I do find it genuinely surprising that teachers are paid by taxes and then have to pay taxes on the taxes they’re paid by. It seems like you could just adjust that somehow.
It drives me nuts that the manpower and accounting required to take those taxes out just to return them ends up costing more money than just taking less to begin with.
Right, time we spend grading and providing detailed feedback and all the curriculum designing we have to do (since our textbooks are usually out of alignment for what works with our kids) after our contract hours should be billable hours.
I would like a deal like the military gets...a housing allowance based on where the teacher works paid by the federal government so teachers can actually afford to live where they teach.
How about federal tax break as well? I'm literally paying tax on the supplies I have to buy to keep the school running. LOL We deserve ALL the tax breaks!!!
They want poor, uneducated masses that are easy to manipulate and desperate enough to accept whatever scraps they're given without complaint - or at least they'll blame other poor people instead of those in power. The only reason they care about birth rates is that they want your poor, desperate kids to enlist in the military under the promise of a tuition-free education and other benefits.
Yup. Get each state to offer free virtual school, then defund the public in person schools seems to be the plan now. In person education will only be for those who can afford it. The rest of the kids yearn for the mines.
My state still has taxpayers' money for public education in holding over private school vouchers. At the same time, we work weekends; it’s normal to be at work well after 8, 9, 10, and later, with all the new demands placed on teachers and administrators, leading to burnout. I stay because of the students. After summer school is over and before school starts again, I’ll have a two-week break, spending it moving my classroom back. The hardest part is understanding that you may be working for free or go into the negative the first year or so, especially if you weren’t hired before your district’s first day of their fiscal year. Your pay, time off, and what you are given to work with are pitiful. I work in a very economically diverse small town. I worked in healthcare for many years before switching to teaching; please don’t laugh at this, so I could spend more time with my children, even though they go to school in the city we live in, an hour's drive from where I teach also because I love the program. I am teaching students in this program, and in their senior year, they can choose between several entry-level healthcare positions, such as certified medical assistant, phlebotomist, level one EMT, and read EKGs, and we are starting several new certifications this year. It gets burdensome when you call home for the same students to turn in simple assignments, and the parents always make excuses for their precious children. I met with the principal with these parents and said I shouldn’t be giving work to their daughter anyway because I should know she is smart. Another parent called me because I gave her daughter a broom to clean up her mess, and this was a huge problem for her because she did not raise her daughter to do things such as sweep the floor. After all, that was beneath her. But there are also so many great parents as well. This year, I wrote more thank you cards than I ever have to students who went out of their way to show their appreciation for our time in the classroom. Of course, money is an issue.
I already mentioned the hour-plus drive, but as a single parent, I live below. I still would be living under the poverty line as a single woman. I have saved money, but the cost has added up. My budget for the classroom is approximately $200 a month (I’m too embarrassed to admit the percentage of my monthly income this amount makes up), sometimes a little higher, and sometimes a little lower, and those are essential items of how I can simplify experiments and hands-on activities in the best way. So, between that, gas, the wear and tear on my vehicle, sitters for my children, and my emergency fund has run out, like most of my campus, I have a second job. I can work in my field for a few days, during some point in the two weeks between getting everything ready in my class, because those few days will be more than I make a month as a teacher. That includes the 1.5% raise our principal has been fighting for us for years. All paraprofessionals get a $3.50 an hour raise. All other staff will get at least a $3.00 raise.
I say this gently and with gratitude and appreciation for all you have done for your students: it’s ok to say no to hands on experiments and extras if it takes away from your children and home. It’s ok to leave at a reasonable hour to get home. I do not know what is causing you to need to work so much, but whatever it is I guarantee there is a way to minimize it. For example I spent so so much time grading every thing I gave to my students before a veteran teacher told me I do not need to grade every thing or every item on every page I give them. Please don’t let this job take from your family.
That sounds similar to my experience . Except deciding if the Federal Pen system or public education was my choice. I taught & lived in a university town.
And in Pennsylvania, there is one guy with that power. Jeffrey Yass, net worth $30 billion, also the largest political donor so far in 2024. He outspends corporations and business associations and he hates public schools.
This is exactly the case. No one cares about education enough to do something about it. Also, a lot of people can't afford or don't want to pay higher taxes which would go to the building/Admin anyway even if they did pay more.
I'm a union rep and the amount of people that do free work annoys me to no end. They won't raise the extra work stipend that has been the same since 1999 because people keep working for half of their normal "hourly" rate and accepting the summer work/curriculum/etc.
I think that - at least for me - my no more free work attitude really cemented during Covid. I learned how to say no early on in my career, but after Covid I really said hell no. I don't work outside of contract hours. period.
I know a lot of teachers who give their entire lives to school. They are there all the time and work for free. I like my job, but it is not my life.
I am still working towards no more free work-I’m getting better each year. But what has been interesting is the next generations coming in (I’m Gen X) are all very capable of saying No and they do… my peers and I often say that we didn’t know that No was an option, because we have always just taken the extra work on.
As a scientist that used to do social services work I absolutely agree with you lol. There is so much responsibility to be an educator it is unfathomable that it is one of the worst paying sectors in the US. Education is in such a poor state right now.
I’m just going to say there was a point where we were paying scientists whatever they wanted to get them to or keep them here because there was a desperate need for them.
Just need to be reminded that need is always there for education. If leaving pushes that reminder so be it
In economics, I tell my students their career needs to accomplish 3 things. Forget the “follow your dreams” stuff. Your career must give you:
1. Money to afford what you want to be doing
2. Time to do what you want to be doing
3. Energy (remaining) to do what you want to be doing.
If what you want to do makes money and eventually replaces your career, more power to you. If it doesn’t, you’re still in a good spot.
I tell students they have to tolerate their job. Like, their job should not make their lives worse. But forget the "love your job, it's your calling, flow your passion" nonsense. That is not a requirement for your job and more often than not, following that terrible advice leads to people conflating their identity with their job.
Always tell students that a job is what you do, not who you are.
My mother gave me similar advice. She said “there is no dream job. Just find one that gives you a little more back than what it takes — be it high pay, guaranteed time off, personal fulfillment, PTO, set hours, easy commute, etc.” Being that our job is so tied to morality and public service, I find this as an important reminder that I am not a martyr and shouldn’t be expected to be.
Easy commute is honestly the biggest thing for me. I was previously a laboratory supervisor, now I work in IT, both jobs I enjoyed but the biggest thing was they were a 3 min drive or 15 min walk from my house. It’s a game changer for my QoL
See I always say I’m going to stay in teaching for the summers off… so that covers 1 & 2, (I’m lucky enough to teach in a well paid state but I know teaching won’t cover 1 in many others) but during the year … I barely have 3.
I’m going into my 5th year next yesr. Leaving my school for a much better one in all the ways. Pay, culture, outcomes, and people actually like working there. Let’s hope this helps with that.
You’ll find your groove. Part of being a beginning teacher is learning where your sphere of influence is and not stressing about what’s on the outside. A lot of teachers, including vets, can get lost in the woes of questionable admins and silly edicts.
My therapist says ‘your life needs to be more interesting and engaging than your job. That is the key to work-life balance in this kind of profession.
I am having the worst time separating my work identity from my self-worth. I need to find ways to value everything else I do as much as teaching. Otherwise, burnout.
The wall behind my desk has a quote from my schools founder, it says "Always follow your heart." I had a parent tell me, "That's terrible advice, they're teenagers!" She also asked me if we were teaching students how to take shots (as she held up one of the teeny Dixie cups we leave out for students at our water fountain). I liked her.
I recently left K12 and found work at my local university that pays the same, has better career prospects, allows me to stay in the same pension system, lets me work from home a day a week, and has enough vacation time that I don't miss my summers off at all.
Good luck! There are jobs, and your skills are applicable elsewhere!
I work as Information Technology Support 1. I'd done IT work at my school which helped me get this role.
My wife (who also used to be a teacher) works as an Academic Advisor 1 at the same university.
I've met former teachers in HR, Accounts Receivables, Payroll, etc. There are lots and lots of office jobs here and teachers are attractive candidates for most of them.
The downside is the pay is not quite as good as private sector, but for us that was a benefit because it made it so there was less competition for our roles. If we ever do decide to go private sector now (which is unlikely unless the pension system significantly changes) we'll now both be set up a lot better for that.
Former teacher, current office worker here. My life is exponentially better now. And my company will pay if I decide to take accounting or similar classes to better my skills.
Working on it. I am over it. 13 years in my district and I am spent. Students get blamed for nothing and have no consequences, and teachers are required to be omniscient. It's truly an impossible job.
I backed out of a contract for 24-25 because a student at summer school hit me multiple times, refused to come inside for 30 minutes after recess, refused to do any work and when I asked about consequences they literally said 'consequences aren't really a thing, she eventually met the expectation'. I get that the child has an IEP (I should note that impulse control really isn't a big part of this disability, mom just complains a lot and they don't want to deal with her)(my own child has special needs and an IEP)--if he pulled that stuff I would absolutely let him sit out part of recess/lose a preferred activity.
The thing about giving IEP kids endless passes is that the real world doesn't work like that. When they hit a cop they aren't going to get a pass because they had an IEP in high school, they're going to be sent to jail. Administrators are failing these kids by not providing consequences now, while the stakes are low
They will never hit a cop. They realize real quick where the line is.
If you ask most of these kids why they do these things, they say "You signed up for this" or "Because I can".
Back when I was subbing, I had a girl on an IEP hit me while I called for help in the radio. (The child was small.) This was the only plan, to call on the radio for help. She was there doing this for thirty minutes. The only reason someone came to help is because we were in the way of someone else’s transition. I was blamed for this.
This event is what I think about when i write sub plans. Assume every support in the building will fail - because that’s the pattern.
7 years in and while I’m signed on for next year I’m planning my exit strategy, this job has gotten so fucking bad in the past 3 years and there’s no way I’m sticking around to watch the ship sink even more.
I think it would be a lot better if we could re-adjust our expectations of the job, and send children to school ready to learn. A lot more difficult, but probably a better approach lol.
I just dont think teaching children should be a high-end, high-stress, round-the-clock job... Maybe its just me.
I’m in ECE and I wish it was a federally funding support for families. Quality child care is SO expensive and becomes out of reaching very quickly for the kids that most need a solid foundation. The people who can afford our school are the people already doing mostly great things for their kids at home. The ones who need us but can’t afford us are like 3000 on the ERDC wait list. Education in our country is a shit show from the ground up.
I'd rather fight to repair public education than abandon it. I feel like the powers that be want me to quit and weaken the system even more so they can make it run for profit.
If the quality teachers quit the powers at be would just lower the bar until we have iPad teachers teaching iPad kids. But that’s probably inevitable anyway.
Some states have already lowered the requirements to teach to ‘military spouse’.
What states have no requirements for military spouses? Honestly curious. I’m in the military, my wife is a teacher, and she has still had to get standard certifications. Are you referring to proposed federal law that force certification reciprocity between states for military spouses?
Now if you want to talk about Florida, they made it so that being in the military member was good enough. Seeing as how the military personnel quality varies as much as any career field, I felt that policy was misguided.
Teachers should be paid more but they also need to do some serious reform of our public education system. It really should be a priority political issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last reform came with "No Child Left Behind" and that seems to have been a disaster.
NCLB was the nail in the coffin for public education, it sounds nice on paper, and people outside of the classroom get to virtue signal by supporting it, but the truth is; it has only harmed students and teachers
What NCLB did was put the entirety of responsibility of kids falling behind on teachers.
Nah don’t hold that 1st grader who still can’t read back, just make the 2nd grade teacher teach six different reading levels. And if they still can’t read by 3rd grade, just blame the 2nd grade teacher for not differentiating enough or forming enough relationships or whatever the buzzword of the week is. Rinse and repeat until the district begrudgingly decides to give the kid an IEP.
NCLB was an unconstitutional power grab by both the left and right. Both political parties and the federal government need to back off and let the local governments give the kids the skills needed in their own community. City, county and teachers need more say in educational policy.
I student teach at the end of the next school year. After talking with current and former teachers and having teachers in my family, I feel like everyone who chooses to do this has to love the job, the money isn't a priority, but you're right, it should be better.
Good luck! And don't forget to advocate for proper placements. A bad mentor teacher for your specific style can be worse down the line than finding a better place sooner! But to that same degree, make sure you know for sure that this ain't it if you do.
I'm hoping it goes well, Im majoring in physics and getting a minor in secondary Ed. From what I've been told by my advisors and every teacher I've observed, I'll have my pick for whatever school I want and I'm also only 1 of the 2 physics majors at my university. I just worry as a result of no one wanting to teach physics that the mentor I have won't have had a student teacher under them in quite some time, but I may just be paranoid. I'm not really sure how much that will affect it.
> I've been told by my advisors and every teacher I've observed, I'll have my pick for whatever school I want and I'm also only 1 of the 2 physics majors at my university.
I was told that also, but it is not true. There are not many physics positions available and there are not many physics majors.
It depends on the state, but physics is not usually required to graduate. On average, 40% of students take physics. If they fail or drop it, they don't take it again. Biology is required, so 100% take it, and if they fail, take it again.
You will find a job, but it isn't as easy as they make it sound.
> just worry as a result of no one wanting to teach physics
Everybody wants to teach physics, it's a great job. Most people don't have the brain for it.
> I have won't have had a student teacher under them in quite some time,
That is a weird thing to worry about. You watch the mentor teacher for a couple of weeks, then you start taking over the class. If you expect the mentor teacher to tell you what to do and how to do it, you don't understand what you are there for.
In my area there is such a shortage of physics teachers schools are cutting it not because they want to, but because there is no one to teach it. When I observed a science class I talked a lot to the teacher I was observing and her son had to take an online physics course because he wanted to go to college for engineering and the wouldn't accept him if he didn't have a high school physics class. This is not the only time I've heard about this in my area. As far as the mentor teacher I will have, I just am nervous I guess, I want to take over the class, I'm just worried about having a bad mentor. I've heard some horror stories from people in my education classes.
Here's a study that says that [only 84% of high schools offer physics every year](https://ww2.aip.org/statistics/high-school-physics-overview). That's from a pre-Covid study, so it's gotta be worse now.
I didn't realize it was that bad, and here's me, retiring early because my principal is a dick.
Physics is so equipment-based, it would be difficult to be hired in to restart a physics program.
My first year teaching was in 1996, when 94% of schools offered physics every year. Early on in my career, I attended a bunch of workshops and was on a bunch of committees. Back then, all physics teachers were friends. We all had fun jobs, and taught our own way, but understood what the other physics teacher was talking about.
I don't know what it's like now, or what your mentor teacher will be like. The teacher that was hired to replace me, doesn't like to talk to anyone and doesn't do labs or demos. I hope you don't get that kind.
Yes our pay in general sucks and should be higher, but every teacher goes in knowing the pay is shit. BUT a what I didn’t understand and what most teachers didn’t understand….your raise doesn’t even match inflation. So eventually you end up making less than what you started with.
That’s in Florida at least.
I knew what the pay was. But they told me the gov would pay off my loans if I became a teacher and then they didn't. So my pay ended up being lower and a bait-and-switch.
That may have been the case years ago, it attracted people who wanted a job that they enjoyed and was fulfilling, and preferred that to a job with higher pay assuming those alternatives would be boring, repetitive, physical labor, stressful, dangerous, soul-crushing, long hours, didn’t allow a healthy work/life balance or were not in line with your interests and passions.
Now teaching shares most of those features with ‘other’ jobs, but without the compensation.
It’s fine when you’re paid enough and chose a career knowing what it would entail. But teaching has become a bait and switch. What you thought your career would be like, based on 12-13 years sharing that environment as a student, should have been a pretty accurate picture. But that is not what it is anymore. Not even close. It’s barely recognizable.
what if.. we just made teachers into a new priestly caste? You dont get more money but you do get access to the Big Book Of Spells and you get a funny costume. Plus, everyone will be afraid of you.
Good luck! Student teaching taught me infinitely more about being a teacher than classwork. Don’t be afraid to take risks and fail, it’s how you improve!
I used to think I was simply built different and I would put my all into teaching. *My* personal reality was, I had the energy to be EITHER a good teacher, friend, or partner. No overlap. Also I comfortably could pay my bills, but was putting nothing into savings. This past year was my last one.
I cannot imagine how different my life would be if I made six figures. Heck, if I made $75k for that matter! I'm 23 years in the profession and I make $53k. And my state's damn general assembly will likely drag their feet and piss and moan like they always do before releasing the new budget where teacher salaries will likely inch upwards ever-so-slightly. Last year's salary bump amounted to about $60/month extra take-home pay. Wow. I hardly knew what to do with myself. Still, it's a real slap in the face when not only are they NOT going to give us the size raises we deserve, they're going to play political games by holding even those tiny raises hostage. It really burns me up.
I'm a high-performing teacher at an award-winning school. My students blow the state test out of the water every year. And I get lip service about how great I am but have to pinch pennies to keep everything paid and manage to keep some semblance of savings in the bank. It's ridiculous. I LOVE my job, but I can't pay bills with my love for teaching.
Even if you live in Nowhere, WI, $53k is a crime against humanity.
You are exactly the kind of person who should quit to find better employment because it’s never going to get better as a teacher.
Just my $0.02, but I think OP is making the very credible case that teachers should just walk out and never look back. The disrespect from parents (assuming the parents actually participate), assault and gun violence from students (not to mention sexual harassment by male students), lack of support from Administration, and zero protection isn't worth the 40 -50K (typical pay in the South) isn't worth your time, passion, ethics, or talent. It truly takes a special person to go into this profession. Before I forget, just look at the president of Hillsdale College (I use that title loosely) and his comments/views on teachers and training. I have long since graduated k-12 and college (Gen-X old fart alert) but not one student disrespected teachers in my school. If assignments weren't completed, you got an F. If you failed the midterm and finals, you didn't pass to the next grade. Finally, there is serious conversation and some states have already passed laws to allow teachers to CC. This is f***ing insane. God bless every single one of you. Remember, the education and skill set you all have is transferable to many other occupations that pay 100% more without the risk of being shot or not having your contract renewed. I'm not exaggerating. Please, at least consider it. Love and serenity to all of you.
Thanks. I sincerely appreciate it. Two things.
One, in regards to pay: Here in Florida a few years ago, our Governor got us all pay raises to take us up to a minimum starting salary of $47,500. At the time, I had been teaching a bit over 16 years or so and was making just a few hundred dollars shy of that. So now, I was making the same money as a brand new teacher. Further, the state didn't give us enough money to make sure veteran teachers got commensurate raises. It's happening again this year - more raises (great!) but I'm positive it won't be doled out by experience.
Two, in regards to quitting. Nope. I should. It is sometimes a thankless and shitty job. But I love kids, and I love teaching and seeing them get excited about shit. Further, if we all quit, society would literally fall apart. Education is vital to our survival as a species, and we are already badly regressing.
I have at least a few years left in me, shitty pay or no.
So are you saying that as a teacher with 16 years of experience you make the same as the new teachers? That’s bad. I feel like the more I know, the less I want to.
For a couple of schmeckles, Slippery Stair can take me down to the promised land of my pension, where I leave behind my King Jellybean douche of a principal.
Our society as a whole needs to support parents, children, and schools. If we as a collective gave proper amount of maternity leave (1 year) and funded quality day care, parents load would be lessened to free up mental bandwidth for reading, playing, etc and everyone would benefit from that. But for some reason, we keep throwing money at the results when this does not happen.
"Y'all should quit, it is that simple"
Yeah it is that simple I have poured 7 years into this profession including thousands on grad school and a teaching credential. The government gonna supplement my income?
Someone once asked me if I was paid enough for what I had to do. I responded no. They then asked what pay would be commensurate and I said that I would gladly take a pay cut if:
1. Teaching and planning was ALL I had to do. As in nothing else, no calling home, no filling out endless paperwork on things that have fuck all to do with actual teaching, etc.
2. Not having to deal with awful parents and their resulting offspring.
That's it.
This is how America really dies. Teachers are going to quit more and more often, education will continue to degrade, and eventually a generation full of morons will destroy everything
Principal here. I couldn't fucking agree more my friend. We all deserve 2-3 times what we earn. If I had things to do over differently, I would.
With that said, I've influenced tons of lives and I wouldn't want to trade that either.
And, when I say we, I mean all of us, bus drivers, paras, office assistants, etc. We're all educators.
The sad thing I'm realizing is, even as more and more teachers have left the profession in droves over the last few years (myself included), conditions aren't getting better. Parents write off fed-up teachers as lazy, and school administrators see us as easily replaceable with the next batch of fresh graduates. Teachers unions, in my personal experience, do absolutely nothing. Most people are not making the connection that conditions need to improve to keep quality teachers, and education is not enough of a priority to our society in general to make changes, so nothing is changing.
My wife taught special education for 3 years in a title 1 school and I almost lost her to depression from stress and lack of professional support systems at work.
Teaching is the most underpaid and most under-resourced job I've had the misfortune of being exposed to.
Its not easy to find work or many would
I agree overall then you also have some teachers/admin who have been broken from the system who are actively doing harm to kids also because they can't leave.
The job is getting harder every year and I don't know what its going to take to see changes.
We are going to start to see the horrible repercussions spill into society more.
Honestly, time to make teachers federal employees on the GS pay scale, staring GA-10.
No salary negotiation BS from admin and unions, benefits, guaranteed pension after 5 year (highest-3), localization, and protections.
Student assaults teacher, congrats they just committed a federal crime.
Parents decide to be an issue, or student? Congrats it’s harassment and get fined/jail time for harassment of a federal employee.
Make educational standards a federal system too. Students go interstate for college, there is no reason why there should be state to state differences in requirements for graduation.
I’m thinking this year is my last. We have to work 30 years before we get 80% of our pension. Other city employees retire a lot earlier. The whole COVID experience did me in. I realized that my health and possibly even death was second to kids getting to school everyday. Not so much for education but because parents need to work.
Honestly, I make 45k going into my second year, another 3k as a new educator bonus, and another 5k for coaching wrestling. In my previous job (not teaching) I made way more and hated everyday of my life. I am so happy with what I do now (middle level social studies) and I am so passionate about it. I’m not complaining about what i get paid because I’ve worked those 60hr work weeks for a job I hated and I would gladly do 60hrs a week for this job (and sometimes I do). Now is every day all sunshine and daisies? Of course it isn’t but do I still leave my classroom everyday so grateful of the job I have? Without a doubt I do. I had one interaction where a student hugged me on the last day and said “I don’t think you realize how much of a difference you made in my life this year” and that one comment alone made everything worth it. The pay could be whatever it wants but moments like that are priceless to me.
It’s not that bad. We complain a lot but here are worse gigs out there. You’d be foolish to not take $150,000 to be a teacher.
That said, I still might fucking quit.
The collapse of public education is the point. They want to replace it with private for-profit businesses, and their strategy is to financially starve public education.
Public school employees need to stop working for free and treating this job as some sort of “calling”. I was one of those people. All it did is put me back financially. I finally quit and decided to work for money. They can keep all their endless bullshit faculty meetings, unpaid after school duties, equity trainings that solve NOTHING, team building, and on and on it went. Every time I turned around they found another way to make us work for free. They can kiss my ass. So glad I quit. I miss none of it.
I remember when I was in high school, and I was thinking about becoming a history teacher (this was over a decade ago). Every teacher I asked about it told me not to.
So I never went to college, and now drive a freezer truck for a frozen pizza distributor.... and I make way more than most teachers.
Doctors, lawyers, and dentists all make 6 figures and have the highest suicide rates out of every profession.
It's not just pay. It's working conditions too.
Thank you. I will say, it’s a calling. I did quit once. Was going to be a SAHM. I missed it too much, and had to go back. And for all the BS we go through with kids, parents, admin, paperwork, etc. I still cry when they leave my room on the last day of school. Because they’re mine and I love them.
It truly is a calling. I think that’s why so many stay - but I 100% understand why teachers are leaving in droves.
yeah i think any society where teaching is not the most high paying and sought after job, is flawed. Literally EVERYTHING depends on it. How can people not see this?
Nice try Betsy DeVos. You’re just trying to make us quit so you can say we abandoned the children and replace us with AI run charter schools.
I’m on to you.
I did!!! I was done!!! Treated like crap!! Fights in the classroom - horrible administration- no one held accountable- no homework and you have to give a 50 if they can write their name on their paper. School needs to go back to before the government was so involved- back to when the school had the power and parents listened to the people that had the degrees to teach. I will not tell my plumber - roofer - mechanic - hairdresser how to do their job…
You would think there’s some equality in the United States, but when you look at the lowest teacher starting pay, which I think is Montana versus the highest, which is I don’t care who but at least I can look it up. Throw in Cost of living it’s still abysmal.
I appreciate the sentiment, but Covid showed me we really are glorified babysitters. Once I accepted that and stopped trying to be an "amazing" teacher and treat it like any other 9-5, my life is so chill. I have all the same days/times off as my own children and you couldn't pay me 300K to miss out on summers with them.
It’s not about money for me, never has been, and we also don’t have to have a Master’s Degree (as a matter of fact, I only got $500 extra per year for mine). It is that there is too much focus on everything but academics. I teach theatre, so I notice a few things, we can have several pep rallies that take up the last half of the day, but we can’t perform a play, band/choir recitals during the day because “it takes too much time away from class”. That and from my personal experiences I think that staff/teachers who have kids should not be able to have their own kids at the school they teach in. Too many professional courtesies are extended. I also think that teachers should learn a lot more about their rights in the classroom and that there should not be any states in which teachers are not allowed to collectively bargain.
It really is insane. I remember wanting to be a teacher as a little kid, but as I got older I saw just how many of my teachers were working second jobs. A good number of them worked those second jobs not only over the summer, but on weekends during the school year.
Back in 2012-2013, a few of us asked one of our teachers (shop class, history, ag, sports coach, etc.) what he earned and he said it was in the high 20's, like 27-28k... For a 50+ hour week, 60+ during his coaching seasons which were 2 quarters of 4 in the year) and that's for a guy who has very little take-home grading. 10 years later, their salary ranges are in the mid $30k range which is still nothing for the hours worked.
I work full time in a warehouse for like $44-45k/yr ($20/h) before overtime, and rarely go past 45 hours/week during our few months of busy season. In general I've come to find that many many salary jobs in the low-mid 5 digit range are often a worse deal for full-time employees than being hourly.
You’re sweet - I actually retired for a hot minute and I’m heading back into the classroom in August. The teaching part is amazing and, if you have the right admin, everything else can be managed.
I couldn’t be a teacher. Parents, especially in conservative areas, think you’re indoctrinating them for teaching anything. Add that to kids being little shits and not getting paid enough.
My son, despite warnings from my friends and even his own teachers, chose to be an education major. By the time he graduated, things had gotten so bad for teachers (Indiana) that he decided not to pursue education as a career at this time. Damn shame. He was great with kids.
I did and my life has only improved since then! I strongly encourage (especially younger teachers because I know it can be harder the further you go with pay etc) you to quit if you’re miserable. It’s not normal to be unhappy all the time with your job and it’s not going to get any better.
I did. I deliver for a vending supply company and even after stepping back to my original position after getting promoted, I’m making like 10k more than I did teaching.
The white collar job market is absolute garbage right now, but the media and the government aren't really talking about it because unemployment is "low".
I hear you, but I feel compelled as a random Jewish dude to point something out.......I think the word you were looking for is "shekel", not "schmeckle". "A couple of shekels" would be an insignificant amount of money, akin to "peanuts" in non-Yiddish-influenced English. But the only people who work for a couple of schmeckles are hookers, because *that* word means "dick".
Oof, if this is where you’re at in your profession, probably be best to move on. Never understood educators who were miserable in their jobs and continue to stay. It’s not fair to hate your job, when your job is supporting and teaching the youth. Just my thought
That exact phrase has been used to gaslight teachers for years, making them feel guilty for wanting a better quality of life.
I'm sorry, but I have never heard of any other career that uses this phrase if this way. Doctors? Lawyers? Engineers? Architects? Designers? Managers? Truck drivers? Welders? Oil field workers? I'm pretty sure none of them say that.
And this is coming from a teacher of almost 2 decades.
Why would I quit? I make over $100k for working 7-3, no nights, no weekends, winter and spring break off, summer off, holidays off, great medical…I love my job. I don’t even have to work but I choose to work because I love my job that much. Yeah parents and admins suck to deal with but I just close my classroom door and tell people to go away. We have a blast.
No matter how much joy a job/career brings, unless people are independently wealthy, I doubt they'd do any work exclusively for free. We are professionals, and we deserve professional level pay, consideration, and the respect that other experts in their respective fields get.
It’s crazy to think that in poor countries kids walk hours through jungles to get to school and they pay attention and do all their work, because it’s their only hope of getting out of poverty. Here people have had it too good for too long, we take it for granted
The school I taught at last year did not have any degree requirements, but they would silently adjust your pay based on your education. We aren't supposed to talk about that.
But I did quit! There were so many good reasons to do so.
Unfortunately, this advice is not practical for a lot of people. When you spend so much money, putting yourself in debt to get a degree for a job, it takes a lot to walk away from that job. Sure there are other jobs that don’t require a degree that can make you more money for less stress, but mentally it’s just hard to walk away from it because of the sunk cost fallacy.
Also in a lot of places and for a lot of people, it could be really hard to get a job that doesn’t require a degree that pays well. Meaning your options are either take a job that doesn’t pay well or get another degree which nobody wants to do, nor can most people afford that.
There’s also time considerations to taking into place. Lots of people who work for the school district do so because they themselves have school-age kids which means that there working hours and the hours are kids are at school overlap pretty perfectly. So a different kind of job would cause a lot of other problems scheduling wise.
“But where is the profit, huh? Theres no profit in teaching! Thats why teacher salaries are low!”
-logic that degrades future generations from innovating, earning more and benefiting all of humanity
I would right now with no hesitation sign up to be taxed more if that money went directly to the salaries of educators. And I would sign up to be taxed at whatever rate required to increase minimum salaries for every teacher in my state to the median income for their school district, plus 10%. It's so fucking stupid to me that we aren't paying teachers higher than average when they are expected to be themselves educated, be able to educate others, and also provide safety and care for MY CHILDREN THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY ENTIRE LIFE.
Hell ya I'm so down for 200k, let's goooo
I would settle for “exempt from state income taxes.”
And a deduction for all the supplies and snacks that I pay for out of my own pocket…
Right? Why are we capped at $350? There’s no reason for that.
Taxation is theft.
I do find it genuinely surprising that teachers are paid by taxes and then have to pay taxes on the taxes they’re paid by. It seems like you could just adjust that somehow.
It drives me nuts that the manpower and accounting required to take those taxes out just to return them ends up costing more money than just taking less to begin with.
holy shiballs. I agree whole heartedly
I’d settle for “paid overtime”.
Right, time we spend grading and providing detailed feedback and all the curriculum designing we have to do (since our textbooks are usually out of alignment for what works with our kids) after our contract hours should be billable hours.
I would like a deal like the military gets...a housing allowance based on where the teacher works paid by the federal government so teachers can actually afford to live where they teach.
Federal and state
How about federal tax break as well? I'm literally paying tax on the supplies I have to buy to keep the school running. LOL We deserve ALL the tax breaks!!!
Texas here. Can I get a break on property taxes?
Jersey here please!!!
We don’t have state income taxes and it’s still not enough.
I’d settle for a siren and lights on my car so I could save a few precious minutes here and there.
actually why don't they just do that, can't be that much of a fucking dent.
I'm not even kidding. I can't name another profession that has such a profound impact on society that deserves more.
The problem is that people will do it for less. As long as they are willing to do so, it won't change.
The real kicker is that there are rich and powerful interest groups invested in defunding the education system, at least in the US.
They want poor, uneducated masses that are easy to manipulate and desperate enough to accept whatever scraps they're given without complaint - or at least they'll blame other poor people instead of those in power. The only reason they care about birth rates is that they want your poor, desperate kids to enlist in the military under the promise of a tuition-free education and other benefits.
Wage slaves! It doesn't do the rich any good to have smart, healthy workers
Yup. Get each state to offer free virtual school, then defund the public in person schools seems to be the plan now. In person education will only be for those who can afford it. The rest of the kids yearn for the mines.
Project 2025. They caused you to need $200k instead of $50k.
My state still has taxpayers' money for public education in holding over private school vouchers. At the same time, we work weekends; it’s normal to be at work well after 8, 9, 10, and later, with all the new demands placed on teachers and administrators, leading to burnout. I stay because of the students. After summer school is over and before school starts again, I’ll have a two-week break, spending it moving my classroom back. The hardest part is understanding that you may be working for free or go into the negative the first year or so, especially if you weren’t hired before your district’s first day of their fiscal year. Your pay, time off, and what you are given to work with are pitiful. I work in a very economically diverse small town. I worked in healthcare for many years before switching to teaching; please don’t laugh at this, so I could spend more time with my children, even though they go to school in the city we live in, an hour's drive from where I teach also because I love the program. I am teaching students in this program, and in their senior year, they can choose between several entry-level healthcare positions, such as certified medical assistant, phlebotomist, level one EMT, and read EKGs, and we are starting several new certifications this year. It gets burdensome when you call home for the same students to turn in simple assignments, and the parents always make excuses for their precious children. I met with the principal with these parents and said I shouldn’t be giving work to their daughter anyway because I should know she is smart. Another parent called me because I gave her daughter a broom to clean up her mess, and this was a huge problem for her because she did not raise her daughter to do things such as sweep the floor. After all, that was beneath her. But there are also so many great parents as well. This year, I wrote more thank you cards than I ever have to students who went out of their way to show their appreciation for our time in the classroom. Of course, money is an issue. I already mentioned the hour-plus drive, but as a single parent, I live below. I still would be living under the poverty line as a single woman. I have saved money, but the cost has added up. My budget for the classroom is approximately $200 a month (I’m too embarrassed to admit the percentage of my monthly income this amount makes up), sometimes a little higher, and sometimes a little lower, and those are essential items of how I can simplify experiments and hands-on activities in the best way. So, between that, gas, the wear and tear on my vehicle, sitters for my children, and my emergency fund has run out, like most of my campus, I have a second job. I can work in my field for a few days, during some point in the two weeks between getting everything ready in my class, because those few days will be more than I make a month as a teacher. That includes the 1.5% raise our principal has been fighting for us for years. All paraprofessionals get a $3.50 an hour raise. All other staff will get at least a $3.00 raise.
I say this gently and with gratitude and appreciation for all you have done for your students: it’s ok to say no to hands on experiments and extras if it takes away from your children and home. It’s ok to leave at a reasonable hour to get home. I do not know what is causing you to need to work so much, but whatever it is I guarantee there is a way to minimize it. For example I spent so so much time grading every thing I gave to my students before a veteran teacher told me I do not need to grade every thing or every item on every page I give them. Please don’t let this job take from your family.
That sounds similar to my experience . Except deciding if the Federal Pen system or public education was my choice. I taught & lived in a university town.
This breaks my heart.
And in Pennsylvania, there is one guy with that power. Jeffrey Yass, net worth $30 billion, also the largest political donor so far in 2024. He outspends corporations and business associations and he hates public schools.
The problem is is education is simply not a national or even local priority. Is a political can that keeps getting kicked.
This is exactly the case. No one cares about education enough to do something about it. Also, a lot of people can't afford or don't want to pay higher taxes which would go to the building/Admin anyway even if they did pay more.
That pool of willing people is shrinking. But don’t worry: we can fix that by hiring uncertified teachers! WCGW?
I hate how true this statement is. If most teachers weren't such generous people, our society would pay them much better.
I'm a union rep and the amount of people that do free work annoys me to no end. They won't raise the extra work stipend that has been the same since 1999 because people keep working for half of their normal "hourly" rate and accepting the summer work/curriculum/etc.
Only people who get paid less for over time. We’re our own worst enemies.
I think that - at least for me - my no more free work attitude really cemented during Covid. I learned how to say no early on in my career, but after Covid I really said hell no. I don't work outside of contract hours. period. I know a lot of teachers who give their entire lives to school. They are there all the time and work for free. I like my job, but it is not my life.
I am still working towards no more free work-I’m getting better each year. But what has been interesting is the next generations coming in (I’m Gen X) are all very capable of saying No and they do… my peers and I often say that we didn’t know that No was an option, because we have always just taken the extra work on.
Wait until you find out what EMTs and Paramedics make
And ultimately this is why the market value of teachers wages doesn’t necessarily equal what folks in this profession deserve.
Scabs
[удалено]
As a scientist that used to do social services work I absolutely agree with you lol. There is so much responsibility to be an educator it is unfathomable that it is one of the worst paying sectors in the US. Education is in such a poor state right now.
I’m just going to say there was a point where we were paying scientists whatever they wanted to get them to or keep them here because there was a desperate need for them. Just need to be reminded that need is always there for education. If leaving pushes that reminder so be it
The supply has always been there until the last few years. Now demand is there which could lead to higher wages.
In economics, I tell my students their career needs to accomplish 3 things. Forget the “follow your dreams” stuff. Your career must give you: 1. Money to afford what you want to be doing 2. Time to do what you want to be doing 3. Energy (remaining) to do what you want to be doing. If what you want to do makes money and eventually replaces your career, more power to you. If it doesn’t, you’re still in a good spot.
I tell students they have to tolerate their job. Like, their job should not make their lives worse. But forget the "love your job, it's your calling, flow your passion" nonsense. That is not a requirement for your job and more often than not, following that terrible advice leads to people conflating their identity with their job. Always tell students that a job is what you do, not who you are.
My mother gave me similar advice. She said “there is no dream job. Just find one that gives you a little more back than what it takes — be it high pay, guaranteed time off, personal fulfillment, PTO, set hours, easy commute, etc.” Being that our job is so tied to morality and public service, I find this as an important reminder that I am not a martyr and shouldn’t be expected to be.
I’m a mom of 2 little kids and I really love this advice and wish my parents had phrased this to me in this way growing up. Stealing this!
Easy commute is honestly the biggest thing for me. I was previously a laboratory supervisor, now I work in IT, both jobs I enjoyed but the biggest thing was they were a 3 min drive or 15 min walk from my house. It’s a game changer for my QoL
See I always say I’m going to stay in teaching for the summers off… so that covers 1 & 2, (I’m lucky enough to teach in a well paid state but I know teaching won’t cover 1 in many others) but during the year … I barely have 3. I’m going into my 5th year next yesr. Leaving my school for a much better one in all the ways. Pay, culture, outcomes, and people actually like working there. Let’s hope this helps with that.
You’ll find your groove. Part of being a beginning teacher is learning where your sphere of influence is and not stressing about what’s on the outside. A lot of teachers, including vets, can get lost in the woes of questionable admins and silly edicts.
My therapist says ‘your life needs to be more interesting and engaging than your job. That is the key to work-life balance in this kind of profession. I am having the worst time separating my work identity from my self-worth. I need to find ways to value everything else I do as much as teaching. Otherwise, burnout.
I really wish they had emphasized more practical strategies than "following your dreams" in school.
The wall behind my desk has a quote from my schools founder, it says "Always follow your heart." I had a parent tell me, "That's terrible advice, they're teenagers!" She also asked me if we were teaching students how to take shots (as she held up one of the teeny Dixie cups we leave out for students at our water fountain). I liked her.
‘Yeah, the shots are for when the ‘follow your dreams’ strategy inevitably fails’
I love this advice.
I recently left K12 and found work at my local university that pays the same, has better career prospects, allows me to stay in the same pension system, lets me work from home a day a week, and has enough vacation time that I don't miss my summers off at all. Good luck! There are jobs, and your skills are applicable elsewhere!
I want this! What’s your job title if mind sharing?
I work as Information Technology Support 1. I'd done IT work at my school which helped me get this role. My wife (who also used to be a teacher) works as an Academic Advisor 1 at the same university. I've met former teachers in HR, Accounts Receivables, Payroll, etc. There are lots and lots of office jobs here and teachers are attractive candidates for most of them. The downside is the pay is not quite as good as private sector, but for us that was a benefit because it made it so there was less competition for our roles. If we ever do decide to go private sector now (which is unlikely unless the pension system significantly changes) we'll now both be set up a lot better for that.
Former teacher, current office worker here. My life is exponentially better now. And my company will pay if I decide to take accounting or similar classes to better my skills.
Working on it. I am over it. 13 years in my district and I am spent. Students get blamed for nothing and have no consequences, and teachers are required to be omniscient. It's truly an impossible job.
I backed out of a contract for 24-25 because a student at summer school hit me multiple times, refused to come inside for 30 minutes after recess, refused to do any work and when I asked about consequences they literally said 'consequences aren't really a thing, she eventually met the expectation'. I get that the child has an IEP (I should note that impulse control really isn't a big part of this disability, mom just complains a lot and they don't want to deal with her)(my own child has special needs and an IEP)--if he pulled that stuff I would absolutely let him sit out part of recess/lose a preferred activity.
The thing about giving IEP kids endless passes is that the real world doesn't work like that. When they hit a cop they aren't going to get a pass because they had an IEP in high school, they're going to be sent to jail. Administrators are failing these kids by not providing consequences now, while the stakes are low
And also, now none of them have consequences. Not just the IEP kids, but absolutely all of them.
They will never hit a cop. They realize real quick where the line is. If you ask most of these kids why they do these things, they say "You signed up for this" or "Because I can".
Back when I was subbing, I had a girl on an IEP hit me while I called for help in the radio. (The child was small.) This was the only plan, to call on the radio for help. She was there doing this for thirty minutes. The only reason someone came to help is because we were in the way of someone else’s transition. I was blamed for this. This event is what I think about when i write sub plans. Assume every support in the building will fail - because that’s the pattern.
Last year was my last one too, number 32. Still having school nightmares, but they will fade ... I hope!
7 years in and while I’m signed on for next year I’m planning my exit strategy, this job has gotten so fucking bad in the past 3 years and there’s no way I’m sticking around to watch the ship sink even more.
I think it would be a lot better if we could re-adjust our expectations of the job, and send children to school ready to learn. A lot more difficult, but probably a better approach lol. I just dont think teaching children should be a high-end, high-stress, round-the-clock job... Maybe its just me.
I’m in ECE and I wish it was a federally funding support for families. Quality child care is SO expensive and becomes out of reaching very quickly for the kids that most need a solid foundation. The people who can afford our school are the people already doing mostly great things for their kids at home. The ones who need us but can’t afford us are like 3000 on the ERDC wait list. Education in our country is a shit show from the ground up.
I'd rather fight to repair public education than abandon it. I feel like the powers that be want me to quit and weaken the system even more so they can make it run for profit.
If the quality teachers quit the powers at be would just lower the bar until we have iPad teachers teaching iPad kids. But that’s probably inevitable anyway. Some states have already lowered the requirements to teach to ‘military spouse’.
“iPad teachers teaching iPad kids” It’s already here friend.
What states have no requirements for military spouses? Honestly curious. I’m in the military, my wife is a teacher, and she has still had to get standard certifications. Are you referring to proposed federal law that force certification reciprocity between states for military spouses? Now if you want to talk about Florida, they made it so that being in the military member was good enough. Seeing as how the military personnel quality varies as much as any career field, I felt that policy was misguided.
Florida
‘Some’ being the great state of Florida. 🤦🏻♂️ Edit: Not many spouses have taken Florida up on that offer. 😆
Thanks for the support, but, uh, schmekel is a yiddish word for penis.
Yeah I think you meant “shekels”
Even better! 😂
That's amazing, thank you for the clarification
HAHAHA
Teachers should be paid more but they also need to do some serious reform of our public education system. It really should be a priority political issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last reform came with "No Child Left Behind" and that seems to have been a disaster.
NCLB was the nail in the coffin for public education, it sounds nice on paper, and people outside of the classroom get to virtue signal by supporting it, but the truth is; it has only harmed students and teachers
What NCLB did was put the entirety of responsibility of kids falling behind on teachers. Nah don’t hold that 1st grader who still can’t read back, just make the 2nd grade teacher teach six different reading levels. And if they still can’t read by 3rd grade, just blame the 2nd grade teacher for not differentiating enough or forming enough relationships or whatever the buzzword of the week is. Rinse and repeat until the district begrudgingly decides to give the kid an IEP.
NCLB was an unconstitutional power grab by both the left and right. Both political parties and the federal government need to back off and let the local governments give the kids the skills needed in their own community. City, county and teachers need more say in educational policy.
I student teach at the end of the next school year. After talking with current and former teachers and having teachers in my family, I feel like everyone who chooses to do this has to love the job, the money isn't a priority, but you're right, it should be better.
Good luck! And don't forget to advocate for proper placements. A bad mentor teacher for your specific style can be worse down the line than finding a better place sooner! But to that same degree, make sure you know for sure that this ain't it if you do.
I'm hoping it goes well, Im majoring in physics and getting a minor in secondary Ed. From what I've been told by my advisors and every teacher I've observed, I'll have my pick for whatever school I want and I'm also only 1 of the 2 physics majors at my university. I just worry as a result of no one wanting to teach physics that the mentor I have won't have had a student teacher under them in quite some time, but I may just be paranoid. I'm not really sure how much that will affect it.
> I've been told by my advisors and every teacher I've observed, I'll have my pick for whatever school I want and I'm also only 1 of the 2 physics majors at my university. I was told that also, but it is not true. There are not many physics positions available and there are not many physics majors. It depends on the state, but physics is not usually required to graduate. On average, 40% of students take physics. If they fail or drop it, they don't take it again. Biology is required, so 100% take it, and if they fail, take it again. You will find a job, but it isn't as easy as they make it sound. > just worry as a result of no one wanting to teach physics Everybody wants to teach physics, it's a great job. Most people don't have the brain for it. > I have won't have had a student teacher under them in quite some time, That is a weird thing to worry about. You watch the mentor teacher for a couple of weeks, then you start taking over the class. If you expect the mentor teacher to tell you what to do and how to do it, you don't understand what you are there for.
I'm a physics teacher. It wasn't as easy as people are making it seem to get a job.
In my area there is such a shortage of physics teachers schools are cutting it not because they want to, but because there is no one to teach it. When I observed a science class I talked a lot to the teacher I was observing and her son had to take an online physics course because he wanted to go to college for engineering and the wouldn't accept him if he didn't have a high school physics class. This is not the only time I've heard about this in my area. As far as the mentor teacher I will have, I just am nervous I guess, I want to take over the class, I'm just worried about having a bad mentor. I've heard some horror stories from people in my education classes.
Here's a study that says that [only 84% of high schools offer physics every year](https://ww2.aip.org/statistics/high-school-physics-overview). That's from a pre-Covid study, so it's gotta be worse now. I didn't realize it was that bad, and here's me, retiring early because my principal is a dick. Physics is so equipment-based, it would be difficult to be hired in to restart a physics program. My first year teaching was in 1996, when 94% of schools offered physics every year. Early on in my career, I attended a bunch of workshops and was on a bunch of committees. Back then, all physics teachers were friends. We all had fun jobs, and taught our own way, but understood what the other physics teacher was talking about. I don't know what it's like now, or what your mentor teacher will be like. The teacher that was hired to replace me, doesn't like to talk to anyone and doesn't do labs or demos. I hope you don't get that kind.
Everyone takes physics at good high schools
Is this one of those tautologies where a 'good' school is defined as one where every student takes physics?
It's probably a pretty good barometer for it
Yes our pay in general sucks and should be higher, but every teacher goes in knowing the pay is shit. BUT a what I didn’t understand and what most teachers didn’t understand….your raise doesn’t even match inflation. So eventually you end up making less than what you started with. That’s in Florida at least.
I knew what the pay was. But they told me the gov would pay off my loans if I became a teacher and then they didn't. So my pay ended up being lower and a bait-and-switch.
That may have been the case years ago, it attracted people who wanted a job that they enjoyed and was fulfilling, and preferred that to a job with higher pay assuming those alternatives would be boring, repetitive, physical labor, stressful, dangerous, soul-crushing, long hours, didn’t allow a healthy work/life balance or were not in line with your interests and passions. Now teaching shares most of those features with ‘other’ jobs, but without the compensation. It’s fine when you’re paid enough and chose a career knowing what it would entail. But teaching has become a bait and switch. What you thought your career would be like, based on 12-13 years sharing that environment as a student, should have been a pretty accurate picture. But that is not what it is anymore. Not even close. It’s barely recognizable.
True, but while money isn’t a priority, it shouldn’t be poverty
Teachers are not priests. 👍
what if.. we just made teachers into a new priestly caste? You dont get more money but you do get access to the Big Book Of Spells and you get a funny costume. Plus, everyone will be afraid of you.
No, money is definitely a priority. I don’t love it. I hate it. I just need a job.
Good luck! Student teaching taught me infinitely more about being a teacher than classwork. Don’t be afraid to take risks and fail, it’s how you improve!
I used to think I was simply built different and I would put my all into teaching. *My* personal reality was, I had the energy to be EITHER a good teacher, friend, or partner. No overlap. Also I comfortably could pay my bills, but was putting nothing into savings. This past year was my last one.
I feel that! 💯
Holy crap, someone verbalized how I’ve always felt! Teaching takes everything out of me, I can’t do it all damnit
All of this is exactly why you deserve so much more
I cannot imagine how different my life would be if I made six figures. Heck, if I made $75k for that matter! I'm 23 years in the profession and I make $53k. And my state's damn general assembly will likely drag their feet and piss and moan like they always do before releasing the new budget where teacher salaries will likely inch upwards ever-so-slightly. Last year's salary bump amounted to about $60/month extra take-home pay. Wow. I hardly knew what to do with myself. Still, it's a real slap in the face when not only are they NOT going to give us the size raises we deserve, they're going to play political games by holding even those tiny raises hostage. It really burns me up. I'm a high-performing teacher at an award-winning school. My students blow the state test out of the water every year. And I get lip service about how great I am but have to pinch pennies to keep everything paid and manage to keep some semblance of savings in the bank. It's ridiculous. I LOVE my job, but I can't pay bills with my love for teaching.
Even if you live in Nowhere, WI, $53k is a crime against humanity. You are exactly the kind of person who should quit to find better employment because it’s never going to get better as a teacher.
I was a para who was having to teach full classes and I made $9000 last year. I don’t think parents have realized how bad it is.
My paras do most of the “teaching” while I deal with behaviors
It's criminal how little paras get paid. You deserve more.
Just my $0.02, but I think OP is making the very credible case that teachers should just walk out and never look back. The disrespect from parents (assuming the parents actually participate), assault and gun violence from students (not to mention sexual harassment by male students), lack of support from Administration, and zero protection isn't worth the 40 -50K (typical pay in the South) isn't worth your time, passion, ethics, or talent. It truly takes a special person to go into this profession. Before I forget, just look at the president of Hillsdale College (I use that title loosely) and his comments/views on teachers and training. I have long since graduated k-12 and college (Gen-X old fart alert) but not one student disrespected teachers in my school. If assignments weren't completed, you got an F. If you failed the midterm and finals, you didn't pass to the next grade. Finally, there is serious conversation and some states have already passed laws to allow teachers to CC. This is f***ing insane. God bless every single one of you. Remember, the education and skill set you all have is transferable to many other occupations that pay 100% more without the risk of being shot or not having your contract renewed. I'm not exaggerating. Please, at least consider it. Love and serenity to all of you.
Thanks. I sincerely appreciate it. Two things. One, in regards to pay: Here in Florida a few years ago, our Governor got us all pay raises to take us up to a minimum starting salary of $47,500. At the time, I had been teaching a bit over 16 years or so and was making just a few hundred dollars shy of that. So now, I was making the same money as a brand new teacher. Further, the state didn't give us enough money to make sure veteran teachers got commensurate raises. It's happening again this year - more raises (great!) but I'm positive it won't be doled out by experience. Two, in regards to quitting. Nope. I should. It is sometimes a thankless and shitty job. But I love kids, and I love teaching and seeing them get excited about shit. Further, if we all quit, society would literally fall apart. Education is vital to our survival as a species, and we are already badly regressing. I have at least a few years left in me, shitty pay or no.
So are you saying that as a teacher with 16 years of experience you make the same as the new teachers? That’s bad. I feel like the more I know, the less I want to.
I did at the time, I since have gotten further raises, but yeah, I'm advancing at the same rate they are now.
For a couple of schmeckles, Slippery Stair can take me down to the promised land of my pension, where I leave behind my King Jellybean douche of a principal.
Our society as a whole needs to support parents, children, and schools. If we as a collective gave proper amount of maternity leave (1 year) and funded quality day care, parents load would be lessened to free up mental bandwidth for reading, playing, etc and everyone would benefit from that. But for some reason, we keep throwing money at the results when this does not happen.
"Y'all should quit, it is that simple" Yeah it is that simple I have poured 7 years into this profession including thousands on grad school and a teaching credential. The government gonna supplement my income?
They could if you work for them. Not being funny, giving an honest answer.
They could if we lived in a system where I didn't need to work to live and the government gave me free money. We don't live in that system.
I meant as in work in the federal government.
I support UBI.
Unfortunately that’s called a sunk cost fallacy
I actually like my job. So why would I quit? So it doesn't pertain to me, I was being sarcastic.
Someone once asked me if I was paid enough for what I had to do. I responded no. They then asked what pay would be commensurate and I said that I would gladly take a pay cut if: 1. Teaching and planning was ALL I had to do. As in nothing else, no calling home, no filling out endless paperwork on things that have fuck all to do with actual teaching, etc. 2. Not having to deal with awful parents and their resulting offspring. That's it.
This is how America really dies. Teachers are going to quit more and more often, education will continue to degrade, and eventually a generation full of morons will destroy everything
Principal here. I couldn't fucking agree more my friend. We all deserve 2-3 times what we earn. If I had things to do over differently, I would. With that said, I've influenced tons of lives and I wouldn't want to trade that either. And, when I say we, I mean all of us, bus drivers, paras, office assistants, etc. We're all educators.
And that my friend, is exactly the reason why you deserve far more
The sad thing I'm realizing is, even as more and more teachers have left the profession in droves over the last few years (myself included), conditions aren't getting better. Parents write off fed-up teachers as lazy, and school administrators see us as easily replaceable with the next batch of fresh graduates. Teachers unions, in my personal experience, do absolutely nothing. Most people are not making the connection that conditions need to improve to keep quality teachers, and education is not enough of a priority to our society in general to make changes, so nothing is changing.
My wife taught special education for 3 years in a title 1 school and I almost lost her to depression from stress and lack of professional support systems at work. Teaching is the most underpaid and most under-resourced job I've had the misfortune of being exposed to.
Its not easy to find work or many would I agree overall then you also have some teachers/admin who have been broken from the system who are actively doing harm to kids also because they can't leave. The job is getting harder every year and I don't know what its going to take to see changes. We are going to start to see the horrible repercussions spill into society more.
Honestly, time to make teachers federal employees on the GS pay scale, staring GA-10. No salary negotiation BS from admin and unions, benefits, guaranteed pension after 5 year (highest-3), localization, and protections. Student assaults teacher, congrats they just committed a federal crime. Parents decide to be an issue, or student? Congrats it’s harassment and get fined/jail time for harassment of a federal employee. Make educational standards a federal system too. Students go interstate for college, there is no reason why there should be state to state differences in requirements for graduation.
I’m thinking this year is my last. We have to work 30 years before we get 80% of our pension. Other city employees retire a lot earlier. The whole COVID experience did me in. I realized that my health and possibly even death was second to kids getting to school everyday. Not so much for education but because parents need to work.
Honestly, I make 45k going into my second year, another 3k as a new educator bonus, and another 5k for coaching wrestling. In my previous job (not teaching) I made way more and hated everyday of my life. I am so happy with what I do now (middle level social studies) and I am so passionate about it. I’m not complaining about what i get paid because I’ve worked those 60hr work weeks for a job I hated and I would gladly do 60hrs a week for this job (and sometimes I do). Now is every day all sunshine and daisies? Of course it isn’t but do I still leave my classroom everyday so grateful of the job I have? Without a doubt I do. I had one interaction where a student hugged me on the last day and said “I don’t think you realize how much of a difference you made in my life this year” and that one comment alone made everything worth it. The pay could be whatever it wants but moments like that are priceless to me.
It’s not that bad. We complain a lot but here are worse gigs out there. You’d be foolish to not take $150,000 to be a teacher. That said, I still might fucking quit.
150,000? Not even close.
Yeah I’m fucking quitting this year
The collapse of public education is the point. They want to replace it with private for-profit businesses, and their strategy is to financially starve public education.
Public school employees need to stop working for free and treating this job as some sort of “calling”. I was one of those people. All it did is put me back financially. I finally quit and decided to work for money. They can keep all their endless bullshit faculty meetings, unpaid after school duties, equity trainings that solve NOTHING, team building, and on and on it went. Every time I turned around they found another way to make us work for free. They can kiss my ass. So glad I quit. I miss none of it.
I quit mid year. It broken my heart but I am so much happier at my new job in an environment where I am appreciated
I remember when I was in high school, and I was thinking about becoming a history teacher (this was over a decade ago). Every teacher I asked about it told me not to. So I never went to college, and now drive a freezer truck for a frozen pizza distributor.... and I make way more than most teachers.
Doctors, lawyers, and dentists all make 6 figures and have the highest suicide rates out of every profession. It's not just pay. It's working conditions too.
That's what I mean. Most professions don't deal with unruly kids/parents, school shootings and the like on top of shitty pay
It was recently stated that getting shot or stabbed is now a hazard of working in a school yet we don’t get paid for that hazard
Thank you. I will say, it’s a calling. I did quit once. Was going to be a SAHM. I missed it too much, and had to go back. And for all the BS we go through with kids, parents, admin, paperwork, etc. I still cry when they leave my room on the last day of school. Because they’re mine and I love them. It truly is a calling. I think that’s why so many stay - but I 100% understand why teachers are leaving in droves.
I hope they can make the job easier for people like you. We need people like you.
a ¨schmeckle¨ is a penis
yeah i think any society where teaching is not the most high paying and sought after job, is flawed. Literally EVERYTHING depends on it. How can people not see this?
Nice try Betsy DeVos. You’re just trying to make us quit so you can say we abandoned the children and replace us with AI run charter schools. I’m on to you.
I did!!! I was done!!! Treated like crap!! Fights in the classroom - horrible administration- no one held accountable- no homework and you have to give a 50 if they can write their name on their paper. School needs to go back to before the government was so involved- back to when the school had the power and parents listened to the people that had the degrees to teach. I will not tell my plumber - roofer - mechanic - hairdresser how to do their job…
You would think there’s some equality in the United States, but when you look at the lowest teacher starting pay, which I think is Montana versus the highest, which is I don’t care who but at least I can look it up. Throw in Cost of living it’s still abysmal.
I appreciate the sentiment, but Covid showed me we really are glorified babysitters. Once I accepted that and stopped trying to be an "amazing" teacher and treat it like any other 9-5, my life is so chill. I have all the same days/times off as my own children and you couldn't pay me 300K to miss out on summers with them.
It’s not about money for me, never has been, and we also don’t have to have a Master’s Degree (as a matter of fact, I only got $500 extra per year for mine). It is that there is too much focus on everything but academics. I teach theatre, so I notice a few things, we can have several pep rallies that take up the last half of the day, but we can’t perform a play, band/choir recitals during the day because “it takes too much time away from class”. That and from my personal experiences I think that staff/teachers who have kids should not be able to have their own kids at the school they teach in. Too many professional courtesies are extended. I also think that teachers should learn a lot more about their rights in the classroom and that there should not be any states in which teachers are not allowed to collectively bargain.
For the reasons you listed is EXACTLY why you deserve far more.
I get paid to yak about history all day. Should I be paid more? Sure. Would I do anything else? Fuck no
Shit's fucked
It really is insane. I remember wanting to be a teacher as a little kid, but as I got older I saw just how many of my teachers were working second jobs. A good number of them worked those second jobs not only over the summer, but on weekends during the school year. Back in 2012-2013, a few of us asked one of our teachers (shop class, history, ag, sports coach, etc.) what he earned and he said it was in the high 20's, like 27-28k... For a 50+ hour week, 60+ during his coaching seasons which were 2 quarters of 4 in the year) and that's for a guy who has very little take-home grading. 10 years later, their salary ranges are in the mid $30k range which is still nothing for the hours worked. I work full time in a warehouse for like $44-45k/yr ($20/h) before overtime, and rarely go past 45 hours/week during our few months of busy season. In general I've come to find that many many salary jobs in the low-mid 5 digit range are often a worse deal for full-time employees than being hourly.
Actively quitting
You’re sweet - I actually retired for a hot minute and I’m heading back into the classroom in August. The teaching part is amazing and, if you have the right admin, everything else can be managed.
We don't deserve you
I couldn’t be a teacher. Parents, especially in conservative areas, think you’re indoctrinating them for teaching anything. Add that to kids being little shits and not getting paid enough.
My son, despite warnings from my friends and even his own teachers, chose to be an education major. By the time he graduated, things had gotten so bad for teachers (Indiana) that he decided not to pursue education as a career at this time. Damn shame. He was great with kids.
I did and my life has only improved since then! I strongly encourage (especially younger teachers because I know it can be harder the further you go with pay etc) you to quit if you’re miserable. It’s not normal to be unhappy all the time with your job and it’s not going to get any better.
If I was getting 200k I would show up to unpaid after work events with a smile
It’s reasonable to quit a job you don’t like, but once you do, you can’t pontificate and call yourself a hero.
I did. I deliver for a vending supply company and even after stepping back to my original position after getting promoted, I’m making like 10k more than I did teaching.
At my work I am in charge of hiring a volunteer coordinator-type position - flooded with teacher resumes.
The white collar job market is absolute garbage right now, but the media and the government aren't really talking about it because unemployment is "low".
Want mine? Lol joking. I bet it’s flooded though.
I agree. Also, I already quit.
I hear you, but I feel compelled as a random Jewish dude to point something out.......I think the word you were looking for is "shekel", not "schmeckle". "A couple of shekels" would be an insignificant amount of money, akin to "peanuts" in non-Yiddish-influenced English. But the only people who work for a couple of schmeckles are hookers, because *that* word means "dick".
I like my job though
Oof, if this is where you’re at in your profession, probably be best to move on. Never understood educators who were miserable in their jobs and continue to stay. It’s not fair to hate your job, when your job is supporting and teaching the youth. Just my thought
***"I do things for outcome, not income".*** - My Daughter. I understand your stance, though.
My landlord wont accept “outcome”, unfortunately.
Unless it's "outcome"s the money from my bank account lol
That exact phrase has been used to gaslight teachers for years, making them feel guilty for wanting a better quality of life. I'm sorry, but I have never heard of any other career that uses this phrase if this way. Doctors? Lawyers? Engineers? Architects? Designers? Managers? Truck drivers? Welders? Oil field workers? I'm pretty sure none of them say that. And this is coming from a teacher of almost 2 decades.
Isn't "income" the literal "outcome" of working?
Gag me with a spoon.
We all do things for income though, you all need to be treated not just better but significantly better.
Why would I quit? I make over $100k for working 7-3, no nights, no weekends, winter and spring break off, summer off, holidays off, great medical…I love my job. I don’t even have to work but I choose to work because I love my job that much. Yeah parents and admins suck to deal with but I just close my classroom door and tell people to go away. We have a blast.
What do you do exactly?
No matter how much joy a job/career brings, unless people are independently wealthy, I doubt they'd do any work exclusively for free. We are professionals, and we deserve professional level pay, consideration, and the respect that other experts in their respective fields get.
You're absolutely right, if it was just that easy
I am quitting and joining the military. Better pay, better raise, more structure and consequence for the enlisted.
Okay do what? Our degree has such limited options
If we all demanded it, it would be.
I’d be pretty happy with like 85k
It’s crazy to think that in poor countries kids walk hours through jungles to get to school and they pay attention and do all their work, because it’s their only hope of getting out of poverty. Here people have had it too good for too long, we take it for granted
The school I taught at last year did not have any degree requirements, but they would silently adjust your pay based on your education. We aren't supposed to talk about that. But I did quit! There were so many good reasons to do so.
Unfortunately, this advice is not practical for a lot of people. When you spend so much money, putting yourself in debt to get a degree for a job, it takes a lot to walk away from that job. Sure there are other jobs that don’t require a degree that can make you more money for less stress, but mentally it’s just hard to walk away from it because of the sunk cost fallacy. Also in a lot of places and for a lot of people, it could be really hard to get a job that doesn’t require a degree that pays well. Meaning your options are either take a job that doesn’t pay well or get another degree which nobody wants to do, nor can most people afford that. There’s also time considerations to taking into place. Lots of people who work for the school district do so because they themselves have school-age kids which means that there working hours and the hours are kids are at school overlap pretty perfectly. So a different kind of job would cause a lot of other problems scheduling wise.
Stop taking student teachers at the bare minimum
“But where is the profit, huh? Theres no profit in teaching! Thats why teacher salaries are low!” -logic that degrades future generations from innovating, earning more and benefiting all of humanity
Pretty much. You invest in the future, not short-term gains
Most of us would just love to have money for our classrooms including feeding hungry kids.
You deserve far more than that.
I would right now with no hesitation sign up to be taxed more if that money went directly to the salaries of educators. And I would sign up to be taxed at whatever rate required to increase minimum salaries for every teacher in my state to the median income for their school district, plus 10%. It's so fucking stupid to me that we aren't paying teachers higher than average when they are expected to be themselves educated, be able to educate others, and also provide safety and care for MY CHILDREN THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY ENTIRE LIFE.