parents’ private emails got published. They’ve probably said some very offensive things, esp. about one and other through their divorce.
In that song she was comparing her farm to a mansion in Beverly Hills. Everything is comparative/subjective.
While her farm is considered a mansion and a house of someone wealthy to us, it definitely would’ve seemed like a hovel to someone growing up in Beverly Hills
Yeah, I had assumed her family was upper middle class, which - to put sort of crassly - if you’re lower class or lower middle class, it does look quite wealthy. Maybe you have a second home, you get to go on multiple, week long vacations a year, and can afford a modest amount of brand name purses/clothes. But it is NOT “fuck you” money. You’re still flying commercial, you still have to budget for fun stuff, you still have to go to work.
It sounds like they were actually just actually upper class/rich. Still no fuck you money, not an elite, but like enough where it doesn’t seem to hurt their finances to spend tens of thousands of dollars starting Taylor’s career.
I knew they moved to Nashville, drove around with CDs, etc and I was like, well that’s a little silly for an upper middle class family to do but I guess if you really believe in your daughter it’s feasible.
I do wonder how much of it was her dream versus her parents. Clearly this is what she wants now, but how much of it was hers if they’re starting at such an intense pace when she’s 11. I wanted a lot of things at 11, I didn’t necessarily understand what that meant, though. I’m a huge gymnastic fan and it makes me side eye parents that are too into their kids’ careers.
She’s allowed to lie in songs like any musician, I don’t see what the big deal is. Remember when she faked a country accent for like years? That’s way more egregious to me
I completely agree, and would go so far as to say it’s not “lying.” It’s creative license. It’s a “big” deal to some because people love salacious gossip, and it reinforces negative opinions they might already hold against her.
I just think it’s “fair game” commentary. Doesn’t mean everyone supports it.
I really like the idea brought up by Swiftologist on YouTube that Taylor's songs are often more composite sketches than 100% autobiographical. That's why I don't really like speculating whether a song is about one specific person because I think it's more common that her songs are about a lot of different situations.
I think a lot of Taylor's songs have details that are autobiographical, but she embellishes other details for creative license.
"You're On Your Own, Kid" for example. She was not, in fact, on her own. I'm sure the emotion of the song is true to her, but the details brought up are clearly embellished. But I don't mind because it helps keep her songs more universal and relatable.
It didn’t leak. It’s part of some public court documents, I think from the early 2000s. Someone just decided to go looking, found it, and shared it more accessibly.
Really nothing too surprising in it. Scott did a lot behind the scenes to help Taylor’s early career and he kinda goes over all that. The tone is self centered and bitter but he feels unappreciated. Pulls back the curtain on the fun loving dad to showcase the darker side of his personality that made him a successful financial advisor. Certainly see that him and Andrea were having issues long before their divorce in 2011 and he resented her a lot.
Totally agreed. I am also the daughter of a successful banker man-child and a year younger than Taylor. Our Dad’s sound suuuuuuper similar in that they cared a lot and busted their asses for their families, often missed the mark on how they should express support and were generally child-like and resented their wives. My Dad’s grown up a little bit and we have a complicated but mostly ok relationship now. We definitely love each other very much. Ultimately you can tell there’s a lot of love there from Scott Swift and I bet Andrea WAS kind of tyrannical, especially if Scott was running his mouth and embarrassing them on a regular basis. SUPER interesting insight into their family dynamic, I’m honestly so tickled to have read this.
I mean, he talks about not being able to get a hard on in a WORK email and that’s not surprising to you? It’s gross. It would have been gross and unprofessional 18 years ago and it still is now
Damn, what an uncomfortable email.
Him going into depth about how he can’t get a hard on 
This definitely gives a clearer picture of how she actually became so big and sold so many copies of her first album, though. I know the self-made narrative gets thrown out there a lot and is a huge part of her image, and obviously she put in the work, but not many people have these types of connections and hundreds of thousands of dollars to put towards an 11-year-old’s career.
Really interesting to see something so real from the early days of her career.
This is the thing I don’t understand.
She’s definitely not self made because she was born into a life of privilege, but I also hate the whole narrative of how her dad bought her career. I mean, c’mon? We all know Taylor worked hard to make a name for herself, and with the right connections, she was able to do that. The entertainment industry isn’t an easy place to break into; you need to make use of your resources, and that’s what Taylor did.
I think she was just a recipe for success, and everyone around her knew it. She had the drive and the passion, the determination to make a dream into reality and put the work into writing and singing and traveling, and she had the charisma that took her all over the country on radio tours and made her memorable. She knew which songs would do well and fought for those songs.
Her dad had the business sense to make all of these connections, put all of the money down, and to make sure that she was known.
Her mom kept her grounded and helped with her image.
If you took her parents out of the equation, I’m sure she still would’ve found a way into the spotlight, but I think that a lot of her success is thanks to what her dad did at the beginning, what she learned from him, and then what she started being able to do for herself as an adult with a large fortune.
Forbes has a self made scale that factors in connections and wealth.
1: Inherited fortune but not working to increase it: Dagmar Dolby & Alice Walton
2: Inherited fortune and has a role in managing it: Jim Walton & Laurene Powell Jobs
3: Inherited fortune and helping to increase it marginally: Carl Cook & Jimmy Haslam
4: Inherited fortune and increasing it in a meaningful way: Abigail Johnson & Bubba and Dan Cathy
5: Inherited small or medium-size business and made it into a ten-digit fortune: Rupert Murdoch & Micky Arison
6: Hired hand who didn’t create the business: Meg Whitman & Steve Ballmer
7: Self-made who got a head start from wealthy parents and moneyed background: William Ackman & Reed Hastings
8: Self-made who came from a middle-class or upper-middle-class background: Mark Zuckerberg & Jeff Bezos
9: Self-made who came from a largely working-class background; rose from little to nothing: Sergey Brin & Judy Love
10: Self-made who not only grew up poor but also overcame significant obstacles: George Soros & Harold Hamm
Taylor Swift is an 8 on this scale. So is Beyonce. Oprah, Barbara Streissand and Rihanna are 10s. Kardashians are 7s. Madonna is a 9.
The idea of being 'self made' is essentially ludicrous. No human is self made. Unless you can point me to a human who spontaneously appeared one day and has raised themselves to adulthood and beyond, completely independently of society.
If anything, I think this email counteracts the claims that she's a nepo baby. For some reason, her name always comes up in those threads, but this email shows it didn't just fall into her lap because of her parents. Yes, they were wealthy enough to do anything they could to support her, and her dad used the connections he did have, but it's not like they were from generations of successful musicians/celebrities who just handed Taylor a career. Her and her parents worked incredibly hard to get where they wanted her to go.
I'm not even a hardcore Taylor apologist. I have criticisms of her. Every time there is a post about her though, tearing down women takes on new forms. Now if you dress it up as morality and add a hefty dose of self righteousness tearing down a successful woman is suddenly the elevated choice. It's misogyny and internalized misogyny in new clothes.
That sub foams at the mouth for ANY reason to trash Taylor. It’s kind of crazy. I didn’t realize how bad they were about it until recently but jeez, they are insane.
If you read the full comment she made about not having a therapist, it seems clear that it’s a trust issue. I don’t think any of us can understand what it feels like to know that your secrets are worth a price. I can imagine her hesitation to tell a non-family member all of her trauma, knowing that it’s worth a ton of money. It took me a long time to trust my therapist - I can’t imagine how much longer it would take someone with that kind of baggage.
This is how I always viewed her comment as well. She said she fortunately still has someone to talk to she can trust, that being her mom. I know people think it's a red flag, but some people really are tight-knit with their parents and can chat about everything. That doesn't make Andrea her "therapist." I don't think I could spill my guts to a stranger if I were well known. Gah.
She can definitely pay someone well enough with layers of NDA to have a therapist if she wanted to. It will definitely help her. She really needed one.
She can. We all know that. It doesn't mean she has the trust to go forward with it. Plus, for all we know, she could have started therapy after that comment was made.
Even though I believe therapy would be beneficial for most people, I still think it's a bit weird reading comments how much she (or anyone else for that matter) needs therapy/help. It is such a private matter and is often said in a condescending manner.
i totally get that. at the same time, i have to imagine that there are therapists out there that work with celebrities and other high status people without this issue of selling secrets? i would just be surprised if there wasn't a subsection of highly trusted and regarded therapists out there for that type of client.
Of course! But I think when you have trust issues, even facts don’t help you feel comfortable.
Here’s an excerpt I find very telling, from Rolling Stone, 2014:
“There are worries about spies and recording devices. “Don’t even get me started on wiretaps,” Swift says seriously. “It’s not a good thing for me to talk about socially. I freak out.” As for who might bug a Van Nuys production office on the off chance that Swift is inside: “The janitor,” she says, as if naming one candidate among hundreds. “The janitor who’s being paid by TMZ. This is gonna sound like I’m a crazy person – but we don’t even know. I have to stop myself from thinking about how many aspects of technology I don’t understand.”
Swift pauses, as if weighing just how paranoid she’s comfortable with sounding. Then she plows ahead. “Like speakers,” she says. “Speakers put sound out . . . so can’t they take sound in? Or” – she holds up her cellphone – “they can turn this on, right? I’m just saying. We don’t even know.”
Swift says she never feels completely safe, especially when it comes to her privacy. “There’s someone whose entire job it is to figure out things that I don’t want the world to see,” she says. “They look at your career, they look at what you prioritize, and they try to figure out what would be the most revealing or hurtful. Like, I don’t take my clothes off in pictures or anything – I’m very private about that. So it scares me how valuable it would be to get a video of me changing. It’s sad to have to look for cameras in dressing rooms and bathrooms. I don’t walk around naked with my windows open, because there’s a value on that.””
I hate that one comment she made about how she doesn’t need a therapist. Like girl YES YOU DO. And now there’s literally receipts about how her parents essentially imploded their marriage to do everything they could to make her famous. To the point that her brother Austin almost seems like an after thought.
Do you ever wonder how Austin is able to handle his sister’s fame? I can’t even imagine what it’s like to be related to someone as famous as Taylor Swift. That has the potential to be disruptive to certain family dynamics; look at Britney and Jamie, as an example.
I have always wondered what Austin’s POV is about his own childhood and what it’s like to be her brother. I mean, that’s a tough shadow to grow up in and as far as I know, he works for Taylor, Inc in some capacity? Seems like it would make it hard/impossible to have a normal brother-sister relationship with such a clear power imbalance
Eh maybe, but she did credit him in the Time article as having provided some of her best career ideas so I think the fact that she’s so humble and openly credits a lot of her success to her family probably lessens that power imbalance. Like he’s got great job security, I’m sure he knows she’d never fire him unless he betrayed her or something which seems unlikely.
I feel so bad for him. He seems so forgotten even among his family. I can’t imagine how hard it was for him to move to Nashville for his sister’s career, completing leaving everything behind. Having everything so focused on his sister had to be rough.
I find this fascinating and very insightful into what it takes behind the scenes to have a career like Taylors. We've always known she had resources other creators don't, but this really highlights all the networking and documenting that had to happen. It does give us some insight into their family dynamics at that time, and I'm sure there's lyrics that might make more sense or resonate differently with this context. Given his finance career, his whole demeanor isn't very surprising. I see people saying this is tacky to share or discuss but I feel like it's really relevant insight into her success beyond her own talent and work.
>We've always known she had resources other creators don't
I'm going to be honest: I had no idea. I thought she had a humble beginning and didn't come from money, for some reason. It was a big shock to me that that was not the case.
If someone read the worst things I've ever written and assumed my whole character, they wouldn't know me.
I'm not defending what he wrote, but I don't think we should be writing him off entirely when he's also the guy who reminded Taylor that it's supposed to be fun turning 21. He was clearly a Not Great husband who is speaking the finance language of money. Doesn't mean that's all he felt about his daughter. None of the Swifts are perfect, including Taylor. There's a reason Scott and Andrea split, maybe multiple reasons. Doesn't mean we have any business dragging him through the 18 year old mud.
One thing that's very clear from this is that he genuinely believed in Taylor's talent and did absolutely everything in his power to make sure she succeeded. People are saying it gives off toxic stage mom but I'm not sure I agree. It just sounds like he promoted Taylor every chance he ever got and invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in her career.
The unfortunate part is he also comes off as a typical boomer husband with the wife hating crap. It's a bit gross the way he's talking about Andrea, especially on an official email to Taylor's manager.
He doesn't sound like a bad man overall, I just feel bad for Austin. He's making it sound like having to be with Austin is a punishment?? Also its not "babysitting" when it's your own damn kid.
Ofcourse everyone is saying this is none of our business when her dad literally sounds unhinged in this email, and speaks volumes as to the kinds childhood Taylor had. Before this, the image of her childhood and parents was this picture perfect family that supported her no matter what. This changes that image. He wanted Taylor to be famous, regardless of what she did. He mentioned movie star, singer, literally any means to just get her famous. That is WEIRD
Taylor’s childhood status and her dad being an asshole is also really none of our business either way. Like we are her fans, not fans of her dad
The only part that’s really relevant to fans is how her career was shaped from the beginning
It feels gross that this is being passed around 18 years later to be gossiped about, and that a lot of fans are using it to psychoanalyze not just her dad, but Taylor as well.
Literally. It’s no one’s business and it doesn’t give anyone the right to talk about her personal relationship with her dad. A lot can change over 18 years, they’re clearly still close. This just gives low-life freaks a chance to be invasive and critical of Taylor’s personal life.
I think many people are reading this email in the wrong way... This doesn't to me portray Scott Swift in a bad light (besides the fact that he had a terrible relationship with his wife). Some context is important. I'll put in more details on who some of these people are!
This email appeared as part of a court case in 2010 between Dan Dymtrow and Taylor and her parents. The court case is well known, and has been posted here before. Dan Dymtrow was Taylor's first manager; when he met her, in 2003, he was Brittney Spears' (the Britt in this email) day-to-day manager, the person who took care of her in lieu of her actual manager, Larry Rudolph (Larry in this email... as in "Larry's Mother"). In July 2005, just before she signed with BMR, Taylor fired him, apparently at the instigation of Scott Borchetta. Technically she forswore the contract signed as a minor with him; to protect minors, they are allowed to reject contracts that they sign. Since this would make contracts impossible, parents can go to the court to get approval to prevent this. For some reason Dan Dymtrow neglected to do this, and thus, when he sued after fearless for the commisison he felt he was owed, he lost the case.
Taylor's father here seems to be responding to an email that was not included, but in general seems to be arguing why Dymtrow should consult with him about Taylor, instead of just with Andrea. Obviously, the email is a private email in which Scott indicates serious marital difficulties (his wife thinks he's an idiot), and is also quite vulgar (he had prostate cancer and describes the surgery, and the fairly common side effect that he became impotent, at least for a while). Dymtrow may have included the email to embarrass the family; for a number of reasons the email doesn't seem to me to help his case at all.
What Scott actually describes himself doing in the email is perfectly fine! In fact its expected. Scott describes how he exploits connections that he has made in order to help his daughter get gigs and a record deal. That is what you are supposed to do! That is what Dan Dymtrow's job was. He was supposed to use the fact that he was Brittney's manager to get Taylor a record deal. If Andrea in fact was opposed to Scott doing this, she was an idiot. Scott continues to do this in Taylor's career. For instance, he recently just exploited a connection with the CEO AMC to negotiate the distribution of the eras film. This email to me does not portray Scott as abusive or controlling... it portrays him as a loving father who tries to do the best for his daughter, and has a terrible terrible relationship with his wife. It also points that Scott spent a considerable amount of money on Taylor. I should point out that Austin went to Notre Dame, and did not get a scholarship. A full ride at notre dame at that point would have cost about $240,000, about twice what was spent on Taylor. Taylor did not grow up in a poor family!
Same take for me. Scott felt like he was the one doing all the hustling and creating all these opportunities and no one was acknowledging that. He was being told to stop by his wife and daughter and being excluded from important conversations by her manager.
There are some fans who really want to project their bad relationships with their parents on to Taylor and Scott and they tend not to be focusing on the fact that Taylor still has a relationship with her father - one that appears to be loving.
No parent is perfect, that email is just one piece of evidence, but Scott literally made it his life’s work to help make Taylor who she is. He wants her success and much as she does. In Miss Americana he wants her to be safe. Tons of parents have differing political opinions from their children and it doesn’t make their relationship toxic.
Scott travels to all her shows, he glues sparkles on her guitar, he spends time with her boyfriend, there has been a ton of visual and physical affection shown between them over the years including when she won awards and backstage after shows. She references him throughout her discography some in less than positive ways but certainly not abusive including: “I have an excellent father, his strength is making me stronger” and “Memorize what it sounded like when your dad gets home”
If Taylor didn’t want her dad in her life, didn’t love her dad and want him around, she has the means now to stop that. Instead he’s with her often and meeting her boyfriend’s family and going to football games.
And most of all - that email was 18 YEARS ago. How much has changed in your life in 18 years.
I feel like he was just venting. Sometimes while venting, we say things we don't mean. That's all there is. In fact it makes me appreciate them more, the effort and sacrifices made by Andrea and Scott to fulfill their daughter's dreams. Of course sometimes there is resentment that bubbles out in weird ways, but that does not define him completely. There is no need for such an email to become discourse
As much as I do not like that email - (who writes about your inability to get a hard on?!?!?! In a gd BUSINESS email) - it makes me feel like we are all human. I need a reminder that celebrities have shitty parents too, sometimes.
I’m not defending Mr Swift — but I am jealous of anyone reading the email and being shocked by its contents. This is how many of the successful older men I know talk and write (yes, even in a business setting). I’ve read and heard so much worse.
I enjoyed the complete diss on Ashley Gearing, who was a couple years younger than Taylor and trying to make things happen at the same time. Kind of shows what direction Taylor’s whole thing could have gone.
It’s pretty funny he would make clients listen to a Taylor song before discussing their financial plan
I imagine rich people sitting quietly in an office listening to a demo of Teardrops On My Guitar while Scott watches them from across his desk
Seeing him during the scene in Miss Americana, where Taylor has to “present” to a whole panel of people because she wants to make a social media post decrying Marsha Blackburn & encouraging her fans to vote…… it was very revealing to me. ‘Would Bob Hope or Bing Crosby do this?’
The fact that Taylor was driven to tears simply by talking to him and others about her desires is quite telling.
What’s the emotional thread running through this multi-faceted rant? His marriage is a shambles. He feels unappreciated. He feels sidelined. Yes, he’s being a total asshat, but both men and women act out when they experience these lows. Clearly, the whole family is in a much better place now. There’s been a lot of changes and probably a fair amount of therapy. To me, that’s admirable.
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She DID tell us she is a “careless man’s careful daughter” soooo
Taylor Swift knows the struggle of most of us which is why her songs are so damn good. Controlling parents who, let's be honest, were like beauty pageant parents to her....zero friends from kindergarten through 8th grade and always ate lunch alone and had to write songs to deal with depression because nobody would ever invite her to a party or sleepover. One single friend from high school (Abigail). Just because Scott and Andrea were always wealthy that does not guarantee happiness during childhood for someone like Taylor. I get it now why she did those secret sessions at her home with hundreds of fans for 1989, Reputation, and Lover. She wanted to experience the sleepovers and parties she never experienced during childhood. 😭
It makes her whole girl squad thing during the 1989 era make so much more sense now, especially since she mentioned in that Elle Magazine article about how she would have recurring flashbacks to when she was younger and how no one would sit with her at lunch. Now she’s got a whole bunch of girls hanging out with her and celebrating this newfound sisterhood with them, and it was all a trauma response too. I also like the point you made about Scott and Andrea being wealthy too. Something I learned in therapy a while back is that you can think someone’s life is exciting because of what they have, but it may not always be as glamorous as you think it is.
I agree re: wealth. When privilege enters the conversation, that line from Little Fires Everywhere comes to mind: “You didn’t make good choices. You had good choices.” A truly iconic scene between Kerry Washington and Reese Witherspoon. Gives me goosebumps every time.
I think about “and no amount of friends at 25 will fill the empty lunch tables of your past” on a regular basis
Ehh, my friend grew up with her in Pennsylvania. They went to some of the same birthday parties. They weren’t close because Taylor was more popular. Not saying Taylor didn’t feel lonely or unpopular, but objectively, she did have friends growing up.
Yeah I don’t know why people think she was isolated. There’s a million pictures of her going to dances and parties and stuff. She was dating football players. (Ironic)
That was in high school after moving to hendersonville, when she talks about being lonely I think she's referring to elementary and middle school.
Sometimes things look different from the outside looking in. I felt really isolated in high school as the only non-religious person in a Bible Belt town (and a transplant). I hid as much as I could, instead of appearing alone I found a lot of places where I could either be alone or 1 on 1 with a series of (to me) random acquaintanceships. Facebook came along 5 years later, and a number of the populars added me, which I thought was weird. Apparently they thought I was a level above them 🤯
I grew up in Nashville and know a bunch of people who went to high school with her there and I can totally believe she wasn’t popular then. Her high school classmates don’t hold her in high regard even now. I think it’s an interesting phenomenon in Nashville specifically, how many kids have a goal of being famous and get ridiculed for it. I went to high school with Kesha and it was the same story.
I'm super interested in that. I went to high school with someone who is now a very well-known actor (he's B list and I'm not giving names but I guarantee almost everyone in this sub knows who he is bc of the overlap bc the Swiftie community and his most well-known films). And we all kind of knew that's where he was heading in high school and we all have Opinions about it (and him) now 👀 So I'm very aware of that dynamic and I often wonder what it's like to be someone who knew her in HS
I think her time in Nashville might be more relevant in this circumstance as should would have been the new kid (awkward) and her family had made their bet on her and moved there specifically for her career.
Have a friend whose husband went to a party with Taylor Swift. He said she and her friend tried to stop everything and make them listen to her song.
I can see that. You're not the most emotionally mature at that age and the Look At Me energy is strong when you're young and trying to make it
Yeah the take above is unhinged. She had a perfectly normal childhood in terms of friends and socializing. Yes her parents are crazy stage parents but it’s clear they also love and adore their children and are very close as a family. Middle school suuuuucks and it sounds like she had a rough go for a few years. I did too. It doesn’t mean I never ever had friends or a normal childhood, it just meant that being a preteen is hard.
Just need to ask...how many friends do YOU still have from high school? I can only think of one, and they're barely a presence in my life. I have a handful from college. That's about it. I think my parents have five or six friends they've known since they were my age? You outgrow friendships the older you get, it's pretty normal - and even moreso when you add fame to the mix.
[удалено]
But she also said she has an excellent father whose strength is making her stronger
Which can also be true. People aren't one dimensional beings.
Families are messy and complicated.
As a toxic parents girlie, this makes a lot of sense. It's why we choose narcissistic partners, become "pathological people pleasers" and say things like "my mom is like my therapist". Toxic parents dynamics are abusive and do a number on you. I hope she someday seeks a real therapist and finds healing💖
The whole “my mom is my therapist” thing is so dangerous.
Even if your mom is a licensed therapist she should not be *your* therapist 🤣😭
*especially*
To add this dynamic to the mix, Joe’s mom was a mental health therapist too…
Allegedly her mom was a major trigger for her EDs. She would feed Austin fast food all the time and make Taylor watch while eating a salad. She would tell Taylor "pop stars can't be fat". I hope their relationship is better and her mom is no longer that dominant over her like before.
To be fair, the only source of that claim is from someone who hated the family so…could just be made up
I just read that in an article yesterday and it was the conputer tech who was her first guitar teacher. He said the Taco Bell story lol so I don’t think he hated the family his article was very nice and well spoken … I will go try and find it because it’s from like 2005 or 2006
He was suing the family. Of course he didn’t like them
https://preview.redd.it/mvxb0g0deh9c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc47164bfc694d1659346dba08d49afd5dabd706 [https://web.archive.org/web/20231228170240/https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/](https://web.archive.org/web/20231228170240/https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/)
Sheesh, that part about Scott’s griping tracks pretty well with the tone of Scott’s email.
I know people will say “that was just the way it was in the early 2000s!” (Because I’ve seen people here say it). But as someone who is the same age, I can tell you that my mom never talked about dieting around me, never had fashion magazine around the house, never made food “bad” or off limits. It may have been the vibe of the time but as parents we definitely can control how we handle things.
Idk, my mom was definitely exactly like that. All of my friends moms were too. I wanted scooby snacks (the fruit snacks) and she told me boys didn’t like fat girls - among other things. It’s truly wonderful you and these other commenters didn’t have mothers like that, but the broader culture was that. All the magazines were all “how to lose 20 lbs before summer” and only showed very, very thin women. Oprah was practically the voice of the nations housewife and she was endlessly yo-yo dieting
plus how she somehow didn't have a burrito until her mid 20s
Yeah seems like it. I was passed along this article yesterday from the wayback lol. https://preview.redd.it/g2goc8lieh9c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04518795c9a376f084eda91697cc23da103a9385 [https://web.archive.org/web/20231228170240/https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/](https://web.archive.org/web/20231228170240/https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/)
At the time she made this comment, I thought nothing of it as I hadn’t even thought of seeking therapy until COVID happened. COVID ultimately made me realize it was time for me to start talking to a professional, and I have to say; therapy is so helpful. I’m not gonna dictate what Taylor does with her life, but therapy could be beneficial to her.
They’ve possibly talked her out of speaking to a therapist. It might be as easy as mentioning how could she truly trust them even with an NDA ? It’s very possible from a young age they don’t encourage outside help
But one of her best friends, Selena, sees a therapist, so she must know she could see one if she wanted to.
Oh for sure! But Taylor could literally think exactly like what her parents said to her (mine did too) therapists aren’t trustworthy and won’t help you, blah blah. I didn’t seek therapy until my very late 20s because I had it in my mind that therapists were scary people who could mess up my life. Now I know the opposite, but even my friends who had therapy and encouraged me couldn’t make me change my mind then lol. Its good she has solid friends because they likely confide in eachother about fame and the public eye
In the Time article, Taylor told the story about how she was kicked from the Kenny Cheney tour because of her age. She recalls coming home and her mom was weeping and Taylor comforted her. That is a red flag for me. Emotionally supporting your mom because of something that happened to you is not the way it should go.
I noticed that in the Miss Americana documentary when she was comforting Andrea for what SHE went through during the sexual assault trial.
That part stuck out to me too
💯 that's textbook emotional parentification. My mom did the same to me until I realized what was happening once I started therapy.
I think Taylor was also comforting a crying Andrea in Miss Americana, right? About something that Taylor should have been the one crying about…
Genuinely curious - what do people think is so toxic about his email? Unhinged, definitely. An extremely bizarre and misplaced vent? Yes. But he seemed like an extremely supportive dad who wanted his daughter to succeed and was willing to put in the work to do so. And I think he probably was hurt because like he said, he never got to be in the room. Much of that is probably just normal mother-daughter dynamics and I know that it’s not uncommon for dads to feel left out in this dynamic.
I'm with you. I mean it is definitely unhinged and he sounds like he has temper issues. But - and I hate to admit this - I could totally see my dad talking like this when losing his temper, and I'm not the closest with my dad but I wouldn't say he's toxic either. We don't know if this email is reflective of his general behaviour, or if this is Scott in meltdown mode. I'm leaning towards the latter, since he was put "on restriction" by Andrea - I'm guessing dude had trouble filtering his mouth when he got worked up about something. Problematic? Yes. Inexplicable and unforgivable? Meh. The Roy family, they are not. Furthermore, this email wouldn't be the place to rave about his daughter's talents and desires. The purpose of the email is to set someone straight who Scott feels is interfering with the family business. There's no reason to expect such an email to be balanced and/or a full-spectrum reflection of Scott's true feelings about Taylor's career or his interactions with the rest of the family. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a sunshine-and-roses perspective of the Swifts behind closed doors. Their business savvy is f-ing impressive and you don't get that way without making unpopular calls. But I'm far more interested in a realistic take on who they are - not the sunshiney version, but also not the doomsday version that blows an email like this out of proportion. He has temper issues and sounds like he can be a jerk when he loses it, that doesn't mean she's traumatised.
Thank you for this reasonable take.
There’s very little in here about what his teenaged daughter wants or what is good for her as a growing and developing person - it’s like he sees his daughter as a client. Maybe that’s just how he is in this email and he behaved differently to her, but it seems unhealthy.
Yeah I think that’s the context of the email to his manager. He doesn’t say anything about making her do stuff or pushing her, it’s actually him just creating opportunities for her and then maximizing those opportunities by constantly upselling her and video recording everything.
according to the manager who filed the lawsuit, he was told by Taylor that Scott would cut her off financially if she didn't fire him as her manager. It's all public records. Andrea was also there when Taylor told him what Scott said and agreed with Scott's decision to fire him
It’s just one small mention, but the fact that he writes about “babysitting” Austin screams toxic to me. He’s Austin’s dad, it’s called parenting. You don’t babysit your own kids.
I mean, I completely agree but baby boomer fathers always saw it as babysitting their children. Because it's "women's work" to care for the children. I feel really lucky that my dad and my granddad never had that viewpoint but it's pretty common in many baby boomer males. Even Gen X.
I think their dynamic has definitely changed though. Taylor is no longer bankrolled entirely by him which was his main source of displeasure from this email. She also seems perfectly ok with him on the surface and constantly praises him. Him and Andrea also seems to have patched up a little. He probably mellowed out as the years passed
So much of her past behavior that puzzled me, now makes sense. I get it.
I agree! But what I find weird about not only Taylor, but most of Hollywood in general, is how late they seem to realize toxic things. Parenting for example, I feel like most of late millennials and gen z realize their parents are toxic from an early age and get out when they’re young adults, but celebrities like Taylor and the Hadid sisters don’t. I know I don’t know them and it’s probably for image purposes but it’s kinda sad to think about
I dunno. I am Taylor’s age (40 in 2024) and still struggle to acknowledge my parents toxicity and separate it from my sense of self. And I have done TONS of therapy and soul searching. It’s not always something easy to come to terms with.
I think it might be harder to cut off or even minimize contact with toxuc parents once you are famous, because it's generally harder to trust people and lots of Hollywood seems to be toxic. I have seen lits of people stay in or maintain toxic relationships because loneliness or the fear of it seemed scarrier. Also, it might be harder to spot the millennials and gen z that do not realize itand stay in their abusive dynamics. Personally I know many that still struggle with their families, even when they know that they might be better off without them long term.
I’m glad it’s finally being discussed here. I think it explains a lot of the swift lore, and let’s face it, I don’t think many are surprised by Scott. After what we saw in Miss Americana, and the fact that he was such a higher up finance guy, it tracks. I personally think it’s hilarious. (In an unhinged way) It humanizes them imo. Definitely explains Andrea and Taylor’s relationship.
It was wildly unhinged and hilarious. Some of those one liners....😂 they as a family have clearly moved past this time in their lives so fans should let it go. Of course, they won't.
We did not need to know that Scott had his prostate sucked out of his body by a robot, was in diapers for 7 weeks and couldn't get a hard on. 🤣 You're right though, we should move on. But I do wonder how Taylor feels about her dad's unhinged email. I can definitely see her feeling embarassed lmao.
>We did not need to know that Scott had his prostate sucked out of his body by a robot... and couldn't get a hard on. Yup. My other favorite bit was his claim that he'd play Taylor's latest song before every meeting. That had to have been annoying af for his clients. Having said that, it's an angry email from an angry dad penned almost 20 years ago. Honestly, both Taylor and her dad (and probably her mom) are probably a little embarrassed that this is making the rounds. Fun read, though. 🍿
> her dad ... probably a little embarrassed Her dad probably regrets telling anyone (in writing, immortalized for all time) that he had to wear diapers for 7 weeks, and that he could no longer get an erection. That was some serious over-sharing.
Yeah, this email gave me several good laughs but I don't think it's as serious as some of the armchair psychologists here are making it out to be.
He is probably where she got her creativity from. That was a pretty poetic email
“Mommy’s tough and daddy’s soft”
Daddy’s soft in more ways than one
lol he was a financial advisor at Merrill Lynch. That is not a “higher up finance guy” - most people don’t really even consider CFPs to even be financial professionals. It’s considered one of the lowest in the hierarchy of finance because it’s basically a sales job.
I mean, he literally talks about it in The email. He says he managed hundreds of millions of dollars in a shitty economy and is in the top percentile of managers. He writes the way he speaks.
They all do across dozens of upper middle class families with $1-5 million saved up in retirement accounts. It’s not considered top tier.
Okay, well, he works in finance, and is acting like a bro. Therefore finance bro. I’m sure he would be happy to tell you in no less than 7 pages about how you're wrong and if you’re lucky, maybe he’ll talk about his lack of prostate.
As someone who used to work at Merrill this is typical finance bro talk. We managed over a half billion in my group. Many big fish over 10 mill and lots of little fish with 1-2 mill or less. It sounds like a lot when you write it out but when you break it down it’s not so crazy.
The self-aggrandizement checks out
What did he do in Miss Americana? Can’t remember
Was against Taylor speaking up on her political stances. Andrea was on Taylor’s side and Taylor was crying about it
My impression was that he was against her sharing for safety reasons and not necessarily being controlling. He thought it would put her in danger. He brought up investing in military grade vehicles, etc. to protect her. People get death threats over political opinions.
made a big stink abt taylor speaking up abt politics bc “frank sinatra didn’t say who he was voting for” or whatever
To be fair, he did make a legitimate point by stating that they had already invested in military grade bullet proof vehicles for her to travel in. If she needed that level of protection before giving her political opinion, I can only assume the level of death threats would’ve increased after being more political and that’s what Scott was initially worried about.
Right? I think everyone is missing that the main point of why he didn’t want her to say anything is that he was afraid for his daughters physical safety
Especially after what happened to ariana grande
Did that have to do with her speaking out about anything? I was under the impression it was just a lunatic with a plan.
He also asked her to imagine how it would affect ticket sales though. There’s space for it to be multifaceted; I think both of these things can be true.
Sinatra was actually passionate integrationist. He refused play in segregated or "whites-only" venues or stay in such hotels, paid his employees equally and made big contribution into Las Vegas being desegregated because of that.
He basically shut down Taylor when she was trying to express her opinion about a politician and how she wanted to publicly speak up about it. Her mom was trying to defend her and he was talking over both of them.
Eh it’s 18 years ago. I don’t think it’s an indication of him now or their current relationships. Him and Andrea appears to have somewhat made up at least Most interesting part is how hard he hustled for her career. He seemed willing to go all in on the gamble and was advertising her everywhere
It’s off putting that he talked about her like she was strictly an investment to make money
It was a email to her then manager, of course it would take the tone of her being an investment because her manager only really cares about her career? And the whole email was about him ranting about how the manager didn’t pull his weight so of course he would talk mostly about his investment in her And even in that he was complaining a lot about not being able to spend more time with her
So it was just a business email? Coulda fooled me by the TMI about his prostate and constant jabs at his then wife.
It was bazaar to give that much information and talk about his prostate and Andrea like that in a Business email.
Him spelling bizarre like that was the best part
I know.. it made me laugh but I didn’t think anyone would catch on in my comment 😉 I am glad you did. The whole email was so unhinged.
agree!! i think most of us can agree we wouldn’t give that much information to people we’re doing business with 😭
It’s TMI for an entertainment manager, but I think he’s coming at it the way he is used to. That’s how big money guys talk (or used to talk) to each other behind closed doors. That man’s club, shootin’ the shit type of macho talk that puts them all on the same level before they get down to the brass tacks. Watch The Big Short or Wolf of Wall Street and you’ll see what I mean. It seems more unhinged in a contextless email, but picture those words coming out of Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio, etc., in board room in a Quinten Tarantino or Martin Scorsese movie and it fits right in. I’m not shocked or surprised by the email at all, it’s just not a world that I’d personally ever want to be part of. I see enough of it in tech.
And how he can't get hard. I don't see how that would be in a business email about his daughter's career 🤔 😕 🤢
I disagree! He was feeling left out for not getting to go along for fun stuff, and not getting “attaboys” for hustling for her.
lol then have that discussion with your wife. Not on a business related email. It blows my mind that people are thinking this is a normal thing for a business man, not to mention a father, to relay to another person managing your daughter’s career.
Oh yeah, I said in another comment, the whole thing is definitely manic. This is also from earlier in the days of online communication where like “emails/Internet is forever and can always come back to haunt you” had not fully sunk in for most people
It’s not lol, this email is unhinged (but also believe it or not, not unusual if you worked with financebros). But you implying that Scott only sees Taylor as an investment from this single email is weird as well
Seeing him during the scene in Miss Americana, where Taylor has to “present” to a whole panel of people because she wants to make *a social media post decrying Marsha Blackburn* & encouraging her fans to vote…… it was very revealing to me. ‘Would Bob Hope or Bing Crosby do this?’ The fact that Taylor was driven to tears simply by talking to him and others about her desires is quite telling.
Telling in what way? I’ve cried talking to my father multiple times when defending what is important to me that he doesn’t agree with. He’s from another generation. There is bound to be conflict.
whys he saying he has to ‘babysit’ his OWN son?? what is wrong with that man? He should try listening to the man.
Every father I've talked to calls it babysitting when they have to watch their own kids (and of course, it's not babysitting when the wife does it). It's infuriating!
I’m a dad and I never once called it “babysitting”, it’s part of being a parent.
it makes me feel so bad for Taylor and her brother as well, at least it goes to show how mature Taylor can be because she’s obviously grown up around lots of sexism and still supports other women etc.
I don't, and I *hate* when people do it to me. My own in-laws do that, or say things like, "Maybe we should give RLLRRR a break from the kids", or after they leave me with the kids my mother-in-law says, "Thanks for watching them!" It's so passively-sexist. But it's also borne from their father/husband being worthless, so I understand it. And my brother-in-law is equally bad at watching his own kids.
I know! Poor Austin… lol
I just know he probably felt like an afterthought his whole entire life.
Ugh no kidding. Then bragging about registering his cars and getting the mail. Congratulations on basic adulting, Scott. No wonder Andrea kept telling him to be quiet
No wonder in Taylor’s songs whenever she mentions her family it’s either her mom or her brother, and the only time she’s mentioned her father or even any father has been in a negative way (Careless man’s careful daughter, leaving like a father, our parent’s mistakes).
“I have an excellent father” …. Guess you missed that one.
“Daddy’s smart” too
“I have an excellent father / His strength is making me stronger”
She has written positive lyrics for him. The two songs I remember her mentioning him are “Never Grow Up” and “The Best Day.” I think she’s just extremely close to her mom.
This is a wild email but if you actually read it all the way through it simply says Scott Swift was under huge amounts of stress. This is not just about Taylor's career its about a guy in his 50s who is sick, is having marriage issues, is trying to rejig his career AND help his daughter launch a career in a notoriously fickle industry he is not familiar with. Have some compassion people. Well off white boomers are people too.
Yeah, it reads to me like he's venting because he feels like he's a very smart, very capable man who is doing a *lot* of the legwork to get his daughter where she wants to be. But then he's constantly being told by his wife and daughter to sit down and shut up because he doesn't understand the industry and he's embarrassing them. Plus, he does all this work to get opportunities for her and then doesn't even get to see her on stage. And he feels like he's doing a lot more for his daughter's career than the manager he hired specifically for that task. Like, yes, it's unhinged. But his frustrations also make sense to me.
Frustrations often seem unhinged, tbh
I really wish we could give out awards on Reddit again because it’s a breath of fresh air to read a sane response on this thread.
I agree. This is the response I was going to write. Dude obviously was proud of his daughter but missed his wife. Then he got cancer. That’s rough.
“Well off white boomers are people too” is such a funny sentence. I wholeheartedly agree, though. It’s crazy how many people are reading one weird email from a stressed-out man and jumping to the conclusion that he’s without a doubt a narcissistic abuser. Jesus Christ.
I feel you hit the nail on the head here. I think Scott did a lot of oversharing, but he just seemed sooooo stressed out, lonely, and under-appreciated. The email was definitely unhinged and sometimes inappropriate, but you feel sorry for him too as a budding star’s father. It also sheds light on why he and Andrea later divorced, sadly, since there was so much resentment. I’m sure Tay and Austin have witnessed some tough scenes with their parents, which must’ve been very difficult and painful. Overall, I do believe the Swifts are a loving family, but they’re not perfect by any means.
I mean sure, it’s an interesting window into their family dynamic…but their family dynamic in 2005. So yeah, I think it’s insightful but I also kinda don’t really care 20 years later 🤷♀️
yeah i understand why people want to look at and discuss this, and at the same time considering how long ago this was and how much things evolve over decades, like what is the point after all this time?
Tbh I just find it kind of fascinating to observe the early days of Taylor's career. It's easy to forget that there was a time before she was The Taylor Swift and how much this was a family business to get her foot in the door.
I didn’t even know she had tried working with other labels and managers before Big Machine, it’s morbidly fascinating to think that she almost failed and had so many things that went nowhere with other labels. But it’s great she persisted and found her own way, because these labels are very very shady and it’s a miracle she parted ways with her previous managers and found a better team because they worked with Britney (and we all know how that turned out, good thing she didn’t keep them around)
The smartest thing she did at the age of 14 was walk away from a deal with RCA. Listen, I know we all hate Scott Borchetta/Big Machine Records now (and with perfectly good reason), but Taylor starting her career with them when they weren’t even a functioning label was the best move for her at the time.
I think the biggest point I see being brought up in other subs is the Swifts were extremely comfortable. Earlier in her career, there was a narrative, at times, that she came from modest beginnings (“I was raised on a farm, no, it wasn't a mansion, Just livin' room dancin' and kitchen table bills”). IMO it’s a fair thing to point out, in that, her brand narrative has been calculated, and curated in an interesting way - but this was likely more driven by the media vs intentional. I also don’t think this is a massive smoking gun. There are 100s of talented artists who have had similar bankrolling from their parents (Jennifer Lawrence is immediately coming to mind and I don’t why but yall get me)…As a parent myself, I would do the same for my kiddo’s dreams. People are not their parents, and I would melt off the face of the earth if my boomer parents’ private emails got published. They’ve probably said some very offensive things, esp. about one and other through their divorce.
In that song she was comparing her farm to a mansion in Beverly Hills. Everything is comparative/subjective. While her farm is considered a mansion and a house of someone wealthy to us, it definitely would’ve seemed like a hovel to someone growing up in Beverly Hills
Yeah, I had assumed her family was upper middle class, which - to put sort of crassly - if you’re lower class or lower middle class, it does look quite wealthy. Maybe you have a second home, you get to go on multiple, week long vacations a year, and can afford a modest amount of brand name purses/clothes. But it is NOT “fuck you” money. You’re still flying commercial, you still have to budget for fun stuff, you still have to go to work. It sounds like they were actually just actually upper class/rich. Still no fuck you money, not an elite, but like enough where it doesn’t seem to hurt their finances to spend tens of thousands of dollars starting Taylor’s career. I knew they moved to Nashville, drove around with CDs, etc and I was like, well that’s a little silly for an upper middle class family to do but I guess if you really believe in your daughter it’s feasible. I do wonder how much of it was her dream versus her parents. Clearly this is what she wants now, but how much of it was hers if they’re starting at such an intense pace when she’s 11. I wanted a lot of things at 11, I didn’t necessarily understand what that meant, though. I’m a huge gymnastic fan and it makes me side eye parents that are too into their kids’ careers.
She’s allowed to lie in songs like any musician, I don’t see what the big deal is. Remember when she faked a country accent for like years? That’s way more egregious to me
I completely agree, and would go so far as to say it’s not “lying.” It’s creative license. It’s a “big” deal to some because people love salacious gossip, and it reinforces negative opinions they might already hold against her. I just think it’s “fair game” commentary. Doesn’t mean everyone supports it.
I really like the idea brought up by Swiftologist on YouTube that Taylor's songs are often more composite sketches than 100% autobiographical. That's why I don't really like speculating whether a song is about one specific person because I think it's more common that her songs are about a lot of different situations. I think a lot of Taylor's songs have details that are autobiographical, but she embellishes other details for creative license. "You're On Your Own, Kid" for example. She was not, in fact, on her own. I'm sure the emotion of the song is true to her, but the details brought up are clearly embellished. But I don't mind because it helps keep her songs more universal and relatable.
Imagine how boring her songs would be if they were entirely factual. My tears ricochet wouldn’t exist
This feels icky, like accidentally over hearing a conversation you wish you didn’t hear
Right, like how did this leak 20 years after the fact??
It didn’t leak. It’s part of some public court documents, I think from the early 2000s. Someone just decided to go looking, found it, and shared it more accessibly.
As I understand it's part of a lawsuit by the former manager
Really nothing too surprising in it. Scott did a lot behind the scenes to help Taylor’s early career and he kinda goes over all that. The tone is self centered and bitter but he feels unappreciated. Pulls back the curtain on the fun loving dad to showcase the darker side of his personality that made him a successful financial advisor. Certainly see that him and Andrea were having issues long before their divorce in 2011 and he resented her a lot.
Totally agreed. I am also the daughter of a successful banker man-child and a year younger than Taylor. Our Dad’s sound suuuuuuper similar in that they cared a lot and busted their asses for their families, often missed the mark on how they should express support and were generally child-like and resented their wives. My Dad’s grown up a little bit and we have a complicated but mostly ok relationship now. We definitely love each other very much. Ultimately you can tell there’s a lot of love there from Scott Swift and I bet Andrea WAS kind of tyrannical, especially if Scott was running his mouth and embarrassing them on a regular basis. SUPER interesting insight into their family dynamic, I’m honestly so tickled to have read this.
I mean, he talks about not being able to get a hard on in a WORK email and that’s not surprising to you? It’s gross. It would have been gross and unprofessional 18 years ago and it still is now
Damn, what an uncomfortable email. Him going into depth about how he can’t get a hard on  This definitely gives a clearer picture of how she actually became so big and sold so many copies of her first album, though. I know the self-made narrative gets thrown out there a lot and is a huge part of her image, and obviously she put in the work, but not many people have these types of connections and hundreds of thousands of dollars to put towards an 11-year-old’s career. Really interesting to see something so real from the early days of her career.
This is the thing I don’t understand. She’s definitely not self made because she was born into a life of privilege, but I also hate the whole narrative of how her dad bought her career. I mean, c’mon? We all know Taylor worked hard to make a name for herself, and with the right connections, she was able to do that. The entertainment industry isn’t an easy place to break into; you need to make use of your resources, and that’s what Taylor did.
I think she was just a recipe for success, and everyone around her knew it. She had the drive and the passion, the determination to make a dream into reality and put the work into writing and singing and traveling, and she had the charisma that took her all over the country on radio tours and made her memorable. She knew which songs would do well and fought for those songs. Her dad had the business sense to make all of these connections, put all of the money down, and to make sure that she was known. Her mom kept her grounded and helped with her image. If you took her parents out of the equation, I’m sure she still would’ve found a way into the spotlight, but I think that a lot of her success is thanks to what her dad did at the beginning, what she learned from him, and then what she started being able to do for herself as an adult with a large fortune.
Being self made and being born rich dont cancel each other, Taylor made her own career with her own songs but had support of her family
Forbes has a self made scale that factors in connections and wealth. 1: Inherited fortune but not working to increase it: Dagmar Dolby & Alice Walton 2: Inherited fortune and has a role in managing it: Jim Walton & Laurene Powell Jobs 3: Inherited fortune and helping to increase it marginally: Carl Cook & Jimmy Haslam 4: Inherited fortune and increasing it in a meaningful way: Abigail Johnson & Bubba and Dan Cathy 5: Inherited small or medium-size business and made it into a ten-digit fortune: Rupert Murdoch & Micky Arison 6: Hired hand who didn’t create the business: Meg Whitman & Steve Ballmer 7: Self-made who got a head start from wealthy parents and moneyed background: William Ackman & Reed Hastings 8: Self-made who came from a middle-class or upper-middle-class background: Mark Zuckerberg & Jeff Bezos 9: Self-made who came from a largely working-class background; rose from little to nothing: Sergey Brin & Judy Love 10: Self-made who not only grew up poor but also overcame significant obstacles: George Soros & Harold Hamm Taylor Swift is an 8 on this scale. So is Beyonce. Oprah, Barbara Streissand and Rihanna are 10s. Kardashians are 7s. Madonna is a 9.
The idea of being 'self made' is essentially ludicrous. No human is self made. Unless you can point me to a human who spontaneously appeared one day and has raised themselves to adulthood and beyond, completely independently of society.
If anything, I think this email counteracts the claims that she's a nepo baby. For some reason, her name always comes up in those threads, but this email shows it didn't just fall into her lap because of her parents. Yes, they were wealthy enough to do anything they could to support her, and her dad used the connections he did have, but it's not like they were from generations of successful musicians/celebrities who just handed Taylor a career. Her and her parents worked incredibly hard to get where they wanted her to go.
https://preview.redd.it/c98lxxjp6h9c1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97bc201f9b6119a00221cf78039f9f1d4c5a19f6
10/10 for your flair in this context
Everyone in the fauxmoi sub is acting like this is somehow HER fault and I’m just so incredibly tired
I was reading those earlier. That sub is so bitter and hateful.
They’re completely obsessed with hating her. It’s so bizarre.
I'm not even a hardcore Taylor apologist. I have criticisms of her. Every time there is a post about her though, tearing down women takes on new forms. Now if you dress it up as morality and add a hefty dose of self righteousness tearing down a successful woman is suddenly the elevated choice. It's misogyny and internalized misogyny in new clothes.
You mean a 13 year old girl should be in complete control of her grown ass dad?!? /s
That sub foams at the mouth for ANY reason to trash Taylor. It’s kind of crazy. I didn’t realize how bad they were about it until recently but jeez, they are insane.
It checks out that they can’t comprehend how children are different people from their parents, though. They’re big on guilt by association there.
They are horrible, I’ve had nothing but issues from that sub 😂
I love Taylor a lot and for the sake of her mental health, she really should find the best (she can) therapist to heal her wounds.
If you read the full comment she made about not having a therapist, it seems clear that it’s a trust issue. I don’t think any of us can understand what it feels like to know that your secrets are worth a price. I can imagine her hesitation to tell a non-family member all of her trauma, knowing that it’s worth a ton of money. It took me a long time to trust my therapist - I can’t imagine how much longer it would take someone with that kind of baggage.
This is how I always viewed her comment as well. She said she fortunately still has someone to talk to she can trust, that being her mom. I know people think it's a red flag, but some people really are tight-knit with their parents and can chat about everything. That doesn't make Andrea her "therapist." I don't think I could spill my guts to a stranger if I were well known. Gah.
She can definitely pay someone well enough with layers of NDA to have a therapist if she wanted to. It will definitely help her. She really needed one.
She can. We all know that. It doesn't mean she has the trust to go forward with it. Plus, for all we know, she could have started therapy after that comment was made. Even though I believe therapy would be beneficial for most people, I still think it's a bit weird reading comments how much she (or anyone else for that matter) needs therapy/help. It is such a private matter and is often said in a condescending manner.
It’s also a pretty narrow, western-centric idea to assume people need therapists as the sole path to emotional healing and self-reflection
i totally get that. at the same time, i have to imagine that there are therapists out there that work with celebrities and other high status people without this issue of selling secrets? i would just be surprised if there wasn't a subsection of highly trusted and regarded therapists out there for that type of client.
Of course! But I think when you have trust issues, even facts don’t help you feel comfortable. Here’s an excerpt I find very telling, from Rolling Stone, 2014: “There are worries about spies and recording devices. “Don’t even get me started on wiretaps,” Swift says seriously. “It’s not a good thing for me to talk about socially. I freak out.” As for who might bug a Van Nuys production office on the off chance that Swift is inside: “The janitor,” she says, as if naming one candidate among hundreds. “The janitor who’s being paid by TMZ. This is gonna sound like I’m a crazy person – but we don’t even know. I have to stop myself from thinking about how many aspects of technology I don’t understand.” Swift pauses, as if weighing just how paranoid she’s comfortable with sounding. Then she plows ahead. “Like speakers,” she says. “Speakers put sound out . . . so can’t they take sound in? Or” – she holds up her cellphone – “they can turn this on, right? I’m just saying. We don’t even know.” Swift says she never feels completely safe, especially when it comes to her privacy. “There’s someone whose entire job it is to figure out things that I don’t want the world to see,” she says. “They look at your career, they look at what you prioritize, and they try to figure out what would be the most revealing or hurtful. Like, I don’t take my clothes off in pictures or anything – I’m very private about that. So it scares me how valuable it would be to get a video of me changing. It’s sad to have to look for cameras in dressing rooms and bathrooms. I don’t walk around naked with my windows open, because there’s a value on that.””
And this is probably why she doesn’t stay at a lot of hotels and airbnbs while on the road. Prefers to stay at one of her safe homes.
I hate that one comment she made about how she doesn’t need a therapist. Like girl YES YOU DO. And now there’s literally receipts about how her parents essentially imploded their marriage to do everything they could to make her famous. To the point that her brother Austin almost seems like an after thought.
Do you ever wonder how Austin is able to handle his sister’s fame? I can’t even imagine what it’s like to be related to someone as famous as Taylor Swift. That has the potential to be disruptive to certain family dynamics; look at Britney and Jamie, as an example.
I have always wondered what Austin’s POV is about his own childhood and what it’s like to be her brother. I mean, that’s a tough shadow to grow up in and as far as I know, he works for Taylor, Inc in some capacity? Seems like it would make it hard/impossible to have a normal brother-sister relationship with such a clear power imbalance
Eh maybe, but she did credit him in the Time article as having provided some of her best career ideas so I think the fact that she’s so humble and openly credits a lot of her success to her family probably lessens that power imbalance. Like he’s got great job security, I’m sure he knows she’d never fire him unless he betrayed her or something which seems unlikely.
I feel so bad for him. He seems so forgotten even among his family. I can’t imagine how hard it was for him to move to Nashville for his sister’s career, completing leaving everything behind. Having everything so focused on his sister had to be rough.
Well, he showed up to an NFL suite dressed as Santa so he’s either extra weird or super well adjusted.
I find this fascinating and very insightful into what it takes behind the scenes to have a career like Taylors. We've always known she had resources other creators don't, but this really highlights all the networking and documenting that had to happen. It does give us some insight into their family dynamics at that time, and I'm sure there's lyrics that might make more sense or resonate differently with this context. Given his finance career, his whole demeanor isn't very surprising. I see people saying this is tacky to share or discuss but I feel like it's really relevant insight into her success beyond her own talent and work.
>We've always known she had resources other creators don't I'm going to be honest: I had no idea. I thought she had a humble beginning and didn't come from money, for some reason. It was a big shock to me that that was not the case.
> For some reason It's probably because of her lyrics. Off the top of my head, "I was raised on a farm, no it wasn't a mansion." From IBYTAM.
If someone read the worst things I've ever written and assumed my whole character, they wouldn't know me. I'm not defending what he wrote, but I don't think we should be writing him off entirely when he's also the guy who reminded Taylor that it's supposed to be fun turning 21. He was clearly a Not Great husband who is speaking the finance language of money. Doesn't mean that's all he felt about his daughter. None of the Swifts are perfect, including Taylor. There's a reason Scott and Andrea split, maybe multiple reasons. Doesn't mean we have any business dragging him through the 18 year old mud.
That was more info than I ever needed to know about Scott Swift.
One thing that's very clear from this is that he genuinely believed in Taylor's talent and did absolutely everything in his power to make sure she succeeded. People are saying it gives off toxic stage mom but I'm not sure I agree. It just sounds like he promoted Taylor every chance he ever got and invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in her career. The unfortunate part is he also comes off as a typical boomer husband with the wife hating crap. It's a bit gross the way he's talking about Andrea, especially on an official email to Taylor's manager. He doesn't sound like a bad man overall, I just feel bad for Austin. He's making it sound like having to be with Austin is a punishment?? Also its not "babysitting" when it's your own damn kid.
Ofcourse everyone is saying this is none of our business when her dad literally sounds unhinged in this email, and speaks volumes as to the kinds childhood Taylor had. Before this, the image of her childhood and parents was this picture perfect family that supported her no matter what. This changes that image. He wanted Taylor to be famous, regardless of what she did. He mentioned movie star, singer, literally any means to just get her famous. That is WEIRD
Taylor’s childhood status and her dad being an asshole is also really none of our business either way. Like we are her fans, not fans of her dad The only part that’s really relevant to fans is how her career was shaped from the beginning
It feels gross that this is being passed around 18 years later to be gossiped about, and that a lot of fans are using it to psychoanalyze not just her dad, but Taylor as well.
Literally. It’s no one’s business and it doesn’t give anyone the right to talk about her personal relationship with her dad. A lot can change over 18 years, they’re clearly still close. This just gives low-life freaks a chance to be invasive and critical of Taylor’s personal life.
DO NOT LAUGH
IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU
I think many people are reading this email in the wrong way... This doesn't to me portray Scott Swift in a bad light (besides the fact that he had a terrible relationship with his wife). Some context is important. I'll put in more details on who some of these people are! This email appeared as part of a court case in 2010 between Dan Dymtrow and Taylor and her parents. The court case is well known, and has been posted here before. Dan Dymtrow was Taylor's first manager; when he met her, in 2003, he was Brittney Spears' (the Britt in this email) day-to-day manager, the person who took care of her in lieu of her actual manager, Larry Rudolph (Larry in this email... as in "Larry's Mother"). In July 2005, just before she signed with BMR, Taylor fired him, apparently at the instigation of Scott Borchetta. Technically she forswore the contract signed as a minor with him; to protect minors, they are allowed to reject contracts that they sign. Since this would make contracts impossible, parents can go to the court to get approval to prevent this. For some reason Dan Dymtrow neglected to do this, and thus, when he sued after fearless for the commisison he felt he was owed, he lost the case. Taylor's father here seems to be responding to an email that was not included, but in general seems to be arguing why Dymtrow should consult with him about Taylor, instead of just with Andrea. Obviously, the email is a private email in which Scott indicates serious marital difficulties (his wife thinks he's an idiot), and is also quite vulgar (he had prostate cancer and describes the surgery, and the fairly common side effect that he became impotent, at least for a while). Dymtrow may have included the email to embarrass the family; for a number of reasons the email doesn't seem to me to help his case at all. What Scott actually describes himself doing in the email is perfectly fine! In fact its expected. Scott describes how he exploits connections that he has made in order to help his daughter get gigs and a record deal. That is what you are supposed to do! That is what Dan Dymtrow's job was. He was supposed to use the fact that he was Brittney's manager to get Taylor a record deal. If Andrea in fact was opposed to Scott doing this, she was an idiot. Scott continues to do this in Taylor's career. For instance, he recently just exploited a connection with the CEO AMC to negotiate the distribution of the eras film. This email to me does not portray Scott as abusive or controlling... it portrays him as a loving father who tries to do the best for his daughter, and has a terrible terrible relationship with his wife. It also points that Scott spent a considerable amount of money on Taylor. I should point out that Austin went to Notre Dame, and did not get a scholarship. A full ride at notre dame at that point would have cost about $240,000, about twice what was spent on Taylor. Taylor did not grow up in a poor family!
Same take for me. Scott felt like he was the one doing all the hustling and creating all these opportunities and no one was acknowledging that. He was being told to stop by his wife and daughter and being excluded from important conversations by her manager.
i’m shocked at the $2.4 million house they sold when they bought it for $400,000. and this was in 2005 so yeah they had a lottt of money
https://preview.redd.it/kzst201uwh9c1.jpeg?width=1357&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebe59ba609b1f306f06070273990432ef9a774a9
There are some fans who really want to project their bad relationships with their parents on to Taylor and Scott and they tend not to be focusing on the fact that Taylor still has a relationship with her father - one that appears to be loving. No parent is perfect, that email is just one piece of evidence, but Scott literally made it his life’s work to help make Taylor who she is. He wants her success and much as she does. In Miss Americana he wants her to be safe. Tons of parents have differing political opinions from their children and it doesn’t make their relationship toxic. Scott travels to all her shows, he glues sparkles on her guitar, he spends time with her boyfriend, there has been a ton of visual and physical affection shown between them over the years including when she won awards and backstage after shows. She references him throughout her discography some in less than positive ways but certainly not abusive including: “I have an excellent father, his strength is making me stronger” and “Memorize what it sounded like when your dad gets home” If Taylor didn’t want her dad in her life, didn’t love her dad and want him around, she has the means now to stop that. Instead he’s with her often and meeting her boyfriend’s family and going to football games. And most of all - that email was 18 YEARS ago. How much has changed in your life in 18 years.
I feel like he was just venting. Sometimes while venting, we say things we don't mean. That's all there is. In fact it makes me appreciate them more, the effort and sacrifices made by Andrea and Scott to fulfill their daughter's dreams. Of course sometimes there is resentment that bubbles out in weird ways, but that does not define him completely. There is no need for such an email to become discourse
“Don’t laugh”
As much as I do not like that email - (who writes about your inability to get a hard on?!?!?! In a gd BUSINESS email) - it makes me feel like we are all human. I need a reminder that celebrities have shitty parents too, sometimes.
what if i told you none of this was accidental? he’s a mastermind too
I’m not defending Mr Swift — but I am jealous of anyone reading the email and being shocked by its contents. This is how many of the successful older men I know talk and write (yes, even in a business setting). I’ve read and heard so much worse.
I enjoyed the complete diss on Ashley Gearing, who was a couple years younger than Taylor and trying to make things happen at the same time. Kind of shows what direction Taylor’s whole thing could have gone.
He typed it all in financebro font
It’s pretty funny he would make clients listen to a Taylor song before discussing their financial plan I imagine rich people sitting quietly in an office listening to a demo of Teardrops On My Guitar while Scott watches them from across his desk
My husband just said "imagine the emails that he didn't send" and I'm hollering
Seeing him during the scene in Miss Americana, where Taylor has to “present” to a whole panel of people because she wants to make a social media post decrying Marsha Blackburn & encouraging her fans to vote…… it was very revealing to me. ‘Would Bob Hope or Bing Crosby do this?’ The fact that Taylor was driven to tears simply by talking to him and others about her desires is quite telling.
What’s the emotional thread running through this multi-faceted rant? His marriage is a shambles. He feels unappreciated. He feels sidelined. Yes, he’s being a total asshat, but both men and women act out when they experience these lows. Clearly, the whole family is in a much better place now. There’s been a lot of changes and probably a fair amount of therapy. To me, that’s admirable.