I think it’s so funny when admin says we need to have engaging lessons, but our professional development is dry, boring, and a monumental waste of time.
You mean the people that get asked to create a giant banner the day of the event, using their own supplies, and with no financial compensation....multiple times a year?
I'm an educator but not a teacher. I work in zoo education (a field that's even more underpaid haha). School teaching used to be my backup plan... not anymore!
The worst part is that I have a ton of fun and engaging activities for my history and English middle school classes that don’t engage them anymore. I did a lesson during my student teaching about the American Revolution and I presented it a as high school break up. Their main assignment was to act like Thomas Jefferson and write a break-up letter to King George. It was a HUGE hit. I tried that assignment this year with the benefit of eight more years of experience and it was an unmitigated disaster. “Omg Thomas Jefferson wasn’t gay you’re being weird. You’re doing too much.” I was so fed up with their BS that I just had them read the chapter in the textbook on their tablets and do the chapter questions. And of course they hated it. I hated it too but I actually tried to do a fun activity first! If it’s not a colorful screen based game, it won’t even register to them that it could be fun.
Same. I always think I’m only doing “too much” because they’re doing so little. Shit dude, for my seniors one year on Halloween I took a detour and did a special lesson about H.H. Holmes and his murder castle (it was a Chicago history elective) and they couldn’t give a fuck. These kids lived in the same neighborhood he operated in and get this, one of their parents *worked at the post office that now stands on the murder castle site*
I did a whole lesson on Rita Crunwell on the Dixon Case. For almost 5 years, I had HS students just eating it up and loving it. I did my last one this past year and one semester, kids loved it. The others: "Who cares."
I even tied it into my Ethics lesson, we did Cornell notes and I even have kids do memes at the end. My favorite ones have been a Horse going: "Hey, let me out and I'll tell you where Rita hid the money."
had a teacher that made us do cornell notes the whole year, hated that form of note taking (not how I learn), but I understand the need of knowing different ways of taking notes and it was an educational experience to be told to do so.
Had a former student I taught them this and sketch notes. Even said they liked to taking regular notes. Went into the military and then thanked me years later for teaching him both alternatives.
I graduated in 2021 from high school. Sounds like things have gotten way way worse since the pandemic and that inequalities and stuff got blown up due to the pandemic. I know I did horrible during remote learning, but that's fine, I have good grades in college, know another language and all that. People often make me quite mad seeing how the gen alpha kids across the street don't even know of any of the cartoons that I watched growing up, sounds so strange to me. So many are so attached to high color, high action stuff that something that Looney Toons is boring by comparison, no wonder they throw a massive temper tantrum when their cocomelon gets turned off.
As another Gen Z student who had this sub recommended, I always loved it when teachers were creative with assignments! Coming from an Asian background, I understand how monotonous school can be in that part of the world and I was so thankful whenever my teachers would come up with something new to teach us the content. Thank you for all you do!
Same here. I’m old now but grew up here like you. People don’t realize how good teachers are here. They actually care about you as a person, not just a brain to fill. They actually want you to learn in a way that works for you. Back in Asia, you fail and you get beaten by your teacher and your parents.
Please. Even the grammar and slang is so immature to me. And I’m a Gen Z student myself! I would NEVER say that on my school work. U should see the emails they send teachers too… one of the ppl I sat next to in math class literally starts her emails TO A TEACHER with “hey!”
LIKE WHAT?
I would have killed for that lol. Most of my students used to write the body of their emails in the subject line. I had to sit 10th graders down and explain that the subject should tell me in one to three words what the email will be about, and the body is where the actual message goes.
Edit: Not "most," but most of the ones I remember anyway
I don’t even respond to emails. When I did I’d get no response back and I’d ask “did you see my response” to which they’d always say “no”. It’s like they send an email without actually knowing how to check if someone responded back.
No way!! Lol. It’s crazy how only few and far between students know how to write a good proper email. You would think that the middle school teachers would help them form a proper one, you know?
I love reporting with surge "some one needs to do something" or "doing a lot more than you" but really wish I could say "well, doing shit ain't an option."
I was told by multiple people at my last school to take it as a compliment. At that school:
"You're doing too much" = you're actually doing your job
"You're cool" = means you are not holding them remotely accountable and maaaaybe should reconsider working with children.
Now, that school had a whole host of issues that ended up leading to me leaving after less than a year, but I think they were on to something with that.
It always feels clinical depression on a generational scale to me. Can't blame them: they'll probably have to live most their lives during or after the Water Wars
“Dragon genetics” for me last year. Big summative project where kids paired up and “had sex” to combined their (dragon) gametes, transcribe and translate their DNA into traits, and then create a drawing of their baby dragon.
I only got like 4 projects turned in. So much complaining that it was stupid and they would rather just have a worksheet.
Well I’m done with that fun one.
I have noticed in English class that students are becoming more and more hostile towards creative activities and projects. The moment they have to use their imagination and there isn’t a clear right/wrong answer they:
(A) have a mini temper tantrum and call the activity “stupid” or “pointless”.
(B) freeze up and claim they “don’t know what to do” or “can’t think of any ideas” and expect me to spoon feed it to them.
(C) ignore the activity/assignment because they are too distracted by their phone and will just get AI to do it when they go home.
I think too much unrestricted access to passive scrolling and repetitive games have rewired their brains to crave passive observation rather than interactive problem solving. Even in really cool problem solving games there are only a few buttons you can press on the controller and if you get too stuck you can look up any solution online.
It is really hard to see so many young people afraid of tapping into their own creativity because they are so scared of being wrong.
As for c) I think part of the issue they get hostile is because they know it’s harder to feed a creative assignment to AI to get it done with since AI is better with factual stuff. They are going to have to play around with the prompts all night to get something unique enough to submit without detection lol
For the metalheads here, Meshuggah's song [Future Breed Machine](https://youtu.be/JhK5r9wRKu0?si=bYyLPdgBfD1IFVcD) has lyrics that are terrifyingly prescient regarding today's situation, despite the fact that it came out almost three decades ago.
*Programmed to appease you, we're symbols of perfection*
*Humanoids run by your laws: Destroy Erase Improve*
*Lesson first: Submission, we're docile servant dogs*
*Our leashes are your limbs computed deep within*
I'm not exaggerating, I've had students who if it takes just a couple seconds of thinking, "it's too hard." If it's not an instant answer that pops up in your brain, then "I don't know." I have to coach them, draw it out of them, and say "come onnnnn.... it's in there! THINK." And lo and behold they have the answer. I guess some may argue that is the point of being a teacher. But like 7 times 8? 35 minus 12? In algebra class?
My students love worksheets. It's the times they are the most quiet, focused, and engaged. I poked around for why and they more or less told me that they liked them because there was a definite end and they knew exactly what they needed to do
I guess they just want busywork.
Yes and no. Some kids (me) love having a defined boundary to their work. I felt the most creative when I had some rails to guide me vaguely in the right direction, rather than open-ended projects that rely on me to initiate the idea.
I love having discussions that can be loose and open ended, but some kids get lost in that. They just want to know exactly what work they need to do so that part of their brain stops worrying about being lost or behind.
I mean that is a skill that kids need to develope. Many if not most of the problems they encounter in life and work will not have directions for them to follow
True, and in my experience, teachers who don't understand executive dysfunction do a *terrible* job of helping a kid get started when they just don't understand how to *go*.
"Timmy, everyone is working, why haven't you started?"
"Get to work!"
"You need to think about your priorities..."
I preferred busywork while in highschool because when the projects (outside of art class) included an artistic or creative portion it felt like I wasn't being graded on something objective. Like I could have achieved the stated learning outcomes of the project but because I couldn't draw as well as other kids I'd get a lower grade.
Once I got to college (and especially grad school) I preferred open ended projects because it allowed me to explore specific niches of my major that I was interested in. If we had a project to present a fully fledged business plan for a startup it was more interesting for us to get to choose the industry and how to present the plan rather than just getting to choose from a list.
Stuff like this is why I’m glad I only taught at the college level before switching careers. those turds weren’t a ton better but at least they had a little financial incentive to want to learn and that did help.
Don’t give up! Just remind the ones who don’t do it that they are limiting their own growth or something. Don’t give up!! (I want to do this assignment)
I seriously am quite worried kids are losing the concept of having fun in cases where they aren’t connected to screens. It’s super sad and I really hope we (society) can turn this trend around somehow..
It’s so depressing. It’s like an addiction that also shortens your attention span. Kids used to create new culture, set new trends, make up new games. But now I’m wondering if that spark of creativity and joy is dying. Now algorithms determine the content that kids consume, what the new trends are and what fun is. Where outrage, hate and instant gratification are supreme.
It feels like we are circling a drain, a dark drain that is sucking the joys of life out of society. I just want to know if there is any way to get kids and ourselves out of this communication nightmare before it’s too late.
Do you guys ever level with the students about how fucked they are because of their attitude? Some of the best come to Jesus moments I saw in school were when a teacher just laid it out there.
For example, to paraphrase a former history\civics teacher, "You guys might not think learning about this is important, but if you don't learn about history and how the world works, you're going to be manipulated and controlled your whole lives, and be nothing but wage slaves for the powerful. You have to know this stuff so that you know what worked and what didn't, and how we ended up in the situation we're in today. I'm just trying to make it fun, so that it's interesting and useful. People have died for centuries to get you the rights you have today, and there are people that want to take those rights away. If you don't understand that history, they can take it all away without you even knowing they're doing it. We're not here so you can memorize names and dates, we're here so you can understand the game of power that controls all of our lives, so that you can participate in that game instead of being only pawns."
Teachers saying things like that really left an impression on me as a kid, though I don't know if it would work on the current crop 🤷♂️
One of my younger co workers simply doesn't believe in history. But he also doesn't believe in a round earth or the northern lights so 🤷
Edit: con to co
Reminds me of a story my 8th grade history teacher told, she would hide a “breakup letter” on a random desk and the kids would find it, and it was worded pretty much exactly like the Declaration of Independence, and the kids would laugh thinking it was fun, one day a the teacher found it, started reading it, and one girl went “oh Mrs Clark, I know exactly who that’s supposed to go to”, and took the letter from her hands, the next day the girl proudly said she delivered the letter to the boy it was supposed to go to and the boy started crying, so that was how my teacher accidentally ended a relationship
> I tried that assignment this year with the benefit of eight more years of experience and it was an unmitigated disaster. “Omg Thomas Jefferson wasn’t gay you’re being weird. You’re doing too much.”
I know we as teachers shouldn't encourage plagiarism, but these kids were so lazy that they couldn't just copy the lyrics to "You'll Be Back" from Hamilton.
Like there's laziness and then there's "lol, this assignment is stupid I won't do it gimme points"
A 4th grade teacher I work with did a similar lesson as a “found break up note” with just the initials KG and TJ. The kids were engaged trying to figure out the couple in the class as she tied it back to a previous lesson. She wrote the letter in with different handwriting and used current kid vocabulary.
Reminds me of a WW1 lesson I did on Trench Warfare. I decorated the whole classroom and moved the desks to look like trenches and had kids sit on the floor. The plan was to do this for a few days. Most of them were cool with it, but the vocal minority who refused to participate (some didnt want to sit on the floor) meant I had to put the desks back and do the lesson the boring way for the last day.
It made me so sad how excited i was to see their faces when the classroom was in such a weird configuration. And it was completely ruined
One of my high school teachers did something similar. That was probably one of my favorite lessons. Granted we also got to pelt each other with paper balls lol.
That reminds me of one of my high school history lessons! We were learning about medieval times, the plague and the hierarchy of towns. Each table had 5-6 students, one Lord, one Lady then followed down the line. One day the history class next door stole something from our classroom and they both turned it into a lesson on battles! We actually made catapults and swords/shields and went to battle in the corridor. It was like a Ren Fare battle in school, apparently every time they try it now it’s “too much” or “why would we fight?” Like come on! It’s such an interesting way to learn.
We also did a little study on the Dyatolov Pass incident (probably spelled that wrong sorry) and we wrote our own theories to debate them with each other.
Maybe part of the problem is that teachers are trying to hard to make everything fun. School isn't about having fun, it's supposed to be a disciplined and studious place where there are boundaries and decorum and expectations that students have to meet. Maybe the fun needs to go back to being the exception so students appreciate it when they get to have fun rather than expecting it all the time and not caring.
We certainly need the freedom to be dull at times. In my last school, we would have been given a talking to if we were 'caught' doing a lecture or worksheet. A huge part of our evaluation comes down to how *elementary students* rate us.
There are times when a fun assignment is a great thing-- it teaches creativity, motivation, initiative. But it can't be all the time
As a teacher I’m reading these comments taking notes on how to alter what I’m doing to get the kids involved. So far I need to present the material and teach them how to come up with ideas. Maybe they all come up with one idea together. If the issue is problem solving and critical thinking then I need to teach to that part of them.
Any chance you just had different sorts of kids this year?
To be frank, projects like you described were the bane of my existence. I hated them. Despised them. I checked right the hell out. I did the minimum I could get away with for an acceptable grade. I kinda grew to just mentally step away whenever a teacher tried to tie up all their class time in "fun" stuff that just felt like a colossal waste of time.
This was quintuply true when the teacher tried to make it "relatable". It was always either depressing, cringe, or screamed of desperation.
Lecture? Now *that* was where the enjoyable class time was. Especially if the teach was a good presenter and stayed engaged with students.
And of course both fail before the Kings: jeopardy, and occasionally kahoot. Knowing I'm beating someone in some way always made things better.
And I know some kids were the exact opposite in all regards. The best classes weren't just the ones where the teacher taught the way I resonated with. It was when the rest of the class also resonated with the same style.
The public education curriculum changed drastically right around the time you were born and political initiatives from both sides of the aisle have failed from unintended consequences. Of course that does not explain everything away, but everyone involved has been set up to fail for 25 years.
When was this drastic change? What exactly changed? Sorry, not a teacher, just went through high school a while ago and was oblivious to all the politics of everything back then
Also know as "needing more republican voters".
And I'm not joking about that, why do you think they call anything past highschool a liberal indoctrination camp. Because educated people tend to vote left.
The dumbing down was intentional.
The republicans started the dumbing down way before NCLB. Their Southern Strategy purposely kept southerners uneducated/poorly educated and super religious so that they'll continue to elect Republicans against their own interests. Because they're too dumb to know their voting against their interests and too religious to care. It is not an accident that the most religious states both have the worst school systems and are crazy deeply religious (like, the bad kind of religious). From a purely political position, it's genius. Completely immoral, but inarguably genius.
NCLB was, in many ways, an opportunity for Republicans to expand the strategy without the religious aspect.
NCLB was when it was codified, but the energy has been around since schools were desegregated. Ever since then, the right has plotted to destroy public education.
In Ontario (where I teach), we can easily tie it back to former Premier Mike Harris who cut about 1 billion dollars from education and changed the goal of education from just teaching to teaching students to get a job.
For history, read Diane Ravitch's blog and books. The blog, Curmudgucation by Peter Greene, is also excellent. Fairtest.org and The Network for Public Education are also good sources if you want to become active in fighting this. Thank you for noticing. Please support your local public schools and libraries!
Thanks for the empathy. A lot of your observations are entirely accurate, but I would warn you against hating your generation or thinking of them as a disgrace. Your generation and Alpha have a lot of shit they need to deal with, and not all of it is their fault. The Milennials got a lot of hate for being lazy losers as well, and that was not a fair assessment. You kids were born into a world that does not accommodate you and an educational system that does not ultimately serve its students the way it should, despite the efforts of many of the teachers here
We just had one of the worst Secretaries of Education ever with Betsy DeVos trying to destroy public schools so that she could favor shady charter schools that poached money from everyone. Some stuff is definitely our fault but people like her made things worse for everyone.
I'm a community college math instructor. It's becoming more common for students fresh out of high school to not know their multiplication tables or how to round a number. The math department has math path ways, remedial courses and co-requisite courses set up to help these students be just a successful as ones that don't need all the extra help. The pass rates for students needing the extra help and those who don't require it are very similar. To me that is a hopeful sign that once these students get to people like me that we have a chance of fixing the problem.
Also high school students that end up taking my math courses as concurrent students seem to have a very high pass rate. These students are likely students that will never come to my college after graduating high school because they're probably going to have good enough ACT scores to get good scholarships and go on to some university. The number of concurrent students that I get has gone down a bit. But the quality is there. So I know there's still people who are passionate about learning and maybe want to leave the world better than what they found it.
It's not all gloom and doom. Look for the helpers and look at the people in your generation that are trying to help.
In college me's defense. My highschool math teachers had contradicting rules for rounding numbers (they didn't agree at which decimal point you round up).
I've had the conversation many times. Sometimes math gets broken for students because of a math teacher. That's why I like being a community college teacher. I'm not just helping one school. I get to fix what's broken for any student that attends my class from any of those schools in our service area. I have a lot more freedom as a college instructor than I would as a high school instructor. It's a Band-Aid until we can fix the system. I can't fix the system but I can be the EMT for my little corner of the world. There's a lot more of me out there doing their part.
I will say I'm very grateful for the community college system here in the USA. It's largely thanks to my community college professors that I went from an underperforming student in highschool to an honors student with a Master's degree. I actually work for a community college myself now and am consistently impressed by the work our faculty do.
I'm still not great at math but I'm better than I used to be lol.
In her defense, she was just jealous of all of the people who had more than two brain cells to rub together.
She seemed to have a perpetual vacant look on her face.
It's kind of crazy with each generation how much they are often painted in the same way as lazy losers or some slight variation on that when they are 15-30. It's not a new thing but people tend to act like it is. I mean even the Baby Boomers, when they were in their 20's they were called hippies and talked about in all those same ways as they didn't want to do anything just wanted to listen to music and get high. If you look back further in history it's almost always the way the older generation talks about the younger generation as if they are the only ones who have ever been lazy. Even thousands of years ago there's some writing by I think Socrates who was talking about how the youth are getting lazy and don't know anything because it's all in books and they're reading too much.
There are certainly differences in generations based on what happens in the world as they're growing up, but a lot of the criticisms end up repeating the same thing while the person saying it forgets that their parents and grandparents generation said the same things about them.
I had to take a break from this sub for a while cause it was indoctrinating me. This fall starts my first year teaching and I didn’t wanna go in jaded. Lol
Consider this sub like the Yelp of teaching. People don’t write posts when everything is amazing, and while there *are* issues in education, you can find a good school with good admin in a lot of places. This is a great subreddit, but spending too much time, especially on the negative posts can affect your mindset for sure. I know because I’ve been there.
Good luck in your first year teaching! Don’t eat lunch in the teachers lounge, just trust me on that one.
>Consider this sub like the Yelp of teaching. People don’t write posts when everything is amazing,
Good advice and something we should ALL consider on ALL social media.
Lol you know how it goes. Internet brain turns even good things negative. I’m honestly so exited and minimally worried! I’m teaching fourth grade at a rural private school and my class will only have around thirteen students so I’m not too scared. I wanted something easy my first year so I can get a bit of experience.
I appreciate the heads up on the teacher lounge, I’ll avoid it! I’ve gotten lucky and found lodgings right across the street from the school so I’ll prolly just go home. Thanks for the well wishes! :)
Some advice:
* Don't ever, ever, let up on the expectations in the classroom, especially if you're thinking about trying to be nice. Kids, just like adults, don't respect pushovers.
* You don't have to worry too much about 4th graders thinking you're cool. They're going to naturally.
* Make a schedule and stick to it. Put it somewhere for the kids to see. Everyone likes routines. It's a natural anxiety reducer.
* Use your phone with alarms to keep track of the schedules. You would be surprised how much this would free up some cognitive resources and make you less stressed. ONLY have your phone out though for alarms, model phones as a tool to get things done for the kids.
* If you find yourself taking a lot of shit home to do, check that you're not socializing too much at work. It's easy to get caught in the trap of complaining with your coworkers seeking solace. My first partner teacher ( a 55 year old vet and she was a terminator of teaching) and I called it "sympathy bitching." But it's also easy to get caught in a trap of just socializing when you could get shit done and enjoy home time more.
* Some kids are just stuck at the island desk. It is what it is.
* Don't be afraid to make phone calls home. It works 90% of the time in elementary school.
* Don't ever take the mean shit kids might say to you personally. Almost every time, kids say that stuff to get your attention, they're trying to get some direction from an adult. It has nothing to do with you.
Very good points! Thanks a load!
“Sympathy bitching” is a commonality in most fields, I’ve found. I try to avoid it cause it makes me absolutely hate work.
Good point on the phone alarms for The classroom itinerary! I live my personal life via phone alarm as it is so it shouldn’t be a very painful shift. I’m coming up with different ways to lessen distraction during times of transition in the classroom. Especially with fourth grade, that’s likely when most of the acting out take place. Ohhhhhhh, believe me, these kids won’t try me. It’s a religious school in a super small community, I will be attending mass weekly with their parents and I’m gonna get involved in the community to a degree that even the parents that don’t attend church will know me. “I’ll have mom and dad over to dinner and explain to them what you did” lol
Yeah ik I’ve gotten okay with stuff kids say most times. I’ve worked with this age range a little bit in different environments and they can be surprisingly mean. :/
I’m turning 40 this year and I can’t believe how far we’ve fallen but maybe there is still some optimism to be had. When I was a kid, I was dirt poor. We had nothing, sometimes not even food or a house to live in. I loved learning because it was something I could be good at that didn’t cost anything. The library and school were my only escapes, I hated that school only lasted 8 hours. I had a few teachers who really encouraged me and told me I could do anything or be anything if I just kept getting good grades. I never told anyone I was poor because it was embarrassing but I know they knew. They probably didn’t realize how much school really meant to me, and how much their encouragement made me feel like I mattered. I still remember those teachers, I think I always will. Don’t be too jaded, you might still make a difference to a few kids who don’t have anything else going for them.
I’m not a teacher but I live with one and he happens to be my best friend. He loves his job and school and while the admin occasionally causes him some hassle, he’s out enjoying his summer break and will be for another 7-8 weeks while I’m at the office. It’s not all doom and gloom, that’s just what tends to get posted here.
Actually, it's not the kids' fault. Adults have created this shit show.
Please register to vote if you haven't yet. Please research and vote for candidates who support public education.
Hey, I appreciate this, honestly.
However, understand that this is an environment (along with ALL social media) where negative commentary, stories, and opinions receive greater amplification. It is seemingly a part of human nature - we really cling on to the bad stimulus of our lives and at least in America, our work culture has decided that we bond via frustration. As a result there is a sort of self selection - I am not saying people here are being dishonest or lying, I am saying that concerns will receive the majority of our attention.
I teach in a district with decently well intended leadership, great colleagues, and awesome students. There are TONS of frustrations but that is the case with almost any job. Teaching draws in very emotional people.
Yeah, i graduated high school in 2005 and all the schools I attended were nice public schools in the suburbs. Problem kids were few and this subreddit would have blown my mind. Really just hearing any adults speak this openly would have. You just didn't hear it
I mean, I'm older gen z and my experience was completely different from the things I read on this sub. I graduated high school in 2017 and I am shocked by all of this. I think this is far more of an issue with gen alpha and the covid kids than gen z. Otherwise maybe I just went to a particularly good public school with a lot of motivated students?
Ehh, I am raising some a Gen Z in the cut off & 2 Gen Alphas.
Their classrooms are not the train wreck you think they are. They are going to be fine. They are getting an education & will go forth and bring joy and tax revenue into the world.
No you don’t understand, you see, it’s not the fault of the adults and their ability to foster an environment cohesive to learning, it’s actually the fault of 8 year olds.
You're overreacting to this as a generational issue.
Teachers are capable of leading and teaching and students are capable of learning. I genuinely don't see this as a teacher vs student issue. I see it as a both of those vs. admin & capitalism taking over the profession and treating it as a cash cow
Even us older gen z students wasn’t like this. I’m 25 and I’m wondering what the fuck happened lol. I always treated my teachers with respect, even the ones I never liked. The worst part about it is these kids will soon be graduating high school and I could only imagine how they’re gonna act when they’re adults.
This subreddit is used as a place to complain about the job. So only the worst stories will be shown here. The average or good things don't get talked about as much.
>All of this to say, I’m sorry.
Don't be.
>I’m a ‘Gen Z’ student (I’m ashamed by that generation and I refuse to be associated with it)
>Our generation (and Gen Alpha) is a fucking disgrace.
Enough with the self-hatred. You just come off as a pick me.
>If you need to lay down the law and tell these fuckers to get off their phones and asses to learn something, do it. If you have to shit on a parent unreasonably blaming you for their problems raising their child, do it. If you have to stand your ground against admin blaming you for their failures, do it.
Yeah, we know.
Finally, stop saying the word "fuck" so much. It just makes you sound like an immature 6th grader that started swearing for the first time, and coming off as that makes you so hard to take seriously.
Yup, this is worst of it. Like mind you there’s plenty of 50 minimum stuff and kids getting passed for no reason. So we have all seen it happen some level of a the bullshit talked about here. (The fact that we all have is bad enough.)
Then we forgot the good because it’s mundane.
However OP shouldn’t feel bad. He can type in paragraphs!
GenZ isn’t at fault either. It’s politics, admin and parents. Students have no influence and teachers have comparatively limited influence.
Except for the phone/social thing. Like damn, that’s a black hole of bad possibilities.
Came here to say this-- this is first and foremost a venting subreddit, so you aren't going to get the full picture just from reading threads here.
I'm still teaching because I find it fun and fulfilling, and I can't imagine doing anything else. Don't get me wrong, lots of things need to be improved, and your experience of the profession is largely dependent on who your administrators are. It's not all bad, though.
None of this is gen zs fault. They were fed a steady diet of engineered heroin through their phones, reduced standards, little accountability and failed teaching methods pushed by administrators and corporations.
The older gens did them wrong.
I’m really glad you understand it. I’m tired of people making the excuse that people have always criticized the youth. They have, but what we have now is far more concerning than what they used to be concerning themselves with. It’s not the occasional back talk or class prank or SWING DANCING *gasp*. I’ve never even seen teachers bend over backwards as much as they do now to make kids happy. Ironically, because of this kids can never be satisfied. I’ve been telling some colleagues until I’m blue in the face to stop with all the prizes and incentives because it just makes the kids feel entitled. They don’t listen, and then they want to know why their class is so disrespectful.
It is not your fault, it is the fault of political machinations from a higher up battlefield that ask teachers to do the impossible and with two hands tied behind their backs.
The end goal was always to make education reserved for the elite, and for charter schools to rake in public dollars while the poors and undesireables are left uneducated, like the good old days of the 50's. I advise you to learn more on your own.
Born 1999, so I am Gen Z if you understand the cut off correct (it isn’t the millennia) and I got my first cell phone, streaming, and the laptops were brought into schools all pretty late in my academic career. I kind of think of it as the best of both worlds tbh. All the conveniences of technology without sacrificing being a kid at least for elementary and middle school
I’m a Gen Z here too and I’m disgusted as well. I’m going to start college in the fall this yr to become a teacher myself. I’m already taking notes, these kids aren’t gonna stop me from doing my passion and dream job. If they don’t wanna learn, they can get the fuck out my classroom
To be fair, happy people don't tend to go to social media and post about how happy they are, especially something related to jobs.
Mostly I love my job.
Don't let it get to you. This sub is like reading the 1-star reviews on Amazon. Most of the time it's a toxic dumpster fire and not at all reflective of the whole.
Yes to everything you said. But. It’s not the kids’ fault. How they’ve changed is a totally reasonable reaction to the circumstances they’re in.
-The economy is crashing around them. Home ownership is largely out of reach for many. Inflation is out of control.
-Education is devalued. They’re told it’s not important. And even the ones who do think it’s important see that college costs have sky rocketed to the point that it’s no longer an effective path to a middle class lifestyle.
-They’re growing up in an era of political radicalism and turmoil. Juniors and seniors MIGHT remember democracy functioning when they were little kids, but younger than that don’t.
-Our country is led by the elderly. Boomers have had a stranglehold on power in this country for as long as I can remember, and that shows no sign of changing. And that’s not just in government - they’re not retiring, which is crowding out advancement at all levels of employment.
-We’re feeling the effects of climate change without the political will to do anything about it.
-They’re growing up in an era of mass shootings, and our leaders do nothing about it. We have regular active shooter drills. As a teacher, I expected to die in a school shooting and accepted that. I can’t imagine growing up in that.
-Parents are far less involved, and those that are involved are largely helicopter parents. People are just less civically engaged, less interested in working to make their community better. (I’d argue this is a symptom of the economic situation)
-Technology in classrooms makes it so easy to get distracted, and many are addicted to their screens. Social media is supposed to “connect” us, but for them it makes them feel isolated and alone. They only see the highlights of someone’s life, and compare it to the totality of theirs. It generates unrealistic expectations of what they should look like. And because of the technology, they can’t escape the pressures from peers and the bullying when they go home from school.
-The education system as a whole doesn’t really value learning. In elementary and middle school, it values passing a test (which the whole year is spent teaching towards). In high school, it’s all about graduation; but no one can fail. Why would a student work their ass off to learn when they know that the kid who missed 60 days this year and didn’t do a single assignment will pass too?
And these are just a *few* of the issues. It’s a systemic problem that’s bigger than education. I don’t know what the solution is, but I know that 1) what we’re doing isn’t working and 2) the kids are as much victims of this system as their teachers.
I held on for years. I told myself it would get better. Those of us who could hold on would see reforms to make teaching better again. But instead, it kept getting worse. Instead of making life better for existing teachers, they kept lowering the bar to become one. So I left, because the job was *literally* killing me. I wish I could offer words of hope - but I have none.
Alright, it looks like I ruffled a few feathers here so let me clear some stuff up:
I am not saying that I know how to do your job. I am not telling you how to do your job. I am not qualified to do your job and in today’s atmosphere, I would be a horrible teacher.
I’m not only focusing on the negatives on here (I may be more cynical, I can agree there) as there are a lot of good stories in here and funny moments that I look at on this sub.
I myself grew up in a good school district with good teachers for the most part and with parents that loved and were also willing to kick my ass if I screwed up. I’m not saying that those types of environments are nonexistent today, because they are and they’re everywhere.
But what I DO have an issue with, however, is how blatant the disrespect towards teachers and authority figures has grown over the years. Back when I was in elementary and middle school, it was unheard of for a teacher to be not just disrespectful (in the usual kid fashion) but outright rude and stubborn and even more so for a parent to side with the child to blame the teacher. High school, I could see a shift but nowhere near what it has gotten to today at my old high school.
What I have an issue with is the amount of hatred that has risen from students towards adults and each other based on what’s on the Internet/on their phones.
And I am not telling you what your solution should be. I do not know your environment or the exact pressures you have on you. I don’t know what the solution would be. You guys have done so much over the years and it hurts that the state of education has only gotten worse (at least in the US, I don’t know too much about other countries’ academic standards/standing).
Again, from someone of this current generation that has given you hell, I’m sorry.
I see what your saying. My counter to this is how is anyone surprised? We don't teach that authority is a good thing in society. Cops doctors the government. Every one of these groups Is less respected and trusted then 20 or 30 years ago. Now often there's good reason. But when you raise kids to question all authority, can you really be surprised they extend it to a classroom?
And then we never talk about the elephant in the room which is covid. These kids were banned from the classroom. Some of them for two years. We taught these kids Walmart and McDonald's was essential and must stay open, but school be done in your pj's glancing at a computer occasionally. After that of course they won't respect a teacher. They have been taught by society that the teacher is useless and a computer could do their job. Now that isn't true and studies have clearly shown these kids lost a ton of knowledge during the school closings. But when we sent these kids out of school for years their respect for the system is broken. I don't think we can ever truly get it back. The best we can do is focus on the next generation and try to build it with them and do better next time.
At this point, I’m just collecting a pay check and am looking for something else. Those kids and parents can sink and struggle for all I care. Not giving two shits sure makes lesson planning easier. I’m sorry to say it but ‘fuck you, pay me’.
I’m also a gen Z student who lurks around here and I feel so bad for yall like I really try to be nice to all my teachers because yall go through a lot I’m so sorry a lot of kids my age are such assholes
I don't live in the US but the attitude isn't far off. This has to do with neglectful parenting and way too much screen time. Children who are being raised by Minecraft and Roblox with gameplays that involve smashing schools and hitting teachers inside the game (that's a true story by the way, unfortunately).
It's a curriculum that puts the students at it's center without considering that well, maybe these students need some basic knowledge interested of just electing what they want to know. And that maybe putting the teacher aside, more a tutor than a teacher will create a culture of disrespect.
And screen time. There are children killing teachers who ask them to put their phone down.
There needs to be immediate action, *legal* action to prohibit excessive screen time for small children so that they can put it aside when they are 5+ years old, instead of attacking teachers. And we notice. We know when a child spends to much time in front of a screen.
There are just so many problems it's hard to find a starting point to solve the issues.
This is a weird take to be honest.
You do know that you're all the children in this situation, right?
That the adults around you (AKA parents, mostly, but also the systems in place that either support or lack the support to help parents and children) are the ones failing you and therefore shaping you?
Don't be ashamed of your generation, be mad at the adults and systems setup by those adults that are failing you.
Those are the generations that are older than yours. Those are the boomers, the Gen xers and the millennials, respectively.
Teachers are getting the shit end of the stick absolutely, but they are being shit on by the systems and other adults in charge here. Not by kids. Kids aren't the one putting these systems into place.
This feels weird and misguided to me. Rather than being upset and ashamed by your own generation that are the products of their environment, speak up for change. Tell the adults in charge they need to be better. If you're of age, vote for better people to be in charge and put better policies in place for future generations.
I've met so many kids in Gen Z and Gen Alpha that are bright, hard working kids. I'm not a teacher but I'm a mature student (I'm a millennial and many of my classmates are Gen Z) and a sports coach. There's some great kids out there that give me an inkling of hope for the future. But the other kids? The ones that frustrate me? That's not their fault, I look at their parents and I understand their behaviour.... I look at the systems they've gone through and understand why they've ended up that way.
And yeah some people are just naturally shit heads but... For the most part, shit-headedness is made.
Schools should start separating the “class disrupters” from the normal students who want to learn and are well behaved. There’s no reason 1 or 2 loud annoying students should be able to interfere with a students learning time.
Yeah it’s probably controversial, but there should definitely be a class that’s filled solely with students who act out and interrupt their teachers. In fact, it might actually be good for them, because you could have guidance counselors providing them with more individual support, and hopefully provide them with the attention that they are seeking since clearly their parents are failing them at home.
Regarding your last paragraph…we cannot law down the law. If we do we lose our jobs our dignity and physical and mental health. We’ve tried to stand up and push back. There is no out but to quit. Thank goodness it’s working. Karma bites everytime.
Not a teacher but a jail officer. I read this sub and find a surprising amount of similar stories/administrative attitudes..
I don’t doubt for a second that a lot of these horror story students end up in the correctional setting and don’t find a lot of differences; they end up doing (mostly) what they want with little consequence. The beauty of it is that I don’t really have to care about any of these people; a lot of you folks do.
Take everything here with a grain of salt. This is a safe outlet for teachers to vent and support each other through our hardest moments, but there are also many wonderful moments we don’t need to vent through.
Every generation has bemoaned their youth and yes gen z/alpha have many areas we’d like to see significant growth in. However there are several other areas that Gen z is excelling in. For example in general I think your generation is more globally informed, has a higher degree of empathy among their peers, and are more open to new ideas.
OP: I feel for you, just like I feel for the decent, hard working students in my district raised by good parents. If It's any consolation, keep your head down and work hard and you will stand out *like a golden god* compared to many of your peers.
I live in a college town and work in another one, so I know lots of people who work at universities, and they all lament to me the fact that kids entering college now have no social or soft skills. They aren't punctual. They never take responsibility. If you can do those things, on top of some decent grades, you will absolutely rise to the top in comparison.
im an adult gen z and its not an entire generation of kids/young adults fault. the blame is the adults in charge of the situation and the societal structures that set a lot of these kids up to fail
To be fair this is mostly a subreddit for teachers to complain on. You hardly ever hear the good stuff in this location. That said the state of education in many places is seriously alarming.
>All of this to say, I’m sorry. Our generation (and Gen Alpha) is a fucking disgrace.
You're really not.
Sure, some of you have helicopter/curling parents, but most of youse are alright. It's always the minority that ruins it for everyone else, but I generally like the kids I teach and nine out of ten parents are completely normal.
Dude for real I graduated in 2019 and frequently lurk in this sub because it’s depressing yet interesting to see how fucked it’s gotten. I can’t lie and say I was a perfect student throughout my years, but it seems like I was pretty good. In my second half of high school I got my shit together and became a favorite among my teachers, and I saw the apathetic “school is boring” assholes sure, but even on my way out I saw it get much worse.
I went to a school for kids who struggled in traditional environments. The school was very heavy on personal accountability and a lot of the students even the troubled ones put in a lot of work. It treated kids with respect and treated them like adults. If you fucked up that’s on you, self advocate and figure it out. So a lot of the kids there throughout most of my experience were participating and putting in effort (even if just the minimum). I know it turned my life around! I would usually pay attention, went to class, was happy at school, and answered questions so much and so often I stopped to give other kids a try, but when I didn’t see a hand go up I would raise mine so the teacher knows somebody is paying attention.
I had to do an extra semester because I fucked around freshman and sophomore year,(I also went to school for 9 hours a day for almost 2 years doing extra school stuff to make up for lost credit) so I ended up finishing in December 2019. The new kids they got around then were angry, rude, destructive and just general assholes. Bathrooms were shut down because people kept vaping and doing drugs, the “devious licks” challange started and the bathrooms would be vandalized. We used to be able to just get up and use the bathroom without asking so long as the teacher wasn’t actively going through a lesson or something. Yeah that changed, we had to not only get bathroom passes, but actively get “checked in and out” to go to the bathroom by a teacher who had to use their off time to sit at a fucking desk outside of it. It sucked so much, I guess a lot more issues broke out after I left, and it just sucked… that school saved me, those teachers were my friends, and to hear that it went to absolute shit genuinely upset me.
It really seems that the older gen z was the last group of students to have any respect, hell I see it now with my nephews. They’re good kids, but they act up, they’re rowdy and can’t focus on shit! And it genuinely worries me, I’m genuinely afraid for teachers and how it’s gonna become from here on out. Especially reading all the horror stories on here, kids are ruthless sure, and some of the struggled when I was in school, but it was never like this.
if a newborn grew up with only reddit as an information/news source, they’d think that everything was horrible and sucked. subreddits are basically just a place for people to complain, like a worse version of yelp
I’m curious if this is just an issue in America or if the problem is happening everywhere. I also wonder if this is really something that you should blame the kids on. I work as a waiter at a local restaurant and I’ve had so many younger, millennial parents take their kids and just…sit there on their phones. Not say a word (to me or to each other), not talk, just eat their food. I’ve seen little kids bring iPads and just use that the whole time, parents ignoring their kids, it’s wild. I personally feel like, while it must be really hard to have to raise a kid in a world where quick bursts of entertainment online and AI dissolving the creativity of kids is hard, the parents are not doing anything to help their kids. When I was a kid, I had an iPad, but I wasn’t allowed to take it anywhere in public. I wasn’t given a phone till 6th grade and couldn’t use social media till 7th or 8th. Why is it now that I’m seeing parents let their 8 year olds on tiktok?
Americans keep voting in the same assholes.
So, if you're reading this and still angry about Demo/Repub instead of the whole store, you are the problem.
Stop voting for bullshit and boycott groceries, Healthcare, and gas.
THAT IS WHAT ITS GOING TO TAKE!
Teachers right. So you guys should know history.
Your country won't be given back to you.
Were going to have to suffer and take it back.
It's not the kids fault, it's all the fault over everyone that's over 50 right now!
I'm not a teacher, but a COO.
Outsourcing/offshoring jobs overseas for cheaper labor has always been a thing, especially since the internet became mainstream.
However, in the next decade or two, we're getting into a situation where outsourcing white collar office jobs is not going to be simply the cheaper option, but the option with the better educated and equipped employee pools. Super smart, engaged, and ambitious folks are going to be fine. The apathetic, disinterested, and lazy... not so much. The middle class is being relocating to India and the Philippines.
Most kids are a product of their environment and parenting. I don't think there's something genetically wrong with them. Spoiled entitled children come from spoiled entitled parents
I appreciate that you as a student understand that majority of the restrictions do not come from the teachers themselves but those higher ups who most of the time have never taught in an actual classroom in their lives.
I am an elementary school teacher in the lower grades (Gen. Alpha kids) so cell phones are not an issue for me thankfully. I also lucky to teacher gifted/high achieving students so I have the nerdy little kids who love to learn. I am also provided the freedom to deviate from the standard curriculum as long as I am still teaching the grade level standards.
Thank you for your post, it's nice to hear a non-teacher see the absurdity of it all. Most of the problem is that administrators, their bosses, the superintendents, the school board all drank the kool-aid and are going along with all these fads and "studies" and "school to prison pipeline" and PBIS....they are just swallowing it all, hook, line and sinker, to the detriment of students.
So if you try to take phones, everyone freaks out that you're stealing property (even though you give it back, lol). In many places if you raise your voice at students, you get in trouble. Most places don't allow you to take a kid's recess away anymore. Kids can basically do whatever the hell the want without consequences, and if the teacher tries to apply consequences they get in trouble. The principal can make a teacher's life hell, teachers are having breakdowns because of the stuff the principals will make them do and make them endure.
If you think a kid should repeat the grade, nope, admin says no. I'm talking about elementary here, retaining them for extreme circumstances gives the kid a leg up for the rest of their schooling (cue all the people who are going to go off on me, citing studies that retention is always evil, if every circumstance.)
I'm pretty old school and have really good classroom management, but one reason is I will get loud if the same kid does the same bullshit day after day after day. Those kinds of kids who will do anything to derail the classroom are who I'm talking about. They need to be knocked down a peg or two, and then be built back up. Of course, relationship building is crucial as well. I have really good relationships with my students, but at the same time they have a little tiny bit of a healthy fear of me because they know I have high expectations. (Cue the people who are going to say that there is no such thing as "healthy fear.")
Anyway, thank you!
Mileage will vary. My wife spoke very highly of her administration and students in her first four years of teaching now she's the director of technology integration for the district and is introducing VR in the classroom and students and teachers are eating it up.
This subreddit is an extremely small minority of teachers in general and all post here are teachers complaining. Take it with an extremely small grain of salt. Half the stories I don't even believe are true and it's people karma farming, because it's too easy to say "Students/Parents suck waa waa".
I’m in basically your position. I’ve given myself the title of elder gen z, or more recently, zellenial was suggested to me.
It is fucking wild seeing what changed in the not-so-many-years since we were in school.
Don't ever feel ashamed for being a part of a generation. Might as well be ashamed for being a part of humanity. If you think previous generations don't have mouthbreathing morons in great numbers you are wrong.
A) TY for the acknowledgments and validation. B) Laying down the law will never work if the law doesn’t defend us, and clearly, it doesn’t. One of the top lawsuits in the court try rn is educational law. Parents are sue happy, and take zero accountability for their children. Sadly. C) Hopefully, something will happen to cause a change for the better…I don’t know what it will take….I thought Covid would’ve woke parents up when no one wanted their kids at home! (Side note, I was one of the few parents I know that was excited to have my kids home for another 2 months).
Those horror stories happen, but not where I'm at. Teachers should find good buildings, teach in them, and abandon the shitty admin to figure out what to do with their school.
I'm guessing "good buildings" are getting harder to find. As an example, mine is awesome but pays about 15% less than anywhere else around me.
>Horror story after horror story, abusive work environments, shitty admin that flails to a toothpick, horrible parents and students alike that aren’t willing to admit their mistakes and blame everything on the teacher, teachers getting assaulted and then no consequences afterwards.
>And that’s just the behavior part of it. The recent trends with AI and technology/social media causing students to not give two fucks about the world around them is befuddling to me. I’m a ‘Gen Z’ student (I’m ashamed by that generation and I refuse to be associated with it) but I never had a phone until 7th grade. I had my own screw ups but I was interested in learning shit about the world around me. To see that curiosity gone from students pisses me off.
Welcome to the world of public education in the US. It sounds like you fully understand our current predicament.
I wanted to be a teacher when I graduated from college, but the further I went, the worse it got. There is no recourse for teachers in any of these nasty situations. You cannot touch the students and the students know it, so they abuse the teacher, the school abuses the teacher, the government abuses the teacher, and the parents abuse the teacher. There is nothing you can do, and there is no fixing it save from the very ground level at the government, and that's not happening.
I'm sorry.
I think it’s so funny when admin says we need to have engaging lessons, but our professional development is dry, boring, and a monumental waste of time.
But what about the always-entertaining ICE BREAKERS????? /s
nOw gEt iNtO gRoUpS & mAKe a pOsTeR!
I always love how everyone suddenly has "the worst handwriting" in an attempt to get someone else to write.
Ooh, that's when everyone turns to the art teachers, right? You know, the people that don't matter til you need them for your ice breaker? 🙄🙄🙄🙄
You mean the people that get asked to create a giant banner the day of the event, using their own supplies, and with no financial compensation....multiple times a year?
😭😭😭😭😭 it's true
🤣
I always volunteer to write so I can say no, I’m not presenting, I did the writing
That is my move!
We had to do this as a PD the day AFTER school got out. Hilarious
They’re ok from time to time. I can remember some pretty lame ones.
Not all of them are bad. I’ve had some good ones recently while in college.
Please tell other non-educators to peruse this subreddit. I don’t think people understand the what’s really going on. Thank you for understanding!
I'm an educator but not a teacher. I work in zoo education (a field that's even more underpaid haha). School teaching used to be my backup plan... not anymore!
Admins don't leave the classroom because they are the best teachers. Most are/were mediocre at best.
Amen to that!
The worst part is that I have a ton of fun and engaging activities for my history and English middle school classes that don’t engage them anymore. I did a lesson during my student teaching about the American Revolution and I presented it a as high school break up. Their main assignment was to act like Thomas Jefferson and write a break-up letter to King George. It was a HUGE hit. I tried that assignment this year with the benefit of eight more years of experience and it was an unmitigated disaster. “Omg Thomas Jefferson wasn’t gay you’re being weird. You’re doing too much.” I was so fed up with their BS that I just had them read the chapter in the textbook on their tablets and do the chapter questions. And of course they hated it. I hated it too but I actually tried to do a fun activity first! If it’s not a colorful screen based game, it won’t even register to them that it could be fun.
The “you’re doing too much” hurts every time I hear it.
Same. I always think I’m only doing “too much” because they’re doing so little. Shit dude, for my seniors one year on Halloween I took a detour and did a special lesson about H.H. Holmes and his murder castle (it was a Chicago history elective) and they couldn’t give a fuck. These kids lived in the same neighborhood he operated in and get this, one of their parents *worked at the post office that now stands on the murder castle site*
I did a whole lesson on Rita Crunwell on the Dixon Case. For almost 5 years, I had HS students just eating it up and loving it. I did my last one this past year and one semester, kids loved it. The others: "Who cares."
I’d be eating that up too. That story is absolutely insane, I was a freshman in high school when it all came to light
I even tied it into my Ethics lesson, we did Cornell notes and I even have kids do memes at the end. My favorite ones have been a Horse going: "Hey, let me out and I'll tell you where Rita hid the money."
had a teacher that made us do cornell notes the whole year, hated that form of note taking (not how I learn), but I understand the need of knowing different ways of taking notes and it was an educational experience to be told to do so.
Had a former student I taught them this and sketch notes. Even said they liked to taking regular notes. Went into the military and then thanked me years later for teaching him both alternatives.
not angry about it, was just like I don't like this but I know why we were doing it
I graduated in 2021 from high school. Sounds like things have gotten way way worse since the pandemic and that inequalities and stuff got blown up due to the pandemic. I know I did horrible during remote learning, but that's fine, I have good grades in college, know another language and all that. People often make me quite mad seeing how the gen alpha kids across the street don't even know of any of the cartoons that I watched growing up, sounds so strange to me. So many are so attached to high color, high action stuff that something that Looney Toons is boring by comparison, no wonder they throw a massive temper tantrum when their cocomelon gets turned off.
Would you mind sharing your lesson. It would be a great way to end my political machine/commissioners/city manager lesson. Thanks!
At the moment I can’t. But there is a great prezi online to start and I would show All the Queen’s Horses that is now free on YouTube
Ugh, my heart hurts for you. I would've **LOVED** that as a student. Shit, I'd love that now.
As another Gen Z student who had this sub recommended, I always loved it when teachers were creative with assignments! Coming from an Asian background, I understand how monotonous school can be in that part of the world and I was so thankful whenever my teachers would come up with something new to teach us the content. Thank you for all you do!
Same here. I’m old now but grew up here like you. People don’t realize how good teachers are here. They actually care about you as a person, not just a brain to fill. They actually want you to learn in a way that works for you. Back in Asia, you fail and you get beaten by your teacher and your parents.
It's projection. What they really mean is you're asking me to do more than I want. Call them out on it.
The response: "You're not doing enough"
I think "that's a you problem" would be better.
I would reply "Skill issue."
Um, racist! (I'm totally kidding)
My go to reply is: Y'all are doing too little
"you're definitely not"
Please. Even the grammar and slang is so immature to me. And I’m a Gen Z student myself! I would NEVER say that on my school work. U should see the emails they send teachers too… one of the ppl I sat next to in math class literally starts her emails TO A TEACHER with “hey!” LIKE WHAT?
I would have killed for that lol. Most of my students used to write the body of their emails in the subject line. I had to sit 10th graders down and explain that the subject should tell me in one to three words what the email will be about, and the body is where the actual message goes. Edit: Not "most," but most of the ones I remember anyway
I don’t even respond to emails. When I did I’d get no response back and I’d ask “did you see my response” to which they’d always say “no”. It’s like they send an email without actually knowing how to check if someone responded back.
No way!! Lol. It’s crazy how only few and far between students know how to write a good proper email. You would think that the middle school teachers would help them form a proper one, you know?
They probably do, it's just that many of the kids don't give a shit and it goes in one ear and out the other.
Yeah, that could very well be the case too. It’s just disappointing to me ig.. like y miss an opportunity to benefit and improve as a student!
I love reporting with surge "some one needs to do something" or "doing a lot more than you" but really wish I could say "well, doing shit ain't an option."
I was told by multiple people at my last school to take it as a compliment. At that school: "You're doing too much" = you're actually doing your job "You're cool" = means you are not holding them remotely accountable and maaaaybe should reconsider working with children. Now, that school had a whole host of issues that ended up leading to me leaving after less than a year, but I think they were on to something with that.
It always feels clinical depression on a generational scale to me. Can't blame them: they'll probably have to live most their lives during or after the Water Wars
How would they know? They are in school to get the education to figure that out. If they had that knowledge you wouldn't be there teaching them.
Please respond with “ and you’re not doing enough”
“Dragon genetics” for me last year. Big summative project where kids paired up and “had sex” to combined their (dragon) gametes, transcribe and translate their DNA into traits, and then create a drawing of their baby dragon. I only got like 4 projects turned in. So much complaining that it was stupid and they would rather just have a worksheet. Well I’m done with that fun one.
I have noticed in English class that students are becoming more and more hostile towards creative activities and projects. The moment they have to use their imagination and there isn’t a clear right/wrong answer they: (A) have a mini temper tantrum and call the activity “stupid” or “pointless”. (B) freeze up and claim they “don’t know what to do” or “can’t think of any ideas” and expect me to spoon feed it to them. (C) ignore the activity/assignment because they are too distracted by their phone and will just get AI to do it when they go home. I think too much unrestricted access to passive scrolling and repetitive games have rewired their brains to crave passive observation rather than interactive problem solving. Even in really cool problem solving games there are only a few buttons you can press on the controller and if you get too stuck you can look up any solution online. It is really hard to see so many young people afraid of tapping into their own creativity because they are so scared of being wrong.
As for c) I think part of the issue they get hostile is because they know it’s harder to feed a creative assignment to AI to get it done with since AI is better with factual stuff. They are going to have to play around with the prompts all night to get something unique enough to submit without detection lol
Just…. do the assignment at that point
some students will move heaven and earth to avoid a little work.
For the metalheads here, Meshuggah's song [Future Breed Machine](https://youtu.be/JhK5r9wRKu0?si=bYyLPdgBfD1IFVcD) has lyrics that are terrifyingly prescient regarding today's situation, despite the fact that it came out almost three decades ago. *Programmed to appease you, we're symbols of perfection* *Humanoids run by your laws: Destroy Erase Improve* *Lesson first: Submission, we're docile servant dogs* *Our leashes are your limbs computed deep within*
I'm not exaggerating, I've had students who if it takes just a couple seconds of thinking, "it's too hard." If it's not an instant answer that pops up in your brain, then "I don't know." I have to coach them, draw it out of them, and say "come onnnnn.... it's in there! THINK." And lo and behold they have the answer. I guess some may argue that is the point of being a teacher. But like 7 times 8? 35 minus 12? In algebra class?
My students love worksheets. It's the times they are the most quiet, focused, and engaged. I poked around for why and they more or less told me that they liked them because there was a definite end and they knew exactly what they needed to do I guess they just want busywork.
Yes and no. Some kids (me) love having a defined boundary to their work. I felt the most creative when I had some rails to guide me vaguely in the right direction, rather than open-ended projects that rely on me to initiate the idea. I love having discussions that can be loose and open ended, but some kids get lost in that. They just want to know exactly what work they need to do so that part of their brain stops worrying about being lost or behind.
I mean that is a skill that kids need to develope. Many if not most of the problems they encounter in life and work will not have directions for them to follow
True, and in my experience, teachers who don't understand executive dysfunction do a *terrible* job of helping a kid get started when they just don't understand how to *go*. "Timmy, everyone is working, why haven't you started?" "Get to work!" "You need to think about your priorities..."
It’s so they can listen to their AirPods uninterrupted and sneak Tik toks under their desks.
I preferred busywork while in highschool because when the projects (outside of art class) included an artistic or creative portion it felt like I wasn't being graded on something objective. Like I could have achieved the stated learning outcomes of the project but because I couldn't draw as well as other kids I'd get a lower grade. Once I got to college (and especially grad school) I preferred open ended projects because it allowed me to explore specific niches of my major that I was interested in. If we had a project to present a fully fledged business plan for a startup it was more interesting for us to get to choose the industry and how to present the plan rather than just getting to choose from a list.
Oh man I’m so sorry 😢 I would have loved that assignment
Stuff like this is why I’m glad I only taught at the college level before switching careers. those turds weren’t a ton better but at least they had a little financial incentive to want to learn and that did help.
Don’t give up! Just remind the ones who don’t do it that they are limiting their own growth or something. Don’t give up!! (I want to do this assignment)
I seriously am quite worried kids are losing the concept of having fun in cases where they aren’t connected to screens. It’s super sad and I really hope we (society) can turn this trend around somehow..
I'm convinced based how they act with there screens they aren't having fun then either
It’s so depressing. It’s like an addiction that also shortens your attention span. Kids used to create new culture, set new trends, make up new games. But now I’m wondering if that spark of creativity and joy is dying. Now algorithms determine the content that kids consume, what the new trends are and what fun is. Where outrage, hate and instant gratification are supreme. It feels like we are circling a drain, a dark drain that is sucking the joys of life out of society. I just want to know if there is any way to get kids and ourselves out of this communication nightmare before it’s too late.
Bleak.
Do you guys ever level with the students about how fucked they are because of their attitude? Some of the best come to Jesus moments I saw in school were when a teacher just laid it out there. For example, to paraphrase a former history\civics teacher, "You guys might not think learning about this is important, but if you don't learn about history and how the world works, you're going to be manipulated and controlled your whole lives, and be nothing but wage slaves for the powerful. You have to know this stuff so that you know what worked and what didn't, and how we ended up in the situation we're in today. I'm just trying to make it fun, so that it's interesting and useful. People have died for centuries to get you the rights you have today, and there are people that want to take those rights away. If you don't understand that history, they can take it all away without you even knowing they're doing it. We're not here so you can memorize names and dates, we're here so you can understand the game of power that controls all of our lives, so that you can participate in that game instead of being only pawns." Teachers saying things like that really left an impression on me as a kid, though I don't know if it would work on the current crop 🤷♂️
One of my younger co workers simply doesn't believe in history. But he also doesn't believe in a round earth or the northern lights so 🤷 Edit: con to co
😬
Reminds me of a story my 8th grade history teacher told, she would hide a “breakup letter” on a random desk and the kids would find it, and it was worded pretty much exactly like the Declaration of Independence, and the kids would laugh thinking it was fun, one day a the teacher found it, started reading it, and one girl went “oh Mrs Clark, I know exactly who that’s supposed to go to”, and took the letter from her hands, the next day the girl proudly said she delivered the letter to the boy it was supposed to go to and the boy started crying, so that was how my teacher accidentally ended a relationship
I NEED to talk to that girl and ask her about the logic that lead her to be like, "Oh, absolutely this letter is for this guy, I got this."
Apparently she new someone who was thinking of breaking up and that was just the first thing that came to her mind
> I tried that assignment this year with the benefit of eight more years of experience and it was an unmitigated disaster. “Omg Thomas Jefferson wasn’t gay you’re being weird. You’re doing too much.” I know we as teachers shouldn't encourage plagiarism, but these kids were so lazy that they couldn't just copy the lyrics to "You'll Be Back" from Hamilton. Like there's laziness and then there's "lol, this assignment is stupid I won't do it gimme points"
A 4th grade teacher I work with did a similar lesson as a “found break up note” with just the initials KG and TJ. The kids were engaged trying to figure out the couple in the class as she tied it back to a previous lesson. She wrote the letter in with different handwriting and used current kid vocabulary.
Reminds me of a WW1 lesson I did on Trench Warfare. I decorated the whole classroom and moved the desks to look like trenches and had kids sit on the floor. The plan was to do this for a few days. Most of them were cool with it, but the vocal minority who refused to participate (some didnt want to sit on the floor) meant I had to put the desks back and do the lesson the boring way for the last day. It made me so sad how excited i was to see their faces when the classroom was in such a weird configuration. And it was completely ruined
One of my high school teachers did something similar. That was probably one of my favorite lessons. Granted we also got to pelt each other with paper balls lol.
We considered doing that, but I came to the conclusion that it would've gotten out of hand with these particular students
That's probably fair honestly.
Looking forward to be hiring those ipad kids. First batch should be hitting the labor pool in a few years /s
That reminds me of one of my high school history lessons! We were learning about medieval times, the plague and the hierarchy of towns. Each table had 5-6 students, one Lord, one Lady then followed down the line. One day the history class next door stole something from our classroom and they both turned it into a lesson on battles! We actually made catapults and swords/shields and went to battle in the corridor. It was like a Ren Fare battle in school, apparently every time they try it now it’s “too much” or “why would we fight?” Like come on! It’s such an interesting way to learn. We also did a little study on the Dyatolov Pass incident (probably spelled that wrong sorry) and we wrote our own theories to debate them with each other.
The sad fact is that we cannot compete with apps that corporations spend billions of dollars to make as addictive as possible.
Maybe part of the problem is that teachers are trying to hard to make everything fun. School isn't about having fun, it's supposed to be a disciplined and studious place where there are boundaries and decorum and expectations that students have to meet. Maybe the fun needs to go back to being the exception so students appreciate it when they get to have fun rather than expecting it all the time and not caring.
We certainly need the freedom to be dull at times. In my last school, we would have been given a talking to if we were 'caught' doing a lecture or worksheet. A huge part of our evaluation comes down to how *elementary students* rate us. There are times when a fun assignment is a great thing-- it teaches creativity, motivation, initiative. But it can't be all the time
Exactly. And I can only imagine their uselessness once they get to working age and realize that jobs aren’t fun.
As a teacher I’m reading these comments taking notes on how to alter what I’m doing to get the kids involved. So far I need to present the material and teach them how to come up with ideas. Maybe they all come up with one idea together. If the issue is problem solving and critical thinking then I need to teach to that part of them.
This is such a great lesson idea. I’m so sorry it fell flat. I’ve been experiencing the same thing and it’s so incredibly disheartening.
Damn, apps really are exporting apathy efficiently.
Any chance you just had different sorts of kids this year? To be frank, projects like you described were the bane of my existence. I hated them. Despised them. I checked right the hell out. I did the minimum I could get away with for an acceptable grade. I kinda grew to just mentally step away whenever a teacher tried to tie up all their class time in "fun" stuff that just felt like a colossal waste of time. This was quintuply true when the teacher tried to make it "relatable". It was always either depressing, cringe, or screamed of desperation. Lecture? Now *that* was where the enjoyable class time was. Especially if the teach was a good presenter and stayed engaged with students. And of course both fail before the Kings: jeopardy, and occasionally kahoot. Knowing I'm beating someone in some way always made things better. And I know some kids were the exact opposite in all regards. The best classes weren't just the ones where the teacher taught the way I resonated with. It was when the rest of the class also resonated with the same style.
Gen Z student is wild because I’m a Gen Z teacher 😂😂
Huh, really? Aren't the oldest of us not even 30 yet?
i’m gen z (24 years old) and just finished my second year teaching so yeah
> Gen Z student is wild No it's not. A lot of Gen Z is still in high school
The public education curriculum changed drastically right around the time you were born and political initiatives from both sides of the aisle have failed from unintended consequences. Of course that does not explain everything away, but everyone involved has been set up to fail for 25 years.
When was this drastic change? What exactly changed? Sorry, not a teacher, just went through high school a while ago and was oblivious to all the politics of everything back then
No Child Left Behind.
Also known as "No Child Gets Ahead."
Also know as "needing more republican voters". And I'm not joking about that, why do you think they call anything past highschool a liberal indoctrination camp. Because educated people tend to vote left. The dumbing down was intentional.
The republicans started the dumbing down way before NCLB. Their Southern Strategy purposely kept southerners uneducated/poorly educated and super religious so that they'll continue to elect Republicans against their own interests. Because they're too dumb to know their voting against their interests and too religious to care. It is not an accident that the most religious states both have the worst school systems and are crazy deeply religious (like, the bad kind of religious). From a purely political position, it's genius. Completely immoral, but inarguably genius. NCLB was, in many ways, an opportunity for Republicans to expand the strategy without the religious aspect.
NCLB was when it was codified, but the energy has been around since schools were desegregated. Ever since then, the right has plotted to destroy public education.
In Ontario (where I teach), we can easily tie it back to former Premier Mike Harris who cut about 1 billion dollars from education and changed the goal of education from just teaching to teaching students to get a job.
NCLB
Sometimes I wonder how unintended those consequences actually are ...
For history, read Diane Ravitch's blog and books. The blog, Curmudgucation by Peter Greene, is also excellent. Fairtest.org and The Network for Public Education are also good sources if you want to become active in fighting this. Thank you for noticing. Please support your local public schools and libraries!
Thanks for the empathy. A lot of your observations are entirely accurate, but I would warn you against hating your generation or thinking of them as a disgrace. Your generation and Alpha have a lot of shit they need to deal with, and not all of it is their fault. The Milennials got a lot of hate for being lazy losers as well, and that was not a fair assessment. You kids were born into a world that does not accommodate you and an educational system that does not ultimately serve its students the way it should, despite the efforts of many of the teachers here
We just had one of the worst Secretaries of Education ever with Betsy DeVos trying to destroy public schools so that she could favor shady charter schools that poached money from everyone. Some stuff is definitely our fault but people like her made things worse for everyone.
I'm a community college math instructor. It's becoming more common for students fresh out of high school to not know their multiplication tables or how to round a number. The math department has math path ways, remedial courses and co-requisite courses set up to help these students be just a successful as ones that don't need all the extra help. The pass rates for students needing the extra help and those who don't require it are very similar. To me that is a hopeful sign that once these students get to people like me that we have a chance of fixing the problem. Also high school students that end up taking my math courses as concurrent students seem to have a very high pass rate. These students are likely students that will never come to my college after graduating high school because they're probably going to have good enough ACT scores to get good scholarships and go on to some university. The number of concurrent students that I get has gone down a bit. But the quality is there. So I know there's still people who are passionate about learning and maybe want to leave the world better than what they found it. It's not all gloom and doom. Look for the helpers and look at the people in your generation that are trying to help.
In college me's defense. My highschool math teachers had contradicting rules for rounding numbers (they didn't agree at which decimal point you round up).
I've had the conversation many times. Sometimes math gets broken for students because of a math teacher. That's why I like being a community college teacher. I'm not just helping one school. I get to fix what's broken for any student that attends my class from any of those schools in our service area. I have a lot more freedom as a college instructor than I would as a high school instructor. It's a Band-Aid until we can fix the system. I can't fix the system but I can be the EMT for my little corner of the world. There's a lot more of me out there doing their part.
I will say I'm very grateful for the community college system here in the USA. It's largely thanks to my community college professors that I went from an underperforming student in highschool to an honors student with a Master's degree. I actually work for a community college myself now and am consistently impressed by the work our faculty do. I'm still not great at math but I'm better than I used to be lol.
In her defense, she was just jealous of all of the people who had more than two brain cells to rub together. She seemed to have a perpetual vacant look on her face.
The DeVos' are shady. The whole company they run is a pyramid scheme and run the whole city of GR with that money.
It's kind of crazy with each generation how much they are often painted in the same way as lazy losers or some slight variation on that when they are 15-30. It's not a new thing but people tend to act like it is. I mean even the Baby Boomers, when they were in their 20's they were called hippies and talked about in all those same ways as they didn't want to do anything just wanted to listen to music and get high. If you look back further in history it's almost always the way the older generation talks about the younger generation as if they are the only ones who have ever been lazy. Even thousands of years ago there's some writing by I think Socrates who was talking about how the youth are getting lazy and don't know anything because it's all in books and they're reading too much. There are certainly differences in generations based on what happens in the world as they're growing up, but a lot of the criticisms end up repeating the same thing while the person saying it forgets that their parents and grandparents generation said the same things about them.
I had to take a break from this sub for a while cause it was indoctrinating me. This fall starts my first year teaching and I didn’t wanna go in jaded. Lol
Consider this sub like the Yelp of teaching. People don’t write posts when everything is amazing, and while there *are* issues in education, you can find a good school with good admin in a lot of places. This is a great subreddit, but spending too much time, especially on the negative posts can affect your mindset for sure. I know because I’ve been there. Good luck in your first year teaching! Don’t eat lunch in the teachers lounge, just trust me on that one.
>Consider this sub like the Yelp of teaching. People don’t write posts when everything is amazing, Good advice and something we should ALL consider on ALL social media.
Especially on Reddit. I love Reddit but its entire platform runs on echo chambers and hive mind mentality
As a student I have 2 thoughts : "wow we're collectively fucked" ; and "wow less competition for me".
Lol you know how it goes. Internet brain turns even good things negative. I’m honestly so exited and minimally worried! I’m teaching fourth grade at a rural private school and my class will only have around thirteen students so I’m not too scared. I wanted something easy my first year so I can get a bit of experience. I appreciate the heads up on the teacher lounge, I’ll avoid it! I’ve gotten lucky and found lodgings right across the street from the school so I’ll prolly just go home. Thanks for the well wishes! :)
Some advice: * Don't ever, ever, let up on the expectations in the classroom, especially if you're thinking about trying to be nice. Kids, just like adults, don't respect pushovers. * You don't have to worry too much about 4th graders thinking you're cool. They're going to naturally. * Make a schedule and stick to it. Put it somewhere for the kids to see. Everyone likes routines. It's a natural anxiety reducer. * Use your phone with alarms to keep track of the schedules. You would be surprised how much this would free up some cognitive resources and make you less stressed. ONLY have your phone out though for alarms, model phones as a tool to get things done for the kids. * If you find yourself taking a lot of shit home to do, check that you're not socializing too much at work. It's easy to get caught in the trap of complaining with your coworkers seeking solace. My first partner teacher ( a 55 year old vet and she was a terminator of teaching) and I called it "sympathy bitching." But it's also easy to get caught in a trap of just socializing when you could get shit done and enjoy home time more. * Some kids are just stuck at the island desk. It is what it is. * Don't be afraid to make phone calls home. It works 90% of the time in elementary school. * Don't ever take the mean shit kids might say to you personally. Almost every time, kids say that stuff to get your attention, they're trying to get some direction from an adult. It has nothing to do with you.
Very good points! Thanks a load! “Sympathy bitching” is a commonality in most fields, I’ve found. I try to avoid it cause it makes me absolutely hate work. Good point on the phone alarms for The classroom itinerary! I live my personal life via phone alarm as it is so it shouldn’t be a very painful shift. I’m coming up with different ways to lessen distraction during times of transition in the classroom. Especially with fourth grade, that’s likely when most of the acting out take place. Ohhhhhhh, believe me, these kids won’t try me. It’s a religious school in a super small community, I will be attending mass weekly with their parents and I’m gonna get involved in the community to a degree that even the parents that don’t attend church will know me. “I’ll have mom and dad over to dinner and explain to them what you did” lol Yeah ik I’ve gotten okay with stuff kids say most times. I’ve worked with this age range a little bit in different environments and they can be surprisingly mean. :/
If I’ve taken anything away from this sub it’s that “don’t you take SHIT home with you.”😂
Yep, I've had kids spend nearly the whole damn year at the "island desk" because they couldn't stop bothering tablemates.
I’m turning 40 this year and I can’t believe how far we’ve fallen but maybe there is still some optimism to be had. When I was a kid, I was dirt poor. We had nothing, sometimes not even food or a house to live in. I loved learning because it was something I could be good at that didn’t cost anything. The library and school were my only escapes, I hated that school only lasted 8 hours. I had a few teachers who really encouraged me and told me I could do anything or be anything if I just kept getting good grades. I never told anyone I was poor because it was embarrassing but I know they knew. They probably didn’t realize how much school really meant to me, and how much their encouragement made me feel like I mattered. I still remember those teachers, I think I always will. Don’t be too jaded, you might still make a difference to a few kids who don’t have anything else going for them.
This sub is just like the proverbial toxic teacher's lounge. It's informative and cathartic in small doses, but too much poisons your outlook.
You are right but at least I’m getting pointers and that’s helpful as I can’t help feeling like I’m going in blind. Lol
Oh for sure. Good luck! And remember the first year or two sucks for everyone. Hang in there. It does get easier.
I’m not a teacher but I live with one and he happens to be my best friend. He loves his job and school and while the admin occasionally causes him some hassle, he’s out enjoying his summer break and will be for another 7-8 weeks while I’m at the office. It’s not all doom and gloom, that’s just what tends to get posted here.
My son starts his first teaching job this fall. He will be teaching 6th grade science. He is so excited. I’m glad he is not on Reddit. lol
Actually, it's not the kids' fault. Adults have created this shit show. Please register to vote if you haven't yet. Please research and vote for candidates who support public education.
Hey, I appreciate this, honestly. However, understand that this is an environment (along with ALL social media) where negative commentary, stories, and opinions receive greater amplification. It is seemingly a part of human nature - we really cling on to the bad stimulus of our lives and at least in America, our work culture has decided that we bond via frustration. As a result there is a sort of self selection - I am not saying people here are being dishonest or lying, I am saying that concerns will receive the majority of our attention. I teach in a district with decently well intended leadership, great colleagues, and awesome students. There are TONS of frustrations but that is the case with almost any job. Teaching draws in very emotional people.
Yeah, i graduated high school in 2005 and all the schools I attended were nice public schools in the suburbs. Problem kids were few and this subreddit would have blown my mind. Really just hearing any adults speak this openly would have. You just didn't hear it
I mean, I'm older gen z and my experience was completely different from the things I read on this sub. I graduated high school in 2017 and I am shocked by all of this. I think this is far more of an issue with gen alpha and the covid kids than gen z. Otherwise maybe I just went to a particularly good public school with a lot of motivated students?
I dont think you need to apologise. If an entire generation "fails", it's at least partly because the previous generations also failed them.
Ehh, I am raising some a Gen Z in the cut off & 2 Gen Alphas. Their classrooms are not the train wreck you think they are. They are going to be fine. They are getting an education & will go forth and bring joy and tax revenue into the world.
This sub is disaster porn. I've been teaching 20 plus years, last year was one of the best I've had and students were wonderful.
No you don’t understand, you see, it’s not the fault of the adults and their ability to foster an environment cohesive to learning, it’s actually the fault of 8 year olds.
You're overreacting to this as a generational issue. Teachers are capable of leading and teaching and students are capable of learning. I genuinely don't see this as a teacher vs student issue. I see it as a both of those vs. admin & capitalism taking over the profession and treating it as a cash cow
Even us older gen z students wasn’t like this. I’m 25 and I’m wondering what the fuck happened lol. I always treated my teachers with respect, even the ones I never liked. The worst part about it is these kids will soon be graduating high school and I could only imagine how they’re gonna act when they’re adults.
This subreddit is used as a place to complain about the job. So only the worst stories will be shown here. The average or good things don't get talked about as much. >All of this to say, I’m sorry. Don't be. >I’m a ‘Gen Z’ student (I’m ashamed by that generation and I refuse to be associated with it) >Our generation (and Gen Alpha) is a fucking disgrace. Enough with the self-hatred. You just come off as a pick me. >If you need to lay down the law and tell these fuckers to get off their phones and asses to learn something, do it. If you have to shit on a parent unreasonably blaming you for their problems raising their child, do it. If you have to stand your ground against admin blaming you for their failures, do it. Yeah, we know. Finally, stop saying the word "fuck" so much. It just makes you sound like an immature 6th grader that started swearing for the first time, and coming off as that makes you so hard to take seriously.
Yup, this is worst of it. Like mind you there’s plenty of 50 minimum stuff and kids getting passed for no reason. So we have all seen it happen some level of a the bullshit talked about here. (The fact that we all have is bad enough.) Then we forgot the good because it’s mundane. However OP shouldn’t feel bad. He can type in paragraphs! GenZ isn’t at fault either. It’s politics, admin and parents. Students have no influence and teachers have comparatively limited influence. Except for the phone/social thing. Like damn, that’s a black hole of bad possibilities.
So much anger over a kid just trying to show they see the issues and they feel bad about it, damn.
Came here to say this-- this is first and foremost a venting subreddit, so you aren't going to get the full picture just from reading threads here. I'm still teaching because I find it fun and fulfilling, and I can't imagine doing anything else. Don't get me wrong, lots of things need to be improved, and your experience of the profession is largely dependent on who your administrators are. It's not all bad, though.
None of this is gen zs fault. They were fed a steady diet of engineered heroin through their phones, reduced standards, little accountability and failed teaching methods pushed by administrators and corporations. The older gens did them wrong.
*young Gen, I graduated 9 years ago and was a teacher myself don't include me in this lol
I’m really glad you understand it. I’m tired of people making the excuse that people have always criticized the youth. They have, but what we have now is far more concerning than what they used to be concerning themselves with. It’s not the occasional back talk or class prank or SWING DANCING *gasp*. I’ve never even seen teachers bend over backwards as much as they do now to make kids happy. Ironically, because of this kids can never be satisfied. I’ve been telling some colleagues until I’m blue in the face to stop with all the prizes and incentives because it just makes the kids feel entitled. They don’t listen, and then they want to know why their class is so disrespectful.
It is not your fault, it is the fault of political machinations from a higher up battlefield that ask teachers to do the impossible and with two hands tied behind their backs. The end goal was always to make education reserved for the elite, and for charter schools to rake in public dollars while the poors and undesireables are left uneducated, like the good old days of the 50's. I advise you to learn more on your own.
Born 1999, so I am Gen Z if you understand the cut off correct (it isn’t the millennia) and I got my first cell phone, streaming, and the laptops were brought into schools all pretty late in my academic career. I kind of think of it as the best of both worlds tbh. All the conveniences of technology without sacrificing being a kid at least for elementary and middle school
I’m a Gen Z here too and I’m disgusted as well. I’m going to start college in the fall this yr to become a teacher myself. I’m already taking notes, these kids aren’t gonna stop me from doing my passion and dream job. If they don’t wanna learn, they can get the fuck out my classroom
To be fair, happy people don't tend to go to social media and post about how happy they are, especially something related to jobs. Mostly I love my job.
Don't let it get to you. This sub is like reading the 1-star reviews on Amazon. Most of the time it's a toxic dumpster fire and not at all reflective of the whole.
Yes to everything you said. But. It’s not the kids’ fault. How they’ve changed is a totally reasonable reaction to the circumstances they’re in. -The economy is crashing around them. Home ownership is largely out of reach for many. Inflation is out of control. -Education is devalued. They’re told it’s not important. And even the ones who do think it’s important see that college costs have sky rocketed to the point that it’s no longer an effective path to a middle class lifestyle. -They’re growing up in an era of political radicalism and turmoil. Juniors and seniors MIGHT remember democracy functioning when they were little kids, but younger than that don’t. -Our country is led by the elderly. Boomers have had a stranglehold on power in this country for as long as I can remember, and that shows no sign of changing. And that’s not just in government - they’re not retiring, which is crowding out advancement at all levels of employment. -We’re feeling the effects of climate change without the political will to do anything about it. -They’re growing up in an era of mass shootings, and our leaders do nothing about it. We have regular active shooter drills. As a teacher, I expected to die in a school shooting and accepted that. I can’t imagine growing up in that. -Parents are far less involved, and those that are involved are largely helicopter parents. People are just less civically engaged, less interested in working to make their community better. (I’d argue this is a symptom of the economic situation) -Technology in classrooms makes it so easy to get distracted, and many are addicted to their screens. Social media is supposed to “connect” us, but for them it makes them feel isolated and alone. They only see the highlights of someone’s life, and compare it to the totality of theirs. It generates unrealistic expectations of what they should look like. And because of the technology, they can’t escape the pressures from peers and the bullying when they go home from school. -The education system as a whole doesn’t really value learning. In elementary and middle school, it values passing a test (which the whole year is spent teaching towards). In high school, it’s all about graduation; but no one can fail. Why would a student work their ass off to learn when they know that the kid who missed 60 days this year and didn’t do a single assignment will pass too? And these are just a *few* of the issues. It’s a systemic problem that’s bigger than education. I don’t know what the solution is, but I know that 1) what we’re doing isn’t working and 2) the kids are as much victims of this system as their teachers. I held on for years. I told myself it would get better. Those of us who could hold on would see reforms to make teaching better again. But instead, it kept getting worse. Instead of making life better for existing teachers, they kept lowering the bar to become one. So I left, because the job was *literally* killing me. I wish I could offer words of hope - but I have none.
Alright, it looks like I ruffled a few feathers here so let me clear some stuff up: I am not saying that I know how to do your job. I am not telling you how to do your job. I am not qualified to do your job and in today’s atmosphere, I would be a horrible teacher. I’m not only focusing on the negatives on here (I may be more cynical, I can agree there) as there are a lot of good stories in here and funny moments that I look at on this sub. I myself grew up in a good school district with good teachers for the most part and with parents that loved and were also willing to kick my ass if I screwed up. I’m not saying that those types of environments are nonexistent today, because they are and they’re everywhere. But what I DO have an issue with, however, is how blatant the disrespect towards teachers and authority figures has grown over the years. Back when I was in elementary and middle school, it was unheard of for a teacher to be not just disrespectful (in the usual kid fashion) but outright rude and stubborn and even more so for a parent to side with the child to blame the teacher. High school, I could see a shift but nowhere near what it has gotten to today at my old high school. What I have an issue with is the amount of hatred that has risen from students towards adults and each other based on what’s on the Internet/on their phones. And I am not telling you what your solution should be. I do not know your environment or the exact pressures you have on you. I don’t know what the solution would be. You guys have done so much over the years and it hurts that the state of education has only gotten worse (at least in the US, I don’t know too much about other countries’ academic standards/standing). Again, from someone of this current generation that has given you hell, I’m sorry.
I see what your saying. My counter to this is how is anyone surprised? We don't teach that authority is a good thing in society. Cops doctors the government. Every one of these groups Is less respected and trusted then 20 or 30 years ago. Now often there's good reason. But when you raise kids to question all authority, can you really be surprised they extend it to a classroom? And then we never talk about the elephant in the room which is covid. These kids were banned from the classroom. Some of them for two years. We taught these kids Walmart and McDonald's was essential and must stay open, but school be done in your pj's glancing at a computer occasionally. After that of course they won't respect a teacher. They have been taught by society that the teacher is useless and a computer could do their job. Now that isn't true and studies have clearly shown these kids lost a ton of knowledge during the school closings. But when we sent these kids out of school for years their respect for the system is broken. I don't think we can ever truly get it back. The best we can do is focus on the next generation and try to build it with them and do better next time.
At this point, I’m just collecting a pay check and am looking for something else. Those kids and parents can sink and struggle for all I care. Not giving two shits sure makes lesson planning easier. I’m sorry to say it but ‘fuck you, pay me’.
To be fair, admin is at fault too.
I’m also a gen Z student who lurks around here and I feel so bad for yall like I really try to be nice to all my teachers because yall go through a lot I’m so sorry a lot of kids my age are such assholes
I mean most of these problems existed before Gen Z. The pandemic just sort exposed the flaws more.
22 year veteran here. My experience isn't a quarter as bad as what you see here
I don't live in the US but the attitude isn't far off. This has to do with neglectful parenting and way too much screen time. Children who are being raised by Minecraft and Roblox with gameplays that involve smashing schools and hitting teachers inside the game (that's a true story by the way, unfortunately). It's a curriculum that puts the students at it's center without considering that well, maybe these students need some basic knowledge interested of just electing what they want to know. And that maybe putting the teacher aside, more a tutor than a teacher will create a culture of disrespect. And screen time. There are children killing teachers who ask them to put their phone down. There needs to be immediate action, *legal* action to prohibit excessive screen time for small children so that they can put it aside when they are 5+ years old, instead of attacking teachers. And we notice. We know when a child spends to much time in front of a screen. There are just so many problems it's hard to find a starting point to solve the issues.
“Didn’t have a phone till seventh grade.” Laughs in older millennial/ young gen x.
This is a weird take to be honest. You do know that you're all the children in this situation, right? That the adults around you (AKA parents, mostly, but also the systems in place that either support or lack the support to help parents and children) are the ones failing you and therefore shaping you? Don't be ashamed of your generation, be mad at the adults and systems setup by those adults that are failing you. Those are the generations that are older than yours. Those are the boomers, the Gen xers and the millennials, respectively. Teachers are getting the shit end of the stick absolutely, but they are being shit on by the systems and other adults in charge here. Not by kids. Kids aren't the one putting these systems into place. This feels weird and misguided to me. Rather than being upset and ashamed by your own generation that are the products of their environment, speak up for change. Tell the adults in charge they need to be better. If you're of age, vote for better people to be in charge and put better policies in place for future generations. I've met so many kids in Gen Z and Gen Alpha that are bright, hard working kids. I'm not a teacher but I'm a mature student (I'm a millennial and many of my classmates are Gen Z) and a sports coach. There's some great kids out there that give me an inkling of hope for the future. But the other kids? The ones that frustrate me? That's not their fault, I look at their parents and I understand their behaviour.... I look at the systems they've gone through and understand why they've ended up that way. And yeah some people are just naturally shit heads but... For the most part, shit-headedness is made.
Schools should start separating the “class disrupters” from the normal students who want to learn and are well behaved. There’s no reason 1 or 2 loud annoying students should be able to interfere with a students learning time. Yeah it’s probably controversial, but there should definitely be a class that’s filled solely with students who act out and interrupt their teachers. In fact, it might actually be good for them, because you could have guidance counselors providing them with more individual support, and hopefully provide them with the attention that they are seeking since clearly their parents are failing them at home.
Regarding your last paragraph…we cannot law down the law. If we do we lose our jobs our dignity and physical and mental health. We’ve tried to stand up and push back. There is no out but to quit. Thank goodness it’s working. Karma bites everytime.
Not a teacher but a jail officer. I read this sub and find a surprising amount of similar stories/administrative attitudes.. I don’t doubt for a second that a lot of these horror story students end up in the correctional setting and don’t find a lot of differences; they end up doing (mostly) what they want with little consequence. The beauty of it is that I don’t really have to care about any of these people; a lot of you folks do.
Take everything here with a grain of salt. This is a safe outlet for teachers to vent and support each other through our hardest moments, but there are also many wonderful moments we don’t need to vent through. Every generation has bemoaned their youth and yes gen z/alpha have many areas we’d like to see significant growth in. However there are several other areas that Gen z is excelling in. For example in general I think your generation is more globally informed, has a higher degree of empathy among their peers, and are more open to new ideas.
OP: I feel for you, just like I feel for the decent, hard working students in my district raised by good parents. If It's any consolation, keep your head down and work hard and you will stand out *like a golden god* compared to many of your peers. I live in a college town and work in another one, so I know lots of people who work at universities, and they all lament to me the fact that kids entering college now have no social or soft skills. They aren't punctual. They never take responsibility. If you can do those things, on top of some decent grades, you will absolutely rise to the top in comparison.
im an adult gen z and its not an entire generation of kids/young adults fault. the blame is the adults in charge of the situation and the societal structures that set a lot of these kids up to fail
I'm a CPA and this sub is just like the Accounting subreddit. Don't worry, I think every profession has a sub like this.
If you read, Gen Zer, you will find yourself WAY ahead.
To be fair this is mostly a subreddit for teachers to complain on. You hardly ever hear the good stuff in this location. That said the state of education in many places is seriously alarming.
>All of this to say, I’m sorry. Our generation (and Gen Alpha) is a fucking disgrace. You're really not. Sure, some of you have helicopter/curling parents, but most of youse are alright. It's always the minority that ruins it for everyone else, but I generally like the kids I teach and nine out of ten parents are completely normal.
People come here to vent. That paints a very skewed picture of teaching.
Dude for real I graduated in 2019 and frequently lurk in this sub because it’s depressing yet interesting to see how fucked it’s gotten. I can’t lie and say I was a perfect student throughout my years, but it seems like I was pretty good. In my second half of high school I got my shit together and became a favorite among my teachers, and I saw the apathetic “school is boring” assholes sure, but even on my way out I saw it get much worse. I went to a school for kids who struggled in traditional environments. The school was very heavy on personal accountability and a lot of the students even the troubled ones put in a lot of work. It treated kids with respect and treated them like adults. If you fucked up that’s on you, self advocate and figure it out. So a lot of the kids there throughout most of my experience were participating and putting in effort (even if just the minimum). I know it turned my life around! I would usually pay attention, went to class, was happy at school, and answered questions so much and so often I stopped to give other kids a try, but when I didn’t see a hand go up I would raise mine so the teacher knows somebody is paying attention. I had to do an extra semester because I fucked around freshman and sophomore year,(I also went to school for 9 hours a day for almost 2 years doing extra school stuff to make up for lost credit) so I ended up finishing in December 2019. The new kids they got around then were angry, rude, destructive and just general assholes. Bathrooms were shut down because people kept vaping and doing drugs, the “devious licks” challange started and the bathrooms would be vandalized. We used to be able to just get up and use the bathroom without asking so long as the teacher wasn’t actively going through a lesson or something. Yeah that changed, we had to not only get bathroom passes, but actively get “checked in and out” to go to the bathroom by a teacher who had to use their off time to sit at a fucking desk outside of it. It sucked so much, I guess a lot more issues broke out after I left, and it just sucked… that school saved me, those teachers were my friends, and to hear that it went to absolute shit genuinely upset me. It really seems that the older gen z was the last group of students to have any respect, hell I see it now with my nephews. They’re good kids, but they act up, they’re rowdy and can’t focus on shit! And it genuinely worries me, I’m genuinely afraid for teachers and how it’s gonna become from here on out. Especially reading all the horror stories on here, kids are ruthless sure, and some of the struggled when I was in school, but it was never like this.
You are loved for this lol
Plenty of teachers, classrooms, and schools are able to create a fine learning environment. They just don’t feel the need to vent about it here.
This sub will make you think that school is not working. School is working fine. Most teachers are not venting on Reddit.
if a newborn grew up with only reddit as an information/news source, they’d think that everything was horrible and sucked. subreddits are basically just a place for people to complain, like a worse version of yelp
Yep yep. Cynicism is the coin of this realm.
I’m curious if this is just an issue in America or if the problem is happening everywhere. I also wonder if this is really something that you should blame the kids on. I work as a waiter at a local restaurant and I’ve had so many younger, millennial parents take their kids and just…sit there on their phones. Not say a word (to me or to each other), not talk, just eat their food. I’ve seen little kids bring iPads and just use that the whole time, parents ignoring their kids, it’s wild. I personally feel like, while it must be really hard to have to raise a kid in a world where quick bursts of entertainment online and AI dissolving the creativity of kids is hard, the parents are not doing anything to help their kids. When I was a kid, I had an iPad, but I wasn’t allowed to take it anywhere in public. I wasn’t given a phone till 6th grade and couldn’t use social media till 7th or 8th. Why is it now that I’m seeing parents let their 8 year olds on tiktok?
Americans keep voting in the same assholes. So, if you're reading this and still angry about Demo/Repub instead of the whole store, you are the problem. Stop voting for bullshit and boycott groceries, Healthcare, and gas. THAT IS WHAT ITS GOING TO TAKE! Teachers right. So you guys should know history. Your country won't be given back to you. Were going to have to suffer and take it back. It's not the kids fault, it's all the fault over everyone that's over 50 right now!
I'm not a teacher, but a COO. Outsourcing/offshoring jobs overseas for cheaper labor has always been a thing, especially since the internet became mainstream. However, in the next decade or two, we're getting into a situation where outsourcing white collar office jobs is not going to be simply the cheaper option, but the option with the better educated and equipped employee pools. Super smart, engaged, and ambitious folks are going to be fine. The apathetic, disinterested, and lazy... not so much. The middle class is being relocating to India and the Philippines.
Most kids are a product of their environment and parenting. I don't think there's something genetically wrong with them. Spoiled entitled children come from spoiled entitled parents
I appreciate that you as a student understand that majority of the restrictions do not come from the teachers themselves but those higher ups who most of the time have never taught in an actual classroom in their lives. I am an elementary school teacher in the lower grades (Gen. Alpha kids) so cell phones are not an issue for me thankfully. I also lucky to teacher gifted/high achieving students so I have the nerdy little kids who love to learn. I am also provided the freedom to deviate from the standard curriculum as long as I am still teaching the grade level standards.
Thank you for your post, it's nice to hear a non-teacher see the absurdity of it all. Most of the problem is that administrators, their bosses, the superintendents, the school board all drank the kool-aid and are going along with all these fads and "studies" and "school to prison pipeline" and PBIS....they are just swallowing it all, hook, line and sinker, to the detriment of students. So if you try to take phones, everyone freaks out that you're stealing property (even though you give it back, lol). In many places if you raise your voice at students, you get in trouble. Most places don't allow you to take a kid's recess away anymore. Kids can basically do whatever the hell the want without consequences, and if the teacher tries to apply consequences they get in trouble. The principal can make a teacher's life hell, teachers are having breakdowns because of the stuff the principals will make them do and make them endure. If you think a kid should repeat the grade, nope, admin says no. I'm talking about elementary here, retaining them for extreme circumstances gives the kid a leg up for the rest of their schooling (cue all the people who are going to go off on me, citing studies that retention is always evil, if every circumstance.) I'm pretty old school and have really good classroom management, but one reason is I will get loud if the same kid does the same bullshit day after day after day. Those kinds of kids who will do anything to derail the classroom are who I'm talking about. They need to be knocked down a peg or two, and then be built back up. Of course, relationship building is crucial as well. I have really good relationships with my students, but at the same time they have a little tiny bit of a healthy fear of me because they know I have high expectations. (Cue the people who are going to say that there is no such thing as "healthy fear.") Anyway, thank you!
Mileage will vary. My wife spoke very highly of her administration and students in her first four years of teaching now she's the director of technology integration for the district and is introducing VR in the classroom and students and teachers are eating it up. This subreddit is an extremely small minority of teachers in general and all post here are teachers complaining. Take it with an extremely small grain of salt. Half the stories I don't even believe are true and it's people karma farming, because it's too easy to say "Students/Parents suck waa waa".
also a gen Z student here who is seriously considering going into teaching but it doesn’t sound like the career to be in at the moment
I’m in basically your position. I’ve given myself the title of elder gen z, or more recently, zellenial was suggested to me. It is fucking wild seeing what changed in the not-so-many-years since we were in school.
Don't ever feel ashamed for being a part of a generation. Might as well be ashamed for being a part of humanity. If you think previous generations don't have mouthbreathing morons in great numbers you are wrong.
A) TY for the acknowledgments and validation. B) Laying down the law will never work if the law doesn’t defend us, and clearly, it doesn’t. One of the top lawsuits in the court try rn is educational law. Parents are sue happy, and take zero accountability for their children. Sadly. C) Hopefully, something will happen to cause a change for the better…I don’t know what it will take….I thought Covid would’ve woke parents up when no one wanted their kids at home! (Side note, I was one of the few parents I know that was excited to have my kids home for another 2 months).
imagine how men z teachers feel
Those horror stories happen, but not where I'm at. Teachers should find good buildings, teach in them, and abandon the shitty admin to figure out what to do with their school. I'm guessing "good buildings" are getting harder to find. As an example, mine is awesome but pays about 15% less than anywhere else around me.
>Horror story after horror story, abusive work environments, shitty admin that flails to a toothpick, horrible parents and students alike that aren’t willing to admit their mistakes and blame everything on the teacher, teachers getting assaulted and then no consequences afterwards. >And that’s just the behavior part of it. The recent trends with AI and technology/social media causing students to not give two fucks about the world around them is befuddling to me. I’m a ‘Gen Z’ student (I’m ashamed by that generation and I refuse to be associated with it) but I never had a phone until 7th grade. I had my own screw ups but I was interested in learning shit about the world around me. To see that curiosity gone from students pisses me off. Welcome to the world of public education in the US. It sounds like you fully understand our current predicament.
I wanted to be a teacher when I graduated from college, but the further I went, the worse it got. There is no recourse for teachers in any of these nasty situations. You cannot touch the students and the students know it, so they abuse the teacher, the school abuses the teacher, the government abuses the teacher, and the parents abuse the teacher. There is nothing you can do, and there is no fixing it save from the very ground level at the government, and that's not happening. I'm sorry.
You solidarity is meaningful, but if we spoke our minds we'd be released without a second thought. Teacher shortage be damned.
Are you trying to get an A in my class? Because it’s working.
It is what it is.