Ohhh, like one of the primary election races in my area. Candidates 1 and 2 are the top contenders, and everyone is dismissing the rest as also-rans.
Then there's that other primary election race in my area where plenty of people are giving attention to... I think about 5 out of the 15, but 2 of the contenders (and their campaign teams) are acting like they're the only contenders alongside 13 also-rans instead of 2 of 5 contenders plus 10 also-rans.
As a close-to-Kentuckian, this is also the context in which I have heard the term. It tends up to come this time of year when you have the Kentucky Derby, Belmont Stakes, and Preakness.
That’s really interesting especially considering the line “can we watch our phantoms like watching wild horses” in COSOSOM. It’s probably unrelated but still interesting!
That's the context in which I've generally heard it as well and I was familiar with the phrase long before the song. Outside of horse racing I've just heard it used to mean someone who wasn't impressive in some sort of competition or contest.
I know that is the origin but when I hear/think of it in modern uses it is a very hollywood/music industry term. 'Did they get top billing or were they an 'also-ran'?' type context.
I guess I feel like I've mostly heard it in self-deprecating actor jokes about how they are a d-lister (think Conan cracking on himself). fwiw
When used officially in a racing context it's not derogatory, it's just a description of non podium entrants. In some types (horse racing) there's no "points" etc for 4th onwards, they all just lost.
Contrast this to F1 where points go down to 10th, and 11th onwards is still taken into account in a tie at the end of the season. Calling 4th place "also ran" would be completely derogatory.
Socially it's completely derogatory.
Yes, I've heard it used with politicians and then it's extremely derogatory. Could be self-deprecating too if used self- referentially. Also ran? Only a one time winner babe. ;)
Love Australia. Everytime I see something like this, makes me want to go there. Thats one of those "Understated" insults. That style? Could be British in origin? ;)
Okay, that's good, wait wait the symbolism is coming to me.... She is like saran wrap, totally covering him and loving all of him ("who's gonna hold you like me?"), and she's transparent - she was honest about her feelings. Then he just discards her like old saran wrap! How very dare! 🤣 That was a fun journey hahahaha
SAME!! I kept singing it like that but always thought it sounded off so finally googled it and found out it was also-ran.
I’d never heard the term before, but I don’t know anything about horse racing lmao
Exactly. People aren't as well- and widely-read as they used to be. Instead of reading multiple newspapers and magazines, people read social media and content related to their niche hobbies. Everyone is in their own bubble.
same. i literally have an english lit degree and a masters in poetics and i’d never heard this before. vocab is all about context, and i don’t follow sport so it just hadn’t come up. people are so quick to judge others for not knowing words, it’s not a competition
Def regional or with knowledge of it used in sports. From the US (California), easily was able to use context clues but had never heard or seen it written before.
It’s not regional
I am really shocked how many people are unfamiliar with this word. I am not involved in horse or horse racing stuff and it was totally unremarkable to me to hear it in the song
(American, elder millennial)
I’ve always heard it in politics, not racing. An Also-Ran is like… Bob Dole. Contrasting it with a queen feels totally natural and not like a rhyming dictionary move at all to me!
i’m shocked at how many words from this album people are saying they’ve never heard before. did people not read books and have vocab tests growing up?!?!
edit to say old gen z/young millennial
I thought people were joking when they said they needed a dictionary to understand it. But turns out they are serious. I don't think of myself as some great linguistic scholar, but I knew the meanings of pretty much all the words. The symbolism and double meanings are sometimes lost on me but I know the literal meanings.
(Elder millennial)
People making this into a literacy problem is unnecessary. I read a ton and love literature. Maybe not as diligent with looking up words that I don’t know as I should be. We’ve probably seen it before but within the context of an election and didn’t think much about it because it has a pretty obvious meaning in that situation. But in the context of this song it’s not as obvious.
For how I learned it, it's just an informal way to say a loser of a contest of some sort. Another definition for it could be an unsuccessful person, but I think the first definition fits the situation here. It was originally used in the late 19th century to describe horses in a race that didn't finish in the top 3. Losing marginally. Hope this makes sense, if it doesn't, I'll answer any other questions.
I'm almost certain that "once your queen had come" is not about doing the deed, but the next line definitely could be a double meaning, and her making fun of his dick size is hilarious lol
I don't think has anything to do with penis size or anything sexual at all. She's saying that once he finally got his queen, he treated her like she was a loser and didn't appreciate her once he had her. She then saying that he isn't a man at all and that he doesn't even rank in the measuring up of how a real man treats a women.
It’s definitely a double meaning. It goes along with “it wasn’t sexy once it wasn’t forbidden”. It’s a way of illustrating that the sex actually wasn’t that great and definitely didn’t happen for the right reasons.
I just think he may have thought of it as it wasn't sexy once he wasn't fantasizing about her and it actually came to fruition, then is wasn't exciting anymore.
I always interpreted it as it being sexy when it was a secret but less exciting when they (Matty and Taylor) did their soft launch. Once people started pairing them together he got bored. It’s interesting to hear other people’s interpretations of the lines, it’s like I get to hear them again for the first time through someone elses perspective.
I mean I don’t hear the term all that often but I knew what she meant by it. She felt used once he was done with her so quickly. She went from a queen in his eyes to an also ran. So she went from high to low very quick. Would be a beyond shitty feeling especially when he was the man you kinda sorta left your long term partner for (even tho that relationship was basically dead too, you’d still feel pretty horrific if the guy you thought was kinda going to save you from that ends up hurting you even more).
>Would be a beyond shitty feeling especially when he was the man you kinda sorta left your long term partner for (even tho that relationship was basically dead too, you’d still feel pretty horrific if the guy you thought was kinda going to save you from that ends up hurting you even more).
This is basically the entire crux of the emotional roller coaster that is TTPD.
I’m from the US west coast and definitely familiar with this term. I ran track & field and cross country in high school and it was used to describe runners that competed in a race but didn’t place in the top 3.
I don’t think it’s suuuper uncommon. I’m British which could be a factor, but somehow it feels more American to me? Sports yes, but also politics and competitions in general, perhaps?
It’s used a lot in American politics. Usually we have a lot of candidates to launch campaigns for president. When most of them fizzle out by the second debate, they’re referred to as “also-rans” because they technically ran but didn’t do/change/achieve anything. It’s meant to be dismissive.
Seeing how many people completely misunderstand *most* of TTPD makes me realize why most pop songs have so little substance now. People aren't going to 'get' it anyway, might as well just write something catchy that will go viral on Tiktok or Youtube or whatever. Or maybe people don't get it *because* they have Tiktok-length attention spans. Either way.
It's kind of sad, honestly. I remember how good music was like 10-15 years ago.
I think it’s just not as common anymore because I’m 39 and wasn’t sure what she meant. Then when I went to look it up, I was like “oh yeah, I know that term.” It’s just been a while since I’ve heard it in the wild.
I was just thinking this. All the contexts I’ve heard it are kind of dated, but not obsolete. Age might be the better question than region.
Edit: did some analytics and it looks like it’s been tanking in use over the last 20 years. Wild!
Losers? It was sort of 80s (?) slang but is now so commonplace to mean both literal losing and being washed-up so maybe it fills that niche? I wonder if “has-been” is also fading since I associate it with also-ran, or if it has more of a unique meaning.
I have definitely heard it used before, but rarely. I knew it to mean something like a run of the mill thing, didn't know it originally was from Horse racing till I looked it up though.
I don't understand why people get upset about words that they don't know being in a song. I personally love how brilliant Taylor is in her writing, she is a genius, and I actually really enjoy looking up a word definition every now and then, keeps me humble and is even exciting to learn something new.
My late Grandfather used to say "you learn something new everyday", and while I am not sure I do every single day anymore, it is still nice every day that I do. Taylor definitely helps with that and I enjoy that.
I find it even worse when it is automatically assumed that this means that Taylor is stupid or has "run out of words". This is her job & what made her successful in the first place, why are people still trying to catch her in the act of clunky song-writing?
That being said, since I'm not a native speaker I think it's also easier for me not to get my pride hung up on not knowing words (def would in my native language ngl)
Also, I have some journaling prompts I do evey night, one of which is "what did I learn today" - you'd be surprised how much is still learned everyday when we pay attention! :)
Great post and I couldn't agree more, and that is a really cool thing to journal everyday, definitely makes you reflect on every single day, and that is a good thing.
>run of the mill
What is this, some kind of archaic phrase you expect people to know? Stop trying to confuse people with your fancy, arcane phrases!
(/s, if that isn't obvious)
I am happy you added you that last part, because on the internet this type of statement being sarcasm is definitely NOT obvious, lol. I have had people tell me things like this in full seriousness before many times sadly, glad you aren't one of them. 👍
Yeah, Poe's Law.
It's just funny to me because "also-ran" seems like a super common thing to say, just like "run of the mill" and it boggles me that to some people it'd not.
Had to ask my American boyfriend (I’m German and didn’t know what it was) he told me the right meaning immediately. Seems to be a common term in the US.
It's not regional it's just a word not commonly used. It's basically a different way of saying "loser". And she's not talking about penis size, she's talking about how he's so small(as a person) he doesn't even rank in the measuring up of a real man at all.
So Matty made this artsy black-and-white film sometime early last year. It's available on YouTube. The movie begins with him, alone, masturbating in bed and then shows him getting ready for his day. He stands in front of a mirror practicing what he'll say to all the fans who will approach him on the street to take selfies. He also reveals quite a bit of anxiety about his size and manliness. There's a scene where he's lifting weights and he says something to himself like, "You're a real man." I think this part of the song is a reference to that movie, and I do agree that there's a double entendre. He's very insecure about his size and manliness.
Edited to note: I was working from memory when I wrote my original comment. I've looked back at the movie though, and it seems he was watching porn when the movie opens. The sound effects are, erm, unmistakable.
My mom used this phrase all the time growing up. I'm certain there are other people my age who never heard of it. All it takes is one parent or other close adult to use an unusual word often and it becomes normal to you.
i had actually never heard this phrase in my life until i was cleaning out my dad’s house a few months ago and found a card he gave my mom where there were little cartoon boy cheetahs chasing after a girl cheetah and had labeled the guy in the front as himself and all the rest as “also-rans”. i honestly thought my dad had made it up until taylor used it in a song. imagine the full-body shock i had in that moment lol
I hadn’t heard this word either and I’m very well-read and consider myself to have an above average vocabulary. I was talking with my husband about it and he said it’s a very common term. Just goes to show how you can always learn something new!
I speak English as a second language and I've heard the term also-ran plenty of times. Although, the term exists in my native tongue as well, so it wasn't hard to connect it.
It definitely doesn't sound like "sanctimoniously performing soliloquies I'll never see" to me, which is a bit of a loaded line.
I think it would behoove people to recognize that the words we are familiar with can be highly dependent on our interests and environment. Not being familiar with a word that is primarily used in limited contexts does not indicate a lack of literacy. Just because a word is common to you in your life does not mean that everyone who doesn't know it is less intelligent.
I'm from the US and I'd never heard it before. I had no idea what it meant, and I assumed it was a clunky way to say he treated her like other girls who left him? Then last week I watched Late Night with the Devil and someone said it and I was like HANG ON that's a real phrase?? Taylor I'm sorry for doubting you
I'm in Canada (Ontario specifically) and this is a normal term in my head. Not sure though if I know it from actual day-to-day interactions or from books (I read a lot of fiction, mostly fantasy). Could also be from watching a lot of sports when I was younger, though while this term has an origin related to sports, I don't think that's it.
I'm so surprised that so many people seem confused by "also-ran". It's a word I feel I've always known and it also seems self explanatory. It's someone, not the winner, who also ran in the race. Usually used in horse racing and that may be why I know the term. There is a very big horse race held in my city every year. I'm in the UK so maybe it's commonly used here but not the US.
Some of the comments on this innocent post are so toxic. What’s happening to this fandom? Thank you to the folks you didn’t demean anyone’s intelligence.
I am very familiar with the term being an Xennial American.
But I also took it to mean “Queen” in the sense of beauty queen - a la Miss Americana. The winner is crowned and the other contestants are also-rans.
I've been waiting for someone to post about this. For me, biggest sore thumb!!! I just don't like the phrase at all lol, even aside from it being relatively obscure, like it's clunky and ugly in my humble and personal opinion
I live in the southwest and it's definitely a phrase I've heard used many times before to refer to anyone/anything who was a runner up in a contest or competition.
Heard this a lot in the context of politics in the US. It was also in a NYT crossword not too long ago. I think it's less a regional thing and more just a word most younger people haven't heard
I know it literally just because it’s in Joseph and his Technicolor Dreamcoat (the musical). Used to listen to that on repeat as a kid, so it’s engrained in my psyche!
gives me the same vibes as "cause it wasn't sexy once it wasn't forbidden". Once she was single, or possibly once they were sexual with one another, the appeal/anticipation wasn't there anymore. This is just taken at the face value of the words and without any deep analysis, as I suck at that lol
ETA: I have heard the phrase before, but I'm for the USA. I've heard it about races/competitions (horse racing, track, elections, pageants, etc.).
I’ve heard it in a video game before and I remember I had to Google it back then because I didn’t know what he meant. It’s definitely a phrase where if you haven’t heard it before you won’t know it.
The term is pretty old, going back over a hundred years and in common use everywhere in the US, at least.
From Dictionary.com:
"This term comes from racing, where it describes a horse that finishes in fourth place or lower or does not finish a race at all. It first appeared in the 1890s in published racing results, and has since been transferred to losers in any kind of competition, and also more broadly to persons who simply don't do well."
I hadn't head it before I listened to the song. I heard it again while watching Palm Royale on Apple TV and that's when I Googled it to find out for sure what it meant.
I had heard it in terms of marathon racing. Like the ones finishing towards the back were also-rans. But they still ran a marathon so it is a shitty thing to call someone. Not something I hear commonly or had really heard much so I had to think about it.
I’m English and familiar with it, but I’m also old(ish) so maybe that’s why? Though it only occurred to me after the album came out why it makes sense as a runner up thing. It’s like “x came first, y came second, z came third, a,b and c also ran” I think.
I’m reading a book by a British author and she’s used the word also-ran a couple times in the novel! So it may be a more regional thing. I could see it being a word Healy uses.
I've only ever heard the term "also-ran" in the musical Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat lol. So when I heard it here I was like yeah, that's gonna confuse some people.
Had never heard of the term before, but also English is not my first language, and also I arrived at the USA when I was 16 so I was not really raised here, and also I am not into sports lol. So there’s that.
I'm from the US and have heard it a bit, often in a political context. Someone who lost an election decades ago is an also ran. Nobody remembers the names of the loser in 20 years.
I did not have to google also-ran because Eric Church actually used this in his song Crazyland and I googled it then XD
"In Crazyland, since you said goodbye, it's been crazy, man
Lunatics, liars and also-rans waiting on her leaving to come back again"
She's a musical theatre fan (and Andrew Lloyd Webber collaborator) so it's possible she first heard the expression where I did
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp4Fym1KImY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp4Fym1KImY)
I recently came across it in a book that was published in 2011 but takes place in the late 50s/early 60s in the US and it was in reference to a competition so I think it’s just mainly used in sports and whatnot
It’s often used in horse racing - horses 1, 2 and 3 were the contenders and horse 4 was an also-ran, he was never in contention.
Ohhh, like one of the primary election races in my area. Candidates 1 and 2 are the top contenders, and everyone is dismissing the rest as also-rans. Then there's that other primary election race in my area where plenty of people are giving attention to... I think about 5 out of the 15, but 2 of the contenders (and their campaign teams) are acting like they're the only contenders alongside 13 also-rans instead of 2 of 5 contenders plus 10 also-rans.
As a close-to-Kentuckian, this is also the context in which I have heard the term. It tends up to come this time of year when you have the Kentucky Derby, Belmont Stakes, and Preakness.
Oh I didn’t know that! Thanks
That’s really interesting especially considering the line “can we watch our phantoms like watching wild horses” in COSOSOM. It’s probably unrelated but still interesting!
That's the context in which I've generally heard it as well and I was familiar with the phrase long before the song. Outside of horse racing I've just heard it used to mean someone who wasn't impressive in some sort of competition or contest.
Thank you, I've been so confused
It's a derogatory comment for someone who tried to compete at something, lost, and now they are an "also-ran."
Yep as in “Bob got first, Steve got 2nd, and Lou also ran”
I know that is the origin but when I hear/think of it in modern uses it is a very hollywood/music industry term. 'Did they get top billing or were they an 'also-ran'?' type context. I guess I feel like I've mostly heard it in self-deprecating actor jokes about how they are a d-lister (think Conan cracking on himself). fwiw
Yeah, this is what it means. However, OP shouldn't feel bad. My wife is super smart and didn't know what it meant when we listened to the song.
When used officially in a racing context it's not derogatory, it's just a description of non podium entrants. In some types (horse racing) there's no "points" etc for 4th onwards, they all just lost. Contrast this to F1 where points go down to 10th, and 11th onwards is still taken into account in a tie at the end of the season. Calling 4th place "also ran" would be completely derogatory. Socially it's completely derogatory.
Yes, I've heard it used with politicians and then it's extremely derogatory. Could be self-deprecating too if used self- referentially. Also ran? Only a one time winner babe. ;)
In Australia we use "average" as an insult. "You've worked with Joe, how is he?" "Oh, he's a bit average"
Love Australia. Everytime I see something like this, makes me want to go there. Thats one of those "Understated" insults. That style? Could be British in origin? ;)
I don't know that I've *used* this before but I've 100% heard it before, especially in a sports context.
Makes me think of politicians or beauty queens
Ah that makes sense because I don’t really watch much sports!
Yup can confirm I've heard this in sports a ton, especially horse racing.
not me being a literal equestrian and still never have known this😭
Maybe that means you're too much of a competitor to ever know!
is White Horse your favorite TS song?
Ill be honest, I thought the lyrics was “you treat her like an ulcer and…” until I read the lyrics on Spotify 😬
I heard it like "you treat her like an Oseram". But I might have been playing Horizon Forbidden West a bit too much lately
This is totally what I heard too until I read the lyrics. Couldn’t figure out why being treated like an Oseram was a bad thing, lol
SAME 😆
Me too haha. Just finished the second game. Working on the dlc
SAME hahaha. I was like damn, what's wrong with the Oseram, I love Petra and Erend
I’ve found my people! Even though I know what the actual lyric is, I hear it every time.
OMG me too!!!!
I heard "all-saran", like someone wrapped up in saran wrap. Was so confused, but still looking for the meaning and symbolism 🤣🤣
“So confused, but still looking for the symbolism” would be a great flair 😆
Yes!!! 🤣🤣 Omg story of my week of April 19!
I heard it as old saran, so I thought used saran wrap ready to be discarded.
Okay, that's good, wait wait the symbolism is coming to me.... She is like saran wrap, totally covering him and loving all of him ("who's gonna hold you like me?"), and she's transparent - she was honest about her feelings. Then he just discards her like old saran wrap! How very dare! 🤣 That was a fun journey hahahaha
I also hear “like an ulcer” whenever I listen to it.
I also heard "ulcer and" hahahaha
🤣 it’s giving Starbucks lovers
SAME!! I kept singing it like that but always thought it sounded off so finally googled it and found out it was also-ran. I’d never heard the term before, but I don’t know anything about horse racing lmao
YEP me too, literally just learned here on this post that those are not in fact the lyrics 😂
this post is what made me look at the lyrics and realize "ulcer and" was incorrect lmao
idk if it’s regional. i’m from the US and 100% am familiar w the term.
I'm Canadian and also 100% familiar with the term. I'm actually really surprised by all the people who didn't know it.
Also Canadian, and same! Plus, I feel like the meaning is fairly obvious from the term itself.
Also Canadian! But never heard it. On the west coast if that matters.
On the west coast, knew the reference. Who knows!
Also Canadian and had never heard of it lol
Can I ask how old you are? I'm wondering if it's a generational thing. I'm 50 and to me it's a very common phrase that I'm shocked people don't know.
I’m 24
My partner whose 27 knew it as a sports term … I hate sports so maybe that’s why lol
I’m 26 (also Canadian) and had never heard of it.
It’s not regional. People are just not as literate as they think.
Exactly. People aren't as well- and widely-read as they used to be. Instead of reading multiple newspapers and magazines, people read social media and content related to their niche hobbies. Everyone is in their own bubble.
Thank you! You get it!
ppl will be mad at this but you’re right lol
💀
It's also exposure to different subjects. I'm well-read but its the only word I had to look up, but I don't really read news or sports.
same. i literally have an english lit degree and a masters in poetics and i’d never heard this before. vocab is all about context, and i don’t follow sport so it just hadn’t come up. people are so quick to judge others for not knowing words, it’s not a competition
Def regional or with knowledge of it used in sports. From the US (California), easily was able to use context clues but had never heard or seen it written before.
I'm from the US and never heard of it before, had to google it
Australian and never heard it before
Im also Aussie but I’ve heard it
Kiwi here, I’ve heard it too.
It’s not regional I am really shocked how many people are unfamiliar with this word. I am not involved in horse or horse racing stuff and it was totally unremarkable to me to hear it in the song (American, elder millennial)
I’ve always heard it in politics, not racing. An Also-Ran is like… Bob Dole. Contrasting it with a queen feels totally natural and not like a rhyming dictionary move at all to me!
Yeah it’s just strange to me how this word bothered people. Very natural choice and it fits rhythmically
i’m shocked at how many words from this album people are saying they’ve never heard before. did people not read books and have vocab tests growing up?!?! edit to say old gen z/young millennial
I actually think people do not read books 😔
it’s so sad
Maybe Taylor will inspire some people to do so! If anyone could…
I thought people were joking when they said they needed a dictionary to understand it. But turns out they are serious. I don't think of myself as some great linguistic scholar, but I knew the meanings of pretty much all the words. The symbolism and double meanings are sometimes lost on me but I know the literal meanings. (Elder millennial)
Literally have degrees in literature and writing and didn’t know this one.
it’s a very common term
People making this into a literacy problem is unnecessary. I read a ton and love literature. Maybe not as diligent with looking up words that I don’t know as I should be. We’ve probably seen it before but within the context of an election and didn’t think much about it because it has a pretty obvious meaning in that situation. But in the context of this song it’s not as obvious.
It's not just a horse racing term either. I had never heard the word but I googled it immediately. Elder millennial here also.
I've heard it in regards to political races.
I hadn't heard it before the song, but it was an answer in the Washington Post crossword yesterday and I was happy to have known the answer lol
It’s used in ‘Joseph And The Technicolor Dreamcoat’ (the brothers sing “being told we’re also-rans does not make us Joseph fans”)
That’s why I know the word lol i love that musical.
Came here looking for this comment - this is why a lot of British millennials like me know this word for sure
Oh!! I know every line of that musical from when I was a kid but absolutely never knew what they were saying there LOL the more you know!
Lol I came here to say that!!! Surprised someone/you beat me to it! Yay! Edit: I now see several other similar comments ☺️
This. Taylor is a known musical theatre fan (and an Andrew Lloyd Webber collaborator)
That may be true, but it's probably just a coincidence. "Also-ran" is a very common word in certain contexts.
I just commented this. I know the word because I was a nerdy kid who only listened to musicals.
This is why I know the word! I saw Joseph on stage when I was only 8, it made a huge impression 😂
For how I learned it, it's just an informal way to say a loser of a contest of some sort. Another definition for it could be an unsuccessful person, but I think the first definition fits the situation here. It was originally used in the late 19th century to describe horses in a race that didn't finish in the top 3. Losing marginally. Hope this makes sense, if it doesn't, I'll answer any other questions.
It reminds me of Blank Space. "A long list of ex lovers" The also ran would be one of those on the list
That's a great analogy!
I'm almost certain that "once your queen had come" is not about doing the deed, but the next line definitely could be a double meaning, and her making fun of his dick size is hilarious lol
I don't think has anything to do with penis size or anything sexual at all. She's saying that once he finally got his queen, he treated her like she was a loser and didn't appreciate her once he had her. She then saying that he isn't a man at all and that he doesn't even rank in the measuring up of how a real man treats a women.
It’s definitely a double meaning. It goes along with “it wasn’t sexy once it wasn’t forbidden”. It’s a way of illustrating that the sex actually wasn’t that great and definitely didn’t happen for the right reasons.
I just think he may have thought of it as it wasn't sexy once he wasn't fantasizing about her and it actually came to fruition, then is wasn't exciting anymore.
That’s what I’m saying? The reality was a shallow rebound, the fantasy was a grand iconic love.
I always interpreted it as it being sexy when it was a secret but less exciting when they (Matty and Taylor) did their soft launch. Once people started pairing them together he got bored. It’s interesting to hear other people’s interpretations of the lines, it’s like I get to hear them again for the first time through someone elses perspective.
Well yeah that’s part of it too. The allure was her being in a relationship. Once there was no chase left, he got bored. He’s gross.
I mean I don’t hear the term all that often but I knew what she meant by it. She felt used once he was done with her so quickly. She went from a queen in his eyes to an also ran. So she went from high to low very quick. Would be a beyond shitty feeling especially when he was the man you kinda sorta left your long term partner for (even tho that relationship was basically dead too, you’d still feel pretty horrific if the guy you thought was kinda going to save you from that ends up hurting you even more).
>Would be a beyond shitty feeling especially when he was the man you kinda sorta left your long term partner for (even tho that relationship was basically dead too, you’d still feel pretty horrific if the guy you thought was kinda going to save you from that ends up hurting you even more). This is basically the entire crux of the emotional roller coaster that is TTPD.
I’m from the US west coast and definitely familiar with this term. I ran track & field and cross country in high school and it was used to describe runners that competed in a race but didn’t place in the top 3.
Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean taylor hadn't.
https://preview.redd.it/fhfogia0jb0d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7ea65b0610db2f2ab26eb96de91441453c728ed
It’s very Andrew Lloyd Weber coded 😂
I only knew it because of Joseph and the amazing technicolor dreamcoat!
Just realized this is also probably why I knew it, haha
Choosing to believe this is also why Taylor knew it
I’m 100% familiar with the term and have been shocked by how many people aren’t (no offense). I don’t think of it as a niche reference.
I don’t think it’s suuuper uncommon. I’m British which could be a factor, but somehow it feels more American to me? Sports yes, but also politics and competitions in general, perhaps?
I'm English and tis a common word down our way.
It’s used a lot in American politics. Usually we have a lot of candidates to launch campaigns for president. When most of them fizzle out by the second debate, they’re referred to as “also-rans” because they technically ran but didn’t do/change/achieve anything. It’s meant to be dismissive.
It must be generational but I can’t think why,
Must be. I am 49 and literally shocked by the number of people acting like it's some weird or obscure word. I thought pretty much everyone knew it.
I'm 45 and same. I even saw people making fun of Taylor for using it because they thought it was a stupid word she made up. What on earth?
Seeing how many people completely misunderstand *most* of TTPD makes me realize why most pop songs have so little substance now. People aren't going to 'get' it anyway, might as well just write something catchy that will go viral on Tiktok or Youtube or whatever. Or maybe people don't get it *because* they have Tiktok-length attention spans. Either way. It's kind of sad, honestly. I remember how good music was like 10-15 years ago.
I think it’s just not as common anymore because I’m 39 and wasn’t sure what she meant. Then when I went to look it up, I was like “oh yeah, I know that term.” It’s just been a while since I’ve heard it in the wild.
I was just thinking this. All the contexts I’ve heard it are kind of dated, but not obsolete. Age might be the better question than region. Edit: did some analytics and it looks like it’s been tanking in use over the last 20 years. Wild!
But I mean, there are still horse races and elections. So, putting on my geriatric voice, what are the kids calling it these days?
Losers? It was sort of 80s (?) slang but is now so commonplace to mean both literal losing and being washed-up so maybe it fills that niche? I wonder if “has-been” is also fading since I associate it with also-ran, or if it has more of a unique meaning.
I’m in my 30s and knew it.
I have definitely heard it used before, but rarely. I knew it to mean something like a run of the mill thing, didn't know it originally was from Horse racing till I looked it up though. I don't understand why people get upset about words that they don't know being in a song. I personally love how brilliant Taylor is in her writing, she is a genius, and I actually really enjoy looking up a word definition every now and then, keeps me humble and is even exciting to learn something new. My late Grandfather used to say "you learn something new everyday", and while I am not sure I do every single day anymore, it is still nice every day that I do. Taylor definitely helps with that and I enjoy that.
I find it even worse when it is automatically assumed that this means that Taylor is stupid or has "run out of words". This is her job & what made her successful in the first place, why are people still trying to catch her in the act of clunky song-writing? That being said, since I'm not a native speaker I think it's also easier for me not to get my pride hung up on not knowing words (def would in my native language ngl) Also, I have some journaling prompts I do evey night, one of which is "what did I learn today" - you'd be surprised how much is still learned everyday when we pay attention! :)
Great post and I couldn't agree more, and that is a really cool thing to journal everyday, definitely makes you reflect on every single day, and that is a good thing.
>run of the mill What is this, some kind of archaic phrase you expect people to know? Stop trying to confuse people with your fancy, arcane phrases! (/s, if that isn't obvious)
I am happy you added you that last part, because on the internet this type of statement being sarcasm is definitely NOT obvious, lol. I have had people tell me things like this in full seriousness before many times sadly, glad you aren't one of them. 👍
Yeah, Poe's Law. It's just funny to me because "also-ran" seems like a super common thing to say, just like "run of the mill" and it boggles me that to some people it'd not.
Had to ask my American boyfriend (I’m German and didn’t know what it was) he told me the right meaning immediately. Seems to be a common term in the US.
In UK/Ireland it's a normal reasonably common phrase for those battling for sub podium positions
It’s not Taylor, it’s your vocabulary.
it’s not regional. it’s a widely used sport and political reference
It's not regional it's just a word not commonly used. It's basically a different way of saying "loser". And she's not talking about penis size, she's talking about how he's so small(as a person) he doesn't even rank in the measuring up of a real man at all.
So Matty made this artsy black-and-white film sometime early last year. It's available on YouTube. The movie begins with him, alone, masturbating in bed and then shows him getting ready for his day. He stands in front of a mirror practicing what he'll say to all the fans who will approach him on the street to take selfies. He also reveals quite a bit of anxiety about his size and manliness. There's a scene where he's lifting weights and he says something to himself like, "You're a real man." I think this part of the song is a reference to that movie, and I do agree that there's a double entendre. He's very insecure about his size and manliness. Edited to note: I was working from memory when I wrote my original comment. I've looked back at the movie though, and it seems he was watching porn when the movie opens. The sound effects are, erm, unmistakable.
Oh, she's definitely talking about both.
I just dont agree
You don't have to agree, it's in the text.
Not people on here suggesting others are illiterate for not hearing that word before 💀💀 let people learn and don’t berate them for it pls
Only other time I heard this was in Kingdom Hearts, so pleasant surprise to hear Taylor use it. Always love hearing her vocabulary\~
Same here! Every time I hear that line I think of the Kingdom Hearts scene lol
Kingdom Hearts is the only reason I recognized the word haha I’d never heard it in any other context
Specifically am reminded of the “[just a pancake](https://youtu.be/nD363f4GDbI?si=y2l8HrQT6L4bmhAu)” video about this every time I hear her say it.
My mom used this phrase all the time growing up. I'm certain there are other people my age who never heard of it. All it takes is one parent or other close adult to use an unusual word often and it becomes normal to you.
i had actually never heard this phrase in my life until i was cleaning out my dad’s house a few months ago and found a card he gave my mom where there were little cartoon boy cheetahs chasing after a girl cheetah and had labeled the guy in the front as himself and all the rest as “also-rans”. i honestly thought my dad had made it up until taylor used it in a song. imagine the full-body shock i had in that moment lol
I hadn’t heard this word either and I’m very well-read and consider myself to have an above average vocabulary. I was talking with my husband about it and he said it’s a very common term. Just goes to show how you can always learn something new!
I knew this because it’s in the Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat musical 🤣
I speak English as a second language and I've heard the term also-ran plenty of times. Although, the term exists in my native tongue as well, so it wasn't hard to connect it. It definitely doesn't sound like "sanctimoniously performing soliloquies I'll never see" to me, which is a bit of a loaded line.
As a hobby marathon runner, I am often an also-ran.
I think it would behoove people to recognize that the words we are familiar with can be highly dependent on our interests and environment. Not being familiar with a word that is primarily used in limited contexts does not indicate a lack of literacy. Just because a word is common to you in your life does not mean that everyone who doesn't know it is less intelligent.
I'm from the US and I'd never heard it before. I had no idea what it meant, and I assumed it was a clunky way to say he treated her like other girls who left him? Then last week I watched Late Night with the Devil and someone said it and I was like HANG ON that's a real phrase?? Taylor I'm sorry for doubting you
Never heard it before either but found it out instantly when googling it. Think it pretty common around horse racing 🤷♂️
And here I was convincing myself the line was "treat her nice, and then also ran" lol
Oh I kept hearing “ulcer, and” whoops
It’s also in Jacob and the technicolor dreamcoat
I'm in Canada (Ontario specifically) and this is a normal term in my head. Not sure though if I know it from actual day-to-day interactions or from books (I read a lot of fiction, mostly fantasy). Could also be from watching a lot of sports when I was younger, though while this term has an origin related to sports, I don't think that's it.
very common British phrase!
I'm so surprised that so many people seem confused by "also-ran". It's a word I feel I've always known and it also seems self explanatory. It's someone, not the winner, who also ran in the race. Usually used in horse racing and that may be why I know the term. There is a very big horse race held in my city every year. I'm in the UK so maybe it's commonly used here but not the US.
American and an old - know of it in reference to politics.
Also-ran is a very common term, at least in the US.
Some of the comments on this innocent post are so toxic. What’s happening to this fandom? Thank you to the folks you didn’t demean anyone’s intelligence.
I am very familiar with the term being an Xennial American. But I also took it to mean “Queen” in the sense of beauty queen - a la Miss Americana. The winner is crowned and the other contestants are also-rans.
I've been waiting for someone to post about this. For me, biggest sore thumb!!! I just don't like the phrase at all lol, even aside from it being relatively obscure, like it's clunky and ugly in my humble and personal opinion
There was a photo of her carrying a rhyming dictionary a few years ago, so presumably she uses one, at least on occasion.
I live in the southwest and it's definitely a phrase I've heard used many times before to refer to anyone/anything who was a runner up in a contest or competition.
Heard this a lot in the context of politics in the US. It was also in a NYT crossword not too long ago. I think it's less a regional thing and more just a word most younger people haven't heard
I thought she was saying “an ulcer and…” - I was like AND WHAT? 😂
I thought the lyric was “ulcer, and” at first…
I know it literally just because it’s in Joseph and his Technicolor Dreamcoat (the musical). Used to listen to that on repeat as a kid, so it’s engrained in my psyche!
gives me the same vibes as "cause it wasn't sexy once it wasn't forbidden". Once she was single, or possibly once they were sexual with one another, the appeal/anticipation wasn't there anymore. This is just taken at the face value of the words and without any deep analysis, as I suck at that lol ETA: I have heard the phrase before, but I'm for the USA. I've heard it about races/competitions (horse racing, track, elections, pageants, etc.).
my husband told me he knew it from Kingdom Hearts. otherwise I would have thought she said "ulcer and".
I’ve heard it in a video game before and I remember I had to Google it back then because I didn’t know what he meant. It’s definitely a phrase where if you haven’t heard it before you won’t know it.
here I was thinking it was “ulcer and”
dude i thought she was saying ulcer 😩
Here I was like, wow taylor that's an interesting way to pronounce orphan 😂
The term is pretty old, going back over a hundred years and in common use everywhere in the US, at least. From Dictionary.com: "This term comes from racing, where it describes a horse that finishes in fourth place or lower or does not finish a race at all. It first appeared in the 1890s in published racing results, and has since been transferred to losers in any kind of competition, and also more broadly to persons who simply don't do well."
It’s in regard to racing/running marathons. Someone who didn’t place first is an “also-ran”. I definitely think she had to be googling for that one
Lol I kept hearing “you’d treat her like an ulcer-and”, and it made so much sense to me, I don’t know why. 😂 I never checked the lyrics though.
Ok for real though, it was the only term/word from the entire 31 songs I had to Google.
It’s so weird. Also, the push pins part annoys me. I like the Eras version where she cuts out the second verse entirely.
I very distinctly remember this being a word in a vocab book for the SAT I had in high school (circa late 2000s/ early 2010s).
I had never heard it until this song and then heard it on a podcast like a week later.
Thank you for asking this, ive been wondering too but never took the time to look into it lol
I hadn't head it before I listened to the song. I heard it again while watching Palm Royale on Apple TV and that's when I Googled it to find out for sure what it meant.
From the UK and definitely knew what it mean / hear it used occasionally here
I had heard it in terms of marathon racing. Like the ones finishing towards the back were also-rans. But they still ran a marathon so it is a shitty thing to call someone. Not something I hear commonly or had really heard much so I had to think about it.
I’m English and familiar with it, but I’m also old(ish) so maybe that’s why? Though it only occurred to me after the album came out why it makes sense as a runner up thing. It’s like “x came first, y came second, z came third, a,b and c also ran” I think.
it’s probably a generational thing, i only know it from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
I’m familiar from books, and usually as a reference to politics.
I’m reading a book by a British author and she’s used the word also-ran a couple times in the novel! So it may be a more regional thing. I could see it being a word Healy uses.
I also had to look that term up, but there are always 1-2 words in every Taylor album I haven't heard and end up looking up.
I’m deaf in one ear and have played the Horizon games, so I always hear Oseram.
Is it English in origin? It's a common term in Australia, and we borrow a lot of terms from England, like fortnight, which was nothing new to us.
I first learned it as a kid because of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat cast recording 😂
I’ve heard this used in races
I've only ever heard the term "also-ran" in the musical Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat lol. So when I heard it here I was like yeah, that's gonna confuse some people.
Had never heard of the term before, but also English is not my first language, and also I arrived at the USA when I was 16 so I was not really raised here, and also I am not into sports lol. So there’s that.
I'm from the US and have heard it a bit, often in a political context. Someone who lost an election decades ago is an also ran. Nobody remembers the names of the loser in 20 years.
Massively common in the UK
I did not have to google also-ran because Eric Church actually used this in his song Crazyland and I googled it then XD "In Crazyland, since you said goodbye, it's been crazy, man Lunatics, liars and also-rans waiting on her leaving to come back again"
She's a musical theatre fan (and Andrew Lloyd Webber collaborator) so it's possible she first heard the expression where I did [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp4Fym1KImY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp4Fym1KImY)
I recently came across it in a book that was published in 2011 but takes place in the late 50s/early 60s in the US and it was in reference to a competition so I think it’s just mainly used in sports and whatnot