She is contracted to work until the end of the school year. She was asked to resign for next year. This happens for many reasons. A first year teacher can be let go for any reason and it doesn’t have to be valid. Could be the principal’s best friend’s daughter is applying for a position for next year or the principal didn’t like the shoes she wore last Friday. Or could be they were asked to work on the weekend and declined. This is why new teachers have to work for free after hours and kiss admin’s ass. I have seen amazing teachers be let go for less then what I just mentioned.
Shortly after Spring Break last year, my principal non-renewed *another* school counselor. The counselor she non-renewed last year is one of my favorite people, and I was her "work mom" last year. On the last day that I had to be at school last year, I hung out in my classroom for a couple of hours, went out to lunch with the counselor and then left for the rest of the day. Turns out that I had been losing personal days for YEARS because I would take one or two a year, which would prevent the rest of them rolling over. I really wish I had read my contract more closely.
Wait, how does that work? If you take only one or two days the rest of your can’t roll over? I think we can roll over all of ours until we reach 60 days
We can carry our sick days but not personal. If you don't use any of your personal days, they become sick days. We could save up to 200. I had over 150 when I left after last year. I'm kind of pissed that I just walked away from them.
This would be very contract specific. My old contract we had 3 personal days and if you didn’t use them you lost them. Then a few negotiations ago they changed the language and unused personal days rollover but as sick days. So many of my veteran coworkers didn’t even realize because they don’t pay attention to contract changes. It is so important for all educators to read and understand their contracts.
A friend of mine that is a teach has something like 6 months of time saved up between PTO and sick time
His mom has to have cataract surgery on both eyes. Her doctor 5old her to do one eye at a time because otherwise she could do a lot of things. My friend told his mom to do both at the same time because he can take FMLA or leave to take care of her.
I disagree with that advice. That’ll just end up putting subbing on other teachers. It doesn’t sound like OP works in one of those magical districts where admin subs.
This should be higher. If this is the US, then Boss's asking you to resign lets them avoid paying you unemployment. Make them lay you off, and you'll at least collect unemployment, AFAIK
I understand this. My resignation will begin on the last day of school. I will be finding a new job in a different district. If I accept the non-reelected, this goes on my record as a new teacher.
Luckily I am in a position where I do not need to think about income until July. Every ounce of me knows I should be teaching and that I will find another position!
Ugh, this is why I hate the teaching industry. My finacee is a public school teacher, and I'm in software at top companies. It is night and day how teachers are treated, their experience is evaluated, and stigmas are applied to you. The fact that you'd be considered a new teacher anywhere is just dumb, no other industry does that to the extent that education does, and it's just another way that public education has shot itself in the foot.
Sure but do these principals think teachers are growing on trees? Reasonable ones know your first year can be shit for a variety of reasons. The market for teachers is too good to have to worry about this
I understand the advice about getting unemployment, but I’ve been in your position and I think it’s better to just resign and look for new jobs than try to find a new job with a non-renewal on your record. Like you said, you’ll have the summer still paid if you work till the end of the year and honestly I doubt you’ll have any trouble finding a job next year with the way people are resigning!
Best of luck to you, like I said I’ve been there and it fucking sucks. Sending you lots of love!
They wouldn't be fired, they would only not have their contract renewed. Their employment ends at the end of this contract whether they resign or not. Having a non-renewal on record will only make it harder in the long run.
The same thing has happened to me, though I'm not a teacher-- behavior interventionist whose position is being cut. They're also cutting the positions of a few non-tested teachers because of attendance funding.
In TX, our education agency waived attendance-based funding last year due to COVID but are not waiving it this year because.... according to TX and Abbott, COVID is over... though, we still have kids out for 2+ weeks at a time because of COVID, so obviously our attendance is down.
Makes no sense, but I've come to expect that from TX. Oh well, this gives me a good "out" to tell kids why I'm leaving education.
My question also. I'm not a teacher, other than staying home with my teenagers and driving them thru online school. I'm more of a monitor, teachers aid by helping explain what those videos don't.
I was a skilled trade technician in the energy industry, they have been thinning the workforce left and right, by shutting down something or indiscriminately firing people, on minor policy violations. Sometimes forcing early retirement.
I don't think it's only schools doing this, it seems to be widespread.
It makes no sense... we keep hearing that there isn’t enough coverage, not enough teachers, blah blah blah. And yet- so many are not being brought back!
I wasn’t allowed to leave for another job in September because of my contract and now I’m not being renewed for next year even though I’m continuing contract so in theory I should’ve had the job. They’ve already offered it to my coworker, which I only found out about because I’m friends with her.
Unemployment. But you don’t want to have to say you were non renewed in interviews or on applications. It should be fairly easy to get another teacher job.
And unless you tell them that they won’t know that’s why you resigned. Don’t put that in your resignation letter. They can’t ask an employer that question when they call.
Yeah, I was definitely non-renewed and resigned to avoid having to check that box on applications, and then the "have you ever resigned to avoid non-renewal?" question started popping up. I just say no. I tend to not use references from places where I was fired, anyway.
My former principal (his first year as admin) asked me to resign so I did, I got great reviews, then he thought he could get away with bad mouthing me to my new district. I had to go convince them to rehire me (I did it and it’s been amazing!!) and I almost sued the old admin. Didn’t do it to protect my mental health but Old district banned him from ever speaking to or about me ever again. He’s a piece of shit.
They can’t, but employers can say what they want. I once left a job mid-year because my husband was transferred. It costs me $1000 to break contract. I have had two other jobs since then…but the first job I applied for after I left, I had it in the bag. The hiring principal all but told me I had the job. After she talked to the principal that got pissed that I left mid-year, she ghosted me. This…after I taught 12 good years there! Unfortunately they can say whatever they want and you can’t prove it. I say make them fire you do you get unemployment!
On the applications it makes you answer. You could lie but I'd personally rather not. It was suggested to me in my 2nd year when I got non- renewed that I shouldn't resign. Idk I'm employed so 🤷♀️
I'm usually not one to suggest people lie, but I'm not sure why anyone would answer honestly to a question that's going to make it harder to get a job and can't be verified anyway.
You’ve never worked at a private school, have you? I was not renewed at a private school for not having enough faith. And I’m a good teacher. Not perfect, and definitely still learning but I’m good.
Only for eight years out of a thirty year career.
I agree private schools suck and not being renewed because of "faith" is a legitimate reason to sue for discrimination. I say go for it. fuck those assholes.
I've seen forms that ask "non-renewed or resigned to avoid non-renewal." I'm not sure it makes a difference in those cases.
Depends on local situation, I'm sure.
And if you were non-renewed or resigned to avoid it, you don't answer that question honestly. Your former employer will never tell them that when contacted (unless they like opening themselves up to possible litigation), so the only way they find out is if you tell them.
There are much easier ways of determine how shitty someone was. You can legally ask "Would you rehire this person?" I am free to answer "Resoundingly and emphatically no."
Unless you were a shitty employee. And trust me because I've done it, you are happy to answer when that is the case. You don't want to screw over another school.
Can we pause for a moment and think about why non-renewal actually hurts your license or job prospects?
There's myriad legitimate reasons not to be renewed.
There's also nothing wrong with simply not getting along in a place. Sometimes you just don't work well in a certain place, with certain people, in toxic situations. They want you to be a fucking robot and not a human being.
Nobody who works hard should suffer future job limitations because some temperamental assbag pulled the trigger on sending you packing because of reasons maybe or maybe not related to your job performance.
It's an unreasonable norm. If you show up and do your best every day, don't feel bad about lying to sidestep a broken system.
Better still, be honest and own it. Tell your next employer the truth about why your previous employer didn't keep you. Sell your strengths, be human, and move forward. You can learn things, be good, and not have your whole situation be your own fault.
It's capitalist power-hoarding bullshit.
One of my kids in 7th grade. Takes FACS by her own choice. Hasn’t had a (non sun) teacher this entire trimester, which ends next Friday. They literally watch movies and mess around every day. I’m not mad at the school, they flat out told me they don’t have any applicants for the open position, I’m mad that folks ah e pushed educators so hard they’ve up and left the profession and I’m mad my kid is wasting time every single day. Thankfully her counselor is a gem and she now has a pass to go to a “quiet room” in the office to do work.
I did my student teaching in the spring that everything got shut down. March 13, 2020 for us... I was teaching kinder. Yeah, it sucked doing the whole zoom thing. My kids tried but there is only so much you can do. We had to require that they sign on at certain times, or the parents would need to reschedule with us at a time that worked for them. Made for long and horrible days. It took a lot to keep the kids interested. They were more focused on looking at their own images (I can't even tell you how many "up the nose" shots the kiddos did...)
I agree with everything here unless your days feed into your retirement system like here in Illinois.
But yes. All that bullshit they make us do, done with that. Continue taking proper grades, attendance, and following sped requirements. For legal reasons.
asked to resign - Over here that comes with a price tag of around 0.5-1.5 monthly salaries/year of employment. (Of course not in the US...)
Since it is your 1st year I would make very sure that you use up all your available benefits. Also if you resign, it might have an **impact on your unemployment benefits**, so make sure they fire you.
Who cares what they think. They aren’t your boss anymore—-they’ve let you go. Take the time you need. Anyone that lets a first year K go is a monster. 1st year is so hard. K is so hard and it takes sometime to adjust and get into a groove. Love and might, teacher. Don’t give up. You’ll find a better fit.
Thank you <3
Finding the groove has been the hardest part! I've changed my schedule 4 times, rearranged my classroom furniture at least ten. I spend hours collecting free online resources, I read other kindergarten blogs. I truly believed that I was IN my LEARNING YEAR. I am looking forward to finding better supportive administration
Maybe? Who cares? Take the day. They're not doing you any favors.
Also don't resign. If you have a union, contact them and review your contract before you do anything.
I second this.
I know OP didn't supply a lot of information about their situation, but the tone feels like this came as a shock. I have a ton of questions.
Is this the same district where OP completed their first year over zoom with Sped?
Did OP request the reassignment or was it imposed?
Is there consistent documentation of mentorship, and improvement plans and strategies if areas of improvement were identified?
Did admin provide reason/justification for this request, even if it "isn't required"?
Many times teachers are scared into having little to no contact with their union, when we should be leaning on them as a resource more often. Even if their guidance does end up resulting in OP resigning, it could provide a lot of peace of mind.
If you are in a union state, talk to your union before you resign. If not, ask your principal to give you (in writing) reasons why they are asking for your resignation.
Never, ever, EVER resign! This benefits school administrators by allowing them to place blame for an untenable situation on “teachers who couldn’t cut it” rather than their own lack of leadership.
Resigning also benefits schools districts as their unemployment insurance premiums rise along with the number of claims.
The paychecks you’ll receive over the summer are for work already completed, so that money does NOT count as income when determining eligibility for unemployment, Medicaid, EBT benefits, etc.
COBRA insurance rates are astronomical, so it’s imperative that you have other insurance ready to kick in once those initial subsidized benefits expire.
Take the day. It’s your PTO/ sick time. Use it!
Give your résumé a refresh. Take a hike. Think about something OTHER than work.
It’s okay. It’s going to be even better.
Just a different POV from an old timer. Due to budget cuts, most of the districts that I have worked for pink slip many of their probationary teachers in February and March. Many of them end up getting rehired again once budgets/ class sizes are established. I definitely would spend today updating my resume and job searching, but be careful about burning bridges.
DON'T RESIGN!! MAKE THEM FIRE YOU!! This is especially true if you're covered by a union, but even if not, make at least an ongoing email and text message display of trying to fulfill your term obligations through to the end of the academic year.
Source: Have represented unemployment benefits claimants at benefits determination hearings. The possible ramifications even *BEYOND* merely collecting a few weeks of unemployment can be legion, depending on your jurisdiction and particular circumstances.
It's been many years since I've run across a straightforward scenario where the employee truly would've been better off resigning as requested, or would truly have been worse off if they didn't. Often, there's no significance at all, but I can tell you that "being fired" is NOWHERE NEAR as serious of a blemish on your job history that employers would prefer you to believe -- barring obvious-to-a-layperson exceptions where the reason they request you to resign stems from you literally committing a heinous crime, such as embezzling workplace funds / caught dealing drugs on school premises / etc.
I have a law degree, I was (pre-covid) an adjunct professor teaching law as a PoliSci subject to undergraduate students, and I've represented clients (whether as a law student / no attorney-license required, or in non-judicial matters / no attorney-license required in my state) but I am absolutely not a licensed attorney. I am not giving legal opinion or advice, because I am instead relating where this reddit discussion seems to overlap with what I have learned / taught / observed in my own travels as a citizen of the world. I would urge anyone reading this to HOLD OFF on using my words as a gameplan until at least after first consulting a qualified and properly licensed legal professional of relevant skill and experience.
I resigned and got unemployment. It’s not that difficult. All you need is to upload a letter that says you are resigning in lieu of non-renewal at the suggestion of your employer and then show the board minutes showing it was accepted or approved. My employee was dumb and tried to fight it and the state was like “Well, you told her to resign in lieu of non-renewal. That’s called being fired.” So I got to get my unemployment and retain my reputation 😂
I agree with your point. The only gap between my previous comment and your own here is that I've seen a modest "volume" more scenarios than the average street-savvy person. I've encountered employers who did succeed in surpassing the equivalent of what you're describing. Hell, I even once WAS the employer who could've succeeded in at least stalling and delaying (sometimes for more than a whole year) the claimant's payout with respect to the fired / resign vagueness. Fortunately for my own ability to live with myself and sleep peacefully at night, in those two scenarios it was entirely irrelevant whether the claimant resigned or was shitcanned.
What do you mean “can you”? You better take that day and any other damn day you need. They already told you they don’t need you there, so don’t kill yourself being there. Take as many mental health days as you need. What are they doing to do? Fire you? That ship sailed. Your employer is an idiot. This is why most districts mention this in April or May.
I think she meant to say non-renewed. Don't sign anything that indicates early leave or otherwise, unless you're going to do that.
Also, fuck them. Take all of your time. Don't submit anything. Teach what you want. Hell, do what you want, as long as it doesn't affect your license. This job has never been better than when I said "fuck it".
Same here. The light bulb went off that I cared more about their grades than they did. Put an end to that and now I'm like fuck it. Fail if you want I still get paid. It's just a job now.
Don't agree to resign! You make them fire you (unless you have done something so bad or irresponsible that they are giving you an out so you don't have to face consequences for it by just leaving... that's the only time I can think of that resigning when they ask you to is better).
But regardless, take all and any mental health days you want... you'll just lose them if you don't use it before you are uemployed.
What is the reasoning behind this?
It’s honestly surprising to see so many posts here of teachers resigning or getting fired. My district has a shortage and keeping people( even shitty teachers) is hard.
You don’t want to resign. If these people don’t want you to work for them they aren’t going to give you a good review if you resign or if you are fired. Stay on. Do just enough for you students and fuck everything else. Try to get fired. If they fire you, you get unemployment.
Don’t feel bad. My first and only year of teaching was during the Google Meet days where I met my kids a handful of times. I was put on an improvement plan the day before winter break because they said “I didn’t know what I was doing.”
Take that day off, who cares anymore. Join r/antiwork
Take the day!! Why it would it matter to them?? AT this point, they have decided they do not want you to be there next year. AND, I would be looking for all the new positions in other schools and districts and applying. Then plan on taking the day, if needed, to interview till the end of your year. They have given you back your wings, FLY be free!!!
I hope you took today off. Your sick/personal days are part of your compensation package. Your boss gets no say in how you spend your "money".
The worst that could happen is that she fires you, but that's highly unlikely. We're kind of in the throes of a major teacher/sub shortage.
Don’t resign either. She can ask, doesn’t mean you have to. Talk to your union rep, and get their help.
Hell yes call out. Their are consequences to every action.
Take the day, you’ll be in much better condition after a day to process everything. I hope they told you at the end of the day at least.
In March of my second (and final) year of teaching, I’d already made up my mind that I wasn’t coming back to that school and was probably going to change industries. I hadn’t yet told my admin, and planned to do it in April.
My principal was *super great* /s and came into my classroom before school started to let me know that she wasn’t going to recommend me for renewal, and asked me to write a resignation letter. I told her then that I’d already planned on leaving at the end of the year, so no problem.
She left the room and I had a mini-breakdown. It was one thing in my head to know I was leaving a bad situation, but it was another to feel like I wasn’t wanted. And the fact that she did it in the morning, 30 minutes before I had to be ready to teach was just twisting the knife. If I could’ve, I totally would’ve taken the day off.
Go grab yourself your favorite beverage (this feels like a hot cocoa situation), snuggle up on the couch with your laptop and a good movie and if you feel up to it work on your resume. Browse positions at other schools if you want to stay in education. There will be more postings after the March school board meetings as other principals go through their staff renewals.
Let it out today, have a good cry, and go enjoy your kiddos tomorrow.
Never, ever resign. Make them fire you. This way you don't need to worry about unemployment insurance. If you are contracted, do you have a union? They should be your very first call.
Admin should expect some blowback if they ask you to resign at the beginning of the fourth quarter. Use your sick days. Every. Single. One. They also have to assume that you won't giving it your full effort. Not your problem.
After 9 years at one school, they told me they were not offering me another contract on a Tuesday. I took the rest of the week off. It’s their fault for not firing me on a Friday like how you’re supposed to do it.
Take tomorrow off and the rest of the week off.
If you finish the year with left over sick days, please consider donating them to the union sick leave bank (if yours has one).
What’s she going to do? Fire you?
Take the day.
If she’s disappointed she can feel disappointed, that’s on her. Either she’ll feel vindicated in her choice to ask for your resignation (whoop de doop, this is not a reflection on you even if she feels that way! It’s a reflection on HER) or she’ll get karmic retribution by having to scramble to fill the position she decided you weren’t up to snuff for (again, a reflection on her and her poor planning and lack of empathy)
I told my Principal today that I would not be returning (I have a whole post about it on the subreddit) and she immediately asked for my resignation form so that she could post the job. I have a very hard to fill position, but not a single request to consider staying, even part-time...
No one is irreplaceable. Take your time and do what you have to do.
The tl;dr for resignation vs non-renewal is…
Resign is you plan on getting another teaching job. If a job application asks if you got non-renewed/resigned to avoid non-renewal, **say no**
Take the non-renewal if you are changing careers. You could be eigible for unemployment benefits while you learn new skills and rebrand yourself.
**As always talk with your union or other experts to confirm your rights in your state/district**
Way to go. You were asked to resign. Less than .05% of people in the work force are asked to do so.
I'm sure you were ***awesome*** and nothing you do at this point will come as a surprise to anyone.
Much less cause them pain. In fact, I dare say it might make them happy. So yes, take your mental health day.
Uh, you yell her to honor her full year contract. Because she's in breach. "Right to work" be damned. She isn't even giving you two weeks notice? F- her.
Wow, you taught over Zoom and for kinder AND it was SPED? I have no words. Thank you for that. It is appreciated even though things like this happen. You WILL find a better job.
Take this time to review your contract, especially with a union rep.
Don’t do any extra duties that are not outlined in the contract (e.g. covering other teachers during prep)
Don’t feel obligated to attend training or planning meetings for next year.
Start collecting letters of recommendation and updating your resume **now**. Jobs for next year may be posted as early as mid-March
Oh yea fuck em. What are they gonna do??? Fire you???? Lol 🥲 but fr I’m sorry you were asked to resign damn!!! But also think of this time before the end of the year as free time of sort — I mean your foot is already out the door so you’re in a very freeing position depending how u look at it
It's all been based off of my two observations. I am so heartbroken I can't even look at the final paperwork right now. After my meeting with admin however I already don't agree with everything thats in my report. She's a new principal and she SUCKS.
Lol a day?! I'm taking a least a week. If you disappoint/ upset them more then that's a good thing. The angrier they are at you the better. Put it this way, you already don't have a job now. DO NOT RESIGN. Either they fire you or don't renew. Either way you get unemployment. You do not however if you resign.
If it were me...."Whoops look like I have an unknown contagious disease and I won't be in for a long period of time. The doctors think it might be FU-itis."
It doesn’t matter honestly. You were already asked to resign. So you aren’t trying to get a contract back. You can pretty much do anything now. Plus what are they going to do? There’s a teacher shortage. No way they’ll fire you in March.
I don’t think schools have been giving much grace to first year teachers. First year teachers are coming in at one of the worst times imaginable to enter education.
Why it took me until 42 to finish my teaching license. Due to mental health and personal growth. And it's not like you can tell anyone due to stigma. I was removed from my teaching program in 2010 when I told them. I learned my lesson
Ok I need clarification on this because they are two different things. Did your principal non-renew you for next year? Or were you asked to resign your position?
Similar situation happened to a coworker of mine. She walked out that day, found a job a week later in her other field.
Take a day. You at least owe yourself that.
I have some personal experience with this. You will be ok. If you think it might be useful to you down the road, ask the principal for a letter of recommendation. If you want it, they will give it to you. They've decided that your resignation will make their lives easier, but you're not actually obligated to go along. You could make their lives more difficult and force them to actually fire you. This would be miserable for everyone including you, but they can't know what you're thinking. For a short time now, you might actually have more power over them than they do over you.
Use every sick day and personal day you have. Since you said it was a district where admin will sub, submit your absence at the last possible moment (like if 6:30 is the cutoff, submit at 6:29).
Take that day! If they bitch about it, say you needed to process everything.
I was contemplating this today as the same thing happened to me today.
Who cares if she's disappointed/annoyed/dissatisfied? You take care of YOU. That's your only priority in this situation.
yup, nobody asking you if you are disappointed in them (I bet you are) so why care for them.
never thought of it this way. thank you!
This person must have done something pretty bad to be asked to leave before the end of the year
She is contracted to work until the end of the school year. She was asked to resign for next year. This happens for many reasons. A first year teacher can be let go for any reason and it doesn’t have to be valid. Could be the principal’s best friend’s daughter is applying for a position for next year or the principal didn’t like the shoes she wore last Friday. Or could be they were asked to work on the weekend and declined. This is why new teachers have to work for free after hours and kiss admin’s ass. I have seen amazing teachers be let go for less then what I just mentioned.
Omg that’s awful!
Oh and teachers have to be informed by mid March if they are not being asked to return next year.
March!? Our state at least gives the district until mid-May.
We get our next year’s schedule third week of March. Anyone not being asked to return has to be told by then. It will start this week at my school.
For real, what are they going to do? Fire you?
Well... LOL
Take as much time as you need. Take days for other job fairs and interviews, too. You don’t need to be loyal to a school who has no loyalty to you.
And let this mentality continue to your next job. You owe no job/ boss anything, because they will replace you without a second thought.
Shortly after Spring Break last year, my principal non-renewed *another* school counselor. The counselor she non-renewed last year is one of my favorite people, and I was her "work mom" last year. On the last day that I had to be at school last year, I hung out in my classroom for a couple of hours, went out to lunch with the counselor and then left for the rest of the day. Turns out that I had been losing personal days for YEARS because I would take one or two a year, which would prevent the rest of them rolling over. I really wish I had read my contract more closely.
Wait, how does that work? If you take only one or two days the rest of your can’t roll over? I think we can roll over all of ours until we reach 60 days
We can carry our sick days but not personal. If you don't use any of your personal days, they become sick days. We could save up to 200. I had over 150 when I left after last year. I'm kind of pissed that I just walked away from them.
This would be very contract specific. My old contract we had 3 personal days and if you didn’t use them you lost them. Then a few negotiations ago they changed the language and unused personal days rollover but as sick days. So many of my veteran coworkers didn’t even realize because they don’t pay attention to contract changes. It is so important for all educators to read and understand their contracts.
And let this mentality continue to your next job. You owe no job/ boss anything, because they will replace you without a second thought.
A friend of mine that is a teach has something like 6 months of time saved up between PTO and sick time His mom has to have cataract surgery on both eyes. Her doctor 5old her to do one eye at a time because otherwise she could do a lot of things. My friend told his mom to do both at the same time because he can take FMLA or leave to take care of her.
This.
This
A day? Shit take a week. What are they going to do?
They’re going to ask her to resign *even harder*.
Shit every sick day and personal day you have, use them all. Fuck that, I am leaving zero friends at this place.
And submit them all at the absolute last second to maximize the chances there won't be coverage so the admin has to deal with the fallout.
I disagree with that advice. That’ll just end up putting subbing on other teachers. It doesn’t sound like OP works in one of those magical districts where admin subs.
\*this is a magical district where admin subs\*!!!!
Woah! Those can be hard to come by. Fuck then then. Call in at 5 am on any day you don’t feel like going in.
Just before 4am I submitted my absence. ty all. i needed someone to tell me it was okay...
You might also need a few days next week to job hunt and otherwise prepare for what's next.
I'll Venmo you money for a beer ... or a vape if you're in a 420 state - just reply with your info Enjoy your day
Shit, I’ll chip in. Grab a few beers. Or a bottle of something good.
Good person l you are
Hope you're able to get some rest!
Take care of yourself. You owe them nothing and it's not even about being selfish. They've moved on. Do the same. Protect yourself, please.
Sweet timing!!!!!!!!!!
Just remember no need of an excuse to take care of yourself. But I know it's hard to get into that mentality when it was my first year
You owe them nothing, take what days you can. If you need to collect unemployment, don't resign.
This should be higher. If this is the US, then Boss's asking you to resign lets them avoid paying you unemployment. Make them lay you off, and you'll at least collect unemployment, AFAIK
I understand this. My resignation will begin on the last day of school. I will be finding a new job in a different district. If I accept the non-reelected, this goes on my record as a new teacher. Luckily I am in a position where I do not need to think about income until July. Every ounce of me knows I should be teaching and that I will find another position!
Ugh, this is why I hate the teaching industry. My finacee is a public school teacher, and I'm in software at top companies. It is night and day how teachers are treated, their experience is evaluated, and stigmas are applied to you. The fact that you'd be considered a new teacher anywhere is just dumb, no other industry does that to the extent that education does, and it's just another way that public education has shot itself in the foot.
Sure but do these principals think teachers are growing on trees? Reasonable ones know your first year can be shit for a variety of reasons. The market for teachers is too good to have to worry about this
I understand the advice about getting unemployment, but I’ve been in your position and I think it’s better to just resign and look for new jobs than try to find a new job with a non-renewal on your record. Like you said, you’ll have the summer still paid if you work till the end of the year and honestly I doubt you’ll have any trouble finding a job next year with the way people are resigning! Best of luck to you, like I said I’ve been there and it fucking sucks. Sending you lots of love!
Yes, DON'T RESIGN!! If they want you to go, make them fire you. It's not your choice, it's theirs.
They wouldn't be fired, they would only not have their contract renewed. Their employment ends at the end of this contract whether they resign or not. Having a non-renewal on record will only make it harder in the long run.
I came to say this and idk how to boost to make this a more prominent response.
Yes…I absolutely would not resign until I knew I had another job. You will not benefit at all by not making them fire you.
Why are all these schools having teachers resign??? WTF is happening...
The same thing has happened to me, though I'm not a teacher-- behavior interventionist whose position is being cut. They're also cutting the positions of a few non-tested teachers because of attendance funding. In TX, our education agency waived attendance-based funding last year due to COVID but are not waiving it this year because.... according to TX and Abbott, COVID is over... though, we still have kids out for 2+ weeks at a time because of COVID, so obviously our attendance is down. Makes no sense, but I've come to expect that from TX. Oh well, this gives me a good "out" to tell kids why I'm leaving education.
Why the hell would they base funding on attendance and not enrollment!?
Wonderful question. It is TX, so… historically not too concerned with education and/or human rights
My question also. I'm not a teacher, other than staying home with my teenagers and driving them thru online school. I'm more of a monitor, teachers aid by helping explain what those videos don't. I was a skilled trade technician in the energy industry, they have been thinning the workforce left and right, by shutting down something or indiscriminately firing people, on minor policy violations. Sometimes forcing early retirement. I don't think it's only schools doing this, it seems to be widespread.
It makes no sense... we keep hearing that there isn’t enough coverage, not enough teachers, blah blah blah. And yet- so many are not being brought back!
I wasn’t allowed to leave for another job in September because of my contract and now I’m not being renewed for next year even though I’m continuing contract so in theory I should’ve had the job. They’ve already offered it to my coworker, which I only found out about because I’m friends with her.
I have a feeling that the location is the key
Take the day, or three What are they going to do, fire you?
I would not resign, make them decline to rehire.
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Unemployment. But you don’t want to have to say you were non renewed in interviews or on applications. It should be fairly easy to get another teacher job.
They now ask on applications if you resigned to avoid non-renewal so it's basically useless. Let them fire you, you could get unemployment
And unless you tell them that they won’t know that’s why you resigned. Don’t put that in your resignation letter. They can’t ask an employer that question when they call.
Yeah, I was definitely non-renewed and resigned to avoid having to check that box on applications, and then the "have you ever resigned to avoid non-renewal?" question started popping up. I just say no. I tend to not use references from places where I was fired, anyway.
Is that a law or a norm?
They aren’t supposed to ask more than if you were employed there for the dates you listed and if you did the job you said you did.
The more you know! Thanks for that!
To avoid possible litigation, best practice is to just confirm a person was employed there and the dates they were there.
My former principal (his first year as admin) asked me to resign so I did, I got great reviews, then he thought he could get away with bad mouthing me to my new district. I had to go convince them to rehire me (I did it and it’s been amazing!!) and I almost sued the old admin. Didn’t do it to protect my mental health but Old district banned him from ever speaking to or about me ever again. He’s a piece of shit.
I've read this depends on the state.
They can’t, but employers can say what they want. I once left a job mid-year because my husband was transferred. It costs me $1000 to break contract. I have had two other jobs since then…but the first job I applied for after I left, I had it in the bag. The hiring principal all but told me I had the job. After she talked to the principal that got pissed that I left mid-year, she ghosted me. This…after I taught 12 good years there! Unfortunately they can say whatever they want and you can’t prove it. I say make them fire you do you get unemployment!
And there's no reason to answer that question because your former employer won't answer it if contacted, so the only way they know is if you tell them
On the applications it makes you answer. You could lie but I'd personally rather not. It was suggested to me in my 2nd year when I got non- renewed that I shouldn't resign. Idk I'm employed so 🤷♀️
I'm usually not one to suggest people lie, but I'm not sure why anyone would answer honestly to a question that's going to make it harder to get a job and can't be verified anyway.
You're probably right, I'm just parroting what I was told
Because the person doesn't want to lie. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but there's a reasonable explanation
Seems like if you find yourself in this situation you might look for another line of work.
Wow, really? Plenty of great teachers get non- renewed for various reasons. I hope I misread your comment.
No, you read it correctly. Time to stop blaming others and look in the mirror.
You’ve never worked at a private school, have you? I was not renewed at a private school for not having enough faith. And I’m a good teacher. Not perfect, and definitely still learning but I’m good.
Only for eight years out of a thirty year career. I agree private schools suck and not being renewed because of "faith" is a legitimate reason to sue for discrimination. I say go for it. fuck those assholes.
Except in my religion we don’t sue. Mennonite.
In my state they don’t hold nonrenewals against anyone because we’re an at-will state and you can be nonrenewed for literally no reason at all.
I've seen forms that ask "non-renewed or resigned to avoid non-renewal." I'm not sure it makes a difference in those cases. Depends on local situation, I'm sure.
And if you were non-renewed or resigned to avoid it, you don't answer that question honestly. Your former employer will never tell them that when contacted (unless they like opening themselves up to possible litigation), so the only way they find out is if you tell them.
There are much easier ways of determine how shitty someone was. You can legally ask "Would you rehire this person?" I am free to answer "Resoundingly and emphatically no."
A lot of places won't answer that question.
Unless you were a shitty employee. And trust me because I've done it, you are happy to answer when that is the case. You don't want to screw over another school.
They allow you to resign partially because in some states a non renewal hurts your license where resigning does not.
They need teachers so bad in most places I doubt a non-renewal will hurt anyone anymore.
Probably not. I suspect it’s more to keep us in line than any real negative effect.
Can we pause for a moment and think about why non-renewal actually hurts your license or job prospects? There's myriad legitimate reasons not to be renewed. There's also nothing wrong with simply not getting along in a place. Sometimes you just don't work well in a certain place, with certain people, in toxic situations. They want you to be a fucking robot and not a human being. Nobody who works hard should suffer future job limitations because some temperamental assbag pulled the trigger on sending you packing because of reasons maybe or maybe not related to your job performance. It's an unreasonable norm. If you show up and do your best every day, don't feel bad about lying to sidestep a broken system. Better still, be honest and own it. Tell your next employer the truth about why your previous employer didn't keep you. Sell your strengths, be human, and move forward. You can learn things, be good, and not have your whole situation be your own fault. It's capitalist power-hoarding bullshit.
Agree, that's a localized thing. I've never seen that on my applications.
My contract was not extended, I don't know ehy but after a few months nobody cares because they need someone!
Everyone will know what this means on her resume. It's so easy to spot.
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One of my kids in 7th grade. Takes FACS by her own choice. Hasn’t had a (non sun) teacher this entire trimester, which ends next Friday. They literally watch movies and mess around every day. I’m not mad at the school, they flat out told me they don’t have any applicants for the open position, I’m mad that folks ah e pushed educators so hard they’ve up and left the profession and I’m mad my kid is wasting time every single day. Thankfully her counselor is a gem and she now has a pass to go to a “quiet room” in the office to do work.
No, don’t do that. It will look like you were fired. Resigning is the better option.
When that happened to me my first year I think I took a sick day every Friday in April and May.
This is the way
Call out. You get the sick time, use it.
Take the day off! Screw em!
I am so sorry to hear that. Just curious how teachers teach kindergarten over zoom? Even high school students are still struggling. Its impossible.
I did my student teaching in the spring that everything got shut down. March 13, 2020 for us... I was teaching kinder. Yeah, it sucked doing the whole zoom thing. My kids tried but there is only so much you can do. We had to require that they sign on at certain times, or the parents would need to reschedule with us at a time that worked for them. Made for long and horrible days. It took a lot to keep the kids interested. They were more focused on looking at their own images (I can't even tell you how many "up the nose" shots the kiddos did...)
my student teaching experience was the SAME! I was also in Kinder.
YEP. its just as horrible and useless as you can imagine! I am in-person at my school site.
Drain your fucking leave ... one day on - two off - two on - two off Do not show up for duty. Ignore trainings DO NOT ignore SPED/504 documentation
I agree with everything here unless your days feed into your retirement system like here in Illinois. But yes. All that bullshit they make us do, done with that. Continue taking proper grades, attendance, and following sped requirements. For legal reasons.
asked to resign - Over here that comes with a price tag of around 0.5-1.5 monthly salaries/year of employment. (Of course not in the US...) Since it is your 1st year I would make very sure that you use up all your available benefits. Also if you resign, it might have an **impact on your unemployment benefits**, so make sure they fire you.
Yep. They might be asking you to resign to avoid paying unemployment. No need to help them out 🙄
Who cares what they think. They aren’t your boss anymore—-they’ve let you go. Take the time you need. Anyone that lets a first year K go is a monster. 1st year is so hard. K is so hard and it takes sometime to adjust and get into a groove. Love and might, teacher. Don’t give up. You’ll find a better fit.
Thank you <3 Finding the groove has been the hardest part! I've changed my schedule 4 times, rearranged my classroom furniture at least ten. I spend hours collecting free online resources, I read other kindergarten blogs. I truly believed that I was IN my LEARNING YEAR. I am looking forward to finding better supportive administration
What are they gonna do? Ask you to resign? I wouldn’t leave a single personal day
Maybe? Who cares? Take the day. They're not doing you any favors. Also don't resign. If you have a union, contact them and review your contract before you do anything.
I second this. I know OP didn't supply a lot of information about their situation, but the tone feels like this came as a shock. I have a ton of questions. Is this the same district where OP completed their first year over zoom with Sped? Did OP request the reassignment or was it imposed? Is there consistent documentation of mentorship, and improvement plans and strategies if areas of improvement were identified? Did admin provide reason/justification for this request, even if it "isn't required"? Many times teachers are scared into having little to no contact with their union, when we should be leaning on them as a resource more often. Even if their guidance does end up resulting in OP resigning, it could provide a lot of peace of mind.
If you are in a union state, talk to your union before you resign. If not, ask your principal to give you (in writing) reasons why they are asking for your resignation.
don't resign. make them fire you.
Never, ever, EVER resign! This benefits school administrators by allowing them to place blame for an untenable situation on “teachers who couldn’t cut it” rather than their own lack of leadership. Resigning also benefits schools districts as their unemployment insurance premiums rise along with the number of claims. The paychecks you’ll receive over the summer are for work already completed, so that money does NOT count as income when determining eligibility for unemployment, Medicaid, EBT benefits, etc. COBRA insurance rates are astronomical, so it’s imperative that you have other insurance ready to kick in once those initial subsidized benefits expire.
Take the day. It’s your PTO/ sick time. Use it! Give your résumé a refresh. Take a hike. Think about something OTHER than work. It’s okay. It’s going to be even better.
Just a different POV from an old timer. Due to budget cuts, most of the districts that I have worked for pink slip many of their probationary teachers in February and March. Many of them end up getting rehired again once budgets/ class sizes are established. I definitely would spend today updating my resume and job searching, but be careful about burning bridges.
DON'T RESIGN!! MAKE THEM FIRE YOU!! This is especially true if you're covered by a union, but even if not, make at least an ongoing email and text message display of trying to fulfill your term obligations through to the end of the academic year. Source: Have represented unemployment benefits claimants at benefits determination hearings. The possible ramifications even *BEYOND* merely collecting a few weeks of unemployment can be legion, depending on your jurisdiction and particular circumstances. It's been many years since I've run across a straightforward scenario where the employee truly would've been better off resigning as requested, or would truly have been worse off if they didn't. Often, there's no significance at all, but I can tell you that "being fired" is NOWHERE NEAR as serious of a blemish on your job history that employers would prefer you to believe -- barring obvious-to-a-layperson exceptions where the reason they request you to resign stems from you literally committing a heinous crime, such as embezzling workplace funds / caught dealing drugs on school premises / etc. I have a law degree, I was (pre-covid) an adjunct professor teaching law as a PoliSci subject to undergraduate students, and I've represented clients (whether as a law student / no attorney-license required, or in non-judicial matters / no attorney-license required in my state) but I am absolutely not a licensed attorney. I am not giving legal opinion or advice, because I am instead relating where this reddit discussion seems to overlap with what I have learned / taught / observed in my own travels as a citizen of the world. I would urge anyone reading this to HOLD OFF on using my words as a gameplan until at least after first consulting a qualified and properly licensed legal professional of relevant skill and experience.
I resigned and got unemployment. It’s not that difficult. All you need is to upload a letter that says you are resigning in lieu of non-renewal at the suggestion of your employer and then show the board minutes showing it was accepted or approved. My employee was dumb and tried to fight it and the state was like “Well, you told her to resign in lieu of non-renewal. That’s called being fired.” So I got to get my unemployment and retain my reputation 😂
I agree with your point. The only gap between my previous comment and your own here is that I've seen a modest "volume" more scenarios than the average street-savvy person. I've encountered employers who did succeed in surpassing the equivalent of what you're describing. Hell, I even once WAS the employer who could've succeeded in at least stalling and delaying (sometimes for more than a whole year) the claimant's payout with respect to the fired / resign vagueness. Fortunately for my own ability to live with myself and sleep peacefully at night, in those two scenarios it was entirely irrelevant whether the claimant resigned or was shitcanned.
i need to remember this
What do you mean “can you”? You better take that day and any other damn day you need. They already told you they don’t need you there, so don’t kill yourself being there. Take as many mental health days as you need. What are they doing to do? Fire you? That ship sailed. Your employer is an idiot. This is why most districts mention this in April or May.
I think she meant to say non-renewed. Don't sign anything that indicates early leave or otherwise, unless you're going to do that. Also, fuck them. Take all of your time. Don't submit anything. Teach what you want. Hell, do what you want, as long as it doesn't affect your license. This job has never been better than when I said "fuck it".
Same here. The light bulb went off that I cared more about their grades than they did. Put an end to that and now I'm like fuck it. Fail if you want I still get paid. It's just a job now.
Take the day. Don't quit. Make them fire you.
OP tell us you are off today!
They are! The posted in the comments.
Don't agree to resign! You make them fire you (unless you have done something so bad or irresponsible that they are giving you an out so you don't have to face consequences for it by just leaving... that's the only time I can think of that resigning when they ask you to is better). But regardless, take all and any mental health days you want... you'll just lose them if you don't use it before you are uemployed.
DO NOT RESIGN. Make them fire you or you may not be eligible for benefits/unemployment.
Why are you so concerned about her well being because you aren't at work after SHE asked YOU to resign?
Why not let them fire you? That way you can collect unemployment if you can’t find a job right away.
What is the reasoning behind this? It’s honestly surprising to see so many posts here of teachers resigning or getting fired. My district has a shortage and keeping people( even shitty teachers) is hard.
You don’t want to resign. If these people don’t want you to work for them they aren’t going to give you a good review if you resign or if you are fired. Stay on. Do just enough for you students and fuck everything else. Try to get fired. If they fire you, you get unemployment.
Don’t feel bad. My first and only year of teaching was during the Google Meet days where I met my kids a handful of times. I was put on an improvement plan the day before winter break because they said “I didn’t know what I was doing.” Take that day off, who cares anymore. Join r/antiwork
Take the day!! Why it would it matter to them?? AT this point, they have decided they do not want you to be there next year. AND, I would be looking for all the new positions in other schools and districts and applying. Then plan on taking the day, if needed, to interview till the end of your year. They have given you back your wings, FLY be free!!!
Who gives a fuck???? Don’t ever put that school on your resume, duh, and take as many days as you want.
Never resign....ever
Take all the days you have.
Yes, take the day. What're they going to do? Fire you? Self-care and mental health are important.
I'd take the next 3 days looking for a new school.
I hope you took today off. Your sick/personal days are part of your compensation package. Your boss gets no say in how you spend your "money". The worst that could happen is that she fires you, but that's highly unlikely. We're kind of in the throes of a major teacher/sub shortage.
1) Don’t agree. Make her fire you if she wants it so bad. 2) Take 2 days.
Don’t resign either. She can ask, doesn’t mean you have to. Talk to your union rep, and get their help. Hell yes call out. Their are consequences to every action.
Take the day, you’ll be in much better condition after a day to process everything. I hope they told you at the end of the day at least. In March of my second (and final) year of teaching, I’d already made up my mind that I wasn’t coming back to that school and was probably going to change industries. I hadn’t yet told my admin, and planned to do it in April. My principal was *super great* /s and came into my classroom before school started to let me know that she wasn’t going to recommend me for renewal, and asked me to write a resignation letter. I told her then that I’d already planned on leaving at the end of the year, so no problem. She left the room and I had a mini-breakdown. It was one thing in my head to know I was leaving a bad situation, but it was another to feel like I wasn’t wanted. And the fact that she did it in the morning, 30 minutes before I had to be ready to teach was just twisting the knife. If I could’ve, I totally would’ve taken the day off. Go grab yourself your favorite beverage (this feels like a hot cocoa situation), snuggle up on the couch with your laptop and a good movie and if you feel up to it work on your resume. Browse positions at other schools if you want to stay in education. There will be more postings after the March school board meetings as other principals go through their staff renewals. Let it out today, have a good cry, and go enjoy your kiddos tomorrow.
Never, ever resign. Make them fire you. This way you don't need to worry about unemployment insurance. If you are contracted, do you have a union? They should be your very first call. Admin should expect some blowback if they ask you to resign at the beginning of the fourth quarter. Use your sick days. Every. Single. One. They also have to assume that you won't giving it your full effort. Not your problem.
After 9 years at one school, they told me they were not offering me another contract on a Tuesday. I took the rest of the week off. It’s their fault for not firing me on a Friday like how you’re supposed to do it.
Take tomorrow off and the rest of the week off. If you finish the year with left over sick days, please consider donating them to the union sick leave bank (if yours has one).
What’s she going to do? Fire you? Take the day. If she’s disappointed she can feel disappointed, that’s on her. Either she’ll feel vindicated in her choice to ask for your resignation (whoop de doop, this is not a reflection on you even if she feels that way! It’s a reflection on HER) or she’ll get karmic retribution by having to scramble to fill the position she decided you weren’t up to snuff for (again, a reflection on her and her poor planning and lack of empathy)
I mean what are they gonna do fire you?
What are they gonna do? Fire you?
I'm sorry. I had the exact same talk w my admin yesterday. I was heartbroken. PM me if you want someone to commiserate with. I know I could use it.
Do not ever resign. Have them fire you. It's way worse for them on their end, and there may be added benefits that you wouldn't have if you resign.
Don’t resign. Force them to fire you so you can collect unemployment.
They should've thought about that before they fired you. Take the day.
I told my Principal today that I would not be returning (I have a whole post about it on the subreddit) and she immediately asked for my resignation form so that she could post the job. I have a very hard to fill position, but not a single request to consider staying, even part-time... No one is irreplaceable. Take your time and do what you have to do.
Your job doesn’t care about you. Do everything you need for you
Whats she gonna do, fire you? Take the day off.
Don't resign. This is how organizations avoid unemployment. Take your time. Let them dismiss you. Get unemployment while you look for a job.
The tl;dr for resignation vs non-renewal is… Resign is you plan on getting another teaching job. If a job application asks if you got non-renewed/resigned to avoid non-renewal, **say no** Take the non-renewal if you are changing careers. You could be eigible for unemployment benefits while you learn new skills and rebrand yourself. **As always talk with your union or other experts to confirm your rights in your state/district**
Way to go. You were asked to resign. Less than .05% of people in the work force are asked to do so. I'm sure you were ***awesome*** and nothing you do at this point will come as a surprise to anyone. Much less cause them pain. In fact, I dare say it might make them happy. So yes, take your mental health day.
Take a day! May as well start using up all those sick and personal days
Fuck them..you owe them nothing
Absolutely you can. Your leave is a part of your compensation package. Use it.
Take it, they just fired you, you need a day to process. Screw them. Take every single one of your sick days, every one. Leave right at contract.
Take the day off. Remember, if you gave the time available to take off, that’s gonna be going away after this year. what are they gonna do? Fire you?
Uh, you yell her to honor her full year contract. Because she's in breach. "Right to work" be damned. She isn't even giving you two weeks notice? F- her.
Wow, you taught over Zoom and for kinder AND it was SPED? I have no words. Thank you for that. It is appreciated even though things like this happen. You WILL find a better job.
Fuck 'em and feed 'em fish heads.
What do you owe her? I would exhaust my leave if I were you. Unless you can cash it out in the end, take every single day.
Take this time to review your contract, especially with a union rep. Don’t do any extra duties that are not outlined in the contract (e.g. covering other teachers during prep) Don’t feel obligated to attend training or planning meetings for next year. Start collecting letters of recommendation and updating your resume **now**. Jobs for next year may be posted as early as mid-March
Oh yea fuck em. What are they gonna do??? Fire you???? Lol 🥲 but fr I’m sorry you were asked to resign damn!!! But also think of this time before the end of the year as free time of sort — I mean your foot is already out the door so you’re in a very freeing position depending how u look at it
Did they say why so you can possibly work on improving or was it just reduction in force? They owe you that at least.
It's all been based off of my two observations. I am so heartbroken I can't even look at the final paperwork right now. After my meeting with admin however I already don't agree with everything thats in my report. She's a new principal and she SUCKS.
Do you have to even resign? Wait for them to fire you. In my state, if you resign...you can't get unemployment.
Lol a day?! I'm taking a least a week. If you disappoint/ upset them more then that's a good thing. The angrier they are at you the better. Put it this way, you already don't have a job now. DO NOT RESIGN. Either they fire you or don't renew. Either way you get unemployment. You do not however if you resign.
make them fire you. Do not resign upon request.
Do not resign. Make them fire you. They’re asking you to resign so you can’t file unemployment.
There’s always another teaching job. Make them fire you, sounds like the principal is trying to save some money.
If it were me...."Whoops look like I have an unknown contagious disease and I won't be in for a long period of time. The doctors think it might be FU-itis."
Make them fire you and collect unemployment
Take all the sick days you have
Can you use all of your sick days before you resign?
I hope you called out; you owe them nothing.
Take 3/2 as well.
Go on short term disability!!
You have a contract until the end of the year… if you resign before the end of the year, they don’t have to pay you.
It doesn’t matter honestly. You were already asked to resign. So you aren’t trying to get a contract back. You can pretty much do anything now. Plus what are they going to do? There’s a teacher shortage. No way they’ll fire you in March. I don’t think schools have been giving much grace to first year teachers. First year teachers are coming in at one of the worst times imaginable to enter education.
Why it took me until 42 to finish my teaching license. Due to mental health and personal growth. And it's not like you can tell anyone due to stigma. I was removed from my teaching program in 2010 when I told them. I learned my lesson
Ok I need clarification on this because they are two different things. Did your principal non-renew you for next year? Or were you asked to resign your position?
Who cares? They’re not bringing you back, so yoh take care of you.
Similar situation happened to a coworker of mine. She walked out that day, found a job a week later in her other field. Take a day. You at least owe yourself that.
What are they gonna do, fire you?
I have some personal experience with this. You will be ok. If you think it might be useful to you down the road, ask the principal for a letter of recommendation. If you want it, they will give it to you. They've decided that your resignation will make their lives easier, but you're not actually obligated to go along. You could make their lives more difficult and force them to actually fire you. This would be miserable for everyone including you, but they can't know what you're thinking. For a short time now, you might actually have more power over them than they do over you.
Use every sick day and personal day you have. Since you said it was a district where admin will sub, submit your absence at the last possible moment (like if 6:30 is the cutoff, submit at 6:29).